Changing The Shape of Corporate With『 EMMA CLAYTON 』

Welcome, welcome, welcome everyone. Today on Shedding the Bitch, we are digging deep into changing the shape of corporate with our guest mentor and career transition coach Emma Clayton, who's also the founder of Modern LeadHer. When women bring their whole selves to their leadership roles, it will shift the shape of corporate as we know it from the traditional masculine makeup to a more balanced place to work and serve the world from. So we're going to dive in with Emma. We're going to dive in why you feel like you don't fit into corporate world as a female leader and how to drop the mask of fake confidence and step into authenticity. And then she's also going to discuss with us, which I'm very excited about, a model for CHANGE. And CHANGE is an acronym that she's using. All right, so let's do this.

Are you ready to create riches in your work and life? It's time for Shedding the Bitch Radio and TV, where you can discuss, debate, and get advice on how to discover and shed the bitches of fear, insecurity, self-doubt, and negativity so you can realize your dreams and life purpose and create and accelerate the riches in life you deserve. So let's welcome your ball of fire host Bernadette Boas.

Emma, how are you?

Hey, I'm so good, thank you. Thank you so much for having me on.

Oh, absolutely. Now, we were talking before we jumped on, we were talking about the sweltering weather where both of us are, but where are you exactly? And share with us, if you would, a little bit about Emma, just so we can get to like, know, and trust, and do with you.

Mm. So I'm English in case you couldn't pick that up from the first couple of sentences. So of course the weather is going to be the first topic we talk about. And so I'm in the southeast of England in a small town, closest point to France actually called Dover. You might've heard of the White Cliffs of Dover, Dover Coast, beautiful part of the world.

Absolutely.

And, um, I'm, I live here with my dog Buddy and my partner Adam. So we have a little Airbnb in our garden, which is where I'm actually sat at the moment chasing the shade, the last bit of shade in our garden. And I, I'm sure I'll get into it, but my, my background is I had a 20-year career in corporate, and since 2017, I've set up my own coaching business, and I'm just launching a new branch of that, which is Modern Leader, which I'm excited to talk more about.

Absolutely. All right, so first off, we'll— we're gonna kind of go back and then come forward. Um, so first off, what made you leave corporate in 2017 and start your own business?

So I never imagined I would ever leave corporate. It was not part of the plan. And I would say for the last sort of 5 years of my career, I was like really pushing and striving for that next promotion. So I was a vice president and I was going for the director role and I got the director role. It's kind of handed to me on a plate. And I was like, it was a big risk because it was like a project. So it was being set up outside of the organization. We were looking at startups and technology and how potentially we would be disrupted from the outside in. So it's really exciting. I took on the role of strategy and operations lead. And got to travel to Boston, Massachusetts to set up a team there as well as in London in King's Cross. And I knew it came with a bit of a risk and I didn't consider myself a massive risk taker, but I was, I was game for it because I thought the worst case scenario is this role doesn't last that long and I get made redundant. So it's the first time I'd considered that that wouldn't be the end of the world. And actually, I had a great time in that role, albeit I also had the flip side of that, which I'm sure we'll get on to. And I was faced eventually with redundancy, a severance package, I guess, for you guys in the US. And that came with basically a big decision, like, do I stay or do I go? Because I had people offering me roles to stay. They were creating roles.

Sure.

Um, that would have given me— bought me some time to find something else. And I had— I was actually holidaying in Bali, which is a very, um, chilled place, and I just really set an intention to get clear on what I wanted to do. I knew this was happening, I knew this was coming up, and it was almost like that real intentional space and time away to sink into what else could I do with my life for the first time in my career, um, really opened up all these other possibilities. And at the time, I was on a journey of, um, like overcoming my own, should we say, demons around food and body image issues and stuff like that. It's actually in Bali with my health coach at the time, and it just kind of— I've just been to yoga and we've done this meditation, and that was all new to me as well. I wasn't really into that kind of more, the more spiritual practices. And I, I swear I just had this epiphany that actually I'd come so far on my own journey of healing my relationship to myself and overcoming anxiety and imposter syndrome and that kind of thing, that I just wanted other people to learn and know about these tools and this other way of being, right? So it was in that moment I was— it was decided for me, and I came home and everyone was shocked. That I, um, said that I was leaving, and people tried to talk me out of it, and they said it won't work. People come back after taking a redundancy in 2 years when they've spent the money and they want their job back. And that made me even more determined never to go back.

