🚀 Leadership Skills That Actually Close the Execution Gap | Stop Managing the Machine (Part 2 of 2)

Welcome back to Shading the Corporate Bitch. I'm Bernadette Boas, and if you caught part 1 of my conversation with Norman Wolfe last week, you already know why I could not let this episode end in one sitting. If you're just joining us, here's a quick version. Norman is the creator of the Living Organization Framework, a revolutionary approach to leadership that says your organization isn't a machine to be optimized.. It's a living being to be nurtured. And the leaders who understand that, they're the ones closing the execution gap and actually getting results. In part 1, we talked about where all this started, the difference between a machine paradigm and a living organization, the concept of maturity in your people, and why strategy execution fails the majority of the time. If you haven't listened to it yet, go back. It's worth every minute. But today in part 2, we are getting into the good stuff, the 4 specific skills that Norman teaches leaders to make this framework real inside their organizations. We're talking about heart-centering communications, storytelling and rituals to reframe your culture, an improv mindset for navigating uncertainty, and lastly, the balancing of opposites. These are not Soft Skills. These are the missing skills you need to be a powerhouse leader. Norman also has a book, The Living Organization, which is available free at thelivingorganization.com/book1. His second book, Leading a Living Organization, will be out later this year. So links will be available in the show notes as to how you can stay in touch with Norman to understand when that release will be. Now let's get into part 2.

Welcome to Shedding the Corporate Bitch, the podcast that transforms today's managers into tomorrow's powerhouse leaders. Your host, Bernadette Boas, executive coach and author, brings you into a world where the corporate grind meets personal growth and success in each and every episode. Let's do this.

Norman, good to talk to you again, or continue.

Bernadette, thank you for having me a second time. I really appreciate that, and I loved our first conversation. It was wonderful.

And this discussion I just was finding to be so meaty and so important for our listeners and viewers who are leaders and HR leaders who have great influence.

Yes.

And how they can change the dynamic of how leaders are going about really developing their people, but more so closing the execution gap, as we started talking about. So we left off with the fact that leaders have a choice of getting uncomfortable in regards to making this change from one mindset that which is based around machines and systems and whatnot to more of the living, breathing people side of leadership. And I would love to have you really dig into with us your Living Organization Framework. The 4 parts of that. And then I wanted to touch on, you also talk about skills that leaders in this framework really need to focus on in order to really leverage and expand their abilities and capacities. So could you touch on the Living Organization framework for us?

Sure. I think, as I said in the last episode, the Living Organization was designed to really address the leader's number 1 responsibility, which is to create the outcomes necessary for sustained growth, however you define that. So I step back and I, as I mentioned in the last episode, I step back and look at what is the organization, what is creating results. And what I realized is if there's a, if I think about the organization as a machine, which is what I consider the current paradigm, then what I'm dominantly concerned about is how the activity flows through the machine. Basically process improvement, process optimization. How can I get more inputs into outputs as efficiently as possible? So that's primarily what we would consider activity-based. But when I step back and I look at what an organization really is, it's much more complex than just our activity. And it has to do with thinking of the organization as a person. We begin to realize that it's— people are not only they not only create results by what they do, their activity, but the relationships, the dynamics of those relationships have a big impact on the activity they do. And so activity and relationships become important elements of it. And then the third element, which is, I referred to last time a couple of times in the last episode, is what we call the context. The underlying driving operating system that causes me to interact with people the way they do, causes me to respond to opportunities or events the way I do. So if I'm a leader of an organization and I'm just managing the activity, I'm actually ignoring two very important dynamic forces, if you want to think about them that way, relationship and context. So that was the first element of the Living Organization framework, to recognize that people create not just by activity alone, but by activity relationship and context. And then the question became is, okay, how do I deal with that as a leader? What do I need to do? Relationships is all about, from an organizational point of view, the way to look at about it is in the machine paradigm, we think of relationships from a transactional point of view. And that all over the place. I wanna optimize the transaction. I create a CRM system so I can optimize the transaction. I create an interactive voice response system so that I can optimize the transactions of people calling for support and so forth. If you think of it though, as a living person or even a living system, you begin to see it as a series of interactions in an ecosystem which acknowledges and makes visible the dependence between each of the living entities in the ecosystem. So it changes the nature of the interaction and it brings us much closer to what a lot of companies are trying to achieve. You can call it customer and supplier experience because you're wor— you know, when you think about relationships, you want to enhance the experience of the relationship. So that becomes a natural piece. The other element is this notion of context. And we talked last time about maturity and how important maturity is and how important choice is. If you put all those elements together, what you really recognize is if you just think about optimizing activity, you get a certain level of energy input. But if you optimize activity relationship in context, if you give people the choice, like we talked about, if you give people the— they become more engaged. And when they're more engaged, they're producing more energy. So if you think about how much energy I'm putting through the system, optimizing activity only gives you a small fraction. If you add to that relationship and context, it becomes a huge amount of energy that's transforming inputs to outputs. So it all started with this idea of how do I help leaders execute better or achieve their number one responsibility? And the framework, the elements of the framework that I just identified become much more visible. They become almost obvious. Of course, I got to worry about those things.

