Leading Through Change Successfully | Leadership Insights with Borja Cuan

There's a strange paradox in leadership right now. We ask leaders to be decisive, but we also know the map is wrong. We expect clarity while the future is still blurry. And somehow teams are supposed to feel grounded while the finish line keeps moving. My guest today has lived this tension from both sides. He joined a startup as employee number 29, stayed for 8 years through layoffs, mergers, and uncertainty, and built something from that experience that most leaders Never Do: A Clear Test of Philosophy for Leading People When Nothing Is Guaranteed. Bora Khan is the co-founder of 415 Digital, a Google Premier Partner, where he has spent over two decades blending big picture strategy with exacting execution. Bora is going to share with us what leadership actually looks like when change isn't a phase, it's the environment. How adapting leadership styles during periods of rapid business change accelerates success for everyone. The non-negotiables leaders should keep constant to give their teams a sense of grounding while the walls are moving. Also, how leaders can adapt their communication style to be directionally correct even when the specifics are blurry. And lastly, your actionable takeaways. To help leaders keep their teams aligned in times of rapid change without becoming a micromanager. Stay with us.

Welcome to Shedding the Corporate Bitch, the podcast that transforms today's managers into tomorrow's powerhouse leaders. Your host, Bernadette Boas, executive coach and author, brings you into a world where the corporate grind meets personal growth and success in each and every episode. Let's do this.

Ora, very nice to meet you. Welcome.

Nice to meet you. Thanks for having me.

We can't talk enough about adaptability and change management and what leaders really need to do in order to keep themselves sane, but also their team members sane. But I'm curious, is there a personal story or experience that you had had when it comes to change? But is there a heart-to-heart story that really lends itself to the importance of this subject?

I think being an employee for many years before starting my own business is where I learned a lot. Having been managed by leaders before, some of which maybe I disliked or liked less than others. Overall, I think my track record has been positive, where a lot of the managers that I've had in the past have been very influential in a positive way. But along the way, I've also experienced things that I didn't like as an employee or having been managed. And I think both the good and the not good are things that I've brought with me and implemented myself as a leader, having sort of been on the other side. So I typically draw from a lot of the experiences I had having worked for other companies before starting my own. And I think a lot of what I really think about is the first job that I had right out of college where I joined a very early-stage startup as number 29 and stayed at that company. I remember that because the badge was, you know, something I kept as a memento. But, but yeah, I joined them very early on and ended up at that company for 8 years, which is not an insignificant amount of time. And I grew up a lot over those 8 years. But again, Having been exposed to different facets of the business, having worked for a lot of different leaders over that time really taught me a lot about leadership.

Well, I'm curious. You mentioned that you've worked with some— haven't we all— that, you know, you didn't like so much. But let's help our listeners who are leaders or they're managers wanting to transition into being true leaders. What were those things that made someone not likable to you?

The thing that sticks out the most is the effort they made to connect with me as an individual. That is what typically for me has been the, the most, I would say, impactful thing. When I've had a manager, leader who has really taken an interest in me as a whole individual, not just professionally but personally as well. And not to say that we had to be best friends and spend time outside of work together. But what I mean by that is really caring about me as a complete person and my well-being and, and advancement as a person, and really understanding what mattered to me. And, and, and through that development in terms of the relationship, it just made me very motivated to want to work for them and make them look good and go above and beyond because I knew at the core they truly cared about me as a person. And so that trust that we established, the fact that I knew they had my back, that they really were available to me, made all the difference in me really wanting to work hard on their behalf.

And does it also help, in your opinion and your experience, when it does come to constant change, which Welcome to 2026. Does all of that help you, like, employees to really feel secure and stable and confident that, you know, you got their back, you know what you're doing? Help us understand what all of that can do for a team when it comes to needing to adapt to constant change that's happening.

