Guest, Duana Welch, Talks Playing Hard to Get is Sexy, Being a Bitch is NOT.

BlogTalkRadio. Hello and welcome to Shedding the Bitch Radio, where you can discuss, debate, and get advice on how to discover and shed the bitches of fear, insecurity, self-doubt, and negative mindsets so you can realize your dreams and life purpose and create and accelerate the riches you want in life. Join us here live every Tuesday at noon Eastern and dialogue with us at 818-572-2910. You can also chat with us at BlogTalkRadio.com/SheddingtheBitch or or share your stories on our website at sheddingthebitch.com. Whatever the bitch is that's holding you back from living your life to the fullest, it's not worth giving up the riches in life that you deserve. So call in now and let Bernadette Boas know what's holding you back. 818-572-2910. Good day, good day, good day everyone. How are you? This is Bernadette Boas. I am so happy you're with us today because we're going to have a fabulous, fun show. We're going to talk about, you know, how being hard to get is sexy and being a bitch is not, as you all know. But our guest is going to delve us into why that's even, um, even more so when it comes to finding a mate or even just kind of someone to hang out with and just enjoying your life. So stay tuned, we're going to have a great conversation in regards to that. I don't know about you, but I'm excited that it is Memorial Day, or it's about to be. I just can't believe that it's actually the latter part of May. It just feels like I was toasting 2016 just minutes ago. So I'm a little bit overwhelmed at the fact that 5 months have gone by already. Those of you entrepreneurs out there, you know, focus on your goals and your objectives for the year. You know, you got to get that whip going. The first half is almost here and gone. And if you're like me and you're already planning for the second half, pretty much if you're not there at this point for at least, you know, May, June, then you'll have some quick, quick, quick recovery to do. And at the same time, if you have personal goals and objectives that you were looking, you know, to accomplish this year, a new job, a new move maybe, maybe to lose weight or whatever the case might be. You know, again, take a look at those goals as you move into the 6th month of the year and do a double check and see how you're doing. And if you need any help, always come out to sheddingthebitch.com, post on Facebook, Twitter, even on the website itself and let us know how we can help you pursue those goals, stay on track, stay motivated. Get out of your head, shed those bitches, and create those riches in life that you absolutely, absolutely, absolutely deserve. Let's see, other than Memorial Day weekend, they're really— I mean, it's good that things are quiet. I have gotten a couple people to ask me if I've, you know, been able to move off the edge of the cliff when it comes to my technology. And I would love to be able to tell you that it's completely resolved. It is not.

That's a whole different story.

And I won't bore anyone again with it this week. I just have gotten into a really good state of being in regards to it. There's a lot of moving parts around it. And the fact that it's not solved sounds ridiculous, but if I explained it to you, it might make some sense to some of you, to some others. You might find it that, yes, I must be absolutely insane, but it'll get resolved by the end of this weekend for sure, and I'll be back, you know, knocking down walls before you know it. Anyway, I can't let it stop me from accomplishing my goals and dreams, so I can't let it stop you or let— similar things stop you. So let's all continue to motivate and support and give ourselves a reality check every once in a while when it comes to what it is that we're trying to achieve in this one lifetime that we have that we always talk about goes really fast, as you can tell being that it is May 24th. Oh, a shout out to my— I do have some rich news. A shout out to my parents, though they are both passed. It is their anniversary today, and it would be their 55th wedding anniversary today. So shout out and a shout out of love to my parents and to my family who are all spending time reflecting and thinking about them today, as they do each and every day. Let me see. All right, we are going to have a fabulous conversation all about this, why being hard to get is sexy. And being a bitch shouldn't even be an option. It may be politically incorrect, but it is factually true, being hard to get helps women avoid the players and bring on the stayers. Those are our guest's words, not mine, and I love them. Avoid the players and bring on the stayers. Yet being hard to get is not about being bitchy, and being bitchy won't get you anyone worth having, and it won't get you anything as we do discuss a lot here on the program. So today we're going to explore the human mating ritual, where it came from, why it's still relevant, and how you can use it to your advantage in life and love. And what are those 3 things that you're going to learn and you really want to listen for? And it's going to be those things that tell us about culture and how men and women are the same other than the fact that we do have different genitals. And this episode will show that culture is incorrect about that, and that when women believe these cultural messages, it hurts us. We'll also learn about the human mating ritual. What is it? Where did it come from? Why is it important? And how to leverage it so we can get rid of the men who are merely wasting our time and our emotions. And I will do a shout out to the single women out there all around this subject, as well as those of you who may be involved, may be married, Yet, the relationship that you are in might not be the most optimal, or you need to figure out how to just continue to bring the fire, so to speak. So we are going to talk about all of that with our guest, Duane Welsh. But before we do, a shout out I do want to make to Deborah Parker of Parker House Virtual Services, our guru social media. Support who will be out there taking your questions, stories, and challenges on Facebook and Twitter. How are you, Deborah?

I'm good.

How are you today, Bernadette?

Good.

Are you and the kids getting ready for Memorial Day, and do you have any big plans?

We are.

My husband has a 4-day weekend, which is nice. And then a little town near here, they have a Civil War reenactment because there's a little—

it's called Fort Tejon.

