Why I Am No Longer Going To Be Using "Plant Medicines": Part 2

My name is Ben Greenfield and on this episode of the Ben Greenfield Life Podcast.

Now this is exactly why I've said in the past that when, say, a man goes to porn, right, he's looking for something to fill that eternal gnawing hole in his soul. And only God can fill a God shaped hole in a soul. Just because you and I might be responsible enough to have a pantry full of tiny doses of hallucinogens that we use with great care, there is a very great risk that these compounds could get into the wrong hands. So the fact that there's a great big warning sign tells me that we need to be very, very careful indeed with promoting and extolling the virtues of these plan.

Faith, family, fitness, Health, performance, Nutrition, Longevity, Ancestral living, biohacking, and a whole lot more. Welcome to the show.

Welcome to Part two. Here we are of this two part podcast series, namely on the topic of why I'm no longer going to be using plant medicines, at least in the traditional, recreational, journeying sense of the phrase. If you missed part one, I highly recommend you go back and listen to it. Maybe even before you listen to this one. You can find it in the show notes for it and an article for it at BenGreenfieldLife.com PlantMed Part 1 that's BenGreenfieldLife.com Plantmed Part Part the number one today's show notes article. Everything else is going to be, oddly enough at BenGreenfieldLife.com plant med part two BenGreenfieldLife.com plant Med part the number two and this is a solo, so there's just me talking at you, sharing some thoughts. Thoughts that I think are very, very important. Because in the first part, in part one, which turned out to be somewhat controversial and did ruffle some feathers, I gave you a thought, thorough explanation and argument behind my conviction that when it comes to the ever expanding and increasingly popular world of plant medicines, not only do the cons outweigh the pros, but when you're partaking of these type of compounds and chemicals that significantly alter your state of consciousness, you're opening yourself up to influence from a spiritual world that threatens to land you in a very dark place indeed. In other words, when it comes to plant medicines, we aren't just talking about the equivalent of, say, drinking too much coffee or having a bit too much pre workout kratom, or chomping on an extra piece of nicotine gum, or socially lubricating an evening with an extra glass of wine. Instead, substances like lsd, psilocybin, peyote mescaline or any other highly effective, typically hallucinogenic or psychedelic consciousness altering compound, many of which I named in part one have great potential to open you up to a deep, dark spiritual world in which there is a battle for your very soul. So if you didn't listen to part one again, please do. It's@bengreenfieldlife.com plantmed part one and of course there are several unanswered questions and considerations that I need to address here in part two, namely microdosing with plant medicines, which I've been asked a lot about the quote, responsible use of marijuana, the bigger glaring issue that many of these types of vices bring up, and a special project I'm planning to work on that I'd like to invite you to be a part of, based on perhaps giving up some of our vices, at least temporarily. So that all being said, let's dive in. So let's start here. Microdosing what about microdosing?

So microdosing, which I actually discussed in detail in a podcast interview with one.

Of the grandfathers of plant medicine, microdosing.

James Fadiman, involves taking very small sub perceptual dose of what is typically a psychedelic hallucinogen. I've done it a lot and it works fantastically. For example, 110 of a so called trip dose of LSD can give you six to eight hours of pure clean focus with zero energy crashes and incredible amounts of positive energy for work or workouts. For example, a tiny dose of psilocybin.

Like an eighth of a gram or.

So can amplify your senses, make colors more bright, enhance visual auditorial factoring, sensory.

