You Don't Need a Title to Influence Others and Own The Room with DR. BENJAMIN RITTER

Here's some tough love and straight talk for you. If you are confusing titles, positions, and rungs on the ladder with influence, authority, and leadership, then your hard work is going to backfire on you. Why? Because it screams to others, especially those decision makers, that you aren't even focused on the job you're responsible for right now, and therefore you're not working on the right things, let alone working on the things that need to get you to that next level. So our guest, Dr. Benjamin Ritter, is here to ensure you don't go down that path. He is going to show you how you don't need a title to have influence and what it really means to be a leader and how to develop executive presence. You're going to walk away with specific actions around defining your vision, building credibility, engaging as a leader, paying attention to other leaders in your organization, and taking ownership over your leadership presence. So stay with us. Ben, hi, how are you? Welcome. Welcome.

Doing very, very good. Thanks for having me. And I'm very excited to be here.

Well, and I'm really excited to talk about this subject because it comes up more often than I would like to admit. But that's all about, you know, individuals, professionals feeling as if, you know, they have to have a title to have influence. But before we get into all of that, could you share with our listeners and our viewers a little bit about Ben, and where you're from, a little bit about you so we can relate to you.

Yeah, and throughout my life, I think I've tried to let go of titles by doing literally everything and anything that I could experience. So when it comes to like the work environment, I just said, how, how can I make money in the strangest and weirdest and most uncomfortable ways? And so that led me to working at music festivals, handing out granola bars and flyers on street corners, dressing up as movie costume characters I think there's a, there's a, a Civil War museum that has about, I think, like 20 mannequins made off of a mold of my face and upper torso.

Oh wow.

I, I had, um, I had a very, like, when I was younger, I, I kind of fell into like, I don't know who I am mode because I lost what I really cared about from a professional kind of perspective and didn't really have an identity, didn't really feel like I was very socially astute and didn't really understand relationships and building them. And so I went out there just to challenge myself, and that led me down this incredible path of personal development, professional development, and was really at the core of kind of why I do what I do today and how I've kind of let go of the 9-to-5 mentality and have really accepted just a different way of working.

Right, right. Well, and I think, you know, a lot of people don't want to still kind of pull forward the whole, you know, post-pandemic thing. But I think a lot of people are— whether it's a young man like yourself or someone very seasoned like myself, uh, we're, we're reevaluating everything because we're recognizing that, uh, you know, there's more to life than just work. But more so to the subject that we have today, there's a lot more than, than titles and positions. So Help us first understand, kind of, what do you mean by what— helping others understand what leadership really is or what a leader really is? What do you mean by that?

Well, to be a leader, you have to have followers. And so that means that you have to, for some— somehow, some way, shape, or form, create them. So through inspiration, through motivation, through connection, whatever it is. And generally leaders tend to take responsibility for how somebody acts, and that is not what a leader is responsible for. A leader is responsible for curating an environment that inspires people to act, so it motivates them, it attaches to any things that they care about, or maybe they respect you so much that they want to actually show up and help you achieve your goals. But generally a leader is just responsible for the environment and hopefully aligning that environment to the skills, to the interests, to the passions connections that someone needs to really be successful at their job.

Individually, as well as the team, as well as the business?

Well, leader is responsible for promoting and advocating and believing and communicating the vision and the goals of the business overall. So that leads to the goals of the team, and that leads to then aligning them to the goals of the individual. So depending on if people have different goals, then that leader is then responsible for finding a way to align them, to tie them together and help everyone see that they're working with each other for each other and for the business.

Awesome. I love that. Now, but you said a leader has to have followers and taking the social media element out of what people might immediately go to, like I did around followers and likes and all that kind of good stuff. There's There's a population out there as well that believes that they can get followers in a more toxic, bullying, commanding type of way, um, or demanding type of way. And what do you say to those individuals who are considering themselves or others as leaders, but that's how they're operating?

