Leadership: Moving the Needle with Tanya Bugbee

Welcome, welcome, welcome to Shedding the Corporate Bitch, the podcast that transforms corporate executives into powerhouse leaders by shedding the challenges and overwhelm along with the fear, insecurity, self-doubt, and negativity holding you back from creating riches in your work and life. My name is Bernadette Boas of Ball of Fire Coaching. And today our guests will address a key question when it comes to leadership, since we are all indeed leaders within our work and life. So the question is, how do you do better? And what kind of leader do you want to be? My guest today is Tonya Bugbee of Tonya Bugbee Coaching and Consulting. Help me welcome her to the program. How are you, Tanya?

I am really well. Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here.

I'm excited you're here, and I love this conversation because I love anything when it comes to leadership. But before we get into all of that, help me and our listeners and viewers really learn about you and what you're all about.

Well, I've been coaching now about, gosh, 10 years. I live in San Diego. I have 2 2 amazing adult daughters. One just decided to have a baby, so I cannot believe I'm saying the word grandmother, but it's like, and what the— but she's amazing, stole my heart. Um, I've been in the corporate world. I've been a corporate trainer for Jenny Craig. I've, uh, for a boat building company. I was a purchasing agent. I've also owned my own businesses. And where my passion has landed me today is coaching.

Why?

Most of it is giving back. I remember, gosh, 20 years ago I was going through a divorce. I was a real estate agent. My income was discretionary. So it was just kind of a hobby for me. And my ex— I was living in Texas. I was in Houston. My ex went to Maine. And don't want to sit here and bash, but that's what happened and left me with two young daughters.

Oh wow.

And I remember my mother, who's in— my mother in San Francisco says, you got to come home. And my daughters, Texas was home for them at the time. You know, they're dancing and swimming and having boyfriends and girlfriends. And, you know, leaving at that time to go somewhere else was not what they wanted. And I wanted to honor and make this as easy as possible for them. So I stayed. Then probably the only time I've listened to my mom, she says, if you're going to stay there and you're going to be alone, you need a coach. And so I did. I hired a coach, got a great recommendation. My coach is my hero. I went from being at the bottom of the ladder with the real estate company to number 2.

Oh wow.

And, um, you know, I don't, I don't want to brag And this still feels great to know that I made more money than the two of us ever made together and supported my children. I didn't get child support, so it was—

there's no reason not to honor your riches, as I call them.

Okay, great. And just my coach held my hand through days where I sat on the couch and couldn't move, and then, you know, started to become a successful leader and business owner. And I give back now. I remember how I, how scared I was. And so to do that for other people just fills my heart.

Yeah. Oh, that's awesome. And yes, I think any coach will say that, you know, the give back is, is just absolutely awesome. So that's wonderful. And what a story. I mean, kudos to your mother. Yes. Your mother. Always listen to your mother. Mine's gone, so I wish I could listen to my mother. Yeah, but that's kind of— that's awesome. Now, what I'm interested to understand, based on what your mother kind of instructed you to do, what was her objective for telling you to get a coach? Was it professional? Was it personal? Was it a combination of both? What, what was she thinking about when she recommended you to get a coach?

She was being coached at that time by a real estate coaching company, and my mother was a realtor as well. So that's— she was just coming from her own experience, and she's super successful.

That's nice.

Yeah. So she was just, yep, I'm doing it, you do it.

She's setting the example for you and then having you do it. You know, there's nothing better than that. How awesome is that? And so when you say moving the needle when it comes to leadership. What are you, what are you looking to accomplish there for yourself and for your clients around moving the needle? What exactly does that mean?

Well, especially since we were, many of us, not everybody, but many of us kind of got stuck through COVID. And, and we're now on the other side, still obviously dealing with aspects of it. So moving that needle, to towards whatever would be a win, whatever our personal or professional goals are. Let's move the needle in that direction. I've just, from my own personal experience coaching through COVID, seeing so many humans get stuck.

What are they getting stuck on? Especially, especially if we can, if we want to focus on kind of the corporate professional, what are they getting stuck on? Even entrepreneurs, we can, we can throw entrepreneurs in there. Well, what were they getting stuck on?

