How to Lead While Life Happens

What if I told you that being emotional, vulnerable, or transparent could actually be your greatest leadership advantage? In today's episode, we are diving into the heart of modern leadership, where personal boundaries blur, emotions run high, and quiet leaders are finally being heard. I'm joined by Kendra MacDonald, CEO of Canada's Ocean Supercluster. Who's not only leading national innovation, but doing it with a human-first, values-driven approach that challenges everything we think about and know when it comes to power at the top. We're gonna unpack questions like, can you lead effectively without sacrificing your personal life? Is being an emotional CEO a liability or your superpower? And why the voice of women in tech is critical right now. Whether you're a seasoned exec or emerging leader, this conversation will challenge your assumptions and call you to lead with more presence, purpose, and perspective. Let's dive in.

Welcome to Shedding the Corporate Bitch, the podcast that transforms today's managers into tomorrow's powerhouse leaders. Your host, Bernadette Boas, executive coach and author, brings you into a world where the corporate grind meets personal growth and success in each and every episode. Let's do this.

Kendra, how are you? Nice to see you.

I'm great, thanks so much. How are you?

I am doing fabulous. I am doing absolutely fabulous. I am really looking forward to this conversation, but before we do that, I like our, get our listeners and our viewers to get to know our guests as a person, as an individual. So could you tell us a little bit about Kendra?

Sure. So maybe I'll start with, I'm a traveler. I really love traveling. I've been to over 50 countries, lived, worked, and visited. So I learn a lot through travel. I'm an innovator. So I love to find new ways to do things and do that with my team as well. I'm a mom. My daughter just turned 16 and she just got her learner's permit. So I'm maybe a slightly terrified mom at the moment. Oh yeah. So that's, That's some of me.

Oh, that's fabulous. That's fabulous. And so I'm going to segue into, you have got to tell us about the business that you're the CEO of and it's Canada's Ocean Supercluster. So please help us understand what it is. And then I have a number of follow-up questions.

Yeah. So Canada's Ocean Supercluster is really focused on, so let me step back. One of the challenges with businesses is they don't necessarily sufficiently invest in innovation and in technology. And so for Canada, we have the longest coastline in the world and the fourth largest ocean territory, but a huge opportunity to grow our ocean economy. So our job as Canada's Ocean Supercluster is really to invest in technology projects, and those technology projects are tackling ocean challenges, of which there are lots of it, or taking advantage of ocean opportunities, and really focused on growing the economy and scaling globally.

Right. Well, and what fascinated me was not only that it's a company focused on the ocean, a company focused on technologies to, to, to keep the oceans thriving. But then, of course, I looked into, you know, information about the team and the board and whatnot. And I was so drawn to the fact that not only are you the CEO, but you have a very large population of females on your team, including the board of directors. So help us understand. I'm just fascinated by that. And what do— have you found that women bring to the table when it comes to just innovation, as you mentioned earlier, technology, saving the Earth, but business overall? What have you seen to be the greatest impact?

So I think that women tend to be impact-driven. Now, not to say that men are not, but I did, I did do a little bit of research to make sure I was grounded in what I was saying. And I think women tend to be attracted to impact businesses earlier. We see a lot of women in not-for-profits, of which this is a not-for-profit. I come out of an accounting firm, a large consulting firm, and they, it was predominantly men. And so it's been a very big shift to now be working with mainly women. But I think, we are a very purpose-driven organization. I think that attracts a lot of women who are interested in the future for their kids and the opportunity that we are creating.

And what is the dynamic being that it is skewed very heavy female to male where typically organizations are just the opposite? What is that dynamic like for the men, for instance?

Yeah, so I mean, I think so one of my lessons here has been I think balance is important in both directions, right? So it is really important for us to hear from our men. I think we also do a check, which is a reverse check. So I used to spend a lot of my time looking at how we recruit to make sure that we were recruiting enough women. Now we actually look at how we recruit to make sure that we are also attracting gender balance. So, you know, making sure that we're creating the right environment for all voices to be heard, whether you are predominantly female room or you are predominantly male room, is incredibly important, especially with the type of challenges that we're tackling, right? So these are big complicated things that we're facing in the ocean. It's big complicated things that we're trying to do with our very small team. So we want to make sure that everyone feels like they can be heard and contribute and bring their unique skills to the table.

The value to the organization of that is what in your mind?

