Breaking Old Self-Perceptions and the Glass Ceiling with Jenn Adamson

Despite the proven capability of women in key leadership roles, many women still deal with the internal battles of imposter syndrome and perfectionism, which is hindering their success in work and life. Our guest, Jen Adamson, is going to help us unravel the struggle and explore the root causes of these issues and so much more so we can reshape self-perception and self-worth amongst women. We will discuss practical strategies, coping mechanisms, and mindset shifts that can help you overcome any of these internal struggles so you can navigate the challenges, build resilience, and confidently lead transformative changes in your work and life as a powerhouse leader. Stay with us. Welcome, welcome, welcome to Shading the Corporate Bitch, the podcast that transforms female corporate executives into powerhouse leaders. By showing them how to shed the challenges and overwhelm along with any fear, insecurity, self-doubt, and negativity holding them back. I'm your host, Bernadette Boas of Ball of Fire Coaching, bringing you powerhouse discussions each week to share tips, advice, and sometimes tough love so you create the riches in your work and life you deserve. Jen, how are you? Welcome.

Hi, Bernadette. Thank you so much. I'm so great. How are you doing?

I am fabulous. I am doing absolutely fabulous despite the chill in the air. It is a beautiful day and I'm so happy to be talking to you.

Likewise. I thank you for having me on your show today.

You are very welcome. So before we dive into this fabulous conversation we're going to have around self-perceptions and imposter syndrome and a number of things, Tell our listeners and viewers a little bit about Jen.

Yeah. Oh, I love that question because I love that we can take the titles away and the achievements away and just get back to who we are in our essence. So I'm Jen Adamson and I live in Colorado, in Northern Colorado with my 6-year-old daughter. I'm a single mom and in my soulmate love relationship with my partner of 2 years. I love anything that I can do outside in nature. I love yoga, and I really just— if you can find me in this fall weather, just curling up with a book and snuggling up with a cup of coffee.

Well, Colorado is perfect for, you know, outdoor activities and, and whatnot. So that is fabulous. That is fabulous. So as I mentioned, I want us to really dig into this subject around women, despite how much they're advancing, they still are struggling with these internal battles and these internal barriers, as you call them. And so first off, let's back up and say, what are, what are some of the old self-perceptions or even perceptions that there are out there still when it comes to women's success, their leadership, and a number of other things?

Yeah, I love this question. And if I may just share a little bit of context first as to why this is so important, and then I'll come to answering your question. So I coach executive women and female entrepreneurs in a lot of mindset techniques and ways to regulate their nervous system so that they can feel as relaxed as possible as they advance as they expand into further levels of possibility. And I love my job. I love empowering women. That is my mission in my life. But I came across this unique study that I thought was— it blew my mind and I'll share what that is. But I knew by being a coach and myself personally being a high-achieving woman, I've battled with things like imposter syndrome and perfectionism myself. And it is always a work in progress for me as well, full transparency.

Right.

But when I came across this study, it was done by Harvard Business Review back in 2019. It mentioned that he did a study, a representative sample of about 360 women who were at some very high level of, in their jobs and their positions. And what they found out was that— so this overall study, the overarching study was that they said Harvard Business Review, keep in mind, very high reputable organization said that they find that female leaders outperform their male counterparts. Now, no shame. I love men. Like I mentioned, I'm in my soulmate love relationship. We're not here to dog on men. That's not my, that's not my jam. Right, right. But what they found is that women leaders significantly outperformed their male counterparts. And what's interesting, Bernadette, is in this study, they found that the ones that were rating them, their managers and direct supervisors, most of them were men, which is interesting, right? Because I will say that there is, there is unconscious bias and there is bias. And, you know, I, speaking as a white woman, I come from a lot of privilege. I will admit that, right?

Yes.

So there— and not to say that this is not an issue, and I don't want to sweep that under the rug. But what I found, what they found in this study, which was staggering, is that when they actually asked the women to rate themselves, they weren't as generous.

Sure.

Weren't as generous. And This just illustrates to me, and hopefully to your readers, how prevalent our self-perceptions of ourselves as females and female leaders, and how that actually can hold us back.

