Confident as F*ck: How to Stop Leading Through Fear

Even in your leadership style and position, do you still feel as if you don't belong at the table? You can be brilliant, experienced, and even more qualified than others and still feel like you're one meeting away from being found out as a fraud. That's not a confidence flaw. That's conditioning. So in this episode, our guest, Rachel Lawrence, mindset coach, and author of Confident as Fuck is here to reframe confidence as a leadership habit, not a personality trait, and to show why waiting to feel confident keeps high potential professionals overlooked and underpaid. We're tearing apart why imposter syndrome hits high performers in leadership so hard, especially in midlife, when the rules you were taught no longer fit. And performing, pleasing, and staying quiet starts to cost you real opportunities. We're talking about the hidden tax of playing small at work, whether that's overexplaining, the apologizing, and silence in the rooms where decisions are being made while less capable voices are taking the lead. This conversation will help you spot where imposter syndrome is running the show. Build confidence through daily self-trust, and choose one bold move where you're done shrinking starting now. You can go to rachellawrence.co.uk to learn all about Rachel and check out her book, just released, Confident as Fuck. This is your invitation to stop proving, stop performing, and finally take center stage. Stay with us.

Welcome to Shedding the Corporate Bitch, the podcast that transforms today's managers into tomorrow's powerhouse leaders. Your Bernadette Boas, executive coach and author, brings you into a world where the corporate grind meets personal growth and success in each and every episode. Let's do this.

Rachel, welcome, welcome. How are you?

I'm brilliant. Thank you so much for having me on your show. I am so excited to be here.

I am excited as get out to talk about this subject for sure. Help me understand What was it about this subject? Maybe what was your life experience as well when it comes to feeling as if you needed to help others become confident as fuck?

My journey with confidence started in my early 20s, and I didn't have great experiences of working with women leaders. And I was put down, embarrassed, humiliated in most of my job roles in my early 20s. And it had such a detrimental impact on my career that I decided that I couldn't work for anybody else and that I had to be self-employed. So that took me on a journey of becoming self-employed. And even now, when I look back on that and I think, It was a horrible time, early 20s, first time walking into corporate and experiencing weak women leaders. It was, I thought, I can't do this. And so that was the first experience of me really understanding that you don't have confidence in your early years, and especially when you're walking into a new industry, it's just, you just don't have it. You have to build it. And so I stepped out of corporate and decided to start my own business, which is what I did. And I stepped into coaching. And I did that for a few years because I had a relationship breakdown after I donated my kidney to my ex-husband. And I'd been with my husband for 13 years and we had our daughter together and we went through the donating of the kidney. And then all of a sudden our relationship just broke down and I broke, I literally broke. And it took me a little while to put myself back together. And during that process, I found coaching. And I understood how powerful and how helpful it is for anybody, but in my sort of late 20s at that point, it was especially helpful to walk through that journey and rebuild my confidence. So that was the first couple of times where confidence played an important part in my early career, but it really came. More into being when I was approaching 40s and we had the pandemic and we were all a bit lonely and I had to pivot in business and my confidence took a massive hit and I couldn't understand why I was feeling so scared and not able to pivot in my career or put myself in rooms where I knew I belonged but I didn't have the self-worth or self-confidence to step into it. And I really struggled with it. And I realized it was a midlife wobble and that everything I had learned had to be relearned all over again. And I had to think about all the strategies that helped me in the twenties and how they can help me now in my forties to step into confidence and step into visibility to start something new. And so that's— a very rough journey of how Confident As Fuck came.

And I'm sure many of our listeners and viewers are hearing your story and they're just like, oh my God, that's me, that was me. But I have a number of questions I want to drill into from what you explained. What was the detrimental experience that you felt? What does that mean when you say it was very detrimental to you. What was the impact to you?