Go girl! Go girl! That's awesome. I love that, especially because your calling obviously swelled up within you. You followed it, and that's a great lesson. So maybe you can turn that into— that's a great lesson for all the women that are listening right now is what would you, what would you say you've learned from that, that other individuals, just from that little point in time, because we're going to talk about a whole lot of other stuff, but that little point in time, what would you tell someone?

Create space. We don't have space in our lives to, to get out of our heads. I don't mean space to think. We do enough thinking, right?

We do.

We have all those thoughts going around in our head all the time. This is creating space to get out of our head and like just tapped into something a little bit deeper. And I don't think I'd ever done that, and it was intentional. So there was— I created the space and I set an intention to use that space and that time to really tap in. So even on the plane, I had my journal. I was doing pros and cons, fors and against, like Do I stay? Do I look like if I stay, then these are all the good things and these are all the against. So I kind of start, I really use that time to, to go deeper. And, and I think actually, interestingly enough, when I had that kind of epiphany land, and I don't think it always happens like that. So don't get me wrong, I'm a realist. Like, I wasn't expecting that, but I had food poisoning. I had Bali belly, right? So you go to Bali, you get Bali belly.

Yeah.

So I hadn't eaten for about 2 days, and I think because of that, I wasn't clogged up in that sense either. So I'd been on this yoga retreat and had all this, like, lovely morning yoga and silence before breakfast and journaling and stuff like that, as well as a bit of partying. But then I had this Bali belly where I was actually empty in the sense that I hadn't been— like, a big thing for me is like stuffing down my emotions, feeding myself, secret binge eating. I didn't do that for 2 days and I was kind of clear, and it meant I could hear more. And it was hearing, hearing not your thoughts, but something that comes deeper. And when you hear it, you go, oh, where did that come from?

Right?

That was that deeper knowing. And so it's creating that space and setting an intention to hear beyond the thoughts. Right now it doesn't sound too woo-woo.

No no no no no no no no no um I'll take it back— I'm sure it will to some people because trust me when I say you know 10 years ago or maybe even 5 years ago all this sounded woo-woo to me same here but at the same time I think what you're also expressing to anyone listening and watching is just even if you don't get a chance to go on every retreat or vacation or find that you know, kind of that space away from where you are. You can always do it, wouldn't you say? You can always do it right where you are if— I love the word that you used— so if you could go into a little bit more of intention, intention, because I think that's key, right?

Yeah, yeah. So this has been a game changer for me because I guess I've always been very goal-oriented, like growing up. I joined corporate at 18, so it's kind of all I knew. I went from school to corporate, and so I was very like, I could get shit done, right? Are we allowed to swear on this podcast?

Okay, good, good.

Um, so I, I was really known for that. So I, I would take a goal, I would meet deadlines, I would help other people meet them and make sure we, we delivered. And I think with intention, it's, it's softer And it's more from like, it's how do I want to feel in achieving all this stuff? Because we go through our lives achieving and never really stopping to go, look at what we just achieved, right? And like, I feel like this because of it. We're just on to the next thing. So an intention for me is, is softer. It's like, how do I want to feel in embarking on this whether it's a goal, a project, a thing, whatever it is, how do I want to feel? So is that in inner kind of goal, if you like. So it's a softer intention. It's not something that has to be done. It's not something you can necessarily measure, but it is something that you can— that can keep you a little bit more focused on something other than that end delivery goal, right? You can check in with how you're feeling.

Yeah, women are so and aggressively, desperately trying to get to that end goal, you don't necessarily need to force it.

Yeah.

Is that what you're saying?