Perception, and notably increase creativity for things like art or writing or music. A small capsule of say a Wachuma cactus extract can produce this heart opening effect that increases social ability, empathy, confidence, et cetera without the toxic side effects of the alcohol that many people would normally use to achieve the same effect. So yeah, microdosing is. It's pretty nifty. I found it to be pretty handy. But here's the problem. Here's what I've been thinking about a lot lately. If we all, you and me and the rest of the world decide that microdosing is efficacious, relatively harmless, and most notably does not shift one's state of consciousness. To an extent that one is say, journeying, hallucinating, or in any other state of psychedelic enlightenment or stupor, then that means we should also tend to agree that these compounds would be available to the masses and widely accessible due to their purported benefits. The problem is if you make widely available and endorse the usage of minuscule doses of any compound that has traditionally been used in sorcery, richcraft, you know, occult, magic or any other pharmakea esque activities like those I described in part one of this series, then in my opinion you do risk opening the door quite wide for abuse potential. Someone can very easily, accidentally, or let's just say simply for the case of curiosity, take just a touch too much of some of those compounds they keep around for microdosing, like LSD or psilocybin or ketamine or wachuma and find themselves thrust into a state in which they are susceptible to dark spiritual influences and a hallucinogenic psychotic type of experience. There's also great potential that the frequent use of such compounds could result in a so called gateway effect, leading a user to experiment with a wider variety of microbiome microdosing compounds in increasingly higher dosages until they suddenly find themselves signing up for some ayahuasca retreat in Peru. So just because you and I might be responsible enough to have a pantry full of tiny doses of hallucinogens that we use with great care, there is a very great risk that these compounds could get into the wrong hands, particularly the hands of, say, like a child or someone who's schizophrenic or on the edge of psychosis and could potentially lead to drug abuse. And yes, I know that that one could kill themselves with the caffeine in coffee too, and possibly even experience a psychotropic effect from coffee. But it's far more difficult to do this with coffee than with, say, lsd. Like a few extra coffee beans in my morning French brew won't leave me laid out on the floor with my tongue legging out my mouth. As my friend Paul Reese notes in his book, It's a relatively new book, it's a good book. It's called the Psychedelic Christian and I'll link to that@bengreenfieldlife.com PlantMed Part 2 There's certainly a possibility that God's original intent for such compounds is indeed for things like enhanced sensory perception, sex, hunting, creativity, productivity, focus, et cetera. But I'm personally now wrestling with the idea that whether similar to the heftier use of plant medicines, the cons of endorsing microdosing compounds and encouraging unfettered and eventually legal access to them might outweigh the pros. I mean, even the traditional use of popular microdosing drugs for, say, the Organic and ancestral activity of hunting also traditionally involves taking enough of a dose to be able to divine with the gods about when and where exactly to hunt or what to hunt for, which seems to present the same problems I brought up in part one, a great potential for negative spiritual influences, which would be especially concerning to a Christian or to anyone else who doesn't want to be subjected to potential for demonic influence or idolatry. And to hear or to see what I mean. And I'll link to this for you. Listen to Glenn Shepherd's lecture the Harpy's Gift in the Jaguar that he recently gave at a conference put on by Dennis McKenna on psychedelics. Or you can read a similar summary of his thoughts in a PDF that I'll link you to. It's just that these microdosing compounds we use for hunting typically go far beyond microdoses. Now in the past I have while hunting, taking microdoses of psilocybin and use traditional hunting medicines like hoppe or sananga, and I found that they do indeed result in a notable increase in sensory perception and a wide variety of benefits. But I'm struggling with the idea that they also have been used by many cultures to commune with the gods. So now I'm on the fence about even these seemingly harmless compounds. There's definitely something kind of spiritually edgy about them. Now, to be frank, I haven't yet decided if I'm going to swear off microdosing, but I'm certainly questioning, especially with all the other productivity, creativity or sensory enhancing compounds that are available out there that are non psychedelic like coffee or kratom or ketones or done for you blends like qualia or alpha brain or neutopia or nicotine. Whether microdosing with psychedelics is worth the risk. And just because I might be able to get away with responsible usage doesn't mean everybody will. Which actually reminds me of a Bible passage in the Book of Romans in the Bible about being careful not to cause others to stumble. It goes like this.