Yeah, I mean, you're absolutely right. We're living at a time where things are changing daily, right? And I feel that today, and again, maybe my point of view is skewed a bit, but I do feel like it's a hypercompetitive job landscape, meaning a lot of employees are happy where they are, but they're being sought after quite aggressively. And while they may not be looking, when someone comes to them with an opportunity, maybe there's only so many times they can decline that opportunity. And eventually they take a call and that call is of interest to them and they take that second call. Then one thing leads to another and here we are, we have another sort of opportunity to compete again. So I think you have to have that relationship with your team. You really have to understand what is important to them and what is not important and what their personal goals and objectives are for the position that they have at your company. And make sure that you're clear on what it is they wanna get out of this experience, right? So as the employer, there are things that you want your team to do and they need to be making an impact and contribution to help the business accomplish its goals. But at the same time, each of us as individuals have our own personal goals and objectives that we wanna accomplish during our time here. So what I always say is very important is really understanding what that is for each person, knowing it's not the same for everybody, and really taking the time to sit down and fully understand what that is for the individual. And most importantly, once you have that information, taking action and creating a plan that allows them to understand what they need to do in order to accomplish those goals and objectives, and then periodically track that progress or lack thereof and sit down with them formally and say, hey, we're on track. You know, you wanted to do this, you wanted to do that. Great, we're achieving the milestones that we both agreed to in order to accomplish this goal. Or, hey, you're doing this really well, but you're falling behind in this area, and in order for us to be on track, you need to improve. So by doing that, it shows them that not only did you listen, but you put a plan in place and that you're actually monitoring the progress or lack thereof, and that you care enough to spend time and sit down with them. And these things are ever-changing. So really for me, and I've seen this and just recently experienced this, just to give you a real-life example of an employee who has been very happy with her job here and sat down and we've had these really great one-on-one conversations. We've mapped out a roadmap for them. That talks about how they can accomplish the goals that they have. And they recently approached me and they said, hey, you know, I got this job offer and I wasn't looking, but this company approached me, or this recruiter approached me with this job offer. And then I took a call and now they gave me this really good offer. And while I love it here and I like it here and I wanna stay, I now have this decision I have to make. And that's really hard, right? You know, there are things that you can control. There are things that you can't control, right? So you can't control how many people are reaching out to your team and, and sort of dangling this carrot in front of them. But what you can control is creating an environment in which people can thrive and maximize their opportunities at your company. And so if we focus on those things and do A+ work in those areas, beyond that, there's really nothing you can do, right? Because I have had people tell me, hey, I really love it here. And it's not that I'm leaving because I dislike it, but I'm kind of curious if the grass is greener and I'm curious at what this opportunity is. And that's hard to compete against.

In what ways, though? Like, what were both of those individuals, you know, other than if it's greener on the other side? But what does that even mean to somebody?

So first thing I said to this person was, First and foremost, are you happy here and do you want to stay here? Because everything after that is irrelevant. Do you want to stay here and are you happy? If the answer is yes, then I would like to compete with that offer and understand what is missing in your current offer that you need in order to feel good about the job you have. Right. But what's really like— what we have to be thoughtful is understanding that people are staying for the right reasons. What are the motivations? Right? You don't want the motivation to just be a little bit more money, even though for some that is important. And I recognize money is important, we have bills to pay, but there's a deeper purpose that really motivates people to come into work and put in the 40 hours a week, right? You have to really have more interest beyond the financial gain, right? Because I think the financial gain is a short-term thing. Not a long-term thing. So that's why I started with, hey, if the answer is yes to the following question, then I'm willing to work with you on these other areas, right? Title and money and benefits. Right. But first, I need to know that you really want to be here. Right. And so I think for them, yeah, it's, it's a combination of, hey, there's a little bit more money, maybe this benefit is better, maybe there's more flexibility in working from home than we currently have. And to me, those are all things that become a conversation between employee and employer. Here. And for the right person, I am willing to bend over backwards and make concessions, right? Because now I have trust in this employee. They've been with us for a couple years. They have proven that they're contributing in a positive way. They also have a desire to be here. And then the other thing that was really important that they did say to me was the one unknown to them, because I did say, listen, grass is often browner, not greener. So I support you. Whether you stay or go because I like you and I want to, I want to part ways on amicable terms. But I want you to be thoughtful with your decision. And I typically have this conversation with younger people. I'm older. I have 28 years of experience, so I've seen a lot. And I often say, listen, you have a known quantity here. You know who your manager is. You know what your job is. You know what the expectations are. You're walking into something that could be better. It could be equal, it could be worse. You don't know, right? So if you choose to leave, do it really thinking about everything in its totality, right? Don't just be motivated by a little more money. Don't just be motivated by a little more flexibility. Those are important things that we can work with you on. But remember, you do— don't— you don't really know what it's like. You haven't stress tested this organization. You haven't stress tested your manager. There are all of these things that are question marks until you're actually there on board. You know, it became a conversation and And I really listened to what mattered to them. And they said growth was a little bit unknown there, where I feel like here I have a growth path because I, because I took the time to actually map that out with this individual. So they felt confident that there was a path upward mobility. And through that conversation, I said, here's what I want to do, you know, because I value you and I want you to stay. And I said, here, I'm going to match in all these areas, but only do this if you really want to be here. And then I said, now you have all the information you need to make a good decision.

