Tap Into Unstoppable Strength Through a Career Transition with Tama Kieves

Welcome, welcome, welcome to Shedding the Corporate Bitch, the podcast that helps you transform into a powerhouse leader by shedding the challenges and overwhelm along with the fear, insecurity, self-doubt, and negativity holding you back from creating riches in your work and life. This is Bernadette Boas of Ball of Fire Coaching, and today my guest and I will be going deep to answer the question, whether I am going through a career transition or a life transformation, how can I tap into unstoppable inner strength and break through fears and obstacles so I can experience complete fulfillment in my work and life? My guest today is Tamara Keeves, bestselling author and career coach. So welcome to the show, Tamara.

How are you? I am so glad to be here. Thank you.

I am so glad you're here. This whole conversation about uncertainty, obviously this past several years now has definitely kind of created a lot of angst and a lot of uncertainty for a lot of people. But what, what was it about this particular subject that kind of had you move into this? And I want to talk about your career and your transition yourself that you had there. But what was it about this particular subject that really kind of Toko?

Just because in my coaching practice and speaking, the thing I kept seeing over and over and over for people is that they weren't realizing their dreams, or they weren't believing in life anymore. They got disappointed and upset, and they got overwhelmed because they didn't know how to deal with uncertainty. And nobody likes dealing with uncertainty. I don't like dealing with uncertainty, you know, but it is the turning point about going for your greatest potential in this lifetime versus just being diminished and overwhelmed and letting life do you. And, you know, and like you said, for me it was my career, it was my own career, uh, you know, a transformation that really woke me up to this.

Well, and that's what I was gonna, um, say is because, you know, you're a Harvard-trained lawyer and, you know, and obviously had a great career and profession and livelihood And then all of a sudden you up and went a whole different direction. Some people might call you nuts.

Some people, some of those people might be related to me. Yeah, there you go.

There you go. So what kind of made you decide that that was the right path to take?

You know, I think there are so many people like me who are in successful careers or what the world considers successful or what you're supposed to do or should do. And you keep secretly wondering, is this all there is? Is this it? Is this it? I was so unhappy. The world kept telling me, but you're so successful. You're on partnership track at a major law firm and you went to Harvard and blah, blah, blah. And I kept feeling more and more depressed because I just kept thinking, ugh, I don't know. Is this what life's supposed to be? And you know, when I was younger, I knew what I wanted. When I was younger, I had this dream of being a writer and being creative, but I grew up in Brooklyn, New York. To an Orthodox Jewish family. Oh, my mother said something like, "You're gonna write? You're gonna write? You're gonna starve." And so that was it. I did what was practical, what you're supposed to do, what the world tells you to do, right? And one day when I was so unhappy practicing law, a friend of mine said something amazing that became the basis of my book. He said, "If you've been this successful, doing something you don't love, what could you do with what you love?

I love that.

Isn't that amazing? That became the base of all my books. If you're this successful doing something you don't even love, what could you do with what you love? And I just thought, you know what, you get one life in this lifetime. I need to know. I need to know. So that's— I walked out of everything without a plan, without money, without, you know, I mean, just—

How far along were you? How far into your career would you say you were?

I had not been practicing that long. I'd only been practicing like a year, you know, and I was just so unhappy. And I just thought, you know, and then I had gotten this bonus and I had gotten, you know, you're gonna be on partnership track. So it's like, oh my God, this is supposed to be great news. And I felt more imprisoned, like I'm going further into this life that's not satisfying me. And again, I just wanted to know what might happen if I followed my heart instead of denying it, squelching it, telling myself, you're an idiot, you're wrong, you're stupid, buck up, be an adult. All the junk we tell ourselves.

Yeah. What did your mother say?

My mother was not very happy at all. She's like, you're looking for a real job? Are you even trying at least?

It's like, well, I ask that because I think a lot of our listeners and our viewers feel that weight Yes, of expectation.

Yes.

And they're just scared to death of— forget about the fact that of uncertainty, but they're even scared to death of disappointing someone. And that leads to a lot of fear around uncertainty, wouldn't you say?

Oh, absolutely. We're terrified of letting somebody down or disappointing what, you know, what other people think our potential could be. But I guess, I guess one of the things that I want the listeners to know, I want everybody to know, is like, I care about your potential. I don't care about what other people want for your potential. I care for this beautiful, extraordinary path that's already inside you. And I deeply believe everybody has a dream, everybody has a path, you know, and I really do. And it's also what's making you miserable. It's because you know it and nobody else sees it. Everybody else thinks this is a good enough life for you, right? And I thought it was good enough. I thought, what's wrong with me? Other people would would be so happy about this, right? God, there must be something wrong with me.

