PropelHer® Influence with Barbara Teicher

Welcome, welcome, welcome to Shedding the Corporate Bitch, the podcast that transforms female corporate executives into powerhouse leaders by showing them how to shed the challenges and overwhelm along with any fear, insecurity, self-doubt, and negativity holding them back. I'm your host, Bernadette Boas of Ball of Fire Coaching, bringing you powerhouse discussions each week to share tips, advice, and sometimes tough love so you create the riches in your work and life you deserve. Let's do this. I am so excited. I am talking with Barbara Teicher all about what is keeping many women from getting promoted, gaining influence, and achieving their career ambitions. Barbara's going to help you learn about the dangers of assuming, what is causing your career to be stagnant, and what you can do to propel. Welcome to the show, Barbara. How are you?

I am well, Bernadette. Thank you. How are you?

I fantastic, especially around this subject matter, because I do think that a lot of women don't really take the time to really dig into why is it that they aren't moving and propelling, as you say, forward in their career. So I would love to first understand what is it that you mean when it comes to propelling?

I think that actually can mean a couple different things. Most women, most people think of propelling in the sense of moving up the ladder, but sometimes propelling means climbing out of the mud up that ladder, right? Sometimes we're stuck. Up is not the only way. It could be that based on your values, you don't want to move up, you want to move over, or you want to move down, or you maybe you want to move out and go to a different company altogether. So it can mean a bunch of different things.

Yeah, I love that. I love that. So what happens to someone when they realize that kind of a shift is needed, that some sort of change is needed? You call it stagnant, but what is it that provokes them to finally move and do something about it?

You know, that's a, that's an interesting question because I think a lot of this came during the pandemic. All of a sudden people were looking next to them and having dinner with people that looked familiar, right? And they weren't running 50 miles an hour to go to the next practice. So that could have been a catalyst. It could have been coming back and they realize maybe they don't want to be in a company where they have to be in the office every day. They want to work remotely a few days a week, or just the opposite. They need that structure of being in the office. So it could be a lot of different things acting as a catalyst. It could be the point in their career. Maybe they have little kids and they don't want to travel. Maybe they're empty nesters and they're okay to travel. So all of these things together can be different for different people, and all of them have their own answers as to the best way to move forward from those. Right.

What level of professional woman do you work with and what level would you find is more impacted than others, or is there an impact greater or lesser depending upon the level that you are in an organization?

Let me answer both of those questions. First of all, I think all levels of women are impacted, whether you are an officer, uh, in executive leadership, upper management, individual contributor, supervisor. I don't think that matters. Who do I work with? My sweet spot is management and leadership, directors, upper-level managers, managers. My book actually relates to all folks, whether they are just starting that journey and they're new supervisors or they are executives and helping them communicate. So those are the people that I work with. And I do think this impacts all levels of females in the workplace.

What I was thinking about, and you just kind of touched on that, it's a category of the people that you work with, is I wondered if there was a difference between someone who's just new to being, you know, a supervisor slash manager as opposed to those that have been kind of in that people role? Because managing people is really tough, let alone after everything that everyone's been through over the last few years. So I wonder if there's a dynamic or a difference between that spectrum of professional.

I think there's both. I think for someone just starting out as a supervisor, I don't know what to say. And when I say it, they look at me like I'm from Mars. And I'm not in on all this political lingo, and I don't get how the game is played. And there's that piece, right? Then there's the piece as you move up the ladder, not necessarily into executive leadership, but into management, where I think the communication is more necessary but not always as comfortable. Because once you get into management, you are dealing with various different streamlines, I'll say. So for instance, you may be in marketing, but you're also working with product and you're working with finance and HR, etc. So that communication piece becomes critical. One of the things that I talk about that you and I have talked about a little bit before I came on today was the 3 things that are really, really imperative to help propel women in their careers. And those 3 things are insight, influence, and impact. Now, what's interesting is most people listen to those and go, "That's not a big deal." And that's the challenge. People tend to ignore insight because they don't understand what it is. They think, "Oh, I've done this before. There's my insight," which is not true. Influence, people assume they have it, and they assume it's positive. And the 3rd piece, impact, is what everyone strives for because they feel it's the most visible. So everybody shoots for impact when unfortunately, when you're not paying attention to the insight piece of it and you're not aware as you think you are of the influence, you actually oftentimes have a negative impact. And so we can go as far as you would like to on what the details of each of those components are to help women in the workplace.

