How to Energize Your Team to Profits with Danielle Boris

Is your team lacking the energy, enthusiasm, and creativity you want and need from them? Do you even know? And if you do, do you even know why? Our guest, Danielle Boras, CEO of Sandbox, is dedicated to helping you understand why that is. Danielle is passionate about the fact that we need to put humans at the center of our organizations. When we do, inclusion, hiring, advancement, learning and development, well-being, and yes, retention all fall into place. And that fuels the bottom line. According to Danielle, only by unboxing humans can employees, managers, and organizations all win together. In this episode, Danielle helps you to motivate your team members to contribute all of their talents and skills and passions that will accelerate their performance. She'll share tips and strategies for not only ensuring diversity, equity, and inclusion, but also belonging, and at the same time give you ways you can help them elevate their performance so it's a win-win for everyone. So let's energize your team. Welcome, welcome, welcome to Shading the Corporate Bitch, the podcast that transforms female corporate executives into powerhouse leaders by showing them how to shed the challenges and overwhelm along with any fear, insecurity, self-doubt, and negativity holding them back. I'm your host, Bernadette Boas of Fall of Fire Coaching, bringing you powerhouse discussions each week to share tips, advice, and sometimes tough love so you create the riches in your work and life you deserve. Let's do this! Welcome, Danielle. I'm so excited for you to be here.

Thank you so much for having me. I can't wait to chat with you.

Yes, me too. And I love this subject. And I actually— I'm gonna already jump into the fact that I love the title of your book, The Energy of Weirdos, and we will get into that. Uh, but at the same time, before we do, tell us a little bit about Danielle.

Yeah, well, thank you so much. I've gotten so much great feedback on the title and on the book, so I can't wait to get into that later. I was born and raised in New York, so I am one of those rare people who is a lifelong New Yorker in New York City. We do exist. And I do think that had an influence on me growing up in such a unique place surrounded by incredible diversity. And one of the things that I really love about it that I've reflected on as an adult is that everyone in this city is like doing something. They're really taking whatever makes them unique and they are trying to be an actor, achieve whatever goal they are. And there's such a wide variety of goals that are here. And so that's really influenced me throughout my life. Then I went to college and I studied communication and technology, landed my first job. And quickly realized that in the corporate world, they don't necessarily, by they, I mean, you know, organizations aren't necessarily designed to help everyone flourish with what make, you know, against what makes everyone unique. We see people and we see like job title and ladder, but most people don't just go straight up a ladder. And so it started, you know, to, marinate in my mind, and I can get into all sorts of stories later on. And it ultimately led me to start a company, to write a book, and to also launch a podcast all about, you know, what makes people unique and how we can really harness the energy of everyone's unique qualities.

Yes. Well, that is fabulous. And coming from someone so young, you know, to kind of really be embracing that and being a major almost lieutenant of it, especially in the corporate world, is absolutely fantastic. So I applaud you. I applaud you because that is absolutely fantastic. Now, I also know, or I read, that you went to Cornell. And you were also recently in the late last several months awarded 10 Under 10.

Yes, I went to Cornell for undergrad and then also for my MBA.. And the Johnson Cornell MBA has started doing a list of 10 Under 10 Notable Alumni every year. And I was incredibly honored to be named one of their 10 Under 10 Notable Alumni for 2022. It was named in, I believe, October of 2022. So just a few months ago. Nice. You know, there's so many incredible people at Cornell University, and our alumni network is just vast. And I mean, so many just wonderful, brilliant, talented individuals. So to be named amongst them was truly an honor.

Well, and it was, you know, let's make sure we honor your riches, as I call it here. But it was also because of your focus on, you know, what we're going to talk about today, on, you know, embracing weirdos and how to, you know, how to energize your team and innovation and diversity, equity, inclusion, and blending— or belonging, I'm sorry— and belonging. So that in itself is also something to be extremely proud of.

