Bobby MoestaInnovator, Entrepreneur, Professor and Advisor

'The Layers of Language' by Bob Moesta

8 Dec 2022 · 2 min

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This content was created by Bobby Moesta. This content was uploaded by Bobby Moesta. This is a YouTube talk titled "'The Layers of Language' by Bob Moesta" (published 2022-12-08). It is a single-speaker presentation in which Bob Moesta explains how to conduct deep customer interviews by unpacking three “layers of language”: the pablum (surface requests), the fantasy/nightmare (projected wants), and the causal (true motivations — who, when, where, why). He stresses asking “why,” spending 45–90 minutes with customers to understand context and real needs (example: a 90-minute conversation about buying a coat rack). Metadata: YouTube video (thumbnail available), created_time 2022-12-08T20:34:19Z.

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Here's the thing. Customers have no idea what they want. Not a clue. Like, and when you— when they think they have a clue, they really still don't have a clue. Ooh, I want this feature. I want— oh, we need a calendar. Why do you need a calendar? And so what happens is you actually have to unpack what they say. And there's 3 layers of language. The first one is what I call the pablum layer. This is where they use all these words. You think you understand, oh, it needs to be easier. Oh, I know what that means. Great. Okay. We're going to go make it easy. I need it to be faster. Okay. Well, here's what faster is, right? But what we don't ask is why. And so when you ask why, you, you actually get to the next layer down. Which is I call the fantasy— it's actually a nightmare layer, right? This is where they start to project what they want, right? And they start to say all the things that they would like to have or all the new features. But the ultimate thing you want to get down to is the causal layer, which is why— who, when, where, why. Like, what is this going to do for you? What can't you do today? Like, they want a calendar. Why do you need another calendar? As opposed to, okay, I know how to build a calendar, I'm gonna go build a calendar. And so part of this notion of being able to actually uncover demand well is you need to get really good at this— is unpacking. It's a very important skill, right? And so 9 times out of 10, most people say they can do an interview with a customer in 15 minutes. My interviews with customers are anywhere from 45 minutes to 90 minutes. I talked to somebody for 90 minutes about buying a coat rack. And you're literally like, how is that possible? Because it's not about the coat rack, right? I gotta understand their life and how the coat rack fit in it.