Holding the Calm: The Secret to Resolving Conflict with Hesha Abrams

On a scale of 1 to 10, 10 being powerhouse, how effective are you at resolving conflict and diffusing tension within your team? With today's business environment being so chaotic, moving at lightning speed, and requiring innovative solutions to complex problems, knowing how to prevent or handle conflict skillfully is a must-know, even a master skill to possess. So our guest, Heesha Abrams, head dealmaker and mediator with Heesha Abrams Mediation, will provide you insights along with tips on how to skillfully defuse tension so it doesn't turn into conflict. Also, how to hold the calm with the tricks she'll provide. And lastly, how not to let people's pettiness derail your goals so then everyone is working in an environment that is productive and supportive of each other being successful. So stay with us. Welcome, welcome, welcome to Shedding the Corporate Bitch, the podcast that transforms female corporate executives into powerhouse leaders by showing them how to shed the challenges and overwhelm along with any fear, insecurity, self-doubt, and negativity holding them back. I'm your host, Bernadette Boas of Ball of Fire Coaching, bringing you powerhouse discussions each week to share tips, advice, and sometimes tough love so you create the riches in your work and life you deserve. Let's do this. Heesha, how are you?

I'm just great. Nice to meet you.

Nice to meet you as well on this beautiful day. I'm so looking forward to this conversation. I think it can't be discussed enough when it comes to conflict resolution in your words, diffusing tension. And I love the name of your book. I already mentioned it, but Holding the Calm. So this will be a fascinating conversation. But before we get into that, I like to always have our guests share with our viewers and our listeners a little bit about themselves personally so they can connect and relate with them. So who is Heesha?

Well, first thing I like to do is I am a mother. I am a grandmother, and for people that are— understand that there's a whole lot of wisdom born of pain, which is always a beneficial thing, right?

Yes.

But I'm also a Star Trek geek, so I am all about triumph of the human spirit and the good wins in the end.

Nice, nice. I love that. And you know, that, that also must keep you in a very positive, optimistic state as well, despite all the chaos.

Indeed. Well, and I tell people, we can all say, oh, the world's terrible, going to hell in a handbasket, da-da-da-da. We have more computing power in this little phone in our hands than the Apollo mission had when we sent people to the moon. Right. We have more now than the richest people did 50 years ago. And I say, number one proof for everybody, Novocaine. Novocaine. Novocaine's only been out 50, 60 years. So you went to the dentist, buckle up and, you know, bite down on a piece of leather. Yeah. So the world is getting better. Is it as fast as we want? No. Is it fair for everyone else yet? No. But is it better? Life expectancy, infant mortality, maternal mortality on every metric. We as human beings and particularly as women are definitely better, right? And one of the big things I talk about is best is the enemy of better. Let's get better.

Nice, because best— are you saying that best kind of has a ceiling to it, where better means that you're constantly evolving, constantly growing?

And plus, a lot of times people can't get to solutions because they're looking for the best solution. Best solution, look it, best solution is that chocolate cake is not fattening and broccoli is, okay? I'm not getting what I want. You're probably not gonna get what you want. So you gotta deal with the cards that you're dealt. So I am very practical, very pragmatic. I don't do win-win problem solving. Oh, for God's sakes. There's no win-win problem solving to the Super Bowl, right? That's not the way the game works. So how do you deal with the real world? Difficult people and narcissists and con men and nasty people and dishonest. How do you deal with that?

Now, do you think— do you think a lot of those things, though, are excuses people make for not, you know, trying harder, not, you know, being pragmatic? They just come up with a bunch of different things that they can pull out of the air to kind of keep themselves complacent and where they're at.

Sometimes, sometimes, I mean, we could have a whole conversation now where I could shrink-a-dink us because I go through a lot of psychological stuff and neuroprogramming. And I mean, there's so much, right? In the end, I could try to figure out why you did what you did, but quite frankly, I just want to get you to do what I want you to do, right? Or I want you not to do what I don't want you to do. Or I don't want you to bust my chops over something. How do I deal with the immediacy of making my life better right now?

