Art of Routine with Angel Iscovich, MD

Are you ready to create riches in your work and life? It's time for Shedding the Bitch Radio and TV, where you can discuss, debate, and get advice on how to discover and shed the bitches of fear, insecurity, self-doubt, and negativity so you can realize your dreams and life purpose and create and accelerate the riches in life you deserve. So let's welcome your ball of fire host, Bernadette Boas.

Welcome, welcome, welcome everybody to the Shedding the Bitch radio show. And yes indeed, I'm Bernadette Boas and it's being brought to you by Ball of Fire Coaching. What we do here in the Shedding the Bitch community is we give you tools, tips, and a mindset to really help you shed the fears, insecurities, negativities— what we call bitches— so you can create the riches in your life. And so you can learn more about everything that we do here at balloffirecoaching.com. Now before we get into, um, the topic of today, which is the art of routine. And you all know me, I love routine, I love discipline, and I love when we're able to blend science into it. And that's what we're going to talk about today. But before we do, I need truly to thank our, um, current long-term listeners and viewers. You are out there sharing, liking, subscribing, commenting. You're even giving us recommendations on topics and on guests, and it certainly has helped us attract even the new viewers and listeners that are coming on board and enjoying the topics that we're bringing you each and every week on Shedding the Bitch. Now you can always go to Shedding the Bitch TV on Facebook, you can go to Shedding the Bitch on YouTube, you can go to BlogTalkRadio, to, to download any one of our episodes from multiple years that we've been doing the program, as well as on any one of your streaming services. And at the same time, be sure to like, rate, subscribe, leave comments. You know how to do it, um, because that just helps us all get, uh, more and more of you on board with us, which is what we love to do. All right, so our topic for today is going to be all about the art of routine. The insight into our human nature is the importance of a stable environment and routine and how we are wired. That's going to be important. Our physiology, physiology and chronology, as well as how we perceive our world, world with routine, rhythm, and regularity, gives us a sense of certainty. Today, our world is disruptive, interruptive, and distracting our very nature. Our guest's book, The Art of Routine, expands our insights into this aspect of our human nature and points to longevity. Who doesn't want that? High performers, care of our young, and business. So there's 3 areas we're going to really focus on. However, we will probably expand that in our discussion, but we're going to focus on the importance of routine and stability in longevity and high performance. We're going to talk about how individuals have dealt with crisis, and we certainly have had a year and a half of, of crisis, and then our response to the world pandemic, its disruption, and our recovery, which is like exactly what we want, right? So I want to leave you with a rich question, and for our guests and for all of you new listeners and viewers, I like to ground you in a rich question about the topic because you might have joined in and thought, oh, do I really, you know, do I need to hear about the art of routine? Is it relevant to me? Yes, it is. And so I want to leave you with a question that you can then carry forward into our discussion. And most likely our guests, like many of them, are able to answer that question. So think about, if you will, consider kind of what do you need in your routine on a daily basis to really optimize your longevity and your performance? What routine can you really work, you know, to improve in your day in, day out in order to improve your longevity and high performance? All right. That's your rich question. Now, let me introduce our guest, Dr. I, which I absolutely love, Angel Iskovich. He has been referred to as a philosopher who happened to be trained in medicine. From philosophy to psychiatry to emergency medicine, and from the emergency room to the boardroom. He was born in Buenos Aires, Argentina, and immigrating to the United States made for world of opportunity, leading to a journey of thought, medicine, and compassion in the hopes of making for a better world. Residency training in psychiatry and the interest in human behavior made emergency medicine the perfect venue to explore crisis in its very essence and insights into human nature. As a CEO, he exercised leadership, organization development, and strategy in the corporate healthcare sector. He now serves and guides several for-profit and nonprofit boards as the past board chair of Direct Relief, a top-rated charity in the United States. He responds across— or they respond across the world to provide humanitarian relief. That one sees impact of our social contract. Now, his book, The Art of Routine— Amazon, just start Googling right now— The Art of Routine: Discover How Routinology Can Transform Your Life is available now. So let me welcome to the show our guest, Dr.

I.

How are you?

Good, good. Thank you. Thanks so much for having me and, and appreciate the introduction. You know, thank you.

Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. I— my community, my followers know how much of a performance productivity process routine junkie I am. And it comes comes to our show on a regular basis. And there's— and this particular conversation, because you have a whole different slant and viewpoint on routine that we're going to get into during our time together. But before we get into that, can you share with us a little bit about you and your kind of backstory and how this, beyond your, your bio, how this became a really a passion subject for you.

