The Ultimate Eastern Medicine Approach To Lyme, Epstein-Barr, Parasites, Viruses, Gut Issues & More With Dr. Chris Motley

My name is Ben Greenfield, and on this episode of the Ben Greenfield Life.

Podcast, people come in and say, hey, I had strep when I was a kid five times a year. And they said, well, I took an antibiotic and it went away sometimes. I was like, I hate to say this, but from the evidence I get, let's go get another test and I'll get deeper tests like from MicrogendX, and they'll still have like six or seven strands of strep still.

Wow.

And when they have it, their tonsils stay infected in their area behind their nose. I spend, I think, majority of half my patients clearing out old strep.

Fitness, nutrition, biohacking, longevity, life optimization, spirituality, and a whole lot more. Welcome to the Ben Greenfield Life Show. Are you ready to hack your life? Let's do this.

I just got done with a long walk outside with a real cool guy, Dr. Chris Motley. Chris is well versed in Eastern medicine.

He specializes in things like acupuncture, kinesiology, allergy and sensitivity therapy, Lyme, Epstein Barr.

Parasites, H. Pylori, salmonella, streptococcus. This dude is a wizard. He flew out to my house. We hung out for a couple of days. He's a real deal, practices what he preaches, incredibly knowledgeable, and you're just gonna love today's show. The show notes are gonna be rich and juicy. Check them all out at BenGreenfieldLife.com Motley and get ready for me and Chris going for a long walk. You're gonna love this one. Well, we've had a pretty good morning so far. Chris, you saw it all from the workout. You feeling okay?

Feeling pretty good. I can definitely feel that it's taking its effect though, brother.

Yeah, we did the. Did the usual morning at the Greenfield house. We did a little, little morning stretch and then some Bible reading and prayer. Then we moved into some breath work in the sauna using the the Other ship app. About 20 minutes of Wim Hof style breath work, cold plunge and some kettlebells, and a little metcon workout in the gym.

With, of course, the icing on the cake being the smoothie. Little raw liver, vanilla whey protein, some coconut water, some cow nibs goodies on top of that. So all charged up here for a little little walking podcast. Ready to go, Spokane. Yeah. So for those of you listening in, I'm gonna put all the show notes@bengreenfieldlife.com forward/motley. Chris's last name. M O T L E Y. Looks like we got somebody Carving up sticks with the chainsaw so you guys get to. Get to hear some of the action in the background. But we'll be past that pretty soon. So, Chris, I'm just curious, like, you know, you and I have connected a few times. We had dinner in Nashville. I think I remember you were taking my. My pulse at dinner to analyze my constitution or something like that. Maybe we'll get into that later on. But if I were sitting next to you on an airplane and, you know, didn't know that much about you, how would you describe what you do and what kind of doctor you actually are?

Well, first of all, thanks so much for having me, brother. I really appreciate being here and having the opportunity. And yes, when people come in, I always tell them, I am a chiropractic doctor, but specialized. Also got my doctorate specializing in clinical kinesiology, which is basically trying to use the muscle function of the body to assess what's going on internally. So I got my Diplomate in acupuncture. I'm certified in acupuncture, Chinese medicine.

So what's a diplomate?

Diplomate means you get as about as much hours in practice as somebody who would get a doctorate in acupuncture itself.

Okay.

So you do quite a bit of extra hours in training outside of your actual chiropractic kinesiology training. So I went down the route of Chinese medicine and Eastern medicine. And what do I normally do with patients that come in? How do I assess? Well, I would describe it as more based in frequency medicine or frequency therapy. So that's how I describe what I would do.

Frequency medicine. Interesting.

Usually, like, I know we've talked about it before, but I assess what acupuncture meridians are not flowing properly if they're blocked, and that's what most acupuncturists do. But I use biofeedback devices in the office to try my best to assess which frequency output may be coming from the blocked meridian. And there are ways to identify the frequency ranges of that blockage, which may give me a reference to what is blocking it.

Okay, man. Okay. A lot there. So I actually want to return. Return to that. But before we do, like, how did you actually get into this in the first place? Were you raised in a house that was in, like, alternative medicine or Chinese traditional medicine or something like that?

Two things. I won't make it too long, but I will say that it's okay.

We got time. Look at this long, empty road ahead of us, brother.

Well, my dad was really good friends with the chiropractor in his town and he was a drill sergeant. And my dad has bone on bone in the back, so he's gonna have back surgery.

Okay.

And so he got. He was prevented of having surgery by going to his friend. And I thought it was always unusual because he would always tell me his back was hurting. And one day he's like, no, I don't have to have back surgery. Found out it was a chiropractor, thought it was so interesting. And then my brother had bad allergies. He didn't have to get allergy shots anymore because he got his upper neck fixed by the same doctor. So I was introduced to it, and that always made me intrigue. Another thing that came into my mind was when I was younger, I thought I knew I wanted the route to help people and care for people. Don't know why, but I remember my mom, she's ha. She's Korean. I'm half Korean with Chinese background in her bloodline. And when I got into this type of work, she told me that my great uncles, some of my great uncles and distant uncles, lived in the hills of Korea and they did herbs and Chinese medicine.

Oh, wow.

And so I asked her, yeah, it was in my blood. I was like, I didn't know why. I could make my hands heat up when I was a kid. I can make them get hot when I wanted to. Oh, wow. And I always thought it was unusual. And she told me that they never really go see them up in the mountains because all the rest of the family thought they were kind of odd and unusual. So I never got to meet them. And that's how I got into. It's like my blood. And I think it was just a big interest, but.

Wow.

I've had personal experiences with frequency medicine that made me a believer too.

Like what?

When I, before I went to school, into actual chiropractic school, I got rear ended and to the point where you go to school, they gave you a clinician to keep working on you. And I'd get worked on, but my neck would always keep going out. And so I went to a friend of mine who did the type of work that I employ now, and he said, it's not really your neck. You really have a. You really have a sludgy gallbladder. Your gallbladder's sick. And I was like, I didn't know what he meant by that.

Kind of a weird.

It is, it is. It's like the. The gallbladder meridian in medicine, in Chinese medicine, runs down the side of the Neck, around your ear and down the side of the neck. So he said it's not stable because the muscles don't get enough electrical flow because the gallbladder is stagnant. So he worked on all the acupuncture meridian points. And I felt like after two days, brother, I went to rigor mortis. Like, my neck and my whole body felt kind of stiff but sore. But after that point, I didn't have to have my neck adjusted again. It stayed in place.

And why does it get stiff and sore?

Because all the electrical patterns in the body, there's a couple of things that electricity does. It helps your arteries flow. So electricity is actually helping your arteries pump. And it also helps the lymph move. So if you don't have enough electrical flow, they work hand in hand. Lymph, blood and electrical flow. And if they're stagnant in certain areas. Now that's another point of discussion. It will make the area stiff. The muscles won't contract properly.

Okay, interesting. But. But then when you get it adjusted, there's a period of stiffness afterwards that like the body getting used to the new.

The.

The new electrical flow or something like that.

