How To Be A Leader Who Develops Others to Lead Too... with Stacey Hall

Welcome, welcome, welcome everybody to this episode of Shedding the Bitch Radio. And on this episode, we're going to talk about how to be a leader who develops others to lead too. Instead of what people believe, and that is that a leader is someone who is able to be effective in training people to be good followers, we're going to talk about how leaders, um, actually work to develop others to be leaders themselves. So our guest, author, speaker, and founder of Success with Stacy Hall, shares with us a four-pronged strategy of empathy, education, empowerment, and encouragement to support those they manage to achieve not only the organization's mission but also each individual's goals. We're also going to talk about a great leader cares first about the people they manage, then about the organization's mission. Lastly, in addition, great leaders don't just teach the skills required to do the job, they also proffer deeper wisdom, according to the Harvard Business Review. So let's get on with the show.

Are you ready to create riches in your work and life? It's time for Shedding the Bitch Radio and TV, where you can discuss, debate, and get advice on how to discover and shed the bitches of fear fear, insecurity, self-doubt, and negativity so you can realize your dreams and life purpose and create and accelerate the riches in life you deserve. So let's welcome your Ball of Fire host, Bernadette Boas.

Hello everyone, and hello Stacy Hall.

Welcome to the program.

How are you today?

I am fabulous. I'm thrilled to be here. I love that intro. It's fantastic.

Oh, thank you so much. Thank you so much. Well, Stacy, um, I like to always start off with helping people get to know someone so they trust them and they like them, so they'll do with them. So share with us a little bit about you before we dive into the business stuff.

Oh my goodness, the, the most important thing I think anybody could ever share about themselves is their core values, and so I'm going to start there. I— my number one is that I have faith in God's for me. The second is I am trustworthy, and in order to be trustworthy, I also feel that personal accountability is extremely important. So I know what I say I want to count on myself for. Those are the only things I want to count on myself for, and so other people can then count on that for me. That said, my background is is in everything there was to do with marketing, sales, advertising, communications. I got trained in that. I've worked for corporations through the years like FedEx and Budget Rent-A-Car at manager and director levels. And then for the last 25 years, I've been focused solely on entrepreneurs of every size of business to be able to make sure they are able to make sales have more satisfaction, and achieve greater success. Sweet!

That's awesome, and your business is Success with Stacey Hall, and how do you define success for your clients? What is it that they're looking to achieve?

Okay, so I can't define success for anybody else, right? That's the point, they get to define it. So when we start talking, I always call a prospect a future friend. When I meet a future friend and we're talking about the problems they want to have solved. And I say to them, what would life look like if it was not this way anymore? They tell me what success would be. And so it's what success is, the solution to our problems.

Right, right, right. And it's very personal. And it's very personal. Yes. Um, so I love this subject because I don't think there's a lot of conversation about it. You know, leaders are meant to develop others to be leaders, not just kind of like, you know, forge forward to tick off boxes. So why do you feel the true measurement of a leader is how they develop their leaders? And how— and then secondly, I'm gonna want to make sure I get this out— and how is that measured?

I'm loving it, and I'm, I'm well prepared. There's just so much on the subject. So let's start with By its very definition, a leader has fans and followers.

Oh, I love that.

There are tons of leaders out there who continue to have fans and followers. Most of those people never become leaders in their own right. And so a leader that wants fans and followers, or I'm just going to say there's a leader who wants to develop other leaders. A leader who wants fans and followers is always going to stay a step ahead of those people. And the way they do it is they don't give all the information. They make dropping breadcrumbs—follow me on this path, I will always stay ahead of you. And I make these because I do that when I see some of the truth, whatever I consider to be the truth. And I'm noticing that's starting to happen. Versus, and I haven't come up with a better word because people resonate with the word leader or influencer. A leader or influencer who really wants to see other people lead, this is by its very definition the measurement. Are those people developing in the way that they want to develop? Or are they still regurgitating the same information that the leader's putting out? And a leader who develops leaders is willing to let people fly. And they probably need to leave for a while to be able to find their own base, their own audience, their own lifestyle. Because they've learned the skills and are applying them themselves. Right.

I love that. Let them fly.

Let them fly.