Right. Well, and thank you. Yeah, it's interesting because as I was really transitioning from my role as a CEO and the board, I began to kind of look, you know, you reflect obviously as people make significant changes. I talk about that a little bit in the book, how we have these time bubbles that then change our perspectives and make us create new ones. And I thought a little bit about, in an eclectic way, my background and And this, this area of trying to kind of recreate to a certain degree my own world, you know, and now that suddenly you don't have the same responsibilities as CEO and this is happening to many of us throughout our careers, of course, Tommy, a little bit to thinking through this. And what happened was, is I kind of started thinking about, you know, what's routine because my own personal routines were disrupted outside of anything like today, which we could talk about later. Which is obviously our routine, our environments have been different. And so I had a thought back to when we were studying geriatric emergency departments and about 15 years ago, just like for children that we were setting up, we have children's emergency departments because we've talked in medicine that children aren't just little adults. They have special needs. We've heard now that as people get a little bit older, they also have special needs. The way they present with emergencies or medical problems is different than just the middle-of-the-ground adult.

Right.

We were developing these, these specialty emergency departments, and it got me interested in people that had long lives. And what about what happens to your body and physiology when you're over 100? So I got very interested in centenarians or centenarians, people that were over 100 years of age. And I started to kind of both anecdotally and otherwise study these 100-year-olds. And I came kind of to this more empirical observation that kind of led me into this whole world and book, which was that there were two things as I studied and met these people. And it directly— that, you know, when I give a little talk, I talk about Edith Kirschmeyer. She was 105, the oldest Facebook user, had this incredible routine at volunteering and still able to drive. She's the oldest person with a driver's license and California, where I'm, where I'm currently at. And so I started to— and I saw two very common things. And that was one, they had a very stable environment, people that lived these long lives, both physically, kind of where they were, right? And the kind of the social aspects, the people around them. And number two, they had a very, very specific routine. They were very, very timely. They did things very regularly. They did this almost without it, and although it might change over time, they had a lot of regularity, a lot of rhythm, a lot of timeliness. But what they did, the content of the routine, which is really the art of what it is you do, the what is what is varied tremendously. In some ways it was healthy, in some ways it wasn't. Centenarians always had to have their Dr Pepper every day at a certain time. Others might have their, their alcohol and their scotch at a certain moment, and others would take a walk and eat certain foods that some in today's world would consider maybe not as healthy. But what was most obvious was that they did these routines. They did things very, very regular, regardless of what it is they did. And it got me thinking that maybe there's a greater importance to the environment and doing things regularly than it is to what it is we do.

Right.

Today's world, we're being interrupted and disrupted with all kinds of things. Do the paleo diet, do the, do the South Beach diet, or if it's exercise, for example, all forms of exercise. And maybe that what the— what it is is not, not important. That's customizable. But maybe just doing things regularly in a stable environment are very important. It got me thinking about high performers. And people that were, whether it was business, artists, excuse me, athletes, got me to thinking about care of the young, how we organize, how we structure, how we make sure that we develop routines when we care for our very young as they grow up. And it got me to thinking, too, about businesses that have some really good organizations and structures and how they have— the good businesses have stable environments and good routines. And those routines And even in social life or in business life. And even if you look historically, those, those become kind of rituals and those rituals become traditions. Yeah. And how is it that there's this regularity in the sort? And it made me start to think, and I know I'm kind of going on a little bit, but telling you how this evolved, right, to, to actually think about the book. But it made me think, ask the question, why is that?

Yeah.

It started to recognize that the way we're wired, our bodies, our physiology, our endocrinology, our immunology, And even the most basic parts of how we are has a lot of rhythm and a lot of routine to it.

Right, right.

We could talk about like circadian rhythms, what's happening to our bodies when we awake and what happens when it becomes 3 o'clock.

Right.

Those things change. And then even our hearts beat regularly, right? Or not irregular. They have a lot of rhythm and routine in the world we perceive. Bernadette Boas is even in our most basic perception. Has this rhythm, right? The sun rises and sets. The moon, we know that now, the moon phases. And whenever those things are disrupted, our environment or how we perceive the world or how our bodies are, right, or these aspects of routines and the sort, this is when we become distressed and we become worried and when our bodies don't react well and give us a certain sense of uncertainty and the sort. So that's kind of the evolution of how I started to write about this book and in these, in these particular areas.

And what, beyond writing the book and having all of that unbelievably great knowledge now and, and having all those great encounters with people— I would love to sit down with a bunch of 100-plus-year-olds and, and have conversations with them— other than the book, how else are you leveraging what it is that you've gained, especially around routine, around human behavior. Are you doing, you know, any type of coaching training? Is there any other application that you're putting it to?