It meant that I wasn't able to speak up. I wasn't able to put myself forward for promotions. I couldn't even do my job properly because I was so nervous of having all eyes on me, and the consequences of doing something meant that I was going to be shouted at, embarrassed, humiliated in front of a room of people. I just, it really made me shrink into a version of myself I don't recognize today, but it held me back in my twenties and thirties when I could have been putting myself forward, really building my career in a great corporate environment. But I just couldn't do it. It really, it had such an impact on me. I just didn't feel good enough was the bottom line. I didn't feel good enough to be in the corporate space.

I'm sorry you experienced that, and shame on women leaders that you mentioned that made another woman feel that way and experience that shame.

Yeah.

Now, but what I found profound in what you said is you then went on to describe these women as weak leaders. So what did you observe about them that made you say that they are weak, as opposed to a number of other things you could have explained why they were doing what they were doing.

So experience and wisdom have now taught me that they were leading through fear, and it was their fears, their stuff, their shit that they were putting on me. And as a young 20-something woman, I didn't understand that at the time. Now, as a 46-year-old woman, having stepped away from that environment and actually now watching my 19-year-old daughter step into the arena, and I'm having to coach and mentor her through situations, I understand that these women were weak because they were just leading through fear. They were putting all of their stuff onto other women to make themselves feel good, to make themselves feel powerful, to make themselves look good in front of The peers.

Wow. And we call them bitches here, those things that people project out onto others because of their own insecurities, fears, negativities, and doubts. So I absolutely love this. Now, what I found also fascinating is, so you went in your 20s, you went and sought coaching for yourself, which you found very helpful to really identify and transform. But what was even more powerful is that in your 40s, you reached back in to those lessons in your 20s to then get through and transform again when you were struggling once more during the whole COVID. What were those lessons from your 20s that you found so significant that you reached back into that— those lessons to help you in your 40s?

I suppose the main one is having that experience in my 20s made me shrink and made me not step into opportunities that I would have stepped into had I had the confidence. And of course, now I'm in my 40s, I don't have time to let that happen again. So I had to remember what that felt like, not putting myself in the room for promotion, not standing up for myself, the consequences of not doing that. I had to remember what that help— that felt like, so that in my 40s, when I'm now having to pivot from a business that took a hit in pandemic back into coaching again and helping other women that are experiencing similar things, I really had to lean into those feelings of, I am good enough, I do have a lot to say, I've got a world of wisdom and experience and knowledge that can help me now and other women. And I am not shrinking anymore. I'm not becoming invisible to make other people feel better. I've got a lot to say. I've got a lot of helpful things that can help other women. And I don't have time now that I'm in my 40s to not say what I want to say.

So two things is when you say you don't have enough time, because I'm a number of years older than you, and I have never really thought about that. I've never thought about, I don't have enough time anymore. So what comes up for you, or what was coming up for you in your 40s during this period around time?

So I was wasting a lot of time with imposter syndrome, not posting something, not sending an email, not showcasing my work, not announcing the next thing in my coaching practice, what I wanted to launch. And I was spending days, weeks, months trying to perfect something so that it was perfect before I put it out in the world, because I was scared of what people would say, or if it was going to be thrown back at me and it's not good enough or what have you. And so when I say I don't have time, I don't have time for that. That I need to make decisions quicker. And how do I make decisions quicker? Well, I step into my main character energy. I shut down my inner critic. These are my strategies that I teach in my book. So when I talk about time, it's I no longer have the time or the capacity to have those feelings inside of me, to have them stop me doing what I want to do.

You just used a couple of concepts from your book. And forgive me, I might not have captured it right. Your inner critic. And then you said something about your character.

So main character energy. Whenever I'm feeling scared, or whenever the women that I coach feel scared about doing something, whether it's sending the email, going for the promotion, stepping out of a shit relationship, all of the things, we talk about if you were the main character in the movie of your life, what would she do at this point? And 9 times out of 10, main character Rachel would be you, you do the thing that scares you the most because it's the action that builds your confidence. Nothing else is going to build your confidence. It's a habit-forming strategy that you have to do, and it's only formed with taking the action. So I, when I talk about main character energy, I'm not talking about faking it until you make it. I've been there, I've done that, and yes, it does work to an extent. I'm talking about main character energy being the person you are at your core before imposter syndrome started talking you out of it?

