A Fresh Perspective on the Same Old Drama with Rebecca Carroll-Bell

Hello and welcome to Shedding the Bitch Radio, where you can discuss, debate, and get advice on how to discover and shed the bitches of fear, insecurity, self-doubt, and negative mindsets so you can realize your dreams and life purpose and create and accelerate the riches you want in life. Join us here live every Tuesday at noon Eastern and dialogue with us at 818-572-2910. You can also chat with us at blogtalkradio.com/sheddingthebitch or share your stories on our website at sheddingthebitch.com.

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Whatever the bitch is that's holding you back from living your life to the fullest, it's not worth giving up the riches in life that you deserve. So call in now and let Bernadette Boas know what's holding you back.

818-572-2910. Good day, good day, good day everyone, and Happy Thanksgiving to those of you celebrating this week. Uh, it is Bernadette Boas and it is Shedding the Bitch Radio, and I am so, so, so excited to be here for a whole number of reasons. One, to be with you and to kind of kick off our holiday season. Do you believe it? I cannot believe it is. It was one thing to know that it was Halloween because that kind of slowly, you know, creeps your head into the holiday framework. But now that it's Thanksgiving and soon to be Christmas and New Year's, I'm just a little overwhelmed with the whole thing. But I love the fact that I get to celebrate it with you all through the season because we don't take a— we don't take a hiatus. We're here every Tuesday at noon Eastern time. So I absolutely love that. And I just want to, you know, just do a shout out to all of you to say Have a fun, have a blessed, have a safe holiday season. And for those of you that are going to be devouring a lot of food this weekend, just wear stretchy pants. That's all I'll say, because that's what I plan to do. Which reminds me too, I want to do a shout out in case they're listening. I'm so excited. As many of you know, I have 11 brothers and sisters. And I am out of Philadelphia, my family is. I'm out of Atlanta, Georgia, which is absolutely gorgeous here today. Very exciting. It's finally cooled off, but it's like 70 and the sun's out. We need rain, but we'll get to that in a second. Anyway, so I typically do not go home Thanksgiving. I typically wait and celebrate Christmas, hoping that the majority of the kids, which are my brothers and sisters, majority of the kids are home. But this year, so this year I'm still here in Atlanta. Yet one of my sisters, Ann Marie, and her husband, Fran, are currently in their car driving down from— they live in Rehoboth, which is Delaware area. And they are on their way down to spend a long weekend with me. I'm so excited. When they said they were going to do it, I almost like broke down in tears. I was so excited. So I'll be with family. And hopefully you will be with ones you love. This weekend as well as all the way through the holiday season. And we're just going to make it as much fun and joyous and, you know, drama-free, which is a good segue into our conversation today, but we're not going to get there yet. So hold on. But I would like everybody also to say prayers for those of us— we do a lot of shoutouts to everyone else around the world, when they're dealing with crisis or tragedy. We in Georgia right now are quite in a dire situation.

Un—

you know, unfamiliar to us, we have some raging fires going on in North Georgia. Now, North Georgia— we're— Atlanta is in North Georgia, but the fire is probably a good 150, 200 miles away from us. And yet the amount of fires going on because of our droughts because of the dry, dry, dry season that we've had, is actually pushing all of that smoke and all of that risk down toward the metro Atlanta area. We're covered in smoke. It's not to the point you can't see in front of you. At the same time, if you looked over the skyline of the city, though, it's very foggy. Let's just say that. People, a lot of people, especially right now, are getting respiratory issues happening to them. So if you can all do a rain dance for us and just, you know, pray for anyone that, you know, is in need of some raindrops, we can certainly use them here in Atlanta, Georgia, and anywhere else that's dire. We're also in a drought situation, so we're having to cut back on, on watering and on really just excess youth, and hopefully it'll end soon. Let's just hope. December is normally a rainy season here. But a shout-out and some prayers going out to everybody who is, you know, just struggling right now as we go into this holiday season. We are certainly thinking about you here in Atlanta and in the Shed in the Bitch community for sure. All right. I had mentioned our conversation for today, and I don't want to spend too much time jumping into, or I don't want to waste too much time jumping into it. So this is what we're going to be talking about. I just mentioned that we want to kind of be a drama-free space here for you, and yet, and yet, we do need to deal with conflict, confrontation, some ugliness that we, you know, are faced with with, hopefully not every day, but some people are. And so I thought it would be really great to have the everyday mediator herself come and talk to us about how can you shed the fear, shed your angst, shed your avoidance bitches, and manage conflict easily. And in our guest's terminology or philosophy she has 3 steps for you that you're going to be able to consider and put into practice for you to be able to manage and mitigate and just navigate conflict and confrontation out of your life. Because many of us dread and avoid conflict. I don't know about you, but there's times I will. And we invest more time, energy, and stress in avoiding it than we do in dealing with it. Or you may be one of those who rush in headlong with no real strategy or plan, just a rush of emotion. Neither approach, according to our guest today, delivers positive outcomes or makes us feel any better. So if you feel you just don't know how to handle conflict and manage difficult people and you are looking for a simple formula or read map to show you how to face conflict in a calm, confident manner, then this is definitely the episode for you. So I want you to sit tight, even grab a pen and paper, although you can always come back and listen to the, to the program. But you're going to definitely want to take down a lot of what our— if not all of what our guest is going to be talking about. So what are you going to learn? You're going to learn how to manage conflict following a simple 3-step ESP formula. I'm very curious as to what that is. And how to respond to people who are talking a lot but not really saying anything. Ah, yeah, we love those folks. And then you're also going to learn using the ESP formula, you will discover how to break the repetition loop and move the conversation forward in a constructive way, how to buy yourself more time to think and respond to conflict and dispute situations. You're going to learn key words, which are critical, and phrases to avoid, and some great alternatives to use when you need to defuse a tense situation. All right, I want to see a show of hands as to who could use all of this great information. And then finally, sometimes you just have to walk away. Maybe your safety mentally, physically, holistically must be your highest priority and it's in jeopardy. So sometimes you just have to walk away. So learn when and how to walk away from conflict. So think through all of that as we go into a break, and then when we come back, we'll introduce our guests. But your rich question for today, now that you know what you're going to learn, now that you're thinking about how you might handle and/or avoid conflict, your rich question for today is: on a scale of 1 to 10— let's set ourselves up for going into this conversation— on a scale of 1 to 10, 10 being the best or the most effective, how do you handle conflict and confrontation? So 1 being you kind of like are, you know, making a dash for the door, or 10 that you do handle it and you plan and our guests will talk about all that that makes it a 10. So on a scale of 1 to 10, how are you? Hashtag with us on Twitter, Facebook, anywhere you'd like. Use hashtag conflict management. You can also use the hashtag shed the bitch. And we have Deborah out there, Deborah Parker of Parker House Virtual Services. She's out there. We're going to let her stay on mute because as we mentioned the last couple weeks, the girl is still sick. The girl is still not feeling well, and she actually sounds— I hope she sounds worse than she feels. So we're going to make sure that she's just able to kind of sit back She will be paying attention if you are conversing with us online and you want to talk with our guests and myself. And so Deborah Parker of Parker House Virtual Services, a shout out to her, hoping that she gets better and heals so she can enjoy a blessed Thanksgiving weekend as well. All right, we're going to take a brief break, and then when we get back, we're going to introduce our guest and learn where she's calling in from because she's far, far away. But we'll be right back.

