Why Your Peptides Might Be Dangerous (& Where To Get CLEAN Peptides), How Women Should Eat, Supplement & Train Differently Than Men, & More With Dr. Melissa Grill-Petersen

My name is Ben Greenfield, and on this episode of the Boundless Life Podcast, we always think that it's men having the heart attack. It's women. And so again, what's leading to cardiovascular disease? What, if anything, as women can we reduce or remove that might be overloading our system?

Welcome to the Boundless Life with me, your host, Ben Greenfield.

I'm a personal trainer, exercise physiologist, and nutritionist, and I'm passionate about helping you discover unparalleled levels of health, fitness, longevity, and beyond.

Dr. Melissa Grohl-Petersen is somebody who knows a lot about peptides. And, I get a lot of questions about peptides. I wanted to interview Melissa, well, for a few reasons. First of all, she understands females and has a lot of knowledge about how many of these things that we look at in longevity medicine might be different for women versus men. She also knows a lot about this new peptide company that's kind of allowing people to get physician-grade or super quality peptides, which is good because I think a lot of people are hurting themselves with peptides. And, she's just kind of on the cutting edge of all things anti-aging. She's actually the founder of the Human Longevity Global, the CEO and co-founder of Peptide University. So, she just teaches this crap to people and the head faculty at the Human Longevity Institute. Melissa. Welcome to the show.

Thanks for having me. I'm super excited to be here.

Love it. Yeah. And, like I mentioned, I know you're a woman, you specialize in longevity medicine. This might be kind of a loaded question, but how do you kind of approach the idea of female longevity? Are there things that you look at that are different than what you might look at in men?

Well, yes, loaded question. First and foremost, women, we have hormones, obviously, as men do, that are really targeted by the effects of stress. And so, when we begin to think through a longevity lens, how do we live longer, better? The way I first approach it is by way of healthspan. So, when we look to say, "How can we live longer with fewer side effects, symptoms, disease, symptomatology?" It's always about an upstream approach. And so, for women, we look at the cyclical nature of our hormones and we think, "Okay, we have pre, peri, post-menopause. We have ebbs and flows." And, it is different as we chronologically age of what's happening with kind of the levels, obviously, of hormone fluctuation, the demands of life, aka stressors that are causing cortisol surges and different demands on the system. So, I'm one of those people, Ben, that as we kind of start to talk, I can talk a lot. So, I'm going to just kind of ease my way in and chunk it down. The easy answer is, yeah, there's a difference. And, when I'm going to approach it, I'm going to first say, "Where are we at? Where do we want to go? And, let's look at the factors that are informing and influencing this human system." That's kind of step one.

Got it. Painting with a broad brush. Let's start with diet. If you have a woman and she comes to you and she says, "Okay, number one thing is I want to feel good." as I age. Maybe she doesn't want— maybe she's not like 50-year-olds old wants to look like she did in a bikini when she was 18, but she just wants to look, feel, and perform well with age. Do you have any special way that you tackle the dietary component or specific nutrition approach that just seems to work for a lot of aging women?

Yes. So, one of the things that we see that affects aging women the most is metabolic inflexibility. And, I think that's really kind of at the root of so much this accelerating that rate and pace of biological aging breakdown that leads to an increased risk and rate of all-cause mortality and chronic disease. And so, when we start, it's always about start with terrain first. And so, my methodology is first understanding quality of inputs into the system is going to drive the output, right? So, we can talk all about fun things epigenetically, but when it comes to nutrition, I think the first place I start with is to say, "Okay, how do we get you into— are you metabolically flexible?" 3 out of every 4 women are historically.

Does that, by the way, mean like they're, you know, they have insulin insensitivity and a lot of glucose fluctuations, don't burn carbohydrates well? Or what do you mean when you say metabolic inflexibility?

Absolutely. So we are not using— we are not creating efficient fuel sources. So there's carbohydrates, there's fat, two main fuel sources, right? And so we are just not using either.

I don't know, there's alcohol.

Well, you're right.

You're right.

That's going to break down to it. True. I mean, you're absolutely right. We've got ketones, 100%, 100% when we think about that, yes. So, historically when we're thinking about what we're kind of taking in as our main sources of nutrition, I love— thank you for calling me out on that.

You know, the only reason I called you out on it is I see how many, not to stereotype, women love to sit around and drink red wine. So, that's got to be a macro.

We did. It does have to be a macro.

I like it.

That counts. It counts towards it 100%. Oh my gosh. But when we start to kind of tackle it, I like to, again, go very common sense first. Like, okay, first, before we get into any kind of crazy fasting cycles, before we start to take too much away, it's going, all right, if we understand that there is a 24-hour light-dark cycle and we think about circadian rhythms and how they inform and influence hormones, especially in women. We're talking hormones. Women are a little different than men, but we know how our hormones are going to rise, like around 8:00 AM, around 1:00 PM, around 6:00 PM is when the hormone ghrelin naturally signals, "Grr, I'm hungry." So, one of the first places I start with women nutritionally is to say, "Let's look at more of a circadian fasting window. Let's see how we can move you into metabolic flexibility. Let's get more efficient in how you are using what you're taking in. Before we even break down all the things to take in or not to take in, I'd still go and let's be more efficient with what is coming in. Let's stabilize blood sugar because it is— when the, the more we have those blood sugar imbalances, the greater we have that insulin resistance. And of course, this is going to not only drive the metabolic inflexibility, it's going to take us down that road of incredible metabolic syndromes, dysfunctions, PCOS, hormonal imbalances, all the things that women think, oh, it's just because I'm a woman. Well, no, it's the and it's what you're putting into your mouth, it's what's in your environment, it's what are the signals. So, let's streamline. Can we look at 3 meals a day in the light phase of the day? Can we ensure that they're nutrient-dense and just kind of keep it simple? Just kind of take a more balanced macro approach, proteins first, healthy fats, complex carbohydrates. That's kind of step 1.

Ben Greenfield: When it comes to the fasting piece, I'm curious your take on this, the idea that With some women, it seems as though fasting can be stressful, can even cause a little bit of a hypercortisolic response that results in holding on to fat, bloating, water retention, et cetera, even compared to, let's say, men who seem to do better with longer fasts and calorie restriction. Is there something to that from an evolutionary biological standpoint or a sex and gender differences standpoint or anything like that that you know of?