Right.

Because if we see the proof right here that male leaders are really strong, we can outperform our male counterparts because we have amazing super, superpower qualities to ourselves. That are easier to come by, why are we then holding ourselves back? There is a statistic that only 4.9% of Fortune 500 companies are actually run by a female CEO, and that number continues to decline around the world. Right. What is the— what is holding us back? And so, so to go back to your question, I wanted to illustrate how this is so important and why this is such an important topic is The common things I see among my clients is that I'm not good enough, the fear of being found out, that I'm going to be a fraud, that they're going to find out that I'm a fraud, and that I should really— I'm inadequate or I don't belong. Those are very much the common narratives I see. And oftentimes, I know this doesn't just happen in a vacuum. Right.

And where do you think that's all stemming from?

Ooh, yes. So let's take— well, let's just take some basic Sociology 101. I read a book, this was about a decade ago, and I can't— I believe the title of the book was The Cinderella Effect. And I can't quote who the actual author was, but it was mind-blowing for me to realize that she had, you know, resources, all of these resources of studies, but the overall message of this book was that little boys and little girls are socialized differently.

Sure.

So oftentimes, and we don't— this is, this is in the unconscious. This is oftentimes things that we say that we don't even realize that we're saying, or we might be carrying this energy towards until we actually talk about it. So they've done studies of how little boys and little girls are raised. And little boys are often said to be tough, be brave, don't cry, win the game. Little girls are often told, be careful, be nice, don't get hurt, don't do that, you might get hurt.

Quiet.

Quiet. Quiet, keep the peace, right? So how can this not carry over into our lives many years down the road? It's really interesting. I actually caught myself saying this recently to my daughter as she was going across the monkey bars. I was like, oh, be careful. And it was like, mm. You got this, girl. Keep going. You got this.

Yes, yes, I absolutely agree. And this is kind of jumping to the solution, so to speak. But if we were talking to teenagers or young women just going into the business world, and I, you know, I have 22 nieces and nephews and a good chunk of them are in that 22 to 28 year and half of them, if not more, are girls, women. You know, what could they be doing now that maybe some of us, at least some of us that are very seasoned, didn't necessarily focus on until we were later in our, you know, later in years. But what are you seeing and what are you recommending even to women who have children like you?

Yeah, I love this. So all sorts of ideas are coming to me. But the one thing I'll share, one of my formulas that I love to share with women is I call it— it's the 3 C's and the 5 C's. So really starting off with the 3 C's, which is consistency, courage, and compassion, and more specifically, compassion towards ourselves, because we can be our harshest critic.

Yes.

So if we can use those 3 basic ingredients in life, flavor to your own liking, right? There's no one way to bake a cake. So these are just those 3 basic ingredients. As if you need the flour, the sugar, and the eggs for a cake. This is the same thing. And then you can add more things. So it's the consistency, courage, and compassion. So first of all, any time we want to make a significant change in our lives, we have to start focusing on the 1%. We can't expect ourselves to be these masters or these experts in some industry or area of our lives without first being consistent and doing a 1% improvement every day. So the biggest thing that comes to mind is for, you know, your— the group of women that you were talking about, younger women who are entering into the workforce, self-esteem, I think, is a really big component to this, is having a strong sense of self. Understanding the unique skill sets that you bring to the table, even if you are coming at an intern or a junior level right now. Right. Understanding that you do belong. A lot of times imposter syndrome is stemmed from this belief that we don't belong at the table. Yes. Or that we don't have anything to contribute.

Well, now I'm gonna kind of like speed it up forward, but I'm gonna come back to the young women. But let's educate the young women. Why would the women— what are you seeing? The women that are in their 40s, 50s, even 60s, very advanced, they've climbed the ladder. Yeah, they've climbed the ladder. So the young women in their 20s would be looking at them going, oh, they're not insecure, they don't have any, you know, imposter syndrome effects. So what is it that— that has prevented them apart from societal norms? Because you would hope that they gain some confidence and some self-esteem over the years to where, you know, they've overcome societal. Now it's just kind of internal. Yes. Why are they still struggling? Yeah, that—

I love this too. So I often see women in their late 30s, 40s, and 50s they come to me because they're burnt out, because they've often been going and really hustling so hard to the point of trying to prove themselves. And now they're depleted in their energy and they're exhausted and maybe at the expense of other things like their health, their relationships, and other things outside of the, outside of the workforce.