Yes, because after a while, it's like waking up an area that's been dead for a while. And so whenever you start to put more electrical flow, the fascia usually has to unwind a bit. And if you got lymph that's blocked, you're going to put a lot of electricity into that lymph. It'll take it a few days just to get that thing pumping and pulling the more of the toxins out of the area.

Okay, interesting. All right, so back to this, you know, initial analysis. You know, let's say I were to walk into your office and you're going to start to investigate me as like a new patient. Fair. What's going on? You mentioned frequency testing. I think you mentioned biofeedback. And you mentioned kinesiology or muscle testing. Walk me through what, what a typical scenario would look like.

Definitely the first thing I would do is I would do like we call a pulse point, like we did before when I saw you. And I take small devices. One that I usually simply use is called a. A pulse point finder. But there are many devices I use to check certain points on the body. That gives me an idea of what the main organs are doing. So I use biofeedback devices that basically are point put on the point. It gives me an indication of how much electricity is flowing through the meridian, which tells me how big the.

Okay. This biofeedback device, this is literally picking up an electrical signal.

It is.

Okay.

And the thing about the extra steps I take, my mentor, Dr. Doughty, he made a small device, and it's basically called a resonator. It's nothing very special about the resonator, but it's made out of a material that's very static sensitive. So when I assess you, I use the small pointer. It's an electrical device, but then I use my own skin to touch each point. And at times, if the voltage or the static in your skin is blocked from a problem in that meridian point, it'll pass it to me. And so my skin texture changes in response to you. And on the small device, you can rub this device, and that little piece of basically material will pick up on the static change, and it'll cause my hand to stick on the material. So I become the grounding rod.

Yeah, I'm familiar with this. I've experienced this twice. I have a device back in the gym back home called the Newbie. My new fit. And it allows you to electrically map muscles that have poor electrical function or that are turned off, so to speak.

Yes.

And you can actually apply a glove to your hand with one electrode, and the other electrode is placed in an area of muscle tissue and actually feel through your hand when you get to sections that are putting off a different level of electricity.

Yes.

And then I also went down to the Bioenergetic Institute in Kentucky and another guy named Dr. Jeremy Stitch. I don't know if you've heard of him.

I've heard of him. Yeah.

He did a very similar electrical mapping on me, but he was using PEMF frequencies to actually treat the areas with PEMF through his hand as he was grounded as he worked on me. So it sounds to me like you're doing something kind of similar, but you're identifying almost like traditional acupuncture points or what do you call meridians?

Meridians that are blocked.

And you can actually feel that through your hand.

You can't feel it through the hand and the device. It didn't matter what radio really material that you're placing your hand on to use as a grounding rod. Like, that piece of material will tell me that if I hit. They call it a drag coefficient on the skin. If I hit that point, it'll actually cause my texture of skin to change.

Wow.

And when I find it, the next point would be, what does that tell me about the person? It could just say that the point's Blocked. Right, Right. But what does it say? Okay, well, it would tell me that the organ's blocked. That in itself, though, brother tells me that. That I know what symptomatology that person has just by which organ is imbalanced. From that point, the next step would be with the technique is to use what we call hand molding. And some people think it looks unusual, unorthodox. But the concept is that our bones are piezoelectric crystals. So our bones are basically conductors of frequency. Like when we do a yoga pose, why do we do it in a certain position? It's because we attract a certain frequency from the environment to help with nourishing the kidneys or nourishing the heart.

Okay.

You can put your hands in certain configurations, and that hand mode, antenna mode, will attract frequencies that may exist in that person to attach to the hand mode. So it actually uses your hand as an antenna. And when it amplifies the signal into my hand, my skin texture changes in response to you, and I can actually find out why that little point is basically blocked. So I find the point I can scan for. Hopefully, we find frequencies of yeast, mold, bacteria, viruses. And so it doesn't tell me this.

Is through your hands, not using, like.

A device through my hands. Yes. And so there's certain frequency ranges that my mentor started to calculate to find out. Okay, well, yeast exists from 400 nanometers to, like, 425.

Okay.

And so we can't say it is, you know, gospel truth that this is what's happening, but at least it gives me an idea, and then I send off for further testing, if that's what they need, like yeast testing or mold testing or parasite testing, why would you.

Use your hands instead of using a more precise tool like a biofeedback?

That is the question. That is a great question. In fact, that's what my mentor has been working on. Because when you talked about your friend grounding himself, the problem, us practitioners, is that I would rather seen in the future to have the device that's more precise in frequency ranges, because there's only so much a practitioner like myself could scan, because I can only scan a certain amount of frequencies to what I've experienced.

Right.

And so if you have a machine.

Because you felt certain conditions, but you haven't felt them all.

Exactly. If there's a thousand frequencies that deal with yeast, and I only have encountered 20 of them, I can only scan for 20 of them.

Yeah.

And so that's the. They say the problem, and when I don't ground out, like on a grounding pad, I become the grounding. It stays in my system. And so that's another issue when you.

Don'T wait, what do you mean it stays in your system? Like you'd get the same condition.

You can, you can actually resonate the reason that you'd feel, for instance, you.

Get the same condition or you get the effects.

The same effects.

That's right.

The effects are the symptomatology.

Like somebody's not going to pass a parasite onto you, but you'd feel some of the same energetic frequencies in your body.

Exactly. If you had, if they had cysts of like giard lamnia and for heaven's sake, if you had one in your body that was dormant and you started to resonate with that frequency, it'll send a little wake up call in your body and it'll start waking up other parasites. So like sometimes I've had patients come in and they'll have a chronic cough. And this happened to me our first year and I would be going home and driving and all of a sudden I start coughing and I'd be like, man, why am I coughing like this?

Weird.

And I kept having those things and it was debased upon. When I was scanning something, I would really scan for like, oh, here's a parasite in the gut. Next two days I start feeling it. And so I think my body toughened up over the years. And when I started really doing detox cleansing, I really help protect my body. But it is one of the questions, I agree with you. I think having those machines is the way of the future to be more precise, to find the exact location and to kill off the frequencies of the infections and the microbes by using the device.

How far out are we from those devices being available, like commercially available or available to physicians like you?

I think if all goes to plan, I think there's already many that I've seen that are overseas in Europe. I just got one of my patients went to Poland and she has a device that does the exact same things and they put probes like you've seen before, but they literally can take the frequency of that infection and invert it, make it the out of phase wave and we'll send it back into the patient. So they're already gotten the devices to kill them off.

Oh, so they'll detect the frequency, then send a frequency back.

They'll do that. And there's another device that I can't really talk too much about now, but my mentor is going to be involved with it. But There are devices like you had with your glove, right. That picks up on the drag coefficient.

Yeah.

Of. Of the skin, like you're feeling the pain nociceptors through the glove. Well, there's devices now that they'll be able to go over the skin, pick up on the drag coefficient. Or guys, if you guys listening, like the stickiness of the skin because of the texture change, because the electrical patterns. And it will pick up and make an algorithm to tell you what's going on and be able to send frequencies back in to clean up the infection.

Oh, my gosh, this is super interesting. So the analysis using these electrical frequencies, is that the only thing that you do? Are you looking at other things? Like are there other elements of your intake when you get a new patient or somebody's got a health issue?