So I love that. I would love to understand the powerfulness behind each of those 3 things?

Well, let me give you an example. Let's say insight. Okay. One of the pieces that I talk about a lot in my programs with insight is you don't know what you don't know. For instance, I'll take assumptions. The thing about assumptions is you don't really realize you have them. I'm going to tell a brief story, if I may. In 2019, I had a horrific bicycle accident in the south of France. Now I'm going to start a sentence, Bernadette, and I'm going to ask you to finish it because I think everyone knows what most people would say. So here is the sentence: The French are rude and they hate— who?

I was going to say Americans right off the bat.

That's exactly right. Now that is not true. I spoke in France 5 months before this accident, and they're delightful. But there's the assumption, the French are rude and they hate Americans. Now, normally, an assumption might impact your perceptions, maybe your decisions, but this day it impacted my life. Because I kept thinking, the French are rude and they hate Americans. French are rude and they— lions and tigers and bears, oh my, right? And so, my heart rate was escalating and my blood pressure was soaring. Now, that's an extreme example, but in the business world, when you make assumptions, it can ruin relationships. It can impact decision-making that should go a different way, because our assumptions, we assume, are relevant and are factual. So there's the first piece. Check your assumptions, not just about the project that's going on, but about the people you work with, the people that you work for, All of these things, because they have a tendency to impact your perception and decisions. So there's the first thing with insight. With influence, you asked, how do people know, or how can they tell besides not getting promoted if their careers are stagnant?

Right.

If you've ever been in a meeting and you say something and people go, oh, and 2 minutes later, someone else, usually a male, will say almost the exact thing. And he's brilliant. Oh my gosh, what a great idea. You're like, wait a minute, wait a minute. It's so true. I just said that. It's so true. If that is what's happening, then your influence isn't where it needs to be. And there's a whole many programs I do on that. One of the things that you need to check is called the power of your presence. And what that means is, You know how when some people walk into a room and they just have it, right? And you kind of look at them and it's not because of the clothes they're wearing or who they're with. They just kind of command your attention. They have the it factor. Those people are usually the influencers, and it's too deep to go into today, but getting, getting that influence so that when you speak, people listen to you, and you don't feel like you could be talking like this and the whole rest of the world is looking everywhere else except at you. Right?

Yes. Love it.

So once you have other components, but once you have the insight piece and it's real insight and you have the influence piece, you have the ears of the people that you need to have, and your message is clear and true. Those two things together can have that impact. You don't have to have both of those to have impact. But the challenge is when people try to have that impact and they're not using the first two, it oftentimes doesn't go the way you want.

Yeah, well, that was exactly what came into my head, is they think they have impact and they truly don't, and they're defining impact incorrectly.

Because they also feel they have influence, and they may or may not. And influence isn't an overall statement, Bernadette. For instance, someone may have influence in the marketing world, but if someone's in the meeting from finance, they don't know who you are, they don't care who you are. You sure don't have influence in their world, right? So we just kind of assume if we have it here, then we probably have it other places, and that's not necessarily true.

Yeah, well, I love that. So what impact should especially women who are looking to either really excel in their position and/or climb and propel themselves— is there a part of impact? Is there a certain type of impact that they really should be focused and targeting and even goaling around?

My suggestion would be Don't focus on the impact at all. Oh, focus on the insight that you should be garnering before you go to a meeting, before you start a project, before you have this conversation with whomever. And also take a step back and look at your influence. Do you have it, or do you think you have it? Because impact, as you're saying, can be organic if you have the insight and you have the influence, then whatever you're trying to do is more likely going to have a positive impact. But what people try to do is just go out of the blue, impact, impact, right? And it doesn't work, right? Because they're not using— it's kind of like going on a trip and you don't pack, you just get on the plane. Wait a minute, you know, I don't have any shorts, I don't have any jeans, I don't have anything. And that's what it is in the workplace. So if I may, Another thing that women in the workplace tend to do is take a back seat.