Yeah. Yeah. Or just enjoy the ride, right? It's like, it's like if we like— I climbed a mountain the other day. I mean, it's a low mountain. It was 1,000 meters above sea level, but it was grueling enough. And in doing so, it's like I was so up in my head about getting to the top. I had to remember that, like, I love views. Like, let's just turn— let's just look at that view behind us. And like, how am I— like, actually, I— the first 2 hours were amazing. Like, there was a waterfall, there was the sound of water, there was— the sun was making an appearance, which in Wales is, you know, it's few and far between. So we were celebrating that. And, and it's— so it's kind of like, rather than just like head down, let's get to the top, let's get to the top, okay, we're at the top now, let's get back down again. And tackle the next mountain, right? Let's just enjoy the ride. And actually, at the point that you go, oh my God, I'm struggling here, let's just honor that as well. Let's just go, yeah, I'm not as fit as I wanted to be. And like, like the whole thing, all of it, let it all just be part of the climb, the hike up the mountain, right, to get to that end goal.

Yeah, gosh, I love that. I absolutely love that. All right, so now we're gonna kind of come forward. Um, you have your for since 2017. And then I love this whole modern leader, Lead Her, Modern Leader. Where did you kind of come up with this concept?

So this is relatively new, so I love that I got this opportunity to speak to you about it because this has been on my heart for a long time. And Lead Her was something that I heard again, it was like I heard it but it wasn't a thought. And I kind of just made a mental note of it. And then the next time I heard it, I jotted it down in one of my many journals. And then I think before I knew it, I— it was going round and round in my head, and I wanted to just explore where this was coming from. So for me, it made sense because what it's always been for me in terms of my coaching business and the people that I serve, the people I just like dearly want to help, is it's been about the female leader. So it's basically people who, like me, were pushing and striving, or are still pushing and striving in that corporate space to pursue their careers. They want to be successful. They want to continue their down the leadership route. So they are, they are female leaders they don't necessarily always feel, um, like they are worthy of having the salary that they've been given, the bonuses that they get. So there's a, there's an element of that external, externally facing. People go, wow, she's successful, she's got it all. But actually internally is a different story. So I know for me it's always been about wanting to help her be able to feel as good on the inside as she is portraying on the outside. So for me, Lead Her is that it's a female leader, and the modern piece on the front of it, it all clicked into place for me because I realized that the reason I had so many struggles, if you like, with feeling like an imposter and putting on this, um, good show. Like, when I left, people were like, I didn't realize you were anxious or weren't as confident. I thought you were really confident. I was like, yeah, I fooled myself almost. Yeah, I still struggled on the inside, right? Um, so I realized it's because I didn't feel like my real innate kind of skills and qualities of things like being able to read the room and call out the elephants and know what's not being said and go, I've just got this gut feel that like something's not right here. I didn't feel like that was valued or of value around the boardroom table.

Sure.

Because it wasn't the analytics, it wasn't the numbers, it wasn't based on hard facts and what we've done to, you know, analyze the crap out of things in the past. It was like a feeling. Goodness, God forbid we talk about feelings, right, around the boardroom table. So I suppressed these kind of, these nudges, these, this intuition, if you like, that I kind of, I knew how to make decisions, I knew which way to go, but I felt like I had to toe the line and we had to analyze it for a month before we could get to that decision, right?

So Absolutely.

So for me, the traditional leadership model is out of date because it doesn't— it's very masculine in its approach. Because let's face it, corporate was created by men for men. And for like until very recently, um, or even the company I came from, which was a a very— it was a Swiss company, so it's a very polite company, very inclusive. Um, but that you look at their board and they're 90% gray suits, white males. Um, and generally the female was from HR, right? So, and I'm sure that's not just the company that I worked in.

No, absolutely not.

Yeah, so I think for me, modern leader is the woman that can bring— that can basically set down that mask of fake confidence, as I call it, and bring her whole self to the table with a true confidence because she knows who she is, she knows what her skills are and her qualities, and that she brings those, and she's kind of unapologetic about potentially being misunderstood. And, and in doing so, I believe the more women that are leading from that place, the quicker we will shift the workplace balance. And by that I mean we get more of a feminine touch in there. And not to, like, not to discredit the masculine approach of analytics and strategy and goals and all that kind of thing. Absolutely necessary. But let's address the balance a little bit because I think it's been tipped, um, way too heavily weighted towards the, the kind of more masculine strategy, right?