Right.

Until I finally started thinking, what if I listened to myself? What if I tried it? What if I gave it a chance?

What if it worked?

What if it worked? And it is the best decision I've ever made in my life. And I'm not saying it's easy, but it is the best decision. That's why anybody who's been thinking about career transition, thinking about Transpar, thinking about leaving somebody who's not writing right for you, Your instincts know a path. There's something that knows a way.

They do. And when you say, just to clarify, because we have a lot of both entrepreneurs and corporate professionals, and you use the term career transition, you're talking about whether or not you're in corporate, you're in business, you're talking about just work as a whole.

Absolutely. Good distinction. And I've done both, right? Because I was in the corporate and I speak a lot to corporate women. But I speak a lot to entrepreneurs because my whole life since has been entrepreneurial, which is a very different track, you know, and all, all about learning how to listen to an inner voice, which I didn't even know I had, you know, because, you know, because if you've been successful, a lot of times it's because you followed the track, right? Yeah, I knew what I was supposed to do, you know, step A, step B, step C, you know. Entrepreneurial is like Wow, follow your gut. What is my gut?

So how did you— so that's a good point. How did you go about either seeking out, or how did you find your inner voice? Because I— there is a lot of people out there listening and watching right now who's like, okay, this is getting a little bit too woo-woo. And it's not, people, it's not. It's life. But how did you go about it yourself?

Oh God, and I relate to what your question— I think it's a brilliant question because I am so skeptical. I'm New York City born and raised, right? You know, I have this linear mind that, you know, I read all the self-help books about follow your bliss and all that stuff and be like, yeah, right, huh? Yeah, right. But I'll tell you what, one thing, when you're in enough pain, you'll be open-minded. You know, when people say to me, God, you were so courageous, and it was like, no, I was so desperate. I was in so much pain. And the one thing I will say about the listening to your inner voice and all of that is that it works. And I'm a linear skeptical girl, and for me, it's like, if you show me something that works, I'm gonna follow it, you know. And so it's almost a thing of when I decided to keep start listening, things opened up in a very different way because most of us are listening to an inner voice, but it's a critical inner voice, right? Right. Critical inner voice that says, you're a moron, you're crazy, this is stupid, 'You're way too old. Come on, get with it. You know, you don't have the education that woman had. You're not skinny like this person.' I mean, like, my inner voice was saying all that crap. I had to learn how to listen to something deeper and more loving and more resourceful. And, and that's been a lifelong path. Yeah.

Oh yeah.

All of my work is that. All of my books is that, about my own struggle with how do you hear this extraordinary inner voice? How do you trust Yeah.

Well, and what do you— help us all understand what you mean by linear success. I mean, what, what does that look like to someone who's listening going, this somewhat makes sense?

Yes, that's a great— you know, so, so in Thriving Through Uncertainty, I have this concept that there is linear success and inspired success. Most of us know linear success, especially if you've been any, you know, done traditional schooling. It's like what I was saying earlier. It's like you get the right education, you get the right degree, You get the right, you know, job, then you get the right bonus, then you get the right swimming pool. You know, it's kind of mapped out for you. Linear success is you're just following the plan, the rules that, you know, the traditional concepts, right? Inspired success is being moved. It's being moved from within. There is no external plan, right? Which is why it's scary, right? Because there's no map. But for me, The map led me to a place I didn't want to be. The map led me into a maze that I felt stuck in, right? And so in Inspired Success, is there something that moves you? It's about being moved. And what that is, is it's about listening moment by moment, right? So most of us want to figure out our whole lives. Okay, but Tamara, you know, give me the guarantee, the notary, how to notarize this, how to make sure this goes somewhere. I need to know. And inspired success is going to be this path of listening to the extraordinary intelligence that's already in you, and it's going to happen moment by moment. So what I'm going to say is, in this moment, there's something that you might know that you're meant to do, or a breadcrumb you're meant to follow. And it doesn't mean— it doesn't mean like, oh well, I know my whole life plan now. It would just be, you know, I'm supposed to call my sister back. You know, I'm supposed to walk on a beach right now. It won't even make sense, right, to your linear mind, right? I have a chapter in my book where I talk about, um, I call it the year of sleeping dangerously, because, because if you had asked me at one point, what's your next step? What's your next step after I left law? I was tired. I just wanted to rest. I was tired.