I mean, you're technically, if people are following you, a leader. So they're there are toxic cultures and environments. There are places that expect toxicity and have a very authoritative kind of dictator style of leadership that does not take into account people, uh, but that has some consequences. So some, some individuals are really attracted to that for the benefits that it might provide, or the benefits that the position itself might provide, um, but you can— you lead basically to a lack of loyalty, a high level of competitiveness, Uh, it, it doesn't automatically create high levels of productivity unless maybe you're kind of in more of like an autonomous environment. Um, so there's no right or wrong way of leadership. It's just what is more likely to lead to more productive outcomes for you. Generally, companies care about retention and yes, like there is a material aspect of keeping employees, but generally that's not enough to ensure that someone really does stay. That's why you see companies that tend to have a very toxic environment unless that person is continuously moving up in the company. I mean, they're, they're just like the, the turnover is, you know, a year, year and a half, maybe last 6 months. Like they— but there are, there are cultures that I know because I've worked with clients in them to help them transition out that thrive off of that type of environment. So when you're looking for a position or even looking around, you go, is this, is this part of the culture? Is this just my leader? Or is this a perspective that I have on the environment that maybe I need to get out of?

Yes. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I would absolutely have to agree. I happen to have been one of those toxic leaders in the past. And they, my employees would say, I'm not, you know, I'm not a fan of her personally, and the way she leads, but I learned so much from her. And I actually landed up asking, is that enough? Like, is it like, is that enough? That that you are learning stuff, but dot, dot, dot. So I can definitely— actually, it gives me a little bit of goosebumps— understand the impact, that negative impact you mentioned.

I kind of feel so. I might— this might come back and get me later on, but I grew up working knowing that my job was important. I had to show up and do good work, and I had to be a little more tough and resilient when it came to dealing with the different types of personalities that I faced. I, I think there is a strong benefit to being able to withstand maybe a toxic environment and still be resilient and succeed and do good work and show yourself that it— someone can be a bad person to work around, but that doesn't mean that you have to make your job a bad job to have for yourself and, and for what you're trying to achieve in your career. Being able to deal with toxic people is an important aspect, and I think sometimes we run instead of mediate or try to solve, and that can prevent us from being as successful as we can be.

I love that. So it's almost— or would you say that your philosophy is that until, you know, you don't have to take it on, you don't have to take on their, you know, toxic toxicity, their ugliness, but you can gain a lot from it. And if that's the case, then what do you recommend to individuals to be their barometer, as far as when it's gone too far and it's negatively impacting themselves?

Yeah. Oftentimes, a negative manager or leader or toxic individual working with, you end up creating a story about them. You had one or two negative experiences. And so now you have this belief that they're an evil individual and they're terrible. So every time you see them, your body reacts to that belief. It goes, oh no, danger, danger, danger, danger. And so you're stressed, you're frustrated, you're anxious, and you start having these like physiological, you know, symptoms. So your heart starts beating, you start sweating, you start like getting scared or worried. And that's because of your belief. It's actually not due to that person's actions. And dep— like, and again, might get some flack for this, but I think we have a— we're a lot stronger than sometimes we make ourselves out to be. And it becomes an issue when, when you show up and you hold your boundaries and you hold your space, and then that person has some sort of negative consequence for you. Like, a lot of times I'll work with a client and we, we're reframing some of these beliefs around their toxic leaders and their culture, and you go, well, you've been, you've been allowing it to change your actions. So let's say you get a bunch of calls or messages at night, just don't pick up the phone, don't check your email. And instead, we have individuals saying, I have to respond, because they're worried about the safety of their position. And so if you're able to show up to a position and have your boundaries and, and really lead with them, not try it out and then back off, actually lead in the way that you want to work, and then if if you get negative consequences, and that consequence generally is you're fired, then, then you know that you've left a toxic environment. But often people aren't afraid to push it that far, and they don't believe in themselves enough to go be able to get another position. But there are very specific strategies you can use to navigate the job market and get another position, another job, and you've done it before in the past. Why are we so afraid of leading with these boundaries and, and how we want to curate environment around ourselves? Because I think we just sacrifice our own, our own selves for this toxicity.