It's very similar, getting stuck on being home all of a sudden and then have, you know, so many people having kids to homeschool and, and they're home with the pressure of their, you know, bosses, managers. Where are you? We're in a meeting. You know, what's appropriate? What's not appropriate? Can I have my kids in the background? Just so— just navigating the change that COVID provided for us. And then, you know, slowly then watching my executives slowly go back to work and then be sent home and starting all over again, right? And then trying to figure out a hybrid method, and then maybe that's not going to work. There's just still working through that, what COVID gifted us, right?

Right. I'm glad you said gifted you. Yes, because, you know, then, then let me ask you a question. So as you were coaching your clients through this period, this very challenging, difficult, you know, transformative period, did you look and communicate to them that this is a gift as opposed to many people who were going into the, you know, oh, woe is me. And therefore that's just a spiral down, you know, to the right.

Yes.

So were you focused on making sure they're looking at the wins, as you mentioned earlier, and the other things?

Yes, absolutely. The number one thing to start our day is our mindset. And we can go into the, oh, woe is me, and this is crap. And in many ways it was, right? I mean, people were dying. My dad died of COVID during COVID I'm so sorry. That was not a gift. So I don't want to sound like I'm a unicorn. However, COVID did teach us so many positive things too, that we could work from home, that we could have a life-work balance. Still, my executives are working on that life. I don't do work-life. I want life and then work. But life-work balance is still one of the major topics we coach on. But COVID was a gift for the, you know, to be able to see the LA sky, you know, because people weren't driving.

Yeah, right. Meaning that there was the smog disappeared and— right. Yeah. Yes.

Well, now we could be home and raise our kids and, and work.

Right, right.

I mean, maybe, you know, it took a while to figure it out. It wasn't, you know, none of that was a snap of the finger.

Yeah.

Uh, but many of my people who did keep that radio station to positive, right, right. Worked it out and also had this— the ones that had the support of their managers giving them the compassion and grace to figure it out. Yes. Yeah. Not everybody— that—

not everybody has that gift of the managers allowing them the space to work it out. Wow. Wow. That's, that's hard. That's rough, isn't it?

Yeah. But I do find with the executives that I coach and coached through this, learning to be compassionate, learning to be able to pivot and be flexible with times. My son-in-law is a great example. He works for a major insurance corporation and he's 100% at home. And he has the— he's so blessed with the flexibility now that they have a new baby that as long as he gets his hours in, they don't care when he does it. 6:00 in the morning, take a 3-hour break in the afternoon, come back and work till 7:00. Whatever you need, just get in your hours. And when I hear that, it makes my heart sing.

Right. Absolutely. Absolutely. And I was blessed and gifted the fact that I've worked remote since 1997.

Mm-hmm.

And so I didn't— now, I had an office while I was in corporate. I did have an office I could go to. I wasn't necessarily required to simply because we traveled so much. And so the, you know, during the 2020 to 2022 period, there wasn't an adjustment for me. And yet, I, you know, seeing what your clients went through, boy, that hits a, hits a nerve for sure. You, you just said, you just made mention about, um, helping your clients find compassion. And obviously compassion is a critical leadership skill or trait that is rarely talked about. So what is your take on that? What does that look like?

It's being flexible. It's understanding when somebody is home and they're sick and, you know, my daughter's sick and I'm home, understanding, okay, great, take the time you need. And where are we going to make it up? I'm not saying to dismiss all work responsibilities, but showing compassion for humans that aren't asking to have a sick child home from school or whatever that might be, an aging adult or COVID running through their home. So, for example, again, I'm going use my son-in-law as an example. My daughter got COVID first about a month ago. They made a trip to Boston. It was his grandfather's 90th birthday, so they took the baby, my daughter, and, and her husband went to Boston, came home about a week later, and about 3 days later my daughter got COVID first, then the baby, and then my son-in-law. And my son-in-law was supposed to go on a corporate trip to Vegas during this time. Of course, he couldn't, um, being exposed to COVID. And again, this is a wonderful example of, we understand, please don't worry about it, if we can Zoom you in, we will, take care of yourself, take care of your family. That's the compassion versus, you get your— sorry, you get your butt to Vegas, right? Right. Kind of thing. Or having there be some repercussions around not being there, which people experience that.

Yeah, sure. And what, what is the, what is the effect on your client when they don't— when they're trying to, you know, kind of practice compassion for themselves and for others, yet they have a boss that isn't, you know, compassionate and just, you know, wants them to get the job done? So they're lacking that leadership style, that leadership trait, what is the effect on that individual, in this case, your client? And what do they do? How do you help them work through that?

