Shifting from Boss to Leader with Julia Becker Collins

Do you know the difference between being a boss and being a leader? Are you giving your people the tools, training, and even empathy that they need to be successful? And if you are already a leader, are you helping other managers to really thrive in their own people management positions? Welcome to today's episode of Shedding the Corporate Bitch. I'm Bernadette Boas of Ball of Fire Coaching, your host. And today with our guest, Julia Becker Collins, we're diving into a crucial transformation that every business manager needs to make. Shifting from boss to leader. It's not enough to just manage tasks and chase deadlines. You need to excel at leading, influencing, and communicating, and so much more to be a true leader. So this episode is packed with your powerful insights and actionable steps, including how you can empower your team by embracing servant leadership. Take responsibility for mentoring and nurturing and lead with empathy to build a more loyal, productive team. Lastly, learn the difference between leading with vision and simply managing tasks. So stay with us.

Welcome to Shedding the Corporate Bitch, the podcast that transforms today's managers into tomorrow's powerhouse leaders. Your host, Bernadette Boas, executive coach and author, brings you into a world where the corporate grind meets personal growth and success in each and every episode. With more than 25 years in corporate trenches, Bernadette's own journey from being dismissed as a tyrant boss to becoming a sought-after leadership coach and speaker illustrates the very essence of transformation that she now inspires in others with her tips, strategies, and stories. So if you're ready to shed the bitches of fear and insecurity, ditch the imposter syndrome, and step into the role of the powerhouse leader you were born to be, this podcast is for you. Let's do this.

Julia, how are you? So nice to see you.

Great to see you as well. Thank you so much for having me.

You are very welcome. I'm excited to talk to you, especially when it comes to shifting from boss to leader. And I have a number of questions in regards to just that in itself. But before we do, I love to share our guests with our viewers and listeners so they can get to know, like, trust, and potentially do with you. So tell us a little bit about Julia.

Sure. So I live outside of Boston. I've been here for about 20 years. I met my husband in college. Um, he is originally from the Boston area. And so here is where we live. I have a dog who I love. She's a rescue dog. She just turned 4. Her name is Ruth Bader Ginsburg. Um, I know it's a good one. And then I have a cat named Leslie Knope, which is a character from Parks and Rec. In my time away from work, I'm also a long-distance runner. I run ultramarathons, which are anything that's longer than a marathon. So I've done 100 miles, I've done 50 miles, 55K, et cetera. Primarily trail running. I also do CrossFit and I'm on a recent like kick of going to comedy shows. It's my new fun thing that I'm doing. So hello.

Oh, that's fun. Well, what you should do is a comedy class.

No, I wanna listen to other people talk. I talk all day.

This is true. We were just talking about that before we came on, that we both spend the day talking, and that's why my voice is extremely dry at the moment. My dumb comedy. That is awesome. Well, let me ask you around everything that you do, especially when it comes to those long distance, you know, marathons, you have to be very focused.

You have to be very.

Goal-oriented.

Yeah.

You have to be very accountable. It sounds like a lot of different attributes and skills that are required of a leader. And you talk about the fact that managers/bosses have to shift their approach from being just the boss to being a true leader. So help us understand what you mean by that.

Yeah. So I, I talk a lot about servant leadership as a leadership style, but also that people management is a skill and that it's often not trained or taught. Oftentimes people are promoted into middle management or lower management, suddenly have, they have people direct reporting to them, and that's just sort of the next phase of their career. But nobody sat down and was like, here's how you manage people effectively and efficiently. To motivate them, to excite them, et cetera. It's more just like, here's another part of what you have to do now. Good luck with it. But in order to create an environment where people actually enjoy coming to work— I know it's a radical concept— and they stay at the company for a long time, and they're really ambassadors for the brand, you need people that lead, not just that are your direct manager. That really inspire you to be the best version of yourself rather than either micromanaging you or handing you everything or doing it for you, et cetera. Leadership, specifically people management leadership, is a skill that needs to be honed and taught and continued to grow with professional development.