Yes. And I think in all of those areas, whether there's the areas of wellness, there's the areas of businesses and companies, I've been able— and/or individuals who are kind of having life changes or stress, and even talking now about how to deal with How do you go back to the workplace, for example? Or in some companies, there were certain situations I'd get— I'd ask the question, said, hey, gee, I loved your— I love the book. It was a great read. And, you know, I saw something you wrote about that. And, you know, I have these meetings at 3 o'clock with people and they all seem to not pay attention. It doesn't seem meaningful. Can you help me with what that all means? So I start using really looking at circadian rhythms where you look at when you're— when you— what happens when you wake up and how diligent— it's really great to do diligent work, as an example, diligent work, very technical work from like 8 to 10. By 10, between 10 and 2 and through lunch is a great, in a general way, to do engagement. By 3 o'clock, cortisol levels, and so all of that stuff starts to change. So I've been able to apply these, uh, kind of principles. That's one of the, the more, um, basic principles that— and, and quite a bit of science is known behind, behind circadian rhythms. So I'm able to apply those. And I've also even helped apply them to my own personal life.

Well, that's what I really was interested in. What, what changed for you, let alone for other people that you might now be able to train and coach?

Right. So, you know, when you're— when someone is running an organization, it was, as was the case, there's a lot of structure and regularity, which I have, but suddenly that structure and regulatory leaves one. And so I had to kind of develop a little bit more of a new routine. And one of the things we know about science is that when you start to do things and you do them regularly and you complete them, it makes you feel good. The way the body works, a lot of things are going on in the body that lets you complete something. And so one of the things I kind of picked up, just this is personal for myself, is that I started doing a little morning affirmation, which I had never done before. A morning affirmation in today's technology world was easy to do because you put it on your iPhone, right, at whatever time, 6:30, 7 o'clock, or whenever you awake, and it gives you an alert affirmation. And you try to say something that kind of sets you for the day, and you do it every day. And it could be something like in the old Stuart Smalley days, like, uh, what is it, I'm smart enough, I'm good enough, and Gosh darn it, people like me. That was kind of a standard affirmation he did every morning.

Yeah.

It could also be kind of a gathering that we're going to have a good day. It could be a thought and kind of gather you in the thought. So that's, for example, something that gave me personally a lot more rhythm. And another kind of— because people are always asking me for prescriptions and it's very difficult because people are very different.

Absolutely.

Yeah. Yeah. And another one is we've kind of been involved a little bit. We've always had dogs and One of the great things about dogs is they get you into a real routine, especially when your lives are disrupted. They start to focus you regularly day in and day out, obviously feeding and walking and the sort. So those are a couple of things that I did personally that I started to really think about, right? My own personal prescriptives about what I was writing about.

That's awesome. And yes, I have— see that little framed thing behind me? That's my morning, part of my morning. My morning routine is affirmations, manifestation, prayer, journaling, even before— and then getting into kind of the business side of it, planning and goal setting every morning. So, yeah.

And that's the point. The point I try to make is that for people, what it is they do is different. Yes, there are better times to do things. And the fact that you can do them and complete that task really kind of ground you, gives you something to look forward to. Has a lot of things happening in your body and helps you then develop that content and how you function to be successful or to have stability in the—

Right. Yeah, no, I agree. And you created a great segue there because I really want our listeners and viewers to understand kind of the importance of stability in our life, because some people will be like, oh, well, change is good. And You know, and, you know, I like to be adaptable to change, but at the same time, other people are like, well, you know what, I don't mind when things are kind of flat. But, you know, kind of why is a stable environment and routine— why is it— why is it so important, you know, important in our lives?

Right. You know, I— part of the insight into that aspect of human nature is that that's how we're wired. You know, humans, if you look historically, have always migrated. We're all very curious. So changing things or going to the moon or changing our environments. And that's because I believe it's kind of a bit of our survival of our species. It may be a little scientific or social, but we're all— and this happens with other species too. We're moving and trying to find better environments of food, shelter, water, better ways to be able to create and move our lives. And we see this even Today, where what happens with war and pestilence and disease and even, of course, as you talk about disease, COVID, and how people have migrated from urban centers to others, we do this very naturally to survive. So it's kind of how we're wired, but we're also wired into that curiosity and finding a better place, a better, a better spot. And the way life is, as I talk about in my little book, I had to make an analogy, I thought, for people about it, of how they could understand the concept better. And we call it a time bubble. And time is what's inside the bubble. It's the regularity of what you do, the rhythm.

Love that.

It's not what it is exactly. You can put what you want. The bubble is this kind of fragile but somewhat protective and stable environment that often from external or internal forces breaks and busts. And that happens with changes as you get older, changes in life, divorce, family. Work changes, and your bubbles burst. But our intrinsic nature and the way we're wired is to recreate that stability, to remove that stress and that uncertainty.

Yeah.

