How Women Rise + Succeed @ Work & Life with Sohee Jun, Phd

Welcome, welcome, welcome everyone to Shedding the Corporate Bitch, um, the podcast that helps transform corporate executives into powerhouse leaders by helping them shed the challenges and overwhelm as well as the fear, insecurity, self-doubt, and negativity holding them back from creating the riches in their work and life they deserve. I'm Bernadette Boas of Ball of Fire Coaching And today our guests will answer a question many women ask themselves. How can I succeed at work and life, especially when I have children and family? My guest today is Sohee Jun, Chief Inspiration Officer and founder of SJ Consulting and a bestselling author of "Mommy Tracked: How to Take Authentic Risks and Find Success on Your Terms." Welcome to the show, Sohee.

Thank you, Bernadette Boas. Ooh, this is gonna be good.

I am very excited to talk to you. Well, and we're gonna get to your book in a minute because I think that's awesome in itself, let alone the conversation that we're gonna have, uh, about how women rise and succeed in work and life. So help our listeners and our viewers learn a little bit about you before we dive into all of that conversation.

Oh, absolutely. So I am a leadership coach to highly ambitious women and emerging leaders and specifically working with creatives. And I've been doing this work for over 20+ years, having had a lot of my work in internal and corporate of different industries, entertainment, media, startups, finance, and engineering. I've kind of done all of it in terms of industries and have had my own firm for the past 5 years. Specializing as a leadership coach and leadership development expert.

That's a best-selling author and a best-selling author of Money Pact, and we will talk about that. Where, where would you say your sweet spot is when it comes to the work that you do?

It is that intersection of women that are at the VP role. They want more, and they want to be able to own whatever their unique definition of success is unapologetically. And that has a lot to do with what you named up front, Bernadette, which is like, okay, where are we playing small? How are we under, showing up not in the ways that we want to? How do we amplify our unique strengths in whatever arena we want that to be in?

Right.

Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. So a lot of our viewers and listeners who are corporate professionals, They're going to sit there and go, wait a minute, so he— VPs, they're at that level because they are already there. They already have that confidence and so forth and so on. How bogus is that?

So, okay, you know, not too long ago I read a book by my dear friend Marshall Goldsmith called What Got You Here Won't Get You There.

Right.

And I think that that's so true about women in particular. There are certain things that will get you to a certain level. And then when you are in that sandwich role in which you have to artfully manage up and also have span of control over a lot of people and P&L responsibilities and manage a team, that takes a different skill set and one that isn't just about what you used to do. And the things that got you there, which is great. Technically, you may be a great engineer, you may be a great creative, or really good at the technical aspects of your job, right? But at that level, when you want more, it takes different skill sets and things that they haven't probably thought about in terms of, um, and especially presence too, right?

And at the same time, because the one comment that you, that you said that made me kind of react that way is the fact that it isn't, isn't just hard skills or presence, but it's also mindset. It requires an even more— if, if, if it's already evolved, it needs even a more evolved mindset. What is that what you're saying?

Yes, Bernadette, you're so great at picking that up because the coaching that I do and the underpinnings, what I, what I call the foundational work, is all about the mindset. And I call it the inner game. And I have this that I write about called The Inner Game of Leadership, which is at the end of the day, if we want to be radically authentic in our leadership and how we show up in the world for our teams and for the people above us and around us, then we have to do the sometimes hard work, but really pays off later or in the near term and later of the inner work, which is all about mindset, emotional intelligence, the extent to which you're self-aware, and then how you leverage your self-awareness to really build relationships in the workplace.

Right, right. Yeah, yeah. And doesn't it come down to, you know, I love woo-woo words like emotional intelligence, but doesn't it really come down to confidence and boldness and, you know, self-esteem? You know, I mean, yes, emotional intelligence is that self-awareness, But that self-awareness is helping you create a foundation of real confidence and boldness and belief in yourself. Is that a fair assessment?

So there's a little bit of a distinction, which is I say those are the outcomes, right? That the self-confidence and how you portray yourself and what people see, whether they— whether you appear confident to them, that's the outcome of the inner work and self-awareness.

Okay.

Without doing that piece of understanding what your triggers are, where your gaps are, how, you know, how you you want to be perceived? And is that being amplified? What's your unique strength? And how are you leveraging that? Without that awareness, the inner work, right? Emotional intelligence, self-awareness, all those catchphrases, love them. Outcome won't match.

