Using Neuroscience to Achieve Leadership Greatness with Karen Brown

Welcome to Shedding the Corporate Bitch, the podcast that transforms today's managers into tomorrow's powerhouse leaders. Your host, Bernadette Boas, executive coach and author, brings you into a world where the corporate grind meets personal growth and success in each and every episode. With more than 25 years in corporate trenches, Bernadette's own journey from being dismissed as a tyrant boss to becoming a sought-after leadership coach and speaker illustrates the very essence of transformation that she now inspires in others with her tips, strategies, and stories. So if You're ready to shed the bitches of fear and insecurity, ditch the imposter syndrome, and step into the role of the powerhouse leader you were born to be. This podcast is for you. Let's do this.

Do you or your team members have blind spots that are negatively impacting your performance and you're not sure how to discover them so shifts can be made? Well, our guest Karen Brown of Exponential Results is here to help you unlock your hidden potential and embrace self-awareness to actively identify areas of weakness that may be hidden in the subconscious. So you and/or your team members become powerhouse contributors to the business. So stay with us. Welcome, welcome, welcome to Shedding the Corporate Bitch, the podcast that transforms female corporate executives into powerhouse leaders by showing them how to shed the challenges and overwhelm along with any fear, insecurity, self-doubt, and negativity holding them back. I'm your host, Bernadette Boas of Ball of Fire Coaching, bringing you powerhouse discussions each week to share tips, advice, and sometimes tough love so you create the riches in your work and life you deserve. Let's do this. Welcome, welcome, welcome to Shedding the Corporate Bitch, the podcast that transforms female corporate executives into powerhouse leaders by showing them how to shed the challenges and overwhelm along with any fear, insecurity, self-doubt, and negativity holding them back. I'm your host, Bernadette Boas of Ball of Fire Coaching, bringing you powerhouse discussions each week to share tips, advice, and sometimes tough love so you create the riches in your work and life you deserve. Let's do this. Karen, how are you? Welcome, welcome, welcome. I'm so excited you're here.

Oh, I'm so thrilled to be here. Thanks for having me.

Yeah, you're very welcome. This whole conversation around neuroscience is gonna be fascinating. I can already tell, but at the same time, I really wanna get our viewers and listeners to really understand who Karen is because you also have, I read in your profile, some fascinating background. So share with us a little bit about Karen.

Okay. The really short version is, so I'm in Colorado and I grew up being very active, athletic. That is not to say naturally talented at any kind of sport in particular. I played individual sports and team sports, loved them all from fastpitch softball, was on a statewide winning undefeated girls team. Loved it. I played on an all-boys basketball team when I was in middle school. That was a great experience. Just did really challenging things that just really opened me up and piqued my interest and also pushed me to the edge, pushed me to my, my then limits. And that same pattern emerged throughout the rest of my life. And at age 14, I saw the Ironman World Championships on Wide, Wide World of Sports. Wow. Such a throwback right now. And I was struck. I was mesmerized. It was like watching a train wreck. I didn't have any clue what this was. I had never heard of the Ironman, much less a triathlon. I didn't know anything about that world. And it was the year that Julie Moss and Kathleen McCartney competed. And it, the drama that unfolded was just unbelievable. And pretty soon I found myself sitting on the couch crying. All these big emotions came out.

Wow.

14 years old. I don't know why I'm crying watching this crazy, crazy-ass sport. And suddenly I realized that I wondered if I had inside me what it took to do something awesome, audacious, gigantic, extraordinary like that. Right.

Yeah.

Wow.

And so you went off to do it?

No, I held myself back from it for 25 years, not realizing why until in 2010, I was in a class, a business class of all things. And I learned about behavioral patterns and blind spots in particular. And how they are created, how they are repeated, and then how we can change them.

Okay.

That last item being of incredible significance. And so I immediately wrote down my Ironman dream that I had been holding myself back from for so long and worked through it. I changed it. I transformed it in that moment, started to cry again. The instructor came over to me, put his hand on my shoulder, and he said, what's going on for you right now? I shared with the class what was going on, brought everyone else to tears, and he ended up asking me, okay, what are you going to do now? I said, I am pursuing the Ironman. And within 2 weeks, I hired a coach who was actually number 3 in the world at age 50. A badass female, I bought a tri bike and I had started training.