Right.

That's what I'm talking about. And I want to teach people how to do it because we don't teach people. It's like glasses. See harder, squint more. No, put a pair of glasses on, for God's sakes.

Right.

That's what this Holding the Calm stuff is, is learning how to do that. So it's not so terrifying and so frightening, right?

No, I would have to agree. And I love— and I was looking for it. Because you call yourself a head dealmaker. Yeah. So explain that before we get into the whole conversation about conflict, because it'll naturally lead that way. But before we do, explain that. What is a head dealmaker?

So what I do for a living is I'm a mediator. So I'm a professional peacemaker. And I have done over 30 years every kind of case you can possibly imagine, from breast implants to asbestos to wrongful death to class actions to intellectual property cases for Google and Yahoo and Facebook and Verizon and all of those guys. You know, I've done billions of dollars and little, you know, $50,000 arguments. And, you know, whose roommate's cat peed on the rug? You know, those are sometimes worse. And so what I look at is, again, Fast is the enemy of better. Can you get to a deal? A warm deal where we're hugging? Yes, that's just lovely. Often and usually a handshake, or I hate your guts, but I signed the piece of paper and I don't have to see you anymore. Okay, okay. Where can we go on the continuum? Obviously, I'd rather do it better, but I'll take what I could get. So it talks about real live people with real live stuff where I may not be able to shrink a thank you. There's too much going on, or I don't have a relationship with you, or I don't have the time, or I don't care. Yeah, all of which is absolutely legitimate. What are the simple, easy things you can do right now? You don't have to take some master class, you don't have to get a master's degree in something. What's something you can do? Or if you pick up this book, this little $15 small paperback, today and make it better? That's why I sat down and wrote this. That's why I wanted to do this for people, because they There's tricks, there's magic beans, there's things you can do. And for God's sakes, we don't teach people.

Yes. Yes. And she is referring to her book, of which is the same title of our episode today, which is Holding the Calm: The Secret to Resolving Conflict and Diffusing Tension. Where in the business environment, like the everyday corporate business environment, for those corporate professionals listening, where a mediator would be necessary, or that the leaders need to have the skills of mediation?

So it's interesting. I like to call it conflict resolution is the umbrella and the ability to handle conflict. And then underneath it, when you go to a mediator, is when you're actually going to a doctor, you're going to a third party to say, we can't deal with this, I need your help. Very often managers are having to mediate between two employees, right? Or an employee and a customer.

Right.

So it happens all the time. And if you don't do it well, people will go away, but they bury the resentment like nuts for the winter. And they always come back in the most inappropriate way, in the most inappropriate time. So let me give a couple of analogies because human beings think by analogies. I like to use spaghetti sauce or teriyaki sauce or barbecue sauce, whatever you wanna do. If you drip it on the counter, if you wipe it right up with a wet sponge, no problem. You leave it overnight, you're scraping it off with a spatula. You leave it 3 or 4 months and it's old and moldy and nasty. That, my friends, is conflict. But all of us think of conflict like either a root canal or a colonoscopy without anesthesia, depending on which end you're going from, right? Who says, "Oh, conflict, great opportunity to learn. Isn't this great?" Oh no, we don't. We go, "Get away from me as fast as you can." So how do we know how to wipe it up when it's wet? 'Cause no one teaches us how to do it. And what do we do? If I forget it, if I ignore it, maybe it'll go away. Maybe they don't remember. Trust me, they always remember, right? So how do you do that? Certain words and sentence stems. One of the things I do in the book is I give people sentence stems. I give people comebacks. I just sent out— I have a— if anyone connects with me on LinkedIn, I post every single day and I just post interesting tidbits for free for people. I'm not trying to sell a training or anything like that. I just want people to have these skills on how to do it. And I just posted something on one-liner comebacks. When someone is offensive to you or obnoxious to you, you know, you can go, "Huh, huh, huh, huh, huh," or angry or cry or mad, or you can hit these things. And these one-liners are so good because they take your power back. You're right. Right. That's what's so good about it is, "Are you okay?" is a nice way. The other way is, 'Whoa, that should come with a warning label,' or, 'You know what, what did you mean by that?' Completely changes the power dynamic because you don't react, right? That's just— I mean, each— I've got so many little tidbits and little things that it can make it easier. It's literally— you don't have to be a caveman or cavewoman shoving food in your mouth, right? Here's a fork, here's a knife, here's chopsticks, right?

