The Power of Presence and Resilience with Dr. Benah Parker

What if the very habits that got you to the top, hard work, overachievement, perfectionism, are the same ones that are holding you back from really becoming the powerhouse leader you're meant to be? Today we're redefining leadership with our guest, Dr. Vayna Parker of Level 42 Consulting, an elite executive coach and social psychologist who helps high-achieving professionals break free from burnout, master executive presence, and lead with resilience. In this episode, we're diving into why overperforming and under-delegating are sabotaging your executive presence, the hidden cost of overachievement, and the real strategies that help you command respect, influence decisions, and create sustainable impact. If you're ready to stop overworking and start leading on your teams, then stay with us. This conversation is going to challenge everything you've known about leadership. Let's dive in.

Welcome to Shedding the Corporate Bitch, the podcast that transforms today's managers into tomorrow's powerhouse leaders. Your host, Bernadette Boas, executive coach and author, brings you into a world where the corporate grind meets personal growth and success in each and every episode. With more than 25 years in corporate trenches, Bernadette's own journey from being dismissed as a tyrant boss to becoming a sought-after leadership coach and speaker illustrates very essence of transformation that she now inspires in others with her tips, strategies, and stories. So if you're ready to shed the of fear and insecurity, ditch the imposter syndrome, and step into the role of the powerhouse leader you were born to be, this podcast is for you. Let's do this.

Bina, welcome, welcome, welcome! How are you?

I'm doing great. Thank you so much for allowing me to be here today.

Oh, I am thrilled because I think this whole conversation about resilience and presence is critical for both the men and the women that are trying and working their tails off to really make a difference, stand out, and to rise up and be the powerhouses they're meant to be. But before we get into all that, I love our listeners and viewers to get to know a little bit about our guests personally. So could you share with us a little bit about Baina?

Absolutely. I live in the Phoenix, Arizona area. My husband is a voiceover actor. We have two kids. One just started college and one's about to graduate high school. So I get to do my executive coaching, be a psychologist in the space of working from home and supporting the family.

Speaking of what we are going to be talking about today, how critical is that? Because that certainly ensures that you are showing up. You are, you do have a presence. And certainly resilience plays a huge part when, when you're trying to juggle so many things. And both men and women do that when it comes to their families, their work, their friends, and their community. So help me understand what led you and your company Level 42 Consulting to really focus in the space of presence and resilience.

I started studying leadership when I was 14. I went to my first leadership training seminar when I was, I was an officer in the marching band in high school. And so they took the officers to a leadership training. And at that point, I was just fascinated by this idea that, you know, in this leadership space, you could study it and you could learn and you could be better at it. And so over the years, as I, you know, went through college and then graduate school in, in the space of psychology, was really looking at, you know, how do we take everything from our, our background, our upbringing, our conditioning of who we're supposed to be and how we're expected to show up and turn that into this leadership space. And really, I mean, my dissertation was really looking at how people manage all the different identities and the roles that we play and where we can find that resilience. And so if you're, if you're threatened or challenged in one area of your life, you have a bad day at work, how does your identity as a partner, as a friend, or as a parent build that resilience so that your whole self-concept doesn't fall apart and crumble.

Now, let me ask you something because that last comment you made about what's going on in your personal life doesn't affect your, your work. I don't know about you. I'm sure you run into a lot of situations where a professional, even executive, they do lose it at, at times in the workplace and, and what is going on outside the workplace, you know, is brought in and affects their leadership. How do you help them really learn what it takes to have composure and calm and grace when it is more than just work pressure, but also personal dynamics?

Yeah, I think that's a great question. And the funny thing is, like you mentioned how the, the personal things impact the work, and we see it going both ways. We see the work stresses impacting the relationships at home. And so when I'm working with my clients, you know, one-on-one, a lot of things I always come back to is, well, the way you do one thing is the way you do everything. So if you're struggling to communicate in the office, if you're struggling with how you're showing up with your team, chances are you're struggling with in your personal relationships too. So while we typically start in this, this professional sphere of what is your executive presence, it's, it's more than just confidence. It's, how you show up, how you make decisions, how you communicate. All of those things go into executive presence. But when you are intentional and mindful and aware of how you're showing up in those spaces, it's gonna have benefits in the other areas of your life with your friends, with your family, those relationships as well.