Yes, they do.

Here's what I mean by this. I did a TED Talk, a TEDx Talk, here in Kansas City for TEDxKC Women. I loved it. It's on YouTube. You can look it up. But the thing that I talk about is to stop being yourself. Now, everybody's going to go, "What do you mean stop being myself?" But what I mean by that is that too often ourselves are made up of who we think we should be and who others want us to be. The, the title of your program, it made me smile because when I think back to my first time as a manager, this was back in the day. In order to be taken seriously, you had to try to blend in like a man— navy blue suit, blue heels, be tough, right? Right? Well, no, that's not the persona you want anymore. Right? You don't have to wear the proverbial brass bra, excuse me, but that's what a lot of us feel like in order to be taken seriously.

Yeah.

And yet, in using your insight and building your influence, who you should be is you. Now, there's a lot of different yous in there, right?

It's true.

And I talk about that on this TED Talk, but the yous that I mean are Who, who are you really? Are you the kind of person that's very loud and outgoing, but you don't think you should be because that's not appreciated in women at your company? Or are you a person that's, that's very timid, but you, you don't want to be timid at work because you feel like everybody's expecting you to be loud because that's how everybody else is? Stop it, right? Stop being that self. The key to all of this— let me share one thing too. Knowledge is power. You need to know your industry as a woman in business, as anyone in business. You need to know the products that you are doing and working on and what the competition is doing, and you need to know your counterpart's stake in this. So for instance, if you're going to go to a meeting and you are going to try to collaborate with them and get one of your ideas across to gain agreement Before you ever do that, use your insight, step back. Who's gonna be at that meeting? What department are they with? What is their goal? What do they want to happen, and why? Can you anticipate the things that they may push back against? And if they do, what is your response to that? All of these things, all of this insight that you are building, is so that inevitably and eventually, that insight will start to become a habit. It's not now, but it should be. And the more you do that and use that, the more it will be, and correctly.

Right. Now, does insight also include professionals reaching out and gaining feedback on their performance, almost like assessments, right? So they're getting that true perception that other people have because A lot of people talk perception is reality, which it is. One's perception is one's reality. And therefore, to gain insight, you also need to get that hard truth, good, bad, or indifferent, from other people.

I love how you said hard truth. A lot of people, when they get to a certain level in the organization, they become yes people. They ask you, but they really only want you to say what they want you to say. Right. And it's the person who is being themselves and is standing on their own influence. I want you to like me and I want you to support me, but the bottom line is I have to be myself. And if you're going to ask me what my opinion is, then I'm going to ask you if that's truly what you want. Because if so, I'm not going to be rude, I'm not going to be mean. I am going to be honest, right? And if I had one wish, if someone said, give me some words that describe Barb Teicher, I would hope that one of them would be honesty, right? I may not always tell you what you want to hear, but I will be honest. So as people go up that ladder, I also think it's important not just to do, let's say for instance, a 360 instrument. And if folks aren't aware of what that is, that means you give a survey to the people that you work with, to the people that work for you, and to the people that you work for. So it gives a 360-degree view of their opinion of your work and your style, etc. But a lot of that can come down to personality. What do they think of my personality, right? Another thing that I would suggest would be look at your results. I'm not saying they all have to be positive, but if they weren't, then is there a reason for that? And then that reason, was there something you could have done about it? So yes, my suggestion is, as you move up the ladder, you have to continue to focus down the ladder. I mean by that, and it's going to sound kind of cheesy or whatever, but I'm sure you've heard of this servant leadership thing, right?

Right.

I truly feel that for me or anyone to get where they want to go, my priority is to help the people that report to me get where they want to go, because that only reflects on you, right? Right, right. And my job as a manager is to develop my people out of my own job.

Yes. Yeah.

So that if I left tomorrow, it would be seamless.

I love that. I absolutely love that insight, influence, and impact.

That's, that's it.