Well, internally, there's stress and anxiety. So they're not their best at home or at work, because they are so stressed and anxious that they're getting either a bad review or a talking to. Is just not a happy human. So certainly not providing the best outcome as far as their workability. And again, coaching is confidential.

They'll—

even if their corporation is paying for their coaching, they're looking for another job. And because it's confidential, doesn't matter who's paying for it, right? I hold that confidentially— confidentiality with strict honor. And they'll say, Tanya, I need another job. This is just not the place for me after they start. And I'm— and I don't tell them to leave. It's right. But being just okay or being in a constant state of stress is not okay.

No. Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. And but it is part of your work though to also guide and coach them to try work to handle that with their boss so they don't get to that point. And it comes to a point where it's just nothing's working.

Yes. So first, working on the stress and anxiety on themselves. So I call it having an emotional regulation plan. Do we need to go for a walk? Do we need to take a little extra lunch or just go sit in— if they're home, for me, it's always take a walk around the block with my dog. Always settles me down before I have a conversation that I know that needs to be had. So I always work on a plan. We going to regulate it? Breathe, and then go have that conversation and see what we can do. Obviously, quitting is not the first answer ever. So having a conversation with— this is what's happening in my life, you know, I want to work with you on, you know, making sure that I provide the best possible, you know, work outcome, hit my deadlines, hit— make sure I provide great meetings, and I need to work around some of these things around my home. I'd like the grace to have that space, and it happens or it doesn't. And sometimes it's multiple conversations, but at some point my client will say it's not working, right?

Right. They— yes, yes, it comes to that point. Sadly, exactly. Yes, if it comes to that point. What would you say is the number one challenge leaders are having entrepreneurially or corporately right now? And kind of how do they move that needle?

Well, the economy, number one. So I'm coaching people, you know, some humans in the corporate world where one, yet last week, 20% of her direct reports were laid off. So they're dealing with the fear. They're dealing with having to have those crucial conversations. With people and letting— laying them off. So that is huge right now across the board in the corporate world is fear and then overworking to hopefully save their jobs.

Right, right.

So overdelivering. Again, I love to exceed expectations. I'm all about exceeding expectations. But there's like, again, that needle where, okay, I'm going to exceed expectations. And then you kind of go into that dark side of I'm waking up at 4 in the morning, I'm not sleeping. Right. I call it the dark side because I'm a Star Wars fan. So there is the dark side of overdelivering and again, overworrying.

Right.

And finding that balance.

And are they the individuals that are not being laid off and therefore they're overcompensating in order to feel as if they can protect themselves and keep themselves safe?

Yeah. I mean, for example, I have one gal said, my job is safe. I'm not going to get laid off. I know I'm safe. We've already been talked to. And about a month later, I get an SOS call and I take SOS calls from my clients and I call her back. She got laid off.

Yeah. Yeah.

No, just was not expecting it. And that, you know, that was in the medical field. So, right. That's big right now.

Yeah. Because of the economy's driving layoffs.

Yeah.

And the layoffs are driving the fear in the people obviously getting laid off because now they don't have any income. But also the people left behind or who still have a job because now they fear that they have to overwork and overdeliver in order to protect themselves. But there is no guarantee of that either, right?

Yeah, right. And then there's survivor guilt and— or the having to make those— like with my one gal who had to call 10 people and give them the news, that's, that's emotionally draining, right?

Right.

Yeah.

All right, so I love that, survivor guilt. But I want to break it into two people or two things. Hold on a minute. I'm going to— I'm jotting something down before I forget it. So I was definitely one who suffered with survivor guilt many years ago in my late, late 20s. I happened to kind of ask for a transfer from one company in Florida to the sister company in Atlanta. And unbeknownst to me, there was a lot of rumors for like 10 years that the two of them would eventually merge, but it literally was going on for like 10 or 12 years. So I come up and 3 months later, very similar, on my birthday, they announced that we are indeed merging and I was going to be responsible for the merger and then laying off all of those people that were left behind.

Yeah.

