Shed the Bias of Mars/Venus Fallacy with Christoffel Sneijders

What do you know about Men Are from Mars, Women Are from Venus philosophy? Some would say the book of the same name published in the '90s was based on pop psychology, but it did get men and women thinking about the unique male and female traits that have created strong biases amongst many professionals and how those biases still influence how companies lead today. Our guest, Christofelle Schnider of 3 Brains Academy, will help us to learn how to deal with those traditional masculine people and organizations that exist today that you might be part of. Also, what are their needs and of those type of companies and how do you need to act in order to work in them very successfully? How to break through your own biases of masculine and feminine traits and what the three brains are that you already possess that you aren't maximizing on the job. Lastly, how to align those three brains to ensure that you can achieve your goals and objectives. This is going to be a powerful conversation that will change your thinking about the biases that could be holding you back from achieving your goals and how you can dramatically change and shift from those biases. Stay tuned. Welcome, welcome, welcome to Shading the Corporate Bitch. The podcast that transforms female corporate executives into powerhouse leaders by showing them how to shed the challenges and overwhelm along with any fear, insecurity, self-doubt, and negativity holding them back. I'm your host, Bernadette Boas of Ball of Fire Coaching, bringing you powerhouse discussions each week to share tips, advice, and sometimes tough love so you create the riches in your work and life you deserve. Christophe, how are you? So nice to see you. How are you?

I'm doing great. As you know, I'm sitting in the middle of Madrid, Spain, and that's one of the best places to be, I can tell you.

So it just brings up some romantic ideas of like water and great music and great food.

Yeah, all of them above.

Since we're on that, and before we jump into this fascinating discussion about masculine and feminine traits and whatnot. Tell us a little bit about you.

Me, um, as you can hear, I'm Dutch, born and raised in Amsterdam. So that is the beautiful sin city where everything is allowed and nothing is allowed in the same moment. Lived in Australia for 9 years, live now in the beautiful Madrid.

Nice.

Because I love to follow passion and love to follow sun. Right. And let's say, and who's me? If you ask who's me, say I have an extreme passion, say, for life. So that's also amazing if you live in Madrid because Madrid has, the city of Madrid has 10,000 coffee shops slash bars slash restaurants. 10,000. Just imagine that if you had 10,000 in Atlanta because you have some of the same city size.

Right, right. Oh, that is crazy. Yes, I'd be out there taste testing all the way through the city for sure. Although my waistline would not appreciate that.

No, no, I know that. That's why I have a beautiful border collie. So I have to walk a lot. So at least keep this little bit there.

Yes, absolutely. No, I totally— and trust me, I have my own puppy sitting right here by my side. So I'm a puppy fanatic. So let's get into this conversation. We're going to be talking about how basically to shed the biases that are out there around the Mars and Venus fallacy. First off, help us go back in time to when Mars and Venus, the book and the philosophy, was, you know, kind of very prevalent. Tell us how you got into this subject matter as far as your own work and what you mean by the fallacy of it.

Of course, like everybody almost, it was one of the most popular books. I bought it and started thinking, oh, this is how it is. In that time, A little bit later I became also an executive coach, executive trainer, learned a lot about behavior and how we change things, transactional analysis, all those kind of things. And I left it somewhere. And during my life I came aware when I became a therapist, when I moved to Australia also and started working with addictions, abuse, sexual abuse, physical abuse, suicidal issues, but of course weight loss and smoking, also popular things. I started to think from it is so hard to change people, what's happening. And then I came aware that we had three brains and how does it relate back to the book? Because in that moment I started to become aware and already knew that as a coach trainer, we defined the rules so much. Yeah, you are female, I'm a male, we're different and you need male traits to become a CEO and female traits are eeky. And always thought if you like to have gender equality, that's That doesn't work, right? Because research shows most females are actually better leaders than men. And that's real, is of course, is that, that, that's nothing new for you. Guys are thinking, why? Now ask my three brains and I came aware actually that besides our reproductive system, we have the same biological setup. The only thing is that in our socialization we get totally split in different things, eh? Yes. I just, I just was walking with my dog outside and One of the neighbors has a new little kid, 1 month old. So I'm there, of course, looking, and I say, uh, niño, niña, boy, girl. And she says to me, look, and it has a pink shirt on, meaning it's a girl. And I thought, it makes totally sense. But right away in that moment, you start labeling kids should be like this. Yes, and it, of course, it makes sense, but also not sense. When you see toddlers play in the kindergarten, they're all the same. They play all with Ken and with Barbie and with toys and with everything, right? Right. But then our educational parents and teachers are saying, no, no, no, no, that's not for girls, that's not for boys. And before you know, we start believing it. Now, so that's where I came. If you think about the fallacy, when I say Martian Feminist Fallacy, because actually it makes you and me different. And if we are— if you start believing we're different, it makes sense we have issues having relationships or work together or see you as a leader or something else, because you're different, right? And this biologically, scientifically not true. And that's why it was a fallacy, because it's just, in my words, a hoax. But everybody believes because it's so easy. Yeah.