That's all you can do. Like you said, it's, you know, beyond that, it's out of your control.

Exactly. And I said, I will feel good regardless of what you decide, as much as I— and I was very clear, I want you to stay, right? I want you to stay. That's, that's my hope. But if in the end you don't, I feel good knowing that I have listened to what matters to you and I've put forth an offer that matches everything you wanted. So if you decide to leave, then at least I've done my best to retain you.

Now, question for you, because you earlier, you said, you know, there were these things that you didn't like necessarily about those managers or leaders you've worked for and whatnot. Did they lack this level of communication and engagement and connection with their people? And that being, you know, one of the real reasons why you would also say this wasn't just someone that I enjoyed my experience with?

Yeah, I think that communication to me is the single most important skill set one should develop. The ability to be an effective communicator, not in the frequency, but in the quality of communication. And when you're talking about building relationships, whether it's client or employee-client relationships, fail to thrive when there is bad communication or not sufficient communication and giving the right communication. And that becomes a friction point in any relationship, client or employee. It always is the difference between a good and a bad relationship. The better we are at communicating, the more clear we are in communicating. And within communication, uh, active listening is a component to that. It's not just what we say, it's how we take information in. But it is very important. Yes, in my experience, uh, poor leaders do a poor job in communicating, right? And they don't communicate right, or they're vague in their communication, or they don't take enough time to sit down with you and build relationships. For me, this, what we're doing today, uh, is good but it will never be better than you and I sitting together in person, face to face. This will never be better. Never. Not in 10 years, not in 20 years. It wasn't better. It's not better. This isn't bad, but the way we cement our relationship and build a deep connection is by being in person and spending time in person. Now, you don't have that luxury of doing that every day, but you still need to introduce that to a relationship to really connect with people on a more deep level.

'Cause it shouldn't be an excuse that they can't get to someone face-to-face, one-on-one, to not attempt to connect via even Zoom.

Exactly. I believe in diversity of communication. So we have an office in Mexico and the team is there. And I'm going back in two weeks. I was there a month and a half ago. And that week I spent with them was equal to 100 Zoom calls. And no one will convince me otherwise because I didn't read a book or attend a class. It's I experienced this one-to-one. So for me, when I spent time with them having a coffee, having lunch, having dinner together, having a meeting together in person, they just had a different feeling about me as a founder. Like me taking the time to visit them and spend time with them in person meant a lot to them. And I do believe it's the difference between lazy and not lazy. Like, me getting on a plane and going to Mexico requires effort. I have children who are young, I have a wife, I have responsibility here. I could find a reason not to go, but I also see why it's necessary if I care about this investment in Mexico and the team that I show face, right? Otherwise they won't feel like they're valued. And so that is the effort Like anything else, relationships require effort and there are different levels to the effort we make. Some people say text is a lot of effort. Other people say phone calls, a lot of effort. And then some people are like, I'm going to spend some time with you in person in addition to these other things, because I really care a lot.

So you've peppered into the conversation the term leaders, even when you're talking about those that lack, you said poor communi— they have poor communication. Do you— would you consider them leaders, or are they just managers that have yet to evolve certain traits and skills to where they are truly a leader?

Yeah, I mean, I think when you're a manager, you're managing people. So at some levels, you're a leader, right? You have responsibility to a team, whether it's 1 or 20 or whatever. So I think I think there are levels to leadership, right? And by the way, I have so much room to improve as a leader. There are so many areas that I could be better in. And by the way, for me, leadership has been a constant sort of evolution. You know, when I started my agency, I don't think I was as good of a leader as I am now.

Sure.

