Outsourcing the Permit Process Leads to Greater Efficiency | Podcast Ep. 16 | Toolbox for the Trades

Hello, contractors, and welcome to Toolbox for the Trades. My name is Jackie Aubel, and today I am chatting with Ann Jacoby, the President at iPermit. We spoke a lot about the recent Service Titan and iPermit integration, which you can get more information about in this episode's show. Notes. Ian also demystified the permitting process for me, highlighting how outsourcing the permit process can help contractors focus on what really matters, growing their business. I hope you enjoyed this episode as much as I did. And Jacoby, you are the president at iPermit, which is an official Service Titan partner. Today we're going to talk about outsourcing the permit process to focus on what really matters, which is growing your business. Thanks so much for joining me today on Toolbox for the Trades.

Thanks for having me.

I am psyched to talk to you today, Anne, and we're going to get right into the permitting process. But before we do, I've got to ask you an icebreaker. I know you are in Southern California, like myself and you go to Disneyland quite a bit with your family.

So.

So I need to ask you what's your favorite ride at Walt Disneyland?

It's gotta be Soaring California. Me and my kids love going on that one.

I love Soaring California. It's like the most peaceful ride there is when they know. Oh, and the smells. Yeah, they don't have Soaring California anymore. Now it's like soaring around the world. They do like the world thing, but when it was Soaring California, it was so fun. I remember like the orange smell and it would just took me back. Yes. That's awesome. And are you from Southern California? I can't remember.

I am originally from Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. So I moved out here in 2001, actually.

2001. Okay. So, yeah, you're basically, you're basically a Southern California native at this point. I'm also from the east coast and I also searched for warmer weather and found it in Los Angeles. I really have no intention of leaving at this point.

No going back. I go back once or twice a year for family and. And then come right back here.

We could probably talk about your plane fare saving tips. We could probably exchange some of those. Because flying when you go to see family, which is generally, you know, around the holidays. Dude. I think my last ticket home was like almost a grand. I mean, I used points, but it was like, geez, yeah, and now I.

Gotta buy five, so.

And now you gotta buy five because you got three kids. Well, I'm really excited to chat with you and kind of learn a little Bit about your background. So. So I want to know, how did you become the President at iPermit?

I've been in Ipermit my whole life, pretty much since I was 16. My father took over a company in 2001. He owned it until I took over in 2009. At that time it was just a permit service. When he took it over, had three employees. 2009 brought it up to about 13 employees. When I took it over in 2009, we expanded. We went from just Southern California to all of Northern California to now nationwide. We have over 120 employees now and definitely service H vac contractors, plumbing contractors, roofing contractors, solar, all the subs and.

Yeah, tell us what Ipermit is. What do you guys do?

We work with contractors. We help obtain permits. In California, we help contractors perform the HRS testing which is part of the permission permit process for energy efficiency. But throughout the rest of the states, we handle all the back and forth with the cities from pulling the business license, the permits. And now recently we started offering a service where we handle all the final inspections as well. So we make sure that the permit has the final inspection scheduled and then after it's been performed, we verify that it passed the final inspection.

Nice. I imagine that's very handy in a state like California, which requires permits for. For anything and everything.

Yeah. California is one of the strictest states, if not the strictest states, as we're learning as we're going across the nation pulling permits everywhere. We've conquered California, so now it's been a lot easier to get involved in other states.

Yeah.

I imagine you go to other states that have more lax permitting rules. You're probably just like, oh, that's it. Okay, great. Now we're open in Tennessee or Kentucky or wherever.

Yeah, it's a fun journey now.

Nice.

That's awesome.

So, okay, you've been at the company essentially since you're 16. I haven't said this on the show in quite a while. I was a shampoo girl at 16, so I've made quite a career change. What was it like? Kind of. What's it like having basically one, not one job? Because I know you've done many different things at iPermit, but what's it like kind of just growing up in this business and now you're the president. What's that like, man?

Yeah, that's all. That's all I know. I could tell you anything and everything about the permit process. I've gone from doing the actual work myself, pulling the permits to Learning how to budget and run my P. Ls to. To hiring and firing and. And trucks and car. We have 40 cars out there. I mean we have a operation where I've. I've learned every facet of running a company just right here in iPermit. But it's been a. It's been. Been a fun journey.

I think that's actually one of the reasons why your story works so well with our toolbox for the trades. Because even though I permit isn't a service business, you work with service businesses and it sounds like your path in the. Your career in the business mimics very much like second generation owner which we hear about on the show all the time.