I actually don't. I would imagine that there probably is. I could sit here and get intelligent with saying, well, as we think about just our ability, fertility issues, and how we need to really store, we need to be able to, you know, be efficient with what's coming in so that we can go ahead and keep, you know, be fertile and childbearing. But I think in today's modern age, when we kind of look at what's happening, fasting has become— it's such a— yes, it is incredibly efficient— effective, rather, when we look at from a longevity standpoint, we look at caloric restriction, we look at the benefits of decreasing some of that calorie intake. But we've gotten to a place where we are fasting for these elongated periods of time, and it is more of a stress on the female system because as we're kind of again looking at those hormone fluctuations, you know, we need certain nutrients at certain times of the day to be more efficient. With just our energy expenditure, kind of bringing it back to metabolic flexibility. And so, it's in the way we're kind of evolving and using it, it's almost like we're working against ourselves the more we get into some of these crazy fasting windows when we're trying to help ourselves. It can have a short-term gain but a long-term negative impact on the system.

Yeah. For me, kind of like a combination of research and then just anecdotal experience working with clients, What I've settled on is that premenopausal women, especially lean active premenopausal women, they seem to not do well with regular fasts that are longer than 12 hours as opposed to a lot of lean active young men who seem to do okay with 12 to 16 hours. And, I'm talking about this from a fertility, stress, HRV, strength, performance standpoint. And then, postmenopausal women seem to do okay with longer fasts kind of similar to men. So, it seems to kind of change across the cycle.

And again, as we're more in those childbearing years versus non, the need for more nutrient-dense food. And it is, to your point, again, if we can bring it into more of that circadian window and really think in a balanced state, moving kind of with those cycles of nature versus trying to be so hard against it. We're working with our body versus against it. And, it just brings— the way I think of it, Ben, is almost like race car driving. And so, I'm just like, when we have so much metabolic imbalance right now, and again, whether it's busy schedules, I'm getting up, I'm getting out the door, I'm racing with the kids, I'm stuck in traffic, I've got too many demands on the system, I'm scrolling all the time, whatever all the load onto the modern woman's system is because she's not just able to stay in the tribe and raise the child. She is literally wearing all the hats, going out and working and coming home and raising the kids. And so, the demands on her system are much more extreme than they were 100 years ago for sure. And so, all of a sudden, it's like when we get into this place where we're out of sync and out of balance because, you know, and I know your listeners know, cortisol, is going to be a great driver of metabolic inflexibility, of weight gain, of glucose dysregulation, of insulin resistance because we're constantly surging cortisol, we're constantly dumping glucose, and we're not— which always is if we're in that kind of state of fight or flight, so to speak. And so, from that standpoint, if we can use nature, if we can use our natural clocks, to kind of catch a break. So, we don't have to work against ourselves, but we can work with ourselves. And, we just look to going, "Alright, if I get up and I delay my coffee and I get a nutrient-dense breakfast, I really get heavy protein, I get some really good healthy fats, and I give myself some complex carbs, I don't try to keep it all away, I nourish my body and I do it in time with when those hormones want to naturally cycle," I'm already in more of a, you know, I'm in a more metabolically active state. I'm better able to utilize what I'm taking in. I'm in a more fat-burning state. So, we're fuel-efficient. But, most women are skipping breakfast, right? They're doing a lot of caffeine. Maybe they're eating a little bit of lunch, a larger dinner, and too much wine. And so, we're kind of inversing the way the body wants to naturally use the nutrient. And so, when we kind of hold off food until later and later in the day, you know, by around 2 o'clock, insulin's coming online. We're naturally moving into more of a fat storage cycle. And so, now we're sitting down, we're eating heavier meals, we're spiking our blood sugar, we're postponing digestion, we're interfering with sleep cycles. And so, we really end up flip-flopping, especially as women, the time that we need to restore and rebalance. Just like how we set ourselves up at the day, the beginning of the day determines how healthy and effective we're going to be throughout the day and into the evening. So, we can do well by starting earlier, better.

Ben Greenfield: It's so much different than a lot of the advice that I think men, especially in the meathead bro bodybuilding culture, the advice they tend to get. So, what I'm not hearing from you is get up, suck down a cold brew or pre-workout, hammer that morning exercise session, and then maybe have a whey protein smoothie while you're driving to work. What you're saying is, get up, fuel yourself with nutrient-dense foods, forego the caffeine if you've become dependent on that to jumpstart your body, and then eat when it's light outside, include a lot of nutrient density, maybe have your glass of wine but try to at least taper off the calories as it's starting to get dark outside. And I mean, to me, that sounds like a pretty good life and a good approach. There are some women who are going to want to kill you though for saying delay the coffee.

I know. Ladies, listen, listen. And here's the deal. Now, Ben, you have an audience that's incredibly— many of your listeners are optimized. And so, when we're optimized, we can take a different approach. But again, if we think about when we're coming from a place where 3 out of every 4 women predominantly are in a metabolically inflexible or deficient state, overweight, obese, type 2 diabetes, PCOS, they've got some type of hormonal imbalance, right? They can't do what the optimized woman can do. We have to approach it and be a little gentler and kinder to ourselves. And yes, of course, then we've got, as we are premenopause, as we're still in our childbearing years, we're cycling. And so, as we move throughout the month, we have different hormonal demands also of when we're needing to eat, when we can be a little leaner on those nutrients coming in. And so, ladies, don't shoot the messenger, but the reality is listen to your body. And, I think that's the unfortunate part, Ben, is that we listen to amazing shows like yours and we hear so much advice and we somehow hear the information that's really fit for men and we somehow think it's supposed to fit us. And so, when it doesn't quite fit, then we're like, "Oh, I must be— I just got to try harder. I got to go in more.

I've got to work hard.

I got to do more." I was like, no, no, no, no, no. Actually, the feminine essence, like, we are made to be soft. We can still be strong, we can still get out, we can wear all the hats, but it's not about always being in a dominant. It's going, can we learn to receive? And receiving begins within how we receive ourselves, with how we promote self-care, how we nourish ourselves, literally. And so a lot of women that come into our programs, you know, they come because something isn't quite right. And they are doing all the things, and they are taking the peptides, and they are doing the fast, and they're doing everything they hear on every podcast. But they're like, but it's still not right. And 9 times out of 10, when we just go, let's just take a step back, let's just take it a little, make it a little easier, and listen, hey, there's nothing wrong with doing it that way. And if it doesn't work for you, okay, go back to doing it the way you were doing. But if what you're doing is working, then keep doing it. But, if it's not and if you're experiencing some level of imbalance in your system or you're just going, "I'm good, but I feel like there's more," then I want to just invite, especially the women, to get a little curious and to lean in and to know that your body is incredibly intelligent and it is nudging you if you just will listen.