That's awesome. So you mentioned assumptions earlier. Can you elaborate on what are the assumptions too many individuals are making that is causing them to not get promoted, to not move forward and achieve their goals? What are those assumptions?

I think a lot of those assumptions have to do about ourselves. The assumption of they're not going to listen to me, they probably won't listen to me, or I know they'll listen to me. Right. I think both of those are equally as dangerous.

Yeah, they are. Yes, they are.

I also, I also feel some of the assumptions that can be dangerous are negativity. This isn't going to work. We tried this a couple of years ago. It's a new day and age. It's post-COVID. It's, you know, fill in the blank, whatever it is. Right. I had someone say to me once, well, Barb, I see the glass as half full, but they see it as half empty and there's nothing I can do about that. Yes, there is. Fill up the glass. Right. Why do we always start from a point of dissension instead of commonality? So to go back to what you asked about the assumptions, you may be assuming that you have to fit a square peg in a round hole. For instance, I do a lot of executive coaching, and one of the things that I share with people is if there is not an opportunity for you to move to the next step, whatever you think the next step should be, then what is your influence like? And I have helped so many people put together a proposal for a new position. And I say to them, what is it you want to do? Well, I like this about this. I like that about that. And okay, well, let's talk about this and to create your nirvana of what you would love to do. What's the worst that can happen? They come back and say, oh, we can't do that. Okay. Can you help me understand why? Now, a lot of times bigger corporations, they have bandings. And that's true. In order to change that and add something, it takes an act of Congress, right? That might be a bad analogy, but you know what I'm saying? Yeah. And so you don't know unless you try, but use your insight as you're putting these together to make your proposal.

Yeah, no, I love that. And yes, we could talk for a long time on that subject in itself. Yes, because I think it's so powerful and such an unused, untapped strategy for individuals.

I agree.

What have you seen, if anything, to be— and I hate to lean on the negative, but I really want to get across to those listening and watching the damage that they might be doing to themselves. And if they don't have the insight to what that is that they could have in all aspects of their life, because their work affects every aspect.

Right? All, all aspects of their life. I will answer that this way, and, and my book goes into a lot more detail, but I'm going to do just kind of a high-level thing. A lot of times that comes down to personalities and communication. So, for instance, let's say I'm the kind of person that I love to talk with people and, "How are you doing?" And to me, what I'm doing is building relationships when I do that. But I go into someone else's office and I go, "Hi, how you doing?" And they say, "Fine, what do you want?" Well, to me, I got person to dirtbag, right? But to them, it's, you know, "I have things to do. I need to get them done. I'm not trying to be rude, but I really don't care what you did over the weekend. What do you need?" There's nothing wrong with either of these. The challenge is using your insight. You need to step back. There's a grid in my book that talks about all these different characteristics for people that I'm sure will ring true. If I am the outgoing, friendships matter, I love to build relationships, but my director is someone who is very focused, very analytical, very numbers-oriented, then if I want to get his or her attention when I go in there, I need to go in, ask my question, and leave. Hi Dave, I'm wondering, are you going to the meeting at 2 o'clock this afternoon, and do you need me to make an agenda for that? Hi Barb, are you going to the meeting this afternoon? Do you want me to bring that proposal? Thanks. And leave. Right. It's not wrong to say things to them. I don't mean it that way. But if you want to make a relationship with these people, it has to unfortunately be on their terms. If I may, do I have a minute to tell another story?

Yeah, absolutely.

Right. Absolutely. My husband and I this summer will have been married 30 years. So I keep trying to tell him how lucky he is. I don't know if he's— Yeah.

He is very lucky.