And they too didn't use the word survivor. Survivor guilt or whatever, but they, you know, they, they were angry and bitter and, you know, I mean, venom was coming out of their, their, you know, cells when I went back and I had to get them to help me and then only to lay them off. So survivor guilt is very palpable, um, and I haven't heard of, you know, heard it about it in a long time, so I'm, I'm intrigued of What are your clients going through when it comes to survivor guilt, and how are their leaders helping them with that? Or are they even recognizing it? Because I'll be honest with you, after that situation, I never heard— and I've been through multiple layoffs while I was in corporate— I never heard a leader focusing on that for their people.

Mm-hmm.

I know that was a lot, but it was a lot.

So, so, so, so there's two examples. So I'm just currently coaching two people going through this, two different scenarios where one company, her leaders aren't being supportive. So she said, I'd like to lay them off on a Monday. I don't want to lay them off on a Friday. And I could be remembering the dates wrong, but it was like, this is— I feel like having them live through the weekend, not being able to call me or reach out. I'd rather wait till Monday so that I can provide resources and be there. And so she— that was her train of thought. Right, and more detail than that. And her manager's like, no, you're going to do it the way I tell you to do it. You're doing it on a Friday at 4 o'clock. And then, you know, you disappear till Monday kind of thing. She did it, but was in tears telling me about it the following week. You know, she just felt, having gone through this before, that, you know, she had very clear goals and way she thought it was most compassionate. And I was, you know, so proud of her compassion during this that she felt this would be more compassionate, right? Because then there'd be HR and resources that they could reach out to. They were going to have questions about severance. But on a Friday at 4, they're not going to get any answers till Monday. So I'm now remembering the conversation better, right? So she, you know, so she felt so proud of her as being a leader that she was thinking about them and what they needed. That's a leader.

Amen. Amen to that. Amen to that.

And her leader was not supportive of that, and that's not how it happened.

Right. And that hurts, especially as a coach.

Right.

That hurts. You almost want to go, hey, I need to coach you.

That's right.

Yeah.

Can I please coach your manager?

Right.

Yeah.

Yes.

Yeah. And then the other situation was a gentleman and he had all the support and everybody, they all got together on Zoom because they are, a lot of them away, some of them not. And it was a very, we're sorry, but we're here for you. Corporate's already on the line waiting for you. Or HR, they can tell you you're—

they—

I mean, it was just such a night and day situation where he really— obviously he felt guilty and he felt bad, but he, they— he was a very much a part of helping them get through it versus this is the news and, you know, I'm turning off my computer.

What do you think was the motivation of that first scenario's boss who would not allow her Like, why did he or she feel strongly that it had to be done Friday afternoon at 4 o'clock?

It's the way it's always been done. So again, that's— it's like what I say about coaching when I coach my clients. Coaching is not a one-size-fits-all. And I learn every day and every coach call how to do it better. But no two clients are the same in what they need.

Right.

So a corporation, that doesn't want to move. I call it the Titanic, right? It's just like, it's not going to budge. They're not— they don't have loyalty. They have unhappy employees. And this is just like, this is the way we've always done it. This is the way we're going to do it. And we're not open to looking at something different. And that's not leadership when you're not open to other perspectives.

Right. Would you also say though, to get down to that individual versus the company? Because a lot of people can blame, well, it's company policy, right?

Yep.

Do you also look at even the fact that, well, that individual isn't even brave enough and have the courage? And we all know, you know, even Brené Brown says, dare to leave, right?

Right.

And so do you also look at it and, you know, maybe even help the individual to understand that that person may not have the courage to break from tradition and do it, do it a different way?

Yes, 100%. And that person probably has a manager. Maybe it's the vice president or something who's like, no, this is what we've always done it. I'm busy and we're not changing it right now.

Right.

So I'm not putting all the blame on every step of the ladder. Eventually the buck has to stop somewhere.

Right.

So yes to your response, the courage isn't there, but it could have been that person might have gone up the ladder and said, hey, we'd like to honor the way, quote, not staying the real name, but the way Susie wants to do it, right? Um, and could have gotten a flat no too, and then has to support that decision. And so I don't know. Yeah, you know, I don't know the full scenario.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, I ruffled a lot of feathers while I was in corporate, so I'm running through my head exactly how I would have handled it, and I would have like screw the person above me, right? The way I want to do it, I'm doing it. But I appreciate your, your clients need to, you know, follow protocol, you know, follow protocol and direction.

I mean, it's very hard decision.