Therefore let us not pass judgment on one another any longer, but rather decide never to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of a brother. I know and am persuaded in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself, but it is unclean for anyone who thinks it unclean. If your brother is grieved by what you eat, you are no longer walking in love by what you eat. Do not destroy the one for whom Christ died. So don't let what you regard as good be spoken of as evil. For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. Whoever thus serves Christ is acceptable to God and approved by men. So let us pursue what makes for peace and for mutual upbuilding. Do not, for the sake of food, destroy the work of God. Everything is indeed clean, but it's wrong for anyone to make another stumble by what he eats. It is good not to eat meat or drink wine or do anything that causes your brother to stumble. The faith that you have keep between yourself and God blessed is the one who has no reason to pass judgment on himself for what he approves. But whoever has doubts is condemned if he eats, because the eating is not from faith. For whatever does not proceed from faith is sin. So ultimately what this means is that there's potential for, even if I'm microdosing responsible, if I'm talking a lot about it, for there to be other people who might actually be hurt by the use of such compounds. Now, I haven't currently made up my mind about this. To be honest, I'm praying about it. I also welcome your comments and feedback about microdosing in the comments section that you'll find in the show notes for this podcast. I'm currently an gathering and feedback in council mode on this. I'm not necessarily opposed to a touch of psilocybin or hoppe or sananga before a hunt, or a light snort of ketamine or a pull on a THC vape pen before, say, like a deep tissue massage or a lovemaking session with my wife, so long as such practices don't lead to misuse and abuse of the microdosing compounds that you keep on hand for such activities. But in the meantime, I have stopped recreational microdosing with anything that's been traditionally used as a psychedelic or hallucinogen, while continuing to ask myself, what if everybody had unfettered access to this in their pantry? And for that reason, any plant medicines that I haven't thrown out that still remain under the roof of my house for the purposes of microdosing or sex, for example, have been relocated to a locked safe very similar to my guns, my ammunition, my weapons. And I just think that we need to approach these things with probably even more respect than we traditionally have. So again, I'd welcome your thoughts on this matter if you want to leave me some of your comments and feedback, because I'm going to continue to explore whether or not I think microdosing presents an issue, but I could foresee it definitely doing so okay, next. I'm getting asked now about marijuana because it's kind of like on the edge. It can be psychedelic and highly hallucinogenic, yet it does have a definite amount of medical benefits and possibly some recreational benefits. So when it comes to marijuana, I am increasingly beginning to agree with a previous podcast guest of mine named Doug Wilson, who authored a book called Devoured by Cannabis, Weed, Liberty, and Legalization. I did a podcast with him. I'll link to it in the show notes for this podcast. But what I mean by that is like microdosing. Despite there being ways to use marijuana quite responsibly, there's also great potential for abuse. And despite cannabis not strictly being something that has been used originally and historically for, say, witchcraft or sorcery or occult magic, it still troubles my spirit that I can't swing a dead cat by the tail, at least here in Washington state, without hitting some cannabis clinic where just about anybody can waltz in and buy enough weed to quite quickly and effectively shift them into a psychotic hallucinogenic state. And like microdosing, I'm questioning whether the cons outweigh the pros of this. See, if we decide marijuana is okay because it can be used responsibly and we decide to give everybody unfettered access, there's a lot of people who will misuse it. For example, Washington and Colorado approved recreational marijuana use in 2012. And proof of the negative impact of legalization has continued to pour in. I mean, these states are experiencing more marijuana use, more youth marijuana use, more illegal marijuana trafficking, more crime, more homelessness, more traffic fatalities, more ER admissions, and more addiction to pot since they legalized it. They're also spending four times the amount of revenue that pot sales have generated to deal with these consequences of legalization, not to mention risking many young folks experiencing brain damage, memory and cognitive impairment, impairment and psychosis that arises when a human brain is exposed to chronic cannabis use, particularly a young human brain. Now, at the same time, I am a bit torn on this issue, because I think cannabis is absolutely wonderful for purposes like relaxation