Right.

But what I, what I see so often is that, so what tends to motivate women who come to me to work with me is that they still have that underlying, it's not enough, it's not enough, it's not enough. And what has led— and that in a sense of the way has motivated them to be the high-achieving women that they are. Yes. To trailblaze and to spearhead amazing things. But they're now done with that. They've realized that I'm tired of being motivated from something that really is quite depleting.

Yes.

How can we shift this? How can we shift this so that I actually can see and recognize that just by being me and by my life experience and through the achievements that I have brought to the table and the contributions that I brought into the workplace, how can I just allow myself to be and maybe not necessarily try so hard in proving because you already have this proven track record.

Right, right, right.

So the quote that comes to me is, "A rising tide lifts all ships." Yes. So it's oftentimes women who then start to say, "Okay, how can I continue? You know, I want to stay in another 10, maybe 5, 10, 15 years in the position or a position similar to this before I retire. But how can I ease up a little bit, enjoy the journey a little bit more, and also uplift other people around me in the process?" Yeah.

And does— so moving on from into the 3 C's, you know, do they support, you know, the clients to get kind of that shift and that mindset in order to support that new, you know, approach they're going to take?

Yes. Yes. So, so I often see women in that later stage of life who really may have locked down the consistency and the courage. And maybe even some of the compassion too. You know, oftentimes they're very empowered women that come to me, but what I start to see is that they might be lacking two other seeds, which are celebration and connection. Ah. So connection with themselves, connection with others, and are they allowing themselves to celebrate the point, the journey? Like, look how far you all have made it. Look how far, look at this beautiful track record you've created and this legacy that you're leaving and you're continuing to leave, are you allowing yourself to actually celebrate that?

Yeah. So now bringing it all together. So I had you steer toward the younger women who you had mentioned, they just need to get to know themselves. They need to get to know their talents and their skills and what they bring to the table and really build that self-esteem, you said, right? Mm-hmm. And then the goal would be to carry that forward. To when you reach that seasoned level of your career, whether that's late 30s or more so 40s and 50s, then you are kind of tapping into helping others so you can then go about it appreciating it for yourself as opposed to for the hectic speed and demands of everyone else.

Absolutely. But I am Yes. Beautiful, beautiful way to put it.

Okay. Okay. Because yes, because I think it's important to ensure that there's a lot of lessons that the young can take from the seasoned. At the same time, when you mentioned compassion and I love that, have you found whether it's your clients or not, but have you found that the younger generations, the 20s and 30s, are inherently more compassionate in the workplace than when some of us seasoned ones came up and it was all about the work?

Yeah, so, oh yes. So I would say absolutely. I think just the way that, so I feel like technology and its advancements through social media, the internet, all of the, we can connect at lightning speed. We can connect with people from around the world. We know things, we know more things happen We know those instantaneously compared to even just when I had to go to a library to do a research paper and make copies with an encyclopedia, right? I didn't have the internet when I was first starting school. So I think that that has allowed for us to also bring more of these important issues to light, acknowledging, you know, some of these things like the unconscious bias and, and and how that portrays and how that carries into the work life. So I do see, and I do notice a trend with my younger clients. There is a bit more of that compassion. There is a bit more of that empathy. And to even tie it in more, so one of the, one of the reasons why I strongly believe that women outperform men in leadership is our ability to empathize and our ability to connect and our ability to be collaborative as opposed to competitive.

Right, correct. Right. Right.

There's a time and a place for all of it. But those are really strong superpowers that come naturally to us as females.

And we should definitely— and those listening and watching should definitely be leveraging them. And I'll sometimes say exploit them because it's a much stronger word for me than just kind of optimize and leverage. But you're absolutely right. You're absolutely right. You know, use that superpower.