It's a little place historical place that I guess one little Civil War skirmish was fought. So they do a Civil War reenactment. We're going to take the kids to see that. Yeah, it's going to be a lot of fun. Oh, fun. I'm not really sure what's going on in town around here in Atlanta. I know we have like a Renaissance festival, which Atlanta is known for. I'm not sure if it's actually this weekend or not, but— oh, that sounds like a lot of fun. And then Memorial Day weekend is always fun with kids and pools and parades and parties and all that kind of good stuff. So that should be a lot of fun. Hopefully it will be nice weather. I know it's going to be gorgeous and hot here in Atlanta. Hopefully it will be nice where you are. Yeah, it's supposed to be warm where we live, but this is like 45 minutes up in the mountains, like 45 minutes away.

So they are like 4,000, 8,000 elevation, something like that.

So it should be a nice day. Ah, fabulous. You can't beat that when you are going to a festival, to be up in the mountains on a beautiful day. Yeah, sweet. Well, we're going to take a quick break, everybody. You sit tight, stay tuned. We're going to have a great conversation. We're going to introduce our guests and your rich question for the day when we get back. We'll be right back. You are listening to Shedding the Bitch Radio with Bernadette Boas. Be sure to check out her book, Shedding the Corporate Bitch: Shifting from Bitch to Rich in Life and Business, available on Amazon or sheddingthebitch.com. We also want to thank our sponsor, TSRtax.com, who offers a broad range of tax services for small to corporate size clients.

We'll be right back.

Welcome back, everyone. Well, as I introduced at the top, or before we went on break, you know, we might consider it politically incorrect being hard to get. And thinking that it is kind of going to hurt us versus help us. And yet our guest, Dwina Welch, will dive into how women can actually be hard to get and that be a benefit to them, allowing them to avoid the players that are out there. We all know them and we've all met them. And bring out what she calls the stayers. So our guest, Dr. Dwina Welch, is known for using social using science to solve real-life relationship issues. Her book Love Factually: 10 Proven Steps from I Wish to I Do is the first science-based dating book that guides men and women through every phase of dating, from before they met until they make a commitment. Duana earned her PhD in psychology in 1998. In 2009, she launched her blog, Love Science: Research-Based Relationship Advice for Everyone. Duana also contributes to Psychology Today and eHarmony. Okay, we can talk about eHarmony. And has taught psychology for 20 years, most recently in Austin, Texas universities. She now resides in Eugene, Oregon with her husband, daughter, and assorted critters. And when she's not writing, teaching seminars, or meeting with clients, she and enjoys embracing her inner nerd, hiking with her dog, and sampling dark chocolate. She is my kind of girl. Welcome to the program, Duana.

Thanks, Bernadette. It sounds like you're my kind of girl too, and I want to say happy anniversary to your dearly beloved parents who have passed on. A big goal that I have is for everyone out there who wants to have 56 beautiful years with a mate to have them.

Yeah. Oh, so that— well, one, that is very sweet of you. Thank you so much for that. And then two, yeah, that's a great way of looking at what it is that you do, which I think is really cool. So I do want everybody to go to her website. I want you to check out her book. And I'm going to lead you to her website to check out the book. And then you can go to Amazon, which has, you know, the audio, the ebook, the paperback. It's available in all kinds of media. But listen carefully, 'cause it's lovefactually.co. Lovefactually.co. You'll learn all about the book, as well as from there you can also find her main site, but also get into Amazon, and the book is on iTunes, and basically anywhere you want to buy a book. But I just love the whole idea of it, and if I could, Duane, before we dive in, I'd love to— just read a little bit, what you shared with me about the book. So after a breakup, little Debbie's chocolate and the charity of friends could not console Dr. Duane Welch, who had the epiphany that transformed the way she lived her love life, leading to verifiable objective answers to her questions and yours. The only fact-based book to take men and women from before you meet until you commit Love Factually blends heart, soul, and science. In a genre long on opinion and short on proof, Love Factually puts all the evidence in your corner for the most important and daunting task of our lives: finding and keeping the one. For more information, definitely, and to get a free chapter, go to lovefactually.co. Well, I just absolutely love that whole thing. I am single myself, and I'm always— I'm on a never-ending Ferris wheel of, you know, always, you know, just putting myself out there, but yet also kind of holding back and letting, you know, the universe do its thing. So maybe you could help me and so many of the others that are listening to the program, because you point out that culture tells us men and women are alike except for our genitals. That men and women should— would be exactly the same psychologically if they were raised the same way. Does the research and the science support that? Would they agree with that statement?

No, not at all. No. You know, and I want to point out that different does not mean less than. The differences that we have, there are only a few, but they're very large, very strong, and they're found in every culture in the world that's ever been studied. So, we don't have different capacities for rational thought. We don't have different capacities for feeling deeply. Men are not better thinkers than women. Women are not better emoters than men. But there are some very large notable age differences— excuse me, not age differences. I used to do memory and aging research, so sometimes I slip back into talking like that. Oh, that's okay.

That's okay.