Because when you say feminine or masculine, you're not necessarily saying gender, you're, you know, right? You're saying from a feminine perspective, let's bring some emotion in here, let's bring some— the fact that we're not robots and that these are human beings with a lot of inner turmoil and inner beauty and external. And let's just recognize that we're all human. Is that what you're saying?

Yeah. So we can be strategic, and we've, we've really learned— so we've really learned to be strategic, for example, as women.

Absolutely.

And we have this— and I, I believe men have it too, but I think women naturally have this innate intuition, this kind of inner knowing, gut feel, call it what you want. So we have strategy, but let's, let's rely on that intuition as well. Let's, let's value our own knowing. Yeah. And this is a knowing rather than a no— an intellectual knowing, right? Right. This isn't— this is a— this is a wisdom.

Yeah.

That lives within us. Rather than that kind of intellectual knowing. As well as, should I say, right, right, the intellect and it's the intuition.

But do you find that, um, men, men probably possess it as well, but because the fact that, like, you use the words analytical, you know, because of the fact that they're so analytical and they're not wanting to bring emotion, you know, to the table, that they don't I mean, they have it, but they're just not at all tapping into it or recognizing it or wanting even to acknowledge it. Do you find that often?

Yeah, I mean, it's a generalization, right? And I don't want this— I don't want to make this about a male versus female thing when I'm talking— when I'm talking masculine and feminine, it's like, like the two sides of one coin, right? Right, so we— I think let's, let's look at some of the more feminine qualities that I might be talking about. So things like showing vulnerability, right? Like, I actually know men in the corporate world that I came from that were very good at sharing the more vulnerable side, like bringing in stories, right? And do you know how powerful it is Right. When you hear it, when you see a man— I don't mean he has to cry in front of us, but he's just sharing some perhaps more vulnerable moments, um, and they generally come from story, right? This is my genuine lived experience and I want to share it with you because I had a takeaway from that and I believe it could help you too. So there's that vulnerability. I think women are, are more okay with showing vulnerability. I mean, you've only got to look at suicide rates, for example, to see male suicide rates are much higher than female, right? And you've got to ask, is that because they're not— they're afraid to show that vulnerability? And women are more likely to seek help and more likely to, to say to a friend, I'm struggling. So again, it doesn't have to be that, that deep in emotion, but a bit of vulnerability. Um, let's take empathy for example. Um, I know, like, my, um, I know many men again that are very empathic. Um, my other half is not, um, but he gets it when it's explained to him in a certain way. Um, empathy for example, just, you don't have to understand what's going on for someone else, you just have to be with them and go, "It's okay to have whatever's going on for you." And I don't think there's enough of that. We don't, we don't allow the humanness of our employees and our staff and our team members. We don't allow them to bring their whole selves. But actually, when we as leaders can show that it's safe to do so because we're bold enough to show a little vulnerability and be empathic towards our team members, then it makes it okay for them to do it too. And it's those kind of qualities. Emotional intelligence is another thing. I know you've had this as a topic on your, on your podcast before. Emotional intelligence for me, so one of the things that I was told was through my leadership development program actually, was that I was very, like, I was a barometer. I could, I could read the energy or the emotion in the room and I could go, hang on a minute, we're going down this road, but actually I sense this is going on. Now, I thought that was emotional intelligence, and like, having 5 years out of that environment, I've learned a few things about emotional intelligence, and I feel like emotional intelligence starts with yourself. If, if I'm going home and eating McDonald's and shoving down some chocolate from the petrol station, the gas station, before I get home to eat my dinner with my partner, and I'm getting rid of that, that's not emotional intelligence on my part, because I'm not allowing— I'm suppressing my emotions that want to come out, probably because I faked it all day and now I'm so exhausted I just want to like have some release, right? So I get emotional intelligence on another level. And all of this, all of this I'm talking about starts with how you're leading yourself first, behind closed doors, when no one's watching, right?

At home, at work, correct?

At home and at work. Um, yeah, it's, it's like, who are you being? And if you are being someone different in those different situations, and you're— and I don't mean like we're doing it on purpose to deceive, it's just what we've learned to do, right? Right. So if you feel like you're wearing different hats in different scenarios, of course you're going to in certain situations, like with your kids, you're going to talk to them differently than you would do your pals. But it comes back to, there could— that incongruence is showing us perhaps that we're not bringing our whole selves to every situation that we could.