Yes, when I look at the frequencies, you can't just stop there. So if you came in and I was picking up on different patterns of organs, that to me tells the story of the psychological arena of the patient, which makes me aware of how they'll cleanse the infection. So if you came in and you had kidney points that were blocked, and let's say the kidney points were resonating with creations of resonance with like parasites or yeast or mold, okay, we go and clean them out. But if I also found that the heart meridian was not working at 100%, it's the two combined. In Chinese medicine, the kidneys feed the heart. And so I can't go ahead and just say, oh, I'm going to kill off the yeast and mold and parasites in your kidney. I had to find out why your heart's fatigued as well. Because if you do it out of order, if you don't do something in the proper order, they'll have high amounts of hertz reactions. So I have to make basically a connection of the inner web of all the organs and determine from your symptomatology. Like you come and say, chris, I am urinating all the time. I have dark circles around my eyes. And you give me all the signs which refer to the kidney. I normally say, let's start with the kidney, but I have to make that determination. So there's a lot of things, especially organ imbalance, signs and symptoms from the organ imbalance and find out which one's priority.

How do you know which order to.

Go in that is? That's the clinician's expertise. But the system I use does have what we call a priority system. So the technique allows me to use the hand moaning, the antenna hand moaning. To find out which problem is priority. So I can lock them in, like, on a computer screen. And I could say, okay, like, there's three things here. Three acupuncture points. We call it pause, locking it into the system. And when you do that, you can use a hand mode to find out which one's priority. Over the years, you can tell. This is how you can tell. I can feel which point is the most blocked. Just from my hand. I can feel it. I know that's the priority. You don't necessarily need a hand mode as much anymore, But I've been able to, you know, over experience, you can just feel it.

When we were having dinner, you were. You just had your hand on my pulse, like, on my wrist. And I was kind of talking with people, not paying much attention. Then you think you leaned back and said something like, I was. I was good to go, or something like that. But were you actually using that technique, or was that something different, like a pulse check?

Yes, it's like you. It's a pulse check, but you intertwine. And after a while, like, I can feel with. And many of the practitioners out there can do this, so I'm not saying it's anything special, but they can already feel the amount of voltage that's built up in those points. But also using the hand modes to discern what was causing that organ to basically be imbalanced. But you have. You use so much good detox. Like, you're a pretty clean guy.

Yeah. You were jumping up and down on the trampoline with me this morning. I did do the trampoline. I do a lot of, like, a lymph tapping, kind of like a Peri Nichols big six. Oh, yeah, lymph tapping. You know, I Even once a week, I'll do a coffee enema and a deep sauna, Sweat. Even the breath work. You know, you get some amount of detoxification through breath.

Oh, yeah.

Sweat through stool. So, yeah, I try to stay somewhat clean, especially with all my travel and everything now. Didn't you yourself have a condition? I think it was Lyme.

I had Lyme disease, yes. And I had just very curious about.

Like, your approach to. To something like that, you know, like, what'd you do?

Lyme disease. I got it when I was, like, 13 or 14, and I didn't know it. I. 31 years of age. This is when I was a few years in practice. I almost passed out on a patient and through investigation, finally found out I had Lyme disease. Everybody's telling me I just had Adrenal stress. You may have thyroid issues. Found all the infections. My approach was, how'd you find them? We did. I did blood work with a lot of the blood work. Did not find it right, as much as I wish it had. It told me I had some infections, went the standard route of the normal Lyme testing. Nothing there. And then I went to a friend of mine who runs a big Lyme infection place in Wisconsin, and he did frequency tests. He goes, well, you don't have. You have adrenal stress. He says, but they won't find on blood work. He says, but you got heavy amounts of Lyme.

Wow.

So we did. You can do extra testing now through, like, Igenics Vibrant Wellness. There's ones that are more specific and you find the small microbes because there's like, you know, over 100 different types of obesia, probably more than that now. And they only test for, like, 10 different strands or species. So found that. And I was. I was about to quit practice. I couldn't hardly stand up, My legs were so weak. Basically, I started to use the herbals that I got from my friend Dr. Alan Lindsley, who you should meet. He's a really great guy. He'd create his own tinctures. Did those for almost a year and a half. Cleaned everything out. And then I really shorted up with methylation supplementation, which is liver methylation strategies off my genetics. So I use my genetics to find out why I could not absorb and assimilate vitamin B as you see. You talked about it.

Yeah.

Got those in accordance with my herbs, and I started to heal up.

And so it's kind of like an herbal antimicrobial type of protocol combined with methylation.

Yes. And the. The process, when we were going through it is I. In my own practice, I had to use, like, frequency message to find out the priority ways to, like, approach how to get rid of my online. Because everybody's so specific and so different, so I can't personally, like, use a lot of vitamin B at the very beginning. And then after about three months of doing methylation, my body picked up and started absorbing more. So, yes, that's exactly how I did it.

Interested? Did you work in much natural methylated vitamins from, like, organ meat extracts or anything like that?

Yes. Yeah, I really got more into organ extract meats because exactly, like we. I was trying to figure out how a person could get it naturally because you know as well as I do, each supplement line's so different. You can, you know, not everybody's Going to be able to assimilate one company to the other.

Yeah. Interesting. So is that the approach that you would currently use if someone came into your office and you found lime be similar to that?

Yes, I think as I gotten older in it I, I really am more prone if with the techniques I use is to find out the organ imbalances and the emotions that the person has and how they will actually get rid of the infection because psychological and emotional aspects determines how they will probably process it. When I do find it through frequency medicine, I do like to start treating it. But I would send them off to get a couple labs, different labs first to see which specific species I'm. I'm dealing with.

Okay, so you can actually identify the Lyme species you said you use like vibrant wellness or vibrant labs, Hygienics.

DNA connections with an X.

Okay. DNA connections is to see their methylation status.

Yes. And, but they also have a really good tick borne. So they do. And there's another, my friend, Dr. Jay Dunn, she has one called my happy genes. It's, it's a really neat name, but it has. She tests for over 500 different genes, tell you about how to detox properly.

Okay, I'll hunt down links to these for you guys listening in. I'll put a link to some of these panels in the show notes@bengreenfieldlife.com Motley Now, Lyme is one chronic health condition. There are others that I know. People wind up a lot of times turning to alternative practitioners like yourself for Epstein Barr. How similar is that to Lyme?

Epstein barr now has been associated with Lyme disease, but it's one of the infections now that we almost classify that if you have Lyme disease, you're going to find Epstein BARR Almost about 85 to 90% of the time I find somebody with Lyme, I'll find that they'll even have heavier sources of Epstein Barr in their body.

So what's the difference between Lyme and Epstein Barr?

Epstein Barr is a class, class four herpes virus, I believe. And it basically will incorporate into your cells, into your DNA and like one of your cells can make a million of theirs. So they replicate to the point and when they're in danger, they'll pop open the cell.

Be careful who you kiss.

I'm telling you with if you find people with cold sores or cankers, I'm not trying to sound negative, but you have to be careful. Yeah. If you think a person has cold sores all the time, they can do that. And in Fact, that's what they get, the chronic fatigue syndrome. So some people get Epstein Barr when they're young and get chronically fatigued. Maybe not through a tick bite. But then they may have a small Borrelia bacteria, Babesia parasite from a tick bite. And they'll grow because all their cells have been infected. If you think about it, somebody's been infected with EPSTEIN Barr for 10 years. Yeah. And one cell creates a million.