What do you do to get people out of their head and out of, out of the hurriedness of that long to-do list that they have in the workplace, especially at the executive level to really sit back and be reflective on what is the things that, what are, who are the people, what are the situations that are causing them to not be at their best and not have that executive presence.

It's interesting because sometimes some clients come to me when they are clearly in this space of, I'm not showing up the way I want to, I'm not delivering the way I want to. And I have other clients who are very proactive about it. You know, one of my, I, nobody has a favorite client, but one of my favorite clients, when he first started working with me, he came to me and he said, you know, I have this promotion. I know I'm getting this promotion coming up. I wanna be the leader I've never been. I wanna be the leader I've never had. Because he recognized he had had leaders that got the job done, but he was like, I wanna show up in a way that is much more intentional, much more mindful, much more. I want to know that when I go into a room, I'm not just leading a meeting because I have the title. I'm not leading a meeting just to run through the agenda, but it's conveying the, I mean, the, the gravitas, the confidence, of course, but also the connections that he wanted to have with his team, the, the vision and the mission that they were all supporting. So when I'm working with those clients, like I said, some are coming from the space of, I'm doing all the things I've done before and they're not hitting the mark anymore. So, and so I guess step back and go, okay, great. Let's take a look at what are these habits? What are these patterns? What are these unconscious things? That either got them, that clearly got you to this level of success, but were you doing them because you thought they were expected of you? And maybe they were, but maybe you're in a different environment now. Maybe you're in a different organization, or maybe those things don't align with how you want to lead. So we're going to do some of that work to say, how do we interrupt these habits and what are we going to replace them with that is really aligned with you as a leader and your own vision for leadership? Because if you've been in an organization for a while and you got promoted, people come into that thing, into that space thinking, well, I need to lead the way all the other leaders lead. And you can do it for a while, but if you're missing that alignment, then it's time to get that clarity and say, what is the clarity of your leadership? What are the parts that work for you and what are the parts that aren't? And we're gonna dig into those and go, okay, then what are the habits and behaviors and decision-making that you need to change and how do we help you build that in so it's not something you're doing just by gritting your teeth, but that it becomes natural and aligned with how you wanna lead.

Now, a lot of people will throw around the term executive presence. I wanna gain executive presence, but they really don't understand what that really looks like, but more so what it feels like because You said it's not about confidence, and would you also agree it's not the physical?

I, I would say it's not about just confidence and it's not about just the physical, cuz I think all of those play a part. Of course, when I'm working with a client who's really focused on, if we are focusing on their executive presence, I always say it, executive presence, it's not a monolith. I mean, we can say stereotypically, okay, if you think of an executive and, you know, take a poll and what people are gonna come up with. But the question is, in your organization, in your industry, I mean, you take an executive in Silicon Valley, I mean, the, the tech bro model, they're gonna show up in a hoodie and jeans and, you know, that kind of relaxed look. But I mean, not 30 years ago, that's, you know, fairly recent. But then you look in, in healthcare or in, in the legal fields and people are in suits. And it's, you know, there's these different things of what does the executive look like? In your industry, but also within the culture of your organization. I mean, if you're the founder of the organization, you have some more leeway. But if you're, you know, in a, in a larger corporation or a more established business, there is some, you know, there are some expectations for, for their leadership. But then it's also, you, you can look professional and not look, not always be completely buttoned up. And I know, I, I wanna say that women might have some more flexibility in professional looks. Men, it's often suits or sport coats or, you know, those types of things. But it's, it's really stepping back and going, okay, so for the physical side, what does that look like in your organization? But then we get into all those things that are beyond the physical. So yes, confidence matters, but it's not just confidence. It's, it's having, you know, if your culture, the culture of your organization is based on fun, then coming in super serious all the time. I mean, yes, you're the leader, but you have to figure out what is the humor, where is the inner, what are the interactions that align with the culture of the organization, and how as a leader do you promote those for your team, and do you embody them for your team? So it's not a one-size-fits-all when it comes to executive presence at all. I think one of the best things when I'm working with my clients and leaders is like we, we talked about that being the leader you've never had, but it's not always about being led the way that you want to be led. It's being aware that the people in your team and your organization, whether it's a, you're having a one-on-one meeting, whether you're meeting with your, you know, C-suite team, or whether you're in front of your company with an all hands, it's about how do the people in your audience need to be communicated with so they can actually hear your message. Though, as a leader, it's not just about, well, I mean, I went out there and I had my bullet points and I checked it off and I said, this is the goal, and everyone smiled and nodded their head, and a week later, nothing got done. Maybe you have people in your organization that don't need a checklist. Maybe they need the vision first. Maybe they need to, maybe they need their own spotlight to know that they are already recognized and valued for what they've already brought to the team. Because, you know, if you have a team that's delivering, and they're not getting the recognition, they're not getting the, the, and the recognition piece for the work they've already done, some people will start to shut down. Not, not everybody in your team, but as a leader, it's about being aware that the way that you want to be led or want to be communicated with is not typically, not always the way that everybody in your organization wants to. So it's about crafting your messages and your communication and how you're showing up to meet all of their needs so they can actually hear where you're taking them.