Yeah. Yeah. And so are you often surprised that when people have big titles and they have big offices, and they have big paychecks, yet they lack heavily, you know, seriously, that self-awareness and therefore those outcomes.

Yeah, you know, I don't know if at this point in my career I'm surprised so much as it shows up in different ways. So that might be, if anything, um, the nuance piece of it where I'm like, oh, okay, this is how it's showing up for this leader or executive or, you know, manager. And it's really about how, you know, that they're not able to align their intentions in terms of how they wanna show up and how it's perceived by others. So in doing this work with leaders at all levels and in particular with creatives as well, one, I love working with creatives because it's like they don't really realize they're in a leadership role. It's like, oh yes, when you have people that you manage, you are by title a leader and, you know, all that stuff. So it's that. Helping people really get aligned in terms of their intentions and their actions. Yeah.

And define creatives for us because someone might be out there or they may know somebody out there, but they're, you know, they call them something else. How are you defining creative?

Yes. In addition to helping women, if they're in the creative space, like art directors, producers, film supervisors, animation directors, I live in Los Angeles, based in Los Angeles, so have really done a lot with the creatives, and by that I mean film, you know, media and entertainment, that space, production.

Yes. Okay, awesome. No wonder we— I kind of related to you the minute I saw you. We could talk about my film and media and entertainment piece of my world at another time, but that's awesome. And that's what I really wanted to understand is kind of what space of those creatives that you're working in.

Yeah.

So what do you find to be the greatest challenge that they are having, especially when it comes to that self-awareness, to where then they get that outcome that they're looking for?

So I think that, that, that's a big and a great question. And I think that one, we have to take a pause and realize that we're really navigating challenging times. So like, let's look big and then, and I'll get micro with you. The world that leaders are in, whether you're a female or or whatever, we have to just one, say that and recognize and put words to the fact that we've all been navigating some really challenging times. So I say that to say that leaders in general have it really hard in some ways, given the complexity and the rate in which change is happening, unlike any other time that we've been in, right? We've all collectively experienced trauma and had to navigate things in really rapid form without knowing without a North Star, kind of just making it up as we go. Having said that, in particular, those emerging leaders or the VPs, or, you know, regardless of title at that mid-tier, it's especially hard because these are the folks that sometimes don't, most of the times don't get the resources that they need to be successful, right? Having been a coach internally, all of the funds get funneled to the top of the house. They get, and they need it, not to say that they don't need that, but having been a mid-level manager at that level as well, I remember thinking, gosh, I don't know what I don't know.

Right.

So part of that is, you know, why I made a specialty in this niche is helping the, the, this type of leader really understand and get the support that they need to be the mirror for them and help them have awareness around, you know, great, you're great at your job. Here are the areas that you excel in. Here's how others perceive you based on feedback and how you can start to move the needle in intentional ways. Is that answering your question, Bernadette?

Yeah, absolutely. But I'll ask an additional one because that's what I do, right?

Of course. Thank you.

So, um, so when you say resources, that they don't— they don't— aren't often given the resources, you're, you're meaning training, uh, you know, hard, soft— hard skills, soft skills, coaching, mentoring. Those are the resources that you're talking about that the middle management often gets kind of secondhand, you know, hand-me-downs and doesn't get the resources that they need. Yeah.

And sometimes, you know, companies, it's intentional or not. But I think that that's the group that often gets overlooked, for lack of a better word, because there's a lot expected of them and just not a lot given. And I think the tides are turning in the last few years. And looking at this group in terms of their level of influence, my goodness, they are the direct line of people responsible for like really managing frontline. And that has an impact to the clients and the customers and how they feel about the interactions and the, you know, all of the things that customer relations-wise we need to think about. So it's, they have a very important role. And the reason, the other part of that is, again, I coach from lived experience and I've been in that role and I understand how nuanced and challenging it can be when you have span of, of needing to influence and not a lot of resources.