Yeah, it's a very hard thing. So beyond, um, layoffs, um, and the economy, fear— how do you see fear showing up in leadership and the effect that it has on whether or not someone's successful in moving the needle or not?

Oh gosh, that's a loaded question. There are so many places I see fear showing up. Something as simple— and it's not simple for some people, so I don't want to step on anybody's toes— but something like delegating. It's not going to get done right or it's not going to get done on time and the buck stops with me. And so then I'm the one that's going to have to talk to my manager about it not getting done right. Delegating is huge. So fear shows up in so many ways. Yeah.

Now, wouldn't you say those scenarios you just painted really comes down to trust? Do you find that there's not a lot of trust in the leaders that are— well, let's— I don't even like to call them leaders when they're not necessarily performing. Yeah. So would you say that fear's generated a great deal from a lack of trust? That one has in themselves and others?

Typically their manager, right? So for me, trust is that you're good at what you do and you care about me. And most, most everybody I coach, they're really good at what they do. They feel their managers are good at what they do. But where the ball gets dropped is the care, the compassion, and the grace. So for me, trust is, yeah, I want you to be good at what you do. You know, Daddy didn't get you the position kind of thing, right? And then you care about me.

Right.

And if they don't feel the care is there, then, yeah, the trust isn't really built.

Why is there such a lack of caring and compassion when we are humans?

Right. That's the old school way.

Yeah, you're right.

It is. And I don't want to be gender specific, but it is the old school way. So when I coach, and it's not all the way across the board, but when I coach folks, that are in older, well-established, been here forever corporations, to change that needle or to pivot the Titanic is painful. When I coach people in newer corporations, the compassion's there.

Right, right. Because it's instilled from the get-go.

Yeah. That's part of their mission statement is to care about their employees. Kind of thing.

Yeah.

And I don't want to say it's black and white, right? It's not.

Right. Right.

It is what was learned in whatever, the '50s, the '60s. You come to work, you wear your tie, you don't talk about yourself. We don't know if you're married or how many kids. You just come to work, do your job, go home.

Right.

And that's not the way it is anymore.

Right. No, it's true. It's very— you know, I always say that, you know, the old school was— we're robots. Yeah, the new school is what you've used the term multiple times—

human, right?

You know, and, and my father— I'll never forget, um, my father, who's been passed for quite a while now, but— and he was probably in his early 80s when I asked him this question, and it was really more about gender equality and equity in the workplace. And I said, when, Dad, do you— and my father had 6 girls. He had 6 boys, but he had 6 girls. And, and even though he was from the, the Depression era, you know, very male chauvinistic, very, you know, um, he still expected his girls to go out and like conquer the world and not let anything hold him back. So I said, Dad, when is it ever going to change? When is this needle— in your, your words— when is this needle ever going to move? And he's like, Bernadette, you need all the, the— and excuse the, the not so politically correct, but he said until all the white-haired old men are dead and die, you know, and gone. And, um, and but yet it's still kind of trickling down into some of the— and I think you're right, it's more the legacy of the organization more so than even the people within the organization. Is that what you're finding?

Yes. And that's when I say COVID was a gift, because the corporations that are finding that it— that we can trust our people to work from home and do a great job, maybe even a better job, are moving the needle. And the ones— oh, because let me give you an example, because this one really resonates with me, and I promise I won't cry, but I want to when I say it. So I was working for a corporate coaching company, uh, the first year of COVID and I had my own coaching company. Now I have 100% my own coaching company, but I was coaching for a coaching company, and, um, they sent us all home, right? And That was great. It wasn't hard. They thought it was going to be. But right when we first got the governor of California said you could go back to work, I remember getting on a Zoom call with the CEO and there was about 223 employees on the Zoom call. And we had a lot of questions and a lot of people were like, well, do we have to come back? And what's that going to look like? And They needed compassion. And I remember the CEO stood up straight and said, we have back-to-work orders. And back-to-work orders means come back to work. And if you're not here on Monday, you don't have a job.

Wow.

And I'm not one who ever quits anything, but I quit. Like, I am. This is not okay.

Right. Good for you. Good for you.

Okay. And so when I had my HR exit interview, this is, this is not okay. There's no grace. There's no compassion. There's no, let's answer your questions. Period. And obviously, 2 weeks later, the governor is now sending everybody home again, right?

Well, you did the right thing. You know that, right?