So, so I'm picturing, um, because trust me when I say, you know, that's where Shading the Bitch came from. I was a pretty tight up, you know, tight, tight you know, rigid, uh, definitely not personal in any way, shape, or form. Um, so how do you break that, you know, you know, how— not break that cycle— how do you get someone, um, one of her, uh, how do you get her to see this? And then, you know, what, you know, what do you walk them through? And I know we're going to talk about, you know, a model for change Um, so how do you exactly go about kind of breaking down the walls and opening up the heart, um, in order to make these shifts?

Yeah, so maybe I talk about the change model now because this is something that I just realized this is how I worked. It wasn't like I sat down and I thought this is going to be my process. It was after a period of working with women for the first year or two, I thought actually I I take them through a process here. So it is an acronym, as you mentioned earlier. So the C is for conscious awareness. So this is just, we're gonna get really aware, really conscious of our thought process. So we're just gonna tune in more and more. What's going on in that meeting in your head when you're, when you're wanting to say something, but actually you're, you're holding back from saying what you really mean? What's going— what are you thinking right now? What's going on in your head? Um, and how are you feeling? And what do you do next? Because all this is like gathering, uh, it's a process, data gathering process, right? Um, so that's the C, and we spend a long time in, in the C. And this is, this is true for, um, when I started, I started working with women who had, um, I guess struggles with binge eating and body confidence. So it was true whether I was dealing with that or whether I'm, I'm working with someone that's leading in the corporate space or aspiring to lead in the corporate space, right? Um, so the conscious awareness is like something that it doesn't stop at the next point, it continues and it grows, and the more you notice, the more you notice, right?

Right.

The H is actually for healing because this is, I think, um This is one— I guess I've been on a healing journey for about 7 or 8 years, if not more, perhaps a decade. I do, we do. Um, I first walked into a therapist's office when I was 33, I think, and, um, I've never looked back since then. My life changed on that day, um, because new awareness is about myself, right? New awareness is about why I think the way I do and how I— why I behave the way I do, because I think and feel the things I do because of what happened to me perhaps when I was younger that I didn't actually place any, um, importance on, just part of growing up. Absolutely. So healing for me is such a critical, um, piece of the puzzle, and I think everyone should have a therapist or visited a therapist if they haven't. I think it's more— it's more taboo still here in the UK to talk about having therapy um, or counseling or anything like that.

Overall mental health is still—

it's— I mean, it's like there is a big movement, especially in corporate. I think there's a lot of lip service played to, um, to mental health and that space, whether or not— I think there is still some outdated, um, thinking about the, the whole topic, right? Um, however, I believe we just like— I think we just need to even talk about where we came from.

Absolutely, absolutely.

Yeah, one of the, one of the first conversations I have in getting to know someone, in establishing trust and learning about this person, I just say, tell me about your life. I don't want to hear everything.

Well, isn't everything— isn't part of CNH and actually everything that you're talking about and being a modern leader, isn't it like letting go what I call shedding, but letting go what you what other people think of you and, oh my gosh, with what you believe in yourself. So you, if you want to take care of yourself, go to a therapist, go whatever you have to do, and not worry about all the stigma that's out there.

Yeah, absolutely. No, no shame, no shame.

Exactly.

So what's the A? The A is acceptance. So we can't kind of move on to what we have, like I call it the process of unbecoming because we're so obsessed, I think, in the personal development space of becoming. Like, who am I becoming? Like that next level. Get to— and I was in corporate. I, like, I got to a vice president and I couldn't wait until I was a director. I got to a director and I was thinking, oh my goodness, this ain't all it's cracked up to be. Um, and I just think we, we can't move on to that becoming piece until we've gone through a process of actually Who are you really? Because you've been, you've had so much conditioning through your childhood, growing up by your parents, like from school, from your teachers, from your friends and their families around you, from like if you went into corporate like me or whatever job you went into, there's conditioning in there as well. So we are conditioned like, like we would do if we went to the gym and we worked on our muscles. We are conditioned to behave in a certain way. And think about a certain way and believe certain things. And actually, how much of that, when you strip it back, is core truth for you and who you came here to be, I guess?