Yeah. They're overrun.

It's overrun.

I didn't realize that. That it kind of exponentially. Almost like multiplies.

Multiplies.

Interesting. So when you see that, what's your strategy for something like Epstein Barr?

Usually with Epstein Barr virus, I start with heavy herbals that are specifically for Epstein Barr. There's two that come into mind. I really like Chinese isotis are called woad. And I like Japanese knotweed. The reason being is because when it's so ingrained and so deep, it'll hide. And so in Chinese medicine, we use those two on a nice steady dose to start to accentuate, to pull the Epstein Barr virus out. Then whenever I start to see that, the numbers come up. Because I have worked on people with Epstein Barr for a year or two years. They'll still have igg markers because it's so deep in their cells.

Meaning their immune system is still reacting.

To the EB completely. And even if they're present, active forms don't seem like they're up. I still have to work on those hidden ones. So with Epstein Barr, it's getting them on a few herbs and use frequency medicine to find out which ones are specific for them. But then I have to go into the heavy hitters. I usually find enzymes that are taking off the viruses coating. And you have to do that in steady dosage and pulse them.

Is this like the same type of proteolytic enzymes. You might use to break down biofilm for parasites?

It's almost similar. Yeah. Like monolaric acid. And you can use those same types of enzymes. Yes. And once you get them broken open, then it's really a matter of mouse and cat and mouse. Because once you get a majority of Epstein Barr. Because most people say you can't get rid of it. The hardest part is because if tissue's infected and it's been stagnant in one area. You're constantly having to open up those areas. So I use the enzymes, I use herbs. But I'm with this. I always use methylation processes. Like I will use their DNA test, their genetic testing, and what I'm trying to do is get their vitamin D receptors to turn on their vitamin B processing liver, because if I get their mitochondria to absorb that vitamin D, they'll fight the virus itself. And I've seen great results doing that.

And the enzymes, by the way, those are those breaking down biofilm or doing something else. When it comes to EBVs, usually they'll.

Break down the biofilms that hold a lot of the bacteria and parasites that hold the ebv, because that's the problem.

Okay, so you're breaking down the biofilm, then using herbals like knotweed or woad, and then you're using methylation support along with DNA testing.

Yes.

Interesting. How about the herbs? Like, how do you know whether or not the herbs are good? Like, what's a quality source?

I like myself. I like Supreme Nutrition products there, and there's many good ones out there. So people listening. I like a lot of them. But Supreme Nutrition Products is. I know the. The. The owners, Dr. Lebowitz, Michael and Noah, and they really look for good sources, make sure there's no radiation or toxins or metals in them. And so when I go to the source, I've looked all over, and when I found their products, that was the products I stuck with. So how do I know which ones are the best? I do use frequency medicine, some muscle testing, but also in acupuncture, you can measure the voltage off somebody's skin when it's very blocked. Like, if somebody came in with Epstein Barr.

Yeah.

And their heart was really blocked, their kidneys really blocked. You can literally put. People might agree with this, like, who do standard muscle testing or electrical skin activity monitoring. But you can take the product and put it in the person's mouth, and that skin will just be smooth as silk. It'll be. It'll.

Interesting. Wow.

Yeah.

Is there. Is there a reason that that would happen? Just the taste of it or having it in the mouth?

They say that gustatory, like, smell and like. And even, like, when you go into the nerves around the facial nerve and the hypoglossal nerves around the mouth, they say that it's just the interaction of the frequency of the actual herb, even if it's still in the capsule, that changes the response in the nervous system. So it really is a matter of how is their nervous system responding to the frequency that they just put in their mouth? Because Chinese medicine doctors will tell you this. It is the herb, but it's the energy of the herb.

Yeah.

Usually, like, whenever we go to a restaurant, I Know you do the same, brother. Like you go into an area or go and you look at a, at a menu, you go, I can eat that. I can't eat that. But I would literally can get to a food and I can smell it and I'll go, I can't eat that. And I, I was reading a report about, they say gustatory, like olfactory senses, like, and gustatory response that your brain and your body already automatically knows which enzymes have to be produced by ingesting the food you, you just smelled. And so that's why you have that autonomic response to the actual food. And you go, oh, that's going to make me feel sick. Well, that's what happens to the skin. The skin will tense up and they call it a galvanic skin response. And so the skin will actually pucker when you look at a food or taste it. And your skin, your nervous system says, don't do that because it's like a lie detector test. You know, the galvanic scan, they'll tell you something and your skin just responds. So your skin is responding to the taste. So the gut instinct, don't do not ever. You know, ignore that.

Wow. Chalk one up for mindful eating and taking some out of the fridge or ordering at a restaurant, doing some, maybe some smelling and some praying and some feeling before you dive in. Probably chalk one down for fast food, huh? You just don't know.

We got this thing at our, at our office and it's got a meal, a McDonald's meal from 2016 and it hasn't broken down yet.

Oh, yeah, yeah. I, I don't know exactly how that works, but I've heard that before. I haven't tried that experiment myself. Yeah. So how about, how about another kind of stealth co infection you see a lot I mentioned earlier, parasites. What do you do about parasites? What's your approach to that?

I say parasites are some of the toughest. People will take a lot of parasites, you know, supplements. Number one thing I do that you just talked about is I assess for biofilms. I asked the patient if they had mucus in their bowel movements, if they've had foam, if they have random stabbing cramps. Yes, you clean up the, the parasites with wormwood, black walnut, bodanga, artemisia. You can use combinations, but you have to get the biofilms cleaned up and you have to break them open so you can actually find if there's hidden parasites. So I use those herbs I just mentioned, but I'll use different types of enzymes like Nattokinase, I'll use lumber kinase. I'll use different types of enzymes that will actually break it open to actually come out so I can kill them off even more.

So what do you think about that, that silkworm enzyme, the serrapeptase? The reason I ask is I have this company, Kion, we have one called Flex, that's for muscle soreness, you know, to break down fibrinogen and things like that. But it's got a lot of these, you know, serrapeptase, serrapeptidase, a lot of those type of enzymes in it.

It's perfect because serrapeptase, one of the things like when you say, like whenever you have plasmin or any type of plasminogen, you have those coagulation anticoagulation factors. Another thing is with the. It's perfect because we know that those blood fragments, if those blood parasites like babesia or malaria break open those red blood cells, they'll actually hold the parasites in those blood fragments. So using those things actually cleans up the arteries, but the blood cells that are deteriorated can actually act like a biofilm. So using like serrapeptase, therapeptase, different types of enzymes are, are pretty much the biggest thing I do for parasites. Breaking up old coagulated blood and breaking up pyofilms, then using anti parasitic herbs and then doing methylation with DNA testing.

Yeah. You know, when I got back from India a couple of months ago, I was doing six the key on Flex, morning, six evening, and then oil of oregano three times a day. Just because it's pretty tough to come back from a country like that and not have some kind of critter in your gut. And my gut was acting kind of funny and so. So that's what I did. I felt fine after that. You know, it wasn't as advanced as some of the herbals that you use, but oregano is pretty decent for parasites, isn't it?

