EP051 - The Entrepreneurial Agent - Steve Sharpe
Podcast episode (YouTube EP051) — interview between Anthony Astbury and Steve Sharpe (recorded Nov 2020). Steve Sharpe, a London-based entrepreneur and celebrity agent, recounts his sales background, building a high-value network, memorable nightlife encounters (e.g., Raekwon, Tai Lopez), approaches to mentorship and role models, and practical advice for ambitious men: offer value, think individualistically while building reciprocal teams, play the long game, and balance creativity with structure.
SA.
So this is the whole Man Academy podcast. Excited today to be speaking to my friend Steve Sharp. Steve's a high achieving entrepreneur most known for being a celebrity agent with a lavish and extravagant lifestyle, which we're going to touch on. A man of adventure, he's one of London's most notorious socialites and has a friends list that includes major US hip hop stars, Hollywood actors, footballers, models and even royalty. Steve, how are you? And where are you, sir?
Hey, I'm very good, thank you very much, Anthony. I'm in the middle of London right now, so I'm in Southwarks. That's how I'm spending my lockdown. And you can see the view behind. So that's the London eye, just kind of like over my. You see that faint line there?
Yeah.
You can see the lighting's not doing us justice, but that's kind of roughly where I am.
And am I correct in thinking that we went to the same school?
Well, I grew up in mostly in Orpington.
Yes, we did, didn't I remember we had that conversation when we first met. Happy days at school for you.
Were they happy days? Yeah, it was happy days at school. I really liked my secondary school experience, particularly as I got older. You know when you become kind of cooler in the school and you get more respect. Early years, not so happy. You've got to find your feet in year seven and eight, haven't you? Got kind of like. You've got the older kids kind of like judging you and like seeing if you stand their tests. But yeah, in the later years. Yeah, I loved it. How about you?
Yeah, same. I think everybody has that moment where when you go to senior school especially, you know, you've gone from being the eldest and the big fish in a little pond to suddenly you're the little tiddler and there's a lot of bigger boys around who are a lot rougher and tougher. So I learned to be very good at. Being very good at sport meant that you rise in the ranks of popularity quite quickly.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. That helps a lot. Sports is a big one at school. I was a writer at sports at school, not the best. So like I could always get in like I was in a basketball team. So I was unusually tall. I was actually, I'm about 6 foot 2, 6 foot 3. When I was at school, when I was about 11 or 12 years old, I was actually this height, so 6 foot 3. When I was like 11, I was unusually high, way high. So I looked like the six formers. Even though I was like, you know, 12. And so I was in a basketball team straight away, obviously. And it was easy because, one, the nets were quite low, so I was quite close to the net when I put my hands up. And also, you can't play these other schools and have these, like, athletic little teams. But I would just hold the ball in the air, basically, and, like, what are you gonna do? So I just hold it really high and just kind of threw it, and I get the rebounds every time, you know, and I can't even jump that high.
It's one of those. One of those sports that it doesn't matter whether you're any good at it or not. If you're really tall, then you're gonna do well. Well, that does make me laugh. There's plenty of stories like that. But I've got a question for you is what the fuck is a socialite? And a notorious one? Could you explain what your thoughts are on that?
