You're Successful. Stop Apologizing with KELLY TRAVIS

Do you find yourself smoothing over tensions, fixing everyone else's problems, or staying silent just to keep the peace? Are you constantly apologizing even when you've done nothing wrong? You're not alone, and it's costing you more than you think. In this episode, we are diving deep into the hidden toll of over-apologizing and people-pleasing, especially among high-achieving professionals in leadership. Our guest, Kelly Travis, powerhouse coach, team dynamics expert, and a certified Enneagram practitioner, reveals how internalized roles like the fixer, the silent one, the good girl, unconsciously drives how we lead and how we hold ourselves back. But here's the truth. You can break those patterns without losing your edge. Kelly will show you how to recognize the outdated roles you've been playing, understand how they're draining your energy and leadership presence and shift from autopilot to deeply aligned action. So if you are ready to lead with clarity, confidence, and real self-trust, then this episode is your wake-up call.

Welcome to Shedding the Corporate Bitch, the podcast that transforms today's managers into tomorrow's powerhouse leaders. Your host, Bernadette Boas, executive coach and author, brings you into a world where the corporate grind meets personal growth and success in each and every episode. With more than 25 years in corporate trenches, Bernadette's own journey from being dismissed as a tyrant boss to becoming a sought-after leadership coach and speaker illustrates the very essence of transformation that she now inspires in others with her tips, strategies, and stories. So if you're ready to shed the bitches of fear and insecurity, ditch the imposter syndrome, and step into the role of the powerhouse leader you were born to be, this podcast is for you. Let's do this.

Kelly, welcome, welcome, welcome. How are you?

Good. It's good to be able to sit and chat with you, Bernadette Boas.

I am excited to chat with you too, especially around this subject around apologizing. But before we do, I love our listeners and viewers to get to know our guests, a little bit about them personally. So could you share a little bit about Kelly Travis?

I am a mom of 2 boys. I'm a single mom of 2 boys, and they're at the age where they're very, very energetic and are involved in lots of things. I am a competitive athlete still at this age. It's what kind of keeps me going. It's the thing that I do for myself to push myself outside of career and family. And I love to like spend my downtime reading books. I just love reading. So I guess those are some things.

Oh, that's awesome. Well, I do want to ask you about competition simply because there's skills that you learn in competing that are very, very relatable to business. And so first, what do you compete in?

I am a runner. I'm one of those crazy runners.

Okay. And when, especially when it comes to our subject today around, you know, apologizing, what have you learned about yourself, but also overall about how one needs to show up when it comes to competing to where there may be a tendency to get into the apologizing for being successful, apologizing for being a great athlete, you know, so forth and so on. What are a lesson or two that you learned from your running competition?

Uh, first I want to point out something I see among athletes, runners in particular, because that's kind of my space. But I do notice that women in particular feel like they have to have a reason they didn't achieve the thing they set out to achieve. So, well, it wasn't a good day, I wasn't feeling good, my training didn't go well, something like that, instead of just owning the outcome, recognizing they still were successful in, you know, competing and finishing all of these things. But there's this tendency to find a reason for not fulfilling the goal or the thing they set out to do. And I personally have had this issue that I've learned as I've gotten older to just shed. Right? Because it does us no good and nobody else cares. Nobody else cares.

It's so true.

And as women, we do put a lot of emphasis on, or are very concerned about, what people think about our success. And I do see this as an apology, right? Like, I'm so sorry I did not do the thing that I should have done, or I'm you know, not as good as I thought or whatever. I have had to learn to just own where I'm at and to not apologize for A, maybe not doing what I set out to do, but also B, wanting to have big goals and to be successful. Where I think we kind of get stuck, especially as we get older, is we feel like, well, it doesn't matter anymore and I'm not supposed to be doing these things or what have you. And then we get stuck in that cycle. Yes, yes.