Right, right. No, I— that's a beautiful point and a great, uh, truth, uh, that some of us don't even want to acknowledge because that then kind of brings up fear, um, within themselves and self-doubt within themselves, which brings me to our core, um, area that we want to talk about. What is your, what is your thoughts, and what have you been observing and working with others on when it comes to those individuals who are just focused on the title and the position and the rung on the ladder? And what is then therefore the impact to them being so singularly focused on that?

Oh well, constant striving for more and being uncomfortable and unhappy with your current job. And so you're not proud of what you do, and that leads to feelings of anxiety and feeling stuck. And you're not investing in your current relationships, and you're pushing your manager probably for more, but you're not actually doing the work or the stretch work that you need to do to prove that you can get that promotion. So that's one for sure. You know, moving more towards kind of, I think the topic of our conversation though, which is generally if you think you need a title to act a certain way, you're going to be acting in a way that doesn't get you that title. And so like if you're in a meeting and you don't feel like you can speak up because you're not the director or the executive in the room or not the project manager or not the meeting leader, and you're holding back really great information, then you're missing out on one of the best opportunities for you to shine and be visible and to build kind of more connections in the organization and proof that you deserve to grow. I mean, I can't tell you how often I work with a client and like the number one place for you to make a difference and an impact as, as an employee in an organization are meetings. Meetings with senior leaders, with skip levels, with your boss, with across collaborative partners, not working on your own. No one knows that you've worked a 12-hour day, but I can't tell you how often people are in meetings and they're multitasking. They're off video. They're, they're not speaking up and sharing their ideas, as I already mentioned. They're not challenging. They're not calling on people to hear their thoughts. They're really— and they're not showing up as who, like, a leader would show up within that space.

Right. And therefore, though, if they're asking and if it's given to them, the feedback would be, you're not getting this position because what— from what you just said, You're not strategic, you're not contributing, you're not, you know, looking into the future, you're not trying to solve problems. And is that individual sitting there going, yeah, but I, but I know, I, you know, but I can, I can, I can. Or are they not even wanting to put in that effort because they just feel as if they almost like deserve to have the title without the work being put into it?

That, that may— like, I— it does not— never get my words in order. It never— because I'm so— this, like, this concept is, is so frustrating and so true to me personally because it's even happened to me in the past. It's very rare that a performance review or feedback will create engagement in an employee. Generally, I've, I've trained a lot of leaders on performance management systems and performance development and rolled the new programs out. And tell everyone across the organization, no matter what happens during your review, you're probably gonna have 2 to 3 weeks of disengagement from your team. And it's the strangest thing because if I'm a leader and I'm talking to someone and telling them what they need to do to succeed and to grow in a company, and then that person pulls back and doesn't do those things because they're frustrated, what is that telling me as a leader? And so in terms of what you just said, when we get feedback that we need to act a certain way to show up, Instead of pulling back and disengaging, getting angry, ask for specific things that you need to do. And so generally, like, feedback can be pretty poor. Like, you need to have more executive presence. Well, what does that mean? So ask your leader, what does that look like to you? And they're like, well, I don't know. Well, great. In this meeting that we have coming up, what actions do you need to see from me for you to feel like I showed up and I was a leader in that meeting? Or in this one-on-one, what do you need to see? Or in this work or in this project, what do you need to see? And get specific about the things that you're doing. Generally, executive presence relates to your vision and how you're advocating and communicating the vision of the company and your team and your own. So how consistent you are, and are you a champion of the organization? Your, your credibility. So your actual skills that you represent— are you subject matter expert? And do you— that also lends itself to, do you believe in yourself when you're talking? Do you seem confident? Which tends to be also one of the biggest issues and roadblocks for clients that I work with. And then the final piece would actually just be presence, which is we've already talked a little bit about that. Like, are you showing up? Is your video on in the all-hands? Like, are you asking a question? And there are things that people don't like doing because it takes more investment into something that isn't guaranteed. Yes.