Yes. As opposed to so many— don't you find so many kind of hold them back for their own selfish reasons? And of course, they're not the leaders we're talking about. We're talking about the ones that are secure enough. And what are those attributes of a leader? What are those? I was about to start saying in myself. But I want to hear from you. What are those attributes of a leader that differentiate them from others?

Well, there's 4, I would say, and I call them 4 factors of a leadership style that leaves people to go off on their own. And I'm going to tell you, sometimes it just doesn't— it doesn't feel good. So yesterday I've had a couple of folks leave my group coaching and And you sit and think, "Oh, Sam," but it's not. It's not, Stacey. Remember, they're going off, they don't have the problem anymore, so they don't need what you're teaching. They told you that they're ready to fly, right? So, the first would be encouragement. Normally, I would say empathy, but because of yesterday, I would say it's to remember that they are not saying no to you. Me, right, anymore. It's not that they're saying no, they're saying, 'You got your job done, Stacy. Now I'm gonna go with what you've taught me. My business is growing.' My place is business growth. 'My business is growing. I don't need to be in the study group anymore. I'm blooming with what you've taught me,' because I always talk about seeding, sprouting, blooming. Okay, good to go. And so my job as a leader at that point is to not make them feel bad that they're leaving the group. It's It's to encourage them to go on, keep doing what they're doing, and let them know if they ever do need like a little tweak or a little tune-up, I'm here. And other than that, nothing could make me happier to see that they have all they require now to be successful in the way they want to be successful. So that's the first. Okay. Okay. The second— is empathy. I call them the 4 E's. Okay. Second is empathy. Empathy is listening for what they're actually saying, not interpreting what they're saying, actually listening for what they're saying. If they're saying this is their problem, we don't as a leader tell them you're wrong, this is your actual problem. Right. Right. Yes. And a lot of leaders do that. Oh, it's— yes, they do. Please jump in here. What have you seen in this arena?

Oh, no, no, no, no, no. You're doing great. No. Yes, that is one big area. And I'm going to— I'll ask you some questions as a follow-up and add some, some, something to it afterwards. But yes, I think people have a very difficult time. So-called leaders have a difficult time really listening with intention and listening with purpose. Yep. And with caring.

See, my favorite phrase, and you know, it gets debated, did Teddy Roosevelt say it, did Maya Angelou say it, it doesn't matter who said it first. I mean, it's the truth, is nobody cares how much we know. They only want to know how much we care, right? Yes. So the only way we can show that we care is through empathy and and feeling and acknowledging their feelings first before anything else. So, if they're feeling a certain way, so for example, let's say that I didn't intend to say anything that would cause harm or upset to someone, but we never have control over how somebody hears it, right? Right. If somebody has the courage to say to me, Stacy, when you said X, it made me feel this way. What I want to do as a leader is say, tell me more about that, as opposed to get defensive and go, well, I didn't mean that. It's not what I meant. You shouldn't be feeling that way. But I see a lot of leaders do that. It's like, you know, you're wrong for having those feelings and you need to work on that. It's like, why don't you tell me a little more about where that's coming from? So, I can understand, not do it again, apologize, exactly. That's empathy and acknowledgement.

Love it. Love it, love it, love it.

Love it, love it. Give me a second, I just want to make sure that I put these in the right order, if you will allow me to. All right, education and then empowerment. Okay. Okay, education. And empowerment. Education is not telling somebody what to do. Education is providing the principles, resources, allowing, giving them the resources to go explore for themselves. Right. Encouraging them, again, more encouragement, go explore and gain your own knowledge. Tell me, come back and tell me what you got. As opposed to it is this way or the highway, right? We are not— leaders are not teachers. Yep. A leader that creates leaders is a guide, right?

Oh, I love that. I love it, love it, love it.

Because they could be—

they could be taught as well, you know. Go off and fly and learn something, bring it back, because you know what? I just might not know that. Piece of information or that knowledge. It happens all the time.

Absolutely. The folks who come regularly, they're not followers, they are all, you know, the ones who come regularly have really developed this, and I leave time every day, what do you get, tell me, what are you picking up, I see you're nodding, what are you getting for yourself out of this? And one of the empowerment ways, and those empowerment is teaching our— the folks— or guiding, I just used the word teaching, I'm going to use guiding. Guiding the folks who come to us for solutions to empower themselves. And I've got a little tool that I teach people and I say, put down your bat, because so many people beat themselves up and put themselves down, right? Put down your bat, pick up your pom-poms. But what they're expecting at the beginning. So they'll hear something that somebody else does in the group, and they'll pick up their pom-pom, and I'll say, "Are you cheering them, or are you cheering you?" "Oh no, I'm loving what they said. I'm cheering them on." And I'll say, "No, you got something. That's to cheer yourself on." Right. And to learn how to help our folks validate themselves. Sure. So they don't require us to validate them, right?