So there's obviously different degrees of conflict. And, you know, and the— I would say the stronger the tension, the more that it might lead to mediation of some kind. And you talk about wanting individuals to be skillful, skillful at knowing how to defuse tension. Yet they don't need a degree.

Right.

So if they're not getting necessarily the degree or extensive training, what are they able to do on a regular basis, if not daily, but on a regular basis to become skillful at dealing with conflict?

So let me give us some bunch of examples about this. So first of all, like I said, most of us run away from conflict. Scares the heck out of us. Right? So one of the things, and I talk about this in the book, I've done hospice work, I've done suicide crisis phone work. It teaches you how to listen. So if you were really into wanting to learn how to do it, those are great suggestions. But if you want something real quick and easy, on a Saturday, go hang out at the returns desk at Walmart. Just watch. In an hour, you'll get an MBA in this. Just watch. You will be able to start telling by body language who's lying, Who's telling the truth? Who's trying to get away with something? You're going to see so much because it's basically the same thing repeated over and over and over and over again, but different flavors. It's one of the training techniques that you can do, and it's super easy and honestly fun to do. And what it does is it takes your listening to a deeper level. It takes your diagnosis to a deeper level. One of the other analogies I like to use is that if you're trying to resolve conflict and diffuse tension, forget being a mediator. You're just with your teenager or your boss or your neighbor or the HOA or someone at church. I mean, it's all of that. What happens is we rush to talk, we rush to fix, we rush to stop. It's like a bomb is in the town square. That guy waddles out in his Michelin suit, right? He doesn't just start cutting wires. He looks, diagnoses, Is it a pressure switch? Is it a chemical switch? Is it remote control? What do I have here? So when we say we should listen to each other, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But if I'm listening to you for content, but I'm also listening to you for diagnosis, now I'm looking at you. Chapter 1 of my book is Speak into the Ears That Are Hearing You.

I love that. I made a note of that. Yes, I love that.

I mean, wouldn't I speak— let me just make it easy for our audience. Wouldn't I speak differently to an introvert than an extrovert? Everyone would go, well, yeah, of course. How about a big picture person versus a detail person? How about a thinker versus a feeler? Just those 3 questions. That's it. Those 3 questions you ask yourself. I now listen to you and I frame my response for you. If you're an introvert, we're going to talk more quietly and more carefully. If you're an extrovert, it's going to be a little more lively. If you're a thinker, it's going to be data, facts, information. If you're a feeler, it's going to be how it feels for you and what your gut is and what's the right thing. See, it's not hard, right?

But what happened—

a minute—

what happened? Well, it can take a minute. Okay, so because that's where I was going to go, Hesha, is A lot of people would say, well, that it takes time to process that. And I have someone standing in front of me, you know, really. So how quickly can someone process this?

Immediately. It takes practice. How often are you going to dribble a basketball if you've never dribbled a basketball? Right. Am I really great at it? Yeah. I've had 30 years of practice. Of course I am. That's why I tell people, do something. Go to the return desk at Walmart. Do suicide phone crisis work where all you're doing is listening on a phone to people. I help people die in hospice training. Whatever your volunteer work is, do it with the idea that I want to get better at diagnosing people. And now you practice. I guarantee you, within a week of doing it, you'll be better. And you know the proof of it? Your teenager will go, Mom, what's up with Mom? What's different with Mom? That's how you know you've done it good.