Would you ever recommend to a leader to go and seek out that type of feedback from their people to just not make assumptions in regards to it, but really learn to, to understand if it's not every single individual, but what are the major themes of how their team of individuals want to be communicated to, engaged with.

So, yeah, go on. I, I do think that's important. And I remember, you know, my own corporate career when I started leading a team, when I would have one-on-ones with them, our first one-on-one, I would go in and ask and say, okay, so some people love public recognition, some people don't. Some people just want an email that says, you know, hey, great, I appreciate you got this to me. Other people want to be called out and said, hey, this person's really shiny, you know? So That recognition piece can be very different. I would always ask, you know, what is your best— because I would come in with my own expectations for, you know, how we're going to communicate. And at the same time, I want to say, well, this is what works for me. You know, where does this feel like a really heavy lift for you? Because I've worked in organizations where end of day Friday, everybody's supposed to email something to the leader of, this is what I did this week. But if you're busy and you're getting things done, who wants to stop at the end of the day and be like, and now I'm gonna do a check? No, you have momentum. And, you know, I could see that clash for different people. So I think as a leader going in and, I mean, clearly if you're leading an entire organization, you're not gonna ask everybody individually, but having those people with different perspectives, once you've asked a handful of people, you'll know, okay, some people, I mean, we all know those people that you work with that they'll come into your office and ask about your weekend and you're like, why are you interrupting me? And you go, oh. This person's asking about my weekend and my family because that matters to them. So they need connection. And now I know before I go ask this person for deliverable, I'm gonna say, well, no, how was your kid's soccer game?

Did you go to this, this event with your friends that I heard about?

Because once that connection is met, they know, I know that they feel seen. And so recognizing that there are some people, if you go in and ask them about their weekend, As a leader, they're like, I don't have to share this with you. That's private. I'm not bringing that to work. And you go, okay, I don't want to cross that line either. Having those conversations one-on-one gives you an idea of where people have their different preferences so that, I mean, you're not going to be able to tailor every conversation, but it's about how do you hit all of those marks when you're communicating with a group, but with those people that you do meet with one-on-one or in smaller organizations, the smaller groups. You know, kind of who needs what to be able to get to the meat of where you're trying to lead them.

And no one ever said leadership is easy.

No.

So you better be careful what you ask for when you want, when you want to elevate.

Well, for me, the people who really want, I mean, I think there are people who absolutely want to get into leadership for all the right reasons. And there are other people who sit back and they go, oh, that person over there has the fancy office and they get all the money and they're not even here all the time. And I'm like, do you know how much they're working when they're not here? They're not here because they're meeting with funders or with donors or with da da da da da da da da. And they've sacrificed a lot to get— so yeah, leadership looks great from the outside and from the inside it can still be great. And it's a lot of work. Absolutely.

Well, more importantly, meeting people's needs, humans' needs is challenging and it's tiring and it's very— you have to be invested. And you have to want the best for people, correct?