Oh, absolutely. That I, that I absolutely love, that leaders really should work to have an individual validate themselves, not to come looking for it. Oh, I love that. Absolutely. And we don't talk enough about that.

I've never had, never ever Have I had a mentor, and I've had some fabulous mentors. You know, they say, give yourself credit, right? Right. But it took me a very long time to break the habit of looking to my mentor for approval. Am I doing it right? Okay, and they go, oh yeah, that's great, and I give them— again, I have fabulous— I have a mentor now. Wonderful, right? But it dawned on me one day that if I'm doing this for the people who come to me for tips and resources— I'm not going to say for leadership, for tips and resources— and I keep doing that approval thing, I am keeping them in a small place.

Well, I think it goes back to what you said about the fact that leaders are, are, you know, are actually kind of responsible to, you know, turn over and allow them— and I love your terms of, you know, and I'm going to try to go in the order that you mentioned them— encouragement, empathy, education, and empowerment. Um, because we're supposed to be— it's almost like a parent and a child. We're supposed to be guiding them and giving them the tools, right? So they can go off and, and be, you know, mature, happy, fulfilled, complete. Individuals. And that's what leaders should be doing, is what I'm hearing from you.

That's what they say is— and you said it beautifully— if you're not worried about holding on to that client, because I'm mostly talking about coaches right now, right? That's where— or team leaders in the network marketing field, it's all about keeping them. Yeah. And that's control. Right. And I get that sales paradigm. It's a sales paradigm. I say there are millions of people out there. Couldn't I contribute better to the world by helping other people find their calling, be in their power, as I like to say, in their comfort zone of their core values and their success? Am I not contributing more to the world by doing that? Than by saying, hey, come along and follow me and let's all do this. You know, like a little wobbly— yeah, rooster, right?

Well, don't you find that there's, you know, there's the individual and they're characterized in either as a manager who's just wanting to delegate and point and, and tell people what to do, and then there's true leaders who are really working to ensure that those individuals are being developed, you know, in the most empowered, empathetic, educated, and encouraging way, so then they can go off and lead, you know, themselves and others as well.

Absolutely. And, and I, I'm not, I'm not putting down the other leadership style. It is a choice, right? I made the choice that that I wanted to be this kind of leader. Other people choose to be that kind of leader. And you know, there's people for each type. There are folks who like to be told what to do. Right. And that's okay. Like, then that's, that's a match for them.

That's interesting. That's interesting. I need to dig into that with you. I need to dig into that with you. So do you find that the people that you work with, and/or people that you just kind of speak to and educate and whatnot, do you really think that they consciously make that choice, or they're just not aware or self-aware, and they're just not educated on really what it takes to be an effective leader? Because that's where Shedding the Bitch and Shedding the Corporate Bitch came from, is I thought my way was effective, was productive, was, you know, was supporting not only other people but myself, and it was anything but. So do you really think they make that choice intentionally, or is it just that that's their mode of operation and they know— they don't know any better? It's exactly what you said.

They're not self-aware until they're given the choice to make. And, and I have folks who people who come to me, they say they want to step into their leadership and I say, "Great, this is my training program. I'm going to teach you how to get—" I'm using the word teach, but I'm going to guide you to be able to be in alignment with yourself and your core values and your calling and your goals. I'm going to teach you that. Then it's going to be up to you to believe in that alignment If you tell the truth about what is important to you, right, it would necessarily be easy to believe in it. And if you believe in it, it makes it very easy to consistently do activities, right, that will lead to your success, right? It's just— it's logical. Sure, absolutely. Where it breaks down is in the alignment pieces. I start giving them exercises to help them identify their core values, help them identify their goals, help them to identify what might have been keeping them from it, and they come face-to-face with, you remove the blocks, now I actually have to do something on my own. At that point, I have folks who say, you know what, I don't think I'm ready for this. And it is just where their life is at that moment, right, or the tools and skills that they have up to that moment say, you know what, I think I'm just going to stay where I'm at right now. I'm just going to keep taking orders, and maybe down the road I'll be ready to make some changes, right, right, right. So it— that's— I agree with you, they do not know ahead of time until they start moving through the exercises.