Thank you so much. Yeah, everyone who they named was doing extraordinary work. They say it is in your 9 to 5, but also in your volunteer work and how you give back and get involved with the university as well. And it was very interesting to me. It was, you know, I got the email that I had been nominated and I had won. And when I was going through the questions because they write a lovely profile on each of the winners, I was thinking about my volunteer work. I was like, my volunteer work. And I realized, and I think a lot of people realize this too, if they were to reflect, our lives get so blended, right? We do the things that we love. And the things that are volunteering, I never even thought of them as volunteering, right? So to speak. I just naturally wanted to give back in these different ways. You know, I talk about working with an organization called Publicolor, where they paint New York City public schools these beautiful, bright colors, and it increases attendance and increases grades. It makes students feel safer. Increases graduation rates. All these wonderful metrics skyrocket because students actually enjoy going to the school when it's colorful and bright and welcoming. And then they also, of course, mentor the students as well as a different part of the organization. I'm like, I don't really consider like today I'm volunteering. I'm like, oh, I enjoy doing this. And the same with some other organizations I'm involved with.

Well, that's beautiful because they do always say, you know, Find, find an occupation you love and you never, you know, work a day in your life. Yeah, because you're just doing what it is that you love. You happen to be getting paid for it, but you know, you're just doing what you love. That's absolutely fabulous. So what was it you said? You know, you could tell a lot of stories about your experiences, especially when you took your first corporate job and before you went out on your own, and probably since. But what was it that really bothered you about the way that we show up at work and the way organizations treat those employees that work for them? What was it that provoked you to say, wait, I got to figure this out and I got to get the answer to it?

Yeah, there was really a defining moment for me. So it was that when I was 22, I was in my first week of work and I had landed my, you know, what I thought was my dream job at a fantastic company with fantastic employees and managers. I mean, the job a million girls would kill for, right? As the double rose pot says. And I was walking to a meeting with my 27-year-old colleague and I was excited. I mean, I don't know if you or anyone listening, remembers that feeling of your first week of work.

I did it.

I'm here. Look where I am. I'm going to a meeting. I mean, there's just nothing more exciting. And my colleague turns to me and sees my excitement. And she says, I remember when I used to be excited. You'll get over that. And she wasn't trying to put me down. Everyone hears this. Oh my God. She said she really wasn't trying to put me down. She was, you know, And she saw me, oh, it's so sweet. This young person is excited. But in that moment, I remember feeling this overwhelming sense of, I never want to feel over it. I never want to be at work and be like, I'm just here because that's where I am. And I was lucky enough to work for a corporation that really believed in employee engagement. And we had all of these wonderful engagement activities. We had summer carnivals. We had free lunches 2 days a week. We had cold brew on tap. We had endless snacks. We had beer. We had cheese. I mean, you name it, right? It was like the definition of employee engagement, like at this company. Right. And I leaned in, I leaned into every single activity because I was not going to let myself feel over it.

Yeah.

But it didn't really work because all of the activities were extracurricular, right? They were outside of my day to day. But what I found was that as I got, you know, more advanced, a better understanding of my work and a better handle on it, as everyone naturally does, the learning curve started to drop off. And as it continued to drop and drop and drop, which the organization saw as my increased inco— you know, increasing competence, right? Oh, I'm being more productive, more effective. I felt, and employees feel, as getting bored because we want to be learning, right? And so I wasn't learning as much. So I was doing all of these really fun engagement activities, but it didn't change my job.

Yeah.

And so then it was left to me to figure out, okay, how do I stay engaged in my day-to-day work? And what does that look like? And I started to explore, um, you know, why this is happening and what this looks like across different organizations.

Nice. Now, did you take that query, so to speak, to your managers, to the people within that organization? And if so, what was their response to it?

Yeah, I was very fortunate to have amazing leaders. So I, you know, felt myself craving challenge, I'll say, craving more challenge. And I was again lucky enough to work in a company where people wanted you to reach out and talk to them about their jobs and what they were doing. And it was a great organization, it was a wonderful culture. And so I did that. I would reach out, you know, cold Slack message, right? People, I said, your job title seems interesting. I'd love to have a coffee chat with you. And I learned more about different parts of the organization. And I sort of said, that sounds interesting, that, you know, over here, not so interesting. And I spoke with my SVP and I said, you know, I think a different type of role would be better that involves, you know, more creativity. The role I was in was very standardized. It had to be because we were creating advertising metrics across all of our clients. So it needed, everything needed to be very standardized. And he saw that and he said, what if you did this type of role also on the research team? And he actually created a role for me on a different team within my same department. So he was right. I mean, shows a great leader, right? Instead of saying, which many leaders would, sit down and do your work. I had only been there 8 months, right? He could have easily said, sit down and do your work. You know, you're now 23, chill. He said, look at someone who's taking, you know, initiative and who's saying, I want to stay here. And, you know, he— because— and that's what's makes him a fantastic leader. Yeah, so he did that.