Right.

Which led me to the next question I think you wanted to get to is, okay, so what skills do they need?

Because I found the 4 skills that you listed extremely fascinating, which I'm gonna just share them very quickly and then you can dig into them. But the 4 skills is wisdom of the heart, storytelling and rituals, improv mindsets, and then balancing opposites. So I definitely want you to touch on each one of those, and I really want our viewers and listeners to take note because I do think that this will give you a whole different appreciation for what successful leaders possess.

Again, I'm going to keep referring back to the living organization versus the machine and back and forth because it, it comes to— it comes from answering the question, how do I help leaders make this transition that we talked about? They're going to make that choice we talked about at the end of the last episode. How can I help them? The first skill I came up with, and what I consider the foundational skill, is when you're dealing with people, they're not logical and rational. They're not like a machine. You don't design them. Believe me, I tried with previous, previous marriages. Being a systems engineer, I bring that thinking into, and I could not engineer my previous relationships. So it doesn't work, uh, from a personal point of view. And what I realized is in relationships, we gotta be able to interact from a different place than just our rational mind. We gotta have— and you hear it today, you want, you want leaders who are authentic, who are vulnerable, etc., etc. Those are very hard states to be in. But in my own journey, I realized that there's a place within me that I can become— I'll call it centered in or located— like the way my body vibrates. And I call that the heart center. And as you said, the heart center is a place of wisdom. And it's not a hard thing for people to experience. It's a hard thing to maintain on a regular basis, but it's not a hard thing to experience and to develop as a skill. Because think of the human body as a, as a collection of vibrational frequencies. And there's been some work done. I think one of the people that did this really well in the early days was David Hawkins in his book Power Versus Force. We talked about what we call emotions are really vibrational frequencies of the body. So I took that notion and some of my other experiences and said, if I can choose my— to the frequency my body vibrates at, that would put me in a state to be at a different level of experiencing the world around me. If I'm experiencing the world through anger, or if I'm experiencing it through anxiety, my, my body and my mind are going to respond a certain way. If I experience it through calm, through peace, through acceptance of what is, I'll be able to deal with life very differently. So what I wanted to be able to teach leaders is how to get into that state. And that's what we call heart centering. And like I said, it's not that difficult, because the mind has the ability to create an imagined experience, and the body will respond to that imagined experience.

Got it.

Put into simple terms, just think of a time when you felt love, and immediately, if you can conjure that up and bring to mind the presence of who you were there with and what you were seeing and what you were experiencing, the body will begin to vibrate at that. So getting into that state is easy to teach. Teaching people how to get into that state when they're surrounded by people yelling at them and coming, that's a little bit more challenging, but it's doable. And that's one of the things we help. So that's the heart centering. And let me tell you what the real benefit of the heart centering is. I sum it up in a couple of terms. It opens up the gate to intuition, insight, inspiration, and wisdom. So we now can deal with challenges with a whole different perspective. Lots more data, if you want to put it in that language. I like to say lots more information to balance the logical data with the intuitional, with the inspirational. So it's not one or the other, it's adding to and enhancing one capability. The other thing it does is when I'm in the heart center, I can listen to you differently. When I'm feeling confident and safe in myself, I can hear your questions from a perspective of connecting with you from where you are. I am now automatically vulnerable and authentic. If you want to create true psychological safety for people, be in relationship with them from the heart center. There's no other way because what the person is looking for safety is, am I safe to be vulnerable? Am I safe to admit I don't know what the hell I'm doing? Am I safe to acknowledge I really blew that big time? I can't get you to that place of vulnerability in yourself unless I am willing to be compassionate with who you are as you are, not trying to figure out how do I make you a better component. That will never create psychological safety. I don't care what systems and processes you use. So heart centering is what I call the foundational skill. From there, we build into heart-centered communication, which is an aspect of heart centering. Communication has to do with— think of active listening, where you're feeding back what you're hearing, but you're doing it from the heart. We're doing it with a sense of not only hearing what they're saying, but hearing what they're feeling and appreciating what they're who they are as they are. Ritual and storytelling come into this notion of reframing context. That's one skill rolled up into one we call reframing context. Because if context drives our behaviors, as we said earlier, then a key skill a leader needs to know how to do is reframe the context. And if you remember what I said at the last episode, context is a set of narratives. And so you have to change the narrative. But narratives need support. They need a scaffolding. And some of the scaffolding in business is structural, system, process. But some of it is ritual. So you want to create ritual as both— you want to create the processes that support the new narrative. But you also want to create ritual that creates—

Which would be what? What are examples of those rituals?