Damn. Whoa. That is absolutely awesome. And I'm hoping that you're going to share the rest of that story as we continue talking. Yes, I will. Yes. Oh, that's fascinating. I've had a similar journey. This isn't the time for it, but sometime we're going to have to share. We're going to have to swap stories. Because it is those pivotal moments. I wrote that down. I'm like, it is those pivotal moments where we find our calling, where we find our passion. And so that brings us forward to the conversation we wanna have about neuroscience and how neuroscience can help one really break through, you know, their, their fears and insecurities, what we call bitches here in this world.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Uh, to really achieve greatness. So. Help us understand what neuroscience is first, and then let's delve into and get deeper and deeper into it.

Okay. So macro level neuroscience is the study of the neurosystem and our brain and how we function within it. And so breaking that down much, much smaller and further, what I learned leading up to and then throughout my Ironman journey. Which ended up only being 2 years, but there's a, a great story after that. What I learned is that all of our brains work the same way, which is in something called behavioral patterns. Any pattern that is created in our subconscious mind, and for the sake of argument and for examples in our conversation, let's just define the subconscious and unconscious mind as the same thing. They are actually two different levels, but I don't want to geek out on everybody, over-science everybody, and get caught up in that conversation about which is which and how they both work. So these behavioral patterns are how all of our brains operate. And they are patterns that are set up at various parts, pivotal moments in our life and career when we're trying to achieve something. And it's like our subconscious mind actually hears us. And, and says, oh, oh, Karen wants to achieve the Ironman. Okay. What is it going to take to do that? Okay. And then it forms a pattern that either serves me well to get it or protects me against the danger that it might perceive. So this is, this is from our prehistoric brains, caveman brain, I like to call it cavewoman brain, caveperson brain. And it was really just there to keep us safe and to help us survive another day and to perpetuate the species. The thing is we don't need it anymore. And so when I was going through my Ironman journey and really came face to face with all these behavioral patterns that I was, that ended up holding me back, then I realized, okay, this is the thing. This is the difference maker. And I, I translated that into senior leadership. I was also an ascending senior leader. I had certain things that were holding me back that I really couldn't name. I couldn't pin down. I couldn't pinpoint. And so it, it, it was interesting how one part of my life was exactly mirroring the other part of my life, right? So I figured one out and then I figured that allowed me to figure out the other one because it was the same thing. And behavioral patterns like you talk about in your show notes. I'm not good enough. I had that thought when I thought about competing in the Ironman World Championships over that 25-year span that, oh, everybody that competes in the Ironman World Championships are elite athletes. They're way up here. I'm this nothing recreational lowly athlete down here at the bottom. Like there's no way I will get there.

Right.

Because what our brain does then when we come across these these behavioral patterns and what end up being blind spots because we aren't aware of them consciously. That's what a blind spot is. Then that, that those thoughts that ensue right after the behavioral pattern appears is what holds us back from it. We think that they're facts, that they're factual thoughts. They aren't though. They're just false information appearing real. And so once I realized that, yeah, it's fear. It's fear. It's false emotion appearing real.

Yes. Yeah.

Yeah. I sometimes use a different acronym with a different 4-letter word starting it, but it doesn't really matter. It's all the same. So, and all of us have the capability to recognize these behavioral patterns, specifically our blind spot, usually with the help of a certified coach because this, this takes some doing to learn this and then to be able to, um, also be certified neurolinguistically to pick up the behavioral patterns that are going on for yourself or other people, and then to be able to know how to transform them effectively. Um, the cool part about this though, and why I, uh, immediately realized this is the Exponential Results Difference Maker. Is I was always, you know, 25 years as an up-and-coming leader, a great individual contributor, then got on the leadership track and, you know, was quickly ascending and suddenly found myself leading a big team and really didn't know how to bring out their best performance. I knew how to bring out mine, but that's not to say that everybody else was the same and I knew, knew how to bring out theirs.

Absolutely.

So.

Yeah.

So I started asking and soon realized that I was coaching team members and I was basically just helping them transform their blind spots and moving obstacles out of their way. And then fell into neuroscience and the light bulb went on and I went, oh, wait a minute. Okay. This is the difference maker because anytime we work in our unconscious or subconscious mind, whatever you want to refer to it, it has almost the speed of light processing speed compared to a very pedestrian 100 to 150 miles per hour processing speed of our conscious mind.

Okay.