You are listening to Shedding the Bitch Radio with Bernadette Boas. We are inspiring individuals around the globe to discover, confront, and shed their bitches of fear, insecurity, and negativity so they can create the riches in their career, business, and life they deserve. Be sure to check out Bernadette's books Shedding the Corporate Bitch: Shifting from Bitch to Rich in Life and Business. Available on Amazon and sheddingthebitch.com. We also want to thank our sponsors: TSR Consulting, who offers a broad range of tax services for small to corporate size clients. Go to TSRConsulting.com to learn more. And Parker House Virtual Services, who provides virtual assistants and social media support for small to medium size businesses. Email deborahparker@deborahparker78@gmail.com for more information. To become a sponsor or advertiser on our program, email us at mediarelations@sheddingthebitch.com. Shedding the Bitch Radio airs every Tuesday at noon Eastern time. Be sure to go to blogtalkradio.com/sheddingthebitchradio and follow the program for all of the updates and announcements of our guests and show topics. Now let's return to Bernadette and Shedding the Bitch Radio.

Welcome back everybody, we have a great show for you. Our guest Rebecca Carol Bell, the Everyday Mediator, is on a mission to help professionals, entrepreneurs, and corporate intrapreneurs increase their productivity and reduce their daily stress. Stress levels through the essential art of client management. Her latest book, Brief: The Essential Art of Client Management, shows young professionals how to deal with difficult, time-consuming, energy-zapping clients using the 5-step brief approach. A nationally accredited mediator and fully qualified lawyer, Rebecca worked her way up the corporate ladder as a successful litigation lawyer but was left wanting more. So in 2007— or I'm sorry, 2013, she left her coveted role as an in-house corporate lawyer to start her own boutique mediation practice. Here, this is going to give you a clue of where she's from. Australia's leading conflict resolution expert— she's right here— Rebecca is passionate about bringing mediation to the mainstream. She is driven to see mediation become as commonplace as engaging a financial planner, personal trainer, or as a business coach. While mediation and appropriate— I'm sorry, I'm talking too fast. While mediation and appropriate dispute resolution, known as ADR, are commonplace in the UK and USA, it is yet to take off in a big way in Australia. So when not writing books, conducting mediation, and generally helping people to identify, prevent, and manage conflict, Rebecca enjoys hanging out with her husband and their house rabbit, Indigo, who will star in her own line of books in 2017. Welcome to the show, Rebecca.

Thank you so much. Thank you for having me, Bernadette. I'm thrilled to be with you all.

We are too, thrilled to have you. And I actually, I need to see this rabbit.

That is absolutely amazing.

Adorable.

I tell you what, during the next break I will pop some pictures up on Twitter for you.

That is hysterical. Yes, would love it, would love it, would love it. Well, I am so glad you are calling. And are you in Australia? Are you home right now?

I am. I am at home in Melbourne, Australia which is in the southeast corner of Australia.

Sure, sure. Not many, I don't know. You know, many people might be able to like kind of identify Melbourne probably, maybe Sydney. Is that one of the cities?