My dad did a great job taking the company from where it was to what he built it out. And he'll even say I took it to a level he didn't even realize it could go to. So we definitely have helped thousands of contractors within California and now other states to. To realize that the permit process isn't as difficult as some would think.

Well, I permit is also pretty old too. So you guys purchased the business in 2001. Your dad did. The company was around for quite a bit before then, Is that right?

Yeah, 1976. So he acquired it, rebranded, changed the name and that's. So we've been around for a while. Obviously back then it was orders via handwritten notes or fax machine to now we're on our third iteration, but the most amazing software platform, iPermit Pro. We went from faxes to now having a full CRM integration which now integrates with service tie in which is one of the biggest news that came out of our company.

Yeah, that's awesome.

Yeah. We're so happy that we're partnering with you. I want to focus a little bit on your personal career because I think there's probably a lot of learnings there there. So you watched your dad take charge of the business. He ran it for almost a decade and then you took over in 2009. How has. So can you actually make it a little bit more explicit? How has the company grown since you took over?

Yeah, in 2009. That's pretty much when I took it over. We. We expanded to northern California. So we were just Southern California. We were just pulling permits. My girlfriend at the time, now my wife, we moved up to Northern California for a year and I opened an office up there and expanded it. We moved back down and then we got involved in what a Hearst test was hers testing kind of got involved in 2008 became bigger then. So I was doing paperwork, it was new to me. And so we were filling out this paperwork and I said, let's start doing Hearst testing as well. So I moved back up to California, or, excuse me, I moved back up to Northern California where we just brought on new clients and we started doing all the Hearst testing up there for those customers, then eventually moved it to Southern California. And yeah, from, from there, it went like rapid fire. We, all the contractors saw the, the synergy between us pulling a permit and us handling the Hearst testing. So they only had to give us one order. We took care of the permit, we took care of the Hearst testing, given all the paperwork to the contract or to the homeowner, and it went really well.

That's awesome.

So I, I think you said the employee count before, but. So it was what, three employees when your dad bought it, 13 when you took over. And now where are you guys?

We're over 120.

That's incredible.

Yeah, yeah. We have a good amount of staff and everyone's so pleasant here. That's my biggest criteria and hiring someone is customer service. I mean, that's how I built that permit, I believe, to. What it is now is just we work with contractors. On top of working with contractors, we work on their homeowners. One of the big things we got, we got over a thousand five star reviews out there. So I mean, to get that kind of reviews, obviously we provide a good customer service.

Yeah.

So you're touching both the contractor and the homeowner. So it's not quite B2B. It's also this like B2C element too. So every person that you hire, you want to make sure they have that special touch.

Yeah, it's B2B on the side of the permits. So the contractor will send us a request to pull a permit. But then in California, when we have to do the inspections, we're going into people's homes. We're in there for 45 minutes to an hour and a half, and we're definitely in their space. So we have to provide a good customer service experience.

Yes, yes. Which is that we talk about here.

All the time as well.

Let me ask you this. When you took over in 2009, was that a planned takeover when you took over for your dad?

Yeah, he. He saw the. He saw what I was trying to do. He knew to get it to the next level, let me take the reins. Me and my dad are best friends, so it's, It's. He's from 2009-20, 22. He, he worked for me jokingly, but he really did. Even though he told me what to do. No, but we're best friends, so everything he gave, he knew I was going to make the best out of it, which he'll say I did.

So that's awesome.

So you really didn't have a lot of pushback from him as you were stretching and growing the business? It sounds like you had him really on as a cheering squad. Almost.

Yeah, definitely. Obviously every father and son have their, their debates and issues, but we, we definitely. He let me do what I needed to do and he saw the vision. He knew the vision that I wanted to go in was the right way, so he kind of let me do it.

So in doing some research for today's Inter, discovered that it's estimated that only about 10% in California, 10% of contractors are currently fulfilling state permit requirements. And I just typed yikes afterwards because that sounds rough. That sounds like an issue. So I was curious if you could kind of elaborate on, like, what are the consequences of skipping the permit process. We can focus on California if you want, but we could also talk about it in the more broad sense because I know you guys are going national. Yeah.