Yes. Why do you think back in the '90s when the book, you know, Men Are from Venus and Women Are from Mars, why do you think it was so popular and kind of went viral, you know, using today's terms, went viral in both life, but more importantly in the business environment? Why was that?

In my opinion, yes, in my opinion, it was extremely good, well-written, right? It is easily digestible. And it gives extremely beautiful generalizations how we are. Men go in their cave, females start to talk. And so it was easy and we had, and it created a lot of excuses why we were what we were.

There we go.

Because if I was now say the leader, I'm a male, I'm the leader and I just like, I don't like to communicate and I close my door of my office, people say, ah, he's back in his Mars or Venus habit. And it is an excuse, right? So for me, there's also an excuse, yeah, if I was a leader, to do that behavior and actually get away with it. Because on that moment, I don't have accountability about my behavior because this is who I am.

Yeah, this is who people are telling me I am, right?

Yes, it is. Yeah, but I start believing and everyone start believing that we are like we are. Because how many people did not say, oh, but this is because I'm a male? How many of those Male people that you ever saw, so I call them male people, and they just say, but you know, I'm just a male, that's why it is. And that must be then an excuse for all their horrible behavior, and you as a female just have to accept it.

However, however, I will, you know, not that I want to come down on women at all, however, did you find it all, especially over the last 30 years, women have kind of leaned on and used those stereotypes, those fallacies, as also an excuse not to necessarily lean in or, or take risks and step forward because they feel comfortable in that role.

Of course, I talk about the male because I'm one, and so it's easy to talk about myself. Then right away, put it up, talk about you, right? But both sides took it as a beautiful, say, excuse, ruling system, and how it is. And of course I do not say it's a bad book because a lot of explanations, but it also gives a lot of benefits if we are, as they say, right? So if you look through the book, it has beautiful insight. And I once communicated with John Gray, and I know it's not his ultimate purpose to make us different biologically, but it makes it easier to explain it like that. Yeah, having said that, it's just adding on behavioral, social, cultural, social dimensions on it. And say, this is who we are, instead of looking at biology.

So, and beyond biology too, would you agree that both male and female also possess both masculine and feminine traits, and therefore that's what breaks down the fallacy?

Absolutely, yeah. Without going into LGBTQRS, whatever kind of, of letters we have for those, every male is born with a heart. With a gut and with a head, just like every female has a head, a heart, and a gut. The only thing is, and biologically they don't have a difference in the number of, say, let's call it brain cells. How many? 100 billion here, 100,000 there, 500 million there. The only thing is, just like a muscle, we can train them. So just imagine that you are always educated. You have to be sweet, you have to put on your makeup, your hair should be okay, By the way, it's not allowed to get angry. You train your heart brain much more. If I get, on the other hand, educated, you know, you have to be strong, you don't cry, you just bite through, come on, you make it happen, you train your gut brain. And everything we train becomes stronger. So it's easy that it happens like that, right? But if you look at sports now, luckily female soccer is also really getting its traction. Those are still females but show all the winning behavior. Lisa, if you ever watch Venus playing tennis and how she really goes for every ball and she will kick your ass if she—

Right, she will.