I need a vacation.

I need, I need— and that did not look like a career path, and that was terrifying, right? That did not look like like, wow, this is my big bold career, you know, path to success. But it actually was because that was my instinctive inspired next step, was I needed to rest. Because if you've been working hard and not doing your own right life, it's almost like a path of self-abuse.

Oh, big time.

It's almost self-abuse. And maybe you're not supposed to jump from that into some major thing. You're maybe supposed to start resting and nurturing yourself, which many of us, you know, achieving women suck at, right? Right, right, right.

We can't sit still. It's kind of like, no, we're supposed to constantly be going. But let me ask you something, but how can we find our direction? Like, say I'm just totally like, I want to change, I want to make that transition, I'm not sure what I want to be doing. So how can I find that direction without totally kind of ripping apart, you know, the fabric of my life, so to speak?

Yes, yes. And that's Good question, because most people are like, don't make me rip up the fabric of my life. Right. And a lot of people will say, I don't even know what I want.

Right.

What I want. I have never once coached somebody or had somebody in a workshop or in a webinar where we didn't get to what they wanted. And here's one of the secrets to it, OK, is that we all know what we want. We're just afraid to listen to it, or we believe it's unrealistic, or it's crazy, or I'll have to rip up my whole life to do it. So I don't even want to think about it. Right. So I remember when I was practicing law, I went to a therapist and I was just, same thing. I was just miserable. I don't know what I want to do in my life and I hate my life. And you know, whatever you tell therapists and the therapist kept saying, you know, but I thought you said you liked to write. I thought you said you'd like to write. And I'd be like, well, yeah, I like to write, but what can I do with my life? You know, like for me, that wasn't even an acceptable answer at all. It wasn't even possible at all. And so the thing I always ask people, if you don't know what you want, I'm going to ask you to think about what do you love? What would you love right now? What would light you up? And a lot of you will say, well, I don't even know, or I ask that question all the time and I don't know. But, but most of you are asking the question, what do I love that makes money? What do I love that, you know, that I don't have to go back to school for? And that's not what I'm asking you. Yeah, I'm asking you. I don't care what it is. I don't care if you say I like dark chocolate, you know, it's like I don't care what it— I want to know what you love. What?

I love puppies.

I love puppies. Exactly. I— what would I love to do if money weren't an issue? If whatever, you know. And again, this isn't an unrealistic path. We'll get to the money. I'm not saying, right, you know, it's not unrealistic. But if you want to find your most extraordinary desire, you have to be real. It doesn't— you have— you can't compromise it. You can't manipulate it. This is something from your heart and your gut and your soul and that, that divine intelligence inside you, right?

And so, yes, but do people also have a fear of, of acknowledging it because they feel as if they don't deserve it? They feel that they're not worthy of it, let alone the fact that they can't do it or can't achieve it?

Oh God, yes, yes.

Especially women. I find that they don't boast about what it is they truly want. Do you find that?

Oh, absolutely. I mean, people are like, oh, well, well, everybody wants to be a bestselling author. Who am I? You know, or everybody wants to be VP of God knows what, you know, why could I do that? Or everybody, you know, I think a lot of us dismiss our possibilities. And again, here's what I would say. I want you to imagine that the very desire that you have right now in your soul, your gut, whatever you call it, is a desire that you're meant to give other people. Had I not gone after my dreams, and I didn't do it for anybody else, I did it to save my life, right? I wanted to write the books I needed to read. And so, but my work has now saved thousands and thousands of other people, as I'm sure yours has as well. And so I'm gonna say to each of you, your dream, your desire, your love, your instinct, instinct, it's not only for you, it's for the people that you're going to help, it's for the people that you're going to move, it's for your children who are going to see you do this. And so all of us who accept our power, we're accepting it for everybody. Yeah.

And isn't it almost like that analogy that a lot of people use around, you know, put the mask on yourself first before helping others? So if you kind of really work on, you know, um, finding your direction, your path, your desires, your wants, it's going to make you happy, which then will make everybody around you happy. Isn't that another kind of way?

Absolutely. Look at it. Absolutely. Particularly because what people don't realize, people think, oh, well, what is painting going to do? Oh, you know, come on. What is, you know, yeah, I like, I like gardening. What is that going to do for the world? Right. You know, what you don't realize, what I didn't realize, I'll just speak about myself. I didn't realize that when I, 'cause I thought the same thing.