I know that it's the best decision I ever made. But that is, again, that's the Titanic not moving.

Yeah. Have you looked at them since, and have they made a change of any kind? Have they moved the needle at all in the last 2 and a half, 3 years?

Yes, they have. And yes, they have. Yes. Slowly, just recently, because when I left, about 10, 12, 11 other coaches left. It was, it was, you know, they had 72 coaches and they lost 11, 12 the first month after that. Other reasons too. It wasn't just that one reason, but that was the straw for me.

Right.

Oh, sure.

Absolutely.

There was a lot of other things. Another thing that they were, and not just this corporation, is that you can, you're remote and you're only allowed to work from your home office. So when my mom was having knee surgery, I could not go to my mom's house and coach from her home and take care of her in between coach calls. I mean, I don't coach 8 hours straight, right? There's breaks between coach calls. I average about 4 or 5 a day and there's breaks so I can help my mom and get her through this. And I was, I was told you can take PTO time, but no, you can't work from anywhere but your home office. Now I know that rule has changed.

Because that's probably the bigger straw, right, for them, right, that followed you leaving because of the initial straw, right? Yeah, yeah, I mean, yeah. So it is, to your words, gifts that, um, that compassion and empathy and kindness are being instilled in businesses as a result of the gift that we've been given for the last 3 years.

And imagine the loyalty that people, humans have towards their managers and their corporation when they're receiving this and doing a great job on top of it. It's not like they're doing half the work, right?

They're not, right? Absolutely. Several years before, um, I was exited, uh, from the company, uh, my father was passing in hospice, and so I flew home immediately and to care. And I was gonna— I landed up being the major caregiver because even though I have 11 brothers and sisters, they all were outside the house, they had families, they had kids. I was able to travel and work anywhere. And so I agreed, yes, I'm the perfect person. And so I would like log on to different calls, and it was beautiful because my boss/mentor that I mentioned, um, he'd be like off the phone right now. He goes, your father needs you. Your mother needs you. He says, we don't— we need you and we need you to kind of pay attention every once in a while to emails. But we don't need you taking time away from what you're there to do. And you're right, loyalty, that kind of like just instilled such a loyalty in me that didn't necessarily work out in the long run.

Right.

Yeah, but that's a whole different story. Right. So, uh, you talk about— and I loved seeing it and reading it on your website, uh, and let me go back there so people know, ton— um, tonyabugbee.com. We talk about superpowers.

Oh yes.

Uh, so share with us, what are your superpowers? And but what are superpowers to those listening and watching, and how can they tap into them?

Everybody knows. I, I know everybody knows, so I'm gonna put you on the spot. What's one of yours?

One of my superpowers? Yeah, one of my superpowers is, uh, asking really good questions.

There you go. Yep, yeah, yeah. Uh, some of my superpowers is I'm super competitive. I want to win. I've always been competitive, so I somehow transpose that to my clients, right? We are going to do this together. We are going to win. We're going to get there. Uh, I have to learn not to push so hard a little bit. So again, any superpower can go to the dark side, right? Because everybody has their speed. I have to honor, honor the tortoise and the hare. And we know who won. So again, so I'm very conscious that my superpower can soon be kryptonite if I'm not careful. Everybody has a superpower. I've got clients whose superpower— in fact, I was talking to her this morning about it— is her giving heart. Now, again, that can go to a dark side if you're giving too much. Right. And that's a huge thing we talk about in the corporate world is how saying yes and how many times do we say yes when it needs to be a no. However, you know, she's in the corporate world and her superpower is her giving heart and her competitiveness.

Right.

You know, so everybody has superpowers and we, I want to make sure that I'm being conscious of the kryptonite that might sneak in.

Yeah. And So my lead-up question to that would be, because in corporate I certainly used my inquisitiveness, my curiosity, and then asking a lot of questions. And yet I didn't necessarily recognize it at all until actually like 2010, 2011. I started my podcast, I started asking questions, right? And even with my clients, they're always like, you pick up on one little word and you have like 5 questions as a result of it. And then to your point, dark side is stop asking me so many questions. But, but, but I didn't recognize that in myself for 20, 25 years. So how do you, what do you do to work with your clients so they actually do take a breath, take time, and really focus on what their superpowers are?