Think about any business, they all have rituals, right? They're mostly on ritual. How we make coffee in the office, that's a ritual, or how we respond to customers, that's a ritual, right? Rituals are patterns of behaviors that we do mostly unconsciously. Now, if we make them conscious, so for example, I want to change the way the salespeople or the order processing people respond to customers. So we have a new narrative, and to support that narrative, I might do something as when they do something the way we want them to do, we're going to bring every— ring a bell, bring everybody together, acknowledge this person for doing what we've said we wanted to do. That's a ritual. Okay. But it has to— rituals are rituals when they're done intentional, because the intentionality brings an energy to it. And when people are exposed to the ritual repeatedly, they start adopting that behavior pattern naturally. So you don't try to change Behaviors by having a change management process. You change behavior by changing the narrative and supporting it with what we call scaffolding, which, which consists of both ritual and process of systems and structure.

Love it. And improv mindsets.

I mean, that came to me because my wife, Jane, who we've been married now going on our 25th year. When we met, she was an improvisation performer. She taught, and this is not comedy improv, this was theater improv. So it's more of a serious drama. It was storytelling and stuff like that. But the principles of improv really impressed me because what improv does is it forces you to learn how to be comfortable with uncertainty. Because that's what improv is. I don't know what's coming, but I'm going to respond to it in a way that's going to be that's gonna work. And I can't— there's no predictability to it. There's no script that you're following. It's improv. And so if you learn the skill of heart centering, which we talked about, that puts you in the position to do the very first principle of improv, which is say yes to whatever comes your way. So instead of, oh my God, look what's happening to me and I don't understand it, it's, oh, look what's coming my way. And then if you tap into that intuitional part of you, that inspirational, you go, this is when I'm drawn to respond to that. And that's how improv works in a nutshell. If you strip out the comedy stuff that's going on around it that most people know about. And when that happens, all of a sudden you don't know why this thing works so well. You can't say, hey, I did A, B, C, D in this order. It's just this happened. We learned to respond to it from a deeper place inside of us and more intuitional or inspired place. And we're creating magic and it's easy. It just flows. I've watched my wife and her troupe perform. And some of the things I talked to her about afterwards is she said, I have no idea where that came from. But man, that thing became magical and the audience was moved by what happened. And you can see it in all the great performing— Robin Williams was known for his improvisational skills. He just made stuff up and it worked.

Yep.

Better than any script.

So the mindset is just always being willing to just go with the flow, so to speak?

Yes, but it's not just blindly going through the flow. You're learning the skills of when to apply it, when not to apply it. Not everything requires improv. And one of the things that I'm very careful about is to make sure people know we're not throwing out the machine paradigm. Those— there are elements of that are very important. But I've said one of the things that humans do to create outcomes is activity. And activity, you want that to be efficient. So we want to carry everything that works about the old paradigm forward, but we're just adding on to and enhancing it so that we're really getting to the root of how you make all that work better.

The Improv Mindset screamed to me because it's like, we don't want rigid, robotic individuals who can't respond and can't be flexible and can't go with the flow when something in front of them is wanting them to, begging them on to, okay, be a little bit agile and fluid through this. Don't be so system-oriented.

That's exactly right. But you have to understand that even in improvisation, there's structure to it.

Yes.

And we, you know, and the structure in business is really understand what we call it. We call it the strategic compass. It's the context setting thing for why we exist. It's what game are we playing and why are we playing it and what are we trying to accomplish? And who do we, and also who do we want to be? What's our character as a collective? Not just our values, blah, blah, blah, but Who are we as a living entity, as a person?

Because to your point, once you know that and you almost know the box you're working in, but yet then you can have fluidity and improv to go with play in that box in any way, shape, or form because you know what the framework is.

Yeah. It's one of the things I think the Living Organization framework brings to business is its comprehensive view of it all. There are people out there that are teaching improv and trying to teach go with the flow. There are people that they're teaching compassionate communication. And I'm not the, I'm not the first one to pick up all these elements, but I put it into a comprehensive framework that lets a leader know how these elements play together, and more importantly, how to make them work within a business environment.

Yes.