Yeah. But okay, so let's start with that vision piece you brought up. At what level do you find— and I don't want to talk titles, But that individual who is only concerned about a title, and they are questioning what— that they're in this room with all these higher-level individuals, what is the vision that you're expressing to them that they need to be focused on? Because what I'll hear a lot is, it's not my vision, it's my boss's or my boss's boss's vision. You know, and then I'll say, well, do you have a vision as far as what it is you're trying to accomplish in your role? Blah, blah, blah. So I want to ask you, so what— when you say vision and that they have a vision, they're communicating the vision, they're working the vision, what is it that you mean?

Yeah, incredible question because it's a combination of things. You first off have— it's never us against them. One of the worst leadership mistakes is saying, 'Well, they're telling me I have to do this.' It's no, you are doing it. It's you. It's not the organization. It's your vision. If it's the organization's vision, that's yours. And generally, people that aren't an executive, they don't feel like they have ownership over that vision. They might not agree with it, and they're very open about telling people that they don't agree with it. And that automatically separates you from being kind of having that level of leadership or being perceived as that level of leader that you could be. But then there's also a combination of when you come into a meeting, when I— when you're walking by, when you're sending me an email, are— who are you? Like, who are you really and what are you working towards? And a lot of leaders or future leaders that I work with have not defined that. They haven't decided what it is, or they haven't proactively defined it, meaning it's there, people see it, but you haven't actually made a, a true effort to figure out what that is. And so what this could be is maybe you care about one specific aspect of the industry, or you are so focused on this future development, and so when you walk into a meeting, people know you're going to move everything towards that direction. Or maybe it is that you have certain values that are very strong when it comes to making sure everyone stays on point or goal-oriented. And so every meeting when someone brings stuff up, you go, yes, what does this mean for our future XYZ or for this specific thing? And so what do you care about and how does, how is that integrated in how you're connecting with people and the things you're saying? And does it relate to the goals of the organization overall as well? And this is, this is, if we can, if you can figure that out, right, then you will, you will build trust, you will build connection. People will see that you have a future at the organization. They will think that you care. They'll think that you're energetic and charismatic because you keep bringing this up. There's a lot of benefits to defining that vision.

Right. There is. And now, touching on the individual who, without a vision, is still expecting that, you know, they need to have a title to influence others and, and own the room, have credibility, so forth and so on. How much of it is driven by ego?

In terms of— let's dive into this question a little bit more and peel it back. So when you say how much of it is driven by ego, do you mean the, the pursuit of the title specifically?

Uh, no, more so the expectation that one deserves to have a title when maybe they haven't, you know, put in the work and earned that next position. Where does like the ego or the lack of ego maybe come into play when it comes to them having that attitude like, I can't influence, I can't be important, I can't have authority if I don't have a title?

Yeah, the pursuit of title can be ego, can be I I deserve this. I'm smarter than these leaders that are in front of me. Can also come though from the fact that they don't feel confident without it, or that everyone around them is getting promoted in their, in their company or their friends, and they wonder why they're not. And so it can come from a place of like disappointment in self. But wanting— so wanting the title can be for a variety of reasons. We're, if we're thinking about ego specifically, then we're, we're in trouble. Because if you feel you deserve something, generally you're not doing the work to get it. And it's very difficult to convince someone that you deserve something by telling them that you do. It's—

wait, you need to repeat that again.

Uh, it's very difficult to convince someone that you deserve something by telling them that you do. And so if you have a very high ego, I'd say take a step back for a moment and look at your actions and say, are you showing up as that next job? I was working with a client yesterday who's very interested in getting the next title and being promoted. You know, you know what the easiest way to get promoted? Act as if you're promoted. Act as if you already had the job and do the work of that person in that job. Talk like the person in that job. Get out of your shell. And so this is where the 'I need the title to be the leader' comes in. Generally, people act like their job, whatever their title is, they act like that title. Well, no, you have to act like the title above you, or the type of the second title above you, to be able to be perceived as a person that has influence, that is that leader, and that deserves that role.