Well, and I love what you said about, and it's so surprising how little people think of you, because that was probably one of the biggest lessons I've learned over the last 15 years, is that saying— I don't know where it comes from— around you'd be surprised how seldom others think of you. And that really hit me because I was so consumed, as I'm sure a lot of our viewers and listeners are, and you mentioned you were, in that you think other people really care and they're, and they're spending time, you know, evaluating and judging and assessing, and meanwhile they've moved on. But I think it is a good segue into our conversation around apologizing, and I found it very intriguing that you have a kind of a laser focus in this area. So what was it about individuals apologizing that really made you want to focus, you know, part of your practice, part of your expertise in that space?

Probably my own personal struggle with it, as oftentimes that does have an impact. And I have always really been drawn to helping women, women achieve goals that they're afraid they may not be able to achieve, right? And so what I started to notice in working with women, specifically just high-achieving, very driven women, was that they were constantly in conversation with people apologizing for existing, right? I, you know, communication, that one of the easiest things to talk about is I would read emails from people apologizing for just having to cancel, but they have a valid reason, right? Or apologizing for not doing the thing that somebody asked them to do because they have other expectations, right? So boundaries were a major issue, saying yes to things they shouldn't have said yes to, right? Just feeling a responsibility to be all things to everyone and to shove aside what they needed or wanted or, you know, were drawn to doing. And I saw what it was doing in professional settings within the leadership roles that they were taking on and, and really wanting to push that, right, to to challenge it, to be curious about it, to get them curious about where it was coming from and how it was impacting their work.

Right. And are you finding that obviously there's confidence, you know, in that whole thing, you know, or lack of confidence, but also does it hit on the degree of value and worthiness they have of themselves? Let alone the expectations others have of them. But, you know, do you dig deep with them to really also uncover even like childhood traumas?

We all learn who we had to be as youngsters in the environment we were raised in, for better or worse, right? We just learned how to fit into the system we were brought into. And many times women who are high achievers have some sort of background around either they were the person, the child who needed to step in and be a parent. They were kind of given the helper role, or they learned, and that's how they learned that they were worthy, or they were the child who learned that in order to get attention and validation, they needed to be successful and achieve. And then there are others who learned that, you know, in order to, to be valued, they needed to be different or they needed to be perfect, right? All of these things that play into shame and sometimes fear. And what we have to learn in the work I do with women in particular is reminding them who you had to be then is not who you have to be now. You're no longer that little girl. You are a grownup. So those behaviors, those patterns, we don't need those anymore. We don't need that. You're safe. You're in charge, right? But it does take a while to get out of that cycle. We have these default patterns of behavior and we're very quick to go to them. And we see it every day, especially in the workplace.

Do you find that it's because it's comfortable, it's familiar, it's, you know, they know how to navigate that, you know, that place, versus if all of a sudden you come in and you're, you shake them, you know, shake them, and all the, the insecurities and fears and doubts like start shedding away, that's a new space that might not be as comfortable as the old one was.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you think about it, we many times don't even recognize we're doing it because it's so ingrained. Right. And so when I say, hey, why are you doing that? Or what if you said no? And then, right. What? Well, that would be terrifying. I can't do that. Right? Well, why? Well, they'd be mad at me, or I'm supposed to be this person. Right? And so digging into that and really challenging, like, but is that true? What would happen if you didn't? Right?

Right. And then do you need to kind of push them and challenging them to, to operate a different way and just figure it out for themselves?

Yeah. So we kind of tiptoe our way in. I'm a big believer and we don't go from like one end of the spectrum to the other. Sabotage, right? But yeah, just tiptoeing our way in, testing the waters, small baby steps, right? So in that email, don't apologize, just give the reason and say thank you for understanding, right? Or, you know, maybe it's a conversation. Somebody, colleague is asking you to help them with something. Okay, you don't want to say no, but you could say yes, but not until this time or that day, right? And so kind of just moving them along that continuum.