What is write?

Who needs another writer, right? I didn't even know what I wanted to write at the time, right? But what you don't realize is that when you do something you love, it affects your brain chemistry. It changes your brain chemistry. It changes your strength. It changes your generosity. When you're happier, when you're connected, you're more loving, you're more available, you're more alive. Most of us are dying silently. We are not listening, right? If we are not listening and we think we're being practical, we think we're being smart, we think we're just bucking up, right? But we're dying silently and we don't have access to our deepest powers. And that's what excites me in doing the work I do is that you see people wake up. To a deeper power and more love and more abilities. And by the way, I'm never saying that you have to leave a job to go be a painter or, you know, or, you know, or that you have to leave your life to do these things.

Right.

You can do it on a Wednesday night. You might do it on a Saturday morning. Right. Who knows what you could do? And I want to see what that path does for you because I found my confidence by doing this. I did not find my confidence by thinking about it. Yeah, confidence by doing it.

But well, except you do have a concept in your book, and I'm so glad that you went there. You have a concept in your book that says action isn't the smartest tool in the shed.

Yeah.

And I found that fascinating because everybody talks about you have to, you know, you have to put it into action, you have to take action. What do you mean that action isn't the sharpest tool in the shed?

That's awesome. Thank you. I work with a lot of achievers, right? And a lot of ambitious men and women who are conquering the world, wanna conquer the world. And if they're in any kind of transition, they're like, "Give me the steps, give me the steps, give me the 5 steps. I want the 3 steps. I want the, let's get this going. Let's get this happening." Right? And we all want action. And we've all learned that to be, that to get ahead, it's about taking the right actions. But here's the deal. I don't think actions serve you as much as changing your beliefs. So what I teach people is it's not so much about doing, doing, doing as much as it's about undoing and undoing and undoing those old beliefs. Because I had a belief from my family that if I did something I loved, I wouldn't make money. That was just incorporated in me, right? Like, well, sure, go ahead, do what you love, but you're not gonna make any money, right? Chris Starr, fine, right? So if I didn't question that belief or have a different belief, it would— it could take all the actions in the world, but it would be colored by these beliefs. Or if you have this belief that says, I know I don't ever get ahead, you know, I, I secretly, I almost get there, but then I don't. 'You know,' or 'Nobody ever notices me,' or whatever the beliefs are. Because here's the deal about life: we're never reacting to circumstances, we're reacting to our stories about our circumstances. We're never reacting to what's going on, I'm reacting always to how I see things. And so, right, the hardest thing about thriving through uncertainty, the hardest thing about any transition, but the best thing is it's going to be about really questioning the belief systems you have in life and changing those, because that's going to change your whole freaking life.

Yeah. Yes, I can. That's just the whole thing is just getting me all kind of like, woohoo. So tell me, tell us kind of what does that look like?

Most, most of what we focus on is where we put our focus, right? So again, there's going to be this voice of weakness in you, this voice of, well, you think it's practical. You think it's good judgment, you know, but I'm gonna ask you to focus on your strength and only your strength. I'm gonna ask you to focus on your love and only your love, right? And so I'm gonna start asking you to start noticing those different voices, right? So, you know, because again, how you will know the difference between the voices inside you is how does it make you feel? How does it make you feel? You know, if you're listening to a voice that says, like even now you're listening to this and maybe there's some part of you that's thinking, Wow, this sounds exciting. Maybe it's not too late. Maybe I could go back to school and become a therapist. Maybe I could do whatever it is. Maybe I could make, you know, $50,000 more a year if that's what I want, right? Part of me is getting excited and the other part maybe is saying, oh, come on, you know, like, come on, you know, let's be real now, right? So pay attention to how it feels and we are going to feed that strength. So One thing I'll give you a technique. It's in the book. It's, I have all my clients do win lists. And what a win list is, is when you're especially entrepreneurs, you know, because I always feel like they're never doing enough. They're never getting ahead. They're never, oh my God, I could do so much more. And I didn't do this and I didn't do that. So I always have you do win lists, which are at the end of each day, maybe you're going to do 5 to 10 wins of everything that was positive that day. Everything you did that was positive, but not only things you You did. But inner shifts, right? So what I mean by that is if you woke up in the morning and secretly, you know, you're usually depressed for like 20 minutes in the morning, but this morning you were only depressed for 10 minutes. I would put that on my win list.

Right.