There are notable and large sex differences in how men and women men perceive the human mating ritual specifically, what they want from the opposite sex, and how they go about getting it. And pretending that, you know, it's 2016, so we can just do what we want. Well, we can just do what we want, but there's a high social price for doing it that way. Whereas engaging in a ritual that is ancient, actually, I know a lot of women think it disempowers them. It empowers them. And actually, I'd like to start with a paragraph that a client of mine sent me yesterday. She told me that I could share this, and I'd like to share her story to kind of, I guess, make us all feel a little bit better about everything I'm about to say about the human mating ritual. This client of mine did not want to engage in the human mating ritual, but the reason she approached me was that her pursuit of men, her meeting them halfway, her initiating texts and phone calls and dates her initiating sex, her having sex quickly— none of that was working for her. She was in a series of relationships where she either wound up financially supporting the guy, getting cheated on, getting dumped, or occasionally all three. And so after a lot of hard work on her part, you know, making huge changes in her behavior, she achieved a just radical reframing of her past. And her letter to me a few weeks after going out with a guy that I convinced her she just had to go out with. He was doing all the right stuff, they had the right kind of similarities, and even though she didn't feel instant chemistry with him, and even though she thought he was too short, I basically said, you are going out with him. You will, you will go out with him. It's a date, it's not marriage. You have to go out with him at least once. And here's the paragraph she sent me. Hey, I just had the most amazing weekend ever. I agreed to be exclusive with him. I am so, so excited. I'm a total convert to this process. I can't believe I almost missed out on this if it weren't for you. He is amazing. So, so thankful you were so bossy. He's most definitely the most amazing person that I've ever dated, and I can't believe I almost didn't go for it. It's a pretty amazing match. I'm on cloud nine. I'm in utter shock. Everything has been so great. I don't want to either mess it up or derail it. I actually don't think I could mess this up for him, but I want to make sure I continue setting us up right. When I told him I still wanted to wait even though we were seriously in hot and heavy, he said, honey, I plan on you being the last woman I'm ever going to have sex with, and I'm going to have sex with you for the next 40 years, so I'm fine to wait. Pretty amazing.

Nice, nice, sweet. Oh my God, that's, uh, that just almost brings tears to my eyes.

Yes. After, after that, you know, years of being treated casually and callously and taken for granted, she is cherished. She is cherished because she engaged in a mating ritual that acts as a tipping point. It is not true that you can manipulate your way into a man's heart. He either loves you or he doesn't. But here's the thing, right? If you behave the way that we're going to talk about today, it will tip out people who think you're too much effort to ever fully invest in, and it will hip in men who feel like That Guy feels about her.

Yeah, wow. Okay, so I mean, I'm like sitting on pins and needles, and I'm sure many of our listeners are. Okay, so you mentioned it a couple of times, you've used the word human mating ritual. You need to share with us what that is, what that isn't, is, you know, anything that you can and help our listeners really kind of understand what your definition— and before you answer, but what your definition is. And everybody, I forgot, I omitted to mention to you, because I want you to think about it while Duane is sharing her expertise and her stories. I want you to think about what your mating style is right now, currently. Because, and when she talks about hers, I really want you to consider, you know, what you may be doing right, wrong, and different, and what might need to change, what might be might need to continue. But I want you to think about our rich question for today is, what is your meeting style? And then based on what Duane shares with you, you might be, you know, be making adjustments to it. Okay, so what is this human mating ritual, Duane?

Well, you know, most organisms on planet Earth have a mating ritual. They have a little dance that they do. It may be a literal dance, or it just may be a way that they interact with each other before sexual intercourse occurs. And in science, courtship is a defined term. It means the duration of time between when you meet and when sex begins. And so courtship for humans used to be really long, and now it's usually rather short. And of course, some— that varies by culture, but in the United States today, especially in big cities, that's usually a relatively short period of time. And if you want to know what the human mating ritual looks like, the movies, strangely enough, are usually a pretty good indicator of that. I just got done watching Love and Mercy about Brian Wilson, the Beach Boys, and, and there's a love story in there, and it follows the classic pattern of the human mating ritual, as do virtually all Hollywood movies, all independently made movies, and every Bollywood movie I've seen. I've seen some of those too. So, uh, multi— Literally, if you look at movies across the movie-watching world, what you see is a man who initiates pursuit and a woman who follows, but usually much more slowly than he would like. She may actually even think she's not interested in him at first, and he works hard to win her over. And as she is won over, he falls more deeply in love, and she gets the time she needs to carefully consider whether he is right for her before she makes some level of commitment to him. And that script is played out again and again in the movies because in many ways the movies do mirror the psychology that we are— I won't say born with because it's a psychology that develops, but it seems to have a genetic basis for developing the way it does. In other words, it's not like babies have a mating ritual in mind, but by the time we're teenagers, we pretty much get it that there is one, even though it's not conscious unconscious that we get it and we pretty much follow a certain kind of script. But culture does interact with that. Culture has more recently told us that the mating ritual is stupid and that we shouldn't have it. And for example, most of the people who've read my book have written fan mail— well, I can't say that. I mean, I don't know how many people have read it, but I've gotten a lot of fan mail. Every now and then I get a letter that's critical and those letters are almost never from men. What's interesting is A full half of the readers of my book so far have been male, and virtually none of them have been critical. They love it. And the book talks about the mating ritual in detail, and it tells women step by step, you know, here is how to be appropriately hard to get, here's what the human mating ritual looks like. And men are reading this and they're like, yep, that totally works. In fact, 80% of my clients— I have Skype clients from all over the country, even though I live in Eugene, Oregon, my clients don't live here. And so 80% of my clients are guys who've heard about me on podcasts who have hired me to help them find the one. And most of them, their number one issue is they can't get women to stop chasing them. They're having— what they tell me is that they have finally realized they're having a really difficult time emotionally connecting in a deep way to any of these women, even women that they really would like to connect with deeply, because the women are making it too easy for them. And they're not, they're not reaching a level where they think, oh, I can't— you know what that guy said, you're the last woman I'm ever going to have sex with, I would wait for you because I'm going to have sex with you for the next 40 years. They want to say that to someone, but they can't get there emotionally. And they've realized the reason I can't get there emotionally is women won't leave me alone. When I text them, they text me right back. Or even worse, they text me before my eyes are even open. Hey, how you doing? What's your day got in store? Should we go out later this week?