Also, the volume that we process with our unconscious mind is 2 100 billion bits of information per second. Staggering. Compare that to, compare that to the processing or the, the volume processing of our conscious mind, which is only 2 million bits per second. So it makes total sense that, ah, this is where you can go higher, faster. And it actually ends up being, I'll say, simpler, not easy, simpler than, uh, all the other traditional methods I've ever seen over what's now almost a 30-year career in the leadership development space.

Right.

Well, can I try to simplify it even more so? Yeah. By saying, and you, you know, call me out if this isn't the right interpretation. But it's, for me, it comes down to, because I start getting overwhelmed when I hear billions and millions. I start like hyperventilating. Does it come down to almost words matter? What we tell ourselves, you know, even unconsciously, subconsciously, is what we are then creating for ourselves. And if we could tap into what that is, like you said, those false emotions, I believe you said false emotions appearing real. If we get tapped into those and understand them and find proof against them or for them, then we can make these changes.

Almost. Yes. I love the simplification because I have a, my mind operates in a really simplistic way. Actually, all of ours do, but That's an aside. Yes. However, what you're talking about is conscious self-talk, right? Words matter. Yes, they do. But what you're talking about is our conscious self-talk thoughts, how we are talking to ourselves every day. What I'm talking about is a much deeper level that we're not consciously aware of. Like, uh, every comparison of me to Ironman World Championships athletes. Right. Uh, it was never conscious thought.

Right.

Yeah.

I just held, I just kept holding myself back from it and I couldn't figure out why. Same thing in, in business and in leadership. I would do certain things and then there were other things I wouldn't do. And I kept scratching my head, being a pilgrim of self-discovery, wondering why, what makes up the difference and how can I unlock that? That what ends up being our potential. Right.

And because what you're saying is until we do, it could be what's causing any one of our listeners or viewers from being stuck and frustrated and beating themselves up as to why aren't they where they are and have what they want? Is that right?

Why aren't they where they want to be and have what they want? Exactly. Yes., and it's also the key to elevation, elevated performance, elevated thinking. You know, so we work with a lot of leaders who are great already and they wanna improve. They wanna find the next rung, the next gear. You know, they wanna go from great to elite. This is how you do it. It's, it's very, it was very much the same in professional sports. So if you worked with a professional sports psych— psychologist, they would be doing the same thing with you. Only this had never been applied to leadership development in the corporate space. I often wondered why.

Right. Right. So what are you seeing? Okay, so now that we understand that, what are you seeing as far as even what you call bad leadership habits? What are you seeing that might be, you know, being reflected as a result of someone not having tapped into, you know, those beliefs, those emotions. What are those bad leadership habits? Oh boy.

How long is your show? No, I'm kidding. Okay. So I have a, a list, a short list of 6, and they're really from an article of mine that I wrote and got picked up by a major magazine or major publication. But I'll share the lack of each one of these, and that, that'll basically suffice as our list. And they're, they're in order of importance, I believe, from, you know, being in the field for 25 years, having my own practice for 12, and working, you know, over 20,000 hours with senior executive leaders in every kind of industry. Number 1 is a lack of self-awareness. Number 2 is inauthenticity. So that leader that is putting on that fake persona to come to work every day and, or is holding back who they really are, you know, just kind of puts up a wall. I've worked with a lot of leaders like this in the past, just puts up a wall, like, and you can't get any further than that wall. They won't share anything more about themselves, how they operate. Yeah.

I used to be in it. I know that one really well.

Yeah. Yeah. There, there's still some of this out there. I'll just say some of it. Better than it used to be, but it does still exist. Not working on yourself. So the leader that feels like, oh, well, I've arrived because I'm the CEO or I'm the COO or I'm the president or whatever. I'm good now. I'm arrived. It's everybody else that needs work. Man, if, if they're thinking or saying that or not working on themselves, yeah, that's just, we might as well put a big red and white target on the top of their head.

Right.