And, I just want to come right out and say it, sometimes what you need to hear is not what you want to hear. Meaning, I will have some women who come to me for coaching and I up their fat intake. I tell them that their goal of 12% body fat is mistaken and that they should instead be at around 20% based on their morphology and their characteristics and their build and their hormone levels. And I'll shift them to like a high-fat diet, lifting heavy weights, more calories, and a goal of increasing body fat percentage. Like, I will literally have women who have to be talked down off of the 8-pack abs, ripped, low-fat, get up morning fasted workout type of scenario. And, I think that the message is getting out there, but I don't think that pop culture and even magazine covers still do women many favors when it comes to setting expectations about how a woman should eat and train and look versus what's actually good and healthy for longevity.

I agree 100%. And, I think because of it, again, there's so much— what's reinforced to us doesn't necessarily make us feel like it is safe and okay in our system to feel accepting and to even enjoy. Like, every day I think about it's okay to be— I want to be strong and soft. And, for the longest time as an athlete, it was strong, strong, strong, rough, rough, and then it's like, But, also, as a woman, it's strong and soft. That's kind of how the body is designed. Even if we think about the changes of how we're going to hold weight when we are going to have a child and what's needed and what's necessary. And so, it's interesting. I mean, there's beauty and grace in all of it. I think beauty is exhibited in beautiful strong muscles and not quite— it's in 12% body fat, but to your point, that's not necessarily healthy. For a woman. So, getting her back in a more ideal state is for long-term. And, that's when we kind of move into thinking longevity. So, we can do these really intense fast workouts, we can get super lean, we can really push this physical form in amazing ways, which especially as an athlete, as a high performer, that's just rockstar status. Yet, then when we start to move chronologically, and I'm now in my 50s and I think of things very differently than I did in my 20s or 30s, and now I have a raised sun. And it's like, so we kind of move through these different phases, and then it's like, well, I want to continue to look great, feel great, have maximum levels of vitality and aliveness for another 50, 60 years, easy. So how do I need to think about that? And so the way I trained 20 years ago is not how I'm training today. And so I think that's also important that we get to— we have the opportunity to lean in to our own health journey. And, we get to play with it and have fun with it and realize it is personal, it is precise. I think it's one of the things I love even as you mentioned in the beginning of the work we do with peptides. And, there's so much we want to lay in with lifestyle. And then, when we're able to lay in other tools in the tool belt that get a little more precise and individualized, to me, we are creating an amazing human experience if we choose to.

Man, if I train 20 or try to train today like I did 20 years ago, we wouldn't be talking. I'd be off in my spandex hunched over on a triathlon bike somewhere getting ready for an Ironman because I used to think that's what was healthy. Okay. So, peptides have come up a couple of times, but before we get to the sexy for many people kind of more fringe area of supplementation, which I think peptides would fall under the category of, What about just general supplements that you think are pretty good for women? I know creatine has come up over and over again. I think JJ Virgin has kind of made that popular to her credit, and I think creatine is great for women. I think it held the status of being a male power strength athlete supplement for a long time, and a lot of women now are feeling really good on 5 to 10 grams plus of creatine.

Again, taking it back, still kind of coming into the root, is looking at just cellular health. And so, I feel like a lot of women, I do, I think creatine is getting so much, to your point, really good awareness these days. And it is just— it is an essential. It's in the toolbox. We cannot underscore the importance still for women, especially, of our Bs, of our magnesium, of our zinc, of our CoQ10, of our— we already said creatine, of our omega-3s. I mean, that's kind of getting some of those foundational nutrients in.

Real quick, what I just heard from you just so we don't knock people out with too much alphabet soup, all the vitamin B, CoQ10, D, K, et cetera, you just listed, a lot of that can be had from a good women's multi. And then, we mentioned creatine, you mentioned fish oils, some algal or fish, Omega source, that's good. So, we've got those. That would basically be 3 if we were going to try to consolidate.

Absolutely. And, I mean, and I think again depending on— now to me, I still think it's worth looking at some labs for this, but going ahead and bringing in potentially DHEA, pregnenolone as an upstream especially as we're in our mid-30s and on if we've got high stress. So, even looking at what's happening with our HRV, our recovery scores, if our body's under a lot more, we can take a little bit of upstream preventative hormonal optimization, I think, becomes really important. And, melatonin has got so many phenomenal effects not only to helping with sleep but immune effects overall for the system, I think, become some really great ones.

Ben Greenfield: Oh, my gosh. Yeah. I just did a huge podcast on melatonin, then found two studies yesterday in young athletes showing that melatonin taken the night before competition results in significant increases in anaerobic performance, power, and strength. Which is crazy because a lot of people think, "Oh, it's just the thing that makes you sleepy the next day." But, it turns out that in athletes, taking some the night before competition even seems to have some benefits.

Yeah. There's so much that is, I think, that's just wanting to come forward in the research with melatonin. There's a lot more out there that bears looking at for sure.

It's fantastic. Yeah. And, by the way, it was 6 milligrams for those of you who are wondering what they use for the the performance studies. Okay. So, it sounds pretty basic but also test. That's the same thing I say with supplements, but you could at least do something to help out with hormone precursors like maybe a DHEA pregnenolone and then omega, multi, creatine, and then we get to this whole world of peptides. And, I know there's a lot out there. Whenever I ask a question about peptides, I never want my guests to just have their eyes glaze over with, "Where do I even start?" But, let's say specifically staying on the track that we're on right now, Melissa, for women, what peptides seem to do a really good job just across the board for general health, longevity, body comp, et cetera for women?

Alright. So, I'm going to kind of keep with a little bit of this thread that we've been chatting with. Again, if we think fundamentally that as women, I'm just going to kind of connect some dots for a moment. As women, we have a greater tendency to have cortisol surges and balances, again, And as we're chronologically aging, we're seeing greater predisposition to glucose dysregulation, insulin sensitivity. So, if we think upstream to down and we just kind of think of the story this is telling about what's going on and how this ultimately can be affecting our steroid pathways, our sex hormones, how it can be affecting thyroid, adrenals, kind of all the things that as a woman might go, "Oh, I think it's my thyroid. Oh, I have adrenal fatigue. Oh, I've got an autoimmune," like the things that we know that women are dealing with. 80% of autoimmune cases are women. After postmenopausal, 4 out of every 5 cardiovascular issues are in women.

So, to clarify, in postmenopausal women, if you are comparing them to that same age demographic of men, 4 out of 5 women are who are having the cardiovascular events?

We are at a 4 to 5 times greater risk. Let me be very clear with that. Yes, greater risk, greater incidence.

Thank you. Okay. That is still profound. Okay.