So it's, you know, there's lots of studies that suggest that you get more business value with diversity of thought. So the more complicated the challenge that you're tackling, The broader the skill sets that you bring, the better the outcome that you get. And so that's really what we are looking at. So, I mean, gender is one aspect of our team, but we also look at geography, right? So we are across Canada in terms of our geography. So we have that as well as our board, as well as our team. You look at underrepresented groups as well and other ethnic diversity. So how do we make sure that we are really bringing that breadth of perspective to the, the team that we're building?

We are talking about leading while life happens. And typically that conversation is toward women because women tend to have that issue. And I, and I love the idea that you talk about blend, and I do as well, versus balance. And I want to understand that from a woman's perspective, how they go about that. But I also want to understand your observations and experience with the men finding the blend in their life when it comes to both being a leader and a male or female.

Yeah. So, I mean, if I go back to the start of my career, which is now over 30 years ago, so it's, it's a little while ago, you kept your private life private. Right. And so I remember, and that was a really big deal for me at the time. My father was sick. He died in my late 20s. So the start of my career sort of coincided with his last few years and illness. And yet at work, I didn't talk about that. I didn't talk about what was happening. And that was just sort of the way it was, which is hard to imagine now with kind of the blend that we've got between life and work. But that, that was what I had learned. And that was what I tried very hard to do. And then roll forward the clock, I decided to become a single mother. And so I decided to go both down a path of fertility and down a path of adoption. And for anyone that has gone through either of those journeys, they are certainly for me, highly emotionally charged, lots of steps, lots of appointments, lots of needles, shooting myself up with hormones, pretending that nothing was going on. And I reached the point, actually it was the adoption path that was successful, but it meant that I had to get on a plane to go to Kazakhstan to adopt my daughter. And I had to tell people, I had to tell people what was going on and again, coming from that background of, you know, if you let life get in the way, your career is going to be ruined, and who knows how people are going to react, and it's going to slow down your career path. All, all of those things, all of the great advice you get through your career. And so it was amazing. So I think two big lessons out of that. The first was people are paying attention to what your lead— what leaders are doing. So if you think that no one's paying attention to what's going on, you think that you're sneaking out and people aren't noticing, That's not the case. So that was kind of lesson number one. And with the lack of transparency as to what I was actually doing, people were filling in the blanks. So they were coming up with all kinds of reasons why I had to leave the office or I was less committed or I had something, I was going for interview. I mean, there was all kinds of explanations as to what I was doing. And then the second thing was when I actually opened up that journey was the level of support. And so it was actually the opposite of worrying about the impact on my career. It made me more human. People really connected to the journey that I was on. I ended up in Kazakhstan for 14 and a half weeks, so much, much longer than I originally intended. You know, people stepped in, stepped up, really helped and supported through that journey. And so I think for me, that was really the, What does it mean to be an authentic leader? What does it mean to bring your whole self to work? And how does that actually not only help you as a leader, it also creates the opportunity for others to be able to bring their whole self to work as well. And so that could be part of, you know, as I look at our team, COVID has really, I'd say, so this was a pre-COVID moment, but COVID has really caused a blending. We are seeing more women that are burning out. We are seeing, you know, higher rates of stress and anxiety. And so I would hope we are creating an environment that allows more of that flexibility, allows that ability to be able to bring your whole self to work and to balance or blend whatever you have. I mean, last story on that, we were going through COVID. I remember we were 3 moms and we were chatting at 4 o'clock in the morning. And on, on chat, on instant message. And my husband said like, who are you talking to? It's 4:30 in the morning. But it was the moms, right? We had to homeschool that day, so we were all having whatever business conversation we needed to have in the morning so that we could shut down in the middle of the day and deal with— my daughter was 10 or 11 at the time— deal with homeschooling and then come back online. So, you know, you do what you have to do. And the more that you've kind of shared lived experience, the more you understand that.

What would you say blending looks like in the workplace? When you say that you have to allow people to show up, what— how does that translate when it comes to the interactions, the collaboration, the strategizing, you know, just overall executing on the business? What does that look like?