Absolutely, absolutely, right? Yes. And discernment too, right? We're not gonna just like sprinkle it on and be like, like, right? We use our judgment and our critical thinking skills, of course. But that has, there's so many studies and even just with clients alone, I have a client who she started a new position in tech as a leader and she inherited a lot of issues with her current team. And just by taking those few extra minutes to get to know her team, to build that rapport and that trust, the turnover has— it's reduced by 90% in just 6 months' time. They were seeing people going in and out of that organization, and just her ability to connect with her teammates, just a few extra minutes, right, before or after a meeting— her boss now, who is a male and is the executive, one of the top executives of the C-suite, is noticing her and has promotional already on the table for her in the next few months.

I think we need to dig into that even further because, like you, I see it all the time. And therefore, when you say what you just said in regards to a leader should get to know their people, I'll often get pushback, and I'd like to know if you do too. Well, you know, it's work. It's not— I don't need to get to know them on a personal level. And this you know, is at the highest of levels.

Sure.

So when you say spend some time getting to know your people because of all those benefits that you, that you mentioned, what does that look like? What does that truly look like for people?

Yeah. So I first want to preface by saying business is built on relationships. Business is built on relationships. Now I understand there's a transactional piece, there's an exchange. Like if I'm to make a sale with a client, there is an exchange of money for my services and that, that applies to everything in the bottom line. In order to keep our businesses open, we have to have revenue coming in. So yes, there is a transactional piece to it, but what keeps customers, what keeps customers loyal, what makes them raving fans? What makes your employees raving fans of your organization? It's not being seen as a number. It's being seen as a person. Business is all about relationships.

Woo! Yay! Yes. So what does it look like? Like how deep is that manager going with their person?

You don't need to be deep at all. So I was a practicing registrar— I still am very part-time but I was a team lead on a very busy unit. My hire date was March 9th, 2020, and COVID, as we all know, happened. So I was leading 75 nurses and CNAs. And in fact, in those 2 years that I was a charge nurse, I also helped to reduce the turnover rate in an industry that was burning out at an unprecedented level. And it wasn't hard. It was just genuine eye contact telling someone, I appreciate you, Bernadette. Thank you so much. Hey, can you do this for me right now? I got this, this, and this going on. Let people know the vision. Why am I delegating this to you right now? Not just barking an order, but I need you to do this right now because of X, Y, and Z. Or how do you get your team on board for the same vision? You can say something like, I have really high expectations. And I'm confident that you can meet these expectations so that we can hit X, Y, and Z goal. That, oh my gosh, that does something to the brain and it lights it up because you're seeing them and you're seeing their potential and their possibility, right? You're not speaking to their weakness, you're speaking to their strengths. It's so simple. It's taking a moment beforehand and asking people, how was your day? Or what are you grateful for? Or tell me a fun fact about yourself in 30 seconds or less. And then using those and not just using them for face value, not doing it because Jen is saying so, but really paying attention and taking a moment to— so down the road when you're like, hey, John, how are your kids? How's Susie's ice skating practice going? Exactly. Right? That means think about how that makes someone feel.

Yes.

It's about making people feel a certain way. It is really, it does not take that long. It is not that hard. It is quite easy actually. It is.

Now, do you often get the excuse from individuals though, I don't have the time to do that? I mean, like you had 70-some-odd nurses. I don't have the time. Even if it takes 30 seconds, I don't have the time.

Here's the thing though. Think about the upfront investment versus the ROI, okay? If you don't have the time to build a little bit of rapport from time to time, okay, I know we're all busy, we're all going, going, going. I'm not asking you to do more, I'm asking you to do something different instead. Just do something different. Think about the amount of money and time you save by doing something different rather than losing an employee or a whole team and having to retrain and all of the upfront costs that that takes and all of the hardship that creates on the team and the business. I'm losing the word right now at the time. So you have to think about this as a visionary. We have to put our CEO hats on. We have to think of this in the bird's eye view. I know it's so easy to get stuck in the details and the nitty-gritty and to be in the trenches, but also as leaders, it is our responsibility. Good, great leaders take their team to those visionary results. They have that vision and they are able to lead their teams. It's not about doing more. It's just about doing things differently and recognizing the costs, the true costs of losing employees and wasting resources if you don't do this differently.