Yes. And I think that's one of the biggest things is, you know, when I'm working with clients, they may come in and go, oh, well, I wanna, I want to take my executive presence to the next level. And I will always come back and say, absolutely. You know, you're here, you're in this position, you care about your organization, you care about, you know, the mission that you're working towards. And you know, you have to put on your own mask first. So where are your boundaries? You might show up, I mean, we talk about perfectionism all the time, but perfectionism is just another form of self-sabotage. You know, if you're showing up in that space, you're, you're overworking, you're under-delegating, you're communicating that you don't trust your team, you're micromanaging, and nobody wants that. And we dial it back and go, okay, you have this belief about a leader shows up and makes sure that everything's perfect. That's, let's, let's disabuse you of the notion of what leadership is, right? And so I think being able to show up and yes, absolutely give your all, but not all, all, because you have to keep some for yourself, for the things outside of work. We work to live, not live to work.

Love that. Absolutely. Because it's so true. It's so true. But break down, let's get into perfectionism a bit more. 'Cause you, you threw out a bunch of things that trigger people, managing and, you know, so let's break that down a little bit more. What does a perfectionist look like as a leader?

A lot of leaders are perfectionists, and a lot of perfectionists become leaders because they like to step into that space and kind of have control over making sure that everything's perfect and polished, right? And in small bursts and small amounts, okay, that's great. But over time, being a perfectionist leader, like I said, you, you tend to overwork because you don't want anything out of your control. Yes, this person might, you might delegate some pieces of the work, but then you're still gonna spend the time going over everything with a fine-tooth comb. I mean, I think of, I mean, honestly, the people who stay in graduate school forever because they keep rewriting one chapter. And eventually you have to go, you're never gonna make everybody perfectly happy all the time. You have to figure out what is the appropriate— success isn't always 100%. Yeah. There are moments in, in business and honestly in personal life where you go, Solid B+ is good for now. Like, this does not have to be A+ work. And I mean, again, from my time working in corporate tech, you know, this phrase of the minimum viable product. What is our MVP right now that we can get out and delivered so that then we can get feedback on it and we can get, you know, get people's perspective on what else is needed and how do we tweak it. But if you wait for everything to be perfect, you're never going to launch. Like I said, so that leads to that overworking and under-delegating. But if you've hired, as a leader, if you've hired a team or you've inherited a team and you're developing them, they have to know that you believe in their abilities and skills too. So if you're not giving them anything to prove themselves, they're not getting the practice, they're not getting the experience. And again, you are, sorry, there's, there we go. You're getting burned out.

Right.

Yeah. And so it's about how do you let go of this idea of, well, as the leader, I'm responsible, so everything has to be perfect because it all reflects on me and going, well, I'm going to delegate. And yes, if something goes wrong, I'm still, it's still my, it may not be my fault, but it's still my job to fix it. So I'm still going to figure out how do we make this better? Right. But people have to, you know, if you're hiring people, you have to let them do the job you brought them in for. You cannot control all of that. And, and still get what you need from your team.

And you mentioned it briefly earlier, so it's control.

Boom. Yeah. Boom. Perfectionism is very much about control.

Yes. And, but you also then earlier mentioned how that breaks down trust. And trust is like the foundation of any relationship, especially of a team that you're trying to make very cohesive. Yes. What are the damaging effects of breaking that trust as a result of one just wanting to hold on to everything.

Yeah. Well, I mean, a lot of it is when that trust is broken, people don't want to show up for you. They don't want to do the work. And I mean, not to take it out of the workplace, I always think of this example as when my kids were growing up, you know, as I'm teaching them how to do things around the house, it got to the point where I was kind of, you know, I'm like, you know, I need you to just load the dishwasher. And finally my daughter was like, mom, every time I load the dishwasher, you come behind me and redo it. So if I'm always, if I'm already doing it wrong, then why am I even gonna do it at all? And that was a moment for me to go, oh, I, in this moment, do I want it to be perfect the way I want the dishwasher loaded, or do I just want the chore done where I don't have to do it? Yeah. And I had to give up that need for like, it's not the way I want it done to going, oh, I, I didn't do it. It's fine. And that's another thing in leadership you got to, if as long as it gets done, does it have to be done your way? You might, yes, you have the experience, you have the background, you might know the right way to do it, but that's not always the only way. And over time, the people that you're hiring might have different skills, they might have different technical abilities, they might have, they might know of a platform that you don't know of, they may know of solutions from their own experience. Hopefully you're hiring people that have the experience they need for the job, right? And you end up learning from them. Yes. I mean, I, I never want to be the smartest person. If I'm the smartest person in the room, I'm in the wrong room, right?

You're reading my mind.

You're reading my mind.

I always want to be learning.