or creativity or sleep or massage therapy or mobility work or acute or chronic pain. I've used it responsibly and effectively for all those purposes. But despite me benefiting from and enjoying cannabis responsibly myself, I'm not convinced widespread legality and access is such a good idea. The modern high THC variants of weed found in most cannabis shops are very, very difficult to use responsibly. It's like microdosing. I'm now considering whether the cons outweigh the pros when it comes to marijuana. And I mean, look, if you want to grow normal cannabis in your backyard or basement, a natural plant, that's a far cry from the ultra concentrated THC cookies and gummies and candies and vape pens at the average cannabis shop, I think that's probably fine, just as long as you can use it responsibly and you're not causing others to stumble, like I mentioned before by getting high. But I don't think it's a good idea for society to have a recreational cannabis dispensary on every corner. People just don't seem to be responsible enough. I mean, I can sit around a campfire smoking a cigar with my buddies and remain in a pretty lucid state. And the same can't be said if we were, say, passing a joint around the campfire. There's bound to be at least one person in that campfire group who winds up getting high. Dissociated, psychotic, addicted or dependent, and in a state that is a far cry from the sober and alert state that a responsible Christ like human being should be in. So, similar to getting a prescription for, say, pain meds, I think you probably should have a prescription, use marijuana, or just grow your own and use it responsibly. Furthermore, I think if you grow it, it shouldn't be grown for average everyday recreational use, but rather as something you might use small amounts of, say at night for relaxation or sleep, or small amounts of during the day for pain management if you've been injured or have some kind of disease that causes chronic pain, or perhaps occasionally before, like a lovemaking session or something like that, as we know, it does enhance the sexual experience. Now, ultimately, now that I've reoriented my perspective on compounds that can alter your state of consciousness to the extent that you're entering a deep and dark spiritual world. And again, marijuana doesn't have to, but can. I'm just not convinced that endorsing unfettered access to weed is something I can really get behind. And of course, similar to microdosing, there's great potential for weed to serve as a gateway drug to other more problematic compounds, such as when the recreational cannabis user hears about combining it with just a touch of, say, acid or ketamine or Ecstasy, just a little bit won't hurt and it'll make the experience better, right? But then we all know what can happen next. So, in addition to welcoming your thoughts on microdosing, I also fully welcome your thoughts on marijuana in the comment section. Because frankly, I'm still wrestling with and praying about the proper decision on this one. In the meantime, like microdosing, besides just pure CBD for safe sleep, I've just stopped using marijuana. Not necessarily because I'm convinced it's totally evil, but rather because I do view it as a vice, as an attachment, as a potential item that I could be in bondage, to which I'll explain briefly. I just want to check myself and make sure I'm not dependent on it. And the best way to do that is to simply stop using it, in my opinion. I'll expound on that shortly. Now, finally, when it comes to the responsible use of plant medicine, I realized that I've said before, as Genesis 1:31 also says, God made all things good. But God also lays out clear guidelines in the Bible for how to interact with all elements of his creation. God made men and women beautiful and attractive to each other, but that doesn't mean we should sleep with as many, many possible partners as we can so that we can all experience all of God's goodness. Instead. God clearly implies that we should be in a loving, committed relationship with one partner. God made honey too, right? And then he warns us in proverbs that consuming too much of it can be a sin of gluttony that can leave us sick and vomiting. God made Ergo, which is rich in LSD like chemicals, magic mushrooms, psychedelic cacti, and intelligent plant stems and vines like ayahuasca too. But he also commanded us to avoid any pharmacia, witchcraft, sorcery, occult activities, divination, or anything else that these compounds have traditionally been used for. So the fact that there's a great big warning sign from God on this stuff tells me that we need to be very, very careful indeed with promoting and extolling the virtues of these plants for recreational and spiritual activity. I'd be curious again to hear what you think. I want this to be a big discussion. There is a bigger issue here and I think this is super important. This is super important. Okay, all of this talk about plant medicines needs to be considered in the light of a bigger issue, namely the glaring fact that any of these so called vices, whether helpful, harmful or