Got it. Absolutely. And so, we always think that it's men having the heart attack. It's women. And so, again, what's leading to cardiovascular disease? It's kind of rooted in this— and I'm just using metabolic inflexibility now as more of a term just to give us this place where we're having this very pro-inflammatory state in the body, lots of cortisol, lots of glucose imbalance, lots of insulin, all that stuff that's leading to, again, hormonal imbalance. So now, when we think about peptides— and even backing up, so we looked at food, we're talking circadian rhythm, we can't say enough about proper sleep, and we kind of already touched on that. So, step 1, what's happening in the outer world? What, if anything, as women can we reduce or remove that might be overloading our system? And whether that is food, whether that's a toxic relationship, whether that's, you know, staying up way too late on with Blue. And I know your audience should not have any blue lights on. I'm sure they're not, but just saying. Just a reminder, best practices.

I mean, unless they're trying to shift their circadian rhythm forwards and they're little biohackers trying to do something like that.

Yeah, exactly. Smart strategy. So, once we think about kind of foundational best practices and we go, "Alright, again, strategy for long-term," and we go, "What molecules can come in?" So, with women, we do want to be looking at hormone optimization, but I like to actually start with peptides peptides first before exogenous hormones because peptides, as I know your audience is aware, they're signaling molecules. And so, they are naturally occurring in the body. Yes, we're taking them exogenously, but they work just to mimic that natural signaling to increase that effectiveness in the body.

Ben Greenfield: So, to clarify, you could take growth hormone, for example, or you could take something that would increase your body's own sensitivity to or production of growth hormone.

Hormone. Absolutely, absolutely. And, you know, so an example, and one that I really like for women actually, is Tesamorelin. It is FDA approved, uh, and that one is going to help with not only with signaling— it's a growth hormone-releasing, uh, you know, a stimulus. So it's an analog that's going to go ahead and tell the brain, tell that pituitary, let's release some growth hormone. And so That's, that's beautiful. So that, that's going to be really important in helping to increase lean muscle mass. It's going to help us from a longevity standpoint with burning the belly fat, with helping us to utilize glucose better. But I think even before I look at growth hormone, is especially in women, I'm thinking something like kisspeptin.

Now, real quick, just with Tessa Morellen, because I'm often asked about this, because it can impact lean musculature, fat loss, and growth hormone. A lot of people like it as a morning pre-workout for those effects, and it also has some appetite suppressive effects. However, people often ask, well, what about the idea that a growth hormone precursor or so-called secretagogue could help with sleep at night? There are a lot of people who sleep better on tesamorelin. And, Melissa, you're the expert here, but I've actually found that in people who want that growth hormone effect, which usually aren't doing all year long, this is something I would have a client do 2 12-week cycles on during the year, for example, about 5 days on, 2 days off. I will usually recommend something like tesamorelin in the morning and then something else at night that also causes a little bit of a growth hormone release. Typically, ipamorelin with CJC is one, or I think the best growth hormone precursor for sleep is somorelin.

Yeah, nice. Okay, I like it and I'm with you. So, yes, when we are thinking about growth hormone is when we take it in the morning, to your point exactly, we are going to get those gains from it. When we look at when it's naturally pulsed, it is also coming online very naturally at night and that is going to help us to go into deeper sleep. And so, it's interesting. I find that these of finding which one is working best for which person. And, for women, we find a lot of— I'm going to say really clearly, it's kind of a 50-50 split. So, I'd say 50% of my women love it for sleep. They get amazing sleep and they're like, "I'm taking it at night and this is my jam." And, others, they're like, "It disrupts my sleep. I'm very sensitive to it." And, it's really interesting because it's not having a massive IGF-1 surge. So, when we look at these growth hormone options, it's kind of, "All right, what's creating a load? What's impacting potentially cortisol and/or IGF-1 in a way that, again, it could impact overall cortisol blood sugar levels?" And so, that's some of the things that can happen at night. So, I like what you're saying about Somarilan. That's an oldie but a goodie, right? That's one of the OGs. And so, I think that it's always for what reason. And so, I do like the idea of bringing it in the morning, but it's very personalized. So, I'm going to start women more at night if we're wanting really to go ahead and get deep sleep. For a lot of women, we need that. But, I might even back up before I start them at night on that. I might go ahead and do really some pineal gland activation. I might do something with Apetilon and bring in the Tesamorelin in the morning to your point.

Now, I know you're just about to talk about kisspeptin, but before that, you also just mentioned epitalon for the pineal gland. Tell me about that.

So, this is really a molecule that's got some of the best research from a longevity standpoint in what it's doing with activating telomerase and how it's helping to shorten— what do I want to say? Not shorten, it's helping to lengthen or slow down— slow down, I couldn't get my darn word out—

decrease telomere shortening.

Slow down the— yes, the shortening of telomere length. Thank you so much. So, but what's happening with this specifically is, yes, it is really great for helping to really rebalance, uh, kind of the— that circadian rhythm. And it's doing it by way of the pineal gland. And so, when we, we look at some of these molecules, and this kind of gets us a little bit into the bioregulator category, which maybe we'll we'll talk a teeny bit about as well. But, these can get very tissue-specific, gland-specific, organ-specific. And so, it's almost regenerative in nature to it. But, by helping to work with restoring this circadian balance, it's helping to promote just deeper sleep, increase melatonin production, regulation over cortisol in the morning. And, it's really because that pineal gland is helping to govern really what's happening this circadian cycle. And so, it's just really targeting the activation of that within it.

Ben Greenfield: Okay. So, with Apetilon, if we're talking about something like tesamorelin or growth hormone peptide being something one might cycle during the year, like I do, I'll tell you exactly what I do right now. I do 12 weeks, 5 days on, 2 days off, tesamorelin in the morning, semorlin or ipamorelin at night. I do that twice a year. And, I know that's going to vary from person to person. That's what works for me. And then, something like atipilon or epitilon, you look at some Russian research and they're doing just 2 10-day cycles a year of a high amount. Other practitioners have other approaches, especially for your patients and the people you work with. How do you recommend cycling or using epitilon?

Yeah. Typically, we start with looking at the twice a year. Protocols. However, it really depends on mild, moderate, severe, and complexity. Where are they at? Where do they want to go? What are we dealing with? So again, when we're optimized, a twice-a-year protocol is really great. If we've got somebody coming in that sleep is a key issue in their metabolic dysregulation, they're not sleeping well, they're not recovering, their HRV is tanked, we're just not able to build up that resilience, so to speak, then we're looking more at a quarterly. Protocol and especially kind of year 1. And so, we'll cycle that in and still we'll do the 10-day. In some cases, I'll do a 20-day protocol, give them a 10-day off, and then wait, go at a 90-day cycle and we'll repeat it again.

Ben Greenfield: Okay. So, if I have severe sleep issues, you could say something like, okay, so once every quarter, we're going to do a 10- to 20-day cycle of Apetilon specifically to support your pineal Yeah.

