Tips and Advice from Guy Kawasaki on Shedding the Bitch Radio

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Well, happy, happy Tuesday everyone, and welcome to Shitting The Bitch Radio. And I'm so excited about today's call. As probably you have seen through all of the communications and the marketing that we've been doing around it. And the phones are lighting up already, and so is the chat room. So I'm gonna dive right in it and not mess around and say hello to Guy Kawasaki. How are you, Guy?

I'm good, good morning.

Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, wherever you might be. And hopefully things are well in your world.

Yes, they absolutely are. I hope the same is true for you.

It is, it is. It finally cooled down in Atlanta with a little bit of rain, hoping for some more. But yes, the world is good, and I've been so looking forward to this interview, as I'm sure so many people have. And I'm going to jump right in by just doing a quick bio review for everyone, and then I really want to dive into talking about your book, Enchantment. So Guy Kawasaki is the co-founder of Alltop.com, an online magazine rack of popular topics on the web, and a founding partner at Garage Technology Ventures. Previously, he was the chief evangelist of Apple. Kawasaki is the author of 10 books, including what we're going to talk about today, which is Enchantment: The Art of Changing Hearts Minds and Actions. Guy has written over 10 books, and beginning in 1987 with The Macintosh Way. So you really need to go to guykawasaki.com and check out all of his books. And as well as you can pick up his, uh, Enchantment book, his latest book, on his website as well as out on amazon.com. And again, the phones are buzzing and so is the chat room. And if you do have questions, we're not going to be able to take all of them because we do want to get some information out of Guy as well as your questions. But please call 1-818-572-2910. And again, go to his website, guykawasaki.com. So Guy, I have to ask, this is such an interesting angle on a business book slash what I'll even call kind of a personal growth type of book to really learn how someone really should show up each and every day in both their business and their life, which we talk a lot about here at Shedding the Bitch Radio. Why did you take this particular angle with this particular book?

I sat down one day and decided that for about 2.5 decades I've been trying to enchant people, first with Macintosh and then with various software products and websites. So, I thought it might be a good thing that other people can use as they try to introduce new products and services.

Absolutely, and I love, it's just a coincidence, fate I guess, but the whole idea of and concept of enchantment is such a beautiful word. What is your thinking, what is your definition and your application of that enchantment word?

Well, I define enchantment as a process of creating a relationship with others that's deep, long-lasting, mutually beneficial, and voluntary. So it goes beyond, you know, sales and promotion. A very good example is many computer companies try to promote you or close you into buying a computer. Apple, by contrast, enchants you. You start internalizing Apple's values and the next thing you know you're buying a computer, an iPhone, an iPod, iPad, and you know, buy anything. And I think that's the difference.

Yeah, I would absolutely have to agree with you. And yet, okay, so a lot of our listeners on the radio show, they own small businesses and they'll often, you know, they'll often think that it doesn't apply to them. So what tips can you give them from your book, which there's many by the way, everybody, in regards to how even a small business can get enchanted?

Well, arguably a small business has a better situation because with a small business, you only have to affect yourself and perhaps a few employees, where if you have 100,000 employees, trying to get them to all be enchanted, is, shall I say, more challenging. True. The key for small businesses and with its daily interactions, I think you can create a very, very loyal customer base, and it starts with 3 basics: likability, trustworthiness, and quality. And arguably, if you have those 3 things, you don't need to buy my book.

Well, actually, I'm going to recommend that everybody does because I was kind of— I I was kind of surprised and nicely reminded, I guess, of some really kind of, maybe people, I think they're basic 101 and maybe other people don't, but you talk about telling a story and the importance of telling a story as a means of being enchanting to someone else in your business and/or in your life. Can you explain that a little bit more around telling a story?

I think people like to hear stories. Perhaps it's in our DNA. Many organizations, however, make the mistake. They stand up and they start using words like patent pending, curve jumping, paradigm shifting. They use all the vernacular of their industry. That's wrong. You should tell a story about why you created this product or service. You and your buddy were in a garage and you decided that There must be a better way. Why is it that computers are large and expensive and hard to use? Computers should be small, easy to use, and cheap. So why can't there be a personal computer? So you started Apple. And that kind of story, that kind of hook about why you created the product or service is much more powerful than saying we're ushering in the second paradigm of computing today, which is meaningless to most people.

Right, and yet so many, even the people that I witness every day in networking events, they'll get up and start talking about their feature functions as opposed to the story behind why they wake up each and every day and work so hard within the business that they're in, and that's your point, right?

Exactly. Yes, exactly.

Yeah, and you know, and I would think it takes practice to learn how to tell a story, but at the same time Sometimes we only have 30 seconds, 60 seconds, and that script isn't a long one. So that's a great, great point.