Yep, so we're on the same coast as— yeah, yeah, we're on the same coast as Sydney, uh, and we are about an hour's flight south of Sydney, uh, and we're on the mainland just above Tasmania.

Oh, very nice, very cool, very cool. Well, I thought it was very interesting because I did want to, um, you know, with Thanksgiving, with the holidays coming, with family conflicts, or even because of our politics, you know, here in the States, which we will not talk about. But, you know, they're really kind of, um, safe— they're safeguarding and preparing a lot of, um, family members to kind of handle conflict and dispute during this volatile situation, you know, environment we have right now. So I, I— when I saw that there was this everyday mediator out there. I just thought that that was exactly what our Shading the Bitch community needed, needed to hear from, because it— we really do, as a professional and as an individual, we need to figure out how to simply handle difficult situations. But before we get into all of that, you were a lawyer for over 10 years. What prompted you all of a sudden to stop that and launch your own business? Because many people would sit there and say, wow, I'd love to, you live on a lawyer's salary, so to speak. Yeah, yeah.

And I look forward to once again bringing in that kind of salary through my business. But I am— I got into the law to help people. And what I was finding as a lawyer is that we're very focused on the law, which doesn't always mean we're focused on the person. So I was working— yeah, I was working in wills and estates. So when someone dies and then a member of the family family challenges the will, those are the types of cases I was working on. Ah, okay. And yeah, and I was finding that, you know, as lawyers we would say this is what will happen when you go to court, this is the type of orders the judge can give you. In mediation though, issues came up that were not within the scope of what the judge could say and do. So the judge could tell you how to divide up the assets of the deceased person, but the judge couldn't force your brother to apologize to you for not inviting him to your wedding. The judge couldn't, you know, sort out the fact that, you know, your mother never came to visit you in the hospital when you were having your babies, you know. And this stuff is really often at the heart of the dispute. So I was seeing, when I was going along as a lawyer representing representing one or other party, I was seeing siblings in their 50s and 60s who had not spoken to each other for 10 or 20 years talking to each other for the first time, exchanging phone numbers, saying, 'Is it alright if I call you? Is it alright if I send you a Christmas card?' And I began to see that really in the conflict resolution, the mediation and the conversations, that's where I can do the most to help people to put that conflict behind them and get on with a happier, healthier life.

Love it. Now, is that where the Everyday Mediator title came from? I mean, I absolutely love that. Where did that stem from? Hmm.

So I started out being very much a lawyer. My technical business name is RCB Mediation Services, which is short for Rebecca Carol Bell, because that's what lawyers— we— I don't know how it is in the States, but here we get called by our initials within your firm. You're often called by your initials. So everyone called me RCB, like I'd get notes, I'd get, you know, emails, and that was just the way it was. So, you know, I made that my business name. And a couple of years into my business journey, I was finding what people really wanted and needed to hear from me was everyday language, not jargon, not legalese.

Right.

And they didn't— they wanted— yeah, and they wanted help with everyday situations, not necessarily the going to court. I do help with going to court, I do help with going to mediation run by other mediators, but really what people were asking me about was, okay, we've, you know, in the case of family law, we've divorced, we've got the settlement, but now how do I co-parent? How do I see this person at family gatherings? In work situations. Yeah, how do I— don't, I don't want it to get to the court situation. How do I circumvent that? So I found that that's what people wanted. And so I became the everyday mediator using everyday language for everyday dramas.

We—

sweet. I love that. Because, and we're, you know, like I kind of said at the beginning, we want to create a drama-free area. So Rebecca will be our woman to everyone out there listening to this live or when you take us with you. And I do want to point out, everybody, if, you know, as we start talking, you're going to all of a sudden realize that you want to talk to Rebecca and you want to ask her questions and you're not listening live. So just make a note right now. I like to do this early so you can be going out and checking, you know, checking out Rebecca and making sure you know how to reach her. So first off, go to everydaymediator.com, www.everydaymediator.com, which is her website. Make note of her email address, rebecca@rcbmediationservices.com.au, everybody, because remember she's in Australia. And then she makes it easy for you as well. Facebook, Twitter, look, you can find— if you even just key in, which is what I did, RCB Mediation. Facebook will be RCB Mediation Services and Twitter will be RCB Mediation. So you can certainly reach out and touch her because I think you're going to start hearing, as she's already bringing up, that these are everyday situations and everyday conflict and confrontation and difficult situations that we all deal with that you need some support in. So let's, let's start with how do you describe or define mediation? What exactly is it that's different than something like litigation, for instance?