So we are a remote work environment. So we have everyone working from home and that was probably more accident than intent when it started because we were relatively new. We started up in late 2018 and we didn't have space yet when 2020 rolled around and then everyone was home. And then what we realized is we were able to attract a broader talent by not having places where people had to come into work. Now the flip side of that is we are remote. And so we have to create opportunities for people to connect in person. Virtual only sort of takes you so far when you're team building. But I think that flexibility, you're not being— no one is checking where you are all day long. You have the flexibility to blend whatever the specific things are in your life that you need to be able to manage. And again, I mean, I think that, that traditionally we think of women having those responsibilities, but I have worked with lots of men that want more flexibility. I think we are seeing a different dynamic in the household between men and women. In a lot of cases than we saw before. So this gives everybody flexibility. So we really try to focus on, you know, what are the objectives? What is it that we need you to do? And we have some general work hours, or although there's 4.5-hour time difference between our East Coast and our West Coast. So there's only certain hours of the day that everyone is really online at the same time, but that gives you a lot of flexibility when you need to pick up your kids or you're doing drop-offs or you have a concert to attend or a school graduation or whatever those things are, you can really work around them without sort of feeling like someone is over your shoulder checking all the time on what you're doing.

Absolutely. As long as you get the job done, right? I'm interested to understand, you made a comment around that men even are looking for more blend in their life. Have you seen that as a result of COVID or have you seen that just from maybe the stage in one's life that they're reaching, that they are wanting and looking for those opportunities for Blend, or is it something due to the fact that the way you structured your business, it's provided them that?

So I don't think it's COVID-specific. I remember, again, this was, I don't know how many years ago it was, but we had the first male who wanted to take parental leave. And at that time, that was just such an unheard of thing. And some of my colleagues talked about him staying home and babysitting. And, you know, just there was such a surprise that that would happen. I think that has become much more normalized. We had another example of someone who, who worked, I worked with who said, you know, I can't balance my career here. I need to go. And so interestingly, this person went off and had 3 kids. And now that those kids are late teens, has come back into a different role, but really recognizing that work-life balance. And it's almost, more surprising, I think, when men do it than when women do it. And I think for the men and for the women. So I think we still, we still have a lot of work to do. I would say as we're coming out of COVID again, blending is for everyone, but I think the trend was there before. And I think the trend will continue. What you're seeing in terms of roles and responsibilities in the household are not maybe as traditional as we're used to. There's lots of different forms of family. There's single parents that have, you know, kids that are going back and forth week on week off and What does that look like? And so I think it's going to continue.

And so your advice to the lead leaders, leaders is provide programs, provide adaptability, provide an environment that allows all those different scenarios that you just illustrated to really thrive as opposed to feel as if, you know, they have to kind of make excuses or go around, you know, the norm. But make it very, very apparent.

Yeah. Allow people to bring themselves, their whole self, whatever that looks like. And so we've really challenged ourselves. It's not maternity leave, it's parental leave. You, you know, you provide more flexibility on even the terminology that you're using. And that started with me a bit too, right? Because I didn't, I didn't get pregnant, I adopted. And so even then the policies weren't quite set up for that. So how do you use How do you think about— we talk a lot about unconscious bias— how do you think about the language that you're using to make sure that you're not accidentally making someone feel bad for their situation? I'm not going to say we're perfect, but we are constantly challenging ourselves to make sure that we are creating an environment that is as welcoming and open as we possibly can so that people feel like they can. And I think that's the trend that we're on, right? There's going to be an expectation of more and more flexibility to the individual. The same thing that we're seeing with our technology and social media. People expected to be— expect to be more and more targeted. They're expecting to be more and more catered to. They're less interested in the things that are blanket. They're more interested in the things that are personalized. I think we're going to continue to see that in the workplace as well.

That's very fascinating. It's almost like, yes, meet them where they are, whether it's individually or group or a gender or a culture, whatever the case might be, and make sure that you are providing them what they need to to really be the best that they can be. I love that. Now, in this idea of blend and bringing your full self into the, into the work and into the office, remote or not, also brings up this idea that when people bring their whole self, it's all their warts, it's all their beauty marks, it's all the emotions, it's all the potential drama. And so is emotion— being emotional, is that a benefit or a hindrance to a leader in the workplace?

So that's a great question. So a couple of years ago, I was going through, as you do, some leadership development. And one of the pieces of feedback that I got was I was in a high percentile for emotion as a CEO. And I was very upset by that. Again, had grown up right in that early career of leaving your private life, leaving your emotions at home and focusing on the business. So I did a lot of reflection on that. And we are a very purpose-driven organization. We're very focused on, you know, the ocean and ocean challenges and ocean technology. And I think with purpose comes emotion, right? So if you're very passionate about what it is that you're doing, Again, I think we tend to, well, I know we tend to use a lot more emotion-related words when we're talking about women than when we talk about men. And we use them in a way that is more critical of women for bringing their emotions than necessarily when men bring their emotions because they're passionate or they're excited or they're powerfully driven, whatever those words are. And we tend to talk about women, it's their confidence, it's their, you know, they got a lot going on at home. And so Again, I had all of that going through, but I do think you get power from purpose. You get emotion from purpose. And I think that that emotion targeted in the right way. Now, what it also meant was because I do take it personally, because I am emotional, I need to be careful not to burn out, right? So there's two sides of being passionate and there's two sides of being purpose-driven. One is, You have a lot of energy, right? You're happy with what you're doing. You're highly motivated. You're incredibly engaged. The flip side of that, especially when you're dealing with a small team and a large mandate like we have, is to make sure that you're not reacting to everything and then burning yourself out.