I think most of the time you only have 30 or 60 seconds.

True. That's so true. I get the fortunate opportunity to talk to you for 25 or 30, but yes, you're absolutely right. We typically only have that elevator, as they say. Now, another point that you brought up in your book is reminding people of the ABCs, the, you know, always be closing. And yet some people get really kind of like, oh my God, I don't want to be selling, I'm not a good salesperson, blah blah blah. That's not necessarily what you mean. Could you go into that a little bit more?

Yeah, you know, Closing, it has certain connotations. I don't think there's anything wrong with trying to close people in the sense of completing a transaction. However, sometimes people put the close too early. So my key message here is that having enchanted people, one of the logical consequences or next steps is to close them. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

Right. No, well, and not only that, but I find too in working with small businesses every day, whether they're solopreneurs or not, they don't try to work it to a yes or a no. They kind of just say, "Okay, I've tried," and that would be it. And your point of closing is to actually drive people to a yes or a no so at least you know, kind of, you know, you can move on or you need to keep trying. Is that right?

Yes, yes, absolutely.

Very cool. And again, I'm going to remind everyone, if you do have questions, we have a lot of people on the phone or the chat room. And if you have, if you want to ask a question, just raise your hand. You can hit a button if you're actually online. And if not, I will jump in in a couple minutes. I just wanted to talk to Guy. Guy, You really also talk about enchanting your own employees, which we always, you know, think about our customers but not necessarily internally. So could you share with us some of the thoughts you had in your book in regards to enchanting employees?

Sure. Well, first, my thinking is that it's very difficult for your employees to enchant customers if your employees aren't enchanted themselves. So this is a very practical reason why you should enchant your employees is because once you do so, then it will enable them to enchant your customers, which is just great for everybody. And I think the key to enchanting your employee, assuming that at least you pay them reasonable amounts, is that You provide them with what Daniel Pink calls MAP, excuse me, Mastery, Autonomy, and Purpose, which is you say to your employees that I will enable you to master new skills while working autonomously towards a higher purpose. And if you do those 3 things, you know, you pretty much will enchant your employees, which is a very, very important thing and often overlooked.

And do you think someone, uh, like for instance, I have, I have, you know, a good number of people on my team, whether I pay them or I've enchanted them to come on board and just, you know, help me and work with me, uh, for future benefit. But, um, do you think if once I finish reading this book, I can change the environment and the culture that I currently am at so people don't think they have to like start from scratch? They can actually alter and change things now?

Well, you know, I wish I could guarantee you that a $20 book could do this. You know, it ain't that easy. But yes, I believe so. It will definitely help significantly. Absolutely.

Okay, great. Well, I do have someone who wants to ask a question, so let me check in with 540. Hi, this is Bernadette and Guy. Do you have a question for Guy?

This is Hugh Baloo.

Hi, Hugh. How are you?

I am good. I'm interested in this team thing. And as far as alignment, I want to ask Guy how goals and action plans build alignment with team members and What's his strategy for doing that? Well, there is of course the case to be made that everybody has to be on at least a similar page. You know, I think in many organizations they'd be lucky to just be in the same book, much less on the same page. But it helps to be on the same page so that you understand your product offering, your service offering, totality of the package that your company offers. From a customer standpoint, receiving mixed messages and conflicting messages is hardly enchanting. That is one of the beauties of Apple. Steve Jobs wrote the book and he dictated which page everybody should be on and that's why Apple is so consistent. There are certain benefits to to a benign autocracy, which is what Apple is. So yeah, get everybody on the same page. I think one of the key ways to do that is to create a mantra for the organization as opposed to a mission statement. A mission statement is typically 50 or 60 words long. A mantra is typically 3, 4, 5 words long. So a mantra, for example, for eBay would be, "Democratize commerce." And my personal mantra for My life is empowered. And it starts at that level. If you can get everybody on the same page, understanding what the organization stands for, why it exists, that is a great start.

Hey, Guy, I don't know if it—

I think Bernadette can vouch for this. I come into this, guys, from years as a musical conductor. People are enchanted and empowered and inspired by leadership. But they are responsible for their own, making their own music. But I think as leaders, like Steve Jobs, he has definitely conducted that orchestra. And he wrote the score. And he directs the tempo. And he owns the building. Yeah, he owns the building. So I very much resonate with what you're saying. So thank you. Thank you.

Thanks, Hugh, for calling in, and it's nice to hear your voice. And Guy, I would like to have you repeat only because I'm not sure if it was my side that cut out or yours, but what was your personal mantra?

Empower people.

Okay.

That's what I try to do.

Right, right. That's short and sweet. And what would you say, what was Apple's internal mantra?