Yeah, so mediation is when you have an independent third party, the mediator, and they're sort of being the referee of the disagreement. Sometimes you'll have your lawyers there with you, and sometimes it'll just be the parties to the dispute. And one of the key things to understand, and I get this question so often, is you have one mediator for the whole dispute. So each person involved in the disagreement, they don't bring a mediator each. You have one person that you've agreed on who's going to stand in the middle and say, 'These are the rules we've agreed on, and now you've got to stick to them.' Right. So in mediation Yeah, so we have this process where we go from past to present to future. So we start with what has happened and how it made you feel. Then where are you now? And what are the consequences of what's happened or is happening? And then how would you like the future to be? And what can we do together to create that future or as close to that future as possible? So the goal is to resolve the dispute or the conflict by meeting at least some of everybody's needs and addressing everybody's interests. And that's where that stuff comes up that I was speaking about before that is sort of not usually technically legal argument, but it's very important to you as the individual.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I'm sitting here thinking to myself, gosh, wouldn't it be great? Now, you know, I can't even I can't even think of the last time I actually got into some heated argument with whomever, family member, friend, somebody at work. But having someone like yourself to kind of bring, you know, bring that issue to bear, so to speak, and address it in such a way that is, you know, okay, let's just simply look at the past, the present, and the future and see what we can do to resolve this, I think just allowed me to actually breathe while you were talking. I just actually took a deep breath to kind of say, wow, that just would give me so much comfort and, and soothe so much of the stress that conflict and, and confrontation can drum up in someone. Wouldn't you agree?

Absolutely, absolutely. And part of my job when I'm mediating, and also when I'm coaching and helping people going through conflict, is to role model that cool, calm, ordered process and to role model those behaviors that we would like to see. And that can be very challenging for me as the mediator. There are days when you just want to clunk people's heads together and say, can't you see what's going on here?

Well, are you playing— are you also having to play coach and ment— not mentor, but Are you having to play coach and counsel and advisor and psychologist during this, or do you keep it very technical— is the only word I can think of?

A lot of what I do does involve coaching and counseling. I don't give advice. That is the one thing I don't do, which is quite actually refreshing and liberating after having been a lawyer for so long and having to carefully weigh every piece of 'Advice I give, lest I get it wrong.' It's actually really liberating to say, 'Well, I can't give you any advice, but what I can tell you is the general trends are, you know, other cases like yours has turned out this way in court, and, you know, let's think about if you want to do this, you know, you never ever want to speak to your sister again, how is that going to work out in the next, you know, 6 months, 5 years, 10 years? How's that going to look in reality?' So, and I do that sometimes in a joint session where everybody's together, and sometimes in a separate session where it's just private between me and one or the other person involved.

Right, right. Well, because what you're trying to get them to do, I'm assuming, because I'm, I'm trying to run scenarios in my head as you're talking, is you're trying to get them to get out of the emotion, right? Just like you, you know, the opening of the conversation talked about, you're trying to get them out of the emotional state and really just look at this as, you know, just logical issues that need to have a solution to them, which every issue has a solution. Is that a fair assessment?

Yes, some of the time it is. And some of the time we do need to stay in the emotion. But we do need to focus on, okay, this is how you're feeling now. How would you like to feel? And what steps can we take together to get you there.

Right, right. And can I—

Sometimes that means you need an apology. Yes.

No, keep going, keep going. No, go ahead. You need an apology sometimes?

Yeah, like sometimes it's, you know, in order for you to move on emotionally, you need an apology. Or you need, in employment situation, for example, you need the employer to say, this is what we're going to do to make sure that nobody else has the same issues that you had. So this is how we're going to stop bullying or this is how we're going to, whatever it is, address the issue. So sometimes it is very emotional but we do, and you need to acknowledge and validate and recognise the emotions the person has experienced and is experiencing and then you need to get them to think about how they want to feel in the future.

Interesting, interesting. And do you— I'm guessing you do this for corporate, for business, like entrepreneurs and whatnot. But do you also do this for individuals? You did mention family members. Do you do this for just everyday individuals with their disputes amongst themselves as a family, as neighbors, as a community?

It's—

yeah, absolutely, I do.

Yeah.

Yeah. So a lot of what I do at the moment is workplace. There's a real trend at the moment in Australia to get workplace mediation happening before problems get to the point where they have to go through a formal tribunal system. So that's really a bit of a trending area at the moment. But I work with people in families. As I said, I did a lot of work around wills and estates when I was working as a lawyer, so I work with families who are perhaps planning, estate planning or planning parents transitioning into care. Yeah, but the stuff I teach— and I was presenting to a group of women in business recently, and the case that we workshopped— and I never thought I would be doing this— one of the women is a real estate agent, and she was telling me about this very unpleasant situation that happened when she was holding an open house one day, and a fellow came along and was very rude and aggressive. And workshop how she could better have responded to and coped with that. And I came away from that seminar thinking, wow, I never thought that I'd be helping real estate agents deal with conflict at open houses. So it really does apply everywhere.

Yeah, absolutely. Well, and so for those listening, because of course, you know, you and I are—

are—

have quite the, you know, business LinkedIn network as much as we have our family interpersonal, you know, connections type of network. Can you run through some scenarios just in case someone's dealing with something in the workplace and they're not quite sure, you know, that even mediation is out there and how they should be leveraging it? So what are some of the workplace scenarios that you often have to deal with?