That's a good question. What the fuck is a socialite? A socialite, I would say, is a label put on someone when their career is a bit vague. My career is a bit vague. And the reason it's vague is because I'm entrepreneurial and I'm a salesman, really. So I started in sales, right? And then I realized I'm really good at selling. It's just a natural skill. It's actually more natural than anything it was harnessed. And I had some good mentors and stuff in, like, when I was in corporate companies, But I'd always sell a lot and unusually high. Even when I was, like, 18, 17, I used to work in Peckham on a bed store selling bedding. And I'd be, like, topping the whole company across all the different market stores this guy owned, which was, like, 50 staff or something. And I was, like, a kid, and they couldn't get their head around it, and neither could I, really. I was just good at it. There's a flair, you know, Just. I was getting people from bus stops and stuff and bringing them over to the stall. Come over, ladies. You want some bedding? I'd enjoy it. I'd just, like, embrace it and enjoy it. So it's like I always had to sell things. And then I had this idea when I was in my early 20s of, like, well, okay, so if I can sell things for companies, what about if I save up some money and get out there and in these other networks and these other places where there's, like, there's more money at play and you can go and like maybe like football, for example. Really simple one. Everyone knows there's loads of money in football or boxing. You've got guys like Eddie Hearn. He makes like 80 million on one fight or on this kind of thing. Why not take that skill and put it there? Yeah, I was like, I'm going to go and build the best network ever. And I built up enough money so I could have a couple of years where, you know, where I was kind of like on a bit of a tight budget, but financially, roughly free. You know, I got some sales commissions. I could pay my rent and all that for a couple of years in my, like, early 20s. And I was like, right, let's start with celebrities, because celebrities might have money. And then I went out hustling with celebrities, working out what I could do for them, you know, bullshitting my way into meetings and stuff with, like, rappers and things. Somehow or another through, like, Facebook messages and Twitter and whatever, whoever would take it. And I was really aggressive with it. And over the years, I've realized there's loads of ways to make money with loads of people. And actually sometimes connecting networks is the best way to do it. So you might have a billionaire over here who's got, like. But they're lonely and then you and. Or they really want to be, like, hanging around with cool people and you've got a footballer over here. We'd love to get to know a billionaire because they might be able to do some business together and take it. To take their wealth to that level. You know, property development and all the stuff they put their money into. And if you're the guy in the middle and you've got a bit of commercial now, you can do things with those kind of things. So I've just been out hustling any event where I think I can meet someone cool. I went to it. And over time, this kind of magnetizing effect has happened as you know more people, because people need to know you to know that person. And that's, I would say, where that label comes from.
It's a great answer. I think there's the old saying of, you know, your net worth is your network. And, you know, I'm a great believer in the many years of cultivating relationships and that's come through the whole Man Academy. You know, you contacted me, I think, through Instagram. And now since. Since starting the whole man Academy, there's a whole range of different guys from different companies and sectors that have got in touch that are, I think, looking for a bit of. And I hate the Word networking necessarily because it sounds like David Brent, some wanky thing where you hold business cards out, but it is that of, you know, building up a selection of people around you who have got some really good contacts and also you enjoy spending your time with is important.
Oh mate. 100% I agree with the network is your net worth thing. 100%. As long as you're resourceful and you know you can do something with it. You've got to have that level of influence. You know, I've seen people in businesses and they know everyone and then they get and they're like mates with everyone and they seem to be the center of attention and then they get sacked and they wonder why and it's because they didn't really have any influence, they just mates with everyone. Whereas like I realized over time what is one thing collecting friends is another thing collecting trust I suppose and credibility and it's been able to be that person that they're going to send the message to when the opportunity comes around. There is something to be said, I've learned over time as well as just being a consistent, trustworthy person with friends with money. That's actually a really good life strategy I think. Just go and find some friends who got really good money and be really consistent, trustworthy and tell them let's do some business together, see what happens. See if some magic can happen from that. And it can, it does happen. And if like you know, because rich people need to spend their money on something and they'd rather do it with someone they trust. I always think of like, imagine if you live next to a guy who was like a real estate agent and you wanted to buy a house and he was really nice to you for like two years when you were living there. When you move house are you going to go to. Yeah, you know, you're going to get. I'm not going to go down the estate agent unless you've fallen out with him. And like it's the same principle. You just got to play the long game and make friends with people. Managed to hustle my way from quite a working class family. Although my upbringing was fairly like middle class really my family's quite working class, if you know what I mean. Like they, they built their way into it. So my uncle and my dad and my mum and they're all cockneys. My mom's from Elephant Cast, my dad's from Hackney and my family actually is full of entrepreneurs. They all, like loads of them gone, made really good building companies and like and all that kind of thing. And it's like a lot of it's just been through mates and connections and like some of them, my Uncle Gary, he made an enormous amount of money. He's a proper cockney guy and he's a bit of a tough guy and he made a lot of money from just like his mates at school when they become like electricians and plumbers and all that sort of thing. And he just got them all together and he said, right, I'll front this and go and win some business and I'll rent you all out to him. And then he was making like 20 grand a month. Guys loaded. So that's just mates, you know, connections, trust over time, you can't, you know, you can't buy that. That's what people want want, you know, that's.
It kind of sums up. We're launching our whole Man Academy Mastermind event, which will start in January. And it's about bringing people together who want to live a life of adventure, you know, and not just. I felt when I worked in the City and I was spending 200 hours a month sitting at my desk doing the same thing, and it doesn't matter how much money you're being paid, you know, sometimes you can get to a stage, you're like, I feel like I'm sleepwalking my way through life.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And what I see with you is someone who I'd sum up as is living a bit of life with adventure.