One of the things a lot of people don't understand is business is a, in my opinion, a developmental game. It's a different kind of developmental arena than say raising a kid. A lot of the processes are the same, but business is a time-based game. I don't have 5 years to see my child develop to a certain level of maturity. So we have to recognize what business is and apply these skills and these principles and these methodologies within that context. And a lot of the failures, I think, in in terms of people who are bringing in the new way of working is they focus on one element of it, like improv mindset, right? Or polarity thinking, which is where my balance, the balancing opposites come from.

Which is the fourth skill.

Which is the, yes. And they forget that it has to operate within a business environment. And business is a certain context. It's not government. It's not religion. It's not parenting. It's business and there are certain rules of the game and one of them is time-based. And that makes it, that makes all this very challenging. But that's what the living organization brings to leaders is an understanding of how to apply all that.

Love all of this.

Thank you.

That's why I had to have a part 2. I had to have a part 2, Norman. And I wanted to point out to everyone as well, there's so much you could be learning about the living organization framework. About Norman, about his business, you can go to quantumleaders.com. You can go to thelivingorganization.com. On thelivingorganization.com, he's mentioned his book a couple of times, and he has the book— The Living Organization was his first book, and he has a free copy for you if you were to go to thelivingorganization.com/book1. But He has a follow-up second book coming out later in the year that you're going to want to pay attention to.

It's called Leading the Living Organization. It goes into much greater depth about the skill sets we talked about briefly. It's written as a business parable. So it's a real-life CEO struggling with real— I shouldn't say real life. It's my character struggling with real-life situations that come from a composite of real-life challenges, clients, clients have faced, or I have faced.

Right.

And the consultant who comes in initially to help her through a particular challenge, utilizing the living organization principles. And then she becomes real curious about it and recognizes that she is faced with this challenge of leading differently. And so the second part of the book is her journey into learning these skills. And we go into all of the skills one by one. At the end of the chapter, there's a summary of what they learned because I want to translate narrative into the rational, logical mind. What 7 points did you learn here? And there's also questions at the end of each chapter to ponder what we just talked about and how does that apply to you? So we're really looking forward to the book. I just found out from the publisher it's going to be published or launched on September 1st.

Oh, okay.

That's our target launch date. So we're really excited about that. And sign up for the newsletter at thelivingorganization.com.

So everyone, please go to thelivingorganization.com. Right there you can get his book, livingorganization.com/book1, and sign up for his newsletter. And that way you'll also get early information regarding the release of his book, the second book, Leading a Living Organization. And you can just learn all about him and the work that he's doing. Fantastic. Thank you so much, Bernadette.

I've really enjoyed this very much. I've been on a lot of podcasts and this has been absolutely delightful.

For everyone who has listened to both parts of this conversation with Norman, thank you. You just invested an hour of valuable time in thinking differently about how you lead, how you show up, and what's actually possible within your organization. That's not nothing. That's the work. Now, before we close out, let's make sure you know exactly where to find Norman because there is much more to come. Your first stop is thelivingorganization.com. That's thelivingorganization.com. Right there you can grab a copy of his book free, The Living Organization. Just go to thelivingorganization.com/book1. Read it, share it with your leadership team. It will change the conversation in your organization. And keep your eyes out on that site because Norman's second book Leading a Living Organization is targeting a September 2026 release date. It's written as a business parable, goes deep into every skill we just talked about in part 2, but also everything from part 1. Be sure to sign up for his newsletter at thelivingorganization.com so you are first in line when the preorder opens and when the book drops. Norman, thank you again. This was truly a privilege. And to my listeners and viewers, here's my ask. If this two-part conversation moved you, challenged you, or gave you one thing that you can do differently as a leader, then share it. Share it with a colleague. Drop it in your leadership team's group chat. Tag me when you do, because I want to hear what landed for you. If you're not yet subscribed to Shedding the Corporate Bitch, this is your moment. Hit follow or subscribe right now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube. Shed the Corporate Bitch TV channel. Anywhere you get your podcasts. And if you really want to show love, leave us a review. It takes 2 minutes and it helps more leaders just like you find these conversations. And that's exactly why we do this. Bernadette, I'll look forward to having you for another episode of Shedding the Corporate Bitch. Bye.

Thank you for tuning in to today's episode of Shedding the Corporate Bitch. Every journey taken together is another step towards unleashing the powerhouse leader within you. Don't miss any of our weekly episodes. Subscribe to our podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you love to listen. And for those who thrive on visual content, catch us on our Shedding the Bitch YouTube channel. Wanna dive deeper with Bernadette on becoming a powerhouse leader? Visit balloffirecoaching.com to learn more about how she helps professionals, HR executives, and team leaders elevate overall team performance. You've been listening to Shedding the Corporate Bitch with Bernadette Boas. Until next time, keep shedding, keep growing, and keep leading.