It's exactly what you said, asking great questions. And typically what I do is ask them to tell me a story. So I love stories. Right. And so tell me a story, what, when you were most proud of, or tell me a story that you accomplished something that nobody thought you could do. And they'll tell me their stories and I listen. And if it's around giving or competitiveness or organization or whatever it is, I can pick up on their superpowers. Or I say, go home and don't ask your spouse or your significant other. I want you to go ask your best friend, you know, and, and you can't ask a significant other, uh, they're more powerful when it comes from a friend. What do you see my superpowers? And, and accept it, what they say.

Why is that? Why is it better for a friend than kind of a lover or partner or somebody at home?

Because they're really good at the kryptonite. And it depends on the relation— it depends on the relationship. And I don't know yet how, how close they are, how connected they are. So if they're on the rocks, It might not be a good one.

No, no, no. I love that. I love that. Yeah.

Humans, we're really good at knowing what our flaws are.

Right, right.

And we're not great at patting ourselves on our back with our superpowers. It's not bragging. It's— and I coach— and the way I coach them, and I'm sure you do too, is leaning into those strengths.

Absolutely.

Right.

Absolutely. And I think what you're also pointing out too, though, is not only do we kind of initially think of our flaws versus our strengths, right? Other people are happy if you ask a question like that and then all of a sudden be invited to point out everything that, you know, that is wrong with you.

Don't do that.

Right, right.

No.

So is it, is it that they just need to find someone that they truly trust and have confidence that they're, they're looking for the best of that person? And those are the people they should be asking, whether it is a family member or a best friend.

Right. Yes. Yeah. And, and, and for a lot of people to hear compliments is uncomfortable. Yeah. Right. Makes us squirrely kind of thing. Right. So accept it, write it down, and then we can talk about it. Yeah.

Love that.

But they leak the stories. They leak it through their stories.

Yeah. I love they leak it through their stories. I love that because they do. They leak it through their story. Yeah, yeah, I love that. Um, so apart from fear that we've talked about and all this that's going on with, um, you know, as a result of post-COVID, what are you most excited about and optimistic about when it comes to moving the needle with leadership, whether it is corporate or entrepreneur, um, as you move forward, both for yourself and for your clients?

Okay. Okay. So I'll do the easy one. For my clients is helping them get those promotions. There's nothing more fulfilling when I get a text, Tanya, I got it. I got the promotion, right? And then we celebrate. And I see the needle moving in that direction when they're working on their leadership skills, whatever. I can list off 21 leadership attributes and when, but when they're working on them and being intentional with it, and then their managers see it happening, right, they're getting their promotion. So I'm so hopeful for that to start again. I know it was kind of like a freeze on a lot of that through COVID and some fear about, again, who's— what's going to happen to our workspace. So I'm seeing promotions happen again, and it is super exciting. And I love that corporations are getting their clients their employees, sorry, into coaching and working on their leadership skills. And I wish a lot of those managers and VPs would get into coaching as well. Yeah, because they're a big part of it.

Right.

For myself, this is my first year being a business owner on my own. No corporate backup jobs. So I want to double my business next year. And I'm not saying this because I'm a coach. I'm saying this because I was coached. I truly believe everybody benefits from having a coach. My kids. It doesn't need to be all the time. You know, my, my children, they're 24 and 26, and they've had coaches, not their moms. Moms can't coach their daughters, you know, that, that doesn't work. So I've connected them with, you know, younger women, and they love the time they've spent with their coach. Yeah. So just getting coaching out into the world. Yeah. Yeah.

And, and have you seen, as a result of COVID um, from both a personal mindset, mental health empowerment, but also from a leadership growth and development. Have you seen coaching taking off, um, in, you know, in the businesses and the, you know, the networks that you're connecting in with?

Yes, they're absolutely— yes, and, and therapy too, because I am not a therapist, I am not a mental health specialist. So when I feel or sense somebody would benefit from a therapist, I'm seeing corporations provide that as well.

Yeah. Oh, isn't that awesome? Yeah, isn't that—

and if not, then they'll, you know, please go see a therapist, that's not my training, right?

Right, right, right, right. And, and a therapist and a coach can reside together in an individual's business and life growth, right? Um, because they're— they are two different skill sets and they're two different areas of expertise, um, that actually can complement each other should someone really need that added therapist-specific—

Absolutely. I coach, coach humans that are seeing a therapist and seeing me, and I don't talk to the therapist, the therapist doesn't talk to me, right? Um, we don't, right? Uh, but especially if there's any kind of childhood or any kind of past trauma, that's therapy. And I'm really good at getting people to move the needle and move forward. But if there's something in the past they need to deal with to move that needle forward, then having both is totally appropriate. Yeah.