Servant leadership. Explain the servant leadership comment you made and then how the people management aspect of it kind of works.

Yeah. So servant leadership's a term that's kind of like out there in the organizational psychology space. I don't know if it was coined by Adam Grant, but it's definitely something he like preaches. He's an organizational psychologist. He's great. I recommend his books to everyone, especially if you're going into leadership. And one of the things he talks about that I talk about is really that when you are a servant leader, you work for your staff. They don't work for you. And what I mean by that is, yes, they obviously direct report to you, but your job as their leader is to help them, not take their job from them, not to do the work for them, but help them be the best version of themselves. So you don't tell them what to do, you inspire them how to do it. I usually push back and say, what do you think you should be doing here rather than asking me what you should be doing here? Sometimes it's really that people just need to feel like they have the authority to make those decisions. That you trust them, and getting the buy-in of that person. It might take a little bit more time than just telling them what to do, but 9 times out of 10, that's gonna help the person feel like they know what they're doing. They're excited about what they're doing. They are able to inspire other people, maybe the people that report to them, on how to do it better. And then the other part of that is really servant leadership sometimes comes down to a monetary portion of it. Where you pay yourself less. And when we talk about that at Vision Advertising, we're really serious about it. So during the pandemic, we had struggles just like a lot of other companies had struggles. And so I took an 80% pay cut so that my staff wouldn't get furloughed or laid off. We didn't lay or furlough anybody off except for me. And it was really trying to live the values that we talk about, that I look at the finances of the company and I pay the staff first. I'm gonna pay myself last. Right. And that is both true in the day-to-day, like I just explained in terms of actual finances, but also that you have to make sure your staff has what they need to be successful and feel empowered before you start thinking about yourself.

Now, that sounds a little bit tricky when it comes to corporate organizations versus a small business, or if you're running, or like you, a partner in a business where you can make those type of decisions. While in corporate with many of our managers that are listeners and viewers, they don't have the option to say, okay, don't pay me, pay my people. Even though they're also always confronted with structure issues, people issues, change, you know, organization changes. So apart from being able to say, "Let's not get paid so we don't have to lay anybody off," which is a common occurrence, what are other alternatives that they could be doing to, one, be— continue to be that servant leader and also to really ensure that they are putting their people first?

I absolutely understand this. My husband works for a very large company and he really tries to be a servant leader, but he doesn't have the control over the finances. Like I do, and they're a huge corporation, so he can't make those decisions like I can. But what he can do and what other middle managers at large corporations can do is you need to be checking in with your staff. Not, no, did you do this task? I'm, you know, right on top of you micromanaging you. But do you have what you need to succeed? Do you have what's going on in your life? Are you okay as a person? Unfortunately, one of the things that happens in corporate America is people are like, well, there should be, you know, work-life separation. And we talk about work-life balance, but really it's work-life integration. And that somebody's personal life absolutely changes how they are at work. Are you checking in with your staff to be like, hey, is your kid still sick? Are you, are you okay? Do you need anything? Just having them be supported as a person first before kind of a cog in the wheel, making them see Feel seen and heard is really important. And then being like, okay, so like talk to me about this project that you're working on and walk me through it. Do you have a good handle on it or do you need support? So you're not standing there being like, Jim, you have to get this thing done by this date. It's more like, what do you need? And you're starting your day with what do you need? How can I help my staff rather than your own list? I, so in the way that I manage the company and the way that I have always managed teams is I always have a to-do list every day and then whenever I get through, Whatever didn't happen goes to the next day. And at the top of my to-do list every morning is check in with the staff. So before I do anything else, I check in with the director who works for me. I check in with any of my other direct reports. If people are on vacation and I'm helping to cover management, how are you? Is your dog still sick? How are you doing? What can I do for you? What are you working on today? Just like getting a general lay of the land, right? It has been proven time and time again when you check in on people's personal lives and their, just their day-to-day feelings. When they start the day that way, they are more productive as employees.