It is, it is. I love oregano. It's probably one of the strongest. You know, it's like some people, like I always tell people, be careful in oregano. It's so strong.

My mom burnt her mouth. She actually grabbed the 100%. I was in the pantry and you know, obviously I use like an eight to one dilution and man. Yeah, she had a burn for weeks.

Eight to one?

Yeah. Yeah. Even eight to one's pretty strong.

Oh yeah.

I put a whole dropper full in a glass of water. I don't put it straight into my mouth.

Oh man.

But what are, what are some other conditions that you tend to regularly see or treat these days?

Well, I would say those are some of the top. I'll see Lyme parasites and Epstein Barr virus. Another one that I'll say that's a hidden epidemic to me is I see tons of hidden strep, especially kids. Oh yes, strep. When they have the, the evidence and the, the spread of pandas or pans, where they have like the, the toxicities and neurotoxicities from hidden strep and staph.

And what's pandas?

Pandas is where the toxicity from strep has gotten into the brain and caused severe inflammation in the brain.

So it's like streptococcus in your neural tissue.

Exactly. So if you got strep PY genes, mutans, you know, if you had midas or even agalacti, like if you have those strep strands in your body, most time we think they're gone because people come in and say, hey, I had strep when I was a kid five times a year. And they said, well, I took an antibiotic and it went away. Sometimes I was like, I hate to say this, but from the evidence I get, let's go get another test and I'll get deeper tests like from micro gen dx and they'll still have like six or seven strands of strep still.

Wow.

And when they have it, their tonsils stay infected in their, in the area behind their nose, their adenoids. And so that's one of the biggest things I had to fix, especially kids with eczema or the bumps around their ears or they have the swollen lymph nodes in their armpits and adults too.

I spent I think, majority of half my patients clearing out ultra wow.

What's the test you said you do.

For that micro gen DX with a GX dx and what they do, it's in Texas and they don't just test for like five different strips, they test for like 50, 000 different microbe strains.

Wow.

And so I had a patient, guys in, in Las Vegas, and she was telling me all her stuff on a virtual call and I said, you've got a kidney infection. She goes, no, no. The doctor said, I didn't have it. I said, I'm telling you where everything you're telling me have it. She sent it to micro gendx. She had seven different strands. She had five different strep and two different types of E. Coli.

Geez. How do you clean something like that up. Strep.

Strep is really, like. If you use different. I like. I mean, there's three herbs. I say if you guys are listening, three herbs. Morinda, which is noni.

Okay.

Malia, which is neem.

Oh, noni. I got. I got a bunch of noni honey from Kauai Pharmacy in the pantry.

It's so good. Neem.

Yep.

Or coptis. Chinese cop.

Noni. Neem. That's N E, M, right?

Yep.

Or coptis.

It's Chinese golden thread. And those will kill off strep. But for a little kid, though, if you're. If they're pretty sensitive, go with Chinese skull cap. Skull cap will clean that off.

Okay, got it. What about besides strep? What else do you see?

The next biggest one would be the hidden infections of the stomach, which is H. Pylori and salmonella. And as common as people may think that sounds, people have hidden H. Pylori and salmonella and sometimes E. Coli to the point where they create biofilms. They create a ton of biofilms.

And most people that have indigestion, gerd, heartburn that will stick around and cause hiatal hernia, diaphragm issues. So people start having heart issues because the infections make its way into the heart and into the lung tissue. That's. Those are. That's the next biggest one. And I will say I'll throw this one in there too. But one of the biggest is not just classifying one, but herpes viruses. Herpes simplex, human herpes virus one and two.

And that's different than the Epstein Barr.

Epstein Barr is a form of herpes virus, but these other viruses, like cytomegalovirus or roseola virus. You ever seen kids with the red cheeks? You know, slap cheek? You ask those patients if even when they're a kid, they had that. It's like, yeah, and those infections get within the gums, they get in the teeth, they get in the roots along with the infections. But I spent a lot of time as well cleaning just herpes viruses out.

Interesting. Back to the gut stuff. You said H. Pylori. What was the other one?

Streptococcus, salmonella.

Salmonella, yeah.

And some E. Coli. Yeah.

What do you do about those type of issues in the gut?

Usually I use mastic gum.

Oh, yeah?

Aloe vera.

Yeah, I've got some mastic gum. I chew sometimes.

Oh, yeah.

I learned about it from Dean Carnazes. The ultra runner used it to keep his mouth salivated and his appetite satiated during Long runs. I didn't find out later the effects that it has on H Pyloric.

Oh it's, it'll. It'll help clean up. And you got to break up the film with the mastic gum.

Not really the gum, more like the capsules or a supplement. But yeah, oh yeah.

I mean with those. I always say like B vitamin absorption is going to be at an all time low. So some people want to say like take B1 and certain types of B vitamins to help get the acids higher so it kills off. But if the, if they say now that those infections get into the lining and reduce your HCO pumps they kill them off. So you like say mastic gum, aloe vera, some forms of licorice, you know, dgl. But again Noni. Noni to me will help clean a lot of that up.

Wow. And as noni is that like a. How would you consume is like a supplement or an herb or like like a tea?

Yeah, I would do a supplement. I like it's. It's official names Morinda Morinda supreme by supreme nutrition. But it's what they do is they take the fruit and it's, it's bitter and they shave the outer shell.

Yeah.

And that bitterness smells like a dirty soccer. Oh it is. It's horrible smelling. But it'll kill parasites too.

Yeah. Wow, interesting. Now would you use the same approach for the salmonella or is that different?

No, I use the same because you'll usually find that these microbes like I just mentioned, Neem, Noni and the Coptis, they're antimicrobial, they'll kill yeast, mold, viruses, parasites, Lyme, they'll kill a lot of things.

Wow, interesting. And by the way for those of you listening, don't worry, I'll. In my show notes producers gonna have a lot of work on their hands cause we're naming a lot of stuff.

But don't worry, I'll send everything to you.

Don't worry, I'll put it all on there and crystal helps. We'll make this a really, really great show notes for you. If you're digging through some of these issues. Now that, that one thing that you were mentioning that spread to the brain, I don't remember if you said what you do about that. If someone has like pandas in relation to. I think you said it was streptococcus.

With that you have to be very gentle because when you clean it out too fast, the release of the encapsulated like the body will store those infections, extra infections and toxins and they can get worse when you release them. So this is a case where you have to use herbs that kill off strep and you have to make sure that they have their minerals assessed by like a good test and get their minerals on level.

But you mean like a hair tissue mineral.

Yes, you'd have to do that. And they really had to have a good practitioner, a good functional medicine doctor who does know, I mean, methylation processes, to do it gently for even young ones, because you have to get their liver turned back on and to get the colon. The biggest thing I see with panspan is. And the parents who have to work with this, they know is that the kids are usually functionally constipated. They'll go a little bit. But like, if you can get a kid to do like an enema.

Yeah.

Coffee enemas doing some form ionic foot baths.

What kid doesn't love a good coffee enema?

I literally had a patient, a mom, send me a picture of what her son passed. And we were working on parasites. It looked like a tree root coming out.