In California specific. I mean, I, I know this, this the CSLB, it's the California State License Board. They can sanction $5,000 fines they can require when you pull the permit. The city would. If the city caught you, they'll say double fines on their permit when you go in to pull it after they caught you pulling a permit. But on a national level, I mean, the things that go behind a permit aren't just a piece of paper. It's what you get for pulling a permit. You get a city inspector that comes in and makes sure the install is done properly, safely. If you don't get that signed off, paying for a permit isn't the end all. So, I mean, there's big things like if your house catches on fire and you don't have a permit from the ac, that contractor could get in a lot of trouble. If you're trying to sell your home and you say you put in a new air conditioner, you want that money recouped from yourself. If you don't have a permit, there's no proof you did it. So those are the national things. But yeah, especially in California with a permit, you get the city inspector. Then on top of that, on a H vac job, you'll get, you need to have a HERS test. That's what IPERMIT does. We Come in behind before the city inspector and we perform the 40 minute hrs test, which is basically checking for energy efficiency, then they could pass their final inspection.

Okay, got it. So as a homeowner, there are financial ramifications. If say you install a new unit, you don't have the permits done for it, you can't get reimbursed for it if you sell your house. And then on the contractor side, if you don't do this permitting process correctly, you can get $5,000 in fines, maybe even more, depending on if you get caught.

Yeah. And if something happened to the house, it's the contract. If the contractor didn't pull the permit, it's their liability. So there was an incident where the house caught on fire. Might not we. No one even knew the cause of that, the fire. But because they just had recently an air conditioner installed and it wasn't final, but they didn't pull permits, they didn't have a final inspection, they were liable for a lot of damages.

Oh my gosh. Is that, Was that you don't. We don't have to use names. Was this a customer or contractor you knew of or was this what you just heard through the grapevine kind of.

Grapevine? Yeah. We only work with contractors that pull permits.

I talk this so candidly on the show. You know, I haven't worked in a service business. I work for service titan and I've had the privilege of talking to folks who are in the day to day through this show. Right. So permitting, it's not the most exciting of topics. You know, it's not something that really go back and forth on a lot. But I have had a couple guests who have in the past alluded to when first started and oh yeah, we weren't even pulling permits like it was, it was rough. And now they've kind of straightened their act up a bit. What would you say to anyone out there who like, is listening, who's like, I'm not pulling permits? Like, what would you say to them if they were getting a little anxious with our conversation?

I mean, the biggest thing for me is I think a lot of people don't pull permits because of the difficulties. And I think if they knew I permit exists, they can reach out to us and they'll realize how, how quick and easy it is to pull a permit. I mean, we work with all the jurisdictions. We know what's needed now that we've integrated with service time. The amount of time it takes to submit a permit to us is seconds. So if they realized how easy it is to pull a permit via having ipermit take care of it. I feel a lot more contractors would pull permits just having it. They want to do it the right way. I think they get pushed back because it's so difficult that he's making it difficult. But with iPermit Pro, our software and the integration with Serviceign, like I said, it takes seconds for them to give us what we need and then we handle the rest. They, they, they. That's it.

Yeah. You know what I'm hearing from your answer? It's, you know, it's fear of the unknown. It's having to, you know, oh, this is a new thing I kind of got to figure out. I don't really want to do it. I think I'll be fine if I don't do it. But doing it the right way is always best. And furthermore, there's resources like iPermit out there that will allow you to partner with folks who do this day in and day out. Like you have a team of over 120 people now who are pulling permits and running inspections and doing all of this stuff so contractors don't have to.

Yep. Yeah. Our slogan is permits at a click of a button. So it's, that's what we try to push. Like, hey, click a few buttons and, and, and then you get a permit through our software.

So that's awesome.

All right, so actually to that, to that fact, right, like last year at the end of 2023, Serviceign actually commissioned a survey of over a thousand contractors nationwide to talk about the state of the industry. And these were contractors. These weren't always. These weren't only service titan customers. They were contractors who weren't. And one trend we noticed is that contractors who continue to grow in spite of economic challenges are outsourcing processes that can weigh their business operations down. And I think I permit is a great example of that. Do you agree?

Yeah, 100%. I mean, outsourcing, the permit process is an amazing idea. I mean, we say let us save you time, money and hassle. So we say, think about it like this. A contractor, spend time going to the city, waiting in line there, driving there. When we can do all that for you while, while that person does what they do best, they can install and make money. So wasting an hour or two in drive time and lines, they can outsource to us and, and we can charge them a small fee, but then they can turn around and have that person making them money installing an air conditioner, a water heater or Whatnot?