And what they're improving on is when you say diagnosis, what they're improving on is listening and picking up on the style of that individual, like how they— the information, how they want to be addressed, how they want to be confronted.

Well, what they need, you know, you never really want to confront anybody, but it's what does that person need? If I invite you to my house for dinner, Wouldn't I find out if you're vegetarian and you're lactose intolerant and you're on the keto diet so that I can have the right food for you? I mean, that's just being a good hostess. I would do that. We don't do that in our conversations. And we do it when it's easy. You and I are talking to each other. We jive. It's great. But someone else, oh, they're weird. They're difficult. It's because you haven't used the right approach. You're shoving ice cream on somebody who's lactose intolerant. Or you're shoving pizza on somebody who's glucose intolerant or gluten intolerant. It's— and it's not hard. And the beauty of it is that it slows you down a moment to where I have to not only hear you, I have to see you. Now what happens is that I start to read body language better. I'm listening to you. Really good bosses know that sometimes what you're saying is not really what you're saying. Right. They know how to read between the lines. How? They've learned to diagnose. Everybody can learn how to do that. But we don't teach that. We teach everyone's the same. This is how we treat everybody. No, we don't. No, we don't. And the more you do this, the more effective you are. And that's why I have all these techniques in the book. I've got one called VUCS, which is just fantastic for a more complicated one. I've got sentence stems. I've got all kinds of things that are how you can do this easier and better within your work group, at home. This works great with kids and teenagers. Instead of telling a teenager what you want from them, you ask them what they would like, what their opinion is. I have to tell you, teenagers, they're never asked their opinion. Their whole life is being told what to do, where to go, how to do it. You all of a sudden give them choice and give them power, completely different game, even over small stuff, small stuff. It's absolutely dramatic how well this works.

And, and that kind of jumps out at me because I often talk to professionals and managers about the fact that manager and employees are like parents and children. And if you would actually stop telling them and directing them and dictating to them and actually, you know, ask them and listen to them, then you'll get a better response. So is that, is that in line with—

Extremely, extremely. Now what tends to happen, especially let's just use your manager example, I'm busy, I've got 30 direct reports, I don't have time to hold your little hand. Okay, don't. And then see how much time you have dealing with all the other nonsense you have to deal with, right? It's the spaghetti sauce analogy. I keep telling people, wipe up that spaghetti sauce when it's wet, it's so much easier. And when you don't, then go Here's a trick I'm gonna give our audience. Turn to someone and say, I didn't handle that like I would have wanted to. Can I have a do-over? Who says no to that? Nobody says no to that. The other person then goes, okay. You gave them respect. You listened to them. You're getting information. You showed vulnerability. It is the greatest thing ever that if you You were too— I mean, you're tired, you're hungry, you're cranky. Of course you're a human being, for God's sakes. You give yourself some grace.

Yes.

And it comes out and then you go, "That didn't come out the way I wanted to. I'm really sorry. Can I have a do-over?" Yeah. Nobody says no. And it always works. It's a great, great, great technique. And you want one more for everybody? 'Cause I wanna give people some specific concrete stuff. Sure. Let's say I'm talking to you. And you're just getting on my nerves. You know, either I like you or I don't like you, or I'm tired, or who cares? I don't— you don't have to figure out the why. The why is honestly irrelevant. It doesn't really matter. All I know is, is that you are starting to annoy me. How am I going to move this conversation or stop this conversation? And you won't stop talking. Think about every meeting you're in or a family dinner. Someone won't stop talking. How do you stop it? Surefire way every single time. I look at you and say, "You know what I admire about you?" Guess what? You stop talking. Moi? I wanna hear every word that you are going to say. Right. And what I tell people is choose your verb. It's all about verbs. You know what I admire about you? You know what I like about you. You know what I love about you. You know what I respect about you. You know what I enjoy about you. Pick one.

Right.