What a great question. Thank you. I'm not sure what the situation is like in the States, but here in Australia, if someone's been on a workers' compensation claim and has been away from work, sometimes it can be difficult when they're returning to work. Sometimes the employer might not want to accommodate their needs as they come back to work, perhaps on a part-time basis and build up to full-time, or perhaps the claim has been from bullying within the workplace. So those are two situations where we'll actually come in and mediate or help them to negotiate the terms and conditions, the rules upon which the person comes back to work. So we'll aim to draw up a contract by the end of the mediation session which sets out exactly how and when the injured worker will return to work and what support and encouragement the workplace place will provide both on that sort of technical logistical level and if necessary on the emotional level. I've had one case where dealing with an apprentice and his trainer and we had to put in the agreement things like the trainer will greet the apprentice by name in the morning and ask him how he is and at lunchtime he will engage in conversation and ask about, you know, things of common interest and, you know, sometimes particularly generational differences can be really stark in the workplace when you're stuck together so many hours of the day. So that's one situation that we see. An interesting, yeah, an interesting one I've seen coming up more often too is where there's been an allegation of bullying and there's been an investigation and it's been found that the worker was not the victim of bullying and now the worker is being reintroduced to the workplace. So that's another one that we see quite often.

Yes. Yes. Is that because the fact that either that person that was being accused of bullying is now kind of has a reputation, like things got out and people are learning about it, or is it the fact that if they were bullied, then— you know, how do they stay on and feel as if they're not the victim?

Yes, both of those things. Both of those things. And often there's a bit of fear too that the behaviour that was complained about will continue. So even if it was found that the supervisor's behaviour or the co-worker's behaviour was not within the definition of bullying, we can set up a behavioural contract where it says I will do this, I won't do that in the future.

Yeah, right, right. And do you, you know, because I'm sure there's other people out there thinking, you know, I want to engage someone or, you know, a mediator or whomever to kind of resolve these issues, but it is going to go against me. And you mentioned that in Australia at least that, you know, there's a big trend toward mediation Is it because Australia doesn't allow retaliation, so to speak, or they don't allow for repercussions, as opposed to there's a lot of fear here in the States that should I raise my voice and call someone to the carpet and even bring, you know, legal or HR into the picture, then there could be some backlash on my career and on, you know, my— even my hiring or my—

employment.

And those are very real fears I think wherever you are. The system here in Australia is we have a couple of, we have a federal body which is the Fair Work Ombudsman which can get involved and mediate these matters and if necessary refer the matter to a Fair Work Tribunal. And at the state levels there are similar bodies which can also adjudicate on these things Part of the trend towards mediation before things get to that formal level is because it's quicker. There can be waiting times to get through the formal processes. But also mediation is confidential. So whatever you say in mediation stays in the room.

Okay, right. Amongst just you, the mediator, or whomever's involved? Involved in the mediation process?

Whomever's involved. So often it will be the worker who feels they've been hard done by, the person they're accusing, and usually someone from HR is involved. Usually I get involved because HR or management reaches out to myself or other mediators and gets us in. So that's usually how it happens. It also means then that when we draw up this behavioural contract, we can get HR on board to help check in and make sure that everybody's doing what they said they'd do and to give some support if there's coming off the rails.

Right.

Wow.

Okay. And I'm sure anybody listening out there, you're probably, you know, running your own scenarios. Maybe you have your situation yourself. And all I can say is— and I posted this prior to us getting on this program— is I said if you needed to, you know, get your issue, get your question addressed, yet you're a little concerned about doing it, you know, in a public platform like on a radio show or on a Facebook post or a tweet, then be sure to reach out to Rebecca directly. Again, her email address is is Rebecca@rcbmediationservices.com.au. Of course, she works in Australia. That's not to say that you can't LinkedIn with her, you can't tweet with her, you can't Facebook with her and figure out if there is a way to work with her. And then also you can always go to everydaymediator.com for more information in regards to Rebecca Carol Bell. And the everyday mediator. Well, we have tons more to talk about, but I want to take a quick break, and when we get back, I want to talk about kind of how do we recognize these difficult people or situations in the workplace. Like Rebecca said, you know, they're trying to prevent it or at least get ahead of it. So what can you do to identify these situations or these people in your lives? But then I want to talked about her ESP formula and how can you leverage that in your everyday dealings with conflict and confrontation. So we'll be right back.

You are listening to Shedding the Bitch Radio with Bernadette Boas. We are inspiring individuals around the globe to discover, confront, and shed their bitches of fear, insecurity, and negativity so they can create get the riches in their career, business, and life they deserve. Be sure to check out Bernadette's book, Shedding the Corporate Bitch: Shifting from Bitch to Rich in Life and Business, available on Amazon and sheddingthebitch.com. We also want to thank our sponsors, TSR Consulting, who offers a broad range of tax services for small to corporate-sized clients. Go to TSRConsulting.com to learn more. And Parker House Virtual Services, who provides virtual assistance and social media support for small to medium-sized businesses. Email Deborah Parker at deborahparker78@gmail.com for more information. To become a sponsor or advertiser on our program, email us at mediarelations@sheddingthebitch.com. Shedding the Bitch Radio airs every Tuesday Tuesday at noon Eastern time. Be sure to go to blogtalkradio.com/shuttingthebitchradio and follow the program for all of the updates and announcements of our guests and show topics. Now let's return to Bernadette and Shedding the Bitch Radio.