Yeah, okay, all right, all right. I'm taking— I take rabid notes while I'm on the phone with my guests because they say so many rich things. Okay, so I need to peel back the onion a little bit here. So is there any chance— because you also just kind of got delved into the whole social media impact on the mating ritual, which I'm sure has been significant. But let me ask you something. Is it possible too that, you know, the stereotypical mating ritual of, you know, the man pursuing the woman, the woman, you know, then, you know, accepting the invitations kind of thing, do you see that that got turned on its head because then the, you know, the woman was then taught in the '70s, '80s, '90s, even to today, that, you know, they should be, you know, it's women's ribs, so to speak, and we should be able to ask men out and pursue men ourselves as much as let them pursue us.

Now, for sure, I remember being in school, my mom getting upset because I called a boy, and she said that's just not the way it goes. And I said, well, why not? She didn't have a reason. And because she didn't have a reason, I went ahead and called him, and I got dumped.

Right.

And, um, yeah, I got dumped. —And did that happen every time? No. There do seem to be a few women who somehow can go with our current cultural mores that says, "Do whatever you want. Women's lib means you can do everything that men can do, including be the driver of the courtship." And I want to emphasize, you can. However— Right. —I have yet to see a marriage where the man adores the woman where that's how it got started. I have yet to ever see that.

Yeah, because I think what you're— are you saying too that, you know, we're not talking about it going all the way back to the caveman, but if we looked at that psychologically, physiologically, I mean, that's how it's been for centuries, and therefore we can't expect that all of a sudden it's going to, you know, turn on its head. And so therefore the traditional model is the fact that we, you know, men want to be the pursuer, men want to be the one, you know, to initiate, and therefore we need to allow that to happen. Is that kind of the—

not really. Let's go back even further. First of all, this ritual comes from more than 45,000 years ago, so it's not just the last few centuries. Second of all, it's easier to understand this if we start by talking about peacocks, strangely enough. Okay, really is it, really, because people get very emotionally invested in the human mating ritual and they get very offended by it. And they— I think it's easier to think about it if if we start with another species. Peacocks are a great example, I think, because most of us have seen the peacock mating ritual. The male has this long tail with many eye spots and glorious beautiful colors. He opens the tail up and brings it up where it actually makes an arc that forms above his head and around the side of his body so that he actually can't see if a predator is coming up behind him. Also, in this position, his tail is so unwieldy that if he knew a predator was there, he couldn't collapse his tail and fly away quickly enough. He's easy prey. So his mating ritual actually, in some ways, is very dangerous for him. And because, you know, you and I have probably seen peacocks in parks, but let's face it, in the parts of the world where peacocks are from, there are large predators that eat peacock as their favorite meal. And the peacock really can't defend itself. During mating season, he is vulnerable a great deal of the time. And so, in order to cast his genes forward, in order to make copies of himself, which is the goal of all human mating behavior— it's an unconscious goal, by the way, because people still engage in mating behavior and the mating ritual when they've had their tubes tied or they've had a vasectomy or they always use condoms and the pill. Uh, it's, it's— Right. Your brain wants you to do what would lead to reproduction, even if consciously you have no intention of reproducing, which is an important concept. Ah, ah, I get it. That a large— that what is driving your behavior when we're talking about the mating ritual is unconscious and it's impervious to your individual desire of the moment. And those are really important concepts. So this peacock has no conscious awareness that he wants to cast his genes forward. He just knows somehow that these are the things he must do or he will never have sexual access to a female. If he were, for example, to say, "Hey, ladies, look, there is a jaguar over there and it might eat me, so how about if we just go get our business done and I just don't raise my tail? That is too dangerous." She is not going to go for that. She is never going for that. So, what the female does— I actually videoed this recently because I am just that kind of nerd. The female in this ritual— the male approaches her and the tail is so heavy that he almost staggers under its weight as he walks toward her. And he can't just show her his tail, he has to actually rattle it. Notice if you're ever around peacocks, he doesn't simply parade it. He gets very near her and then he rattles it. It almost sounds like a rattler on a rattlesnake because he's vibrating his tail so quickly. And what he's saying is, look at me, look at me, I'm fit, you should choose me.

And the female in the mating time.