Being inconsistent. And what I mean by this is not aligning your words and actions. Many times what we see is a leader will talk a good game. They'll say the right things, but then they won't follow it through with the same actions. You cannot say one thing and do another. People are just too keenly aware now. So being inconsistent. Not speaking kind truths. T-R-U-T-H-S. Now, what I mean by this is we've spent a lot of time at Exponential Results studying trust and how the most highly functional teams operate, where trust is you know, the foundation of their operating system. And something that goes right along with trust is for people to know that you're going to not only have their back, but you're going to speak kind truths to them, meaning you're going to be kind when you maybe give feedback. And you're going to use I statements rather than you statements, and you're going to sit next to them Literally and figuratively, you know, you'll do this one-on-one. You'll never do it publicly. You'll never talk to another team member about this person. Yeah. And, you know, you will be their partner. We, we use that term a lot in working with our clients and individuals and teams and even enterprise-wide because, you know, the word boss tends to have this very negative connotation to it. And so we've, our clients have found great success with reframing and changing that terminology that they use to capture their relationship with their leader. I hate using the word boss, so I use leader. And we change that to partner or thinking partner or thought partner. And when you as the leader then are having a conversation like that with a team member, it's important that you say, hey, I'm, I'm going to step into being a thought partner now, or I'm going to step into my partner role with you. So number one, they can trust you that that conversation is going no further and that you are 100% supportive of them, them, their growth, what they're sharing with you, that you preserve that, you hold that special space with them. And you want to see them succeed no matter where that is. If it's continues to be inside the current company, if it's somewhere else, if it's a hybrid, whatever, you want to see them succeed.

Yes.

How speaking kind truths helps.

Yeah. Now, yes, yes. I'm sorry. I cut you off. So say that again.

That, that whole process that I just talked about. Is how speaking kind truths as a leader in, in really any leadership relationship works very well.

Love that. Love it. But I want you to go back to one part that you said, and that is when you are speaking kind truths to someone and maybe giving them feedback, you're using I versus you. Mm-hmm. And yet a lot of even the individuals that I speak to when we talk about accountability, they get confused because You know, they wanna make sure that they're not taking on someone else's, you know, responsibility or behavior or performance. They're holding someone else accountable, but yet you're saying also I versus you. So explain that when it comes to the kind truths.

Okay. So when we use you statements, if we were talking and I said, Bernadette, you know, you missed the mark, you know, in this last performance evaluation or in the last, this last milestone of this project. What it tends to do, cuz we, we talked earlier about how important words are and words matter. Well, again, neurolinguistics, which is the science of words and how they work for us. So if I said that whole you statement, you would almost reflexively become defensive.

Yes.

And the tendency would, yep, exactly. You would become defensive. You would start to try to explain or justify or or rationalize or something, and there would ensue a conflict, a very unproductive conflict. And then probably somebody's gonna shut down. Yeah. Uh, that's actually my last on the list, which is any leader that won't engage in productive conflict that doesn't learn how to do that. Unproductive conflict right now costs us somewhere in the neighborhood of $535 billion a year in the US. Wow. Now think about that. This is rampant.

Wow.

Yeah.

People shying away from pulling back from conflict or leaning all the way in, into a very unproductive conflict, right? And then everybody else involved falls somewhere on that spectrum of conflict, whether it's gonna be productive or unproductive. And then you end up just dragging everybody through the mud. However, getting back to I statements rather than you statements, like many of us have probably learned in therapy or couples therapy, marriage counseling, if I'm speaking to anybody in the audience who's done that right now, you learn how to use I statements. So if we're in a leadership relationship, I would say, Bernadette, I notice, I wonder if I could share something that I noticed in the recent past. You would say, yeah. And then I would say, so our expectations of the results for the milestone that we just checked in on a couple weeks ago, I noticed that we fell short of them. Well, what, what's your thought on what happened?

Nice.

Then, then I'm treating it, I'm, I'm treating it also in a neutral way, more factually rather than Well, you failed, you didn't perform, you did this or you didn't do that. Yeah. No.

And it comes across and that also came across as, and I'm here to support you. Like, you know, you, you know, you might have missed the mark. However, I am here and I'm observing it and I want to know how I can help. Yes. No, the defensiveness, you know, and combativeness risk is minimized. I love that.

I started with I statements and then I transitioned into a couple of we statements showing that, hey, I'm in this with you. I'm standing in it with you.

Right.

And I'm standing in curiosity. I'm, I'd like to understand what happened and, you know, so that we can, we can get on track. We can find a path together.

Right. Right. Okay. So. Were, okay, so kind truths, which, what, what, which number?

Kind truths is number 5.

Okay. So then you said your 6th one is the productive conflict, correct?