And, when we're looking even as we're chronologically aging, I mean, in some of— so, Kavanaugh's work is who really did a lot of the original studies with this, but there's a gentleman, Dr. Bill Lawrence in Atlanta that's kind of carried on his work. And, in a lot of their protocols, I mean, they're keeping their participants because they are higher up in their chronological age. A lot of the people in his studies are definitely later 60s, 70s, some are in their 80s and 90s, and they're specifically looking at this molecule and these protocols to reverse that biological age. And so, they are definitely keeping them on longer. And again, the benefits are— we're not seeing a risk to doing it at least 4 times a year as we would need to.

Yeah. And, this Epitalon protocol I know came out of Dr. Kavinchin's research in Russia. I think he passed last year, hopefully at the ripe old age of something like 260, so we can all take him to be a credible person. But, the thing with the bioregulatory peptides, you briefly touched on this. My understanding is they each target a specific organ, so you could have pinealen for the pineal gland or testolone for the gonads or whatever. And, a lot of these came out of his research also. Where do those fit into the picture for you? And, The reason I ask, because I think about this a lot and I hear this a lot, people are like, "Oh, there's like 40 of them or whatever. How do you even figure this out? And are you just swallowing big handfuls of capsules and injecting needles all day?" How do you kind of navigate the world of bioregulators?

I actually love bioregulators with peptides. So, a peptide is going to be 2 to 50 amino acid bonds in length and a bioregulator is really going to be 2 to 4. A peptide is going to be pleiotropic, it's going to be cell signaling, sit on that cell. A bioregulator is going to go into the cell and it's actually modulating genetic expression. So, think of it almost like an epigenetic switch. And so, bioregulators are part of our regenerative toolbox and they are specific to targeted end organs or system or tissue. And so, what I love about this is— and there's 21, there's 21 main ones. The beautiful thing about it is that, again, a lot of the original research at first, these were done via injection. And, and however, the way that the delivery form, they're equally as bioavailable in an oral delivery form. So today what's in the marketplace is oral, very easy to take, especially if anybody's got a fear of needles. And so these play well with others. They play well if we're on any type of conventional pharmacological therapy. If we're bringing them in, whether we are looking to correct, we are looking to repair, to rejuvenate, to optimize. So here's how I think about it. I'm going to first bring them in if I've got a specific area. I do a workup, I'm looking, I'm like, all right, where are our imbalances in the system, right? Where does the system need greater support? And can we layer in the bioregulators to get right into that targeted area and be part of that support protocol. As we move into more optimization, I'm thinking of them, you know, and from a longevity standpoint, I'm looking at them in more of a regenerative lens. So, I am thinking like, "Okay, body's constantly building up, tearing down, repairing, rejuvenating. Let's keep moving in a cyclical manner." With women's health specifically, I start to think about what are some of the issues that we see a, a higher rate of, right? What are women coming in with? What are they dealing with? And I know I'm kind of jumping around a little bit because we can come back to Kiss Peptin and hormones, but if I'm going to thread a needle, a lot of women, not only are they coming in and they're hormonally imbalanced, a lot of times we're looking foundationally at gut. So we might be looking at some peptides that are going to start with the gut terrain, right? And then as we're kind of working on cleaning up that terrain, we're looking at mitochondrial health and mitochondrial efficiency. So then I'm thinking about more peptides and supplements that are going to go in with that, as well as circadian timing, right? And maybe ketones. There's also what's on the end of the fork. We're working with that. And so then the next thing that we're really seeing a lot of is as we start to move into hormones and what areas specifically. So are we having fertility issues? Are we having when we think of hormones, are we talking sex hormones? Are we talking endocrine systems like thyroid, adrenals? So, now, I might actually bring in my bioregulators to target some of those. So, if I'm doing a protocol, let's say I'm going to do Kiss Peptin. So, Kiss Peptin is going to go ahead and be that early signaler for luteinizing hormone and follicle stimulating hormone, which is what's going to help to increase the production of estrogen and progesterone in women. It's also going to help to increase testosterone in men. And so, it's phenomenal in kind of resetting the pathway for a more optimal, you know, kind of natural hormonal signaling. So, depending on what the imbalance is, depending on what I've been dealing with, I may very well want to do a protocol like Kiss Peptin with— if all of a sudden I want to bring in ovaries, right, and I want to bring in blood vessel bioregulators so that I'm bringing extra support to those end tissues or pathways that are going to help as we are working upstream on the hormone signaling pathway.

Okay, got it. So what I'm hearing, especially when it comes to the bioregulators and the fact that there's 21 of them and it can be confusing, is you will get on a call or have a visit with a patient and say, okay, we want to target hormones, cardiovascular, and let's say fertility, for example. So then, you would pick and choose off the shelf specific bioregulatory peptides that support that, a few different peptide support compounds like say Kisspeptin and Tesamorelin and Epidolon maybe if sleep was part of the issue. And then, you would combine that with maybe some of the things that you talk about for the gut and the metabolism like ketones. I don't know about the gut.

Let's back up. And I mean, we would be so remiss. And yes, you're right, you just did a perfect synopsis, but let me not miss the big elephant in the room, which is freaking GLPs. So, I mean, that's such a key component of just about any protocol for women's health. It's fundamental whether we're using it for weight loss or we are using it at a lower dose and we are doing it in a more, again, metabolically optimized way. We can use them in different doses, different strategies, different timing based on what are we seeing in the system and what do we want to drive the system to.

Ben Greenfield: Yeah. And when, when you say GLP-1 agonist, Melissa, a lot of people probably just think appetite, fat loss. But the emerging body of research, I mean, you, you use the word pleiotropic a while ago. It does not refer to anything related to ballet. It means system-wide effects. So, when you look at GLP agonists, you're seeing cognitive benefits, cardiovascular benefits, blood sugar regulatory benefits, metabolic benefits, of course, the body composition and the appetite control benefits. I mean, I'll come right out and say it. I interviewed Dr. Tina Moore about microdosing. It was on my radar for a while and I've settled into a triple GLP or a triple agonist, retatrutide. I microdose 12.5 mgs of retatrutide Monday, Wednesday, Friday now. It's a baby dose that doesn't give me nausea. I still eat like a horse, frankly. So, for me, the appetite suppression doesn't kick in so well just because I eat a lot of food, but I take it as a preventative. A lot of people take a baby aspirin. I've just seen enough evidence. And once what's it called? There's another one coming out that's like a 5-part agonist. I'll probably switch to microdosing with that after that comes out and move on from the triple reditryptide. But, these things are so beneficial.