Right, right. Um, okay, so I— so two things came out of that. Yes, that maybe the tide is changing because of— and so you're going to correct me— brand equity that people are— that leaders are seeing that they have to build in their business. You know, because in order to then continue to be able to attract the people that they want. So they have to give their people the tools and the resources, in your words, in order to then get these leaders to be, you know, elevating their overall brand. And then people, they, you know, people are becoming more demanding, their employees are becoming more demanding and needing true leaders. And therefore those middle managers who are taking the brunt of everything get getting pushed down to them need to have the tools and resources to then manage that, those, you know, those employees effectively. Is that—

yeah, you know, I love that. And yes, and yes, because once, you know, I have experience with coaching someone who didn't know that there was something like this available, it kind of goes viral in that they're like, oh my gosh, there is a coach! And it's actually looked out at as a gift, right? So some companies in the past would frame it as a way of performance managing or turnarounds or whatever you want to call it. It wasn't looked at as a development gift and opportunity. And so the more that I have interactions in which people are like, oh my gosh, this is a gift. I'm helping them go from good to great, greater, then yes, bring more. And so the tides turn the more that they experience this in a way that is positive for everyone.

Right. Awesome. And what would you say is one of those key areas that you're really, um, providing coaching and support in, especially when it comes to, um, women rising up and succeeding, taking risks? Yeah, you know, talking about your— you know, even mentioning your book Mommy Tracked, you know, it's all, it's all about also getting to a point where they're taking risks. What are you seeing to be that biggest problem that you're being asked to solve for them?

It's really— oh gosh, you know, If I were to simplify it and name one or two things, it's self-trust. And we talk about this, you talk about this all the time, it's confidence. And that really is around belief in themselves, right? So go back to trust. So those two things are really linked. And at the end of the day, when they come to me, especially the woman that's super ambitious and they're like, ah, one, it takes a while to get them to own their ambition and be okay with it. Like reframing that narrative around what it means to be ambitious, owning that, and then breaking that down so that they can really own it, be authentic in their power, and then helping them to own that in the work world and ask for what they need. It takes micro actions, which I'm a firm believer in as a coach. I don't believe in boiling the ocean. Let's take it micro action at a time. And once you build success, go from there. But that takes trust and self belief. It's a cycle.

Yeah, sure, sure. It's not like all of a sudden you're learning something and you're going to gain this confidence and you're going to keep going straight. It's almost iterative, is it?

It is absolutely iterative. I love that. And it's this notion that confidence is built through action. So confidence is not built through mantras. It's not built through things that you say to yourself. I mean, those things help, right? That's all part of mindset, right? It's also really core piece of action. You got to take the action, iterate, learn from it, keep going. And that is what allows you to build the confidence. It's not sitting here just, you know, thinking about it.

Yeah, it's proving yourself right or wrong, failing fast or succeeding fast.

Yeah, yeah.

Or slow, but it— right, right, is building that confidence. Yeah.

And, you know, I love, uh, what's I share in coaching is around the reframe, reframe of failing. Failing is really just a data point. If you take the, the words out of it and kind of how we pack up failure or what it's traditionally been looked at as and reframe it as data points. Ah, okay. So that didn't work. So what about that would I change or do differently going forward? Did it work for me? What worked? If it didn't, where can I make shifts that would get me more aligned to where I want to go?

Yeah. Define micro-actions that you mentioned. Give us an example, if you will.

Yeah. So if you— so typically what overwhelms clients is when they think about any type of change, they like go big. And I know I've done this in the past, so I'm speaking from experience as well. But like, oh my God, I have to make change, right? Think of like any— anybody that wants to like make diet changes or anything like that. I'm taking a generic example. Right. But the reason why it overwhelms people and they don't take action is this: they go big in their head. It's kind of like a human tendency, a neurological, biological thing that we do. And what I know works and is more successful than going big and thinking about boiling it all into one thing is teasing it apart. So what is the— how I define it is, what is the next best action based on what you know now? Get quiet, get centered. What feels in your intuition like the next best action? And go take that step, right? Don't think about a year from now. Don't think about, you know, like, what are the 10 steps that are going to get me to my North Star vision? But okay, step back again, tap into what is your intuition telling you about the next best step based on what you know, then do that consistently over time. That is what amounts to success. Consistency over time.

Love that, love that, love that. So, you know, you're still— people are going to still have their big goals, and you probably, as your coach, as their coach, are setting those big goals. But then you're like, okay, but we have that as our target. Now let's get, like, focused right here, right now on what needs to happen next.