And I think that's really important for everyone to understand, that if someone like, um, Tanya kind of recognizes that you need more than what she can offer, you should be like hugging her for acknowledging that and promoting and reporting that. Because sadly, I don't know about you, Tanya, but I have experienced coaches that have crossed the line, I'll call it.

Sure.

You know, they may be life coaches. Like, I don't consider myself a life coach. I consider myself a business and executive coach, of which we have life that we deal with. Exactly.

Me too.

And I'm sure you do the same.

Yep, yep.

But I found, you know, that there's some, you know, coaches that will cross the line into therapy that they really have absolutely no right to be. And it's only because they don't want to, you know, potentially risk that client and risk losing that opportunity. So, yeah. So for everyone listening and watching, kudos if you should be working with and/or in the future you're going to work with Tanya. And, and she provides other resources beyond herself to help you in your, in your path. So what, what are some last tips or pieces of advice beyond all the ones you've already given that you would share with our professionals that are listening or watching?

Gosh. So one tip, it's my favorite for myself. I learned it through my coach, is making sure the radio station in our mindset— and I call it a radio station. We can have FM 100 saboteur crappy voices. Or we can wake up with FM 300, I'm a leader, Wonder Woman, Superman voices. And but we don't always wake up with FM 300, I got this, right? We do, even myself, I'm sure you do too. We wake up and something just happened, right? And we're not quite so motivated, inspired, and the woe is me channel might be present. So my biggest tip is making sure that the radio station is tuned in. So whatever— and again, coaching is not a one-size-fits-all. So finding your own method, if it's listening to a podcast, if it's exercising, if it's affirmations, journaling, but recognizing where our radio station is tuned into. And if it's not that FM 300, then what's the plan to get there so that we do have a great day and move the needle?

Yeah, love it, love it, love it. And it's so easy to remember that because I'm visualizing a radio station.

Yes, I got it. Or maybe you— and maybe it is a day where we sit on the couch and eat ice cream. I don't know, but it can't happen 7 days in a row, right? Right. So we're all allowed to have a bad day. I'm not saying that. So it could be, yep, it's going to be an FM 100 day. Okay, but all right. Yeah, you know, that could be for many reasons. You know, we need to rest. We haven't rested in a long time.

Yeah.

But for the most part, we want that strong radio station, that inner leader to be there.

Yeah.

Yeah. My inner— I'm all about Wonder Woman. So it's my inner Wonder Woman needs to be there every morning, you know, or at least most mornings. It's not always like I don't want to not be authentic.

Yeah. Right, right. Absolutely. And with those superpowers, woohoo!

Yeah, the sky's the limit.

Absolutely. Absolutely. Tanya, this has been fabulous. Thank you so much.

I really appreciate it. I love— as you can see, I'm passionate about what I do, as you are. And so the more we can get it out there, the better.

Yeah, that's awesome. And everybody, please go to tanyabugbee.com, learn all about her, how she could support you, how she can help you. And also follow her on Facebook, just look for Tanya Bugbee. Um, her URL is going to include .94. But all you have to do is look for her face.

Yeah, but I'm on LinkedIn too. So for executives and managers, that's, that's a big spot too. So I'm on LinkedIn too.

Yeah, that's true. So please hook into her and let her help you move the leadership needle. Thank you so much. I appreciate that.

Thank you.

And for everyone else, thank you so much for joining us today. Should you have any questions outside of this topic that may touch on it but go way beyond that and you just want to bounce off ideas or questions, and you're challenged with something that maybe we didn't talk about today, but you all of a sudden got kind of triggered into having, um, kind of that idea or stress pop up for you, then please reach out to me, and even you can schedule some time with me and let's talk about it. And I might just be sending it to Tanya, but at the same time, if it's beyond our conversation in regards to moving the needle around leadership, then please don't hesitate. Get the support that you need, as our guests and I have been kind of touting throughout the episode. And for everyone else, and for all of you, have a rich, prosperous week, and I'll look forward to having you right back here. I'll see everyone at another time. Take care, everybody.