You would say that we call it that, oh, that's male behavior. No, it's gut brain behavior because the gut wants to win, likes to— the gut brain does not take survivors. The gut brain says it's me or you, I win. The only thing is those females were allowed to train us and to go more in it so that we become better in it.

Right, right. Okay. So, so what you're saying too is it's not about Mars or Venus or traits and qualities. It's more about three brains that you always talk about, which you just said, head and gut.

I always ask this question to people and say, which brain is the most important? And most people point here because that's how we are educated. Where were you connected? Not in the movie Avatar or, or in The Matrix. Where were you connected with your mama? Could you find me the spot on your body? And where is it? Your belly button.

Yeah, yeah.

I said, so would it make sense to connect your body with the most important thing that keeps you alive? Yes, that's your gut system, because without your gut system you don't survive. Your gut system is a unique entity that we are all born with, and then Every living creature on this earth, there's some animals, but also say sea sponges and all this kind of stuff, have a digestive system. We are all coming from a digestive system. The only thing is we have a head, arms, and legs. And you would see, although some people still look at those sea creatures, I would say, but that's not our, that's not the point.

Yeah. Yeah. So it is, so it's not gender specific as the fact that we have a head, heart, and gut. It's a matter of then how we are trained and how we are kind of molded, even from society's perspective, and then how we deal with it internally that then determines, you know, kind of where we're spending most of our time living in, so to speak.

But there's, let's say, in my book, I found the research about, say, two tribes that are genetically wider close to each other. Okay, so the, and the funny part is, in one tribe, it's a male-dominant tribe, so males are seen as superior and females don't, are not educated, etc., etc. So when they're adults, males rule the world. In the other part, it's a female-dominated culture, so females have the power, decide, become the leaders, etc. And if you then start doing the test, intelligence and how they act and how they behave, You see actually that how they are socialized, they behave, and there is no biological difference in that part. So it shows research-wise, hey, it works. If we socialize like this, we get this outcome. When we socialize like this, we get that outcome, right?

So is your work also centered around educating and then advocating to leaders in the business world, for instance, kind of to work on goals and objectives and training and development that focus on those three brains, as opposed to how we traditionally have kind of established what we should be working, developing, and coaching on?

Absolutely. Yeah. As I say, I'm an executive coach. MCC coach means I'm the highest level of coaching requirements. Besides a therapist. So I train coaches, train leaders, and for me, I will say I don't train one brain, I train how can you access three brains, right? Why is it important? Because just imagine I'm educated, I use myself in a gut brain. I'm a male, I'm a gut brain person, I'm strong. Then I ask most times, and I use my head after my MBA, and I use less my heart because it's never trained. Then the only thing I ask those leaders is just imagine they are leaders. You would have two muscles, your bicep and tricep. Would it make sense only to train your bicep? Definitely. No, no, it doesn't make sense. You have to train them counterwise, otherwise it don't work. Does it make sense that you only train two of your three brains? And right away, like, uh, no, but what do you mean? And on that moment, I hook them because they think, shit, I'm also— excuse my French— I'm only using two of my three wisdom centers. And on that moment they're willing to train that one. And I have the same actually opposite for females, but actually I talk about which person is more head brain dominant. So which brains are, in my words, silent and should be trained. Because if you use all three of them, it makes sense. Your gut brain says, I will succeed. Your heart brain says, by the way, I stay connected with my environment and take care of everybody, say, on board. And my head says, okay, let's do the logical and let's do it strategically. So I need them all three.

Right, right. Do you need all three equally, or is it just the fact that you need to ensure that all three are existing, just not necessarily equally?