So consequently, people often ask me, well, routine is kind of boring, you know, isn't it? And I said, well, just change what it is you do.

Yeah.

Whatever it is you do, do it with some rhythm and regularity and stick to it, because in today's times, we are so— and that we could speak on these issues, but we're being very easily distracted and interrupted from what is usually our natural rhythm. Right. And I'm trying to use our little bit of a sense of our bodies and how we are really to connect to this longevity performance, you know, and how it is. Life will be stressful.

Yeah.

You know, in the book, I start by an emergency cesarean section that I did. And I talked about the womb where, where here's this baby in this protective environment that actually has a lot of routine upon your being before you're being born. And suddenly you're thrown out into this life. And of course, you're protected and put into a new bubble. And of course, we could talk about related social issues related to that. But basically, the applications of these concepts are just very important to how we're wired, our very own nature.

Yes.

And change occurs. I've had, I've had again many discussions that someone said, well, I don't know, I got, I did a, I did a podcast show just that they said, so, well, I don't know, I like change. I drove here a different way. You know, I went this way instead of here to get there. I said, that's fine. But it happens that you're here on time interviewing me and you have enough organization structure an ability to actually perform the show, you know. So people, um, there's a lot of ability to have your own art. And, you know, I learned that in medicine, that there's a general aspect to how people all react, but there's more, but there's also kind of a breath to it, you know. Yeah, there's a window to that. And, and so when you— when they talk about the art of medicine, you know, which I've— having taught medicine and taught, you know, physicians, you learn that it's not all perfectly black and white, that there is gray there depending on who you are. And the— and as my mom used to say, that I quoted in the book, is, you know, everybody has their own rainbow, you know. So but on the other hand, there are some things that are very basic, some things that are very intrinsic and part of our nature. And I think it comes back to how we are, how to survive and how we thrive.

Yeah. So, um, yeah, I'd love to get into that, the art part of it, the art of routine. Um, and the fact that, yes, you know, it ebbs and flows with the person, you know, with us individually, right? Um, you know, is, is it, is it routine like within certain time blocks of the day? Is it the entire day? Is it just like, is it in increments of weeks? I mean, what, how would you explain to somebody who sees their life as just, well, I get up and I just do what I need to do. And, and they don't consider how routine can really help them with their performance and with their longevity. How— what would you tell them that they can start first start doing in order to really look at it like an art, like you're saying?

Well, well, I think a part of it is that most of the times, you know, when you look at like pathology, people that are behaviorally— have behavioral issues, What do we do when they have to come to the hospital? Besides trying to get the brain chemistry a little better, we provide a— try to provide a cocoon and a lot of rhythm and regularity. Not that a hospital is where you want to be. And so many times the kind of people that you describe and people ask me say, I just— I can't— I can't quite get my life together. I can't quite— it seems, you know, I lost my job. I remember, and I think I might tell the story of— as a brief one. But it points to exactly what you're asking. It was an insurance inspector who had looked at some work that I'd done in routine and said, God, I really believe in that. And he said, you know, that got my life back together. And I said, well, what do you mean? And he said, well, you know, I had a great life, but what happened is I got a divorce, I lost child custody, I became really disruptive from my work. I lost my work and I really became a little bit, so to speak, out at sea, drifting without rhythm or regularity. I was waking late. I was not exercising again. And I kind of finally got to a point that he had enough internal fortitude. This is the issue about how do you develop fortitude and discipline. It's difficult.

Right. Right.

He's the formula. To say, you know, I'm going to get started. I'm going to get going again. What he did was he went to a gym in the morning, which he felt is the best time for him to exercise, which if you look at your body's rhythms, is a pretty— one of the good times. There are different times to do that and got on a treadmill and started to exercise and did that for two— and started to be very regular. He started to be essentially a little more habitual. But next door to him, he— in the treadmill, I think it was, He found an interesting older gentleman that had a lot of structure, stability in his life, and he became friends with that person. And that person became kind of a friend and a mentor, talked about a little bit about, you know, how he ate and why he works out at this time and became a friend. Mentors are often very important too, that are good role models that have structure, organization in order to perform. We look for people that are role models. So, right.. And this person became a role model. And soon enough, as soon as his exercise began, he found this mentor, had a friend, began to follow some diet. Pretty soon his life— he was able to get back out to work, get a job, develop relationships and the sort. So part of this is how you— part of this is when you're disrupted, like you suggested, or like you don't have it, you just wake up, is getting into a routine.

Yeah.

And you see this across the board, you know, in the book, something you might not think of, for example, because I see this in artists. People think that artists, for example, are very free and creative and you think that they're the ones that are successful. Just things come to mind and the story.

And it's just not that.