Uh, yes, amen to that. And yet, do you find that a large number of the individuals you work with don't have that mindset?

Don't have— Yeah, not at the beginning, not at all. I generally, I work with individuals that are stuck in their career, even though they've achieved some success, they've kind of hit a little bit of a roadblock, right? And it's, it's generally because they're, they're acting a role. They're, they're leaning into their role. It's like, almost as if you have a name, like if I named you something and I'm trying to think, there's, you know, like they, they say there's a, there was a study once that said more dentists were dentists or something like that. And I feel like if generally people, if they're an intern, they act like an intern. If they're a manager, they act like a manager. If they're not a senior leader or don't have VP in front of their name, they act like whatever their title is. And that's really limiting. Really, really limiting.

And what's causing that individual to do that? Talk about peeling back the onion. What is actually the foundation that's causing them to do that?

It's belief systems that you have to act your— act your job, that you're not allowed to speak up. And I, I work with a lot of individuals from the military, I work with a lot of female leaders, and generally when someone has grown up maybe held back or told that they have to act a certain way or expect a certain formal structure to the work environment or to respect authority, that tends to limit an individual on feeling like they can step out of their box. So generally, and honestly, it all, it all relates to, to confidence and kind of, um, I'd even say the belief in a hierarchy.

The belief in Drill into that, if you would. The belief in a hierarchy?

The belief that you only earn certain responsibilities or capabilities when you have a certain title or position.

Yeah. Oh, it's okay. So that's their current belief, is that this hierarchy is the, the grail, is the law. Yeah, right, right.

I have to act this way. You see this though, it just doesn't impact the work environment. You see this impact, can I talk to a stranger? If someone— I can't tell you how often I work with individuals to help them expand their community because that's how you move up in your career. And they're like, well, I can't— he's a CEO, she, she's an AVP, I can't send them a message, I can't talk to them.

Yes, yes.

Why not? Why not?

They're people.

They go to the grocery store just like you, you know.

Yeah, they are people. They put their pants on just like you do.

Maybe not on Zoom calls, but yeah, right, right.

Right. Well, okay, so we talked about the, the title piece that, that lends itself to the vision, the credibility that you mentioned. Drill into credibility, uh, because initially someone would just say that that's their expertise, but there's a lot more to credibility, isn't— is there not?

I think there's, there's two other things. So there's the expertise, then there's a belief in your expertise, because the belief actually allows you to use your expertise. Or act like you're confident, which can be more impactful than being, than, than being an expert but not being confident. And then the other piece of credibility that I, that I tend to see was really reliability. And so that's, do you follow up and do you follow through? And so can people trust you to do what you say? And do you help people do what they say? These are very, very important traits of a leader. So if you, if there are certain takeaways from a meeting, Are you following up with stakeholders to make sure that they remember? Which are like, why is that my job? And I'm like, well, trust me, that's what leaders do. And then it's, are you doing what you say? So when you put a deadline on something, or are you putting deadlines on something, are you following up or at least communicating that thing maybe is not achievable by that time anymore because it changes? Or are you providing what they need when they need it and providing updates along the way? One of the biggest mistakes I see individuals make that don't have titles is that they don't hold their leaders accountable to things that they say they're going to do, and they just kind of ignore it. Like, I can't tell you how many people I've worked with to go, well, if I don't say anything, then it doesn't matter. And I go, no, the leader, the leader remembers.

It'll come back and bite you. Yeah.

So we have to, we have to do what we say. We need to help people do what they say, and that level of reliability will build trust and credibility within you.

And how do you get someone— how do you get one of your clients to, in my vernacular, shed these limiting beliefs that they have to where even, you know, they feel like, well, I can't tell my boss that he's over— he or she's overlooked something, or something, you know, wasn't followed up on, or I can't like bring up something that he or she may get angry about. How do you work to you know, to shed that from your clients?