Exactly. That's the piece that is most often missing for people in terms of the action steps and where, um, people have shared with me as their coach, that that was the most valuable thing is not only helping them define the success that is true for them and what that looks like, but then let's actually peel that back and talk about micro actions in a way that it's achievable and doable. Right. And that's the missing link. And when you look at why people don't achieve what they want to, whether it's a career goal or writing a book or whatever that is, they're not able to break it down into really actionable pieces done consistently over time. Bernadette, I cannot say this enough, and I'm— if like anybody is hearing me, it's like that, that is the secret to success. Micro actions done consistently over time.

Love that, love that, love that. Yep, I agree, I agree. Because oftentimes, don't you find that your clients are just They're biting off so much, and then when they can't accomplish it, they get self— they start doubting themselves and they start getting insecure, and then all of a sudden that goal is gone.

Yeah, exactly. And that's natural. And it's what— forgive me, the word is escaping me, but it's kind of an anticipated challenge, right? We know that anytime people want to make change or go big, and I always advocate for go big, go big for your dreams and goals. Make it the North Star, put it out here, right? Keep that in mind, but then back up into, okay, what are the realistic action micro-actions, right, done daily and over weeks, over time, that will get you there? So let's, let's start there.

Yeah, I love that. I absolutely love that. Well, and I think it goes back to what builds self-trust and confidence is doing those micro actions, succeeding and actually accomplishing them to where I love checking off my to-do list. Like, it feels so good. Like, at the end of the day, I'm like, woohoo! I, you know, even if I only, you know, even if I only, um, accomplish one of them, I feel good about it. So it's almost like then micro action— I love that word, thank you— micro action, do it check it off, and that's slowly building that confidence within yourself.

Oh yes, it's such a good cycle to be caught up in and a good habit to build. Um, and you explained it so well. Yes.

Yeah, yeah, awesome. Love it, love it, love it. Okay, so, so from all the years that you've been doing this, yes, what would you think are the blockers You know, what are, what are those things blocking, you know, women from being successful and being able to rise up?

Mm, you know, I think we've already covered the mindset piece, but it is that, right? So barring mindset, I think it's the fear around taking and making changes. And that's a part of mindset. But what I think I see the most often is when there's fear blocking them from being really truthful about what they want and desire.

Yes.

Yeah. And then secondarily being fearful that if they get it, they might get it.

I have a fear of success. So he, I don't have a fear of failure. I don't have a fear of failing. You know, I don't see failure as a negative in any way, shape, or form. But fear of success scares me.

Do you know how often this is not taught? I mean, okay, let me put this in a different way. This is the thing that's not talked about, right?

Right.

It's true, people. And I've seen it in so many women, especially ambitious women. The, my God, what if I get it? What if I do make the C-suite? Do I belong? Do I want to be there? I do want to be there, but then will I belong? Will people see me in the the way that I want to be perceived, right? Fear, inner critic. And it's interesting because when I back up into that, there is like typically an anxious overperformer that got you there. Yeah, that's about it. We're high achieving, highly achieving, anxious people. Absolutely. And so we have these audacious goals, big goals that I advocate for all women. Do it, dream big. And then there's this huge blocker the fear. What if I get it and people find out that I'm not who I say or think or whatever it is, right? Yeah.

Or, or just what will that success mean to my life? You know, like what changes is, is it going to bring about? You know, is it going to require me to move? Is it going to be require me to, you know, be on the road and I don't get to see my family as much? Is it going to require me to you know, whatever the case might be. So that's what I fear. Yeah, I don't fear that I'm going to be doubting myself and that I am not worthy and deserving. I fear that, you know, when I do achieve what I want to achieve, that it is going to completely turn my, my world upside down. You know, so speaking of LA, I mean, one of my goals is all about my screenplays and whatnot. I don't want to move to LA. I don't want to, um, you know, do certain things or, or whatever the case might be. And so all of a sudden I'm just like, maybe I'll stick my screenplay back in the drawer, you know, and even do it. I know, I know. So anyway, but, uh, yeah, I mean, those are really great examples of just how we get in our own way.

Well, and then you shared a great example here, Bernadette, of how we go big. Oh my God, if I get it, I have to move to LA and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. That might be true. And what else is true is that we're here in this moment. So let's take a deep breath. And what, in honoring that goal and that dream, what is the next best step? Forget about all the things that could happen.

Right.

Let's ground ourselves in reality. And then what is the next best step? Because the trust comes in the actions. And then it's also a belief that that as things come up, you will be able to handle it. And so you can't uncouple the mindset work with the actions, right?