Ah, thank you. Appreciate that. I agree. I mean, the sleepwalking. I use the expression sleepwalking. I had the same thing. I felt like I was when I was in working in the City as well. I did feel like that sleepwalking thing too. I felt like I was basically fulfilling somebody else's dream. That was kind of in my overall assessment. But when you're in it, when you're in these, these. These businesses, these hierarchies, it's hard to see the big picture. Think it's a human, like a human nature trick. You get into hierarchies and you fight over the resources within. And suddenly when you're a kid and, like, the world's your. All the potential of the world, maybe your dream is to become an astronaut or whatever the kids love, you know, or sometimes it's like when you maybe get a bit older, you might want to become like Alan Sugar, or you might want to become like Richard Branson, you might want to become like. Like Lewis Hamilton or something like this, but then you get into a business and suddenly people's dreams change suddenly they're like, oh, I want to become an account director and then I want to become a senior account director. And I think, do you?
Yeah.
Or does that just make you feel more important in this business, which is ultimately going to end in you still working for someone even if you're for 40 years? And just a point on that. Something I realized when I remember the first time I started questioning this, I was like 21, I was in America on a business trip when I was on this really good graduate scheme for a big technology company. And on stage was all of these people who ran the company. It's one of the biggest companies in the world, right? All the people that ran the company and they kept telling me that I'm young and I'm like their high potential, whatever, graduate, and I'm going to go and run the company one day. That's the kind of dream they were selling me. I was, ah, sounds good. But everyone on stage had been there for 40 years and the company was only about 40 years old. So I was like, all these people literally went to school with this guy who runs the business. They went to college with him. All these mates from like the first year they set up the business. These are old friends of his. They trust over time, why are they going to give the business to me, not going to give the keys to me to this business? He's going to hold on to the keys and give. Keep amongst his mates for a long time and start questioning these things. I was saying it to people and they're looking at me like I'm mad because these businesses turn into cults sometimes and like, if you say anything against a cult leader, then you're. And you're the idiot, you know? Yeah, it's like, you know what I mean? But I was right. I was questioning things and I was right. And then I became a bit despondent about the whole thing, a bit of a crisis and ended up working out quite well because I just persisted through the thought process, you know, and I started reading external materials and like how these things really work and some of the, like, not everyone's your friend, but sometimes when you're young in a business, kind of like you think everyone's trying to help you, you're going to run this business one day and they're trying to inspire you. But in reality, like, the truth is that's not true. People can hold on to the power and keys in life and you've got to go and make things happen yourself and it's up to you. Do you want to go and take that leap of faith and go and. Or do you want to stay on the stable road and then it's up to you. You know, it's up to you.
That's, that's one of the big things about, I think for. I know enough guys in this city and this was me many years ago. Say who you, you were in a fairly comfortable job, but it just wasn't fulfilling. And it's not necessary that you had to leave your job, but you wanted some kind of side adventure or something else, you know, some side hustle to be working on. And I know enough guys that have felt like that that, you know, it's, it's, it's a big ask to necessarily leave your job, but you're like, Christ, give me, give me something that lights my fire and gets me going.
You see that all the time. You know, actually, when I was starting up my business and things start to go quite well five or six years ago, I used to go to a Starbucks quite a lot and sit there with my laptop. And I got, I went there so much because it became my office, right? Because Starbucks is the best one, I think, because you've got, you can plug in, you can always plug in somewhere. You can always get WI fi. So I keep going there, got to know them so well. They give me free teas and refills and stuff, right? So like it was saving me money as well. So I used to go there and got to know all the stuff. Like they all knew me actually. They invited me to the Christmas party. That's how much I went there for like a whole year. I was like, I was like a part of the furniture because I go there five, six days a week and my gym was around the corner. So I just like embed that into my lifestyle. And that was my, my little hub where I was my dungeon for a year, you know. And so I got to know the staff and most of them were like these young people, you know, like baristas are quite often like in their early 20s or like late teens, teens. And every single one of them, the full time ones and the part time ones had something else on the side that they were doing. So one girl was like, she's a barista full time. But oh yeah, I also do like makeup for like theater. Well, that's interesting. She has a horror makeup and all that kind of stuff, you know, like elaborate makeup. Another guy was like, oh yeah, I'm a trampolinist for like Team gb. Or something. Another girl there was, oh yeah, I do like hairdressing privately on the side and I believe it's exactly what you're talking about there. You know, when people have jobs that if I'm, if I'm honest about it, they're not the most stimulating jobs. Yeah, right. Robotic but repetitive. And anyone who works them probably agree with that. The workout that they need to find some way of fulfilling that. Finding something fulfilling outside, it's like a natural reflection. And when I started as a celebrity agent, I was still doing some sales stuff in to keep me stable. And the truth is, I think the real reason I went for the celebrity agent stuff was probably driven by me trying to feel more significant and have some meaning in my life and do something that felt like I was stepping towards some vision that I wish I'd achieved and something fulfilling rather than just going to work all the time, which I wasn't finding meaningful. I was just finding. I was like, right now, I mean, I remember being 21, my manager came up to me and she was like, you need to think about your pension. I was like, fucking hell. What? I'm 21. How long? It's gonna be a long time till I'm paid that money. And by that time I'm hoping, I'm hoping I'm gonna have enough money to support myself. Yeah, right.