Welcome back everyone. We are talking to the Everyday Mediator, Rebecca Carol Bell, and we're talking about how you can shed your own fear or angst or just anxiety about dealing with conflict and confrontation, whether it's at work or at home. But before we jump into the next bit of questions, I want to mention to you that she has her latest book, and I'd like you to kind of inquire on it and, you know, even buy it if you would. But Discover the The Essential Art of Client Management with this new book from Australia's leading conflict resolution expert and everyday mediator, Rebecca Carole Bell. In her new book, she shows readers how they can turn difficult clients into raving fans using her easy-to-follow 5-step brief approach. It was released on October 31st of this year. Brief The Essential Art of Client Management is a must-read for recent graduates and seasoned professionals. Drawing on her experience as a successful litigation lawyer and mediator, Rebecca tells it like it is with real-life examples and practical steps on how to avoid and overcome the obstacles she faced in her early, early career. Not content just to tell readers what to do, Rebecca has also produced a companion workbook book that challenges you to start putting her lessons into action right away. Rebecca Carroll Bell is a fresh new voice in the crowded professional development market. Drawing on her own experiences as a young litigation lawyer struggling to thrive in an industry that remains highly gendered, her debut book shows you how you can turn difficult clients into your basic fans. You can go to Amazon.com Amazon and look up the, the, the, the title of the book, uh, which is Brief: The Essential Art of Client Management by Rebecca Carroll Bell. Congratulations on that, Rebecca. That's awesome.

Thank you. It's, um, been rattling around in my head for a while, so it was terrific to take some time out earlier this year to actually write the book and get it out of my head and onto paper. So it's very, very exciting.

That is exciting. So I want everybody to go and take a look for that, please, and support the experts, you know, come to the Shedding the Bitch community and share a great deal of their expertise and value and tips and advice. So speaking of which, can you help our listeners, you know, we're talking conflict and confrontation and difficult people in difficult situations. How do we identify them? And maybe, you know, we're— we can prevent getting, you know, us ourselves caught up in those situations. But how can we identify those in our lives?

Hmm. So there's this concept which was actually developed by Bill Eddy, who is a fantastic family law lawyer and mediator based out of California. And he talks about high-conflict personalities and high-conflict behaviour types. And these people are the ones, and we all know one or two of them, they're just always looking for a disagreement. They're always unhappy, they're always in an argument with someone. And I've taken that concept, because Bill talks a lot about family law and how to parent with someone post-separation, you know, how to raise children together. And I've then developed it for the business context into what I call high attention clients. And this applies in your everyday life as well— family, neighborhood, school. It's the people who need your attention all of the time. So they might contact you every day, they might ask you the same question every day. In the law, we see it a lot. You get a client will ring or email you 3 or 4 times a week to say 'Have you got that document from the other people yet?' 'Have you got that document yet?' 'Have they served that document yet?' And no matter how many times you say, 'I will call you when I get it,' they will still call every other day and ask you the same question. So that constant contact and the need for attention is one of the key signs. Another is that they repeat themselves, so they tell you the same things and they ask you the same questions. Does that sound familiar?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Uh-huh.

And another one is that you can't get a word in edgewise. They just talk and talk and talk and talk and talk. And they display all these behaviors right up until you need something from them. So either you need them to give you a document, you need them to pay their bill, you need them to do something for you, and then you can't find them. They're gone. Vanished. Oh, and, and it's never ever, ever their fault. There's always some reason, there's always some external reason why they ended up in the situation they're in and they couldn't do what you needed them to do. And yet nothing's ever actually their fault. So those are some of the hallmarks of the high-attention person and possibly a high-conflict person as well. High conflict people then, on top of that, seem incapable of actually changing their point of view or listening to reason. So a lot of the techniques I teach are designed to move that really high attention, high conflict person into a space where they can hear you and they can start to shift their own thinking. And I think if listeners, if there's one key thing that they take away from our conversation today, it's this: you can't change anyone else, you can only change yourself. Through changing how you react and respond to conflict will influence other people's conflict behaviour.

Amen to that, sister. Amen to that. And I hope everybody heard that. You can't change anybody.

That's right. And in a funny way, in conflict, even though we're talking about what you want the other person to do, we end up coming back to you changing yourself.

Right, right. Yep. Yep. So is that where you came up with this ESP formula. And you know, just to describe that, because ESP for some of us means something else. But is that how you came up with the ESP formula? Is through trying to figure out simple steps to give someone to recognize that?

Yeah, yeah. And I wanted something that was catchy, that was easy to remember. What happens when we're faced with conflict, and you may know this, your listeners may already know this, the brain triggers the flight or fight response. So it can be very difficult to think clearly when you're faced with conflict because your reptilian brain, your amygdala, is telling you, 'Run away from the danger, run away from the danger,' even when it's perhaps not a real danger, but the brain sort of can't tell the difference between a saber-toothed tiger and someone disagreeing with you.

Right.

So I wanted to create a formula that was simple and easy and that you can practice in, again, in everyday situations. And I recommend that everybody practice this in low-conflict and no-conflict situations, and I'll give you some examples of that shortly. But I wanted something that was quick and easy to follow so that you can go, hang on, what do I need to do? ESP. And now I know you've been hanging out with Bernadette Boas, so let me tell you what it is E stands for explore with empathy. So basically, don't assume, don't jump to conclusions, don't assume you know what's going on. Ask lots and lots of questions. Be genuinely curious, and if at all possible, show some empathy. So if I go back to my real estate agent example that we were speaking about before, she had this fellow who— and here in Australia, when you go to an open house, you need to show photo ID so that the real estate agent, the selling agent, has some record of who's been in the house. It's just become common practice here. And this chap— yeah, yeah, and it's very logical— but this chap was deeply offended. Don't know why. He was deeply offended at having to give over his personal information. And so we were workshopping this, and I said, well, perhaps if you'd have said 'Oh, I understand. I don't like giving out my personal information to strangers either, but it's a term of the contract with the vendor. I have to do it.' You're showing empathy to the fellow. You're saying, 'Yeah, I get where you're coming from. I understand why you're uncomfortable with this. Can we work something out together?' So we're on the same team.