That's progress. Yeah. Or I was going to make this call to this person and I didn't do it, but I didn't beat myself up this time, right? Win, right? So I care more about the inner wins than the external, because the relationship you cultivate with yourself is going to create everything in this lifetime. Learning to be kind and encouraging— that's what, again, that's what Thriving Through Uncertainty is about. That's what all my books are about, is learning. It teaches you how to become a champion for yourself, how to get on your own side, how to back yourself instead of attack yourself.

Yeah. Oh, I love that. How to back yourself and not attack.

No, I just said that. Damn, that's a good sound.

That's a quote. That's a quote from Tamara. Make a note, people. Back yourself, not attack yourself.

That's right.

Love it. So what suggestions do you have for our listeners and viewers when it comes to how they can prevent fear from getting in their way? Is you know, these uncoverings of your beliefs? Is it the win list? Are there, you know, certain things that you suggest to do to prevent fear?

Yes, absolutely. I mean, it's really— I mean, if you really want to make the greatest changes in your life, it's going to be about cultivating a new relationship with yourself. It's going to be, you know, I had to remind myself that I couldn't create a life I loved with the belief system that helped me create something I didn't love. Right? I really wanted to learn how to do this. And so fear gets in the way all the time. And many of us think that— we think it's practicality, we think it's good judgment, right? You know, like, we don't think it's fear. We don't— we're not hearing it as fear, right? So again, I think it really is this decision, and everybody will do it differently, right? So I personally, I really believe if, if spirituality is something that's available to to some, some listeners, in whatever form works for you, or mindset training, or meditation, or going within, whatever form is, is appropriate to you. To me, that was, that was so important, was to start trusting a power that was inside me, uh, that was greater, right? And so, and again, very different than my linear way of thinking. Sure, very different. But, you know, I just realized I want this extraordinary life, I'm going to have to try extraordinary things, I'm going to have to find out what What makes me feel safe? What makes— so that's what I'm going to ask people to keep thinking about. What makes you feel safe? What makes you feel empowered? Who are the, who are the people that champion you? Maybe it's this, maybe it's this radio show and TV show, right, of, you know, or maybe it's different guides or people or authors that you fall in love with. But it's like, really start making the effort to train your mind to think a certain way. Yeah, I'll just give you a specific example because of how powerful that can be. When I was writing my first book, This Time I Dance, um, you know, I, I was writing that and I didn't have a publisher and I didn't have an agent. I didn't have anybody, you know. I was working on it and it took me years, and it took me almost 12 years to do it.

Oh wow.

And people hear that and think, oh, I don't want to study with her anymore.

I'm done.

But I always tell people, it took me 11 years 6 months to heal and believe in myself and 1 year to write a book, I think. But anyways, I'm writing this book and I'm writing this book and it's on creating the work you love and believing in yourself and all this stuff, right? And I walk into a bookstore and there's a brand new book on exactly my topic and it's propped up and it's a famous author and I'm no one, you know, I'm just writing this book, blah, blah, blah. And so immediately I call this a choice point moment. Every one of you is going to have a choice point moment of, do you listen to fear, weakness, or do you listen to strength? Do you listen to fear? Do you listen to love? So immediately my inner voice, the negative one, was like, oh, forget it, see, you're ridiculous, you're delusional, you know, blah blah blah, you know, of you should just give up, you're no one. And then this other voice kept saying, no, you have to trust, you just have to trust, there's a reason you're called this way, there's a reason this keeps coming to you. You just have to trust. Thank God I listened to that other voice and I did trust. And by the way, one of the things it asked me that was the most amazing thing, it said, what's it gonna feel like at the end of your own life to realize you knew you had this dream but you didn't give yourself the chance, you didn't try it? And so that's what hooked me, and I then finally wrote that book, and I finished it and I self-published it at the time. And it got picked up by a major publisher that found me, that, you know, as an unknown author, it was unheard of, the success. And, you know, you know, they kept the exact writing, they kept everything. They've published every book since. And I think back to that choice point moment that we all have, right? I had listened to the practicality that said, who the hell are you? And you're ridiculous and you're wasting your time. Come on, this woman's famous. Yeah, right.