Pension shouldn't matter.
You shouldn't matter. Right? And like they're gonna Change the rules 50 times by then anyway. And it's like, am I really gonna sit here and start planning out my pension at 21? Really? I mean, maybe that's just, maybe that's. Other people disagree with that thinking. Right? But, but for me, I was like, fuck me, if I'm putting my eggs in that basket and that's my long term plan, then like, what's the fucking point? The fucking point for the pension at the end, which is going to be like probably nothing anyway, you know, like fuck, hardly anything anyway.
Yeah. With the interest rates and things you're going to get these days, you're better off investing it in something. Just take it all out and put it in Bitcoin, to be honest.
Yeah, yeah.
Just spread it around between all the Altcoins and Ethereum and Bitcoin. But just confirm this isn't financial advice, we're not financial advisors. But we will take money and charge for it if you want us to.
Let's talk about.
I'll tell you why this is funny, because your Instagram paints a great picture. I love people's instagram because it's like a window to their soul. And I think, I'll say this, I think if someone saw your Instagram, they would think you were mildly superficial, whereas I know that you're a very nice, genuine, down to earth guy. But I love your Instagram because it is, it's, it's. It just makes me smile. But the, the thing you shared with me about going out with Tai Lopez and. Was it one of the guys in the Wu Tang Clan or something? Or something ridiculous like that?
Yeah. Yeah, that was a cool night.
Tell me about, tell me about one or two of your most memorable nights you've had in these places. Because I hit a few of these places before and sometimes it can get a bit crazy. So just give us one or two of your gems.
I think this one that particular night because I didn't actually know any of those guys before that night. So it was a Tuesday night and I'm sitting there, I was actually in a little hotel coffee area or having a drink or something. My business partner was wandering around the area, back from the gym, and I text him saying, mate, come, come here, let's sit down, have a drink and talk. So he came through to that. It's near Waterloo. And I got a text about 8pm from a mate of mine, Demetrius, who's this really cool photographer. He's from the Bronx. He knows all the hip hop guys in the U.S. mate, Raekwon's in town. He wants to go out tonight. Fucking what? Raekwon? Which one's that again? Oh, yeah, fucking. Oh, that guy. Oh, Jesus Christ. From the Wu Tang Clan, that big rapper. He's up a hip hop fucking icon followers on Instagram. Like, anyone in hip hop, like, serious guys in hip hop will know him, you know? And I was like, well, definitely want to hang out with him. I wasn't dressed for anything. So, right, let's get the Uber home both to put a suit on just in case this happens. And then I'm under pressure, right, because I'm kind of like known as the plug, you know, the guy's gonna make things happen. So I'm calling up my friends in the nightlife industry and I'm saying, right, we've got this cool hip hop guy. What can we do? Thankfully, I got a really responsive answer from a friend of mine, Joel, who does. Who's kind of as one of the kingpins of London nightlife, really. And he said, he said, right, we've got. I'm going to try a few places for you, mate. And I'LL come back to you soon. And he got Lux in Mayfair, which is this, like, really nice, kind of smaller club. And I'm texting back and forth with Demetrius. Is this gonna happen? Like, we've got Lux. They're gonna give us some free champagne and stuff, and they're gonna give us a VIP table in this really cool area. Yeah, perfect, man. Brilliant. Game on. Meet at Nobu in Shoreditch. So I'm getting dressed as quickly as possible. No time for a shower, you know, like, sort of shaving, like, as I'm running around the house, this kind of thing, like, cleaning my teeth. Like, I put my pants on. And we jump in the Uber to Nobu. Shoreditch. Get there, and his manager and his DJ are sitting there like, oh, yeah, no, Raekwon's asleep, mate. No, no, he'll come up when he's ready. Not sure if he wants to go out. No one's asked him. It's like, fucking out. I've used the Versace perfume for nothing. Yeah. And I'm sitting there in this area, and he's, like, waiting, waiting. Like, anyone gonna wake him up? Like, what we're gonna do here? Sat here for an hour and a half talking. Talking to ourselves. Anyway, he comes downstairs eventually. He's like, oh, yeah, let's go out. It'd be good. I'll put a hat on. And he goes upstairs, he puts his stuff on. He looked really cool. And then I was worried because I was like, well, what if it's on a Tuesday night and this club is fucking empty? And we walk in. Have you ever been in an empty club? It's pretty fucking embarrassing.