Well, sometimes some of, some of the beliefs, you can just challenge them, and all of a sudden it's like a light switch goes off in a client's mind. And so sometimes it's just having the right conversation, because generally people don't have a coach, don't have a confidant where they can bring things up and have someone offer different perspectives and ask certain questions. And so sometimes it's that simple. Sometimes it's as simple as seeing it in a leadership book and reading the right resources and material, because you're constantly reading the same thing over and over again, so it's getting ingrained. But sometimes learning a strategy doesn't help because the belief systems that we have have been programmed and are pretty, pretty in there. They're stuck. And so to get something unstuck, like, imagine that you've glued something to the wall and you either cut the wall out or you very, very painstakingly hold a hair dryer over it and let it melt and then scrape it off. Some beliefs have to be— you need patience and time and constant intention and attention to help change them. And so that's also where your regular coaching can be helpful. So you have this belief, let's talk about it, let's challenge it, let's pick one thing, let's try it out, how'd that go, let's talk about it, let's challenge it, let's ask questions, etc. And so that, that level of attention on something you want to change is important, especially if it's a, a like inner critic or an issue with when it comes to confidence, because generally what, what happens is if we have a negative mindset or a victim-focused mindset, we are constantly thinking thoughts that reinforce it throughout our day. And to change something that we're constantly reinforcing takes a level of also constant reinforcement. And so that could be something as simple as a Post-it note, it can be, it could be something that you listen to or read constantly each day, it could be then regular coaching, which also helps, right?

I did them all. I had to do them all to break down all of mine.

So did I. Yeah, so did I.

For sure, for sure. All right, so as you— as we kind of like bring everything together, so we're getting people shifted out of thinking that they have to have a title to have influence, um, they should have a vision that they're communicating and living and, and showing up with each and every day that builds their credibility. Does that all kind of tie into how someone can really get to a place where they own the room, as you say?

Very much so, especially if they focus on that presence piece. So showing up, being on camera if people are on camera in a meeting, or being in a room, being more vocal. So speaking up. And making sure that you are orienting how you engage with people in a way that matters to them. So being present is important because just got to be there and got to show up. You got to speak. People have to know that you're there. But engaging with audiences can even be more effective if we think about what does this person care about and how do I orient what I'm saying, what I'm sharing, and the work that I'm doing to be more present in that person's mind. And so that means knowing who the audience is too and then aligning your approach to that.

And, and how would you explain and be straight with others to kind of help them to truly understand and to see what impact them actually doing all of those negative things, like not showing up on the camera, not being reliable— how do you illustrate to them the impact that it has on the— and the perception that it has on the people around them, especially decision makers that they're very concerned about.

They're all the people that come to me initially saying that I can't move up in my job and I'm not getting selected for director positions when they're senior managers or when they're wanting to be executives and they're still directors. It's actively influencing their professional success. Because the people, the decision makers, are viewing them as disengaged, that they don't care, happy and comfortable with the position that they're in, maybe not attached to reality if they keep asking for promotions and raises when they're actually not doing anything different than anybody else, self-important. You know, it's just like they— there's, there's nothing that makes you stand out from from other people around you. And so if you want to grow in your career, you have to do the actions that show that and highlight that. And it's more than just the work.

All right, that's awesome. Now, would you— apart from, um, you do have a free ebook, 5 Secrets to Creating a Fulfilling Career, but touching on this particular subject, what is a tip or two that you would have our listeners and viewers even take action on as soon as we're— as soon as they're done listening to this?

Yeah, a good rule of thumb, this is really simple change, is any meeting you're in, you have to ask 2 questions and you have to give 2 ideas. So you're at least speaking up 4 times in every meeting. So try that out. That's one thing you can do. Any comments on that before I give one more?

No, other than if you really real quick want to share, what if someone considers themselves an introvert and, you know, and they— and the two, that's overwhelming to them?

Then do you have to really take a look and see if you want to move up in your career? Yeah, I, I don't have anything else to say to that. It's— if, if it doesn't matter if you're an introvert.