She walks around in front of him. If she is interested, she stays in front of him, but she doesn't ever bother to look too interested. She almost acts like, "Oh, are you there? Hi." And if she is not interested, she eventually just walks away. And, you know, it is funny, one of the things that really got Charles Darwin in a lot of trouble— I know that evolution, to discuss it, is still a hot button with a lot of people even today. But initially, the Victorians hated the idea that females in the animal kingdom had a choice, that they had sexual choice. But they do. Look at what the peacock does. He doesn't rape her. He does something that— he does something that puts him in mortal danger. And then if he doesn't get what he wants, he folds up his tail and he walks away. The female has a choice. And so here's Here's something to know. Darwin said in his lifetime that whenever he saw a peacock, it made him physically ill. And why would he say that? He said it because he knew from his research that all species-wide ornaments— beautiful plumage, a heavy tail, what have you— all species-wide ornaments on any species, they exist because they either help that organism survive to reproductive age and raise its young, or they help that organism reproduce successfully, casting its own genes into the future, or that adaptation does both of those things. And so with some species, that's really easy to see. If the hummingbird has a long, thin bill, it can reach down to the nectar of the plants where it lives, and that will help it to survive and hence it will survive long enough to reproduce. Those things are easy to see, but why, Darwin wanted to know, would the peacock be so impeded? He's got this heavy, heavy tail that makes him an easy prey. Well, in the 1990s, some researchers decided to do experiments on this. You know, the wonderful thing about an experiment is it shows cause and effect. Correlation— Sure, absolutely. You know, experiments do. And so, in other words, they found cause and effect. And what they did is they started just by observing. They watched which males got chosen by the females for mating. And it was the males who had the most eye spots on their tails, the largest, heaviest, longest tails with the most eye spots. So then the researchers at random chose some males and they cut off some of the eye spots, some of the popular males. And other males they left intact. And it turned out that size really does matter if you're a peacock. It really does, because it turned out that these formerly popular males were now shunned in favor of males who had more eye spots. And so the researchers thought, huh, okay, well now we're going to do an experiment where we're going to randomly assign some females to be caged with a popular male and other females to be caged with an unpopular male for the duration of breeding season. And here's the deal. Yes, females have sexual choice, but just like in certain parts of the world where there have been wars and famine and political killings of lots and lots of the most fit males, females don't usually— human women in those environments don't usually just choose not to mate at all. They'll mate with a less fit male. Females have choice, but rather than get out of the genetic market altogether, we'll choose a male that we're not as into if that's the —only option that we have. And that is what these peahens did. They chose the male they were caged with because otherwise they were going to miss a whole breeding season. They were not going to cast their own genes into the future. And what happened next was really fascinating. The chicks of the preferred males, that is the chicks of the popular males with the really big heavy tails and more eye spots, those chicks had double the survival rate of the chicks of the less popular males.— Hmm.— Now, it turned out that when females picked a pretty mate, they weren't just picking a beautiful mate, they were picking a genetically superior mate.— Interesting. Very interesting.— Now, do you think peahens know that? Are they back there looking like— he has about 80 eye spots and I would say his tail probably weighs 15 pounds. Yeah, good bet my chicks will survive if 'cause I want to breed with him, so I'm going to tap that.' You know, they're not thinking like that. They're birds, but yet they have developed a mating ritual that allows them to capitalize on the success of their genes going forward. And they have no conscious awareness of any of this. Humans, similarly, we've got a mating ritual, and if we lay it out step by step, it sounds like, 'Oh, well, I never think that.' Well, you know what? The birds never think that either. That's the point. It's all unconscious, and it comes from a time when life much harder than it is now. Consider, you know, I am currently wearing shoes that somebody made probably in another country, and a vest that someone in yet another country probably made, in my house which is heated whenever I want it to be heated and cooled whenever I want it to be cooled, and I'm a 15-minute walk from an organic grocer. But my psychology comes from 45,000 or more years ago when people lived in small groups probably 120 people was one of the larger groups that people would have inhabited at that time. Language, art, religion, and culture were just emerging. And whereas a man could have sex with any number of women and that would actually result in potentially him having more copies of his genes sent out into the world, I as a woman back then, if I had sex with every man in the tribe, I was still just going to have one infant. That year. And if I had sex with every man in the tribe, there's a good chance that none of the men would have invested in the infant that I had. One critic— you know, and, and so think about it. I mean, I don't know if you've had kids, but I have, right? And no, I have— I would— well, I was unwieldy, let me tell you. I looked like a marshmallow. I looked like a marshmallow with, you know, with sticks attached to it. And I remember thinking, because until then all this was kind of purely hypothetical for me, and then when I was pregnant, people were walking up to me in the grocery store and people didn't even know me were saying, "So, twins or triplets?" Oh, wow. And it was just one baby, by the way. Yeah. Well, I want to get to—

I don't want to cut you off, but I want to get to then how do we bring this kind of into today's today's world, especially where social media and where women do think that they can be the assertive ones and kind of be aggressive, and yet at the same time they would do much better for themselves if they actually played a little bit of hard to get and allowed the man to take the lead.

So I want to get into that. I'm absolutely getting there, but what I'm saying is, and I think this is an important point because because a lot of times if I jump directly to what you're saying, people still, they're very resistant to it. Look, in the ancient past, you had to get the buy-in of your group in order to support your child. When you are 9 months pregnant and when you are postpartum, I mean, it's not like you go right back to work. Those ideas that, "Oh, there are women who squat in the field and then they continue picking." No, that's not true in any culture in the world. Women usually get at least a month off. And they often sequester themselves with other women who help them tend their infant. And it's hard. It's hard. And it's not just hard for a few months. It's hard for years. Because for years you have to produce enough calories for another person. The average length of nursing in these cultures is like 5 years. So you're talking about in a calorie— in an environment that's not calorie-rich, in an environment where you don't have a grocery store down the street, you have to come up with not only enough calories for yourself every day, which is hard to get with plants, by the way. You need meat. And who's hunting the meat? Wasn't the women. You need to get high calorie dense food and you need to get enough of it to sustain yourself and produce another 700 to 1,000 calories every day for another human being. And you move more slowly and you're more awkward for a long time. I know this for a fact because I've been pregnant and I've raised a young child, but it— And you know, that's where our psychology comes from. It comes from a time when a woman had to pick her mate very carefully. And how did she do this? She made him wait. She made him wait for sex. She made him wait for all kinds of contact. Just longer than he wanted. I'm not saying forever. I'm saying longer than he wanted because by doing so, she tipped away men who just wanted sex and only sex and she tipped toward her men who wanted much more. Right. So that's what we're looking for. Yeah, exactly. I mean, I, you know, sometimes I do hear from women who say, well, I just want to have sex. Well, that's great, I'm happy for you. You know what, I had that time in my life too. I remember it was great. I'm not saying go back to the 1950s and chain yourself to a sink. What I'm saying is science now knows that men have two mating psychologies that run in tandem or run at the same time almost all the time, and those mating psychologies are what I call Miss Right and Miss Right Now. And when a man approaches you—

let me— we need to take a brief break. When we get back, we're going to talk about the Miss Right and Miss Right Now, and we will be right back in 26 seconds. You are listening to Shedding the Bitch Radio with Bernadette Boas. Be sure to check out her book, Shedding the Corporate Bitch: Shifting from Bitch to Rich in Life and Business. Available on Amazon or sheddingthebits.com. We also want to thank our sponsor, tsrtax.com, who offers a broad range of tax services for small to corporate size clients.