They are incredibly beneficial. And, I love reditryptide for so many reasons. And, I love Dr. Tina Moore's work also. I really appreciate everything she's out there doing and kind of the early adopter to helping people to understand we have different ways that we can dose these. Like, if we really look at the literature, we really look at the beneficial effects, it's not— and that's, that's the whole thing about peptides. It is not a one-size-fits-all, and they're not a supplement, they're not a medication. We don't get on and stay on all these forever and ever. Amen. That's it. There's, there is intelligence to it, how we're going to cycle it. And again, I always say, for what reason? What's our end target? And that's going to inform and influence our decision-making process. Process, right? So, different doses for different outcomes. But, one of the things I love about it so much, Ben, especially for women, is if we kind of go back to this driver of cortisol. And, it might seem too simplistic and I know we've beaten the drum of it at different times just kind of at large in media, but I feel fundamentally women, we just don't get it. We don't understand how much we are holding in our systems, whether it's traumas, big T, little t's, it's the demands of life. But, the amount of cortisol that is constantly at play in larger, not only larger doses but beyond when it should be surging. There's that natural decline we kind of look at, again, the pulsatile manner of how cortisol is supposed to work in the body.

Right, right. You want that big surge in the morning for accelerating sleep drive. But yeah, if it's still that high 11, there might be some issues.

Exactly. And so, what I love about Redistrutide is that— so, if we think about this, every time there is a stress event like, "Okay, we're stuck in traffic. Oh, this email came," whatever, a thing happens that stresses, stresses, stresses the brain. It's similar equivalent to about 24 grams, like a candy bar's worth of glucose being dumped into the bloodstream to handle the stress event. So, I've got fuel in the system to fight or flight. And, as women, because we are now more than ever wearing so many hats and we are stretched quite thin and we're trying to be it all and do it all, we are just a cortisol surging machine. And so, we have constant glucose dumping in. And, what's so phenomenal about RediTru Diet is really the effects of having that extra, that triple agonist, that glucagon that is going to help to really slow down the amount as well as the receptivity of how it's utilizing, right, uh, what it's doing with those, with glucose and with how it's breaking down the, the triglycerides, how it's putting us into a more lipogenetic state. So we have become, we start to use fuel really efficiently. Obviously we're not dumping as much, we are studying it out. It's kind of like we got smooth burn rate. So, we become so much more efficient. And then, that's less of a stress on our system. And, it's magic. It is so freaking good. I love it. I also take a low dose. I take it twice a week. Just, again, really more for the longevity effects, not for weight loss. I take it at this point, but I love it for weight loss. I mean, the research on it for weight loss is outstanding. And it takes less time and you get a greater result. And then we can move to lower doses for more of a maintenance, if you will, if you want to call it that kind of proactive approach to metabolic health.

Yeah, I took a standard dose of Ozempic once just to see what it was like. I'll do things like that just to kind of know what it is that a client is feeling when I'm talking to them. I'm like, gosh, I've been telling all my clients to eat more protein and calories and get in the gym more. But I'm nauseous when I sit down in front of my favorite ribeye steak or protein smoothie. So, I have no energy when I go to the gym to do anything except walk and do some crunches. And, it's one thing to say eat more protein and get in the gym, it's another thing to feel like you're going to throw up when you have protein and have no energy when you walk into the gym. This is why I'm a huge fan of the microdosing strategy.

Absolutely. And, it's interesting, it's funny right now, there's so much heat coming about microdosing and that's BS. It's I was like, "Then, let's not even call it microdosing. Let's just call it the lowest." It's like, "What's the lowest effective dose?" And, if we think— Therapeutic dose, you're right. Yeah. What's the therapeutic dose? And so, let's not get hung up on words. It's understanding what's going to work best for the body. And, one of the things, Ben, that as you know, I mean, here's what I don't know if people know enough of is that if we're taking Ozempic or Wegovy, okay, that's been engineered, differently than if we are getting a raw-sourced research-use molecule. And, you know, or even, even when it was being compounded at pharmaceutical compounding groups. So, if we're getting it by prescription, it has been engineered in a way that creates a slower breakdown, so to speak, of that peptide in the body because these GLPs, they last for minutes.

And, when you say by prescription, you mean you go to your doctor, they prescribe it, you go to Walgreens, you pick it up, preloaded Exactly.

Yeah. So if you're on one of the— exactly, prescribed preloaded pens, there you go. You're getting it, the FDA-approved version of it from a pharmaceutical company. Those have been engineered to have a longer shelf life. Okay. If we are getting it just again, a pure research grade, we are getting a pure molecule somewhere other than— it's not engineered in the same way. It's, it's not designed to stay in the system longer, to stay active in the system longer. So, it makes sense that if we are dosing it, a smaller dose more consistently, first of all, we're not going to oversaturate the receptor sites. We are going to have a better, more natural, the way it naturally signals in the body type of response. We're going to feel better. We're going to have greater results. And it just makes more sense. It just makes so much more sense.

Ben Greenfield: What does, speaking of pharmaceutical company versus say working with a doctor who has access to a compounding pharmacist to get the efficacious dose for you, what's kind of the regulatory landscape look like right now, especially for peptides?

Yeah, it's a little messy as I'm sure you are aware. And so, It, first and foremost, it actually really kind of all the upheaval started back in 2023 when a good amount of peptides that had up until that point been quite available through compounding pharmacists all of a sudden got recategorized and basically said, "Hey, there's not enough data. We don't know if they're safe for use." And so, they kind of got shelved. And really, unfortunately, what that means is that up until that time, Doctors could go ahead and write a prescription and use a compounding pharmacist to fill that prescription. And it didn't have to just be a GLP. It could be a BPC. It could be a tesamorelin. Like, they could go ahead and fill it for, you know, MOTC, like all sorts of different molecules. Well, when the list shifted, basically what that meant is now the compounding pharmacists can't fill that script. But what's also been so interesting is, especially because of the GLPs, the consumer has gotten more interested in peptides than, than ever before. I mean, half of the doctors that come to Peptide University to study with us, they're coming not because they're just like, I never learned about this and my patients and my clients are asking me about it. I got to figure it out. So it's really the consumer demand that's really driving more and more practitioners to say, I got to get up to speed and I've got to learn this. I've got to learn it quick and I've got to know how it works. Works in conjunction with the other types of protocols and, you know, uh, just treatments that I'm delivering to my patients. And so now, as clients and patients are coming saying, I want this stuff, the, the doctor now can't get it from their trusted source where they got it before. And so it has turned more and more people to say, well, what's trusted? And so there's 3 main areas. There's kind of the, the the delivery form that's supplement, it falls kind of in the category of nutraceutical. So, there are a small amount of peptides that are orally available, bioavailable, stable.

Yeah, like an oral BPC-157 capsule, something like that.