So, for the Macintosh division, it was— seems a little long, but it was to increase people's creativity and productivity. Ah. Which is what Macintosh did.

Right, right. Yeah, just a little bit. And they're trying to improve ours, so that works all around. That's cool. All right, now. In your chapter 6, you talk about enchanting all of the influencers, which kind of denotes that, you know, some people pick and choose or they narrow down who they interact with and might want to influence or enchant. Could you go into that a little bit more?

Yes, I think many organizations and many people sometimes assume who is the decision maker and they sort of decide that they are going to focus on that one decision maker. But in many cases you really don't know who the decision maker might be and who the influencers are. So I would not, for example, assume it's always the man of the house. Right. Be wrong 80% of the time, right 20% of the time.. It could be the daughter, the son, the grandfather. In my case, it's really the daughter. You need to consider all the influences, not just your assumed influence maker, because many, many times that's wrong. It would be a big mistake to do that.

Yeah, I don't know that I caught it clear whether or not it was there in the book, but So what I hear from everything that we've been talking about is someone, an individual, has to be a really good questioner. They have to be really able to ask questions and really then interpret it and read between the lines and get the information that they need as a means of enchanting/influencing other people. Is that a fair assessment?

Very fair, yes. Yes, you got it right on.

Yeah, yeah, because I do tend to find that individuals will come to me or I encounter them where they really show up with a blank piece of paper. There's been no preparation, there's been no thought. I'll have vendors show up to want to work with me and, you know, they're sitting in front of me without a notepad and/or, you know, if a computer was involved like social media or branding or whatnot, they have nothing in front of them and, you know, judgments, we make judgments, what, in like 3 milliseconds of a second? And that will immediately draw judgment.

It's pretty amazing, huh, sometimes how lousy people are at doing this. You would think that these are fundamentals. I mean, arguably my book should not be necessary, but I haven't exactly seen that to be true.

Right. No, that's why I think, and I'm going to remind everyone, I'm talking to Guy Kawasaki, and he's got this great book, Enchantment. It's a new— and Guy, I actually videotape these shows as well, so I'm actually holding up your book at the moment. And everyone, really, it is a good kind of basic 101, but if you're not paying attention to these things and you're not doing these things, then you're missing a lot of opportunity. And I just find too often that whether you're looking for a job, you're looking for a customer, you're interviewing a vendor, you're bringing on new people, you have to be prepared. You have to think through, you know, how you're coming across to other people. And that's what I have gained so far. I'm about 88% through or 85% through his book. But that's what I've gained as a result of reading his book. And I have too many, too many little notepads and things inside it, so I've got even some reminding of myself to do. Thanks, Guy. Thanks for giving me more work. Now, you talk at the end, toward the end of the book, of kind of resisting certain enchantment. And I, and I, like I said, I haven't finished it completely. So could you go into that a little bit more? Because people would be like me saying, why would I resist enchantment? But could you go into that?

Yeah, you know, people may find this amazing, but I've written a book about how to be enchanting, and I ended the book with how to resist being enchanted. And the reason why I did this is that not everybody who tries to enchant you has your best interest at heart. So I want you to be able to resist enchantment when it's necessary. So I spent a whole chapter about this, and I think it's very important that people have this skill also because, you know, I mean, not everybody is looking out for you, so you need to be cautious of this. I also think that if you understand what people may be doing to Resist your enchantment, it will make you a better enchanter.

Oh, oh, that's such a good point. I love that point. Well, I love both points because one, I fall prey too often. I'm getting really good at it, but I'm still kind of wishy-washy, but I fall prey to being enchanted easily, being impressed, you know, them saying all the right things, and yet because maybe I didn't do my homework or didn't dig deep enough, all of a sudden I'm very, very disappointed and it can be financially hurtful as well. And on the other side, it's, you know, we don't necessarily keep at the top of our mind that we need to be conscious of enchanting other people in every encounter that we have, because it would add to such productivity and influence that we have, you know, in all aspects of our life. Is that right?

Yeah, I mean, you know, you could case that enchantment or living this lifestyle of enchantment, even if you're not trying to make a sale, it's just a better way to live. Arguably it's easier, the results are better, there's a lot of things to be said for it. I don't want to make the case that the only way you can be successful and happy in life is to be enchanting. It is just one way, but I think it is one way that can work.

Right. Well, and I think we talk a lot, obviously by the name of this radio show and all the work I do, Shutting the Bitch, that is about getting rid of the angst and attitudes, negative mindsets, insecurities, and all these other things that kind of really hold us back from whether it's being enchanting or anything else. And so, you know, it resonates very well, it should with my listeners, as to what your message is. And that's why when I first came across it, I ordered it immediately because we always need reminders in different angles and approaches and thoughts as to what can we do to— whether it is enchanting, it could just be the fact that we're peaceful and we're content and we're happy and satisfied. And as a result, you're going to create and accelerate whatever it is in life that you want. And that's what I have taken away from your book as well.