Love it.

Um, love it. So that's the first— so get— when we get to the point of acceptance, it's like, okay, I'm in a, in a bigger body, but actually I'm so worthy of taking up space in this world as much as the next person. So let's, from that place, let me move forward, right? Rather than hating what I see in the mirror, um, for example, which was part of my story too, right? Um, so acceptance is just that beautiful, um, point where you go, yeah, actually what other people think of me is actually none of my business. Who said that? Was that a Byron Katie quote?

There's a lot of people who claim it's not my quote.

I must put my hands up.

It's not mine either.

But it's been, it's gone over and over in my head to really change that thought process. Like, I used to fear my skirt blowing above my knees in case people saw how fat my knees were, and it affected my performance at work. Like, sure, like, this was a thing, right? And actually, well, first of all, probably no one's looking at my knees. And if they are, who knows what they think, and who cares? Like, nowadays I don't give a toss what anyone thinks about me. But that mantra had to be something I replayed: what other people think of me is none of my business. It really, really helped. But I had to—

that was my—

was it?

Yeah, absolutely. Um, I didn't hear it like that though. I heard it like, um, um, you'd be surprised at how little people think of you. Yeah, that's what— and I literally had to sit there for like 2 years with that statement because it made no sense to me because I was so not narcissistic, but I was close. And I'm like, what do you mean no one like cares and isn't paying attention? And then all of a sudden it hit me like, oh crap. So I love that. I absolutely love that. It's none of your business. It's none of your business.

It just brings you back to like back to back in the room, right? Like back in the here and now, right? This is all that matters really to start with.

So what's the end?

So from acceptance we can move into our new identity. So this is like, who are we becoming now? Now we've done your shedding, we've shed the bitch, we've unbecome. And what is that? I call that— yeah, I think one day I'll write a book and it will be called Unbecoming. And it's like a homecoming as well. So it's like a reclamation of self. It's like, actually, I am good enough. I'm worthy of taking up space in this world, and I shall move forward from that space. And so, yeah, stepping into the new identity. So in Modern Leader, it's like, what kind of leader do you want to be? Who are you as a leader? And actually staking a claim, claiming a stake, you know what I mean? Putting a stake in the ground. My analogies are not good in this heat. Um, and then from there we kind of grow. Like, I've got— like, for me it's, it's like, it's go time. The G is go time. We're growing into that kind of new identity, and the E is very much the embodiment of that. So when— this is where I'm saying, like, who are you behind closed doors? When you can truly say that how you show up to the world is how you also behave and act when you're at home behind closed doors, and there's no line of separation, there's no hat or mask you put on or step into when you walk out the door, that's when you know you've embodied it. That's when you can be a role model for other people and show that this is how, um, it gets to be. This is how you get to show up unapologetically as your, your whole self. That's in whatever environment.

That is fabulous. So I want to ask everyone listening and, and watching out there, and be honest because it's only to yourself, we can't see you, but you know, so tell Emma, are you authentically you or are you wearing a mask? Answer that for yourself based on everything that Emma's been talking about. We're not done yet, but I just wanted to put that out there because it just triggered me. Um, because I know all about the masks. I don't wear any anymore, um, but at the same time, so I think, um, for those of you listening and, and watching, please just answer that question truly honest to yourself because it'll be your first step to, um, then engaging with Emma. And I have her website, uh, below. It's emmaclaytonexo.com for those of you listening. Um, but, uh, be sure to, to be reaching out to her because, um you know, you don't want to spend any more time kind of living inauthentically with masks on. Um, so I love that, I love that model, I love that change, I love the process of unbecoming. And so all of you should, uh, check everything out that you can about Emma, um, at emmaclaytonxo.com. But, um, How, how do you work with women? Like, what exactly— is there not a process? Because we just talked about one. But what's your approach in, um, working with, with women? And how do they not only reach you from a contact perspective, but more so, where are they and what are they thinking, and/or what, what needs to provoke them to want to reach out to you?