Yep.

You can still turn it on in certain instances. Like, there's a lot of assessments that we give for leaders for selection and development. It's like, yeah, this assessment can say you're a certain way, but if you use that as a crutch, you're never going to get anywhere. You have to do the behaviors that are going to help you be successful. Love it.

Okay, second one.

Uh, second one is to start talking to your manager about a promotion. But not, can I get promoted? Who actually say something along the lines of, I really want to continue growing in my career. I'm really interested in some of the work that you're doing. How can I expand past what I'm doing right now and help you reach some of your other goals?

Nice, nice. Now, since you brought up assessments, I'm going to ask you one last question. Someone doesn't— what is your philosophy around assessments in that? Do— does someone have to wait until someone gives them a formal assessment, or could they be going out on their own and doing their own self-assessment with, like, you know, with their peers, their bosses, others?

I— there's a lot of assessments out there around personality and preferred behavior that I think are good if you have a coach attached to them or an organizational plan attached to them. But one of the most important assessments that someone can do in an organization that doesn't require a paid subscription to something is a 360. And that's asking your direct reports, if you have them, your peers, your managers, your skip-level managers, you know, 6 questions or so and what they think about you and how effective you are. Now you have to get your manager's buy-in to do something like this because they're— generally what happens is if you do something without your manager knowing, The only reason why they might get frustrated is their manager or their peer will say, hey, did you know that Ben did this thing? And your manager will look like— will feel like a fool. And so that's what we're trying to avoid. But a 360, which is basically just asking people what they think about you in an organized fashion, can be really influential to your growth.

Perfect. Ben, thank you so much. This has been unbelievable. And I want to mention that everyone, you should look into Ben and everything that he does and what he has to offer at Live for Yourself. Consulting.com. And he does have a free ebook that I briefly mentioned already, but 5 Secrets to Creating a Fulfilling Career, and you can go right to his website for that. And then of course he's on LinkedIn and, uh, with a really big community of followers who love what he's doing. So be sure to look up Dr. Benjamin Ritter Leadership Development. You can actually put Ben Ritter in there and I found him. It's like very quickly. But so be sure to connect with him and see how he can support you in you becoming a rockstar leader and owning the room. Ben, thank you so much.

Thank you so much for having me. It's been fun. It has been corporate.

Yeah. Thanks. I hope you took a lot of notes because this conversation with Dr. Benjamin Ritter, or Ben, was a powerhouse of a conversation. He talked about so much when it comes to the fact that you don't need a title, a position, an office. You don't need a rung on the ladder for you to have influence with those around you. Even if you don't have anybody reporting to you, you can have influence and authority and leadership in your career and in your life. So we went down the path of really understanding what is a real leader. And I think some of his talking points around that, whether that's a toxic leader or a powerhouse leader, I think it might have surprised you. Did it? It surprised me. Yet at the same time, it was very validating around really what leadership is. And then he kind of broke that down into why he says you don't need a title to have influence, of which then all kind of culminated into you having a vision, which builds credibility, which builds that influence and helps you to own the room. So what did you take away from it? What did you, you know, make note to say, okay, he gave me a bunch of tips and to-dos that I could be taking advantage of. And, you know, therefore I'm going to take advantage of 1, 2, 3, and 4. I'd love to know. So you can always go and be sure that you're following me on LinkedIn and then leave me a comment or send me a direct message. You can even take a look for the video or the audio and leave any questions you might have for Ben and/or myself.. And we would love to understand what you walked away with. And then if you are struggling and you have questions beyond what we talked about today, then be sure to book a call with me and let's talk just 15, 20 minutes. You can go to coachmebernadette.com/discoverycall and let me help you, you know, kind of get down that path so you recognize that you could have a great deal of influence and build your credibility and go beyond that so you are a powerhouse leader by simply being the best you at work and in life as possible. All right, so I am honored that you were here with us this week, and I'll look forward to having you for another episode of Shedding the Corporate