No, no, it's actually because every situation is different. If I would walk in the street, I see five people who are a little bit drunk and say, hey, we're going to beat up that white guy, then my gut brain takes over and I only listen to my gut brain. Run, run, Forrest, run, like Forrest Gump. The moment I see, say, somebody falling off his bike, then my heart brain steps in and says, how can I help you? And when somebody says, hey, can you guide me the way in Madrid because I'm totally lost here? What sometimes makes sense. Then my head brain steps in and says, yes, let me show you Google and you go there, there, there, there. So it's also situational how you step them in. Let's say if I make a decision, say I make a decision of, let's say, buying a car. Or doing a new project in the business world, then you have to think, okay, what's the objective logically? My gut brain would say, okay, I like to succeed. What do I need to do to succeed? What did I need to do to succeed? And who do I need for that? Those are really need questions. And then the heart brain says, okay, so if you need those people, how do you engage them that they really are willing to work for you the next year and that they're bought off in that project? And you keep them engaged and happy instead of they right away run away because they're burned out. So in that moment you need your three brains to make a decision. And of course you listen to them and based on those three you make some more decision. And use Mohsen's metaphor, it's almost like having three wise men in your room and saying, hey, or three wise women in your room, whatever you like to say. But, and then say, okay, dear people, I have an objectives, I have something to achieve. What are your advices? And then the head says, do this, this is the most logical thing. The heart says, do this because it makes everybody happy. And the gut would say, hey, by the way, do it like this because then you win. And based on those 3 advices, okay, how can we make it one?

I love that.

And that's what I train to coaches and people, because if you do that, we can still make wrong decisions at the end, but you never regret it because you use all your wisdom. How many times did you in your life, or I in my life, said, oh, I should have listened to my gut feeling, oh, I should have thought this a little bit more through? Those things don't happen then anymore. So it's not a guarantee of success, it's a guarantee you don't regret your decision, and that's a huge difference.

Yeah, that's why I love when you use the term wisdom centers. I mean, I like the 3 brain idea, but at the same time I can hear that Well, men would relate to, you know, brains.

Yeah.

But at the same time, you tell them you have 3 wisdom centers, what do you think they are? It would be very curious to hear their responses to that.

Most say more male dominant people. So gut brain, of course, if you talk about male, it's more gut brain, head brain dominant leadership. When you say that and they say wisdom centers, you see something, a question mark coming up and they start thinking, Should I ask a question and be vulnerable, or should I just ignore this question and just go on? And you see that little, uh-uh, and I say, that uh-uh, is that the question you swallowed? And they say, yes. Okay, what would be the question? Because the gut brain doesn't dare to be vulnerable, right? Because if you show vulnerability, I'm depending on you. So the gut brain doesn't like to show, I don't know. But the moment they know, then something like they said, okay, now it makes sense. And especially now in companies where after the Zoom world that people have issues with working either from home or from the office, engagement is getting lower. And I ask sometimes leaders, just imagine we skip all the logic, okay, and we skip all your objectives you have to achieve and would just follow your heart. What would you do? And say, that's not logical. I said, that's what I said, don't think about logic. And I said, okay, if I would just follow my heart, Kris, then I would do this. I said, okay, write it down, write it down. And I said, okay, now based on what you said before, and you had to combine those two, what will happen? And 9 out of 10, they come over here, oh, I see something I missed. Oh, now I know this, I would have done this. And on that moment you see them integrating. And then the Often they always say, Chris, explain me one thing. That is not the question that comes up. Why did nobody ever told me that we have three wisdom centers? And I say, now, because one, I came aware of it actually 6 years ago. So before that, I was also talking about other kind of stuff. And say, secondly, although scientifically already proven more than 30 years, that secondly, every psychologist, almost business coach, therapeutical thing. MBAs are still taught the old way, you say. And the moment they come aware we have three brains, all the psychological and therapeutical and also coaching models are almost turned around. And then you have massive business that turns around. By the way, don't think about the medical world, but just think about the medical world that we have three brains, that actually most diseases happen by misalignment of the brain, that only follow one brain. Then the pharmaceutical model also goes a little bit, eh, now. And we all know you cannot beat those people. They rule the world somewhere.

Right.

So that's okay. Just one thing, eh, just because it's also my passion, eh, I don't know if you ever heard of Gabor Maté, and he wrote a book, When the Body Says No. That is actually when people are extremely heart-brain dominant. So always think about everybody else. They're prone to have, say, chronic diseases or other kind of thing. And why is that? Because your gut brain, as you know, your gut center is 90% of your immune system. So if you never listen to that, your immune system gets deteriorated.

Right.