Yeah, so generally they, um, and I noticed this is a bit of a pattern, and, um, so I've kind of held on to this because I really enjoy being part of their lives at this point. But it's nice, they're going through a transition in their career. Generally, that's when they reach out to me. And so that could look like they've decided that it's time to leave and seek another job, and they've been offered a promotion, or they've achieved, like, they've actually got a promotion and they'll be stepping up into that. It could be that that promotion's from a technical role into a leadership role, so it's their first kind of people leadership role. So they're very much, I call it the career transition phase. And there's also like a step before that, which is like that readying stage. So they've been identified as a top performer, or they, they themselves know that they want to pursue a leadership path, and they may be putting forward for like leadership development and that kind of thing. So it's that transition phase, and I've worked with women that have, like, one of my clients at the moment, in our first 6 months working together, which is all we planned to do, but we've continued, she actually went from a technical role into a first leadership role, from, it was a promotion from a vice president to a director, and she moved from her home in Sydney to Singapore. So all of this change, oh wow, in a very short period of time. And I supported that transition. And now, sort of month 7, we're now looking at what I call the upgrade, which is now you're stepping into really being that leader that you want to be. You're, you're defining what that looks like, and you're going out and you're being her, right? Because we've done the work to support the transition and go through the change process, right? So we're now at that kind of end stage. We've done—

so I'm curious, are they coming to you directly, or is there like their lead, their manager, or HR who has identified them, you know, in these transitions and they're wanting to give them extra support?

Yeah, so both. So the majority up until now has been private, and I'm— I've started having conversations in the last 6 months or so, um, with corporations to see how I can support people that they identify. So obviously that's a different, um, way of coming in, and it's not necessary they found me and they want to work with me because they resonate with the story that I'm telling, but the company sees some— sees something in them that they feel like I can support with. So I love working, um, one-to-one with women, and that tends to be how we do it virtually So my lady in Singapore, I've worked with women in the Middle East, Australia, um, and the East Coast of the US. So as well as the UK, obviously. Yeah. Um, so we can work virtually. I also love in-person things. So, um, I'm sat here in my Airbnb in the garden, and I actually have hosted, um, like 2-3 day retreats where we've done this kind of intensive work. So I love like I'm a relationship kind of person, so I love getting to know the women that I work with. I become their kind of their confidante, their big sister friend. I hear a lot people say, I've never told anyone that. That's what a lot of people say to me. So I really kind of, I think, naturally create this kind of very safe space to be very open and very much yourself, because I want to know who you really are, right? Because I can help tease that out. So yeah, one-to-one work has been my kind of like, um, I've loved doing it. I've also had a lower kind of entry-level kind of exploration-y type of membership that actually I, I closed down last year. And because of Modern Leader has been born I'm going to be looking at very much changing that, similar vibes in terms of it's going to be accessible to many because I want to make a big impact, right? If we're going to change the face of corporate as we know it, I need to reach more people. So I really want to create a network I'm calling it Next Gen, the next generation modern leader, and this is for new and aspiring female leaders. In corporate, so that they can actually go through— I'm calling it the A to Z of mastering how you lead yourself first so that others will follow.

Right, awesome. That's— oh, that's— that is— I'll call it sexy, but that is cool.

I like that. I'll take it.

I like it, I like it. So what would, um, what would you tell someone if someone, like, as soon as we get done here all of a sudden picks up the phone and calls you, uh, what, what is one tip, or maybe a little bit of a number of tips, what that you, that you would tell them that they could just start doing right now to, to, um, almost like the process, process of Unbecoming, but to, you know, really kind of start tapping into who they authentically are and want to be?