Yeah, it's depressing.
Depressing. I can't remember what Tuesday night's like, and I've never been to this bar before. So we go down there. Thank God it's full of students and people. There's a party atmosphere. We walk in, I say, raekwon's coming. He came in another taxi. I text him saying, it's all good, Bring him along. Like, they didn't want to take him to a place unless it was buzzing. So it's all good. Bring him along. Came along. Anyway, as I'm in there, I got a text from Tai Lopez, who I only vaguely know. I know him really well now, but at the time, only Vega knew. Hey, mate, I'm in Sexy Fish. Which is that next door?
Yeah.
Are you in London? I was like, mate, I'm next door. Come through. So then, like, another 10 minutes later, in walks Tai Lopez with Some model and I've got. And I text the model saying, come along, because that just makes everything look good in front of the. These kind of guys. Yeah, models turn up and everyone's dancing together and I think, how the did this happen? Like, this is out of nowhere. Oh, fucking no. We're all high five and Ty, meet Raycorn. Raycorn, meet Ty. They're all high fiving. Oh, like, I like your music and all this kind of stuff and like those kind of experience, experiences, I suppose only can happen if you build like a whirlwind of momentum around you. And occasionally these things happen. And my weekends are totally different to what I'm expecting. And, you know, these are the kind of things we're doing in London quite a lot. And where I find it helpful is I like your, I like your observation of Instagram because I think that's quite good feedback I get quite a lot from people, like when they, when they meet me, is that, oh, you're quite a nice guy. I thought you'd be a bit of a dickhead. Right. And my business partner gets the same thing. But the truth is, Instagram can be used, like, emotionally as, like, oh, keeping up with the Joneses. Or you can go on the attack and use it as a PR front, you know. And the truth is, like, our Instagram reflects a lifestyle which is somewhat reflective of the connections. It builds this perspective, Nora. And of course, the footballers want in, the models want in, the hip hop guys want in. Because it builds that brand. You know, it's just we perceive it, we see it as personal branding, you know, quite literally. And it's kind of more business minded when we're doing it than we are personally minded, if you see what I mean.
Yeah, I like it.
Magnet. Meant to be magnet.
Yeah. And I think that's now, as I said, you know, Instagram is often a window to someone's their soul, but it's about the message that you're trying to put across, which I think is always interesting because some people's Instagrams are absolutely shit. So I always like yours. So what's the craziest night out you've had?