Yeah, sure, sure. Gosh, what— wow. Well, and I, um, so I pulled, and it was from some of the notes that you had, and I, and I'm gonna have to read it because, um, I have a lot of data in my head at the moment. But, um, you had written that according to a Gallup study, when an organization focuses on individual strengths— so what we're talking about, giving them empowerment, encouragement, education, and and empathy, employee engagement increases from 9% to 73%, which blew my mind. Yeah, please, you know, help all of us listening and watching understand what, what's involved in that and how can they kind of take, take it and get that type of employee engagement.

Okay, so we're going to step back over that as well, and I'm with you. So it doesn't happen once the employee is there or once the person has joined the team. So we're going to look at leadership here, corporate managers and directors, right? And then in the entrepreneurial world, right, there's so many millions, right, team leaders, right? Same situation. Before somebody comes into your department, before somebody asks to join your team as a builder, we'll call it, that's the term, we want to find out if they're in alignment with the mission of the department and the company or with the mission of the team and the company. Right. That's where it begins is why Do you feel you're in alignment with our mission and purpose? That question hardly ever gets asked, not even in the human resources department. It's, tell me about your background and why does it, you know, right? Let's get down to, here's our mission, here's our purpose. I want to hear why you think you're aligned with it. Yes. If you're not aligned with it, we're not going to have any fun together. Doesn't matter which side, right? So that's the first piece. Person says they're aligned, we decide to take them at their word, they come in, we start having conversations. And when I say we, it can be one-to-one or in the group dynamic. Right. Right. If all those conversations are focused on the purpose and the mission, getting that accomplished, then everybody has a say. The manager may be ultimately responsible for the results, but that makes it easy for a manager or a director or a team leader to go, okay, here's the goal, here's our mission and purpose, everybody has an equal say on inputting ideas, and then the manager, director, team leader can say, okay, I'm going to go with this. I do have final decision-making power. To get us to the goal, and I'm doing it with the input of everyone.

I was going to say that goes back to what you were saying in regards to empathy with listening. You want to listen to understand, and you may be the final decision maker on something is what I'm hearing, but yet you're at least engaging each other and making everybody feel as if they're, you know, kind of contributing, and though you have the final decision.

In that particular one, it comes down on one person's shoulders. But oftentimes, and I'm going to say, and oftentimes, the goal can still be the goal. In listening, we can craft a strategy that fits each person's strengths, right? Isn't that what encouragement is about? Right. So, all right, instead of everybody doing it the same same way when we were created? Because right now I'm on my soapbox. You go, Stacy, you go. I'm just gonna say it because I know everybody watching is gonna agree with me on this. How many times have we heard we're all unique and we should embrace our uniqueness? And I'm not making fun of that, I agree with that. If that's the case, then why would we get into companies we all have to operate the same way? Right? Well, what happened to my uniqueness? So, a director or manager or team leader, 'cause it also happens in the network marketing, affiliate marketing world, the same thing. Now we get to duplication. Everybody has to duplicate the same way. Right. No. What if we have a goal and each person shares their vision of how they would get to the goal and the director, manager, team leader is able to craft a strategy out of that that allows each person to make their contribution to it. Love it. And that's what that poll is about. You do that, watch how productivity, profitability goes way up.

Oh my gosh, it's, it's so true. I'm getting all like excited about it because it is so true. And, and Stacy, a lot of the things that we're talking about seem so simple. Why is it so hard? Why is it so hard for individuals to have empathy, to encourage people, to give them the education and the tools, let them fly? What is getting in their way?

The lack of being treated that way. Oh, ow, yeah, ouch, yeah. Okay, I was sharing this, you and I were talking right before the recording, right, on the concept of why it's so hard to make a sale sometimes, because we treat our prospects like our parents with the allowance. Well, my parents— I grew up in a household where both parents worked outside the home in jobs. They had to toe the line. And I can see very clearly what they brought home to how they raised me and my sister was as if we were employees of the family company, right? Yeah, yeah, right. So to get an allowance, you had to do chores, you had to work before you make money, right? Well, how they were treated by their bosses, I can see, is also how we were treated, and it just rolls down the line. If a company doesn't interject, or if a leader doesn't seem to go get a different kind of leadership development training, then it just keeps getting repeated and repeated and repeated.