I always want to be growing, and we do that from the people that we hire, from the people that we work with as well. Let them lead, let them make mistakes, let them do the things you brought them in to do. And when, I mean, yes, if you see somebody, you know, driving a truck into oncoming traffic, stop the truck. Use their experience and let them test things out and go, hey, that, that actually works better than the way I used to do it.

Well, you mentioned that you have children. I do not, but What I witness, you know, with parents is just, you have to let them fly. You have to just let them go and trust. Even when they're climbing up this huge ladder, you know, to get down a slide and you're just like sitting there cringing, you know, you just have to trust in them and you'll be there to pick up the pieces. Exactly. And that applies exactly to a leader. Wouldn't you agree? Yeah.

And I think that's one of the best things about leadership is getting to be that safety net for your team. I mean, I always said, you know, my job as a leader is to, to be the umbrella so that whatever's happening with, you know, board members or whatever, you know, other parts executive, whatever political, you know, office politics are coming, I'm, I'm the umbrella sheltering my team from whatever fallout so they can do their jobs. And I'm also the foundation. I'm here to make sure you have the tools, the training, the resources, the support that you can build your own experience and expertise on. And this space here is where we're gonna deliver what our team's supposed to deliver, and you're gonna get to show up as your best self. And my goal is to help you grow to get to whatever your next level is.

And what, beyond what we talked about, what do you find to be the biggest challenge for leaders, and I'll actually call 'em managers, to not allow themselves to be that type of leader? What is holding them back?

I think so much of the time it's really working towards a, a definition of success that's not necessarily yours. I think one of the big steps I do with my clients is like, let's redefine success. And maybe your version of success ends up looking pretty much like how it was when you came in, but now you know it's your version because so much of the time, you know, you, you go to school, you get the degree, you get the job, you start the family, you get the promotion, you do all these things, and you are very successful on paper. I mean, you've got the fancy office, the fancy car, the, the big paycheck. And, you know, I work with leaders that go, I can do all these things. And where is that fulfillment? Where's that passion I had when I started? And I go, okay, but you know, this, this is what success looks like on paper or in, in day to day. But what is your success? And they go, well, I really wanted to write this book, or I really wanna travel more. I go, okay, cool. How do we work that in? And some people know what, what the thing is that they're missing, but there's all these fears and concerns of, you know, at this level of success, I have too many people counting on me. I can't go do what feels fulfilling for me. And we're gonna work through that. And other people don't know. They don't know what it is. They go, something's just not right. And we go, well, let's figure out what success means and how do we align this with your own personal values so that as you're, because you love your work and, you know, if you're good at it and you get recognized for it, that's not necessarily something you want to walk away from. I mean, we, we all love a good self-esteem, Pat, and you don't have to, but it's also, you don't have to live by somebody else's rules all the time. There are moments you do, of course, you know, in some organizations or in some industries There's compliance, there's regulations. Yes, you have to check those boxes, but for the area where you have some leeway, how do we make sure that your role as a leader and as a human is aligned with what you actually want for your life?

And you said earlier about you shouldn't be operating against someone else's expectations, right? It's your definition of success, as you just said, and what is it that you want to achieve and, and accomplish?

I absolutely—

Exactly.

Love that. So if you had one takeaway for them to actually like walk away from here and start putting something into action, what would that be?

I would say definitely redefine success for yourself.

I love it.

You know, sit down and think through and, and recognize that what success looked like when you started, what you thought success was gonna be and what success what you want or need success to be now. It's okay if those are different. You know, we hopefully we're growing and changing over time. So, you know, some core values stay, stay the same throughout life and other values shift through different, different periods of life. So in this moment, what are the values that, that matter the most to you? And then how are you able to show up as a leader to achieve those goals for yourself? So redefining success. And stop overworking. Recognize that, you know, you have people around you. Ask for help. Trust, trust the people you've hired or you've brought in, in your organization and, and delegate.

And well, and on your second point about overworking, that's also creating boundaries. Like recognize the boundaries that you have, and if you don't have any, Would you say to define them and live by them? Why?