Correct. Yeah. Yeah. Or having, having unproductive conflict is number 6.

Yeah. Right, right, right. And what have you found in your work to be, to be the most effective, uh, strategy for leaders to take? To kind of not look at it as a negative, an ugly thing, you know, conflict, but like you said, a healthy, productive, you know, engagement conversation. How do you position it with your clients so they can overcome that?

Well, first of all, pointing to the results that they actually want versus what they're getting. Okay. That's the eye-opener first. Right. Then we've got to peel back some things. And ask them where their connotation about conflict comes from. Where does that originate? Where did it get created? You know, cuz we all go through life having certain experiences and from those experiences, filters are created that causes us to think about the world in the way that we do, in the very unique way that we do, right? So part of our process in opening up blind spots and awareness of them, and then being able to help leaders change them is we first gotta identify what it is. Okay, so conflict, for instance. What are your thoughts on conflict? How do you usually operate in conflict? They'll tell us whatever the answer is. Then we'll say, okay, tell me where that comes from. Where did you learn that? Where does that originate? When is the first time you remember working conflict in that way, right? Then that's usually when the big aha happens because they really have to stop and think about it for a few minutes and then they'll come up with it. Young adulthood, even childhood, learning it from parents or family or teachers or, you know, trusted adults in our lives. That's typically where it comes from. And then once they come up with it. Then we sort of just set it on the table and look at it, uh, in a benign way and go, okay, so let's just check that out for a second. And they follow through with it. And then, then we say, okay, so what is that really getting you? And why do you think it was created? It was always, always, always created by our subconscious mind to, in a, to keep us safe. Right. To protect perception, a perception of safety, right? Or for maybe we were experiencing pain by going through conflict and therefore our subconscious mind is trying to get the pain to stop. Oh, if I just shut down and run away or I detach or I don't speak into this at all, I just turned a blind eye, then it's over. I, I stop experiencing this pain, right? Because these are always created for specific reasons. Right. And we just have to shine a light on what that reason was.

Yeah.

Then the leader sees that, oh, okay, it was for this reason. That reason doesn't exist anymore. And it's simply a behavioral pattern that is just left over in the system and has just kept on repeating itself.

And do they now though? And do they often find that—

Now they can change it.

Yeah, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Do they often find that when they really look at it, like you said, they realize that it wasn't working for them, that they weren't avoiding it, or they might have been avoiding it and deflecting it, but it was still there? Yeah.

Yeah. They just weren't consciously aware of it. It just, it just became ingrained in their operating system. Right. They would just go, oh, well, that's just how I deal with conflict. That's all they knew, right? Until we really opened up the, the deeper insight into why it was really there and where it came from. Then it became easy, easy and quick to change. Once, you know, you, you come into and you see those things, right? Then all we have to do is set up a system to track every time they have that thought again and interrupt it and then run a new behavioral pattern instead. We actually developed a proprietary app for this that makes it as easy and fast as it can be. So much so that clients have said to me in the past, oh my gosh, how did you know this? This makes it so much easier. And then, you know, like I said, we're dealing with the speed and, or the processing volume and speed of the unconscious mind, which is super fast.

It's.

It's just, just slightly slower than the speed of light. So it makes sense then that when you tap into those patterns, then you can change them, uh, oh, so rapidly.

Yeah. Wow. Now is the, can they find out information regarding that app on your site, your exponential results.com?

Yes. It's called Power Pathways.

Okay.

And we named it that for a specific reason because we're literally just helping you create new pathways using the neuroplasticity in the brain to running a new pattern instead of an old one. Wow.

Okay. So your exponentialresults.com, everybody take a note of that and be sure to look for that. So, okay. So these 6 bad leadership habits, do you find, because you mentioned CEOs you work with, COOs you work with, you probably work up and down the the, the chain. Do you find them that vulnerable and that open, or does that take time? Do you get your clients thinking, oh, I'm just gonna work with Karen for 3 months and I'm gonna be done and I'm gonna be rocking? You know, is, you know, are they that open initially, or does this, this take time for them to, you know, both trust you? And then also kind of break down their walls and admit what might be holding them back from childhood or from something that happened in their teens?