Well, I mean, that is a very valid point, and it seems so simple. So let me give you an example. I found myself apologizing all the time as well, especially I don't like to be late. I don't, you know, when I say I'm delivering something, I'm there. Or I send it to you. And I found myself with email after email saying, oh, I'm so sorry that, you know, this is late, but here's blah, blah, blah. And so then I, you know, said to myself, wait a minute, I don't want to be apologizing. So I said to myself, okay, how can I change up my email? And I said, okay, thanks for your patience.

Yes.

Is that good?

Great. I love that. There's no I'm sorry in it.

Love that. Simplicity that you provided there. Now, I don't want to get past the concept that you brought up in regards to roles. Like you said that there's different types. So could you give us an example? You know, and are there labels to those roles that help us understand the different types of people who apologize, or reasons they apologize?

I use the Enneagram within my work, which is a personality assessment that helps individuals learn more about themselves and the behaviors that they have, but also why they do the things they do. So if we're going off of something like that, and I've learned very quickly how to kind of just pinpoint at this point, but we could go, you know, there's the perfectionist. Right? And a perfectionist is going to apologize for not being perfect, right? That critical voice is very loud in their head and can also be loud externally, right? There's the helper that I mentioned earlier, and that individual really places all their worth in being helpful. They don't have boundaries. They always say yes, right? They need to be appreciated. There's like the Achiever, Competitive Achiever, and I mentioned that personality a bit. That individual is gonna apologize for not being successful, right? They view the world of having winners and losers and they can't be a loser, right? There's the Peacemaker, and the Peacemaker feel is very afraid of conflict, avoids it at all costs, and as a result kind of self-sacrifices. So the list is long, but those are some. Yeah. Yeah.

And what's the good girl that I saw in some of your content? You, I saw the good girl and the fixer.

Yep. The fixer. Yeah. Those are not Enneagram specific. Those are just what I see. So the good girl is really that individual who has a lot of shame around some of these things we've talked about, right? Needing to be accommodating, compliant, agreeable, positive, right? All of these things in terms with the goal of, I don't want to rock the boat. I don't want to make anybody mad. I'm going to like go along to get along. If I use my voice, it's going to be like sparingly and in certain cases, right? And that can be cultural. That can be religious, you know, impact. There's so many things that impact that piece, right? As women, we can all kind of have some sort of tie to that one, especially if you grew up in a household that really kind of said, don't be bossy. Don't, you know, and then the fixer is they see themselves as the one who has to step in. Be in control, be perfect, right? Those types of things. And again, the apology is more about not having control and not doing the thing, not getting the result, right? So it's about productiveness and those types of things. Yeah.

Now, some of our listeners and viewers could be sitting here going, well, what's so bad about those, those, you know, type of roles? So what is the impact of these type of roles and the behavior, the leadership that, that, you know, they're attempting to project to one's career.

So I love that you brought this up because I think it's important to acknowledge all of these things can be incredibly positive. It's when we rely on them and they become that default in scenarios and situations that are not helping us move forward, that are keeping us stuck. Stuck. Let's just go to like the helper type role. In many ways we need helpers, right? We need all of these personalities. We have to understand that about ourselves and acknowledge that, and we need different perspectives in the room and all of this, right? And so we have to learn that not everyone is like us.

Mm-hmm.

But a helper gets in trouble. We've talked about it a little bit. Yes, you wanna be available, you wanna help, you wanna step in. There's so much value to having somebody like that on the team. And as a leader, that can be excellent as well, right? You're stepping in, you're helping out your employees, whatever the case may be. But again, there's a high probability of burnout if you're giving away all your time, you're sacrificing your time, your own emotional needs, right? You're maybe not getting your own work done because all you're doing is stepping in and helping everybody else. So it's understanding I need some boundaries. I need to have a filter system in terms of what I'm saying yes to and what I'm saying no. I need to learn to delegate.