Agreed. Absolutely agreed. Geez Louise. And it's like a lot of things in life, right? You know, generation after generation after generation just pulls these old beliefs, behaviors, values, or lack thereof forward. And, you know, and the cycle just continues.

Do you know, have you heard the joke about the ham and the pan? No. All right, so this one, this is like, it's gone around, I remember from years and years ago. Little girl is in the kitchen with her mother, so, you know, very traditional, and they're making a holiday dinner, and it's a ham, and the mother, chops off the ends of the ham. Okay? Looks perfectly good, but so the little girl says to her, "Why did you—" Oh, and takes it and throws it away. Okay? Says, "Why did you chop off the ends?" And the mom says, "Because that's how your grandmother used to do it." Well, next year they're going to grandma's for the same holiday dinner, and there's grandma doing the same thing to ham, chopping off the ends, throwing them away, and the little girl says, "Grandma, mom says, And she does it the same way because that's how you do it. Why do you do it? She says, I don't know. That's what your great-grandmother used to do. Well, fortunately, great-grandma is still alive. And she said, you know, why don't we call great-grandma and find out why she did that. It's just the way we've always done it. So, they get on the phone. They call great-grandma for the holidays. And the little girl says, great-grandma, my mommy cuts off the ends of the ham. My grandma cuts off the ends of the ham. They say they do that because you did it. Why do you do it? And she said, because we only have one pan in the house and the ham was always too big, so to get it into the pan to put it in the oven, I had to cut off the ends of the ham. I don't know why they're doing it.

Oh, that's hysterical and so appropriate. I'm gonna have to remember that. That is so appropriate, and it's such a perfect example of just kind of how these ongoing attitudes and behaviors just can, you know, continue. And somewhere along the line, we have to break the chain, we have to break the pattern.

So you talked about your 4 prongs.

In those 4 prongs was encouragement and empathy and a lot about listening. How can leaders really learn how to give praise, how to give feedback in a way that moves individuals forward as opposed to breaking them down. But what are some good tips for giving praise in a positive way?

Okay, and, and I truly learned this myself by what felt good to me and what didn't feel good to me, and, and by people telling me what didn't feel good to them and me saying, oh my God, I cannot believe I did that. In my household, like, I said my parents disciplined us, I'm pretty sure the way they were probably disciplined on the job because it felt weird many times. It was always no. Like, I am trained to say no first. It embarrasses me. It comes out of my mouth as quickly as, you know, it's automatic. Which is why when I hear somebody say something and I now, like, I want to say no, I stop myself because that is not what I know they want to hear first. So, I would say the— I mean, there's tons of tips in my ebook, and I know you're going to tell people about that. I'm going to say first, let's remember how we would want to be treated. Yeah. So, I've learned to say, thank you, I appreciate you doing that, I appreciate you saying that. I appreciate the effort you put into that. Thank you. And, and, and this came from— I heard this in improv comedy way back. I'm from Chicago, so, and I remember taking some improv classes, and they'd say the way you keep something moving forward— this is why it stuck with me— is if you use but, you bring people to the past. Right, right. Or you negate. Right. So always use "and." Yes. Thank you for doing that, and in the future, how about if we did it like this? Or, and I noticed there's typos, would you be able to correct those? And I understand, thank you for telling me that's why you were late, and I understand In the future, would you be able to call me? It's as simple as acknowledging again what they say, appreciating the feedback, and then moving forward with the correction. Yes. Instead of criticism.

Not criticism, correction. Right, correction, not criticism. I love that. And, you know, coming from an improv background myself, Yeah, they're evident to me. And quite honestly, I know I have to— I'm going to focus on whether or not I'm actually using it myself, you know, as I go throughout the day. Especially, I wish I had paid attention to it this morning on a kind of a challenging, difficult call with the service provider. And thank you, and would have came in very, very handy on that call for sure.

And is that something that—

of course it can be learned.

What I, what I'm really gaining out of everything that you're sharing as well is it really also comes down to self-awareness, is being very kind of alert, conscious, kind of intentional about really paying attention to, you know, what are you thinking? What are you saying? How are you behaving? You know, what's working and what's not working? You know, so is there a lot of kind of work on self-awareness or the, you know, the presence of now in your work?