So massive heart brain people have more of those issues. Wow. So if you think about burnout and all those kind of stuff, right, it's actually training your three brains to stay healthy in a company.

Yeah. So how do you help those very traditional, old-school type of companies and even forget like the whole company, right? That's like the Titanic, trying to turn the Titanic around before it hits the iceberg. But even like the leaders, what does it really take for them to embody this whole thing and to actually our topic being shedding their biases? When it comes to the Mars and Venus that most of the leaders today are familiar with in some way, shape, or form?

Yeah, it depends how I do it. If it's a coaching or a training, sometimes in a training is when I have a board, say a board, a group of board members. And I say, dear people, woman, female, and everybody else, just imagine you had some objectives for next year on the board and you decided all your vision, this strategic plan. And I say, this side of the room is, I don't believe any of it, I'm not going forward with it. That part of the room is, you know, 100%, I'm in. And I say, just think logically and walk with your feet and show me where you end. And then most people end up somewhere more than halfway the room, somewhere then if you have a 1 to 10 scale on 7 or 8, because logically it makes sense. And I say, okay, dear people, now go back shake yourself out, take a deep breath, close your eyes, just breathe into your, to your chest. Okay, you're there. Uh, think about your partner, your kids, and everything you love. Okay. And now just imagine you would just follow your heart and based on the objectives you wrote down, you would follow your heart. How much would you then engage with this? And you see 9 out of 10 people going less.

Yeah, absolutely.

And they don't, a lot of them don't even hit the 5 mark.. And I just say, okay, what's happening here? And you see everybody a little bit with a puzzled idea. What happened here? And some of them asked, Chris, what did you do? I said, I didn't do anything. I didn't walk. But on that moment, they have a realization. We have a different kind of yes or no to that. And they ask me, Chris, what's happening? I said, now the moment you follow logic, you like to follow because you made a logical decision. But the moment you follow your passion, and in my words, your heart, you come aware actually you don't like to do it.

Yeah.

And in that moment they say, okay, how are you going to help us, Christian? Now that, that's for that we still have 2 days to get it done. I said, but I can almost promise you after 2 days the whole company will kiss your feet of happiness that you made this decision, whatever your decision is.

In 2 days I, I have a but.

This behavior, excuse me, after you had a physical Discomfort is a beautiful example of a heart-brained person who excuse for the fact that she has an issue. Don't excuse you for the fact that you have to cough.

Right.

But this, this is a sign that for me, your heart-brain is really well developed and maybe a little bit developed too much. Because if you cough, you don't have to say sorry for that. Come on. I feel sorry for you. You had to say, wow, okay, I'm there. Whatever you like to say. But of course it's polite, but doesn't need to.

Yeah, I love that. I love that because I will say, and I'm going to keep this part in even through my hacking, use it as an example because I'll be honest with you, Chris, for decades I was probably more head brain than heart. But over the last 10 years have kind of shifted very much to the heart. I've always been a gut person, a gut and a head, and I've I've embedded the heart. But the question that I had for you was, so you go in for these several days working with these leaders and getting them to have their aha moments. And you made a comment like, there are people going to thank them following that. But what do you have them do? And how do they do it to where then it does get ingrained and not just kind of walked away and in 2 weeks it goes back to the way it was.

Actually, how do we learn it? Of course we can talk about the whole neuroscience dopamine release and blah blah blah blah blah blah. But you learn, this one learns when it's really necessary. But your heart and your gut brain learn really in 1 second if they become aware this is essential for my survival. So what we do, and I do it also in coaching, is actually to create a positive event like that walk there that they never forget because I just showed you that walk. But on that moment is just asking the right question that really opens their eyes and that they don't remember. And it could be something like, hey, dear CEO, your logical brain said that you had a 9 in this thing and almost a 10. The only thing it is almost a 10 because it was still not on paper. Now you follow your heart, you're on a 5. So are you not really lying to yourself? And I know it's a huge confrontation, and they look at me, how do you mean I'm lying to myself? I said, no, because I see totally different answers. So it's almost like you're schizophrenic. That they don't like me on that moment, but they never forget it. And on that moment, they know what happened. By the way, I always connect with the CEO upfront that sometimes I confront them as an example because I know if you set the example, everybody will follow you. And they always say— and if they say yes and they know it, then later on they said— sometimes later on we have a drink together. Chris, did you really have to hit me so hard? I said, I said, just ask your people. And then he says, hey guys, girls, how did you like that Chris really kicked my balls? And they say, you know, this is a moment I never forget. And on that moment, they know, they never forget. And then later when he says, Chris, I have to thank you, and not I want to thank you, I have to thank you because you did actually an amazing job, although you're sometimes really annoying.