I was going to say it sounded like micromanaging could be interpreted from employees if someone is a helper.

Yeah. Or even if somebody is more of like, I like to be in control and in power. Right. Lots of women like to be in that role. But in, in that sense, those are wonderful things. They're great leaders. They help, they give great direction, they have a vision. But delegating, trusting others, right, not letting people speak up, those things can be a factor. So there's like understanding the blind spots in our personality and where we can get ourselves into trouble.

You use things like the Enneagram. What are some other tools that you use to help an individual who may lack self-awareness? Is that kind of a key point here is they're not even aware of how they are being perceived by others and the impact that they're having?

Yeah. So I work off of a continuum because of this, right? So At the far end of the spectrum, we have like people who are just operating on autopilot. They have no idea the issues that are happening, how they're getting in their own way. They're just, they've gotten this far this way. So I'm successful. I'm just going to keep doing it. Right. We don't see the issue until we actually face it. So that's one end. But as we gradually move along and get curious, right? So if I'm, talking to somebody at that stage, it's just curiosity, right? Like, is that working? Are you happy? Are you stressed? What are you taking home with you? Like, what's your health like? Some of those types of questions. Because if we peel it back, you know, on the surface might look great, but underneath, you know, it's like a duck above water. Looks great underneath. Those little legs are— and then as we move along, we move into more of like the rigid stage, which is what I call it, where there's some awareness like, okay, wait a minute, this is not working anymore. I am stressed, but I don't know that I want to do anything. I'm— I don't even know where to start, right? And so there it's just kind of asking some questions, paying attention to what are the things I keep doing that maybe are giving me the same results, and I'm just kind of like going back to the same well type of thing, right? And then as they do that work, they start to move into more of what I call an integrative space where, okay, I see what's going on, I can recognize that these behaviors, these beliefs are definitely getting me stuck or, you know, causing me to be overwhelmed or impacting my communication or my leadership. And I'm gonna try different things, to do different things, take on different perspectives. And I, with my clients, it's really trial and error. I'm like, I will say, I want you to try this. I want you to go and do this thing. And let's see how it goes. It might work, it might not. But let's try it. See how it feels. It's probably going to be uncomfortable. And then we'll come back and do we build on it? Do we switch gears? It's very much a lot of that.

Are these individuals coming to you? Or is it someone that is recognizing someone struggling? They don't have self-awareness and they want to provide them some guidance?

It's both. I work inside companies where they will have specific employees work with me, and it's a lot of women who are in higher levels or working to get to higher levels and can say, this isn't working, I'm overwhelmed, I'm getting feedback, right? That type of thing. I need some help because I want to keep going, but I'm wrecked, or I'm feeling a little lost.

What should they be paying attention to within themselves so they can start chipping away at potential blind spots or chipping away at not being aware?

It's really checking in, asking themselves What am I thinking right now? What is— what's coming up in this exchange after this thing happened? And what am I immediately wanting to do in response, right? So let's say the boss comes and comes down on you about something, right? And you're a person who feels like you're supposed to do everything perfectly. Well, after that exchange, you're likely going to have some intrusive thoughts, have some feelings about your own ability to do your job, right? Very critical of yourself. And oftentimes people will not be able to sleep. It impacts relationship if you're feeling that way about yourself, all of that. So it's really paying attention to How am I responding to something? And then what's happening after? What do my relationships look like? Am I taking care of myself? Am I like picking up that bottle of wine on the way home and that's— we're just hanging out after the end of the day, right? What's going on? How am I processing things? And it may feel like you have to put in a little effort, but it's because you do. If you're on autopilot, You're not checked in, you are checked out. Right. And so some people prefer that because they know that there is work involved once you open that up. So if you have listeners on your podcast, I'm guessing they're not in autopilot. I'm guessing they're in the rigid stage, maybe moving a little bit, right? They, they know that they want to work on themselves. They're recognizing something within them that they want to improve, and so they might be at least noticing. And so then the question begins, what am I always doing? What behavior am I always using in this context? Maybe with my partner, I'm always shutting down, or maybe when I sit around the boardroom, I'm not speaking up, I'm staying quiet. Right? Why, why am I afraid to use my voice? Am I worried I'm gonna say the wrong thing? Right? Those types of things. So it's just what am I like thinking a lot and what am I doing a lot and are they working? Is it helpful? Could I be doing something else? I go into companies and their teams are all on autopilot. Right? Because we get comfortable and stagnant. And unless we drop in, I say, like a big-ass fish or something into the pool of water to like shake it up and wake everybody up, it will just go on like that. Right? Dysfunctional communication, a lack of like, all of these things exist. And I've seen it within a team where everybody's just kind of going along and Nobody's really recognizing any, but there are issues.