And in 5 years, I will say, I think I was a— I'm a better leader today than I was 5 years ago because I think you're constantly learning. About things, right? About yourself, about the people that you work with, what mattered to them that maybe you overlooked. There's just all these little things you can do to optimize yourself as a leader. But I do think your point is valid in that maybe they haven't mastered or even become proficient in that area to allow themselves or call themselves leaders, because I think that is a big difference. Right, is communication and the ability to communicate with your team. And along the lines of communication, I think transparency is so important to people. And for me, it was one of the leadership qualities that I learned early, was so important to my growth as an individual. But at the time it was very hard to accept and like understand because I would get a lot of feedback and people were very open with me because I ended up becoming close with a lot of the senior people at this organization. I just took an interest to, to have them mentor me and teach me the ways because I knew they were successful. So I took the initiative and said, hey, would you be interested in having coffee with me or lunch? And because of that, I learned so much. And one of the things I learned, and at the time it was hard, And was really how someone being transparent with you, not just with the good things that you're doing, but also the bad things, is very important in building a close connection. And that was hard for me to accept in my early 20s as a green employee.

But man, did it build a lot of sort of thickness of skin and character, because now you have to be willing to have those hard conversations with people. Yeah, I love the saying. I've heard about it years ago, but that, you know, feedback, especially hard, difficult feedback, is actually a gift. It's a gift to that individual to grow and to, you know, evolve, you know, because without it, they'll never know, right?

How will we know if we surround ourselves not only professionally, but personally with people who don't tell us what the truth is, or like what we need to hear versus what we want to hear. So that's how I have built my strongest, most deepest, uh, connections with people, is by having a lot of authenticity to our relationships. And, you know, and that means, hey, we're going to support each other and we're going to trust each other, and anything I say to you is because I care deeply about your success, health, etc. That, you know, it's coming from a good place. And as long as we have that understanding, then anything that we say to each other is because we care, not because we're trying to be mean or hurtful or bring you down. It's really with the best interest in mind.

Yeah. And where does vulnerability in leadership come into play since we are talking about transparency and connection?

It's so important. I think you have to be vulnerable. You can't— you have to— it's a give and take, right? So I have to draw from my experiences with my team and say, hey, this— not my whole sort of career has not been easy and I was promoted without asking and I never did a bad job or made mistakes. You have to really explain how when someone reaches some level of success in their life, right? They start their own company, that company does well. What's most interesting to me is learning about all the stuff that didn't go so well. And as a leader, you have to talk about that and say, hey, I understand where you are in your evolution as a professional. I was there, and man, I was struggling with this, right? I had insecurities. I didn't get my first job that I applied for, right? And I talk about that openly. I made this mistake. Uh, someone once told me something, you know, like that hurt me and it affected me. Like, you have to talk about those experiences, and, and because otherwise they can't relate to you if everything you've done has been a success, right? Which isn't representative of my career, you know? And that really also makes them feel like they can relate to you, which I think is an important part. And also, as a leader, one of the things that I have been good about is really acknowledging to the team publicly whenever I've made a mistake or there's been an error in judgment.

Nice.

You know, like, I—

yeah, how has— how is that received from your people when you do that?

It's been received in a positive way, providing— what I always say is it's not just acknowledging the wrongdoing doing. It's also explaining to them sort of the thought process behind what you did that you acknowledge was wrong. And then most importantly, what are you going to do tomorrow differently to prevent that from happening again? Or what is the course of action you've taken to change or modify the way you were doing things? So that happened to me early on in my career at this company when I co-founded the agency. I was putting the clients over the employees. I was so obsessive over retention of our clients that I forgot that my team was absorbing the burden of that pressure that I created. And, and I realized it, you know, I was observing people, I was having conversations with people, and I was seeing the toll it took on them as individuals. And I quickly acknowledged it and I said, hey guys, I got this wrong. And I don't want you to think I got it wrong because I didn't care about you. But as a new business owner, we got a client and I didn't want them to leave. It was like so important that they'd stay with us. And so I was putting so much pressure on you to make that a reality that I forgot it has to be balanced. And I said, and I'm sorry, you know, those actions, that decision that I took negatively or adversely affected your quality of life at this company. And for that, I'm, I'm sorry. And I want you to know Now I'm flipping it around where I'm saying it's employee over client.

Nice. Do you, do you see or come across a lot of leaders with that approach, with that attitude?