It's really not that way. In the book, I talk about the Rolling Stones and Mick Jagger, and I have a chapter as an example But here are these septuagenarians, septuagenarians, over 70 years old, been touring for 55 years, do these pretty, you know, intense, uh, type of music and show. They, they're able to know how to travel well in order to perform well, and they've developed an incredible routine. Their backstage is always brought with them, it's exactly the same, right? They have an incredible routine about from the time they get to a town ready to perform to when they, when they meet, when they learn about the town, when they get together, when they do their sound checks, when Mick Jagger does, uh, 30 minutes to 45 minutes of actual dance warm-up. And, and so, and everything is actually incredibly planned and to the time, as well as the environment, because, you know, especially their backstage environment, in order to perform well.

Yeah.

And yeah, so giving a sense of a model, um, and talking a little bit about people who think that being creative or, you know, and I've had, I have another friend that's told me the same thing. He teaches students on, on scriptwriting in the movie business, and, and he's a, he's a very well-known, Chris Carter, well-known, The X-Files, you know. Okay, writer. And, and I'm just mentioning him, I hope he doesn't mind, because he's, we've talked about it before and says You know, people think that the way you create is you wait for that idea to hit you and you, you know, and the story says, no, you have to work at it. You have to develop a routine of writing and thinking, a routine where you take some time alone.

Right.

And that's one of the other routines that I've really, especially for people in busy, in our busy lives, I've written and talked about, talking about a type of personal content and art. One of them was a CEO and chair. And I, and this is one of the things I picked up. Is at about 3:30 or so, most all days, especially if one is in business, close the door, get rid of all the sensory things that you have, your telephones, your phones, and get a little bit of time to sit and ponder and let your mind wander, or maybe work on an important issue without the influence of others. And it's interesting because I said to someone, I said, can you— he says, I don't know that I could do that. I don't know that I can be for 30 minutes without my phone or my computer or somebody knocking on the door. And, and in fact, I started to think that maybe I've got to make this a challenge like the Ice Bucket Challenge, a quiet challenge or something to get people to not get this distraction interaction. And then as you do it regularly, you find the benefits of it. And this is how the body— it becomes part of a routine, part of your lifestyle.

Absolutely.

Those are just a couple examples.

Well, I want to add something to that, um, to kind of hit it home, is I went off to a, um, this like private island of my sister's in-laws that they have up in Canada. No electricity, no running water, so no technology, no lights. And for 2 weeks. And leading up to that, I was so stressed. I'm thinking, oh my gosh, how am I going to be disconnected? But to your point about routine and the art of routine is I learned, you know, in the first few days it was uncomfortable, but then all of a sudden I adapted and I adapted to a new routine that they had in operating and, you know, and going about their day and their life on the island. Without technology and, you know, so forth and so on. So I love— I just— that just ran through my mind going, gosh, yeah, I adapted to the art of routine very easily.

That's a very important point that you just brought up, adaptation. Okay, so that's the things about humans. Yeah, really adaptable is a really important point because you kind of for a moment or two burst your time bubble, as I say. Yeah, get into a different one, right?

Yes.

And one of the things about humans, both socially or individually or otherwise, is that that again, that shows you how you end up seeking stability and kind of gaining. So we're very adaptable. That's one of the things that I'm— you know, if you look at like Eskimo culture, they're eating, uh, and talk about in kind of medical terms, they're eating large amounts, quantities of fat and blubber from the whaling, their primary source of food. You know, now we kind of move around and all so much that we don't really adapt to any staple of food. Sometimes staple of food is, is it depends where we are, right?

Yeah.

And they adapted where their livers are able to deal with that type of thing. Or you look at blue zones where people live, where they've been in, whether it's in Sardinia, Italy, or even areas where they've been plentiful amounts of very good content, so to speak. People have— people adapt. And so we're very adaptable. I'm not suggesting one go eat a beef jerky diet, okay, and just do it But we're very, we're very adaptable. And I think you gave a really great example of, you know, sometimes people call this a form of therapy, you know, a meditation retreat or a dude ranch retreat from the busyness, the interruptions, the inability to detach ourselves.

Right. And absolutely.

And I'm sure that coming back to the other world, you may have learned a few things that you took with you, but it was maybe not as easy as you think to readapt even after 2 weeks.

Right, right, right. I— it was so overstimulated. It was so noisy when I came back.

Right.

Yes.

You notice— you notice the difference. So I think depending on individuals or social groups or businesses in their lives, if you're seeing that it's not successful, if you're having that sense of stress or that lack of rhythm and routine, This is where you start, you can use some of these principles, right? Like circadian rhythms that I was talking about, where we know when our cortisol levels are best, what happens to our blood pressure, when it's best to engage, when it's best to do detail work.