Imposter syndrome, it really is just an evil devil, and, and it affects so many of us when we have everything that we need and in to do what we are currently doing, if not more. How can one get ahead of the curve, so to speak, to really work on identifying that they are either repressing or they do have these insecurities, they do have these feelings of I don't belong, I don't deserve? How can they get ahead of it so it doesn't smack them in the gut impact them long, longer term?

I think it's really important, Bernadette, to understand that imposter syndrome is conditioning. It's being taught to play, to be small, to not stand out and go and sit in the corner and do things quietly. I know men experience imposter syndrome too. I know they do. But for women, we have been conditioned not to be main character, not to stand out, and to be able to recognize in yourself when imposter syndrome is running the show. It's things like what we've just talked about, perfecting something before it feels good enough to send out. It's keeping yourself quiet, not saying the thing that you want to say. It's all of those things that are just keeping you small. And it's just conditioning. It isn't anything else. And if you were able to see yourself as your main character in the movie that is your life and understand, what would I do in this situation? And be able to step into that, even if it's just for a moment, to say what you want to say, launch the thing that you want to launch, get out of that shit relationship if necessary. To be able to take those steps, you start to prove to yourself that you are good enough. You do have a voice. You are powerful. Everything you know is brilliant. You're very capable. And it builds that muscle. And that's how you step into confidence and start ditching the inner bitch. I call her inner critic. I call her my inner bitch.

Is there a step or a process or a formula that you use and/or talk about in your book that someone can— what did you do?

So the first step is awareness. Become aware of when your inner critic is telling you not to do something. Having that awareness first is really important and being able to recognize when it shows up. So when you are minimizing yourself, when you are not doing the thing that you need to do and that you really deep down desire to do, recognize that is imposter syndrome and your inner critic is keeping you from playing small and saying things to you, you're not good enough, who are you to do that? All of those sorts of things that we probably hear hundreds and hundreds of times today and being able to shut that inner critic down quickly. So for example, I had a client, his name is Connor, and he's very happy for me to share his story because he's very proud of it. And he showed up to one of my workshops with a very loud inner critic telling him that he shouldn't be there. Who was he to be there? He's not good enough to go for his promotion, to start dating. And he would share this story in front of a room full of women. And he even said, I'm so scared about sharing this with you. And I just, I don't know what to do anymore. I've tried everything. Nothing works. And so I walked him through a process of being able to flick his inner critic off his shoulder and physically have that action of flicking and then telling it to fuck off. And he got into a habit of doing that every single time he heard the voice. And very quickly he was able to shut it down and replace that voice with something a bit more positive. Yes, I can. Yes, I'm doing it now. I'm doing it. And it just happened. And within the space of just a few weeks, He sent me a lovely email saying, when I walked into your room, I wanted to walk straight back out and everything you were saying just sounded like a load of rubbish, but you made me implement it just for a week and the difference has been profound. And then fast forward a few more weeks through taking on a few more steps that I teach in the book. He then was able, he got his promotion. He had started dating. He had started playing his guitar in local bars and was getting known for being a great musician, and he got a significant pay rise with his work that he had been after for quite a long time. And he just could not believe how— not how easy it is, but how simple the process is to be able to shut down the inner critic and ditch the imposter syndrome. He, he's one of my favorite stories because I talk about this to women, but men resonate with it as well.

Sure.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

Now.

What made him stay though? So he came into the room and he wanted to leave right away. Did he ever explain what he was going through and feeling and thinking that he then landed up staying?

So firstly, he really stepped out of his comfort zone because he was the— he was the only guy in the room, and so he's surrounded by women, and one of his fears was talking to women. And he put himself in a room surrounded by women. So he did literally want to turn around and leave. And he was actually quite hungover when he arrived and he was quite arrogant. And yeah, he was rude. He knows, like we've spoken about it since, he knows he was rude and we laugh about it now, but that was all of his fear coming out. And I could see that was his fear coming out and just getting him to sit down and not participate for a little while, but just listen to the other women's stories. And he resonated so much with what a lot of the other women in the room were saying that it made him feel more comfortable with stepping out that comfort zone, feeling the fear and doing it anyway, and just starting to interact a bit more with the group. And it was actually a 2-day workshop that I ran, and he turned up the second day a completely different guy, very happy to be there, very comfortable. And ready to start implementing a few of the strategies.