I would say yes, and it's not a correction. Yes, absolutely. I'm going to add something into it because sometimes we can't make the correction from the logic of it, right? The logics is the thinking. All right. In addition to what you said, what there is a lot in what I do and how I guide leaders is listen to your gut. We know immediately whether we know why— why is up here— we know when something doesn't feel good in our gut, and it's more than just woo-woo. I mean, the nerves of our body actually end in our hands, our feet, and are lining our colon wall. I know a lot of people don't know that. So when we talk about a gut feeling, the same— like, we can feel things not quite right, our gut feels it too. It's listening from there. Paying attention to that gut intuition If I said something and I don't feel good about how I put that, immediately walking it back. Right. Right. And so, that's where the self-awareness, having the courage to know that I can say, "I apologize. I did not mean for that to come out that way. It was a gut reaction. I hope you will forgive me." Now that takes some courage and that takes some willingness to be vulnerable. And so yes, that's the part of the self-awareness. I believe everybody has gut feelings. Right, right, right.

Male or female, because it always tends to get tied to women having that intuition, that gut feeling. But because it's what you're— what you explained about the colon, that makes it physical. Your body is physically reacting. It's not this, like what you said, woo-woo. It's that literally your, your body is physically reacting and responding. It's almost like you, um, mentioned earlier about sneezing, right? Yeah, you know, uh, you know, your body is responding to what it is that you're thinking and feeling and doing. Um, yeah, and so if we can understand that, you know, more tangibly is the only word that's coming up for me. Um, yeah, that's awesome. I love it. I love it, love it, love it. Well, you had mentioned, and I want to as well, you do have an ebook in regards to, um, excuse me, uh, Leaders Creating Leaders, Not Followers. So will you share with us, um, some of those tidbits? And also, um, I'll mention the website for our listeners who aren't, um, watching us, but share with us what they can learn from this since we were talking about those tips.

Well, it's what I guide in the ebook is the 4 areas, that encouragement, the empathy, the education, and the empowerment, and how I actually do give tips in the ebook on what it would look like. Like, this is how you could do it. And so for each of those 4, that's what the ebook is. It's— you're going to be Given those statistics that you shared, and then to encourage, here's how you can show encouragement, these are things to say. Here's how to show empathy and acknowledgement. Here's how to provide education that helps them be able to educate themselves. And here's how you do empowerment, of giving them ways to take power. And I would say that might be the hardest part for a new leader because we've been so trained that a leader controls, right? Like, you've, you've gotten to this point now, you get to say how it goes. Yes, I get to say how it goes for me. Right, right. If I'm involving a team of people, I, they get to say how it goes for them. And then for some people that just looks like chaos. So the empowerment piece, I would say, is probably the most important of the four. And how do you encourage them to step into their empowerment without creating chaos? Right.

Well, and don't you find though that even before you get to your team, individual that's showing up and now maybe is a new leader, but a lot of them are like long-term leaders or so-called long-term managers of people. But don't you find though that it's their own limiting beliefs, it's their own insecurities, doubts, negativities, what we call bitches here in this world. But don't you find it starts there as far as whether or not they're going to, you know, open up and allow other people to grow and be encouraged and to contribute and add value, let alone letting them fly and, you know, go and, you know, get a better job, better position, better company, better salary than the individual leader itself, you know. So, so it doesn't— doesn't it— does it start there, or does it start with that body of team that you talked about?

No, I completely agree with you. That's why I say again, the empowerment piece. If I was getting the ebook, well, first off, it starts with somebody deciding they want to even see what's in the ebook, right? Right, right, well, that's true. Are you considering being a different type of leader, one that feels more satisfying to you, more satisfying to the people you're engaging with? And then what I would say is if you choose to download the ebook, jump straight to the empowerment portion. It's sectioned. Okay. And from there you'll know whether that's a style you want to adopt. And again, there's, there's two different styles. The one that really likes to be at the head of the line and everybody lines up with that, and I'm not saying there's anything wrong, there's in certain situations and for certain people that feels right and And there will always be people who would like to follow because it takes responsibility. Followers do not have any responsibility. Mm-hmm. Right? It's true. Yep. That's true. And, and I'm— again, I'm not pointing fingers, I'm telling facts. Right. If somebody does— is not in a place where they want to take on any responsibility, then you want to lead— you want to follow a leader who's happy to take it all on. Right, and control it. All you have to do is just do what they tell you to do, right? If you're a leader though that's tired of—