Okay, let's get into that. Like, let's back up and for those that might not understand what circadian rhythms are, could you explain that? And then how, what does that look like when it comes to Routinology, as you call it?

Right, you know, there's a lot of rhythms in our body, even the way our electrical system works to beat our hearts regularly, you know.

Okay, yeah.

And one of, one of those rhythms, which are endocrinology, is the hormone, are essentially hormone theory, and be more basic on a molecular level. If you have to wonder why it is that we go to sleep, and people still don't know the exact why, they know how and what happens when we go to sleep, and And they know what happens in the physiology and then how things change and how to wake. And some people you might know and others, and maybe yourself, once you get patterned, you wake at the same time.

Oh, definitely.

So what's happening there is that our body has a physiology that's probably been developed so that we can be most active at the right time of day to be able to be successful, to engage, to in the early days to hunt. To find shelter, to find water, and so our circadian rhythms are well-defined rhythms that deal with your blood pressure, how your cortisol, glucose, and other parts of your body are actually working throughout the day. And what happens is, you know, I have people say, "Gee, my blood pressure is up and I've been trying to control my blood pressure in the morning." I said, "Well, don't worry about your morning blood pressure because your blood pressure normally goes up in the morning because of what's happening to your body and hormones and physiology." And so, and this changes over time is from being young to getting older. This, there are changes and some people are larks and some people are owls. And so there's a bit of rhythm about, about that. And actually that can cause issues with spouses or partners because people are not in the same rhythm. And sometimes you have to be very respectful that your body's wired a little bit different and how to work through that. So these circadian rhythms tell you quite a bit of what's happening. And And so things like waking up and exercising, eating what you want, what eats, and then being awake essentially to have very, very diligent, very focused work, particularly in, in kind of today's modern business world or for entrepreneurs. That's the time you do Excel sheets. That's the time you write copy. That's the time you do that kind of work that is computer-based kind of work in the sort. And this is just in general. I'm speaking from 10 to about 2 o'clock. Is a great engagement time. I've talked to recruiting companies, a sales company. I did a little bit on recruiting and sales about when's the best time to engage. And when you're thinking about engaging, it's not when you're best to engage. You want people when they're also best, right? Engaging so you can get the right information and the sort. And this seems to happen. But by 2 o'clock and closer to 3 o'clock in general, you're more— this could be off-shifted a bit. Your cortisol levels drop, your glucose levels drop, you get kind of tired, your concentration begins to wane. And this is why the English have tea in the afternoon. This is why in the Spanish cultures— I'm speaking more European cultures, right? European culture and Spanish cultures, they took a siesta.

Yes.

Italian and French might be having some sex. And if you start understanding what we know about science is that the hypothalamus in this case is part of your circadian rhythms, is controlling actually these actions, okay, to overcome that moment. In the United States, we're going to Starbucks or to our favorite coffee place. And so if you're trying to have a meeting at 3 o'clock or interview someone or try to do work that is very, very specific, like, like I was just on a meeting the other day trying to do financial reports, reviewing at a committee level, and everybody's like nodding off, sitting off. So I used to do this when I did my company. I would— I developed a kind of a ritual and tradition every other week of using this time to really get food and energy in everyone and do innovation talk, more free thinking, more talk about innovation regarding to things that are in our business today and how to be more innovative in our work, which was a little more creative and not so diligent. Yeah, many companies have found that their productivity of employees from 3 to 5 o'clock or 6 in the usual workplace are not really that effective.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. So I just said, hey, especially with this COVID piece, right? I've been asking me, well, how do you— how do you use circadian rhythms and this endocrinology to get back into work? Because— and I've given a few, you know, possible prescriptions about slowly adapting, right? You know, you did the cold shower thing when you went to Canada to, to really be without any technology and more in the wilderness, right? Yes.

Absolutely.

I've told people it's a little bit like a cold shower. You can either just jump in, right, or you can kind of slowly adapt back into this workplace that people— a lot of people are having trouble with this after what I call viral— having this viral threat and a new kind of life of being alone and sheltered and very difficult for many people to get out, right? In fact, agoraphobia has gone up, you know, the actual disease. In this case, I'm not talking about people have disease, but rather have reluctance, right, threats.

And so, um, but on that note, before you move on, um, when it comes to not only people going back to work, they're, you know, everybody's routines got totally screwed up when everybody came home, and then they adapted to that, and then, you know, then they have to readapt maybe if they're going back into the office place. So when you say, you know, a slow adaption. What have you been— what tips and what advice have you been given to individuals or teams or companies in order for them to make this kind of, you know, because it's almost like they've been in a tug of war. That's not— that's not the analogy I wanted, but like a rubber band, you know, that they got pulled home and now they're getting pulled back and maybe they're having to stay home. And that really messes with one's Forget about the rhythms. It messes with one's basic understanding of their routine.