And then say something true. Like, let's say you are just pontificating and you're on your high horse. I admire your passion. Right? I respect your intelligence. I love that you care so deeply about this. See how easy that is?

Yes!

It's not hard. And I give you examples in the book so you can memorize them. So then in the moment— boom! You know, you can actually say it. What happens is that person kind of goes like they don't know what to say. They don't know what to do. "Thank you." And now all of a sudden you've created an ally. You've gotten information. You've gained power. You stopped the situation. It's brilliant. I have used this with billionaires and janitors, right? And it's a human being thing.

Oh yes, absolutely. So say you diffused it because it was kind of early on in the tension. How should the two people or group of people— say it's a team, uh, and they're in the middle of what is becoming, is percolating and becoming very volatile. What can one person, or how would you approach that with that team?

So it's a great question. One of the things I like to do is we as human beings are wired to be negative. We are wired that way. Our school system tests us to failure, not to succeed. It's not how well you did on a test, it's how not poorly you did. And then we grade on a curve, so now we're going to compare you with everybody else. Like, the whole system is screwed up. It should not be that way. So what we do is we catch people doing it wrong. We don't catch people doing it right. So as soon as I, as a manager or just a colleague or anybody who has any kind of gumption or power of the situation, can say, things are getting real negative and real tense, I'd like for us to stop And I'd like for us to take a minute to reflect and go around the room and see something positive, either about that person or about the situation or about this interaction. And it's gonna be hard, cuz right now we're focused on finding out what's wrong. I wanna catch us doing it right, and I'm gonna start. And then you start. And I, I have done this before. This is a little more advanced, but I've done it where I have a group of people where I'll go around to each person. And tell them what I admire about them or what I respect about them. It changes it like magic. I can see that. I could say— and then everyone else will do it. And you will have people that are not skillful at it at all that will say, well, I like that you tried. Okay, remember what I'm saying, everybody. Best is the enemy of better. That's good enough.

It's good enough right now.

You start going around now We start problem solving. I'm a big believer in flip charts. I love flip charts because it's very easy for people to go, "Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah," auditorially, right? Or in emails. But if you're in a group in any kind and you have a flip chart up, at the top of the page you write "solutions," and next to it you write "barriers to solutions." And as people are talking, we put it in its correct column. That's all. Now all of a sudden we start looking at potential solutions. And what are the barriers to the solutions? Well, we need to solve for the barriers too, right? Okay. And now we start going through it. And I tell you, more than half the time, what you thought was a problem is not a problem at all. It's something else, right? Diagnosis. That's what we keep talking about. Chapter 1 of the book, Speak into the Ears That Are Hearing You. You will diagnose and you will get so much good stuff.

And, and where does trust come into play? Because obviously, you know, it's either going to open the wells of being able to have these difficult discussions or it's going to slam it shut if someone doesn't trust the other person or there's a whole culture of, of distrust.

Yeah.

What— how does that play into this? And what are some tips and ideas for our listeners and viewers?

So I'd like that you ask that because I— you can tell I'm not a kumbaya gal and I'm not a win-win problem solving. And I know we all train that and do it. And for God's sakes, it works 15-20% of the time, which means it fails 80% of the time. So I hate that we're like— it's like telling people to go on a diet that doesn't work and everyone can't lose weight. It's like, why would we do something that literally does not work? It works if everyone's in alignment and everyone has the same self-interest and everyone's nice and everyone wants to do stuff together. Great, that's lovely. 80% of the world's a jungle and it's not like that. So when we talk about trust, that's making the assumption that there is trust or that we can be vulnerable. And you know what? In the vast majority of the world, you can't trust. And and you can't be vulnerable, and you're foolish if you do. Okay, you want to have an open mind, but not so open that your brains fall out, right? This is a jungle here. This is a real-life jungle. So people are on a need-to-know basis. People have to earn your trust. Everything that I'm talking about has nothing to do with trust. You deal with the ears that you're speaking into. If that person is a not trustworthy person, you've got all kinds of protections. That you use. If they are more trustworthy, you can explore more vulnerability. That's the diagnosis part, why that's so important. You decide what you reveal and how you don't. And if I really don't trust you, you know what I admire about you so much? That you can keep confidences.