Absolutely. Because they feel valued and important and cared for. Why is it such a challenge for managers? Because we're shifting them, right? We're wanting to shift them from bosses/managers to leaders. Why is it so hard for them to get away from that, just that to-do tactical list to being the people side, the servant side?

Yeah, so I think it's a lot of things, especially if you're in middle management, you feel like you're getting pulled in two directions, right? You're getting pulled from the bottom, the people that are reporting to you or the tasks, and you're getting pulled from the top, C-suite executives, whoever is saying like, here's the deadline I need. And so you feel like you can't win, you're moving back and forth. And so you're getting more tactical with what you're doing and you're thinking about the tasks.

And I get that.

I am a very hyperlogical, task-driven, I'm operations first. The joke in our office is if you wanna know if something looks pretty, don't ask Julia. She's gonna ask you if it works first. I totally understand that. And so my inclination, and I have said this to my staff, I'm very transparent about it. My inclination is to just go tactical first. I wanna know what's up. I wanna get through my task list. I wanna, et cetera. But it's an investment in the success of those tactics to start with the people. And so I often take a step back and go, okay, first thing, we're gonna check on people. And it has been a conscious effort of mine over 20-something years of doing this. Yeah. To like, instead of just sit down and dive into the emails or find the thing I thought about last night, to start with the people. And I think it's hard. Especially for middle managers, because you have that push and pull and you feel like, well, if I can get through a couple more items, I'll feel more accomplished, which is, I get that. I feel the same way oftentimes. But if you invest in the team first, they will be more willing to do more for you. And the delegation of the work, which oftentimes middle managers are doing things they shouldn't even be doing, as in like they should be delegating more, et cetera. That gets easier, right? And your staff shows up for you in a different way.

Uh, absolutely. Which I have a number of questions. So, well, no, just because you're so right. And I think it's really critical and I do want to actually get tactical with you, you know, for them around, first off, based on your own discipline that every morning you have your to-do list and the very first thing on your list is check in with people. So would you agree that one tool that our listeners and viewers could be doing, like, as soon as immediately after this episode, is that tomorrow morning when they go into work and they start making their to-do list, they add at the top, check in with your people. The next day, check in with your people. And here's my to-dos. The next day after that, Check in with your people.

Yep, absolutely. And you know, if, especially if it's a like change in attitude and people are surprised that you're checking in with them, maybe you're gonna get people that are like, I'm fine. What are you talking about? That's okay. The change will come. They're gonna appreciate that you're checking in with them. Don't take it personally. Don't take it as like, oh, I shouldn't be doing this. You just need to shift your own way of doing things so that they can see that you're really there for them. You care. And it, when I say check in with people, like I said earlier, I don't mean like, how's the deadline that's due today? It's more like, how's your kid? How's your life? How was your weekend? And like actually caring about people's things.

Right. Well, and I think it's such a huge point because forget about the big events that have happened in all of our lives over the last like 4 or 5 years, but even several months ago, You know, with the major storm, Eileen, that had come through and it just devastated communities. Like I'm thinking Asheville, I recall, just obliviated. And you, those individuals had to figure out a way to show up for work the next day, or maybe it was a week later, and they need to know from their bosses that they care. That their lives were just upended. And that's what you're trying to convey, correct?

Yes, absolutely. And, you know, hopefully it's not as devastating as Helene, but it really could just be that like your kid is sick and it's distracting you, or your grandmother needs to be moved into assisted living, or, you know, as we all get older, we're helping to care for our parents. And so what's happening there, maybe they're across the country or, In my case, like I had, I went hiking and I tore a ligament in my knee. So my CEO's been checking on that with me. So things, you know, it can be small, it can be big, but everybody's lives are their own and it feels big to them. Right. So it's, you know, knowing that the person has things going on outside of work. Yeah. Not just thinking about them as like a number that sits at a desk is so, so helpful to getting that person to be excited about what they're doing and stay with the company.