Fascinating. That's so awesome. All right, so there was a pa— another passage from your book that I want to, um, understand from your viewpoint what you meant by it. Uh, so if I can share it, uh, so it's from her book Thriving Through Uncertainty. Um, it's very provocative, so I just kind of was like, hmm, I would love her thoughts on it. You may, and quote, you may feel like things are challenging at this moment in your life, but let's get this straight right now. It's not because you're failing or broken. It's because your spirit demands soaring, not coping. It's your time. Now, you've touched on a little bit of that, but that whole spirit demands soaring, just when I read it, I just was like, woo, like, you know, gave me a jolt of electricity or something.

I'm all about the woo!

So what did you exactly mean by that in scope of what it is we're talking about?

Yes, you know, so first of all, I guess I want people to know we're living in so much uncertainty right now. The whole world's in uncertainty, right? It's— I mean, these are strange times, right? And so there's a lot of challenges, and it can seem like the world is falling apart. It can seem like your world is falling apart. If you're in transition or you're in some painful situation or you're just doubting yourself, it can seem like everything's falling apart. And I guess what I wanted people to know is you are not falling apart, baby. This is your time. And what's falling apart is the old ways. The old ways of doing things are falling apart, but there's something else inside you. And so when I said that your spirit demands so warring, not coping. What I meant by that is, you know, I know how to, quote, be successful in a traditional way. I know how to suffer, make myself miserable, drink too much, starve myself, whatever you need to do to get through it. I know how to do it, baby. I know how to cope. I know how to make that work. But my own soul said, no, that's not for you, darling. That's not for you, darling. It's like, this is no longer about just coping and just getting through it and just getting through it. I think these are the times that are demanding us to be extraordinary, to step into our leadership, to step into our genius, to step into our dreams. And that's our spirit, right? Our spirit demands soaring now because there's something inside you, each of us, that knows, just knows that there's another way, just knows there's something else, right? And so it's not about coping, it's not about doing it the way you've always done it to get the result you've always gotten, right? It's about waking up.

Yeah.

Something else that's inside you. And I think that's what these times are for. I really do.

Absolutely. Well, any uncertain time, right, is that, that opportunity to kind of sit back and say, okay, what do I want out of all of this?

Yes.

You know, you would hope that we're all gaining something from all of this.

You might as well.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know I have, you know, but at the same time, if anybody is struggling, you know, I can certainly feel for them as well. I know you can. Yeah, as well.

I don't want to diminish that struggle, and I don't want to diminish the fear, and I don't want to diminish the pain, pain. Because one of the things about, like, my books, for instance, I'm very honest in them, as you know. I'm very honest. I'm very personal. I tell my own stories. And people, you know, you hear me speaking, you think, well, she she must be really strong and courageous. I am so freaking timid, and I am afraid of my own shadow. I'm afraid of everything, and I share that in all my books. So, right, I always feel like if somebody neurotic like me can do this, there's so much hope for humanity.

I, I, I, I could totally relate to that because people always look at me going, oh, she's so outgoing and gregarious and strong, confident. I'm I'm like, no, I'm not. Yes, I am in some ways, and then like mush in others because we had to learn.

I mean, like, the strength that I do have is because I've faced so many of my own fears. I continue to face so many of my own fears because I'm still growing, right? And so, um, and so again, that's where strength comes from. Strength doesn't come from avoiding our fears, it comes from shifting them, realizing that fear that's telling you something, it's not true. Yeah, it's not true. There's something else in you, right?

Did you ever hear the acronym for fear? False Evidence Appearing Real.

Oh yes, oh yes.

Yeah, I mean, it, it kind of hit me like a brick when I learned that. I don't know how many years ago. I was like, damn, that's so true.

And that's what, and that's what I mean by mindset training, like, because Again, we look for those— you know, if you have these fears, you will look to prove that they're real, and you'll see it, right? But if you are believing in your strength and your love and that something else is guiding you, and there's breadcrumbs, and there's a force within you and an intelligence that's guiding you, someone— you'll look for that, right?

And I love your whole philosophy of looking at the positive, looking at the wins, looking at, you know, what I call riches, looking at all the good, because there's too many of us and media and everything else that's just throwing all the crap. Yes, that we just do— we do need to just focus on the positives. So what can we do when we do feel not only afraid? Because there's one thing to be fearful, there's another thing for it to totally paralyze us and, and totally, you know, and I'll use the word diminish us. There's got to be some, you know, apart from the beliefs and a change, you know, identifying your beliefs apart from the WINS. Um, what else do you suggest people do to kind of not be paralyzed or just totally, um, unmotivated?