neutral, whether safe for the soul because of their inherent difficulty of achieving an altered state of consciousness, or whether dangerous and sinful for the soul due to their ease of achieving an altered state of consciousness, reflect typically some kind of attachment in life that we may have chosen to place more trust in than God. Now here's what I mean. Drinking Coffee is not a sin, but waking in the morning and feeling as though you cannot achieve any objective that God has called you to without a hefty dose of your precious caffeine reflects a deeper underlying issue, an attachment or possibly an addiction that's displaying you cannot fully trust God for all you need. This is coming from a guy who owns a coffee company, but also switches from caffeinated to decaf once a month just to check myself now you cannot do all things through Christ who strengthens you. If you are convinced that you need the help of coffee right? If that's your current relationship with coffee, you likely need to reset that relationship until you get to the point where you drink coffee because you enjoy it, but you could ultimately take it or leave it. Or for example, if you're responsible and not causing others to fall into addiction or into sin, then eating a marijuana edible or taking a hit on a cannabis vape pen to help get you through a bout of insomnia and sleepless nights may not be a moral downfall per se. But for example, there was a period of time during which I personally convinced myself that I couldn't get a good night of sleep without such a strategy, right? Without pulling on a vape pen. I wasn't trusting God to deal with my racing thoughts and worries and I wasn't asking him to give me a good night of sleep. I wasn't even praying God give me rest. I was just like take a hit on vape pen and pass out. I was dosing, escaping and passing out of sleep without ever asking myself why I would need to sledgehammer myself to sleep at night, nor whether God was actually keeping me awake so he could speak to me clearly in the still small silence you find in the night, or keeping me awake so I could use that time to do a much needed bout of soul seeking, self examination and prayer. See, as I've written many times elsewhere, you have to constantly question yourself and examine your day to determine if any attachments in life are weighing you down, keeping you chained in bondage to a compound chemical tool or toy and distracting you from listening to God, trusting God and growing your relationship with Him. So your body, your biohacks, money, drugs, supplements, microdoses, energy drinks, nicotine, kratom, food knowledge, podcasts, books, your social media feed and your email and your hourly direct messages check in and your precious calendar you do such a gobble. You know a good job staying on top of I'm not saying you have to give any of those things up, but I'm saying that you must be willing to do so, and furthermore, you must do so if you've grown so dependent on that vice or attachment that you place more trust in it than you do in God, and it has therefore become your idol. As Anthony d' Mello says in his book Awareness, you should be able to say to anything in life, I really do not need you to be happy. I'm only deluding myself in the belief that without you I will not be happy, but I really don't need you for my happiness. I can be happy without you. You are not my happiness. You are not my joy. Or especially if your attachments are focused on achievement and power and fame and money, which in highly driven people can inevitably create FOMO and stress and distraction from more impactful activities. You could say, as author Arthur Brooks writes in his really good book From Strength to Strength, this is not evil, but it will not bring me the happiness and peace I seek, and I simply don't have the time to make it my goal. I choose to detach myself from this desire. Now in Buddhism, a practical guide exists for dealing with such troublesome attachments, and it's based on the Four Noble Truths. 1 Life is suffering due to chronic dissatisfaction. 2 the cause of this suffering is craving, desire and attachment for worldly things. 3 Suffering can be defeated by eliminating this craving, desire and attachment. And four the way to eliminate craving, desire and attachment is by following the Noble Eightfold path of Buddhism. Now, while I actually do agree that the suffering we all experience in life and our subsequent addiction to attachments often begins with cravings and desires, I do beg to differ with the solution presented in Buddhism. Instead, I firmly believe the only way to permanently release attachments is to fill that eternal craving and desire in your soul with the only thing eternal that exists, namely God. You know, as C.S. lewis says in the Weight of Glory, the things in which we thought the beauty was located will betray us if we trust to them. It was not in them, it only came through them. And what came through them was longing. These things are good images of what we desire, but if they're mistaken for the thing itself, they turn into dumb idols, breaking