Yeah. Well, and I'll often say that we're not robots.

Correct.

We come into work with a lot of emotion, a lot of, you know, you know, just things going on in our lives and we need our team and our bosses to appreciate that. Yep. Yeah. I love it. Okay. So then you used the term micromanaging a few times, more than once. That's what jumped out at me. And I get asked a lot, like, am I really a micromanager? People, they're confused. Managers are often confused when they're called a micromanager as to what that actually means. So can you help them to really see, you know, what, what may or may not be behavior that looks like micromanaging?

Yeah, this is a great question. I think partially because micromanaging as a term is really like a hot term right now. You could say it's like toxic or like quiet quitting or like, uh, trauma or triggering, right? Any of these terms that are kind of hot in how we talk about corporate America, but that doesn't mean that what everybody's saying about it is what it is, right? So a toxic work environment, when somebody says is, isn't necessarily, and maybe there are toxic work environments that people don't realize are toxic. So micromanaging is very similar. So sometimes people will say, oh, you're micromanaging me, but really they're just being held accountable, which is very different. Whereas sometimes people will be told they're micromanaging and they really are. So when I think about micromanaging, I think about really not trusting the person to do the job. So it really comes from a place of like, do you trust them to do this? And you have to give up a certain amount of control to know that like, the goal is that they do it on time and they do it to the highest quality, not that they necessarily do it the way that you would do it, right? So oftentimes with micromanaging, it's staying way too on top of people and telling them to do it exactly your way. You have to remember as a supervisor, as a leader, that you have to give up a certain amount of control. Because the end result just needs to be high quality. It doesn't need to be exactly how you would do it. And micromanaging is often, you know, when you're saying, well, like, yes, this is the correct way of doing it, but I would do it this way and I want you to do it exactly how I would do it. That's not teaching somebody how to be their best version. It goes back to that whole teach a man to fish versus give a man a fish. If you invest the time to teach somebody how to do something correctly and they figure out the best way to do it for them, and that gets them to the correct place and on time, then that's better than you saying, do it this exact way.

Which is key. Get on time. And maybe there's a, a budget number there is more, much more important than the fact that one style of individual may need to do it and process it very differently than the other, but the end result is exactly what it is that you want.

Correct. And I always say that people are— everybody's good at something, and that means that they're also not good at something. So embrace the things they're really good at and understand that and lean into that and help them work around the things they're not good at. I'm not good at like making things pretty, but I'm really good at finding the bugs in a system or creating a new operational system. So I lean into what I'm good for and then I hire people to deal with the things I'm not good at. What we always talk about at Vision Advertising that, so when I'm training people, I say, I care about the destination. I don't care about the journey. And what I mean by that is I want you to get to the correct place on budget, on time, and to the highest quality, but you get there your own way. And that's okay. You can do it differently than me. At the end of the day, I care about the destination, not how you get there, as long as it works for you.

Right. And I think that's a good— another tool you're saying? Is a good litmus test for a manager would be ask yourself, you know, if it's critical that they get there on time, on budget, and that's the most critical, or are you so concerned or controlling that it's important that you also have control over how they're getting there. And you would hope that they come to the conclusion that no, to your point, it's actually the destination and not the process or how they got there.

Right. And that's not me saying the journey doesn't matter. Of course it matters. But what I'm saying is I don't need you to follow the map how I drew the map. I just need you to get to the right place and however you get there, that works for you is great. We love it.

Yeah, I love that. I love that. Now, another, another aspect of helping or having people shift from kind of a boss manager to a leader is also around them, wouldn't you say, being mentors, coaching, nurturing. And what are the, what are the obstacles you see there when it comes to managers? Not necessarily providing that, and therefore, what's the impact?