Yes. So first of all, one thing I do want to clarify is that when we are focused on the beliefs and we do shift the beliefs, they do lead to actions. You know, I, I You know, like, you know, like, so a lot of people will say, oh, okay, that's just about the beliefs. And it's like, no, but if you have the right beliefs and you have the right mindset, man, you can take the right actions. Like, you will leave.

Right. Right.

So I do want people to know that, that this, like, you'll be inspired. You'll have an idea you wouldn't have had. You'll have the energy to do it that you wouldn't have had. But to get to your point, sometimes people just feel paralyzed, right? Like, I can't even know what I want. I can't even take an action. Right. You know, that kind of thing. And I think it's because a lot of times we feel disappointed or we feel like life didn't work out, right? And so like, I'm afraid to try again. What the hell, right? And so, or the other thing that I think that's even bigger, I think most of the people I've seen that are paralyzed is because they're trying to figure out their whole lives all at once. So they're listening to an interview like this and They're thinking, okay, what's my divine career path? Or what's my— and what's my 5-year plan in it? And how much money? And they're Googling, right? While they're listening, they're thinking, okay, I want to be an ecologist, an environmental blah, blah, blah. So they're Googling, how much money does that make? I mean, they're thinking about every freaking detail and its mother.

Right.

And that's what paralyzes you. To make this simple and easy. And I want to give you permission to experiment and to explore and to not know and to give yourself some room in this, because something bigger is going to come in. But it's going to come— it doesn't just come, it comes through little steps. It comes through— it's like dating, I guess. It's like, you know, you, you gotta date people to realize, oh, I don't like people who lie. Gee.

Right.

Wow, didn't realize that one before. Honesty's on my list now, you know. I'm like, seriously, you have to like just experiment because dating, like, immediately think, okay, but how's this gonna work? And da da da da da. And we're all, we're also afraid to take an action. We want to think it all through, get the guarantee, and that's what paralyzes you. So what I'm going to say is I want you hearing this to take one simple action towards anything you love, anything, whether it's, you know what, I'm gonna go for a walk today and I wasn't gonna, you know, I'm gonna, you know what, I haven't written and I always wanted to write, I'm gonna, I'm gonna get to buy a book I'm writing, or I'm gonna write something. Because here's the thing, like I said it earlier, thinking about something and doing it are two different things. When you're in the, when you're doing it When I'm doing the work I love, I have no fear at all. I have no fear. When I'm coaching somebody, I have not a shred of fear in the world. When I'm thinking about it, right, would I be a coach? Should I be a coach? Whatever. That's when I have fears.

Yeah.

That make money or what, you know, whatever. But when you're actually in the service of what you are here to do, you know, you don't have fear. So I want to get you doing more of the things that you love. Because that'll give you different energy. You're not paralyzed. You're not stuck, right?

Right.

You're just trying to think through everything all at once. And I just want to keep it simple.

And is that also because of the fact that victimhood— when you started talking about that, the word victimhood came up in my mind. You know, is it also because of the fact that some people are just more comfortable being uncomfortable?

Yeah.

You know, than they are— and, you know, than they are to get uncomfortable and, you know, again, acknowledge what it is they truly want.

Oh, that's so true. I mean, I spent years blaming my family. I mean, I got great stories. I grew up in Taboot. Who could resist that, right? I spent years, you know, being a victim of who I could have been if they'd encouraged me, who— what I could have done it, uh, right? And, um, and again, I'm not diminishing the pain that many of us feel.

Right.

But to be extraordinary, you know, when I said the thing about I don't want you coping, I want you soaring, right? Soaring means we're going to make different choices. We're going to make uncomfortable choices. We're going to go beyond where we've been. So what I had to do is I had to— I chose to do what I chose to do is to say, how could my background have served me? Rather than have hurt me? If I'm pretending I have a calling in this lifetime, I am destined in this lifetime, how could I look at my past in a way that makes me see it as helpful? And for me, like, one of my biggest grievances was my family didn't hear me and they didn't see who I really was and they didn't listen. But that's made me in this lifetime have such a calling that on my watch I will see somebody's gifts. I will see who they are. I will listen to them. I will love who they are. I will never on my watch in my workshops and my classes and programs and blah, blah, blah. It's like, it's my gift. It's what I do.

Right.

And I think it's because I know the pain.

Sure.

I had it. And so what if each of us has these secret gifts in us? You know, Carl Jung said that we're your wounds You're gifted, or you're wounded, you're gifted. Isn't that amazing?

Right?

And many of us have these possibilities and gifts inside us because of our past. Yeah, that's true.