We'll be right back.

Welcome back everyone, we are talking with Duana Welch and she is the author of of Love Factually, and I want you to go to lovefactually.co and check out her book. You can buy it on Amazon, iTunes, basically anywhere you can buy books. It's in audio, ebook, and paperback. I also want you to Facebook and Twitter with her. It's @DuenaWelch. She makes it really easy, and that's W-E-L-C-H, Duena Welch. And again, lovefactually.co. We're talking about Why Being Hard to Get is Sexy and Being a Bitch Shouldn't Even Be an Option. So we're just going to talk about and focus on why being hard to get is being sexy. And she was just discussing with us the myths right now. And so to kind of bring it into kind of, you know, today, Duena, what would you share with our listeners as far as what men— what is going on in men's head— and without playing games, because that's your point, we don't have to play games, we don't have to be a bitch— what can they be doing to be that Miss Right or Mr. Right now?

We know for sure from studies by David Buss and a guy named Schmidt and several other laboratories that men around the world admit, readily admit, that they have two mating strategies happening at the same time and that they easily move women from one strategy to the other. That is, a lot of men, when they say, "I'm looking for a wife," they are looking for a wife, but simultaneously, it wouldn't bother them too much if they just had casual sex. And men who are looking for casual sex are looking for casual sex, but if they found a woman who intrigued them, who was hard to get, and they fell in love with her, they wouldn't— at that point, they would be more open to a permanent mateship. I mean, we've all seen the bad boys settle down, right? Right. So men even have admitted what specific things they look for in Miss Right versus Miss Right Now. One of the big ones is how sexually accessible is she. If she's available right away, most men think that, hey, woohoo, that's great, I got sex. But at the same time, They also find themselves thinking, "And she'll give it to everyone, 'cause she gave it to me easily." Men, you know, we have this idea that men have a big ego, but their ego isn't quite big enough to think that they're the only guy that you would have sex with on the first date. They really do believe— You know, they really do believe that if that happens, if sex happens easily, that it would happen easily with anyone. And, you know, women don't penalize men for that. But again, going back 45,000 years, pretend for a moment you're a caveman and that you have to go off on fairly lengthy hunts on a regular basis to provide meat for the whole clan. And that while you're gone, you just have to trust that your wife is not having sex with any of the other cave dudes. And you have to trust that because there's no paternity tests. Sure. So, in a lot of— Yeah, there's no paternity test. I mean, our psychology comes from a time when there was literally her word against his, and that was it. And so, how would a guy know? Well, men have numerous adaptations to protect them from unwittingly raising another dude's kids. And some of these adaptations are physical. For example, human males produce more sperm than— for their size— than males of any other species. And that's because of sperm competition. If a woman did have sex with someone else, the husband would hope that his sperm would displace the rival sperm. Again, this is all unconscious. There was one study that had people— had men collect this— collect semen from when they had intercourse with their wives. And they found that if they had men abstain from sex with their wives for a whole week, and some of these men lived with their wife during that week, and others of these men went on a business trip or another kind of trip, the men who had been away from their wives produced much more sperm than the men who had been right there, even though neither one had ejaculated that week. That is a physical adaptation to protect his paternity assurance, the assurance that these kids are his. So in other words, is a lot of times when a man gets turned off by a woman who has sex with him very quickly, it's not that he's being a sexist pig. He doesn't actually have conscious control over that feeling. That feeling is an adaptation that seems to exist seemingly universally to various degrees. Some cultures— there is a cultural interplay. Some cultures that's abhorrent, and other cultures it's merely amusing, but I'm not going to marry you. But it doesn't lead to a greater interest. It except among men who have had very few sexual experiences or who are actually virgins. Those guys actually do tend to get hooked from the very first time they have sex with someone, but most men aren't in that situation, right? So, what does this mean women can do? So, I want to talk about my client a little bit more because she encountered a lot of problems, and actually several of my female clients who've given me permission to share some of their issues. I want to also say I would never say anything that could directly identify any individual person.

Right, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Right.

Here's some of the pitfalls that some of my clients have had, and this one who said I could share her situation in particular. Guys who keep looking at your profile but they never write to you online. Guys who never ask for your phone number even though they are writing to you online. Guys who text but they never call. Guys who call but they call at the very last minute. Guys who are vague, uh, they say stuff like, so, um, you want to go out on Wednesday? But then they never follow up. Uh, and of course, guys who rush sex, or they rush to be— this is an interesting one— or they rush to be exclusive, which may sound like a really good thing, but if you're not ready to be exclusive, it's not a good thing because this is potentially a lifetime commitment we're talking about, and you need to take the time that you need.

So, uh, I have to say, from your, um, even your, uh, client that you mentioned earlier, when she said that she was going into an exclusive relationship, I, I have to admit, I had like hairs go up on my neck because I'm like, okay, how long have they been dating? Because, well, I guess it's my, it's my fear of commitment that I'm like, okay, I'm not rushing into, you know, an exclusive relationship until, you know, we're pretty certain of where it's going type of thing.