Right.

So that's exploring with empathy. The S is for sorting out what I call the junk mail. So you know when you go to your mailbox and there's all those catalogues from places that you never ever shop at and you can throw them straight in the recycling bin?

Uh-huh.

Often you can do the same thing with what people are telling you, particularly if they're these habitually high-conflict, high-attention people. So if they're telling you something where there's no real issue being discussed or they're just giving you an opinion about, you know, what a horrible person you are, it's hurtful but it's junk mail. Perhaps it's something that you can't change their mind about, and this comes up a lot actually. You mentioned earlier with politics. Politics is something where you often can't or don't want to attempt to change someone's mind. You don't always have to respond to that. Sometimes you can say, "Well, that was junk mail," and you can say, "Thank you for telling me," and then you can talk about something else. You don't actually have to respond, defend, explain. You can just go, "Nope, that's junk mail. That's going straight in the bin." Ah, okay. And then once you've figured out what the important stuff is, you've gotten rid of the junk mail, then we move on to P, which stands for propose. A solution. And this is something that I've discovered through sort of trial and error over the, you know, my years dealing with people in heightened emotional state. If you say, if you tell someone what to do, often they'll arc up against that. They'll resist. They'll say no. They'll not comply. But if you ask them, so you either give them the option, you know, do you want to come in Tuesday at 10 'Wednesday at 2,' and then they're making the decision. Or if you frame it along the lines of, 'Would it be okay if instead of everybody drinking my milk, we used petty cash to buy milk in the office?' Then you're more likely to either get an agreement or a counter-proposal, and that's where you start negotiating.

Mm, okay, and that's ESP— explore, sort, and propose.

That's it.

Well, and what it's like to me, that's why I was listening so closely, what it sounded like to me is, is it's really kind of trying to, uh, I don't want to say put the onus on the other person, but allowing the other person to contribute in the in the process of coming up with solutions, coming up with ideas, identifying the issue. So both of you are kind of not in control, but you're having a shared purpose in the process. Is that what you're saying?

That's absolutely right. That's absolutely right. And we all know the adage about letting someone think it was their idea. So if they think that it was their idea or if they've, you know, agreed to the solution, then they're more likely to stick to it. Whereas if they feel like you or the judge has told them what they have to do, then that's going to not sit well with them and they're likely to sort of never really accept it, embrace it, and sometimes will then sabotage it down the track.

Right.

And you're saying that, that any of us listening to this program today can actually use this ESP formula in our day-in, day-out lives? We don't need to wait until there's a mediation, mediation type of situation? Is that right?

Mm-hmm.

Absolutely. That's right. That's right. And because it's going to be a bit new and unusual and feel a bit strange when you start doing it, like any skill, and it is a skill, Like any skill, the more you practice, the easier it becomes. So to come back to the holiday season examples that we spoke about earlier, perhaps if you need to negotiate the menu for Thanksgiving or for Christmas lunch, instead of telling people what they're going to bring, you could ask them. And if you want to confine the options so you don't have 6 people bringing salad and nobody brings any turkey, you can give them 2 or 3 options. To choose from.

Right, right.

And so, yeah, and so you can go through and practice. So you can start with, you know, you're talking to your sister, so, 'Oh, you're going to come over here and, you know, we're having lunch at my house and you're going to come and you're going to bring all these people. How long will that take? How long will the drive be? And what time do you think you'll be leaving?' And, 'Okay,' and, and, you know, whatever else you need to discuss. But ask lots of questions about, you know, 'Oh, are you going to Be working the day before? Are you going to have a late night? How's that going to be for you? Is it going to be alright? And then through that you can pick up any— so if they say, for example, oh actually yeah, I'm going to be working 4 nights of night shift before Thanksgiving, so I'll be pretty tired, then you can pick up on that and say, oh okay, so you're going to be pretty tired, so do you feel like you'd be up to preparing something for lunch? And so then that sort of gets them to not only consider their own capacity, but also shows that you have listened, that you have acknowledged what's going on in their life, and that you really are coming from a place of love and care and concern.

Right.

Well, I'm hearing too that it's collaboration and communication. It's not just telling, telling, telling, telling, telling.

Yeah.

Yep. And I'm not a parent myself, other than, you know, I have a rabbit, and she pretty much is the boss, so.

Yeah.

But what I'm hearing from a lot of people is that this is actually a really great technique with older children, so children who are sort of primary school age right through until teenagers and early adulthood. They find that when they use this ESP system, then they can negotiate with their children and get that collaboration that was missing.

Yeah, I think that's awesome. I'm writing this down. A great formula for parents. I think that's awesome because you're right. I mean, this doesn't have to apply to just, you know, with multiple or two children. Adults, it could be actually used for any type of need to gain collaboration and agreement as opposed to, you know, just always being one-sided. Mm-hmm.