That means you're doing a good job.

Yes, that's it. As in the coaching, I do it differently, push it short, but it is actually creating a moment of really high impactful emotional event that they don't remember, because then the heart and the gut say now should stay awake. When something happens, that's there.

I love that. I love that.

I say, but of course it needs preparation and all those kind of things because it's not there to kick somebody, but to show them, hey, something is happening. And the funny part is, most CEOs, you become CEO because most times, yeah, you know how to put your, your self-interest in, you know how to win. They say, hey, I help you to win even more, but I need you sometimes to kick your ass. Is that allowed? And a lot of them, they did sports. Said, Chris, no pain, no gain. I said, I said, I will keep you to those words.

Right, right. No worries. I'll give you a lot of pain. I'll give you a lot of pain. So tell us how all of this ties into your latest book, all around relationships.

Why I wrote this book is one reason, because I want to make it really easy for everybody to step in. Everybody has a relationship, eh, if it's now with her dog, with her partner, with her parents, with her colleagues. So I thought I will make a book, although the book is written more in a personal sentence, but okay, how does it work on an easy way? What are actually traits of head, heart, and gut people, if you would call them like that, who have dominance in one of those brains? And why should you actually be aware of one of those dominances because it could deteriorate your relationship. Besides giving examples how you could now see it, but also how you could deal with it, what are, say, the indicators that they have. There's one idea that people come aware, okay, you know, it's better to this word. And why is that? Also, in the Western world, 50% of the marriages have a breakup, and in many of those marriages there are kids, and I'm one of those. And so, and kids are most times collateral damage of two parents who don't like each other anymore. Now what I hope is that people before they start reproducing at least come aware, is this perfect partner for me? And there is no perfect partner, but if they have a relationship, how can we make it work? What are the signals I should be aware of? And my partner is more head brain dominant, I'm more heart brain gut brain dominant. Also she says gut brain heart brain dominant. Heart brain, gut brain dominance means I like to do things quick and easy and whatever. A head brain person is famous for let's think it over. So if you like to tease a head brain person, say be spontaneous, give me your first answer, they really would hate you.

They'll freak out.

Yeah, they freak out. So in our relationship, we had to learn, and I had to learn, if I ask her question, I should not push her Okay, let's go. Right. I say, shall we go in 5 minutes? I have to wait the answer. And after the answer, I know, okay, we can do it. Because my schedule would say, right, if you ask me, shall we go? That's okay. I just turn off the computer. Let's go.

Right.

Or I say no. So it's learning how to communicate with each other because most relationships besides love fail also because we don't communicate or we don't understand each other. And that's on a personal level, but of course also in a business level. But I wrote for personal level because there's so much happening. That's why I also include in the book, say, a section about kids. From, in my opinion, how do you raise kids? Because kids have a different kind of brain development, so you should communicate and be different with them. A child of 5, you're not going to ask, what do you want? Because they don't know cause and effect analysis. Cause and effect analysis, they learn when they are 7. Sure, they don't know what happens next week. So if you don't know that as a parent, you're doing with all your best intentions actually the wrong thing. That's why I wrote the book.

And I love that. I love that. All right. So get his book, Relationships: Which Brain Is Talking? You can go to tiny.cc/christoffelsbook, and we'll make sure that that's posted on all of our posts and messages that go out over the next several weeks. What is one last a tip that leaders can be taking right now to kind of really understand their 3 brains, their wisdom centers, and to really kind of influence how they then kind of go out and go out into the world and into their workplace?