Now, did you find at all that, that, that thirst for creativity, for challenge, for change, for newness, was— did you find that just amongst the younger side of the employees, you know, group, or even the more, you know, senior were also craving that challenge and that newness?

I like to say everyone craves it. However, two things happen as we get older, or many things, but two main things, I believe, which is the first is that our priorities naturally change. When we're 22, we might be more excited to make new friends at work. We're going to work for a variety of reasons. When we're in our 50s, 40s or 50s or 60s, why we're working probably has changed because there's so many life events that have— we might have more responsibilities outside of work, whatever it may be. So that, that's one thing. The second is that I find the older we get, especially with work, sometimes the more jaded we get and the more we say, you know what, work is work. And that's just the way it is. But I have all these things outside my life that can fulfill me, and there's nothing wrong with any of it. And I always like to say that people say, you know, well, I just work to work. I said, there's nothing wrong with that. I'm not saying that work has to be everyone's life passion, but not at all, by no means. So what's different is that younger people are— I've seen, you know, are more willing to say, like, I don't like this and I can, and I want to do something about it versus, um, I don't like this and, but I'm a little jaded about it and that's the way it is. Um, I do find that Gen Z, however, is particularly, um, oh, what's the right word? They, they're particularly driven to be in careers that have purpose and that fulfill them, that they love, where they're engaged in their day to day. Right. And they're challenged appropriately. So Gen Z, I find, has very little tolerance for not being happy at work.

Yes. Yeah. And have you seen any of them yet?

What's the max?

What's the oldest of a Gen Z?

So technically, I am the last millennial. So Gen Zs are older. It sort of happened with the millennials too. By the time millennials were in their late 20s, millennials are in the workforce. We've been here for a while. So the oldest Gen Zs are actually in their mid to— starting to be in their late 20s already. All right.

All right. Because I was curious from the children, family, stability perspective. It'll be interesting to watch whether or not that changes. I would hope not, but that'll be interesting to watch. So was, was that defining moment what caused you to go out and start your own company?

So eventually, I didn't realize it at the time. So I switched departments with, within my— I'm sorry, I switched roles within the same department at the company I was working in. And then a year later I did ultimately leave and go to a different organization. This time I was at a very legacy company, a few hundred years old. Oh wow. And I had gone from the media industry to a very startup culture, like from a very startup culture to legacy luxury jewelry. And so from, you know, the type of company, very different. However, I again was blessed to have wonderful leaders who I'm still friends with to this day, and to be in a role that I loved. I mean, I really loved the work I was doing for this organization. But the same thing happened again, not necessarily where my colleagues, you know, said, oh, you'll get over it, but where I wanted to continue to be challenged and continue to use my skill set, um, in other ways at the company. So what I mean by that is I now had, um, a research skill set, a user experience design skill set. So for the non-tech people, it's a, it's a type of tech job where you can design, um, website and application interfaces. Um, and I had a product management skill set, so I could oversee the whole process and understand what different priorities there were and, you know, how to prioritize one feature over another and all of that. And I loved the work I was doing, but I felt like I could be helpful in other areas and I had the time and I was already being paid. I was a salary employee. So I wanted to get more involved and say like, oh, you know, is there another project I can join? And, you know, is there a team that maybe needs my skillset but doesn't know I exist? And I knew it was happening because I didn't know where they were. So how could they know where I was? And my manager was supportive of it. My director was supportive of it. But no one really knew how to connect the dots together because we didn't necessarily have a project that someone was coming and saying, can you help us with? Right. Because otherwise I would have been on it.

Right.

So it was interesting to see how two very different companies had the same problem. From there, I went to do my MBA, and that is really where I started to understand how organizations are run and proper leadership. And actually, on day 1 of my MBA is when I started exploring the idea for my startup and really understanding, am I the only one having these experiences? Why are employees leaving? And what paths are they taking to leave? And is there something we can do to help them thrive and also help the company thrive in the process?

Nice. Very nice. Because that's all I do every day is talk to leaders and their people to gain that exact assessment. And yes, and it's— and it's— it definitely is a problem to be solved, is, you know, how do you just keep employees passionate and creative, energetic. And that's hence the name of our show is, you know, How to Energize Your Team. So what would you tell— what would you tell leaders out there when it comes to whether it's somebody just coming into the company and onto their team or they've been there a while, meaning the employee's been there a while, and yet they may not have a clue as to the struggle that that individual is feeling? What would you share with them?