Yes. And would you say too, kind of hit them where it hurts when it also hurts them or it benefits them.

100%. 100%. When we lose team members and our team or the culture or the morale is inefficient or not a supportive environment, what are we doing as leaders? We're staying— we're the ones, we're the ones up at night worried about where we're going to go and what our next steps are and how this is— what this is going to look like. We're the ones that end up spinning our wheels as a result. Right. So do yourself the favor to absolutely do yourself the favor of setting yourself up for success.

Yes. Love that. Love that.

Love that.

All right. So that was awesome. Now I want to kind of continue on with— we talked about some imposter syndrome issues. One of the other areas that you really focus on with your clients, and it does impact women more so is around perfectionism.

Mm-hmm.

So one, what does that look like? Two, what is the impact to that leader plus the people around them? And then what ideas and suggestions do you provide your clients?

Yeah, absolutely. So perfectionism can actually be— if you take imposter syndrome and you look at it as the umbrella, perfectionism can sometimes fall, not all the time, but it can sometimes fall under the umbrella of imposter syndrome. And that whole premise is about, I have to do things 100%. Things have to be done 100% perfect, 100% of the time.

Yeah.

And often I will see women who say, I have to do it all myself too. I can't delegate this because no one's going to do it the way that I want it done.

Yes.

And to some degree, sometimes there may be certain projects that require a little bit more of that. Oversight, but at what point too are you creating that unnecessary hardship and, and the energetic expense that it takes to carry the entire load when you have a team? And that's what they're designed to do. So perfectionism is, yes, about I have to do it 100% of the time and it has to be perfect 100% of the time. And what that does is that puts so much pressure on ourselves, unnecessary pressure. They have done studies of this as well, where women will look at a job opening and they will compare that to men. You know where I'm going with this. And women will say, well, I don't hit every checkbox, so I'm not going to put myself in the hat for this opportunity. And what that ends up doing is it literally holds us back and keeps us from further advancement and further opportunities. So a tool that I love to use that was given to me a few years ago is if you can be 70% there, it's enough, right?

Enough, right?

You don't have to be 100%. And I think we're all safe. All of your listeners can probably— it's probably safe to say, oh yeah, I can hit 70%, maybe even a little higher, right? Use that as your compass, as your navigation system.

Yes.

Trust yourself enough that if you know 70%, you can reach the 100% in time when it's needed, right? And you have a team as well. Oftentimes we have teams where, where our strengths lie or where our weaknesses lie, we hire to those who can play on our weaknesses, who have the opposite, right? So they're complementary. So I might have a weakness in— I'm just throwing something out there— in administrative work and the details and the backend of tech. So then I will look to one of my teammates to be— who's really strong in that to help me and to navigate that as well. So trust yourself enough to utilize your resources.

Yeah. Now, is it really trust, or do you find that even women at significant levels of a business, they aren't very self-aware? Like, they haven't done the self-assessments or the 360 assessments or that taking the time to really understand where are my strengths, my skills, my talents, but where are my gaps and my weaknesses? Do you find that, or does your clientele pretty much kind of have that self-awareness and self-assessment already locked in?

I get what you're saying. I would say it's a good 50/50. So it really just, it just depends on the situation and the person and their background. I would say about, yeah, I'd say 50% have some really in-depth insight and self-awareness, and then another 50% likely doesn't because they haven't— we don't, we don't learn these things in school. And there is no judgment or no shame to this. It's just that this isn't oftentimes a thing that's really promoted or encouraged.

Yeah. Well, it was also— have you found that? Because there was a time only, probably up until like the last 5 or 7 years where having a coach meant there's a development issue.

Yeah. Yes.

Whereas today, having an executive coach or whatever coach means that you're actually kind of wanting to develop and wanting to grow. It's not about necessarily needing to improve, but wanting to improve.