There's a lot there. A lot of impact. One of them could be that, you know, you could say that you're willing to mentor somebody and guide them and lead them, but if they don't feel safe with you, then they're not going to come to you when there's a problem. If you consistently react to things in a negative way or blow things out of proportion or make everything an emergency, people aren't going to come to you. For help. They need to feel safe and secure. And I don't mean like quote unquote safe space. What I mean is, is it okay to go to my manager and say, I'm really struggling with this, or I want to learn more about this, or I feel like I have a gap in my knowledge here. It needs to be okay for them to say those things so that they can, the manager can then say, yes, great. Let's get you a webinar, a workshop. Let me take you under my wing and take you to this meeting so you can better understand it. Let me carve out time for you and we can do a screen share, whatever it is. The manager, the leader needs to be approachable and make themselves approachable. People often talk about open door policies and I'm here to support you, but if you don't do that in action, if somebody comes to you with a problem or concern or they wanna learn something and you just immediately go, well, you should know that already, or what's wrong with you? Or ask somebody else, then they're never gonna come to you. And when you think, well, why aren't people coming to me for mentoring? I have so much to offer, which you probably they do, well, it's most likely because they don't feel like they can. They don't feel like it's available to them as an option. Again, this goes back to checking in with everyone, right? So we run an entirely remote workforce. The beginning of the day, I check in on the all-hands chat. How's everyone doing? How was your weekend? Hey, how's your sick kid? How was— we have somebody that took some time off recently to get married. We want to see photos. This is so exciting. Tell us all about Right? Like you're starting from the place of a person. Right. So it's all, it's layers that build up to, oh, they feel comfortable coming to you when there's a problem. They feel comfortable saying like, I don't really understand this. Can you help me? Yes. Let me actually, I've actually, there's a couple people that are confused about that. Let me carve out time to do this for you. It doesn't have to always be yes, because people have lots of things going on, but it could be a no, but. You just don't wanna cut people off. At the knees when they're coming for support.

Right. When they're asking for help. Yeah. And that's a vulnerable, you know, vulnerable place for someone is to, you know, especially not specifically gender, cuz I could be used to be very prideful just as much of a, as a man would be prideful. But we have to recognize that that's hard to ask for help. So you brought up something too in regards to that. So Being vulnerable and making sure that you are supporting, that also leads to a true leader really being empathetic, really meeting people where they are. Help us understand what you feel managers need to do to shift to being a leader and being empathetic.

Yeah, so I think there's a number of things. It's part of it is being self-aware of yourself, right? As a manager. I sometimes struggle with emotional intelligence again, because I'm coming from this place of like high logic, wanting to be very tactical. So again, that's why I put things on my task list. Whereas I have a woman who reports to me who's fantastic and she is really high EQ, understands people's emotions, et cetera. So if you start with understanding yourself and knowing what you are good at and what you're not good at. That can help with your empathy. And the second part of that I would add is, like I said earlier, understanding it's not work-life balance, it's work-life integration, right? You have kids or a dog or a mortgage or whatever. You have things outside of work. You teach taekwondo, you're the Boy Scout leader, you're whatever. You have things going on that influence your mood, influence your attention span, influence your day-to-day availability. And you have to remember that all the people that work for you also have that, right? And so one of the things we say is, you don't have to disclose things to me if you don't want. You can talk to me if you want, but you don't have to disclose. But what is gonna be incredibly helpful is if you say like, I'm having a difficulty in my life, my grandmother's sick, my boyfriend broke up with me, whatever. You don't have to say exactly what it is, but to say there's something going on. So it's on both sides, right? It's not just the leader, it's also the employee. You're creating a really clear line of communication and set of expectations for, you know, I understand that things that outside of work affect you in work. It is on you, the employee, to say if there's something going on that could affect you. You don't have to disclose exactly what it is. But you do need to say something's up so I'm not confused as to why they missed the deadline, what's happening, they seem less available. And then my responsibility as the leader is to not only receive that well and be available to you and offer support and be nonjudgmental, but to also check in with you regularly. And then don't forget about those details. Did everything work out with your boyfriend? How's the Boy Scout troop, et cetera? And remember that people are people, they're whole human beings with other lives. If they have to go to, I mean, for us, if they have to go to a doctor's appointment in the middle of the day, please go to the doctor's appointment in the middle of the day. Please prioritize your health. Don't think it comes last. You know, every company does things differently and some people are more focused on being at your desk at a certain time and clocking in and out. And obviously I'm not saying you, a middle manager, can change that. What you can do is have more understanding and empathy towards people's lives and capacity and, you know, when their brain is working and when it's not working and just understanding that.