the hearts of their worshipers, for they're not the thing itself. This is exactly why I've said in the past that when, say a man goes to porn, right, he's looking for something to fill that eternal gnawing hole in his soul. He's looking for God. And only God can fill a God shaped hole in a soul. The porn might temporarily do that, but Only God can do it permanently. Now, the same could be said for a late night trip to the refrigerator to binge on ice cream, or a never ending quest to achieve a perfect body or return after return to seeking the wisdom of plant medicine. When engaged in such activities, we're seeking to soothe our soul with some kind of idol that has great potential to scar our soul. Other far less morally awful activities like climbing a beautiful epic peak, making hot sweet love with your spouse, or plunging into an icy cold lake, don't necessarily scar our soul. They carry with them far less spiritual risk. But yet still apart from God, even these noble pursuits will ultimately be unfulfilling or become attachments and idols. But with God, they actually become all the more magical and fulfilling because God is most glorified in us when we are most satisfied in Him. Particularly when we are engaged in pleasurable activities that follow God's law and allow us to love God and love others. Now, I can tell you for a fact that once I made the decision to forego plant medicines, God opened the door to a whole lot of other stuff that I hadn't realized had become idols. I was in bondage to a lot of vices. So I started asking myself constantly, do I need that morning stretch session or workout so much that my day automatically gets crappy without it? Am I reaching for a piece of nicotine gum because I need true energy or because I've become a slave in bondage to nicotine? Am I grabbing an energy drink because I've become dependent on it and why can't I just have a glass of water instead? Indeed, after that one big decision about plant medicine that I told you about in part one of this series, addiction after addiction, attachment after attachment, and vice after vice slowly began to become revealed to me by God. And I began to target and tackle them one by one. And it wasn't pleasant. And at the same time, it was very fulfilling. For example, I had a string of six nights during which I only slept three to four hours because I decided to take no sleep supplements. Right? I realized I was in bondage to popping pills in order to fall asleep at night. And I can tell you there was nothing quite so satisfying as that seventh night on which I finally realized I could just pray myself to sleep and will I go back to taking sleep supplements? Sure, they have their time and place, but they need to be paired with trusting God and having a relationship relationship with God for a solid week. I'll give you another example. After stopping coffee and nicotine gum, I craved caffeine and nicotine all day long. So much that I couldn't even walk by a coffee maker or pantry without getting supremely annoyed. And then one day I decided that every time I felt like I needed those compounds, I should simply recite the Bible verse that says I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. This simple saying quieted the longing quite effectively. Now, coming back to caffeine and nicotine after a few weeks off, one small cup of coffee makes me feel like I've jumped into an ice bath and the nicotine tastes kind of weird and chemically and I don't feel remotely attached to either, though it's unlikely I'll swear either off forever. I'll give you another example before dinner for a bit of post work relaxation. I'd grown dependent on taking an oh so tiny hit on a vape pen. And when I realized that that too was a vice that I had become enslaved to, it took nearly two weeks for me not to reach for that imaginary vape pen in my back pocket, which I instead actually locked away into the gun safe in my my closet. It turns out grabbing the guitar and playing a song was just as fulfilling. And when once I no longer craved it or felt like I needed it, I did come back and take a hit on a vape pen. The tiniest, tiniest hit left me feeling reeling and dizzy and I realized that this stuff is dangerous and needs to be treated with great respect and responsibility or just avoid it altogether. And whether a of piece, plenty of amazing resources out there for strategies like those I've just described for breaking attachments and stopping vices and beating addiction. Like BJ Fogg's book Tiny Habits or Charles Duhigg's book the Power of Habit. Or Benjamin Hardy's book Willpower Doesn't Work or James Clear's book Atomic Habits and Ronnie Landis book the Addiction Free Lifestyle. And I'll link to all those because they're all very helpful. I truly don't think that any habit breaking activity will be permanent or fulfilling or effective until each and every last vice has been replaced by an all sufficient relationship with Jesus Christ that makes you feel more whole, more fulfilled and more free than you've ever felt in your life. And I can tell you that undeniably from personal experience.