And you're not saying— because I want to make sure we do a reality check here— you're not saying that all of a sudden he turned and transformed into a whole new being, getting rid of, as we call it here, shedding all of his own bitches and becoming confident as fuck in that one day. But what do we want our listeners and viewers to have an expectation of? Those small steps that can lead to big results?

For Connor, it was taking small steps daily. That was absolutely key. And it's the same for anyone that goes through this process, myself included. It's showing up for yourself every single day, knowing that you're worth doing that for. And that is fundamentally the most important thing, knowing that you are worthy of showing up for yourself every single day, despite what the world is telling you, what other people around you are telling you. That is absolutely the first step, 100%.

For anyone that is listening and watching who does feel invisible, not good enough, not worthy, what one step can they start doing, like literally an action they can start taking to prove to themselves that they are worthy and deserving and to build that confidence even though it might take time to do it.

Pick one area in your life that you know you need to be more confident in, or you want to be more confident in, and write down a list of things, just a short list, 5 things that you would like to achieve in that area, and take one bold move today. Do it today. Don't, don't leave it. Do it today. Because like I said, it's the habit forming that has to happen. It's the daily steps to improve confidence. But with Connor, it wasn't a miraculous overnight thing. It took a few weeks, which then went into months. And even now, for him, for my other clients, and for myself, imposter syndrome shows up every single day. It never goes away. You just learn how to handle it. And that's being fully honest and transparent. We're ditching the imposter syndrome because we're not allowing it to run the show every single day. We recognize it's there every day, but we're learning how to shut it down so we can do the things that scare us the most. If I was to look at where I am now versus where I was in my sort of late 20s, early 30s, if I was to walk back into that corporate environment now and have those same women in front of me doing the same things to me, There's no way in hell they would have any kind of— they wouldn't get through. It would bounce off me. There's just no way it would be tolerated. So I have a question for you, actually. So when I first started doing some research into yourself and your podcast, I was wondering if you were— if I was in the room with you in a corporate environment and I was in my 20s, would The way you led then be the same as what you would lead now? If having heard my story of the impact that I had of female leaders that perhaps didn't lead as best as they could have done and maybe leading with fear and what have you, would, you know, would you have changed your leading style?

Today I'd be very different leading anybody today. Yeah, but back then I was one of those weak people creating all of that detrimental experience for you and for anybody else and everybody else around me.

But was that because of fear? What was it?

It was because of fear, not feeling worthy, not feeling good enough. But yes, to your point, it was— bottom line is it was absolute fear that was driving me.

And I think it's important for the people who are listening now to understand that if they are facing a boss that is challenging, that actually they've got stuff going on, like you just mentioned, self-worth and things like that, not necessarily showing up because they want to be that person. And I'm not saying give them a lot of grace, right? But I'm saying maybe find that, that sanctuary, that, that place where your understanding what's going on for them and find a way of getting through.

I absolutely agree with you, and I actually do say have pity on them, right? Look at them and have pity on them because they are masking a lot of what I call bitches, and they're projecting that out in a way that they don't even see or care that it's coming across that way, because the idea of facing it like you did— the idea of facing it, and you had the courage to face it and transform in your 20s, let alone in your 40s— is too scary. What was that feeling? What was— what came up in you when you started recognizing that you were changing and transforming and letting all of that imposter syndrome, but letting it go. And now today, as you're saying, you could— you would not ever allow the treatment that you received back in your 20s today. What—

what—

how did that feel for you?