Is it reacting to the point of burnout, or is it also reacting to where it is self-sabotaging or self-damaging? To an individual if they do take things so personally. If they, you know, those committed, passionate— I'm one of them. I've learned, but I've learned to recognize that even when someone says something derogatory or is negative or offensive, I don't take it personally. Like, I don't take it on, you know. I let it— I'm able to let it go and shed it.

It's not about me. You have to remind yourself it's not actually about me.

Is that how you would have people view it?

Yeah. I mean, I think you ask yourself, and in fact, now as, as it's really asking questions or where did that come from or why is that happening? Or, you know, did I miss something along the way? So being able to ask better questions as opposed to because my emotional reaction will likely cause your emotional reaction. And now we're in a world of emotion versus bringing it back to the right conversation that needs to be had.

Absolutely. And would you say that sometimes it's not even a conversation because that other person could just be in a bad place, just be dealing with their own stuff, and they're projecting it, you know, on, onto you, or they're taking it out on you? And so it's not even a matter of like, okay, so where did I trigger this, but even more so recognizing that it's not me. It could be that other person.

100%. It might have nothing to do with me at all. It might have to do back to all of those things in life, right? It might have had to do with an argument in the morning or somewhere you need to be or a pressure point on a school concert. Like, who knows what is actually driving that? Or just a difference in communication style. Now I find even you've used an AI agent to send me an email and you didn't ask it to put the right hello and goodbye on there. And so I'm annoyed by your style when you might not have even written it in the first place.

Oh, yes. Oh, that's— it was bad enough before AI that people wouldn't read their emails and/or they wouldn't even think to, you know, kind of consider how the other person is going to receive an email. You're, you mentioned leadership development earlier. Do you find that your, your team is obviously made up of very various styles, various personalities, various, if you do DiSCs or any type of other behavioral assessment, do you find that there is a need for a lot of training and instruction around each individual recognizing those differences so then they do know how to meet them where they are to be as effective as they can be?

Yes. So we actually do a fair amount of work to the point that someone said, okay, can we have a session where you don't talk about personalities? Because we've done DiSC, we spend a lot of time talking about personality types. We did an exercise where we put the D and the I and the S and the C, and you had to sell me a vacation and you know, you had to do it in the style where I would receive it. I am a strong D, maybe no surprise with the role that I have, but you know that I stand out. We have a lot of— we have everyone sort of all around the wheel. And so really understanding what those people need, what those people— what each of those categories of personality needs. And there's obviously nuances in there. And I think it's also, you know, really important The more stressed you are, the more likely you stay in your personality and the less likely you are to be reflective of the other person's when you're delivering your message. And I think that's part of the emotion too, right? Is if you have a heightened emotion and you're in that stress state, then you are more likely to project you as opposed to really taking the time to think about where your message is going and how it's landing.

Have you had a tip? Given to you or shared with others of how to ensure that even though in a high stress situation you are paying attention, you're slowing it down for the other person?

So one of my tips that actually came from my dad, he used to say, sleep on it for 24 hours, right? So take the time, sleep on it for 24 hours. And I think it was maybe easier to do then. I've seen my daughter who's like, mom, mom, mom, like I sent you a text 3 minutes ago and you haven't responded yet. And I get the increasingly, you know, lowercase and then it's uppercase and then it's exclamation mark. And so we're in a world where we're just in this habit of responding quickly. But my number one recommendation is take a pause, right? And slow it down. And if it's something, you know, it's that old rule too. If you've written a highly emotional email, wait till the next day or wait till later in the day. Read it again, then you are in the right part of your brain to be able to think it through and usually pull a lot of the emotion out of it. So that would be my number one recommendation.