Yeah, it's funny because I have a client, when we started working together, you know, figuring out when we were going to meet, and she's like, I have no meeting Thursdays. Thursdays are days of no meetings, they're days for me to work. So the perfect days for her and I to connect. And every time we meet, I'm like, okay, so we're meeting Thursday afternoon. She's like, I had two meetings today. I'm like, yeah, like you said the boundary, but you didn't, you didn't stick with it. So we're going to practice this. It's a habit, it's a skill, it's practice.

Well, because it's also being true to yourself.

Yes.

Making sure that if that's a boundary that one defines, then say no. Do you get a lot of, do you get a lot of issues with those individuals that just aren't comfortable saying no?

Yes. Yes. It's hard to say no because everybody, I mean, We all want to be liked to some extent. And if you are the person, you're like, I'm the, I'm the go-to. People know I'm the problem solver. And it's great to be the problem solver. It's great to be the person that comes in with the solutions. But then if everybody's coming to you, the things that matter to you, you're putting out everybody else's fires. So I often give people this, this example of if somebody's asking you to do something and it's something that you feel is worth your time, but you, you don't have the bandwidth right now. It's, you can simply say, I'm focused on this priority right now. Can we revisit this in a week? Rather than saying, yes, let me get right on that for you and putting all your stuff to the side, it's about how do you come up with the ways of saying no that you're comfortable with? And sometimes it's a flat out, I think that's a great project for you to work on. Or I think that's a great project. Why don't you bring somebody else from this team in to collaborate? It doesn't always have to be you.

Right.

But finding the ways that, that no feels aligned with how you, again, how you wanna show up and lead.

Right. Even to your own boss, not just the peers.

No, managing up is a good skill. Managing up is a very good skill. 'Cause I mean, we've all seen those bosses. A lot of times very visionary people get into leadership roles and they don't always understand the details of what it takes to make their vision work.

Right.

And so as one of those detail problem solver people, If your boss is coming to you with this and then I need this, and it feels like they're chasing these squirrels, eventually one of the skills is coming in and saying, wait, this is a list of things I'm working on. Which are we taking off for me to add the new thing on?

Love that. Well, you gave us a lot of key takeaways.

Hey.

And they could just pick one even to just get started, right?

Baby steps. Every baby step is still a step in the right direction. If you try to eat the whole elephant at once, it's not gonna go well.

Thank you so much for your time.

Thank you very much.

But while you're here, I do want to remind everyone, please go to level42consulting.com and learn all about Beina and the work that she does. Follow her on LinkedIn, very easy, Beina Parker, and also on Instagram, it's @level42consulting. But thank you so much.

I appreciate it. Thank you very much, Bernadette.

What a powerhouse conversation with Beina Parker of Level 42 Consulting. What I'm taking away from the conversation is just how a leader needs to really be the leader their people need, not the leader that they want leading them, but actually what is it that your people need and want in order to work at their best? And her other point was, if you don't know, that's okay. Go and seek that feedback. And if it's not from every single person on your team, if you have a large one, start asking and you'll pick up themes that will address what it is that your overall team needs from you. And then that way you can ensure that you're adapting your style and approach to really meet them where they are. The other thing that she talked about is the fact that feedback and recognition isn't the same for every one of your team members. So ensure again, through a feedback gathering process, that you're really learning about what each individual needs when it comes to recognition, when it comes to the feedback that they want regarding their performance, regarding their opportunities, their career path, so forth and so on. I just love this conversation because It was simple but very powerful, and I hope you feel the same. Now, if you enjoyed this topic, we have so many more and we have many more coming in the future. So be sure to be following the show. You can go to ballofirecoaching.com/podcast and follow us there. Follow us on our Shedding the Corporate Bitch YouTube channel as well as on Apple, Spotify, or anywhere you get your streaming. Thank you for being here this week, and I'll look forward to seeing you right back here for another episode.

Bye. Thank you for tuning into today's episode of Shedding the Corporate Bitch. Every journey taken together is another step towards unleashing the powerhouse leader within you. Don't miss any of our weekly episodes. Subscribe to our podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you love to listen. And for those who thrive on visual content, catch us on our Shedding the Bitch YouTube channel. Wanna dive deeper with Bernadette on becoming a powerhouse leader? Visit balloffirecoaching.com to learn more about how she helps professionals, HR executives, and team leaders elevate overall team performance. You've been listening to Shedding the Corporate Bitch with Bernadette Boas. Until next time, keep shedding, keep growing, and keep