It's a great question. And where I find that leaders continuously miss out is that they often project what they want and what they love onto their team members. And it's really easy to do. And I talk about this in my book. Like, before we judge someone for doing this, We all do it. And so that is, you know, a story I like to tell is I was speaking with a leader of a team of 500. So he was, you know, further up the ladder. And I told him, you know, all about what I do. And you know, how you have to focus on the individual and what the individual really loves. And it might not seem relevant to the work at the time, but you're trying to get to know them as a person, right? What if you could do anything? What would you do today? Forget work, forget whatever, like what really makes you tick and what sparks your joy, like what energizes you? And so I was telling him all about this and he said, I totally get it. However, no one in my organization would want to do any of the projects that we And I just stopped for a second and I said, like, he's telling me that everyone is so disengaged, he cannot imagine a world where they're happy. Like, it is, it's crazy to think about. And he's, he's the leader, right? He has 500 people under him. So my mind is going wild. Like, what are the most boring jobs I can think of? Which of course is subjective to me because what I think is boring, someone else finds fascinating. So I said, you know, I have to know, what do you do? Because, you know, he had asked me first, so I didn't get a chance to talk, ask him. And this is at a networking event. And he said, well, at the company, we, you know, we're a consulting-based company. So we actually service all types of clients in web development, from music, entertainment, to food and bev, all the way to building internal tools for corporations. And he said, of course, everyone would want to be on the entertainment clients. Those are the most fun. But who in their right mind would wanna build internal tools for corporations? And I said, well, I would. And that's part of where the title came from. I am that weirdo who loves building internal tools for corporations. In fact, I built an entire company that is an internal tool for corporations. And so basically, you know, to him, nothing could be worse, but to someone on his team, it might be really exciting. And he just assumed no one would want to do it and thus assigned it to anyone, right? Versus understanding what everyone is interested in and then assigning work based on those interests.

I remember there was multiple times in my career where— and I guess I'm a weirdo because welcome— I love the processes, the procedures, the tools. I loved going from start to finish, trying to figure out where all the breaks are. However, to your point, I too had to approach someone around that because I wasn't being asked, you know, whether or not I felt the job I hired into was the job that I felt was the best fit. So, so let me ask you this. So is the question leaders need to ask The employee is what?

What interests you? And in asking this, you have to take them out of the mindset of work and that there's a wrong answer. Because I, and I have a whole chapter on this in my book. When I, when I talk to leaders about this, they often say, what if no one is interested? In work that we have? And then on the flip side, they ask, what if too many people are interested in one type of work? And so I like to go through both, right? So ask people what they're interested in, because people have interests whether you ask them or not. So on the side where no one is interested in the work, that shows a hiring need. It means that you have a gap in the type of work that needs to be done at your organization, and you need someone who's interested in that work so that someone is excited and does great work for you in a role.

Right.

On the, um, side where too many people are interested, that means they're like, well, then we can't give everyone the opportunity.

Right.

Said, that's fine, but that's happening now already. You just don't know about it. Right, right. And so if you have, you know, let's call it 10 people are interested in really one type of project, that means that this time you can give it to Person A, and then you tell Person B, C, D, E, F, whatever, right? Hey, I had to give it to this, you know, team member right now because of XYZ, but I see you and I know that you're interested, and next time I got you. And the team member feels seen, they feel heard, they feel included, rather than what happens now, which is that team member sitting at their desk or at home, wherever they are, and saying, my manager does not care about me.

Yes.

My manager doesn't see me.

Right.

Maybe I should go somewhere else where they do care.

Right.

And so those, those are the, the main things. Also, both situations are incredibly unlikely. Because everyone has their own interest. No two people have the same set of interest, which is what makes humans amazing. So the chances that you've hired 10 clones are very slim, and the chances that you've hired pe— people who don't wanna do any of the work are, is incredibly slim because people applied to the job and you interviewed them and you asked them why they wanted to work there.

Yeah.

So chances are you hired smart people who do care about the work. You're just, I like to say it's not changing the role. It is often just pivoting, like, who gets what assignment within the team.

Right, right. To leverage everyone's not only passions but their skills.

Yes, exactly.

Yeah. And I think going back to what you said earlier too about you didn't realize that your volunteer work was anything special. I think too, Have you noticed that leaders don't— well, even the employee doesn't even really see how there's certain skills that they're naturally good at and/or they just love doing is very special, and therefore they don't highlight it because they're like, well, isn't everybody like this? Isn't everybody like me?