Yeah, that's right, Bernadette, you tell him. But when we were first married and back from the honeymoon, it was our first day back at work. And I decided I was going to call him and just tell him I missed him and see how he's doing. Now, my husband works for a sports entertainment company, but at the time he worked for a newspaper in sports. Anyway, interviews, etc. So I called and I'm expecting, you know, words of love. And here's how this conversation goes. Phone rings, feel the butterflies. Hi, it's me. Hi, what do you need? What do I need? I don't need anything. I I just wanted to see how your day's going. Oh, it's going fine. Talk to you tonight. Click. So when I got home, I gave him a little feedback. Yeah, we all know what that means. And I shared with him it hurt my feelings, and he apologized. And he said, oh, I didn't mean to hurt your feelings. But when I'm at work, I'm, you know, on deadline, and I'm, you know, focused, and I've got to get people before they leave. And he said, "I'm so sorry, I really don't have time to do that." So, the next time I called, instead of thinking like me, which is what I'd done the first time, I thought like him. And I had to ask him a couple things. So, here's how that conversation went. "Hello?" "Hi, it's me. Hey, I need to ask you 3 things. Thing 1, thing 2, and thing 3." "Oh, yeah. Answer 1, answer 2, answer 3." "Hi, you doing? How's your day?" Now, do you really think he cared how my day was? No. But the key is that we were both trying to think like the other person. That is what I'm suggesting that the listeners do. Think like the other person. Will they be hurt if you don't ask them how their grandkids are? Or are they going to say to you, "Get out," you know, if you just go in and start talking? So, you need to know and anticipate and use your insight to know how to build these relationships. It doesn't mean those people that are get 'em in, get 'em on, get 'em out are rude or mean. That's just their personality. And because it's indifferent, I mean, because it's different than yours, we don't think like that. And therein lies the problem.

Yes. Right. Well, you probably heard the term, what's in it for them? And so, yeah, that's what I picked up on based on that. I love that because we do have to pause, take time, have the insight to actually say, what do they need in order for me to be successful? Because if we can adapt to them, right, then we're going to be successful. So talking about the results or the impact, it would be that they can get what they want, right?

Adapt is a great word, Bernadette. That is a great word. A lot of times, because we're focused on me, It's got to be the focus is on we, and we need to adapt so that we are approaching things in the most positive way. Not, not just selfishly to build influence or whatever the case may be, but to move forward. Because bottom line, at the end of the day, whoever you are, if you're working for the same company, you shouldn't be going for the same goals. I mean, we all want to reach the same thing. We all want You know, ROI, we all want increased revenue, etc., etc., etc., right? Even though we may go about differently how to get there.

I love that, love that, love that. Ending it there. I have her book. Her book is It's How You Say It, and you can get it on Amazon. You could just Google it and you'll find it very easily because I think— and we could have another whole episode on just that subject in itself.

Yourself.

And so stay tuned, we might have Barbara back.

I love it.

Yes, because it is a critical subject matter and a skill set to learn if you want to propel yourself, as Barbara says. So definitely go to the tiny link below, which is tiny.cc/itshowyousayitbook, and check out her book there, or just go to Amazon and Google it and you'll find it. But it's a great book for yourself as well as you might want to share it. Buy some, buy several and share it around. Yes. But I'm so thankful and thankful, thankful, thankful for you and this conversation. It's been absolutely fantastic.

My pleasure. Yeah, my pleasure.

I appreciate it. And like I said, we might just have her back to talk about communication because it is how you say it.

It is. It is. It is.

All right, everyone, that was fantastic, was it not? I mean, Barbara is a powerhouse leader, and that's what we're all about here in Ball of Fire Coaching as well as with the Shedding the Corporate Bitch Show. So let me summarize a couple of things because I want you to be able to then go back also and really pay attention to it. Okay. So those 3 things that are going to help propel forward is insight, influence, and impact. And definitely understand the assumptions you might be making that are not working for you. Also, she talked about POP. I love that. The power of your presence. And of course, that's going to have direct alignment to insight, influence, and impact. And then of course, what she just talked about in regards to just what you should and shouldn't be doing to really understand what it takes to be successful. And let me know what questions you might have beyond our subjects today. When it comes to becoming a powerhouse leader. You can even book a call with me at coachmebernadette.com/discoverycall and visit sheddingthecorporatebitch.com and leave your comments, or go to Apple Podcasts or YouTube and leave your questions, comments, or reviews and likes so other powerhouse women just like you can find the show. Thanks for joining me this week, and be sure to check out all of our episodes at sheddingthecorporatebitch.com. Talk to you soon.

Bye!