Right. Oh, I love that. Wait, wait, wait, that's huge. You can't uncouple the mindset work and the actions. Quote, quote, quote.

So, John, please quote it all over. Yes, yes.

It is. It's absolutely true. And I see it too as the fact that you're not going to take any action if you, if you have a weak mindset, if you haven't done the work, the inner, the inner work, as you call it. If you haven't done the inner work, then you're, you're not going to take the action. And, or if you take the action, it's going to be half-assed and it's not, and it's not going to be as rich as it can be. And, and, you know, kind as big as it can be in order for you to move forward. Is that your assessment?

There is nothing more— the word is, there's nothing more amplified than going all in. Like, I'm a firm believer of energy, and what you focus on is what grows and what amplifies. So if you half-ass it, you're going to get half-assed. So do yourself a favor. If you're going to go in, like, double down on yourself.

You know, I love that. Double down on yourself. I'm scribbling notes, everybody, for those watching and wondering what I'm doing.

What I, what I say to folks is, what would it look like if you 100% trusted yourself?

It's true. 100% trusted yourself. 100% trusted yourself. I, I have to think this through for a minute. 100% trusted yourself. So help me understand that. Yeah, so somebody might not trust themselves, and that's why they're— that goes back to your self-trust and confidence comments.

Yeah, yeah.

And they're not trusting themselves about what?

So about the goal, about the risk, about if they can handle it, about if— all the ifs and all the unknowns, right? And this is one of the other really big things that gets gnarly in women's heads in particular. And I speak, you know, for women because I am one. I've been there. Not to say this doesn't exist for men, but it just shows up differently, right? So with women, it's this, um, we have been conditioned. We can't ignore it, Bernadette. And I know people talk about it, but we have from a very early age to perform a certain way. And when we perform in the socially conditioned way, then we get rewarded. And so there's a lot of undoing that we have to do with the conditioning. And that takes a level of trust in yourself, working through fear, doing the mindset work. And so, you know, the mantra for me, just even as a coach, is what would it look like if I trusted myself fully?

Love that, love that, love that, love that. Um, because I'm thinking about, you know, I'm one of 12.

Oh my goodness.

Yeah. And my father was from the Depression era. Yeah. And so his whole mantra to us was, you have to work hard to play hard. And so I, you know, until I was in my 40s, late 40s, thought I had to kill myself if I wanted what I wanted. And therefore I was— I was a workaholic. I was your stereotypical Type A personality. And I got myself to the point where— and I had my first, um, my first, uh, not nervous breakdown, uh, burnout in my late 20s. And, uh, you know, and it wasn't until my one sister, my older sister, she just went, God, I'm I'm sick and tired of people saying that, for instance, she's a performer, that, you know, as artists we have to like, we have to give up everything for our craft and not want, you know, riches and success. And she's like, that's bull. She said we don't have to kill ourselves and give up everything that we have materialistically or intangibly, you know, in order to have what we want. And I— that's what I'm hearing from you when it comes to this, this aspect is we have to, we have to reframe those beliefs we've been told.

Yes.

And realize that we don't necessarily have to be killing ourselves for success.

Oh gosh, I love that story, Bernadette, because I think that people in the work that we do have probably— I'm generalizing, but more of us than not have probably experienced that type of burnout as well because we're in service of people and we want to give. And so that leads to burnout for many of us, right? Especially women, right? Especially moms. I have 3 kids and I added a dog to the mix. I don't even— that's a whole nother podcast.

But yes, it is.

I know what it looks like as well to be burnt out working, workhorse, performative, getting the accolades, feels good, feels good, feels good until my body's like, no, you can't. I burned the candle in like, if there were 4 ways, I would have burned it all. And it was a big flame. And I remember my kids were pretty young. Oh gosh, maybe 2, 4, and 6 or 2, 4, and 7, something like that, where I literally was working maybe 60 hours a week. Or more, managing a large team internally, overseeing the domestic strategy for org development and change. And then I was like, sounds like a good idea to be my daughter's soccer coach. I'll take on one more thing because, you know, let's do the balance. So, and also, by the way, I have a very allergic reaction to the word balance, and I have a different reframing on that. We could revisit that. Um, it's not what I sat on the couch one morning, my kids flanked around me as I came in from groceries. And I talk about this in the book, Mommy Tracked. As I came in from groceries, done with soccer and all the things, and I literally, my body went to sleep sitting up. Like, I didn't even know. I was just like, and the only reason why I knew that happened was like somebody, my ex-husband took a picture of me, like fully out. And that is, that for me was a sign. I was looking at myself, I'm like, funny to some, but really a turning point for me that I had to change. I wasn't showing up at all authentically in any way that I wanted to, or relishing the moments of current moments that were bringing gifts that I was missing. So it was just for me a huge sign that something had to change.