And even if that other person doesn't trust you, doesn't make a difference.

But you know what? The more you ask for do-overs, the more you validate, the more you diagnose, the more you listen, the more they will trust you.

Yes. OK, so that's, so that's what I'm— where I was getting to is your, your solution for that. If you sense that someone doesn't trust you and that's why they're— because a lot of managers, they'll say, why doesn't my team open up to me? Why won't they come in?

And I asked them for, you know, for their input, for their Why should they if you can fire me or discipline me or not give me a raise? Why in the world would I trust you? Right. The relationship is not a trustworthy thing. The issue is it has to be earned and you have to make it safe. And there's only so much you can do. And this is a thing for women. Women, we like friends and we like to be connected and all of that. And as a manager, your team is not your friend. They're not your friends. They're not. You're the manager. And they want to— and same thing with a parent. You are not your children's friend. You are their parent. And so it's the conflating of those roles stops your effectiveness is part of the problem. And I'm noticing we're doing this at the eclipse. And can you see the darkness coming in my window? Because I'm in Dallas, so I'm near the totality. So this is hilarious because I don't know if I can make it any lighter, but the sky is all of a sudden darkening. And we might get to watch the eclipse on this recording. That's cool.

Well, it's funny because we talked about that right before we jumped on and it won't be here until for another half hour, 45 minutes.

Classical. One of the other things I wanted to mention that I thought, first of all, the title of your podcast is so cool. I just thought it was so great. And one of the things is that women are not trained in how to use power. Men are from a very young age. And here's my proof. Until Title IX happened, women couldn't even really even play organized sports. That's why organized sports were so important for women. Men learned how to go on field, fight and argue, have a ref say we're done, and then they move on. Girl play was circular play. We're playing dress-up or dolls or family or school. So I remember the stupid thing you did to me yesterday, and I want to get you back today. It's the way that women are trained, and it's like inculcated at us, and it's awful. And so how do you just use power? Well, how your mom did, or your grandma, or your auntie. Well, they didn't have much access to power because, remember everybody, women didn't get the right to vote until 100 years ago. Women couldn't have their own credit cards until like 40 years ago. They couldn't inherit their own money. So we don't have a lot of power, um, uh, role models, right, coming down on how we can actually do it. So women have a tendency to either be very shrill and aggressive, which they call them a bitch, or, you know, or passive-aggressive or manipulative. Well, everyone who's listening to your podcast is smart enough to know that the power is in the middle. When to hold them, when to fold them, right? Yeah. When, when to grab your cards and run away. Yeah. When to stay and play. Yes. And what I want to tell people, the way you make that decision is you speak into the ears that are hearing you. Every single situation is different. How I handle you is different than I handle them, or them, or them, because I am in charge of my own power. And what I say to everybody, I better be better next year than I am this year. I mean, I'm 65 years old. I've been doing this a long time. I figured by the time I'm 70, maybe I got it down.

But, but that's the part of the power is we are okay with the fact that we want to continue to learn and grow and evolve. You know, I want to until, you know, I'm 6 feet under.

I agree with you. I agree with you.

Okay, I'm perfectly okay with, uh, you know, with all of that. Um, all right, okay. So where you also talk about, when it comes to your book Holding the Calm, uh, you also talk about creating small winnable victories.

Yes, ma'am.

Everybody always wants to go for the big victory.

Yes, ma'am.

So those small winnable victories are whatever the heck you can get.

Okay. And so instead of going for the big stuff, remember when I did the— I said the flip chart where you've got what are the solutions and what are the barriers?

Yes.

A barrier could be something so simple, like, I don't like when we're meeting. Or I— it, it's too close to lunch, right? There was actually a study done, interestingly, that, uh, parolees who came up before the board for their parole in the morning, or the early part of the morning, got much better deals on parole than people right before lunch because the judges were hungry.