Yes.

The more aware we become of ourselves, we then learn to be aware of others and we can see things in others as we do the work on ourselves. Yes, for sure.

So it's not just individual dynamics we're talking about. It's also team dynamics that are critical when it comes to this topic of all of the roles, the, the apologizing, and just the overall potential lack of self-awareness that can create dysfunction for ourselves individually and those that are around us.

Yeah, I mean, if you think about it, if you have a leader of a team who is constantly apologizing, is afraid to kind of speak up, use their voice, share direction, that team is going to feel very insecure, lost, like, what's my role? Where are we going? Do I ask for help or is that person not really able to? Right. So there's a lot of like stuff that happens within that. If somebody is constantly in that apologetic state or place.

What would you suggest that they can start doing right now to really help them when it comes to apologizing?

I have an exercise I love to have my clients do, and I think it would be relevant in the context of this. So if someone is struggling with this, feels like they always have to apologize or struggle with boundaries or using their voice, right? It's kind of what we're talking about. More, yes. I want you, listener, To start paying attention to the thoughts you have in your head. We have like roughly 60,000 thoughts a day. A large percentage of them are the exact same thoughts we had the day before and the day before that, and like 92% of them are negative. What we can do is we chat, we ask ourselves, is this thought useful? So If you're shaming yourself about a communication or something, ask yourself, is this thought useful? No, it's not useful. It doesn't matter if it's true, but it's probably not true also. But it's— we're asking if it's useful. No, it's not. Because what happens is we have a situation that occurs, we have a thought about that situation, which then creates a feeling, which if we're talking about apologizing, probably shame, guilt, something like that. And then from that feeling, we have an action. And many times, if we're feeling this way, that action is probably not going to be beneficial, positive, productive, whatever, right? And then it's going to produce a result. What we want to do is we want to catch the thoughts before that feeling becomes overwhelming, we start spinning the drain, doing the thing that just kind of leads us down that hole, right? So is this thought useful? No. What do we do then? We try to think of a better thought, but not, as I say, some BS positive affirmation, because our brain is much smarter than us. And if we say, well, You're the best person in this world. Like, you know, just some, something like that. We're not going to believe that. We need to come up with something that is neutral, that is better than what we're thinking, and is going to keep us moving forward in a positive direction versus kind of going down that spiral. Right. So let's say you have the example, right? You're running late. You had the thought, I need to apologize because I'm running late. Because you're shaming yourself because, oh my God, you're so stupid, right? Whatever. I'm just making something up. Right. Not helpful. Right. It puts you in this really bad headspace, which by the way, impacts like the rest of the day. If you catch yourself and you say, no, everybody has stuff that comes up. I am a human being, you know, dealing with human being things. It's okay. Right? It's okay. Then your response is, thanks for understanding. I'm running a little late. I'll see you at such and such time, right? Versus, oh my God, I'm so sorry. I'm such an idiot. I'm, I'm going to make it up to you, whatever. Right? And then you're like thinking about it the rest of the day.

Right.

So we're trying to stop that because it would impact your response in an email, a phone call, whatever. And it will lead you to apologize for things you shouldn't be apologizing for.