Here's what comes next. I've shared with you my current quest to become what I would describe as viceless, especially when it comes to plant medicines and any chemicals or compounds that could alter one's state of consciousness while rendering one subject to dark spiritual influences, but also when it comes to just about anything with addictive potential, like caffeine or nicotine or kratom or nootropics or smart drugs or natural sleep aids or pharmaceutical drugs, mostly if they're being used off label for things like energy or on label for things like sleep or even food. Now endocannabinoids, plant medicines, opioids and the like can easily numb you and make you forget your pain. That's why they're so attractive. They're an easy escape from the real world. But God made us to feel both pain and pleasure. He made us to gain in character and resilience and fortitude from fully experiencing an intense ice bath, a robust sauna session, a stubbed toe, a sleepless night, a broken relationship or a lost job. You can embrace these type of experiences and become a better person from them, or you can run away and numb with drugs. But the intense beauty of a natural forest scene as you hike in a fully sober state is far more beautiful than any dissociated shroomy trip in our heads can provide. So embrace the pleasure and embrace the pain. Also think about how the rapid surge and popularity of plant medicines and opioids and marijuana and the like seem to be occurring at just about the the same time and in rough correlation to the surge in disconnecting ourselves from the beauty and hardship of the analog world so we can escape into a digital metaverse world. I don't know about you, but I'd rather experience life with my senses fully on board and not feel as though I need drugs as a crutch to get through life. My friend Dr. Zach Butch spoke about this problematic and growing dependency on plant medicines at about the six minute mark of a recent conversation with the with my friend Luke Story. I'll link to this one in the shownotes@bengreenfieldlife.com PlantMed Part 2 Now Zach describes how we believe we need exogenous inputs for personal growth like plant medicines, but they're just showing us something that's already there. If we had only taken the time in the still small silence to sit with our thoughts, even the painful ones, and to sit with God like me. Those of us who have made the fatal error of going to plant medicine as the route to enlightenment can come back to others like you with the cautionary tale that it definitely isn't the way, and it's ultimately as unfulfilling as any other method we might turn to to feel good, like exercise or diet or supplements or Alcohol or golf or food or anything else. There's nothing as fulfilling as the simplicity and freedom found in a belief in Jesus Christ. And sure, plant medicines offer a momentary temporal escape from the pain, but you don't need it. The actual solution is permanent and and free. And like I said earlier, involves embracing both the pain and the beauty. So you could pop pills, right? You could take plant medicine, or you can do the work. You can chop wood, carry water, savor the fruits of your labor, and experience life as fully as possible. So now I've got a special challenge for you, okay? I want you to try it. Just go ahead and try it. Try giving it all up and placing your trust in God. Try questioning each and every habit, both positive and negative. It's rooted in your daily existence and asking yourself whether you've grown so dependent on it that it's taking your attention off the strength, stamina, peace, love and joy that you can derive from a deeper relationship with your creator. Now, here's what's important. You don't have to do it all at once. I mean, heck, if you've really dug yourself into a habit hole, quitting a whole bunch of stuff cold turkey can leave you completely nuked and unable to function at all. And that's not fun. So start slow. For example, here's a sample timeline of what you could implement to eventually, via the grace and power to write from, from God, become viceless. Week one, no microdosing. And then also on one day of that week, do a 24 hour dinner time to dinnertime fast. Week two, continue not microdosing, but then cut out marijuana if you've been using it. Also do a fast that week, the next week. Week three, cut out nicotine fast one day. Week four, cut out kratom fast one day. Week five, cut out coffee sorry fast one day. Week six, cut out all stimulants, nootropics and smart drugs. I haven't yet named one fast that week. Week seven, any sleep supplements you know you're attached to, like CBD or melatonin, or herbal relaxants, or sleep pharmaceuticals, etc. Cut those out fast one day. And then week eight, implement a three day water fast. Okay, according to my rough calculations, that's a month and a half timeline to experiment with transforming yourself into a so called viceless human. Or at least shedding many, many attachments in life that even the health and fitness world seems to to be becoming chemically addicted to. So my question is, if I were to help put something like that on, who would be with me. I'm not saying it's official, but I'm not opposed to launching some kind of an eight week journey as an official viceless challenge for me and the people who listen to this podcast if any of you are interested in it. My idea is that after finding out who's in via the comment section in the show notes or even hearing whether any of this resonates with you at all, I could begin a private Facebook group or something like that. Some type of a forum for us to all keep each other accountable over eight weeks and complete a daily check in with our experiences, our struggles, our sensations, our questions, you know, support tips and a whole lot more while sharing on social media with a hashtag like viceless. Now if I decide to do this, I would need some help identifying what accountability and tracking platform to use. I'm a little bit of a tuck, what do you call it? A tech Luddite. So I would welcome your comments and support in the comment section in the shownotes for this episode as well. But I feel like together we could pull it off like for eight weeks and do ourselves and the world a great good by doing so. So if you're interested in doing something like that, go to the comments section@bengreenfieldlife.com plantmedpart2 and not only leave me your thoughts on microdosing and marijuana and everything else I've talked about because I just really want this to be a discussion and I'm totally listening to all the different opinions on this, but I want to hear what you think. I want to know if you're in on some kind of a viceless quest, if you have other thoughts to share on plant medicines or microdosing or marijuana or the like. So go to BenGreenfieldLife.com PlantMed Part 2 that's BenGreenfieldLife.com Plantmed Part 2 and let me know what resonates with you and what additional thoughts you have. And then of course part one, like I mentioned, is at BenGreenfieldLife.com PlantMed part one. There's a lot of stuff to think about, I know, but it's super important to think about and it's that's ultimately been very, very transformative for me. I wouldn't be doing all this if it weren't. So anyways, thank you so much for listening in. Share this if you think it helps somebody who you know, share this and share part one and have an amazing week. Until next time, I'm Ben Greenfield signing out from BenGreenfieldLife.com.

More than ever these days, people like you and me need a fresh, entertaining, well informed, and often outside the box approach to discovering the health and happiness and hope that we all crave. So I hope I've been able to do that for you on this episode today.

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Sa.