Yeah. One of the things that I try to first point out to understand— some people say, I don't understand. In our industry, we want people in the office. I'm having problems having people wanting to come back. So the first thing that I tell them about adaptation is that what's happened during this such a long period of time, relative, is that people have readapted. And what we notice, and I write a little bit about it in the book, is that how important the home has become, right? How important our environment, which is one of my points about having stable environments, even if you have to take them with them, with you, like the Rolling Stones. So I try to explain to them so they get a little bit of tolerance to understand that there are, in the world of, of, you know, this rainbow of people, that they've readapted to an environment which is difficult to change. They've created a new time bubble, and what you're creating can't be the same approach and time bubble that you had before. So you have to develop a certain sense of flexibility and that piece of understanding. And so some of the things using, for example, circadian rhythms that I've suggested is, look, if people have been working remotely, let them continue to work remotely from 8 to 10, 10:30 at home to do that diligent, detailed kind of work that's very computer-oriented. But instead, where engagement started, or start engaging instead of doing it all through Zoom and, you know, video pieces like that. Let's bring in and start bringing your executives in and then your directors and then your managers and your staff and start having them reengage in meetings, in the basic meetings that you've had to get them readapted slowly. The way I talk about, you know, it's a lot easier to put your hand in the shower, cold shower first, If you get your head wet, your body physiology will start to adapt to the coolness and you can come in. So the ability to not make it a, you know, essentially jump into the cold shower, I think is very— is an important approach that companies have to take. Then as time goes on, you continue to introduce that engagement. People become more comfortable. They feel safer. They feel the environment. They start to be able to be productive. Some people will, will push back and be— you may have to determine who and where you can be flexible in your company. You know, I know a lot of— one of the interesting functions that a lot of attorney firms, the attorneys themselves, you know, who do a lot of really, you know, conference work and detailed work and the sort, as far as attorney work within their company, I don't mean going to trial, of course.

Right.

Started, some of those try to be virtual and the sort. They learned that, wow, we can do this now out of home. And so they're one of those industries, so to speak, that, uh, or professions that can do this virtually. And they— most of the large companies that I've talked to and looked at, uh, have kind of developed a flexible approach for their professionals. Sure, sure. But that might not be the case for their receptionist or their accountants or their bookkeeper, right? So that type of adaptation by bringing people together. And I think on a personal note, if you're like a little worried about that, trying to— if everybody's still a viral threat because you've been kind of convinced and put into a position that everybody's still a viral threat, how do you overcome it? On a personal note, you need that same type of adaptation where you go out and meet someone or bring someone in, but do it in a kind of progressive way which is really what cognitive psychology does for people who have real disease like agoraphobia, where they can't leave their homes.

Right, right, right.

The ability to have to go back and really confront their anxieties.

Sure.

And that's what that is. That's in a very anxious piece. So one has to overcome that and create that new time bubble, so to speak, and that new environment and readapt to it.

Yeah, so be sensitive, be patient, uh, with the people around you. And I think you're kind— I think you're— what you're also, um, you know, what I'm finding to be the foundation of everything that you're talking about, especially when it comes to helping your employees and helping your, your staff and whatnot, whether it's remote or in person, is also just have a plan. Like, just don't make a decision and throw it out there, but intentionally plan out what you need to do for your, for your team, for your company. So it doesn't create havoc.

And that's— yes, that's really important. You know, I was interviewed also in the Entrepreneur article about what are the things you've learned in the emergency department to deal with crisis. Right. And we just talked about that. And one of those, which I'm not sure I write about it in the book besides you have to have, you know, so if you have a— so people think that emergencies, when you go in an emergency room, it's very hectic and seems like it's not organized. But in fact, you're organized to deal with that type of unknown situations.

Right.

And what that means is first as a team. And I talk about this in that Entrepreneur article. I think it's off the web page as well to access it, as I talk about those things you can do to save your company, so to speak, from a crisis. And one of them is, you know, first in the respectful part, that you just spoke to, that I've talked about understanding, is to have a real sense of decorum. Okay. But on the other hand, as a leader, the second thing is that you do have to have someone in charge. You know, it can't just be overly collaborative, especially in crisis. Somebody is in charge as the voice. They do things very respectfully and the sort. And then you kind of got to not sweat the small stuff, as I talk about, you know. But one of the other points that you made that brings up the thought— you made that point very well— was that you have to have some standard operating procedure. You have to already have some procedures and some thoughts and some organization on how you will deal when this situation happens now or again. So that's— those are all the type of ways. And in the book, I do talk about even in the worst situations where people's lives have been completely disrupted, whether it's my mother who was in Auschwitz or my friend Charlie Plum who was in the Hanoi Hilton in Vietnam, you know, in a war, or whether it's today's Rohingya refugees from Myanmar or Syria, or even in a little bit more wealthy, you know, way, like even today, the migrations from urban to more rural, you know, openings. We have to, even in the worst situations, a little bit of routine, a little bit of something that's created even when there isn't much. And I talk about this, helps us and the body find meaning and purpose. Absolutely. And our life by repeating it and doing it over and over again.