So I think one thing that I love to do is a bit of a timeline exercise, which you might do if you've had therapy or something, but it's not, it's not like a therapy tool as such. I literally just write, sit down with a blank sheet of A4 paper on its side, and I write a line, and I kind of go back as far as I can remember. Well, this is what I would encourage them to do, as far as I can remember. So maybe I remember that first memory of when I was 3 years old and I was playing around a friend's house and they were twins. And actually, I didn't, I didn't think they were very nice. And I might put that kind of below the line. It wasn't like a, like, it's just a memory. Okay. And then, and then I remember that I went to gymnastics and I really loved that. So I put that above the line and I was probably 4 or 5 when I started gymnastics. And I just go through my life and I just sit and reflect. You have to create space for this, right? You have to create an hour or two in your diary, be away from the kids, shut out the noise, like sit with a nice cup of tea, be comfortable. Have a nice pen and just sit and explore, like, like reflect on your life, because we don't do this. And it amazes me how many people, when I sort of suggest this is one of the first things we do, they go, 'I've never done that,' like, 'I've forgotten about that.' Yeah, I bet. And then, and then we can— it kind of just gives you, I guess, a a refresh on where you've come from. Like, this is who you— this is all the component parts that make up where you are today and kind of how you got to where you are, right? Um, and then the next thing, the next practical thing, which is actually, um, it's, it sounds— it's very simple to do, but actually it's quite hard to get in the habit of doing, is checking in on your thoughts, which I know you talk a lot about. And we've got to understand, um, or the first thing I say is don't believe everything you think, right? Yeah, we've got to start discrediting some of the bullshit we tell ourselves or that comes up in our head, um, because it ain't true. If you look at your timeline, there was something that happened on that timeline that meant you now have a thought that comes up today that says you're not good enough or you're not worthy enough or you don't really deserve to be earning that sort of money or you can't speak out, you can't open your mouth in that meeting and say that because little girls should be seen and not heard, right?

Right.

Those little things, it starts to make so much sense. So that's where I always start, and it's something you can do on your own. You can keep a little notepad, like notes in your phone of the things, and you'll notice patterns. Oh God, I said that 3 times today, or I'm still thinking about it, I'm still ruminating on that one thought. About this particular event. And then 3 days later, it's still there.

I love it, love it, love it. Oh my gosh, you and I are like kismet, you know? Maybe we're sisters from a different mother.

I'm sure.

Yeah, because I just love, love, love your story, and I love what you're doing with it, you know, to then help others. And the whole Modern Leader is just powerful. Powerful, Emma. Powerful, powerful. Um, so thank you so much for sharing everything that you have.

Uh, thank you for inviting me to. It's been an absolute pleasure.

Oh, absolutely. I could talk to you forever, and you never know, I might have to have you back to kind of like continue, you know, and, you know, continue to help these individuals, these women, to, um, in my words, to be the powerhouse, to— but to be a modern lead her, in your words.

Yeah.

Um, so thank you so much for that. But everybody, please be sure to go and check Emma out and everything that she does, emmaclaytonxo.com. But also follow her on Instagram, and her Instagram, she makes it easy, is emmaclayton.xo. And make sure you put that .xo because I went to, you know, follow her and there's a lot of Emma Claytons, but— and there's even Emma Clayton's exos. So Emma Clayton @emma.xo, um, and be sure to also follow her. But Emma, thank you so much for being here.

Thank you.

It's been awesome.

It's been so good. Thank you so much for just bringing it out of me as well. I love talking about this stuff in case—

Oh well, and you can tell how passionate you are about it. And I just, you know, the, the various things that you shared in regards to your story, how it led into what you're doing overall as a coach, but also your change model, um, is just fabulous. And then the whole process of unbecoming, um, so ladies, you can certainly be sure to, um, kind of understand exactly what you could be doing to fit into the corporate America or corporate world, um, more authentically and naturally, as well to how to drop the mask of fake confidence so you can step into your lead her Raw. So thank you so much, Emma.

Thank you.

And for everyone else, be sure to check out, um, all of our episodes of Shedding the Bitch and, um, and this week's guest, Emma Clayton. And then join us right back here next Tuesday at noon Eastern time for another episode of Shedding the Bitch. We'll see you soon. Bye.

Thank you for taking part in Shedding the Bitch Radio and TV with Bernadette Boas. We would love to know what your biggest takeaway was. Go to Shedding the Bitch on Facebook or YouTube and leave a comment. You can also subscribe to the show on Apple Podcast and YouTube so you don't miss a single episode of the show. And with your input, we can help other powerhouse women just like you find the show and decide if it's right for them. Learn more about Bernadette at balloffirecoaching.com. See you next time.