Yes, yes, exactly. So the way I like to use the word coach is kind of like forward is like momentum. So often you've reached a certain level of achievement or success in your world, because I believe success is a subjective term depending on what fits for your own definition, and you want to continue the momentum because we're humans, right? And so we need the support, we need the accountability. It really is so helpful when we have someone in our corner that we know can support us in— I like to use 3 different ways— either the rock, the cheerleader, or the speed bump. So a coach really embodies those 3 levels of support. Now, we often in our day-to-day lives will have people in our lives who maybe want this, that, or the other, or maybe a combination of 1 or 2. But it's very rare to have someone in our day-to-day life and our normal circle of people in our social life that can fit all 3. So the rock is the person who— I'll start with the easy one, the cheerleader. Easy one. We all have a cheerleader, I'm sure. The one who's like, I don't know what you're going through, but I believe in you. You got this. And I'm cheering you on. So I had a lot of people when I was working up towards my TEDx talk that were my cheerleaders and a lot of people on social media who were also my cheerleaders. And I'm so, so grateful for that. And then you have the rock. It's the person in your life who, when the going is tough, you are, you are down in the trenches. It is hard. You are only, you are literally putting one foot in front of the other and you can only see maybe 100 feet out in front of you. Your coach is your rock, the one who is supporting you and holding you and, and asking you the questions to dig deeper so that you can come through onto the other side. And then we have the speed bump. The speed bump is the person in our lives who we might need to slow down. We might need to, hey, let's step back for a moment. Let's reevaluate the situation. Where might the gaps be? Where might be some of these missing puzzle pieces in the most graceful way possible and sometimes in the smoothest way possible, but that's not always the case. Sometimes it's going to be a little bit of—

Yes.

Building destruction and then building back up, but is that okay? How can we look at this from this 360 view, bird's eye view? What do we need to do? Where's, where might we need to scale back? Where might we need to put our focus on? So Coach really embodies, a really good Coach will embody all 3 levels of that support. That's the way I like to use to help people to understand.

Yes, yes. And the fact that it's not just about like it was in the past, that it's a negative. It's an absolute positive and proactive and constructive, wouldn't you say?

Oh, 100%. 100%. It's about the present and moving into the future. And we— I truly believe as humans, we do— we can be limitless in the sense of the way of when we hit— maybe we think like, I know 2 years ago where I am now is where I wanted to be 2 years ago, but If you were to ask me, oh, I'm good. No, I want to keep going. I'm just getting started now.

Right? Yeah. You don't want to stop? Absolutely not. So let me ask you one last question around coping mechanisms. You talk about coping mechanisms. And so share with us, what can women do to kind of deal with these challenges that we've been talking about, these internal barriers, as you call them?

Oh yeah, I love this. Thank you for asking this question. So the biggest thing that really coming from this very foundational place, we can't build a house until we've created a strong foundation. And going back to the whole basis of how we started this conversation was imposter syndrome in our self-perceptions. We as humans, okay, but I'm going to speak specifically to females. We need to feel a certain level of safety and connection. Both within ourselves and within outside in the outer world. That's the only way that we can actually step into expansion. That's the only way that we can achieve our goals. Because if we, we all have achieved goals, there's a big, big gap of the unknown. It's the gray area where as much as we can plan and project and predict certain things, it's not always going to go as planned, right? And so to feel that sense of safety and connection within ourselves, and what do I mean by that? I mean believing in ourselves, believing that we have the skills, that we have the resources, that we have the support, whether it's within ourselves or looking towards our communities for that support to take it one step in front of the other so that we can reach those goals. So it's also, again, going back to knowing who you are, knowing what your strengths are. It's that also that connection going back to the relationships. There's actually another piece to imposter syndrome, which is the soloist. It's the person who thinks that they should do it all, all by themselves. And although that is possible, one of my most favorite quotes, it's an African proverb. It says, "If you wanna go fast, go alone, but if you wanna go far, go together." Yes, love that. And yes. Yes. Yeah, me too. I love that quote so much. So it really is like that to relate back to, it's that sense of safety and connection. So how can we do this? What are some tangible ways? Well, one is just checking in with yourself. I am a big proponent of seeking therapy. If you don't have a therapist, I say go and look for one right now. There's again, you know, just as like coaches used to be 10 years ago, there was a stigma. I think sometimes there can still be a stigma. I think we've done a lot as a society and as a collective to open our minds and our hearts to therapy, but our mental health is priority number one. We have to start with our mindset and our mental health because if we don't feel good, sure, physical health is absolutely important to you coming from a registered nurse, I say that, but if we're not consistently in the right headspace, we are going to lack those times where we lack the motivation and our— Absolutely. —might go down. So you leaning onto your resources, leaning onto your support, Also, just some basic, if I can share some, sleep. Make sure— there's so many studies out there that the quality of life is really determined by one key thing, and it's the quality of our sleep. Go to bed at the same time and wake up at the same time as much as you possibly can every day. If there is one thing that your listeners could do, like, what can I start with right now? It's focus on your sleep. Focus on your sleep. Another one that I recently heard was just 5 minutes of morning sunlight does something to the brain and it switches on certain neuroreceptors. And it's fascinating. And so even if you can just have your coffee out on the porch or if you have a sunroom and just be in that morning sunlight for 5 minutes or take your work outside for— from time to time.