So my family, my parents were divorced when I was in primary school, and I'm now in my late 30s. So that's been our reality for some years now. And I use this all the time when I'm negotiating when I'm speaking to my sister and my parents and my stepparents and talking about, you know, how we're going to split up the holidays, who's going to go where, what's going to happen. I use these techniques all the time and it's really, really effective and it just takes the stress out because everybody— it doesn't become what I want, what you want, you know, whose turn it is. It just becomes a conversation where everyone is looking to meet everyone else's emotional needs and interests. And that's the thing is, it always to me comes back to the emotions. And again, as lawyers, we tend to look at what the law says. It's very logical, it's very prescribed, but emotions aren't prescribed. And sometimes you feel things and it doesn't seem to make any sense, but you feel what you feel. So don't push that to one side, embrace it, work with it, express it, and, and address it.

I love that. I love that. I love that. I love that. All right, everybody, listen up. ESP formula: explore, sort, and propose. And is there anything on your website? Is there any, you know, resource or anything that they could be going to, to kind of learn more about this, or should they just reach out to you directly?

Well, Bernadette, if it's all right with you, what I can do is I can share some resources onto your Facebook page so that people can read some articles that I've prepared and download some help sheets and tip sheets.

Absolutely. Feel free, feel free, feel free. And at the same time, everybody, I want you to go to— oh, I'm sorry, I just lost it. I want you to go to everydaymediator.com, learn more about Rebecca. I want you to definitely look up her book, and I apologize, I'm trying to scan. Look up her book on Amazon, Brief. It's called Brief: The Essential Art of Client Management. And at the same time, Facebook with her, LinkedIn with her, tweet with her, and she makes it really easy. If you, if you simply go to RCB Mediation in either Facebook or Twitter, it's actually going to bring up the RCB Mediation Services page for Facebook, and then it'll bring up her Twitter handle of RCB Mediation. We have about 60 seconds left. Do you have one overall tip, Rebecca, that you can provide our listeners today?

Absolutely. What I'd love is for everyone to practice saying thank you more. So when somebody complains or is angry, first thing you want to say is thank you for telling me.

Yeah. Yeah. Love that.

Yes.

That's why I was clapping. Love that. Love that.

Thank you.

Thank you so much. It's— it not only gives you a moment to think and breathe, it tells the other person I care about you.

Right.

Regardless of what you're saying to me or what your opinion is or what the situation is, you know, we'll get to that in a minute. I just want to thank you, right?

Yep, yep. I respect you for telling me that. Thank you.

Love it, love it, love it. And I thank you, Rebecca, for being a part of this. Yes, because this has been awesome, and I certainly look forward to continuing getting to know you and what you're doing and how our Shedding the Bitch community can support you and your books and, and your activity that you're doing. I certainly want to learn more myself about your ESP formula, um, because my past has been very much, um, non-collaborative. But, you know, that's where Shedding the Corporate Bitch came from. But I've learned—

I just started reading your book today, actually. So yeah, thank you, thank you, thank you.

But I But I really do, I focus each and every day on making sure that I am, in your words, applying a, you know, formula like explore, sort, and propose. Because I had a tendency to always just, you know, kind of tell people and not engage. So it's something that is a daily, you know, exercise that we all need to go through. And I want everybody to please look up Rebecca Carroll Bell and let the Everyday Mediator help you in resolving any conflict or any situation, whether it is at work or at home. So thank you so much, Rebecca. I so appreciate you sharing all of that great information with us today.

My very great pleasure. Thank you for the invitation.

Absolutely. And everyone, you know, stay tuned for ongoing— our ongoing conversations regarding the top-of-mind issues that are women are dealing with today that are getting them in their, in their own way of achieving the riches that they want in life. I want to be sure that everyone, you have a blessed, safe, and fun holiday season. And please share with us on Facebook or Twitter, you know, what your holiday, um, you know, how it is progressing. And even, should you use the ESP Formula that Rebecca talked about, I'm sure she would love to hear about how effective and how you were able to utilize it. As well, I would too. So please be sure to go to Facebook and Twitter, our Shedding the Bitch page, and share all that with us. And again, a shout out to Deborah Parker of Parker House Virtual Services. Hoping that she gets well and enjoys the holiday season too. But we'll be right back here next Tuesday at noon Eastern time for another edition of Shedding the Bitch Radio. So everyone have a blessed, prosperous, and rich week. And again, thank you, Rebecca, for joining the program. We'll talk to you soon, everybody.

Thank you for listening to Shedding the Bitch Radio with Bernadette Boas. Join Bernadette every Tuesday at noon Eastern as she helps you shift your bitches to riches. And the dialogue is always going on at sheddingthebitch.com. See you next week.

Thank you so much, Rebecca. I appreciate it. That was awesome.

Oh, thank you. That was so much fun.

Yeah, well, let's definitely stay in touch and see, you know, how we can support one another going forward, because I just love what you're doing and how you're going about it. And we can certainly all use a little bit of ESP in our lives.

Absolutely, in every way.

Yeah, exactly. And have a beautiful holiday season.

Thank you, I will.

All right, we'll talk soon.

Lovely.

Bye, Bernadette Boas. Bye-bye.