Often, right? That is like the curse of being human is that All the things that make us special, we assume we're not special, right? We assume everyone else can do it just the same. And it does often happen, right? Which is why it's so important to continually ask, but also continually pay attention. And so, you know, mySoftwareSandbox eliminates the need to continually ask, right? Because it allows employees to input their interests. So that they're not waiting for that big conversation with their manager. Okay, today's the day I'm going to tell my manager I'm really interested in this versus I'm going to, I'm going to input it into the system as soon as I realize it. And then everything can happen faster.

Right. So talking on that, so Sandboxd is your company.

Yes.

So explain, you know, explain exactly what it is and then also where they can go and get more information. Although I've had your website up, danielflores.com, but what is Sandboxd?

Yeah, so Sandboxd is a tool for organizations to use. We say, I like to say someone gets hired in and then Sandboxd happens after you're hired. And how it works is employees input what I said, their professional interests into the system, and then managers input all of the projects going on at the company. So that can be a typical project, you know, oh, we need to strategize for the launch of XYZ. But it can also be the volunteer events, the traditional employee engagement events, any groups that are in the organization, right? I was involved in a lot of women's groups, the employee resource groups. And so, and then what our software does is we show the right person for the right opportunity. So let's say that I am a leader within the organization and I have a new project that needs to get done. And I can use an example from my own company. We launched a podcast, right? And I said, okay, I need, you know, someone to help produce and edit this podcast. I assumed that I was going to have to go out and hire someone because I didn't know that anyone on my team had that skill set or that interest. But here pops up my marketing manager and I said, really? Like, I didn't know that you were interested in this. And she says, when I was 18, so when she was 18, she had a YouTube channel. And so she actually is self-taught in video and editing and she loves that stuff and she's so excited to do it. And so As a leader, if I didn't use sandbox, right, I would have overlooked my team member. I would have spent extra money to hire someone else, and my team member would have slowly disengaged because to her it would be, Danielle doesn't care about me. If Danielle cared, she would have known that I was interested in this because she knows she's interested. And we assume that other people know things about us.

Right.

Right. So I was able to engage my team member in more work that was interesting to her. I was able to save myself money from not having to hire someone else as well.

But okay, but because I'm hearing all the managers in my head right now.

Yes.

Yeah. But then if she's over here doing this, then what do I do about the work that I need her to be doing over here?

Yeah. So It all, it goes back to that question, right? Of like, what if no one is interested in the other work that they're supposed to be doing?

True.

True. So, and in the case of my marketing manager, it did not take away from her other work. Actually, every single person on my team who, cuz we, we, we do this ourselves, their productivity increased. So they had everything on their plate and they actually by having the ability to switch to something else that was interesting to them. I have all these things that are interesting. They said, you know, I'm kind of getting like, my mind is sort of getting that like fuzz of like, oh, I can't really do this right now. And I give them permission. So put it down. It's okay. Put it down. Stop working on it. Choose something else. And they would do something else. And then, you know, a day later, oh, I got both of them done. And so The problem I think that leaders often face is we say, this is what needs to get done. I need you to do this. And that's what I've hired you to do and do it right. But if we keep saying that, and it might be true, we might need to do things that we don't want to do. We often need to do things we don't want to do.

That's fine.

But if you keep making someone do work that they have no interest in over and over and over, they're gonna leave. And then the work really won't get done.

Right.

Then you have a big problem. So it's not instead of the work. It is— and I'm not saying to burn out your employees and to overwork them. The point is to assign the right work to the right team member.

Yeah.

Yeah. And then everyone works better.

Right, right. And that actually can start with the team members that exist, but also in the hiring process, right?

Absolutely. It shows the gaps.

Right, right, right. Okay. Which you mentioned earlier. So I love, like I mentioned earlier, I love your book, The Energy of Weirdos. Help everyone understand exactly what that's about, why you wrote it, and what they can take away from it.