Geez. And that's not like mucosal threads. It's actual parasites.

Actual parasites. You could see the worms in it.

Oh, gosh.

Yeah.

Geez.

And it was.

Because sometimes it's just like. It's just mutual threads. Yeah.

Because they'll use. And I forgot makuna. Yeah, like they'll use macuna. I'm sorry, not makuna. Mimosa. Mimosa pudica.

Yeah, mimosa pudica.

It will clean up, then it just makes sludge. And so they'll have mucus plugs.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. That's the problem is a lot of people will take an anti parasite that's only got mimosa pudica in it. And they're like, I got parasites. I'm like, no, you just lost a bunch of mucus.

Yeah.

What happened?

Yep.

Yeah.

Wow.

That's a crazy issue. I was even aware of that. Now, you mentioned the. The surge in herpes that you've seen. Are you using the same approach as you used for Epstein Barr for that, or is it something different?

It's usually a little different. I will say that herpes viruses, when I use. I say Chinese medicine and frequency medicine procedures, they are very different. I can't just say, like, I love the world. I said it's antiviral. And I like skullcap because it has a lot of antiviral capabilities. But really it has to be where a patient comes in. I just have to Assess. I would have to give them different herbs in different ratios.

Yeah, yeah.

It's very tough. I had a guy that just. I just worked on, he's in Dubai, and they have the Ayurvedic medicine practitioners are amazing over there. Like, he had one that uses oil concoction. He had it all in his stomach. He had HSV2. And he says he was virus. And he said I was literally pulling small clots, little blood out of my skin. My skin. It pulled it to the surface.

Oh, my gosh. And he was using these Indian Ayurvedic.

Ayurvedic herbs. And I didn't know the combination. I said, whatever that doc's doing, keep doing it. Yeah.

Geez.

There's Ayurvedic herbs out there that do it. I mean, I use my combinations and they work really well. I believe they do because we get a lot of people cleaned up.

Yeah.

But I. I'm not going to be. That person says, I know all the herbs.

Yeah. How does that work? When you, when you go to Dubai, people just, like, fly you over to treat them and after they find out about you.

Yeah. I work with a lot of patients that are already virtual clients. And they were like, hey, can you. Can you come please help us out in person? So I'll go over there.

So you do, like. If somebody's listening, you do, like, telemedicine consults.

I do, yeah.

But you can't actually touch them and do electrical frequency testing or anything like that. They have to come to your office.

They usually have to come to the office. Usually with the good. With my symptomatology assessment, I have them send a picture of their tongue, their hands, and even sometimes their eyes. And usually, brother, I can get a really good idea of which organs are not even working well.

Wow. Now, you mentioned briefly, ionic foot baths. Some people raise an eyebrow at those and say that it's just an electrical reaction in the water that causes that black or brown or green sludge to form. Is there actually anything to an ionic foot bath?

I will say this. From my testing for the people listening, I have seen really big changes in people who've just done one before. They, you know, they were toxic and they come in and all their electric and all their acupuncture points were smooth. And I've had patients, literally, that have had, like, they'll have. This person only has orange. Using the same machine, this person only has black, which is a lot of, like, huge toxic. The colon. Some people have orange from their arthritis. They give you These color patterns, we know that. But one of the craziest stories, brother. I had a patient who had heavy parasites all in her lower legs. From my indications, she, she did once. Oh, strongyloides thread worms will get in your legs and they'll put larvae in there.

Oh my gosh.

And so they were doing, she did the foot bath, she took a picture instead. And there are these small worms, tons of them in her water. So when they say like in ionic discharge, we know it's like if that's the highest, your toxins will go down towards that little diode in the water and it will actually liquefy and go through your pores and then it resolidifies when it hits the air. So you'll have different toxins. Now I'm just saying, from my experience, I've seen it work.

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So do you have any other kind of like technologies in your office that you use, like frequency generators? Like we were, we were jumping up and down the trampoline front of the biocharger earlier by the way, which we were running the right frequencies this morning. Do you use any tools like that?

Yes, I mean I use to me like thing I love to use is, I say infrared pattern light instruments, which means yes, it's infrared Far and near, which are calculated to do different strobe patterns. And I also use laser, cold laser therapy with tons of specific frequency, just like your frequency generators. And I use them in concentrated batches because the instruments are smaller. Now, the cool thing is they're high powered. What I did find out was that when I held a light source at a specific length from the body and an angle, that's when their nervous system and their acupuncture system would respond, because they use biofeedback and their pulse points to find out the length from the body. Because you could hold a light really close, and sometimes the body's just like, nah, I don't care. Yeah, but you put it at a certain length, like maybe a foot from the body at a certain angle, like 45 degrees. What I didn't know why, but they would detox so bad from their infections. But I found out was this. When an infection is really deep in your brain or your spinal cord, it creates a frequency bond, a standing wave, with the tissue they use. They say anything that comes into that wave pattern and cuts it will disassociate the infection from the tissue. And they said infrared light light therapy can do that. And I was like, that's why if you hold at a different angle and length, it will. It'll disconnect the bond between the infection and the tissue.

So it's. Is it more about the proximity or the angle?

I think it's both. But they say that angles like. You ever see those acupunctures that put a needle that are in an angle, say, upstream or downstream? It has everything to do with it. Because on my little monitors, like I use those devices, I use some pretty strong lasers at the office, but they will not make their change on the body unless it's at a specific angle, in my opinion.

Huh. Wow. Yeah. I've got. I've got one little LED laser device called the Keon. It's probably a lot lower powered than what you have, but I like to use it as spot treatments for joints or around the neck, for the vagus nerve, or for blood irradiation after something like methylene blue. But yeah, speaking of methylene blue, as far as supplements go, like, do you yourself have certain supplements that are like non negotiables for you that you take on a regular basis?

Yeah, I would say that I do like methylene blue. I think you did visit with Dr. Laurence. So I take some of Dr. Lawrence's.

Methylene blue, God bless him. He even injected into my prostate. He did methylene blue iv. He hangs an IV bag next to these red light panels and does a methylene blue iv. He does methylene blue injections, like prolotherapy of methylene blue. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

My, my non negotiables can be like, I say, everybody's bio, individual. I go and get, I have my genetics reading and genetic report, and I get an update on my methylation supplementation by one of my friends, Dr. Nancy Miller down in Texas. So I'm saying I get my daily dose of my B vitamins and minerals, getting all those coordinated with my, with my methylation. I do that every three months. Methylene blue. I do certain peptides according to what I'm, you know, my body's needs at that time.

Okay.

And then.

And how do you know which peptides your body needs?

I usually had Dr. Miller test me out for that one. Okay. And then I also try to figure out. When you say like my non negotiables, I think to me is fatty acids. I know that many people would say you take efa, but there are certain essential fatty acids with different components, like 3, 6, 9 combos that I have to use for me. And I think. But I use a lot of light therapy on myself as well.

Okay, what's, what's Dr. Miller testing to know what kind of peptides and supplements or vitamin B complex.

She uses frequency medicine as well, but she's, to me, she's a biochemistry wizard. So she knows when she reads a genetic report.

Yeah.