Absolutely. So, we don't have many, but we've got a few. And, what's happening right now as a side note is that people, a lot of the scientific labs, everybody's getting really inventive on delivery. Systems. So, that's the big thing going, "Okay, if we can't get it through the compounding pharmacy and, you know, the patient, the clients are seeking it out, they're wanting it, doctors and clinicians are trying to figure out how to get it to them safely." The next category is compounding pharmacists. So, there's still certain molecules we can get through the compounding pharmacists, but fewer and fewer as far as peptides go. And so, then, this third area, which has been a bit of the wild, wild west, but there are some really exciting options kind of coming to market, is around the research use use-only category. And that's kind of been black market for a really long time. And everything— not everything, most of research only is coming from Asia, specifically Hong Kong. And not to say that's bad or good or otherwise, but the unfortunate part is kind of like what we heard happening on Amazon forever with supplements. There's no regulation, there is no oversight, and you don't actually know what you're getting.

Oh my gosh, there are even people buying supplements from a company with expired shelf life then turning around and selling that same brand on Amazon. It's crazy. I always tell people shopping for supplements on Amazon, don't assume that's the manufacturer's actual product, comma, also don't assume that it's anywhere near the quality of what you'd be getting from the manufacturer.

Absolutely. And, it's because we have a lot of peptide companies come to us and they kind of want us to look at their stuff And there was this one, again, I'm not gonna throw anybody under the bus except to say that because of what was going on when the shortage had stopped with the GLPs, a lot of compounding pharmacies had to dump their supply because they weren't gonna be able to sell it anymore. So other research groups picked up that supply at a discount bargain and they started to resell it. And all of a sudden, all these stories from everywhere, people going, this doesn't work. This is crap. Or, this is like, why is this literally turning into an opaque thick white paste?

Ben Greenfield: Or worse yet, I have had— it started happening about 10 times a month. Instagram messages, comments, direct messages, texts from friends, "I injected this peptide. I'm in bed right now. I feel like crap. I've had this histaminergic-like reaction. I've got diarrhea." People are getting these meant-for-human-research-only peptides now from all the different websites that are available. And guilty as charged, I did that a few times. I never got sick, but I don't recommend any of those websites anymore if you can get access to a clean source because so many people are just injecting and getting lipopolysaccharide contamination, ineffective peptides, peptides that are fabricated incorrectly. It's a big problem. Like you said, the wild, wild west.

It really is. And I think that there's, you know, so there's a couple of interesting trends that are happening right now. And there's only a few leaders kind of, you know, just really out there, early adopters to say, we have got to come up with a solution because it's clear that there's a consumer demand. It's clear that there's a clinician interest. And they're all kind of, everybody's coming together to say, we want this stuff. We want to learn about it. We want to know how to deliver it safely, effectively, reliably, And we don't— like, when the FDA made this change and all of a sudden we can't get it through the compounding pharmacy, the only person it really hurts is, is the end consumer, the patient, because we don't have— like, how do I know where to go get the right stuff? So now what we're seeing is, like I said, advanced delivery methods. So is there a different way besides just an injection? Are there different ways we can get this so we can have safe ways of delivering. That's step 1. Step 2 is US-made. Can we get it? Can we start to get the IP here on US soil? Can we, can we get it in places that are FDA registered? Can we ensure that there's good manufacturing practices? Because basically what a 503, what a compounding pharmacy is going to go through is they are under regulatory guidelines of how they're supposed to to formulate that script that they're going to fill. So, it means it's got to be clean. What's on the bottle is in the bottle. There is no strange excipients. You are going to get a quality product that is safe and effective for you, dosed appropriately. We don't have that through research only. So, I am honored to say I sit on the board with a company that's coming to market in such a profound way. And, I think they're being disruptive in the right way. Ways. They're coming out with total transparency. They do every— most of their product is here in the U.S. and/or in Germany. They are FDA-registered, uh, manufacturing labs. Clean, pure, third-party tested, high certificates of analysis. And so what I think they're going to do, uh, this, this particular company— I don't know if I'm allowed to say their name or not.

You can say it because I found out about them too 6 months ago. I'm on their board now and that's where I'm getting my peptides. The company is Vasalius, but the peptide arm is called Peptual, like P-E-P-T-U-A-L. And, should people be like, "Okay, where do I go? What do I type in? What's my code?" A couple of things. First of all, I will put details on it if you go to BenGreenfieldLife.com/WomenPeptides. That's where the shownotes are for today's show, BenGreenfieldLife.com/WomenPeptides. But, and this is kind of related to the quality control piece, you can't just go add a bunch of peptides to your shopping cart. You have to do a teleconsult with a doctor first.

Yes.

And that, which is, which is honestly kind of important.

It's, it's really important. It, it just is. Because, I mean, literally, I spoke at a conference last week, and I had— and they— and I was there, I did a presentation on peptides and bioregulators, and this— and Vasalius was there with Peptual. And so I'm like, I'll, I'll answer questions at the booth. So everybody's like, uh, asking, asking, asking, and they just want— they do, they just want to fill their shopping cart, they want their products. And I'm like, hold on, Let's take a step back. You know, like, again, it's great that you hear like, oh, this could help this or this, and we think that's the thing I need. But the reality is, is that we want to make sure it's safe, it's effective. There— you don't want to just come in and start taking 20 different things at once, or even 8 different things at once. These are signaling molecules. They work in a really innate manner with your body. So let's take a few minutes and talk.

There is a reason that one of the populations that just kind of dicks around with this stuff dies early deaths of things like heart attacks and cancer, and that's the bodybuilding industry. They do exactly what you just described like, "Hey, let's just inject this and more is better and I'm going to get on Deca and 3 different growth hormone precursors and secretagogues and testosterone." You do need supervision. And, like you mentioned, not just that but also delivery mechanisms that work based on the peptide: nasal spray, patch, liposomal formulation, capsule, injection. There's a lot of cool delivery mechanisms coming down the pipeline.