Yeah. Thank you for asking. So The Energy of Weirdos rests on the premise that everyone is unique. Or weird in their own way. And when we understand what makes everyone weird, then we can better lead our teams. We can also increase diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging. And we can create a win-win-win for the employee, the leader, and the organization. So throughout the book, I couple interviews with, I like to say, out-of-the-box leaders, with the social science research behind people-first leadership. And the last piece of the question, why I chose to write it, is because through working on my startup Sandbox, I would speak with leaders who would say, I get what you're saying. Yeah, I get you to give people the right work. I need to care about them as individuals, people first. But at the end of the day, work is just work. People just care about money and their promotion. And you know that at the end of the day is the biggest motivator. And it's not like end of, end of sentence. Like it is just not right. And there's decades of scientific research on how to best motivate our employees. And so everything that we've been talking about in terms of interests first and understanding the people, really what it boils up to the level above it is intrinsic motivation. And so that's the underlying principles around the book. It's very Adam Grant style, Simon Sinek style, social science with some interviews, and it's a fun read.

Right. That's so cool. And it's so needed because whether you are 25 or whether you're 65 and you're still working, you would hope that for yourself, you would hope that you find the position, you find the skill, you find the initiative that really makes you excited. But at the same time, you want others to recognize that your desire to belong and to fit and to leverage your skill set and your passions and your hobbies. But you can't do that unless— would you agree? Both parties have to talk.

Absolutely. Absolutely. It's funny because we find the organizations where employees say, I need it, I need it, I need it, I need it, I need it. Need it, need it, need it because their managers are not taught to do it. Now, most managers aren't. Management training ends with, you know, okay, be aware that you have unconscious bias. Go back to work. Good luck. And so part of what Sandboxd does is we actually help hold people accountable for their unconscious bias by showing who they're putting on what opportunity so they can see if they're accidentally overlooking anyone. It also solves for DEIB because we are not choosing people for projects based on who they are or based on what they are. I should say we're choosing people for projects based on who they are because we're choosing them based on their interests and their skill sets, not that they look like us or that they happen to be in the office or that they happen to talk the most. And so there's so many factors that go into it, but it really comes down to What makes you weird? All of those fun things that make you, you. And don't assume everyone else has them too. But what we can naturally assume, because it's true, is that people overlap in certain areas of them. And when we overlap, we're able to connect, which creates community, which also increases our happiness, our sense of belonging, both at work. And then I believe also outside of work. And we can create a more joyful society as well.

Yeah. And it wouldn't that be a beautiful, beautiful thing?

Yes.

Beautiful, beautiful thing.

Yeah. I mean, to me, you know, that, that's just everything. Cause at the end of the day, right, we all exist in this world together. How can we make this world more positive, more joyful? Every little interaction. And when we're happy walking around, and I'm not saying every time, every minute, no, we have to experience the full range of emotions. But when we are less stressed, when we're less lonely, when we're more connected, we're able to bring that into every aspect of our lives. And then suddenly we don't snap at the person who happened to bump into us. We say, oh, no worries. And in my book, I go through all of the science behind that, because there's real scientific research behind why that is.

Yeah. Love it, love it, Danielle. I love the work that you're doing. I love what your company stands for and what the book is— opportunity that the leaders have out there, uh, should they pick up your book. So go to danielleboris.com, learn all about her, learn about her company, learn about Sandbox. How it can really energize your team and make your employees the happy, connected, engaged, collaborative, and productive, productive employees that they're meant to be. Danielle, thank you so much. I so appreciate it.

Thank you so much for having me on. It was so much fun to chat with you.

You as well. What a great conversation. What a powerhouse. Danielle is, Danielle Boris of SandboxD. Did you take away anything specific, unique, new, or different that you could be leveraging with your teams? I know I certainly did. First off, the whole idea of diversity, equity, and inclusion, that's been hanging out there. But I love the fact that we're now all working to focus on belonging. So DEIB is more and more top of mind to many leaders out there. And I was thrilled to hear Danielle's take on it as well and her experience with it. At the same time, her bluntness in a very sweet way in regards to just the fact that too many managers, so-called leaders out there, are really overlooking the contribution that their employees could be making day in and day out by just tapping in to the talents and skills and passions that they have that their managers have no clue about. And so she goes on to share tips as to how simple it is to ask questions and learn about your employees so you are getting the most and the best out of them. At the same time, they are feeling valued and contributing and they feel belonged. And they feel to be making a difference because someone is hearing them, listening to them, and really ensuring that they are able to maximize all of their talents, not just what the job description says. So there was a lot of tips and strategies. I'd love to hear what you took away from it. So feel free to leave us comments. So thank you for being here this week and every week, and I'll look forward to having you right back here again for another episode of Shedding the Corporate Bitch. Take care, everyone.

Bye.