Absolutely.

I think this is very, very intrinsic in our nature.

Well, and I think everything that you're saying too applies to, and a lot of companies don't think about this. But even when there's turmoil in the company, like say that there is a new management team that all of a sudden comes in, or then say that there is all of a sudden rumor that they're selling the business or they're merging with somebody else, or, or, you know, I mean, the leadership team needs to recognize that even those things need to be grounded in creating a routine with, with their people, whether that's communication, whatever the case might be, wouldn't you say?

Yes, absolutely. And I think, you know, I did a lot of merger acquisitions, bringing two cultures together.

Me too.

And so I think you understand the importance of having a process, right? And having some timeliness and regularity to it. And what I see often is that people might have a process. I see this also because I do a lot of work on strategy. Okay. And people have a process, but they don't become timely about it. They don't follow it. You know, even in strategic— when one develops strategies, there was a nice RAND research study that looked at Fortune 500 companies that had developed strategies. And they looked at those companies' strategies and they found that almost 98% had really good strategic plans relative to their mission. Right, to their mission for that time, but only 2% executed the plan. Oh, so the ability to, just to your point, to, to, to, to have a process, have a procedure, always change. And right, but the ability to be successful deals with making sure that you kind of stick to it and execute it. And that's kind of a little bit of the repetition, right? And, and also the, the amount of, the amount of time. And so in the book, I do talk about one example that I thought was really good about a crisis like that was the CEO Johnson of Starbucks when in Philadelphia, two Black men were turned out from being able to use the bathroom or to hang out.

I'm from Philly, so I knew about that.

And that got worldwide attention. And you want to look at a model of how to deal, so to speak, with a corporate or a smaller business. This is a big business crisis, right? The way that was handled, that policy, the procedures, the approach that they took, that were— that, that was wrong, that we're going to do something about it. The way it was all forwarded, and I speak about that in the book specifically, was very different than issues that happened, let's say, in the airlines with United Airlines, the CEO of United Airlines, how that was handled. So In these crises, having that proper approach and being true to your mission, to your culture, right, answer those crises, especially when it's very public, like a publicly traded company, are very, very important.

Yeah, absolutely. Wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow. This has been fabulous, fabulous, fabulous. Thank you so much, Dr. I, for being part of this. This has been a great discussion and one that's Really timely and very important for people to really get on board and recognize what their routines are and lack thereof and how to put some, some routines in place and how to pay attention to their circadian rhythm so they can adapt.

Correct.

Yeah, this has been fabulous. And I want everybody to do two things for me, if you would. Go to www.il eskovich.com and check, check out everything about him and the work that he's doing. But at the same time, go to Amazon and check out his book, but buy his book, um, The Art of Routine, and share it with your, with your colleagues, share with your friends and family, share it with your boss, and let them, you know, kind of help you and work with you to kind of build those routines in that are going to focus on your longevity and your high performance, because that's a win-win for everybody. For everybody. Uh, so thank you so much. I so appreciate you being part of the show.

My pleasure. Thank you so much.

And for everyone else, please, um, be sure that you are looking for our program, Shedding the Bitch Radio, out on, uh, Shedding the Bitch TV on YouTube, Shedding the Bitch on Facebook, uh, BlogTalkRadio, Apple Podcasts, anywhere you get your your podcast, leave ratings and subscriptions and likes, and be sure to share with us your ideas on topics and guest experts that you would love to hear from. Because here in the Shedding the Bitch community and Ball of Fire coaching, we are really wanting you to have the tools, the tips, the strategies, and the mindset to create all the riches in your work and life you deserve. So for everybody here within, uh, Shedding the Bitch community, thank you so much for being part of the program, and I'll look forward to seeing you here next Tuesday at noon Eastern time for another episode of Shedding the Bitch Radio. Take care, everybody. Bye.

Thank you for taking part in Shedding the Bitch Radio and TV with Bernadette Boas. We would love to know what your biggest takeaway was. Go to Shedding the Bitch on Facebook or YouTube and leave a comment. You can also subscribe to the show on Apple Podcast and YouTube so you don't miss a single episode of the show. And with your input, we can help other powerhouse women just like you find the show and decide if it's right for them. Learn more about Bernadette at balloffirecoaching.com. See you next week.