No, it's true. I love that. I absolutely love that. All right, so I want you to share a couple of things with us. Um, I want you to talk about— well, first off, I'll put it up. I want you to talk about a free webinar that you have around Daring to Decide. So could you share a little bit about that? Yeah, I also want you to share about your retreats that you have.

Yes, absolutely. So the Dare to Decide, um, was a— was one of my most popular, uh, webinars I ever did. It's about making the best decisions of your life. It wasn't free. I think it sells for like $60 or something like that on our website. We're making it free to your audience, so this is a secret link. So this is just for your audience and or whoever, you know, TammyKeys.com/Dare. And it's, it was really a very, very powerful live experience about taking any decision you're going through, anything you're going through, and using some of the techniques. It's much more experiential. We use the techniques. I, you know, I've been a master coach for years, and so I really guide you through that. And, and it It's got great people in it, so it was just great. So it's free, you guys. I just wanted you to have that kind of support.

And thank you, thank you. So go to tamakeves.com/dare to, for those of you listening, for to get that webinar, Dare to Decide. tamakeves.com/dare. And we'll have the links up also throughout all of our posts.

Yes. Okay, very glad you did. That's all I could I can say.

There you go, there you go.

All right, and the retreat is horribly immodestly, horribly immodestly. And your retreat, retreat. So I do, I do all kinds of retreats. I do a lot, like I do a lot of online programs, but I have a live weekend retreat coming up at the Omega Institute. It's in upstate New York, it's like 90 minutes from, um, New York City. So it's beautiful upstate New York. It's June 10th through the 12th, it's on Thriving Through Uncertainty with A Course in Miracles, uh, which is a, uh, yes, it's a, a bit of a spiritual angle of again listening to love instead of fear, right? Retreats are like nothing else on this planet, you know. If you can ever do something live, it's just life-changing because we have the time, we have the space. I'm very interpersonal. I will get to know you and your situation, um, and the people you meet are like none other. So fabulous, you know, if you can join me there. I'm also going to Bali, you know, so, and all kinds of other retreats. It's on my pages also. But, um, so, but, but this, it's the only live weekend retreat that I'm doing this year. So, okay, get there. I know your fear is going to say, oh, I can't go there, blah blah blah. It's life-changing, right?

So the question is, how much do you want change in your life? People. Go to tamakees.com and learn more about it. Just search out her website.

It's tamakees.com and you get forward slash retreats.

Oh, forward slash retreats. There you go. All right, awesome. One last tip real quick for our listeners and viewers.

One last tip. Um, first of all, I think get support, right? Get support. Follow, follow Bernadette, you know, uh, follow me on Facebook. Make sure you get my newsletter at tamakeeps.com. Sign up for all— get support for your dreams. But the main— I guess the other thing, you know, in terms of that mindset shift, um, I guess one of the last tips I will say is focus on your desires more than your obstacles. Focus— watch your mind. Focus on those desires more than your obstacles, the hints of desires you have, more than the reasons you can't do it. Because there will be a voice in you that's says, oh, those dreams are frivolous, they're silly, blah blah blah. And what I want you to know is that they are imperative at this time. They will change your whole life. It is worth everything in this lifetime to learn how to listen to those desires in you, because you, you have your dreams for a reason, and you're here to help yourself, the world, everyone. It will change everything about you. Um, and it's such a personalized path. It's not scary. It's not like you have to change your whole freaking life or anything, but it will change your whole life.

So that's, that's a guarantee from Tammy.

Yeah.

All right, so please everyone, go to tammykeeves.com and just like, you know, spend some time there, search her out. Uh, definitely follow her Facebook, Instagram, Instagram, um, and LinkedIn is @Tamakeves, K-I-E-V-E-S. Um, and then at the same time, definitely check out that webinar of hers at tamakeves.com/dare, and her retreats are at tamakeves.com/retreats. Tama, thank you so much for being part of the show. This has been fabulous.

I'm honored. Thank you, and thank you so much for doing the work you do and empowering so many people and changing people's lives. Thank you.

Oh, thank you very much. I appreciate that. And for everyone else, thank you so much for being here. Shedding the Bitch Radio and TV broadcasts every Tuesday at noon Eastern time across YouTube and everywhere you get your podcasts. And at the same time, it's brought to you by Ball of Fire Coaching, NG Tax Solutions, and Up Top Roofing of Atlanta. I appreciate you being here, and check us out next Tuesday at noon Eastern Time.