So I get Yeah, that's, uh, wow, now that's a powerful story. That's a powerful story. Speaking of which, yes, I definitely want to hear about Mommy Tracked. So your book, Mommy Tracked: How to Take Authentic Risks and Find Success on Your Own Terms— or terms-free, I'm sorry— um, and they can download a free chapter called How to Define Your Values. So I'm gonna break this in, break this in two. Yes, first off, I want to know kind of what was the, what was the motivation to write the book? And then we'll talk about this particular, because I love this particular chapter's subject, so we'll talk about that. But what really motivated you to write this book?

You know, it was really from my lived experience where one of my team members and I were having a conversation and she was like, this is what you need to write about, because we would diverge from our one-on-one topics to talking about life and kids and all of this stuff. And she was like, that's what you need to write about. I'm like, what? She really was like, hello, how do you do the mommy thing and still have ambition and still get what you do, what you want to do? And I was like, ah, again, everything that I do is from a place of lived experience because that's how I feel that I'm best in service.

Right.

And it's that, you know, I, I tried it. I tried all different things from off-tracking to on-ramping to part-timing to all the things in order to define what success looked like for me. Now, please do not misread the title. It's not just for moms. It's really about, as a woman, what do you want? If it's you want to be in the C-suite, let's go get it. Let's talk about how to get that and do it unapologetically.

Yeah, which is key.

Oh yeah, right? And if it's you want to have more creativity in your life, let's talk about that. It doesn't even have to be about changing jobs per se, but what is it that is going to be additive in a meaningful way for you to really enjoy and be integrated in your life?

Do you find women have a hard time defining for themselves what success is, what they truly want?

No, Bernadette, I love that question. And I don't know if you're asking because you know the answer too, but I say no, they don't. They don't. They don't. It's okay. So let me phrase it this way. It's they know it, they just have to own it, right?

But when you say they have to own it, are they just not willing to acknowledge it for some other reason?

Yes, because of the shoulds. Oh, but I should be doing this. Oh, but it doesn't— my who— my friends, my family, all the people that they want to socialize their decisions and get approval from and get the okay from. We're, as women, there's a part of us that's biologically wired to get communal, okay? That's what makes us great connectors, many of us.

Yeah.

And, um, part of that comes with like, Bernadette, what do you think I should do? What do you think I should do? What do you think I should do? When really they know what they want to do. It's the fear of being perceived a certain way, of what if I actually get it? That means I have to do the giant changes, going big, right? It means that I might disrupt the norm for my kids or my partner, and that would be too hard.

Okay, but they know.

So, oh, they know, they know. They get quiet and centered in their like what their intuition is telling them. And oftentimes we're so far away from our intuition, it's like, let's slow down. Yeah, let's get quiet. Let's reflect on some key questions.

And they know. And is that why they're also apologizing for it and, and not being unapologetic?

Yes. First of all, tip number one, don't apologize. There was just a side tangent to that. There's a story where there's a colleague of mine who led everything with, oh, I'm so sorry, so sorry. I said, you don't have to apologize. It's okay. Start like, take out the apology and go from there.

Right.

So, I mean, it's so ingrained in us in that way. So there's a lot of undoing.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And, and then, um, okay. So I wanted to make sure I talked about that or asked you about that. And then I definitely want to ask for your take on— you got excited when you said you have a take on balance.

I get hives when I think about the word balance. So I love to introduce a different framework rather than balance, because what balance ends up doing is leading us to burnout, right? Because the picture that most of us bring up when we think about balance is doing everything, which implies that you are trying to please people and hold it up. For the shoulds. I should be doing this. I should be a good daughter, a good employee. Should, should, should, right?

Amen.

The reframe is let's integrate our lives based on our values and our priorities. Forget the shoulds. Forget the balancing act. Look at on my website, there's a values exercise. If you haven't done that recently, what are your values? Narrow it down to top 2. 2, at most 3.

Okay.