Wouldn't you say that's what they want?

Mm-hmm. That is what they want.

The managers themselves want that. So what makes them think that their people wouldn't want it or the fact that they would want it and therefore it's almost like treat me how you wanna be treated, or treat others how you wanna be treated.

Right. Right. So some of it's the golden rule of treat others the way they wanna be treated, but some of it's also the platinum rule of, you know, how do they wanna be communicated with? How do they wanna be treated? How, what's gonna work for them? I have somebody that is on my team, a couple layers below me, who is very stoic and very tactical, but if you gotta sit down with him and you're like, what's going on? I feel like something's up here. Are you okay? And then it's like, well, he I, he's very frustrated about something happening with somebody in his family and because he's worked for me for a really long time, he can just like complain about it. And then he is like, I actually feel a lot better now. I'm like, great. If you need anything, let me know. I'm here. Just like sometimes people just need to have like a vent session and that's okay. Right.

We all do. I want to pussy bag sometime. I just wanna like, you know. Go at it on a punching bag. Julia, let me ask you this because you mentioned that you have a remote staff and of course that's more the norm than it, than it ever has been. And yet, do you find that many managers shifting to be a leader struggle with just how to effectively lead a remote and therefore what would be a tip for you based on what you do?

Yeah, so it definitely can be challenging to shift. We have been remote since 2020, so for me it's been probably easier than for most. We also had somebody working remote for a couple years before that, so we had a lot of systems in place. But I have somebody on my staff who got promoted earlier this year, about 9 months ago, and she had to shift from being an employee to being a leader. And then in addition to that, she had previously been in person with us, so now she's trying to figure out. Okay, so how do I lead remotely? And one of the things I always say is like, yes, absolutely. If you were in person, you could pop into somebody's office and say, hey, what's going on? How was your weekend? Or what's happening with this project? Or, you know, we really need to change what we're doing here. So yeah, you don't have that. In addition to very regular check-ins with camera on, because you wanna make sure you're getting people's, you know, emotions and body language and kind of all of those things. So we do a lot of regular one-on-ones. We also, one of our corporate values is that we give very like timely feedback, both positive and negative. And so if there's a problem, we set a video meeting same day, and it's not like, oh, you're getting yelled at. It's more just like, hey, this is an issue so that it doesn't come back and bite us. Let's deal with it now. What's confusing to you? How can we fix this? Et cetera. So I actually just earlier today had a meeting with somebody where they were like, yes, I'm trying to teach the person, she has a manager below her, how do you communicate even more, right? You kind of have to turn the dial up on the communication because you're not in person. So pinging them one-on-one, having one-on-one video meetings, regular scheduled things, making sure you're talking not just in the chat channel, which is a quick way of having communication. But still having that face time and still getting like what we were talking about earlier, that emotional check-in with everybody. But I would say because we're remote and other companies are remote as well, it is even more important to have that timely feedback, both constructive and positive, right? That people can figure out what's working and what's not working.

I love that. Now, but I have to ask one additional question cuz I, you, brought up something else in that piece, values, and which for you it sounds is the foundation for then how you go and operate.

Correct.

So how can others learn about the, the importance of them understanding their values and/or that also of the company to where then that drives how they operate and how they put people first?