I'm sure there are leaders like that, but I think good leaders know you have to be empathetic and you can't— that's not a sustainable model, you know, to have. If you want a business that's thriving and you wanna retain your employees and not have all this turnover, you really have to have that mindset. I'm not saying every company. Has that sort of mindset around it. But I would say the, you know, for you to have a successful business, you have to adopt the mindset. It's not to say you can't stand, have standards of excellence and have the bar high and have expectations of people. You just have to balance it with, hey, we have to check ourselves, right? Like, if, if a client is excessively demanding on our team, it's my job to intervene for that employee and make sure that what is being asked of them is reasonable. Sometimes it might be reasonable within scope, and other times it's not. And we have to raise our hands and say, hey, let me take care of this for you, and have a conversation with that client. And I have had that conversation with a client where I've said, hey, listen, you're affecting this employee's quality of life to the degree that it might cost me their employment here. And you can see why that would matter to me is because they're an important part of this organization and I care about this employee. And if you are causing that much, much of a problem for them, I think we need to reevaluate this relationship, this business relationship. So I really think about when I bring in a deal, I oftentimes I'm thinking about, is this a good match? Would this person be someone that my team would enjoy working with? Not to say that a client can't be tough on you, right? This is a professional services business. Like, not every client's going to be always nice, and they have pressure. We're dealing with multi-billion-dollar organizations. So like, that's all okay. It's just doing it in a way that is in the spirit of a partnership.

Yes, because not all money is good money.

No, not all money is created equally.

Yes, and that too. Yes, most definitely. You talk about some non-negotiables. For leaders. Could you elaborate on that? What would be non-negotiables?

Yeah, I think it's, uh, for leaders, I think it's, uh, having empathy, being empathetic, really understanding the team. And maybe I'm being a bit repetitive here. I don't know. But for me, each person, no different than the way I approach client engagements, it's a bespoke approach. That's not to say that, you know, there aren't— there is an overlap with what people like, right? We have a kind of an idea of what is important to people based on sort of years of experience. So let's say 80% applies to everybody, but then there's this 20% that is very custom to each person that we as employers have to really take the time to understand. And I think that is a non-negotiable because if you just rely on the 80%, that 20% to me is a difference between having an employee stay at your company for 1 year versus 4 years. And if every employee that joined my company on day 1 said, I'm committing to 4 years, I would take it. Because today is not like when I worked back in 1998 for my first company, where I stayed there 8 years and then the next job 6 years. Here, I think today the term is leapfroggers or I don't know, there's some term where now everybody says a year, if I move around and work at companies for a year, it's still gonna accomplish my end goal. For me, I have a very different POV on it. I'm more traditional. I'm more, hey, when the times get tough, don't pull the ripcord because I didn't and it afforded me so much opportunity. A lot of times things get tough or uncomfortable for people, and they're not comfortable with being uncomfortable, so they jump ship. Where I try to be like, no, that's when I think things get interesting, right? Maybe people around me left, and I said, this is my journey, it's not about their journey. Maybe for them this wasn't the right place, but for me, this is the right place. And when someone leaves, that might present an opportunity for me. Plus, I think my employer sees me as loyal dedicated, committed, and also understands that in business things change. They're ever-changing. You know, I've been through layoffs, you know, I've been through mergers and acquisitions and uncertainty. I was just— that was the environment that I operated in where things were not guaranteed and you had to work every day to earn your job or keep it. And I think today, you know, people, you know, they're reading a lot of LinkedIn and You know, there's this mindset of, hey, you don't have to stay at a job for a long time. And I'm not saying you can't be successful moving jobs. I just would tell my own children loyalty pays off in the end. And when things get uncomfortable, learn how to deal with discomfort. And, you know, there's a, a lot that comes with loyalty, right?

I love that. And I'm putting down one of those non-negotiables is learn to Be comfortable with being uncomfortable.

Discomfort is, is where we grow, right? And you know this. I'm speaking here or preaching to the choir. You know this. You know, you never— it's not good to be comfortable. In fact, the moment you get too comfortable with your life, I don't think you're challenging yourself enough. And that's not to say that you need to live in constant discomfort. I'm saying you need to introduce aspects of discomfort into your life. Otherwise, how do you know that you're growing? Right? And so what that is for each person is different. And then I also say stress is actually good. The, the sooner you understand to embrace stress and not reject it, because stress is a normal part of life. As you get older, you have more responsibility, whether that's I got married, I had kids, I started a business, I now have a mortgage. You're going to have stress. Stress is inevitable, right? There are different levels of stress, and that's not to say that you need to be stressed all the time, But I think the better we are equipped to manage stress when it comes, and the better we understand that it's not an abnormal thing to be stressed, I think the easier it becomes to deal with it.

I absolutely agree with you. I actually work much better under stress. I like a lot of pressure around me. However, at the same time, I've heard— I've had to learn a lot of mindfulness. You know, just so when I have that stress coming on, I can recognize that it's a good energetic stress versus an anxious, overwhelmed type of stress, and then adapt accordingly. Is that anything that you've experienced?