Yeah, sure, angry. They were angry.

Okay, it's true. You don't know because you don't walk in the other person's shoes, so you don't really know. You have no idea what's going on. So this is the diagnosing and all that kind of stuff like we've been talking about. But that's why it's so important to figure out— every situation is different, and the more you do it, the better at it you're going to get, my friends, and the more fun it's going to get, and the less scary it's going to get.

Cool. That's huge because You also talk about— you also talk about be the grown-up, but at the same— but at the same time, I would think that there is a degree of confidence that comes into play here as well, to feel as if you're skillful, to feel as if you know how to do this. At least, you know, you always say best is the enemy of better. But, you know, so they're always looking for ways to be better. So help us understand what they can work on as far as even their confidence to then deal with diffusing tension.

And that's exactly what we're talking about. Where, where does good judgment come from? Making bad judgment. Where does experience come from? Falling in a hole and going, I'm not gonna fall in that hole again. I'm gonna— oh no, there's a hole over there. I'm not gonna do that again. That's how you get confidence, is you practice. And so what I always tell people is, if you've got a problem at work, practice at home. If you've got a problem at home, practice at work. Just practice. This is— it's not hard to do. We just don't know how to do it.

Right.

And I mean, I keep saying, squint. What's wrong with your eyes? Just look harder. Or give me a pair of glasses. Right. That's what this book is. It's a pair of glasses for people.

I love that. I love that. And do pick up her book, Coding the Calm: The Secret to Resolving Conflict and Diffusing Tension. One, one last tip that we can walk away with and say, all right, I'm going to work toward being better, not best, at diffusing tension.

Validation is the elixir of the universe. Catch somebody doing it right and it will completely transform the discussion, right? And not even look for someone, just catch someone doing it right. Doesn't matter. They're doing something right. Whatever it is they're doing or however they're doing it, catch them doing something right. It's amazing.

I love it. Love it. Thank you so much, Hesha. This has been fabulous.

My pleasure.

So follow her on LinkedIn, Hesha-Abrams-ESQ. You can also learn more about her at holdingthecom.com. And of course, go to Amazon and pick up her book, Holding the Calm. Thank you so much. I so appreciate this. It's been awesome.

My pleasure.

Hold the calm. That is according to our guest, Hesha Abrams, all around diffusing tension, resolving conflict, being skilled at identifying which she says diagnosing what the other person needs in order for then you to be successful at coming up with a solution. But she also has a famous saying around the fact that best is the enemy of better, that we keep trying to be the best or to come up with the best solution, the best idea, the best new creation. And that is kind of choking us in just all we need to do is be a little bit better. And so when it comes to learning how to be a skillful, skillful mediator, simply look to be better, simply look to try new things, as she says, practice. So then you can be better at diffusing tension and resolving conflict. For Anyone who is struggling with just trying to figure out how to be a powerhouse leader and how to build a very productive, effective, and successful team, then don't hesitate to reach out to me. You can always book a call just to discuss what it is that you're challenged with. You can go to coachmebernadette.com/discoverycall, and let's make sure that you're getting the tips and the strategies and support that you need to be that powerhouse leader you're meant to be. All right. I am honored that you are here with us this week, and I'll look forward to having you right back here next week for another episode of Shedding the Corporate Bitch. Take care. Bye. Thank you for tuning in to this episode of Shedding the Corporate Bitch. We hope you enjoyed the conversation and gained some valuable insights. Don't forget to follow us on Instagram, Facebook, Facebook and even LinkedIn to stay updated with the latest episodes. If you haven't already, make sure to subscribe to our podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, and our Shed the Bitch TV YouTube channel. Lastly, if you liked what you heard today, please give us a thumbs up, leave a review, and share it with your friends and colleagues. Thanks again for listening, and until next time, keep shedding those bitches of fear and impurity and doubt and start creating the riches in your work and life you deserve.