She can see like five, six steps ahead.

Wow.

And what's the name of her practice? Just Dr. Nancy Miller. Huh. She's really shy, so she'll be like, she goes, don't tell more people about me. I'm like, I mean, like you just did. Unfortunately, she's the person that does so much for me.

Now, how about your movement or your exercise habits? I mean, obviously I talk to a lot of people who practice Chinese traditional medicine, for example, or into tai chi or qigong. You mentioned yoga, but what does your movement practice look like?

Most of my practice are based in qigong movement practices. And when we did the breath work, Chinese qong and mindful, I say prayers and meditation in the morning, five to, five to 10 minutes of breathing with redirection of chi. Like, I can like moving in certain areas in the body in the morning and then five minutes of usually standing practice, grounding in the same way every single day. And I say like movement. We did exercise today, but some of mine are usually like more core and sort of plyometric because I try to personally, like, focus, like, on my plasticity of my. My collagen, like, getting my connective tissue. Because in Chinese medicine, there was, like, electrical flow through the connective tissue. So daily it's stretching the fascia.

That's now the qigong. What's that actually look like?

Qigong is more like a. Like a dance, per se.

You know the difference between Tai chi and qigong, if you look at the way that qigong movements are, they're very flowing. And if you look at Tai chi.

Kind of sort of like what you're doing next to the trampoline this morning.

Yes.

Okay.

And you see, like, Tai chi is more like a. A movement, like with martial arts.

Yeah.

So to me, it's. They say it's the movement in a certain pattern that will allow certain meridians for certain organs to flow the best. So certain movements in qigong are for the kidney, certain ones are for the bladder.

Yeah. Have you heard of the five Tibetan longevity exercises before? Yes, I do those five every morning when I travel at home. I've got so many other little toys and foam rollers and stuff, I mix it up. And I think those are specifically designed, kind of like you described, to target most of the different energy flows through the body.

Yes, yes.

You feel fantastic after you do them. I'll sometimes lead group, like, I'm actually headed down to LA next week to lead a couple of YPO groups and some morning workouts. And I'll be taking them through those five Tibetan rights as part of the workout because everybody does it. And I'll use that as a warmup.

Right.

And then. Then start to take them through the, you know, like, calisthenics and push ups and squats after that. But everybody just feels like they're turned on after these Tibetan rights.

Oh, I remember one of my good friends, Pat, she ran the acupuncture school I would learn from, and she would make us do these tapping patterns and these exercises every morning. She goes, you want something better than two cups of coffee? And we would do these tapping patterns, these movements. And I'm telling you, I'd be like, I don't know why I don't do this every day.

And, yeah, these aren't jumping into a cold plunge. I'll put a video, by the way, in the show notes. Me walking through the five Tibetans and how I do them. I'll put them in the show notes. Now, the grounding you describe, how did you describe it? Like moving breath through your body in a certain way.

Yes. Like, some people may think it sounds unorthodox or weird, but like, when we say grounding, they always tell us that in these points on the bottom of the feet, they're called the kidney one. It's the kidneys act like your battery. So if the kidneys are weak, if you ever had a stage, any type of stage of kidney disease or infectious bladder or UTIs. Bladder stones, kidney stones, those are the conditions that could block your kidneys and the grounding. So they say putting your feet into the earth. But we talk about breathing. I always say you're really literally visualizing that movement of electricity up through those points, getting to your kidneys and bladder and breaking it open. So that's why, because you are creating that mindfulness program to say we're going to break up all those infections, all those biofilms to allow your kidneys to work.

What's that visualization process actually look like inside your head?

Usually whenever I'm laying down or even sitting there or even outside is. Well, it's when I say relax the shoulder, they say relax the jaw. But it is like surrender. You tell like surrender to allow your tissues to open. So one of the biggest things we have is that our connective tissue is still blocked. So when in my head I am just thinking and creating a program where my tissues are opened at the very bottom of my feet and that my tissues are receptive up in my kidneys and you'll feel the electricity run right through them. Wow.

Do you ever use like nail beds or like proprioceptive socks or anything like that to kind of turn on the nerve endings in the feet a little better?

Yeah, I use mats. I use mats with the needle mats and such.

Yeah, yeah, those acupressure mats, I'll have to show you. They have these gravity mine nail beds back at home, actually down at Zen Den, we were stretching out and you stand on those things for a while and you, you step off of them and you feel like you're feeling the ground in an entirely new way. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And how about the breath? Is it, is the breath timed in conjunction that visualization or something different you.

Yes, depending on which organ that you're trying to get the electricity and the, the chi to move to. Usually whenever I am just like, say I'm focusing on the heart, I'll use different diaphragm movements or diaphragm, like how much I push the diaphragm out in the stomach to pull the diaphragm down to get more electricity into My heart.

Okay.

And so you do have to use different. And that, you know, that does come from me like working with practitioners and learning certain things. But there is a pattern of breath work. Like when we did the breath work. Those are beautiful. Like they have them on, on an app now.

Yeah, yeah, that other ship app, another good one called the Breath Source. It's fantastic. We might do another one tomorrow morning. Now, besides the gustitorial, you know, oral and, or the olfactory and visual sensing of food prior to when you eat it, do you follow a specific diet yourself or dietary principles?

Yes, I'm from. I had a stomach surgery about in 2017 where I had a ruptured ulcer. So I wasn't eating bad. I usually follow more of paleo. I can't do a lot of greens. I don't produce a lot of cellulose, so I had to take. But I take my enzymes. No, no, I can do, I can do it now since I've healed up my gut, I, Yeah, I can do my enzyme. I'll take care of it. My body does do better on a vegetarian almost diet with things like fishes and vegetables. But I, I do more like nice steamed vegetables and fishes. And I do. I was getting more, not say carnivore, but I do more red meat because when I had lime, you know, alpha gal and I had yeast, I couldn't break down beef.

So yeah, I've heard that, that if you have Lyme or certain tick borne illnesses, you develop an intolerance to meat. Like a meat.

Oh, totally. And people, they get sick. Sick. I had a guy came in a day, his whole bottom lip swelled, I mean huge from just eating beef, but I do beef.

You do beef now?

And now I can do like more greens with enzyme and I do more fruit. I don't eat a lot of fruit because they say sugars, but my ayurvedic doctor told me says no, you need more fruit. And I know what, I feel a lot better on it. I don't eat a lot of it.

Yeah.

But yeah, I have a pretty good. Yeah, I don't, I don't hardly. I don't need a lot of starches. I like them. I'm not saying they're bad. I just don't eat a ton.

Is that a similar dietary approach that you use with your, with your patients or does it vary from pat.

Everybody's different because I'll do a gene test on most patients and usually from their genetics, depending on what their gene patterns are. I'll tell them if they're good for intermittent fasting if they're good for the keto or if they're good for, you.

Know, genes that can tell you your responsive fast.

Oh, yeah.

Really?

Totally. Because if you. If I couldn't break down my fatty acids into my Krebs cycle, if they come, there's different genes like ACE genes, and all these genes that say all these fatty acids will do will not even break down. I'll be like, you're not gonna do a keto diet at all.