Yeah. That's awesome.

I'm wondering, actually, I don't know if you can't tell me this. That's okay. How many contractors do you work with at iPermit?

Close to a thousand. Between 600 to a thousand customers at any given time. We just launched our nationwide campaign, so that's been going for about six months now. We're in Florida, Arizona, Nevada, New York, New Jersey, Illinois, Texas. So we're already. Within a few months, we're already expanded in a lot of locations.

I don't see different states with a lot of different weather conditions and a lot of different legislation. Oh, boy. And a lot of different styles of being. You just literally named the Northeast, the Midwest, the south, like, all these states. Like, you know, the United States is so big, and it has people just. It's just different. It's almost like different cultures and all of those things. So having to navigate a government bureaucracy in those different areas, I can only imagine what your team is learning and discovering about different parts of the country.

We're making code books for every state. So, I mean, we have it dialed in for California. We definitely have it. We know what every city and every. Every city in California needs. And as we go across the country, we're learning what everyone needs, and we're keeping notes and. And we're dialing it in to that point.

I know that iPermit has pulled over a million permits, and in the 45 years since you've been in business, what do you wish more contractors knew about this process?

How simple it is. We handle all the back and forth. We handle getting the permit to the homeowner, our integration with Serviceite, all the files get uploaded to their account in the service titan, all the notes. So just how simple it is would definitely be a huge. I feel if more contractors knew how easy it was, I think more contractors would pull permits, and that 10% number that you talked about would be way higher. I feel more contractors would pull permits if they knew how simple it was to pull a permit.

Yeah.

Yeah, totally. Okay. So something else about your background here. So you took over I permit from your dad. You took the leadership helm in 2009. In 2022, February 22, you partnered with say, what's the name of the parent company? Say it for me.

ArcSys.

ArcSIS. There we go. I got it. I was like, I don't know how to pronounce this, but Ian helped me out. I want to know a little bit about how that's changed, how you've served iPermit's customers. How has this partnership enhanced the way that you guys do business? Tell me a bit about it.

Yeah, ArcSys is amazing. They acquired iPermit, like you said, in 2022. It's been now two years and it's been amazing. They're great father company of our. We have the same qualities. We obviously, we focus on quality for both of our customers. So ArcSys is the nation's leading engineering and inspections. They touch one in every seven homes. They operate in over 28 states. So that's kind of like we're following their footprint. Having a big brother like that, we get to reap the rewards of what, what they've accomplished. And now we, we're. We're following behind them. And the synergies between. Between our two companies have been really cool figuring them out. IPermit handles the alteration side. ArcSys handles the new construction side. So that's the difference between us, but we definitely have the same qualities that we want.

Awesome.

I mean, tell me what it was like. Did Arcsys, did they approach you about buying? Were you looking to sell? Like, what were you. Like, how did that happen? Because we talk about acquisition and selling all the time on this show.

Yeah, I have a lot of friends in the H vac industry, so I'm since 16, so I have a lot of friends. But yeah, I've heard all the stories and it basically happened. Yeah, the crazy story is they, they came to California, they were in California as a new construction company and they, they, Arcsys wanted to get into the alteration side, so they looked at doing it themselves and realized they. It'd be better to buy them than fight them. So they reached out to me and it was an easy process. I know, I hear a lot of the stories, how hard the acquisition processes are out there, and my M and A advisor said this was one of the easiest ones he's ever done. ARCS is a great company and we have a great relationship, so. And it started from that, from the acquisition. It started right off the bat. I mean, they reached out to me in November and we were closed by April. So, I mean, it was. It was crazy.

I have to share an observation I'm making about your story. And so you've been at the same company since you were 16. Basically, first person that wanted to buy your business happened to be just like the perfect partner for you. It seems like things have really fallen into place for, for you and your career. You've been very lucky in that way. That's what I'm sensing from this Interview. You could tell me if I'm wrong.

No. I'm very lucky, very blessed. I had great people at ipermit that helped me build ipermit over this spanned. But we built something really special. And the fact that someone was out there. I never knew a company like ArcSys existed. I mean, I'm here in California pulling permits and doing hers testing. I didn't think there was a nation. I never looked it up either, but never when I got knocked on. When I got the email saying, hey, let's talk, I was. I was blown away. The fact that they thought of I permit and the fact that it was a possibility was the dream coach. One of my mentors always said, you should build your company to sell it, even if you're not planning to sell it. And when we talked after I sold it, I was like, really happened. So that's pretty cool.