Is that something you come across too? Well, yes, it's really— actually, Bernadette, it's really wonderful if you maintain that and you don't have sex with the guy. But what happens is if a woman says, well, I'm not going to make a commitment to you, but I'm having sex with you, she's basically just told him, I'm open to continue dating other men. 'And yet sex is happening with you, so therefore sex isn't really important to me.' His ancient caveman mating sex goes, 'Wow, bad bet.' Yeah, you know, I totally encourage women to take all the time they need, but to be not having sex with him while they're taking that, that time. Right, right. There's not really a time limit in, you know, and in many cultures today Courtship is relatively short. It's just that marriage happens relatively quickly. And interestingly, while in my Westernized brain I assumed that those marriages were shams and made for political reasons and that these people didn't really love each other because how could you, I was wrong. I was wrong. Humans don't necessarily have to have a long courtship. It helps when you're really young because the brain doesn't finish developing until we're about 25 years old. So it helps It helps for courtship to take a long period of time if you're really young. But, you know, most of my clients are in their 30s and 40s and 50s, and so they're not in the really young category anymore. None of those groups could be qualified as really young, right? And by that time, you've got enough life experience that honestly— and my book goes through the steps— if you do the steps that we know science has shown helps us to find the very best partner for us and have the very best odds of success and happiness for us, then you don't need a really long period of time. My husband and I— and I did do everything in my book— my husband and I knew each other 4 and a half months from the day we met in person to the day we married. We have now been happily married for 8, almost 8 and a half years. Very nice. Yeah, so, so she hasn't necessarily been with this guy that long, but the fact of the matter is, as long as she has basically done what I call arranging her own marriage, which means, you know, in arranged marriage cultures, what your family group does is they find someone who is basically just like you but hot and of the opposite sex. And they say, so do you like each other? And if you have a sexual inclination toward this other person, then it's going to work because everything else is there. Imagine, Bernadette, if I guaranteed you I could find a man who was just like you, who you additionally found hot, and who would commit to you for a lifetime. Your job would be over.

Yeah, yeah. The only thing I'm struggling with is, you know, I've had some, you know, hot sex and hot men in my lifetime, but I, you know, I But I know that I wouldn't— a marriage wouldn't have worked out with them.

Yes, that's not what I'm talking about. A man where marriage would work out. What happens on the street is people get sexually involved very quickly and then they find out they're a mismatch. What I'm talking about is you go into it already being a fantastic match, and then the only question left is, am I hot for you?

Oh, absolutely. Oh, I see what you're saying. Absolutely. Yeah, that totally makes sense to me.

Yeah, because that's arranged marriage cultures. My endodontist— I have an endodontist— my endodontist allowed me to interview her for an article I was writing for Psych Today, and she's in an arranged marriage. And I asked her about it, and she got a little huffy. She said, look, it's not like I'm chained to a sink somewhere. I have a medical degree. She said, uh, what happened was I was busy getting my medical degree and I didn't want to date. I was in the United States and I could have, but I just thought, why do that? I have parents who know me very well, who have a global network with other parents who will look for someone who shares my values. They know what I want. They know exactly what I would be looking for. They're going to look for that guy, and they're going to look for that guy who I might be attracted to, and then they're going to introduce me to 2 or 3 of these men, and I can pick, or I can just go about it on my own if I want to. And she said, the third guy was the charm. I met 2 other guys, and they, they were perfect except I just couldn't imagine having sex with them. The third guy was really attractive to— he was really attracted to me, and we've been happily married for 18 years. We have 3 kids.

Fabulous! That is awesome! Very cool. Yeah, well, I wanted to also—

go ahead. Well, our Western idea of what arranged marriage is like is really quite grossly inaccurate. And so what I've tried to do with my clients is I teach them to arrange their own marriage. I teach them to find someone who from the outset is a great match so that if they're hot for each other and fall in love, it'll actually work for the rest of their lives.

Right. No, I mean, that totally makes sense. I guess I, you know, my first question is, and I want to get to also talk about, you know, what does harder yet look like, but I think a lot of our listeners, you know, over the years of having this show and having various guests on, one of their top questions is, okay, I'm really open to this, I'm open to, you know, arranging my own marriage, so to speak, that you're talking about, and I want everybody to go to lovefashionly.co and look into getting her book and following her steps because you ask me about it all the time. But I guess, Duane, their main thing is, great, I'm in that 30-40, especially that 40-50 range, and even just finding that guy that, you know, I'm attracted to, I find sexy, you know, to get to a point of arranging that relationship future for themselves they don't even get the opportunity to play hard to get because of the fact that there's, you know, that they find that there's few pickings, or at least maybe they're not going to the right places, or they're not doing the right thing to even find that pool of individuals to even start that ritual with. What do you tell them?