Once you identify your values, then comes the priorities. So for example, in my life, one big value is freedom. I've decided to incorporate that in my work and the way that I work, which means that I'm a solopreneur. That doesn't have to be the case for anyone else.

Right.

That's my truth.

Right.

So then I made big decisions to be where I'm at, which means I have to forego certain other things, right? I'm not going to balance everything. I'm not going to be the corporate, you know, um, big corner office person. It's a different lifestyle for me, right? So I make decisions based on my values and integrate that into my life. And in this season, I'm not gonna, you know, I'm not gonna do everything perfectly. I'm not gonna cook all the meals because that's just, you know, something I think I should do. It's really what are my priorities. Okay, my priority is Freedom. And I want to be with my kids in the moments that matter. Those two things. Okay. That means I'll be at their, you know, open house night, but I won't be at all the things.

Right.

So making key decisions that feel aligned to your values, letting go of the rest.

Yeah. That's awesome. Well, speaking of values, I love it. Speaking of values, folks can go to your website, ZoeJunPhD.com. .com, and they can download one free chapter, which happens to be How to Define Your Values. So share with us a little bit about that.

Yes. So not only is that chapter for free, I also have the values exercise so they can do that in parallel. And I would recommend that people, you know, find a quiet space if they can for 30 minutes. I know if we're moms, it's hard to find, but to the extent that you can just clear clutter in your mind, maybe meditate or whatever beforehand, read the chapter, and then do the exercise and you might have to do it once or twice just to get really clear on what the values are. And it's going to be really concentrated work, but so worth it because then you start to define how your life is either aligned or misaligned or somewhere in between. And it's, if nothing else, awareness, right? A place of awareness.

Which is where we started, is you mentioned that it's about self-awareness, building that self-trust. And, uh, I always come back around. I always come back.

Magical! Look at that, Bernadette.

Yeah, building that self-trust and that confidence and that self-belief, um, which is fabulous. Awesome. Okay, any last tips that you have for our viewers and our listeners to really help them rise up and succeed in their work and life?

Well, goodness, I would say reach out to me, connect with me, get my book. Start there and let's have a conversation and, you know, connect with you as well. Bernadette, you are a phenomenal interviewer. I have had so much fun.

Oh, why, thank you very much. But this is about you, not about me. It's enough that it's about me all the other time.

So, you know, I, I love connecting with those that really get this message. And so I'd say reach out and I'm open to having conversations.

Yeah, that's, that's fabulous. I am so grateful to have met you and to have had this conversation. It's fat. I'm gonna actually be going out to your website and downloading those values, the free chapter and that test. And then that way, as we go to kind of, uh, market and promote this, yeah, I'll also be able to share my experiences as— and so people will reach out to you going Yes, and they will link in with you. So be sure to go to sohijohnphd.com, link in with her, and she makes it easy. Most of it is about, you know, Soji John PhD, uh, and her Instagram account. I was on it, thrilling, exciting. So, uh, be sure to check her out on Instagram as well, and her free chapter of Mommy Tracked. Pick up the book, forget about the chapter, pick up the book.

I promise it's worth it.

Yeah, it's well worth it. And again, it's not necessarily just for mommies. Nope. So be sure to just see it as a way to really build that confidence and self-belief and self-trust so you can rise up and be successful in your work and life. Thank you so much, Sohee. I so appreciate it.

Thank you, Bernadette. It's been amazing.

Yes, it's been so much fun. All right, everyone, how about that? I mean, come on. If you questioned before coming into this conversation about what you could be doing to really gain that self-confidence and self-belief, so he provided you, um, a ton of ammunition, a ton of tips and tools. Um, and of course she provided resources for you, including a chapter of her book, unless you want the whole book, and go to, um, Amazon or her website for that. Uh, but if you also have additional questions beyond what what we discussed today, then you could always reach out to me as well and even schedule some time with me. Go to coachmebernettedotcom/discoverycall and let's continue this conversation because I might be directing you right back to her. Um, and so be sure to go to soheejunphd.com, uh, to learn more about her, and also to ballafirecoaching.com. And we're going to look forward to having you right back here next Tuesday at noon Eastern time for another episode of Shedding the Corporate Bitch, our new brand focusing on those corporate professionals who are wanting to be those powerhouse leaders in their work and life. Thank you for being here, and I'll see you next week. Take care, everybody.