All of this is so pertinent when it comes to leading while life happens, because life does happen. It will happen. You know, there'll be chaotic times, there'll be quiet times. What would you say and advise anyone listening or watching? What would you say the number one thing for them to do so they can continue to lead very powerfully and effectively while life is happening around them?

I would say the number one thing is to focus on purpose. So what is the problem you're trying to solve? What is the impact that you're trying to have? So I think that really becomes your North Star. And it's really focusing on that outcome and less about the path that you take too. Because I think if you're really locked into the path and then life happens and you start to get, get pushed around on that path, it is more challenging. But if you stay focused on the objective, then you can allow more flexibility in the path. And so I'd given the example of adopting my daughter. I remember when I was going through fertility, this is a personal example. Although there's lots of technology examples too, where you, fall in love with the technology and you, you lose sight of what it is that you're trying to solve. But in this case, the doctor said to me, you know, are you trying to be pregnant? Are you trying to be a mom? And that was a really good repositioning of the problem statement, right? So really staying focused on, on the problem that it is that you're trying to solve. And then I think with that purpose also gives you courage, right? So it gives you courage and it gives you power to be able to take the steps that you need to take to be able to achieve that. And to also be able to set the boundaries that you need to be able to stay again, laser-focused on that. And then the last thing I would say is, you know, don't— we need people that are in the mess. We need leaders, right? The world, the life is messy. And there's no, at least in my experience, there's no good time. I talked to my dad, I talked to my daughter. Now my mother has vascular dementia. She's in late-stage dementia. So we're, you know, we're dealing with that. So if I know there's leaders who are like, well, now's not a good time. I'm going to wait till my kids are older, or now's not a good time. I'm going to, whatever that thing is. I think we saw a lot. I think one of the powers of COVID is we saw emotional leaders. We saw people, leaders that had lots of life going on, and that actually made them more empathetic, made them easier to connect with. And I think those are the leaders that we need today. So I would say, you know, lean in, be present, and, you know, be there.

So in your whole self, as you mentioned earlier, in your whole self, you have all the messy bits.

And I think maybe the last, I said the last thing. Now the last, last thing is your own personal boundaries. So what people, where people want to be, where their lines are. I talked about, you know, again, bringing that whole self to work. What we're seeing is that people are connecting much more to the individual and less to the institution and less to the, to the company. And so Keeping your private life private is everyone's right, but there's lots that will indicate that trust increases the more that you can relate to your leader, the more that the leader is transparent, the more that you see them, the what positions they take, what their life looks like. And so again, I think there's going to be increasing pressure. So trying to make sure that you are drawing the lines where you want them, because otherwise everyone has an opinion on what you should and shouldn't be doing. And I find with social media, those opinions fly fast and furious all of the time. And that creates a lot of noise and that can create a lot of stress too. So being confident in the boundaries that you set and then being confident to protect those boundaries. And that looks different for everyone.

And that will help you lead when life happens.

Absolutely.

Kendra, this was fabulous. Thank you so much. I appreciate you being here.

Thank you. Thanks for the opportunity.

You are so welcome. I had so much fun talking to Kendra. What a spirit. I just felt her in every way, shape, or form when it came to her human-first, values-driven approach to business and to life. And one thing that really stuck out for me from what she said is the fact that you get power from purpose. Now I've heard that before, but at the same time, when she said it and in the context of which we were talking about, Leading While Life Happens, because it does, it really just kind of created a spark within me. And I wonder for you, are you leading with human-first, values-driven approach even when life is happening around you? Because it always will. And sometimes it'll be calm. Sometimes it'll be chaotic. At the same time, how you show up for your people and what it is that your people need are going to be absolutely vital in order for you to really navigate that powerhouse career that you want for yourself. So take a listen again, if you need to share it with your team members, subscribe and follow Shedding the Corporate Bitch podcast and join us each and every week. For a new episode, a new topic, and a new way for you to really become the powerhouse leader you're meant to be. I'll see you next time.

Thank you for tuning into today's episode of Shedding the Corporate Bitch. Every journey taken together is another step towards unleashing the powerhouse leader within you. Don't miss any of our weekly episodes. Subscribe to our podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you up to listen. And for those who thrive on visual content, catch us on our Shedding the Bitch YouTube channel. Want to dive deeper with Bernadette on becoming a powerhouse leader? Visit balloffirecoaching.com to learn more about how she helps professionals, HR executives, and team leaders elevate overall team performance. You've been listening to Shedding the Corporate Bitch with Bernadette Boas. Until next time, keep shedding, keep growing, and keep leading.