It's so freeing not to carry the weight of it, not to let it hold me back anymore. Of course I still feel nervous walking into rooms, getting on stage, publishing a book called Confident as Fuck. I'm really scared, but it hasn't stopped me from doing it. The freeing feeling of just not giving a fuck anymore and just doing what I want to do. I'm not hurting anybody. I'm sharing work that is genuinely going to help people. And just not caring as much about what people think is wonderfully freeing. And I think if you're a younger generation listening to this, if I had one bit of advice to give to you is just let it go. Don't let this thing control you. Do everything you want to do. Just learn how to step out of that comfort zone and how to shut it down, how to shut the inner critic down. And the quicker you can do that, the earlier you can do that in your 20s and 30s, the world is your oyster. Don't let it grip and control you like it does for so many women, or has done. Don't let— don't be 46 and finally decide to shut it down. Start implementing these things now because, you know, the world is your oyster. There's, there's so much for you to achieve and to do great work in the world and help other women. I do fully believe in passing this message on, helping as many women as possible, right?

And men. And men. We talked about before we came on that your book is drawing a lot of attention from men too, because I think they're dealing with it, but they just don't necessarily discuss it. And then they're also wanting to understand women. So wouldn't you agree?

Absolutely. If they're with a midlife partner and the midlife partner is not doing the things that they want to do because they're frightened, they're scared, they're full of fear, this book will really help the men understand what's going on in us in our midlife and why why it's so hard for us to step into our visibility and to do the things that we want to do. So it's a very useful tool for everybody.

Absolutely, absolutely. So what is the one thing you want readers to walk away with from your book? And you said that there's a lot of tips and strategies in there. What is the one bottom line that you want them walking away with?

It doesn't matter how old you are, you can step into your confidence at any moment. It's a choice. You have been conditioned to not feel confident, but you have a choice to step into confidence, and you are worthy of that. So if you're going to do anything today, tomorrow, this week, just decide that you're worthy of it and step into confidence by doing one thing, one thing now that's going to move you towards Ditching Imposter Syndrome.

Love it. Because like you said, you don't have time to— if you have dreams and goals and ambitions, which are not a bad thing, you don't have time to deal with all this crap.

Yeah, we just don't anymore. We don't have the patience or the tolerance either.

Your book just got released, and so where can they find your book?

Head over to Amazon. It's Confident as Fuck. That's where you can find it.

That's awesome. Everyone check out her book. Also go to rachellawrence.co.uk to learn all about Rachel and the work that she does as well. Be sure to follow her on Instagram and TikTok. She makes it really easy for us. Rachel Lawrence UK. Rachel, this has been fantastic. Thank you so much.

Thank you so much for having me, Bernadette. It's been a real pleasure.

That, my friends, is how you go out and be confident as fuck. Rachel just gave us so much, from surviving toxic workplaces in her 20s to donating a kidney and rebuilding from the ground up, to hitting midlife crisis or midlife wobbles and coming back stronger than ever. So if you're there thinking, that's me, good, because Rachel's book Confident as Fuck was written for you. Go grab it right now on Amazon and make sure you're following her at Rachel Lawrence UK on both Instagram and TikTok. Her website is rachellawrence.co.uk. Go check it out. Now, if this episode lit a fire in you, then be sure you subscribe to the show so you never miss an episode or one of our fabulous guests. You can go to ballofirecoaching.com/podcast and join us on any one of your podcast streaming services or on our Shed the Corporate Bits TV YouTube channel. Because keep in mind, you don't have time to shrink. None of us do. So go out there, step into your main character energy, and shut down that inner critic and be as confident as fuck as a powerhouse leader. I'll see you next time.

Bye!

Thank you for tuning in to today's episode of Shedding the Corporate Bitch. Every journey taken together is another step towards unleashing the powerhouse leader within you. Don't miss any of our weekly episodes. Subscribe to our podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you love to listen. And for those who thrive on visual content, catch us on our Shedding the Bitch YouTube channel. Want to dive deeper with Bernadette on becoming a powerhouse leader? Visit balloffirecoaching.com to learn more more about how she helps professionals, HR executives, and team leaders elevate overall team performance. You've been listening to Shedding the Corporate Bitch with Bernadette Boas. Until next time, keep shedding, keep growing, and keep leading.