So today it's never been easier to get in front of worthy mates. It's never been easier. I mean, there are always, always— Online is Well, yeah, online just makes it super easy, but I want to warn all you listeners out there today, um, don't go with anything that's unpaid. Do not go with Tinder. Do not go with any unpaid site. And the reason for that is, who do you suppose hangs out at sites where they could have sex basically for free? The commitment-phobic. Don't go there, right? You need to be at a paid site. So eHarmony endorsed my book, but I don't endorse eHarmony. As such. It's— I actually met my husband there, but I also used a couple other websites, and I found men who I met who were good at every website that I used. But the important thing is, is it a paid website? It needs to be. It needs to have a lot of questions so that the only people, the only guys who are going to bother to pay the fee and answer all those questions are men who want a wife. So you don't need to get in front of more people. The kind of person you're getting in front of is important. My book goes into more detail. But since we only have a few minutes left and you guys all want to know how do you be hard to get— so a lot of women stumble on this one because they think that they have to be aloof or indifferent or cold or, or outright bitchy in order to be hard to get. And I want to relieve your minds, it is none of those things. In fact, if you like a guy, I insist that you say, I really like you and I'm really enjoying to get getting to know you, because we know from science the most attractive thing that either gender can do is openly show interest for a specific person. So if you have open interest in a person, tell them. Don't tell them, "I love you." That's a big sign of commitment, and men need to move toward commitment first, or else it feels like an ankle weight if you offer it first. But, but do, do, you know, When they call you, if you answer, and it's an if, you don't answer if the guy's calling you at a time that's bad for you. If you answer, you show enthusiasm and friendliness and open, obvious interest. If he calls you a day after the date and you had a good time on the date, say, "Hal, it is so good to hear from you. I had a wonderful time the other night. I've just been dying to tell you what a great time I had." 'You are so interesting.' I was not aloof, cold, or bitchy or unfriendly when I said that. I was the exact opposite of those things. But here's what also didn't happen: I didn't call Hal. I didn't make the first move, right? He had to chase me. It's like a dance. It's like a dance where in couples dancing like ballroom dancing. In heterosexual couples, the male leads and the female follows. This is like that with one noted exception. Not only does the male always lead, but the female follows more slowly than he wants. Like my client that we opened up with, he's leading. He has been asking her for weeks, to a point of pleading at this point, please be my girlfriend. And she has finally said yes. She has followed. He led, but she followed more slowly than he wanted, and she did it for several reasons. One reason is it allows him to get his dopamine levels, which is a biochemical that men don't fall in love without— his dopamine levels are rising while he is striving to have her, and he's falling more and more deeply in love. So she's finding out, does he really love me, or is this the kind of thing that he thought he loved me but now it's going to fade? She has assurance now that it's the real thing. The other thing is that it has given her the time to carefully consider whether she wants to get involved with him. Many of my clients and many women in the United States right now have a history of doing what I call trial marriage, which is where you get immediately sexual, immediately committed, and then you only ask the hard questions after you're so deeply involved that it would be heartbreaking to leave. And she is turning that on its head. And what she's doing is she's asking the hard questions first. She's figuring out first whether he's a good match. She's holding off on emotional and sexual intimacy on her side until he has proven himself a worthy match for a long time, not just for a week or two. And then she's making some level of commitment to him. Another example of being hard to get: guys who text. Text. Right now, a lot of men have basically stopped making phone calls, and what I've encouraged my clients to do— this isn't in my book, but I've just started encouraging my clients to do it. It may not sound like this is hard to get, but it really is. I'll explain. Is, um, in about 30 seconds. Yeah, when a man says, uh, can I text you, say, oh, I, I reserve texting for business, but if you want to call me 'Here's my number,' and then just don't respond to any texts.

Tell them, 'Nah.' Oh, I like that one because they are so dependent on texts these days. I love that. Yeah, I love that. Use business as an excuse not to let them text you and then have them call you.

Yes, and if he doesn't call, he doesn't call, you know. Or if he— a guy who's big, he says, 'Hey, you want to go out on Wednesday?' You can say yes, but if he doesn't specify a day and a time and a place 48 hours in advance, you go ahead and make other plans. And if, you know, because if he gets back with you on Wednesday and says, so when are we meeting? He just asked you to do his job. He's not going to fall in love with you while you're doing his job. So, you know, what my clients have started saying to those guys is, oh, well, I really did want to get together, but when there wasn't a time or a place I specified, I just went ahead and made other plans. Sorry, maybe another time. And then he'll either step up and pursue or he won't. Right. It's about having self-respect.

Well, everyone, I want to make sure, because we have about a minute and a half left, I want to make sure that everybody knows to go to lovefactually.co and don't only just check out her book, make sure you get her book, because obviously from everything that she talks about There's some great advice, there's some great steps, there's some great examples, and a whole explanation around this human mating ritual. And the fact that you don't have to, you know, be bitchy to play hard to get, and yet you need to be hard to get in order to allow the man to, you know, kind of find Miss Right or Miss Right Now, and you find the guy that you want. I want to thank you, Duane, so much. I can't believe the time has flown, that we had so much more to talk about, but thank you so much for being part of the program.

Hey, thanks for having me, and if you ever decide you want more tips on being hard to get, give me a call.

Yeah, absolutely. Everybody, I want to remind you, next week is Rich Tip Tuesday, our last Tuesday of the month, so I'm taking your business, career, and life questions and answering them throughout the program, and you'll have an opportunity to call in, chat in, or just simply listen in and get some great tips and advice regarding your career, business, or life. And then stay tuned for June. We have a whole lineup of great guests coming up. And I want to thank our guest Duane Welch. Go to lovesactually.co. I want to thank everyone else. Deborah, you have a fabulous Memorial Day weekend. And everybody, please be safe and have a ball of a time this weekend. And I'll talk to you right back here next week on Shedding the Bits Radio. Thanks everybody. Thank you for listening to Shedding the Bitch Radio with Bernadette Boas. Join Bernadette every Tuesday at noon Eastern as she helps you shift your bitches to riches. And the dialogue is always going on at sheddingthebitch.com. See you next week.

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