Yeah, so I mean, ideally, if you're a middle manager, you're getting that from your supervisor. That's obviously not always the case. Not every manager is really good at this. Not every company is great at talking about their corporate values or how they value people. Obviously, I live in the real world. I understand all of that. But hopefully you're getting that, and then you can ask for some mentorship from your direct supervisor. I want to do the best job possible to mentor my staff and empower them. And create a really transparent, honest, open working place where they can come to me. Can you kind of walk me through what's worked best for you to create honest and open communication? Ask for the mentorship so that you can get the corporate values directly from your supervisor. That's literally their job. It's like, do their job. But in addition to that, this goes back to self-reflection and being aware of who you are as a person and what you're good at and what you struggle with, and everybody has their own values. And I'm not talking about politics, I'm not talking about religion, I'm talking about your day-to-day ethics of how you live in the world. Right. So for us, we really, really, really value open, honest, transparent communication with our staff, with our clients, with the outside world, kind of at every step of the way. We talk about that in the sales process. We talk about that when we're hiring. We talk about that in internal meetings. It really is the lifeblood of who we are. It's on our website. Et cetera. So everybody is aware of it. And this goes to branding, really who you are as a company, having the people that work for you really intrinsically understand who you are as a company and what differentiates you. I could talk about this all day, all day. That's just called marketing. But really those corporate values and the values of the people that you hire need to be reflected in your hiring process and in your mentorship process. You know, who you're bringing on, how they communicate, et cetera. If you're kind of starting from zero and trying to build this up, which is totally fine and understandable, I have absolutely been there. You know, you, again, it goes back to that self-reflective. What do you value from your leadership? Do you value open, honest, transparent, timely communication, or would you prefer an email digest every week and then a check-in, right? Everybody is very different. And that's honestly one of the best things I learned about management getting my master's degree was how everybody needs to be managed differently, and different things motivate different people. And you have to think about yourself, and then you have to kind of put yourself in the shoes of the people that work for you.

What would you recommend if there was one tip or strategy you can leave with our listeners and viewers in regards to shifting from a boss to a leader? What is one thing they could be leaving here and working toward implementing for themselves?

I think the like one tactical thing, you know me, I love a tactical tip, to really have that top of mind at the beginning of the day to check in with people individually, on a team basis, et cetera. And don't get discouraged if you're just getting up. I'm fine. As people get to know, like, and trust you more, they will start to open up more. They will even come to you to talk about things. And it takes time. Remember that it's an investment in the success of your team.

Yeah, I love that.

Love it.

Love it. Love it. Thank you so much. And everyone, I do want to point out Julia can be found, or information regarding what they do at Vision Advertising, they can be found at vision-advertising.com. Also be sure to follow her on LinkedIn. You could just go to Julia Becker Collins and you'll find her very easily. Julia, thank you so much.

This has been fantastic. Great. It was really wonderful. This is one of my favorite topics to talk about.

Yeah, I could tell. I love conversations like today that we had with powerhouse Julia Becker Collins all around how to shift from just being a so-so manager or boss to being a leader. She talked about servant leadership, talked about how to truly mentor, coach, guide, support, be empathetic, nurture your people. And yes, it has to be intentional. It has to be conscious. It takes time. It's not easy to put as your very first to-do every day to check in with your people, especially if you have large teams and they're remote and they're not just down the hall, but being intentional And really taking that time each and every morning as your number one priority on your to-do list just gives you tremendous return on that investment and reaps huge benefit, especially when it comes to the positivity, the value, the importance that your people feel, and therefore the productivity you get out from them. She also talked about What is and isn't micromanaging and what we as leaders need to ensure that we're doing in order to make our people feel valued and important and recognize their skills and talents and expertise. So they are contributing and able to take responsibility, take accountability, and take the lead in doing the job and completing those tasks that they've been assigned. She went on and on, just really helping us understand that as people managers, we don't want to just check off a list. We want to make a difference. We want to be there for, for those others and really be that servant leader. So it was a fabulous conversation. I, and I hope you took away from it as much as I did. And if you would like some specific tips and strategies for becoming the power half leader you're meant to be, then go to coachmebernadette.com/discoverycall and let's talk. I am so honored that you were here with us this week, and I'll look forward to having you for another episode of Shedding the Corporate Bitch.

Bye.