That's awesome. Who's your mentor?

Kevin Comerford. He owns a company, Service Champions.

Yeah, Service Champions north, right?

Yeah. Yep. Yeah, him and Leland Smith down in the Southern Service Champions. Both of them separate companies, but both big mentors of mine. And yeah, Kevin. Kevin. Actually, Kevin's company was the one that pushed Service Titan. They. They were like, we got to get this integr. So that helps spark the integration with Service Titan. So that was a big one for us.

That's awesome.

Well, we've been alluding to it for so long now. Tell me how the Service Titan and iPermit integration works.

Simple. Yeah. You go create a tag in your Service titan, and once the job's tagged, it APIs or transfers the data over to iPermit Pro and it directs you into iPermit Pro. You click a few more buttons, equipment you need, and then you hit submit. So I mean, it's just so simple, you know, the click of a button. That's what. That's what he said. A click of a button, you get a permit. So once the permit's pulled, we'll API the permit over to your service tying account. All the notes are over there. So really, we try to get every. All the Data that's in iPermit Pro over to your Service Titan account.

Awesome.

So if someone's listening to this and they're like, okay, Ian's done it. He's convinced me I need to be better with my permitting process. How do I get set up with. And they're a servicing customer. How can they start using this integration? They have to sign up for iPermit Pro.

Yeah.

Kind of get those two accounts working.

Service Titan has a beautiful marketplace where we're the only company, the only permitting company on the service diet marketplace. So you can either go there, there's a link from the marketplace that directs you straight to iPermit Pro. So that, that would be the easiest way.

All right.

Awesome. Awesome.

I did want to know if you could tell me some, you know, success stories or two about contractors who've partnered with iPermit in the past to streamline the permitting process. Like share any stories. I love that you name drop, casually name drop Kevin and Leland, but who I actually haven't. I think I've met Kevin. I virtually, I have not met Layla's yet, but yeah. Tell me some of the success stories that you've had with contractors.

Yeah, I mean I permit from the beginning we worked with mom and pop locations doing one to five installs to work with big corporations that do hundreds of jobs a week. So I mean we work with so many different styles of H Vac companies, plumbing companies, solar. I mean we work with the nationwide companies that are taking over the industry and the PE world to. So like I said, mom and pops, but to pull, to pull a million permits, we work with some of the largest ones out there for sure.

Awesome. Awesome.

I love that you have mentors and this is a bit of a question I'm going to shoot off. I'm going to shoot from the hip. So if you, no worries if you can't answer it. But given that you have some mentors, what are some of the best pieces of advice you got? Maybe from your dad, from Kevin, from Leland, from other people in the industry that you've, that you've looked up to and worked with. What are some really good insights and nuggets that you'd like to drop with our audience?

Yeah, these guys, Kevin, Leland is. Guy named Chris Evans is another big mentor of mine.

Chris Evans, like, like Captain America.

Captain America. That's, that's.

Wow.

I didn't know he was in the industry.

Yeah. And my dad, I mean, yeah, all these guys are formed who I am today. But yeah, they've, they've done it. What everyone's trying to do, build a successful company and, and profitable and well liked in the industry. Those ones that you named all. I don't think any competitors talk bad about those companies. They, they're tried and true and they're, they built it the right way. Learning from those guys, Leland, Chris, Kevin, these guys have teach. Taught me how to be a better owner, better person. So some of them tell me I'd be a better dad. I mean, these guys have really shaped who I am. And I think everyone in the industry has someone like that. If it's. If it's in the industry or outside the industry, it's just having someone to. To shoot ideas back and forth with or they're really giving their opinion or their advice. They've been through it and they know.

Awesome.

All right, well, cool. Well, and thank you so much for taking time today to chat with me. I personally think this is a game changer and the folks listening can check out our show notes for links to our Service Titan marketplace to learn a little bit more about that. So thanks so much for joining and for sharing your story with the listeners. Is there anything we should have talked about that we didn't get a chance to?

I mean, I'm a huge, huge advocate for Service Titan. I think it's the best software out there. I think that that's the put it at out post out there on LinkedIn the other day where the best permit company has joined forces with the best trade software for the trade. So, I mean, we're honored to be partnered with you guys and appreciate the time with you.

Awesome.

Thanks so much, Ian.