Yeah, I do that all the time. Yes. I absolutely agree with you. I love this. This is awesome. I appreciate all these magnificent tips and strategies and insights because there are some of them that I wasn't even aware of. And I'll definitely be looking into that Harvard Business Review study that you had mentioned.

Yes, I can send that to you. Absolutely.

So I appreciate that. Well, this has been fabulous, Jen. I so appreciate your time and your wisdom. Likewise, Bernadette.

Thank you. This was such an amazing conversation.

I think you're so, So, so, so welcome. And everyone, please go and check out Jen. Go to jenadamson.com. Be sure to kind of look at what she does and how she could support you. At the same time, follow her on LinkedIn and Instagram. You could do that at @iamjenadamson. I love that. I am Jen Adamson. So you can follow her both on Instagram and LinkedIn. In. Jen, thank you again.

Mm, thank you so much.

What a powerhouse Jen Adamson is, and what a great conversation we had all around self-perceptions, self-worth, imposter syndrome, perfectionism, and so much more. We covered a great deal, and I'd be really curious as to what you took away from it. And so be sure to go to LinkedIn and leave me a comment or ask us a question, and I'll make sure that Jen even gets ahold of it as well. So go to LinkedIn @BernadetteBoas and be sure to leave your comments. But let me tell you what I walked away with. There was so much. So she talked about a 2019 Harvard Business Review that basically spoke to the fact that female executives outperform male leaders. So if you've been doubting that or questioning yourself around your contribution and your worth in the workplace, it is proven that women outperform male leaders. Now, as Jen said, this isn't about a male-bashing, you know, conversation. This was more so making sure you understand that if you are dealing with any type of imposter syndrome or self-doubt or questioning your worth and your value and what you're contributing, then you really need to stop, not only for your own mindset and your own self-care, but more so because most likely if you were to ask your male counterparts, they would say the same, that you do outperform many of your peers. So I absolutely love that. And then she did talk about her 3C model that she uses when it comes to really helping women reframe how they perceive themselves. So she talked about consistency, courage, and compassion, and then even expanded it to 5 when necessary, which included celebration and connection. So I wonder what you took away from her kind of digging into especially those first 3, because it was quite powerful. And then she really also discussed how as leaders our job is to connect with our people to get then the best and the most out of them. Not necessarily quantity-wise most, but more so their potential and their, you know, just bringing their best to their job. And so she talked about the fact that it just takes a few minutes to really get to know your team members to the point where then they really feel trusted, they really feel connected, they really feel engaged and valued, and therefore will show up and do what it is that you need them to do, even during difficult times. But it was a conversation ripe, ripe with tips and strategies and things that you could be taking away right now to really propel yourself forward and be that powerhouse leader that you're meant to be. Another note, I am so grateful that you were here with us for this episode and for this conversation with Jen, and I'll look forward to having you for another episode of Shedding the Corporate Bitch. Have a beautiful, beautiful day.