Interesting. Yeah, I wondered that about that recent intermittent fasting study that linked intermittent fasting heart disease. It was a weak study in general, just because the folks who were fasting were and had heart disease were smoking, they had high BMIs, they had poor access to good food based on income. But I also wondered if it's possible also that because of that they actually had some metabolic deficits that resulted in the fatty acids that were present from intermittent fasting. Really not passing through the mitochondria in a proper way.

That is exactly. If you look on their gene report guarantee 100 will not have. They call the NDUFs, NDUFUs and MUT genes that allow sugars and starches to get. Actually getting their mitochondria, they. They will have defects. And so what happens? Those sugars will turn into extra cholesterol and triglycerides to get in their heart. So they can be thin people.

Yeah, that pathway makes sense. Interesting.

Yeah.

So, yeah, those, those genes, you know, if you remember what they are, I'll put them in the show notes. Because a lot of people who listen who have had or are going to get a genetic report and want to see what their response to intermittent fasting would be. They'd probably want to check those genes out.

Oh yeah, I could get. What I can do is I'll go back and I'll write these things down. And that's for the show notes.

Yeah, yeah. Super interesting. Now, how about like the spiritual component? How much do you work that in or do you have your own spiritual practice?

My own spiritual practice, yes. Is. Is like we don't prayer and I'm Christian by faith and it's prayer. And I say meditation breath work is because allowing like trying to get my tissues to relax and get more energy into the tissue. But I don't take that. I'm not trying to separate that from my. My beliefs either. But spiritual practice, I have to use that and I for prayers for keeping my body protected, you know, energetically as well. I don't try to Incorporate. Tell a practice patient their spiritual work or what they should do. But I like to look in Chinese medicine about how each organ function is directly related to how a person will think. And people think. Really? I'm like, yes. For instance, if they always say the lung is grief, but the reason the lungs get tired is because the emotional trauma or belief pattern that they may have seen a parent die, they could have lost a job, that's a death to them. The lungs will feel the effect, and that person inherently will want to take in more air because something died.

Wow.

So their lungs will grow thicker to help them get more air. And those people always come with emphysema, asthma, bronchitis, allergies, and so they'll get.

More infections until it's almost like lung hypertrophy as a response to traumatic incidents.

Yes. And it does have to do with, like you say, spiritual practice beliefs. Because if the person spiritually and their. Their belief patterns doesn't allow them to help with that release of that grief, they'll hold on to it in their lung program.

Right. If they don't have some practice of meditation or prayer or journaling or even a community or something like that.

Y. Yeah.

Interesting. So do you ever, like, as a. As a Christian practitioner, what would be largely Eastern medicine, like, in your circle that you run in, do you ever run into people kind of giving you a hard time for that?

When I first moved back to Nashville, my father, who's a strict. He was a drill sergeant, good Christian guy, but he would be like, son, do you think people are going to take this frequency medicine stuff pretty well? And I was like, well, I. At first, people really came in and they asked if I believed in God. And when I did these different practices, and to me, I just said, well, yes, I believe in God, but I'm just using your body as a circuit board. And I believe that there's patterns, whether you believe in God or not. There's patterns of electricity running through your body. And over the years, I think people saw how I approached it, and now. Now I don't. But when I first started out, people did ask me that a lot.

Yeah. Interesting. So. So for you personally, do you have like a. Like a morning spiritual practice that you do in conjunction with the qigong and everything else, or is it all just kind of woven into that?

It's. I say it's not woven. I really do have my practice of definitely reading scriptures and with prayers, like specific prayers, and it's not. It's like praying for your patience.

Right.

And Praying for myself to interact in a way that would benefit both of us and really praying for like healing for my, my patience.

Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Even if they don't know you're praying.

Even though they're real, you know, if they didn't want me to pray for them, I understand and I don't want anything to disrupt anybody. But yeah, that's my morning, my morning time. And I usually spend most of my early times right as I get to the office too. It's like asking God for help during that day.

Yeah. Yeah. Wow. And for you, as far as like your sleep patterns go, do you pay pretty close attention to those or do you have sleep issues at all?

Oh, I definitely, I had to pay attention to mine because my family line's got a pretty bad gallbladder stuff, so. Gallbladder. Are the gallbladder supposed to recharge at night? So my sleep is pretty good. It's been. But the last six months I've been doing more gallbladder detox from parasites. So my sleep patterns do well. But at times in the like 12 or 1 o', clock I'll get a little wake up sometimes. But it's gotten better since I've been doing a lot more parasites.

Is that based on that Chinese circadian clock that certain organs that have dysfunctions are going to cause waking at certain times in the night?

Yes, that's what I always. I pay attention to patterns. Like you say, if a person's actually, if they use an aura ring, if they're actually getting into a certain amount of sleep. My what I. The way I could help, I try to tell the patient is if you're not getting down deep sleep, I know which organ is getting is the most toxic that's trying to clean out at that time. Clean it up and you'll see your sleep patterns change.

What's, what's like around like 3am or so the lungs. I'm mostly asking because the past two nights I woke up like 3:00am yeah, usually.

Like remember you said you went to India and you said the lungs were trying to clean out?

Yeah, there could be stuff like that. My father just passed too.

Yeah.

You know you talked about that grief.

The grief, yeah.

Interesting. Wow. What are some other common waking times?

The most common I'll say is like around 12:12am 1:00am and that's gallbladder, that's going to be gallbladder and you're going to get right to the liver. So usually that person, if they get up gallbladder people always say it's resentment. And it's true. And livers anger. But usually there's two other things they have to remember. Overwhelmed with too many responsibilities. And also too, if you feel like in life it doesn't have to do with food. If you have starvation of something like, I'm starving for love. I'm starving for affection. I'm starving for attention. I'm gonna guarantee you're gonna wake up in the middle of the night, three o', clock, lungs. And then sometimes I have people that tell me 5am they wake up. And some people get up that time.

But I was gonna say 5am that means it's morning time.

It is. It's like they usually, if they say, well, I like to sleep till 7, which. Okay. Usually constipation. They're functionally constipated. Large intestine issues.

Okay. Interesting. Wow. So what I'm gonna do is obviously, it sounds like you're going to be able to send some stuff over, Chris, that we'll put in the show notes. And then I'm just going to amass a bunch of information. So if you're listening, you go to BenGreenfieldLife.com Motley I'll link to Chris's clinic. We'll make some lists of some of these herbal remedies and sources and tests that he likes. And try and make this a real, real helpful show notes for you and Chris. Anything else you're looking forward to the rest of the day here in Washington?

Man, I'm just glad. I'm just. Yeah, I'm just glad to get to hang out with Dan.

Salmon and asparagus.

Oh, yeah. I'm just super glad. I'm gonna go back and hit the rest of that smoothie now.

My smoothies tend to stick to your ribs.

Oh, man, it's gonna be great. And then, yeah, just looking forward to hanging with you. And I really appreciate the opportunity, brother. Thank you so much for having me here.

Sweet. All right, folks. Well, I'm Ben Greenfield along with the great Dr. Chris Motley. Again, the show notes going to be@BenGreenfieldLife.com Motley if you have questions, comments, feedback, etcetera, you can leave it over there. And thanks so much for listening in. Have a fantastic week.

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