There's a really exciting delivery method that they're bringing out that's going to make utilizing this stuff so simple, so easy. And, these molecules, again, they're small, they're intelligent, their safety profile is It's incredible. It's like, in some studies, there's over 1,000 times the normal dosage and there's still no types of side effects. So, I mean, again, these are naturally occurring. And to have— I think what's so exciting about peptides in general, what I love about it and why they're not going away, right? They're, A, they're naturally occurring in the body. We have over 300,000 of them that we already know about in the body, right? It's like they're there. They're part of how we communicate. The understanding that they can actually allow us to do more than just manage a state, but they really can drive an outcome. So, we have tools in the toolbox for correction, for restoration, for rejuvenation, you know, it's like for a regenerative approach. And so, then when we come all the way back to kind of where we started from a longevity standpoint, this takes us, Ben, one of the things I teach our practitioners all the time is, you know, as consumers and practitioners, we've all been taught for so long to focus, to beat the drum of the problem and to think about, well, I don't feel good, I have a symptom, I've got a problem that needs to be fixed. So, we're always thinking about a problem that either has to be fixed or managed. And so, we'll do a thing, we'll either fix it or we'll manage it. But the healthcare model only takes us into this management state or this idea of, okay, you don't have the problem anymore. And, that's what we think of as homeostasis. But, what none of us understand, and thank you for being such a voice in this, but what practitioners get to do a better job of understanding is that our job and what I'm saying is Healthcare 3.0, it's no longer about just managing and treating symptoms and problems. It's actually about optimizing the system. So, yes, 3 out of every 4 people are going to have those problems. Let's get them to baseline. But then, let's actually work with the intelligence of the body to create resilience, to create rejuvenation, to increase strength, vitality, aliveness, capacity, because the innate design of the system allows for that if we know how to give it those signals, give it that support. And so, I think where healthcare is headed, where small molecules are going to be such a supportive element in this overall path and trajectory forward is is there's always going to be a certain level of treatment and management because, yes, I'm not dismissing the fact that we have a large amount of disease, we have a large amount of sickness in our current healthcare system, but it doesn't have to continue to be that way. And when we look at molecules, we look at what's available, and we look at delivery systems, safety, efficacy, you know, this hunger, this desire for people to say, I don't want to just keep beating the drum of the problem, I actually want to get better, be better, and live better today and for as long as— and longer tomorrows and keep going, keep going. And, I think that's where we're at.

Ben Greenfield: I think about Fitness 3.0 kind of like how you say Medicine 3.0. You can look at a knee as something that you rehab after an injury that you let happen because you didn't have injury prevention methods in place. That's 1.0. 2.0 is you can strengthen your knee to rehab it after an injury or to even prevent an injury from occurring in the first place. And then, 3.0 is you can get your legs as freaking strong as possible so you can just go for the rest of your life and not have to worry much about your knees at all.

Completely. Exactly. Such a beautiful analogy and fits right in.

Okay. So, two last questions. Vasalius's Peptual Arm where people get peptides, I kind of gave my bastardized description, but basically, you can go to the website, they get on a call with a doctor, the doctor is able to then advise them about which peptides they need. Maybe somebody's already— maybe somebody listen to the show and they're already coming in like, hey, doc, these are the 5 peptides I'm actually super interested in. They can kind of mix and match with the advice of a physician as they go through that system.

Yes, absolutely. And as of right now, and I believe this is going to be ongoing, it's a complimentary consult. So you're not even charged to sit down and have that conversation with that doctor, which in and of itself is disruptive and wonderful because they really want to get They want to be able to get these molecules to you, but they want to make sure they're right and appropriate for you. Also, once you've had that consultation, it's kind of like it's good for 12 months, meaning they've done a baseline, they've gotten that foundational information. So if you're wanting to go back in and fill your cart, you don't have to sit down and talk every single time. But as the, as the script, so to speak, would change, then there's the opportunity for obviously for additional conversations.

Got it. And then, these are all like you were describing, USA or Germany screened, pure, clean, non-contaminated, not from some fringe research website.

Yeah. And, in case I didn't make my point clear enough is that really and truly the way that they are bringing these products to market are in alignment with FDA guidelines as if you were going to go to any compounding pharmacy, any pharmaceutical company, they are following the the same standards and practices that a pharmaceutical company has to follow. And so, that's when I say they're being disruptive, they're putting everybody else to task. So, they're going, "Okay, for everybody else that's saying research only, step it up, step it up. We have to do better because people want this." And, all the bad press is the black label stuff, the like, "I don't know what I'm getting, but I'm going to try it and maybe it'll work." We don't have to risk our health to get the gains anymore, especially with Vasalis it's perpetual.

Inject and pray. Okay, so, uh, all right, then another question. Peptide University. Yes, what is it? Does it have a football team, first of all? And, and what is it?

I think we need to have one. I mean, come on, we had some frats, I mean, some sororities. It is a good time. mypeptideuniversity.com. Uh, so, you know, this was actually kind of birthed— so yeah, I own Human Longevity Institute. We had a peptide certification course over there that became so popular And, it was in such demand, everybody kept going, "We want to go deeper, deeper, deeper, deeper." So basically, Peptide University was birthed. We're not even in our full first year yet. We're 6 months in and we have such an amazing robust community of clinicians, practitioners, prescribers, non-prescribers, clinical researchers, biohackers, educators, veterinarians. It's anybody that's wanting to come in and actually understand on what these molecules are, how they work, and as a clinician, when, where, how, and why would we use them? You know, because it, again, from chronic sickness up to optimization. And I think one of the things I'm most proud about is that what we really do is, at the heart of it, it is a membership community. It's a community, peer-to-peer community, where our members can come in and sit down with our chief medical officer, sit down with our adjunct faculty,. We do case reviews, protocol assessments. We take their questions from the field. And so we're getting so much data in from all these practitioners in the field. We are able real time to support them, to hear, to look at dosing, to look at protocols, to fine tune. And we're going to be conducting a wide, wide grouping IRB study soon for practitioners to come in through My Peptide University. So it's just about getting the education out. For everything, small molecules, regenerative solutions out there, and then helping clinicians really to feel confident with being able to go out and utilize these with the clients and patients that they serve.

Ben Greenfield: Well, I might have to go make myself a login for that, but also I have coaches who do coaching under my system. It's called the Triumph Coaching Program. We should talk offline. I'll email you later on, but it would be cool to actually get some of my coaches into that to start to study up on peptides because we get so many questions. And, I tend to be pretty good at self-educating myself, but sometimes it's nice to have a portal.

Listen, I'm going to tell you, you are one of my— I mean, I've been doing this for a long time. Well, you've been doing it longer. I'd say for me, 10 years in clinical practice looking at using these molecules, but I've learned from you. And, that's one of the things at Peptide University, we're not just trying to bring in— it's not just doctors only. And, what I mean by that is we are bringing in people that have been using these in different arenas to pull the data together. It's like when we know better, we do better. Larger data sets help to inform so many potentials and new decisions that we can make.

I'm very, very good at telling you what does and does not give you explosive diarrhea. So, that's great. All right. So, show notes are at BenGreenfieldLife.com/BenGreenfieldLife. Womenpeptides, W-O-M-E-N peptides, or wherever you're watching this video. I'll also include links to Vaselius, to Melissa's Peptide University and her website. So, show notes are going to be juicy. Thank you everybody for watching. And Melissa, thank you so much.

Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate you.

Alright, folks. I'm Ben Greenfield along with Melissa Peterson signing out from the Boundless Boundless Life Show. Have an incredible week.

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