I want you to also help us understand what is the perception others have of someone who is apologizing all the time?

Not confident. Can this person do the job? Are they capable of it? Are they overwhelmed? I feel like they're overwhelmed, right? Some of those things, because when we come off that way, we don't seem confident, we're lacking some direction, you're going to get taken advantage of. Oh, that person is going to do anything, like they feel bad about X, right? And it does leave you a little susceptible to that also. The other thing I'll point out is it, it gives us an opportunity to give others permission to stop apologizing. So if I receive an email from you that you're running late and there's no apology, it's just a general acknowledgement, a thanks for understanding, and I'm also someone who struggles with apologizing, I'm going to read that and go, oh wow, that was a great email. She didn't apologize. And then I'm going to think about doing that myself.

Right.

Right. So we're setting an example. We're giving others permission that are also struggling.

Kelly, this has been fantastic. You have to go check out what Kelly's all up to. Go to kellytravis.net, learn all about her, learn about the services she provides for individuals, for teams, even masterminding. And at the same time, you might want to check out her podcast. She has a podcast. Ready When You Are. And you can also access that at KellyTravis.net. And then of course, follow her on Instagram @withkellytravis. Reach out should you or someone on your team need to figure out where they are on that continuum that she talked about and need to really cut out the apologizing. Stop apologizing. You're successful. Kelly, thank you so much. I appreciate you being here. I have to be upfront and honest with you. In our post-discussion following the interview, Kelly and I were talking and I actually landed up apologizing for some of the flubs that I made during the interview. Now she's the only one who would ever know that I did. You would never know, cuz we're gonna edit and chop it up. However, I have to wonder when she walks away from our conversation, what was her perception of me in that I apologized? Did it lessen her view of me, my credibility, my value that I brought to our discussion? It's something that each and every one of us should be thinking about. And as Kelly mentioned, We really need to stop apologizing and recognizing that everyone makes mistakes. No one gets ahead by being a people pleaser or by being a fixer, as she described them, or being a perfectionist. And it only hurts us in the long run, as opposed to helping to elevate and advance. Ourselves personally, as well as from a career perspective. Challenge yourself to take on the exercise that she provided at the tail end of our discussion, which was a great closer as far as how you can start really paying attention to your inner self-talk that could be causing you to over-apologize. Over people-please, over-fix problems that you didn't even create, could be diminishing others' perception of you, others' credibility of you, others' overall advocacy and sponsorship of you. You don't deserve it. You deserve to stand strong and powerful in the successes that you've had. Some great tips and observations that we need to be paying attention to in order to elevate ourselves from a leadership perspective and from a human perspective. And again, you can check out Kelly and all the work that she does at kellytravis.net. Now, should you or your team have challenges beyond what we talked about today in regards to really being powerhouse leaders for the business, then don't hesitate to reach out and let's have a chat. You can go to coachmebernadette.com/discoverycall. And I'd be more than happy to give you some tips and strategies to keep you moving forward and keep you elevating your powerhouse leadership. And lastly, be sure to be following the show. You can go to ballofiredcoaching.com/podcast and follow us on any one of your streaming services and on our Shedding the Bitch TV YouTube channel. So go to ballofiredcoaching.com/podcast. Until next time, bye!

Thank you for tuning in to today's episode of Shedding the Corporate Bitch. Every journey taken together is another step towards unleashing the powerhouse leader within you. Don't miss any of our weekly episodes—subscribe to our podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you love to listen. And for those who thrive on visual content, catch us on our Shedding the Bitch YouTube channel. Want to dive deeper with Bernadette on becoming a powerhouse leader? Visit balloffire coaching.com to learn more about how she helps professionals, HR executives, and team leaders elevate overall team performance. You've been listening to Shedding the Corporate Bitch with Bernadette Boas. Until next time, keep shedding, keep growing, and