and this is what I hear all the time—

you're tired of being a babysitter, you're tired of hearing excuses, you're tired of having everything fall on your own shoulders, right? You're not— these are the things that I used to say when I said— because I know if I'm complaining about something, there's got to be another way. So I sat down and said, if I don't want people that I babysit, what am I doing that's creating that? Right. I changed that. If I don't want people who complain and give me excuses all the time, how am I showing up that they think that they're allowed to do that? Okay, let's change that. And if I'm tired of being the one who's always doing the work, how am I showing up? Is it because I let them know I'm perfectly happy to do it because there's only one way to do it? Right, right. Maybe because I'm showing up as there's only one way to do it, they're like, well, okay, I don't know how to do it that way, so you just go ahead, Stacey. And that's how I started to make these changes.

Yeah, well, I, excuse me, I love the thought process and that kind of the microscope that's put on the employee because as you were saying that, I was like really challenged with it. I'm like, what do you mean? It's, you know, that individual is looking for somebody who is not gonna hold them responsible and accountable and therefore they want a commanding, controlling leader. But then all of a sudden you're saying it and explaining it and I'm like running through my head of people I know from the past, present, and I, I'm like, you're right. I, there, I could pick out one or two individuals that really kind of wanted to wash their hands of any responsibility, and therefore they tolerate, though they complain, they tolerate these leaders that they're complaining as controlling and commanding. But at the same time, when you ask Well, you know, what responsibility do you have in that? And then they deflect.

Yes. Oh, I totally— I know the song you're singing. That's exactly— they are the followers complain, right? But they don't change. They don't leave because it would require them having to do it. So much easier to complain. Like, if I was in their shoes, I would be doing this. Well, why don't you go out and then— and as you said, then the deflections come. Wow. All right, I'm just saying, I'm just saying, it would be so much better if they just did this. That's all I'm saying. Right, right.

Oh, it's so true. It is so true. All right, I want to make sure for our listeners, um, not just our viewers, her, uh, the location you can go to download her ebook, which is Leaders Create Leaders, Not Followers, is a tiny URL, so it's tinyurl.com/staceyhallebook, and that's Hall, H-A-L-L, ebook. And I'll make sure, Stacey, that we also put it in the post links, or into the post, we'll put the link so people can kind of go right there when they actually listen or download or view this interview. But oh my gosh, this has been awesome.

Thank you so very much.

The gratitude is all mine.

I have had the most fun. You are the best host and the most fabulous questions. I don't know about anybody who's watching this, but I have just had the best time. Oh, that's so nice of you.

Thank you so much. And this whole subject around how to be a leader that actually works to develop leaders is so dear to my heart. Because that's just what we need in order to kind of make the changes out there in business and life that will make us all more fulfilled, more happy, and achieve more riches in our life. So thank you so much for being part of it, everyone. And I do want to remind you, please go out to—

excuse me—

her website as well, stacyannhall.com/home. And I need to emphasize, please make sure you put forward slash home But it's StacyAnn with no E, StacyAnnHall.com/home, and we'll make sure that that link is also put out there for everyone to see.

Thank you again, Stacy.

This has been great, absolutely great. And for everyone else, thank you so much for joining and listening and/or watching us on this episode of Shedding the Bitch Radio and TV, all about leaders who develop others to be truly leaders. And if you want to learn more about what we're doing here, you can always go to ballofirecoaching.com and be sure to subscribe to our show both on any one of your podcast streaming services and YouTube so you don't miss any of the great experts and topics that we have. So until next Tuesday at noon Eastern time, I wish you a very rich and happy week, and I'll talk to you soon. Bye everyone.

Thank you for taking part in Shedding the Bitch Radio and TV with Bernadette Boas. We would love to know what your biggest takeaway was. Go to Shedding the Bitch on Facebook or YouTube and leave a comment. You can also subscribe to the show on Apple Podcasts and YouTube so you don't miss a single episode of the show. And with your input, we can help other powerhouse women just like you find the show and decide if it's right for them. Learn more about Bernadette at balloffirecoaching.com. See you next week.