I could not have said it better.

Yeah. So, tell the listeners and everybody, if you do have questions, because there is quite a number of people in the chat room and on the phone lines, if you have a question, raise your hand. And I'll reach out to you. If you have a comment and you're on the chat room, feel free to send it, hit your question through there. If not, you can just hang on and listen. That's perfectly fine as well. So Guy, what are you doing with your book right now? Are you out on tour? Is there a place that people can find you and come and meet you? Because I'll tell you what, when I announced this show, I've had some great guests. But when I announced this show, I had a tremendous amount of email correspondence going back and forth. So are you out and about?

Oh yeah. Yeah, you know, my summer is probably just ending today. I had a very, very nice August. From March till end of July, I was constantly on the road. It's interesting, in the old days when you announced a book like this, you went on a 2-week tour, you hit 8 cities, you try to get a radio show in the morning, TV at lunch, signing at night, next city.

Right.

And that's the old days. Today, the way a book tour works is you're constantly doing blog talk radio or a webinar with GoToMeeting or GoToWebinar. And you're doing it remotely, plus you're doing large keynotes, so it's never-ending. You used to be lucky to do about 30 events. I've probably done, I bet you 200. I have done a lot of events, virtual events as well as analog events. And it's a different world.

It is.

I don't know what's harder, doing 200 virtual events or 30 live events?

Well, I would think apart from maybe the travel, the virtual events could be quite draining as well. And yeah, certainly not if it's with people like you. Yeah, why, thank you guys. Thank you, thank you, thank you. And everybody, I do want to remind you, go to his website, galkawasaki.com. Check out his— he's got everything out there. He has his books out there, he has his speaking engagements, he has ways of engaging him for a speaking engagement, and you can, you know, see exactly what Guy's got going on and checking him out. So are there any last tips that you could provide to our listeners around the subject matter of enchanting The art of changing hearts, minds, and actions.

Well, I just want to remind people the 3 basics, which is likability, and I'll give you an example. That would be Richard Branson. The first time I met him, he asked me if I flew on Virgin. I said no, so he got on his knees and started polishing my shoes with his jacket. There is trustworthiness. The great example of trustworthiness is the Zappos, you know, millions of women buy shoes without trying them on. How much more trustworthy can you get than that? Yeah. And the third component is quality, and the example of that is Apple. So basically you want the quality of Apple, you want the likability of Richard Branson, and the trustworthiness of Zappos. And if you have those three things, you've got 90% of the battle. Wow.

Yeah, and I just highlighted Tony on his book, Delivering Happiness, is great too. So everybody, you know, run out and get that one as well. I just highlighted him my author highlight online. I'm gonna have to find something from Richard Branson, I guess.

By the way, you know, I have a special going on with my book. Oh good. If you buy Enchantment anywhere in the world, any format, you can get a free copy of Gar Reynolds' Presentation Zen.

Oh, fabulous.

Presentation Zen is one of the best books about making presentation. Right. So that's a special offer that's out there. Is there a way that you can send a link to your audience?

Absolutely. Send it to me. I saw, I saw your email earlier. Send it to me and I will certainly get it out along with the recording and the video. I'll make sure it gets out to everybody. Absolutely.

Okay.

Okay, any last minute, any last words, Guy, before we go to sign off?

No, I think we covered it.

Yeah, thanks. And again, everyone, you know, the book, the book, I can't say, you know, anything more about it. It's easy read. It did take me a few days, you know, to read it, but only because the fact that, look how many, if you can see it on the video, and you know, you'll see all the little marks I've had to make in it. But pick up Enchantment, look at his other books, guykawasaki.com, and also you can buy it on Amazon. But check out— wait for the link actually, and I'll get the link out with the recording of the show. And then Guy, thank you so much for joining us today. I really appreciate you taking your time to talk with all of us. Thanks everybody that is on the line and sitting out on chat. We look forward to it. And come back next Tuesday at noon, and we will— actually, Guy, I'm gonna replay this next Tuesday because I have to be out on an engagement myself. So I'm gonna actually replay this recording, so we'll get a double, a double shot for you. But come back every Tuesday at noon. We typically do have new episodes and And we have some great guests coming up in the next several weeks. So this is Bernadette Boas with sheddingthebitch.com and Shedding the Bitch Radio. And a huge thank you to Guy Kawasaki. And to everyone out there, have a fabulous, fabulous day. Thanks, Guy.

Thank you. Take care.

Bye-bye.

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