Actually, I always ask them, ask yourself 3 questions, yeah? What is logical to do? Say I would follow my logic, what would I do? Say I would follow my heart, what would I do? Say I would follow my gut instinct, what would I do? And if you ask those 3 questions or they get 3 answers, or maybe 1 or 2 because some of them don't respond, and that moment to say if you have 3 answers, make it 1. Hear 1 or 2 of the answers and really start focusing. Hey, I don't get one of my wisdom center, whatever wisdom center is, Okay, let's really dive into that because probably if that's silent, then later on it will actually say, I told you so. And everybody can do that, right? You don't need an executive coach for you or me for that. It's just ask yourself 3 questions.

Yeah.

Okay.

Perfect. Perfect. Thank you so much. You know, learn more about Christophe and all the work that he does at 3brainsacademy.com. Be sure to pick up his book at christophe Christopher's book, well tiny.cc/christophelsbook. And, uh, Christopher, this has been great. I so appreciate you taking the time. It's actually been fascinating and a whole new concept that we're bringing to the Shedding the Bitch community.

And the last words for all your females, eh? Don't become masculine, just start listening to your gut brain.

Yes. Yes. I love that. I love that. Thank you so much. It's been fascinating and a lot of fun to learn about all three brains and what I haven't been using. Thank you so much, Christophe. What a fun and powerhouse conversation with Christophe. Christophe Schneiders of 3 Brains Academy talked about not only how to shed the biases that we still hold on today when it comes to the men are from Mars and women are from Venus philosophy, or in his words, fallacy, even a hoax. And instead, we really talked about how to Optimize and Align the Three Brains that regardless of gender, regardless of biology, we all possess. And the three brains being the head, the heart, and the gut. So we went into great detail about how each and every one of us need to leverage those three brains in order to be successful and in order to really accomplish what it is that we're working toward. He also talked to us about how to deal with those companies, more traditional masculine companies that still exist today and that you might be a part of. And maybe you're more heart and gut than you are brain. And therefore, what do you need to do in order to adjust to the particular type of culture that you're working within? He talked about the fact that people will change once they really understand, or once they learn something that was so profound that they'll never forget it. So have you ever had that experience that you kind of had an aha moment or learned an aha concept or teaching or skill and you were never able to move beyond it? You were never going to go backwards. You were only going to be leveraging and optimizing it as you moved forward. Well, That is how Christoph Guttentag and the work that he does around Three Brains Academy get leaders that are, that are traditionally masculine to shift into a place where they're leveraging both their masculine and feminine traits. And more importantly, they're recognizing that it has nothing to do with a woman or a man, but more so the three brains of the head, heart, and gut. And then lastly, I really wanted to hear about his book, Relationships: Which Brain Is Talking? Because he kind of ties in our personal relationships while at the same time really helping us to see how any of those concepts, any of those stories, anything that he provides in his, his book can also be applied to in our workplace. And so this whole idea of the three brains, the head, the heart, and the gut, and really working a personal and professional development plan around leveraging and optimizing those three brains, what wisdom centers, as he calls them, I just think is just fantastic. It's just a whole new slant on really trying to appreciate the fact that we all have masculine and feminine traits and we all just need to recognize which of those traits are more dominant and more submissive. And then those that we want to elevate, we then understand what those are and which ones those are. And we work toward those. And then also understanding which ones are our strengths, are our power, and making sure that we're leveraging and optimizing them in the situations that call for it. So I thoroughly enjoyed this conversation with Christophe, and, uh, you can always learn more about him at 3brainsacademy.com. Book a call with me should you or your team members be struggling in any way, shape, or form to really understand how to leverage each other's strengths and even areas of improvement so you can maximize the engagement, the effectiveness, the collaboration, the productivity of all members of the team in order for everyone to accomplish their goals and objectives. Simply go to coachmebernadette.com/discoverycall and let's talk through exactly what it is that you're dealing with. What is it that you see might be opportunities? And let's lay out a plan with tips and strategies specific to you and your team in order to help you move forward in building that powerhouse team. All right. So I am thrilled that you were here with us this week and look forward to having you right back here for another episode of Shedding the Corporate Bitch. Take care, everyone. Bye.