No, I think that's exactly right. And I think I always know it's temporary. Yeah, right. It will pass.

Yes.

So And I've observed a lot of people have stress in their life that's self-created. It actually doesn't exist.

So what would you— what would you leave our listeners and viewers with when it comes to just really leaning into being the leader that they are meant to be and to ensure that they're taking care of themselves and their, their team members so they do want to be loyal and, and stay and, and contribute the best they can?

I would say it's not easy. Understand that you will evolve as a leader. On day 1, you may not be as good of a leader as you are on day 100, right? It's a constant thing where we have to work to improve. I would say also that leadership shouldn't be perceived as a popularity contest. Meaning, I have found that sometimes, and it's kind of like parenting to me, you have sort of the good and the bad parent, not literally, but you know what I mean. And I, what I mean by that is sometimes as a leader, you have to make tough decisions that are in the best interest of the company, your shareholders, your partners, your employees, that may be unpopular. So how do you lead when you have to make those types of decisions? And so what I always say is I care about what people's opinions are of me, but not everybody. I care about a select group of people in general and what their opinions are of me. Otherwise, I'm very focused on accomplishing the mission and doing what is the best for the overall company. And sometimes that means we have to make unpopular decisions that people won't like, but someone has to make that decision. And as long as when you make those decisions, you're very good at the communication, meaning help people explain What decision has been made? How did you come about making that decision? Why did you make that decision? And then let them know kind of like the rationale behind it. They feel more— they understand the why, and so they respect you more. It's acknowledging, I know you may not like the decision, but let me help you understand why I made the decision, right? And what did I consider? I know that you didn't want us to do this, but here's why I had to do it. So it's not just making decisions without any communication. People don't feel good about that. It goes back to what we talked about. It's, hey, they're going to respect that maybe you don't always do what they want, but at least you took the time to explain it.

Yeah, I love that. I love that. Ora, thank you so much. This has been great. I so appreciate it. But I want to mention to everybody, please go to his website, learn more about him and his business. It's 415digital.com. I'm going to explain this. Because it's the word for and then the number 15 digital.com. And then also be sure to follow him on LinkedIn, borjaquan.com. Please be sure to reach out to him, link in with him, and learn from him, because what we've learned today is just— it sounds very practical and simple, and yet so many people struggle with it, wouldn't you say?

I would. Yeah, thank you. I love the content you're putting out there through your podcast. So thanks for doing this. I enjoyed the conversation.

Oh, thank you so much. Have a beautiful, beautiful day. If this conversation did anything, I hope it reminded you that leading through change doesn't require having all the answers. It requires showing up consistently, honestly, and with genuine investment in the people around you. Bora gave us a lot to work with. The idea that you can't control who's calling your best people, but you can control the environment they're operating in. That the non-negotiable isn't certainty, it's connection. That communicating the why behind every tough decision isn't a soft skill. It's what keeps trust intact when everything else is shifting. And maybe the one thing that's going to sit with me as I move forward is that fact that discomfort is not a warning sign. It's actually where things get interesting. If you lead people, whether you're managing a team of 3 or steering an entire organization, there is something in this episode that you are going to be able to bring to work tomorrow. Actually, even today. Start with one conversation, build one roadmap, explain one decision you've been avoiding explaining. That's how it compounds. Now, to connect with Bora, visit 415digital.com. That's the word 4, the number 15, digital.com. You can also find and link in with him on LinkedIn at Bora Khan. Now, if this episode is useful to you, the best thing you could do is share it with one leader in your network who needs to hear it and follow the show wherever you may listen or watch. That could be Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on our YouTube channel at Shed the Corporate Bitch TV., and I'll see you in the next one.

Bye. Thank you for tuning into today's episode of Shedding the Corporate Bitch. Every journey taken together is another step towards unleashing the powerhouse leader within you. Don't miss any of our weekly episodes. Subscribe to our podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you love to listen. And for those who thrive on visual content, catch us on our Shedding the Bitch YouTube channel. Wanna dive deeper with Bernadette on becoming a powerhouse leader? Visit balloffirecoaching.com to learn more about about how she helps professionals, HR executives, and team leaders elevate overall team performance. You've been listening to Shedding the Corporate Bitch with Bernadette Boas. Until next time, keep shedding, keep growing, and keep leading.