That's a great question. And the answer is it doesn't take time. All it takes is their willingness to improve. And we have this conversation with them up front. That's usually why they make their way to us because they're like, I don't want just through the traditional strategic, this is the situation, what should I do kind of leadership development coaching, right? Because they've, they've gotten the traditional sort of impermanent mediocre results from that, right? They're looking for something greater. And so we have this very open conversation at the beginning. And what I also often say is, so I'll, I'll just speak directly into whatever I pick up on that is going on. I mean, this is my gifting. I am able to pick up on behavioral patterns like that and to spot blind spots quickly. And so I'll, I'll say, hey, look, you came here for a reason. And you know what? Even if you hold back, I'm still going to be able to see it anyway. I'm still going to be able to see it anyway.

So let's just get it off the table.

We might as well, we might as well unearth it and talk about it and change it, right?

Yeah. I love that.

Once I say that, they go, okay, yeah, can't hide anything here.

Right. Yeah. Well, and you become that trusted partner, you know, you called the employer and the employee trusted individuals and you're that trusted partner with them. So you have also, I do want to mention you have a complimentary scorecard that anybody can go onto your site and download, and we'll give you that website in just a minute, but tell us a little bit about the scorecard.

Oh, I'm so excited about this. Thanks for bringing it up. So this is a leadership scorecard that we developed, and I emphasize that because I'm not into psychometric or assessments, psychometric tests or assessments like personality assessments. I think that's a bunch of hogwash. Been there, seen them. You know, there's, they're a dime a dozen, honestly. And I don't think they're very effective, you know, because they say things like, oh, in the leadership world, I'm a golden retriever and you're an otter. And what the hell does that even mean? And what does that get us at the end of the day, right? It just compares us, you know, slices and dices us as a human being, a unique human being, up compared to some mean or some average or some goal. Which is not the, is not what we're after here. We're trying to be our best, to find our best, to realize our infinite potential. It's not, not, you know, fitting ourselves as a square peg into a round hole. No. So what I really like about this scorecard is it's not a psychometric analysis. All it is, is Unearth's current behavior. So that we can see it out in front of us and then we can begin to work on it and change it and make improvements. Yeah, that's it. So it's very, very simple. And like I said, follows neuroscience and it just, it just is. So that's the, the, the most beneficial thing we can all have is that self-awareness, our behavior that just is. So then we can see it and then we can work on it.

Well, I was going to say it really lends itself nicely to creating that baseline of the getting into those leadership habits, you know, building that self-awareness, making sure that you are authentically you, working on yourself, you know, making sure that you are being consistent in your words and your actions. It kind of lends itself as a nice thread through all of that. This is awesome. This has been a fabulous conversation, but I so appreciate you sharing what you have. Because it is a groundbreaking area of leadership growth and development. She also has a book, Unlimited Your Beliefs: 7 Keys to Greater Success. You can always pick that up on Amazon as well, but be sure to go to your exponential results.com, learn all about her, all about her, the services she provides, as well as get that scorecard. And once again, I'm sorry, I didn't make a note of it. The app is called—

it's under Power Pathways.

That's what it is. Power Pathways. I just, you know, check her out. Karen, this has been a fabulous conversation. I so appreciate you contributing.

Thank you for having me on.

Karen was fabulous, wasn't she? Karen Brown of Exponential Results. What a fascinating, fascinating conversation. Absolutely, absolutely loved it. How about you? What did you walk away with? We'd love to hear and understand what comments or questions you might have for myself or Karen. So be sure to follow me on LinkedIn and leave a comment. DM me with a question and I'll even get it over to Karen. All right. And at the same time, if you should ever need to really, you know, dig into what is driving you from being a so-so manager into a powerhouse leader, then feel free to reach out to me. Just go to coachmebernadette.com/discoverycall. Let's have a conversation, and I'll look forward to having you right back here for another episode of Shedding the Corporate Bitch. Take care. Bye.

Thank you for tuning into today's episode of Shedding the Corporate Bitch. Every journey taken together is another step towards unleashing the powerhouse leader within you. Don't miss any of our weekly episodes. Subscribe to our podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever wherever you love to listen. And for those who thrive on visual content, catch us on our Shedding the Bitch YouTube channel. Want to dive deeper with Bernadette on becoming a powerhouse leader? Visit balloffirecoaching.com to learn more about how she helps professionals, HR executives, and team leaders elevate overall team performance. You've been listening to Shedding the Corporate Bitch with Bernadette Boas. Until next time, keep shedding, keep growing, and keep leading.