Craziest night out I had. I'll tell you something recent that happened just after the last lockdown. I met up with a friend of mine. She's a billionairess and I don't drink very much, but it was lunchtime and I wanted to do something like quite good with her. It was in. What was it? Somewhere like in Knightsbridge, in this little outdoor Champagne place. Coffee and. Coffee and champagne place. And I was like, all right, I'll have one champagne. Because I get drunk on, like, two. I'm really lightweight. Really fucking lightweight. So I drank like, one, and then I was like, okay, fine. And I'm starting to feel dizzy on the second one. And then she's like, let's get another one, let's get another one. And she's enjoying it because I think she hadn't socialized in quite a while. Nor did I, I suppose. Anyway, like, two hours in, I probably had like five of these things. And I'm actually drunk, and I'm pretending I'm not, you know, I'm quite. I'm not like some loutish drunk. I'm quite quiet. And it's only about 2:30pm and then she's like, she's got to go, right? She's got to go and get her kids or something. I was like, okay, brilliant. And we'll do this business thing and whatever we were talking about afterwards. I stand up, I realize I'm actually hammered. My, like, absolutely fucking hammered, right? And it's completely unacceptable to be hammered. And I wander off, right? I'm just wandering. You know, you ever get drunk and you sort of wander, just like, okay, fresh air and wandering. I went into prep. I got a coffee that made me feel a bit disgusting because it's, like, all mixing. And I felt like, oh, that didn't help. Or some water. Bought some chips in, like, McDonald's or something. And then I'm, you know, just trying to help myself. And then. Anyway, I wander off around to the back of the Saatchi Gallery, and there's a. It's basically dead there at the moment because nothing is not open. And there's all benches out the back. And there was a guy sat there on one of the benches with his laptop out, probably tethering his phone to it, just like sitting outside doing his thing. And I said to him, I remember I was drunk, but I remember saying to him, mate, I'm just going to sleep here on this bench next to you. Do you mind? And he was like, no, no problem. And I just fell asleep on the bench. I woke up about two hours later. I was like, fucking hell, what am I doing with. But it was like. It was like. It's one of those things where I was like, I don't like drinking that much. I don't really drink. I'm trying to stay in shape, you know, and do exercise more. And that always fucks that up. But, but, but it was one of those moments where it's like, I'm going to take the hit here because socially it's the right move, you know, it's going to build the relationship. Anyway. I ended up fucking bench around the corner. So I was at the highest high, you know, champagne with billionaire and then like the lowest low, you know, on the pen bench. The dramatic drop.
Those, those nights can do that to you. Many years ago I was in Zuma and I remember Gwyneth Paltrow was in there on the table kind of opposite me or Diagli. Bernie Ecclestone was in there. I think David Blaine had a table with a load of models and I can't remember if 4 of take that were on the chef's table. But there might have been a different night, but it was just one of those where you're just surrounded by those people. Then, yeah, later on you think you're living the high life. And then later on I missed my train. Then I got the next train and got off at the wrong station, which was. Missed my stop, the last train. And I had to run about three or four miles home in my pointy Patrick Cox shoes. And you know, you just get in and you're like, you've gone from sublime to the ridiculous. So we've all.
Cusp of high end, but not quite.
That's it. You wake up and open your wallet. The next morning you've got a bill in there and you're like, what the fuck? I'm trying to think where it was. It was in like 500 quid on one bottle of something and you're like, put that through expenses. So let's talk business. You know, you're an entrepreneur and a businessman, I think, at heart. What are the lessons you've learned from those around you? More, maybe more the mentoring side of it as you've been growing up and running business.
Hmm. I've had some. You know, I think every entrepreneur is on a hero's journey, right? It's like, you know, archetypal thing like you see in the movies. You know, you've got the hero out there trying to take some adventure, but they have a lot of self doubt and they need. All you need in those moments is like an old wise man to come along. You need your rafiki or your, or your, what's his name, Dumbledore, to come along and give you that direction. And the truth is, I found good mentors along the way in business, but it was never quite right because they would be able to mentor me on the Sense of like, okay, this guy can really teach me how to build like my make money in technology or this guy can really help me to like run a small business. But it's not a small business that if I was really honest, it's not the small business dream I had that their business, they work very hard and very long hours. And the idea for me is to be entrepreneurial is just take a step back from business and have businesses working for you. Right. In glamorous industries as well. I like the glamorous industries I find exciting. That's what excites me. And so I actually had to extend myself out and acquire books and watch a lot of YouTube videos from people I found inspirational. And mostly men I would say, Mostly men I would take the advice from. And that's probably because, I don't know, just saw something I needed someone that I felt like, do I see? Would I want to be that person? And I can only really envision that with a masculine figure, I think, do I want to go, if I get there and I'm that guy, am I happy? And I really started assessing what role models do I really want? What's the right role model for me? Because when you get into businesses, like when I worked in Microsoft, they assigned me some mentors, but the truth is that was whichever blokes needed to do a bit of mentorship to get their markup at the end of the year for their manager. It wasn't like, who's the right mentor for this guy? And they put this kind of half assed effort into that. But in reality it's like no one ever asked me what do I want? They were just assigning me someone, prescribing it to me, this is your future. And actually I want to sort out the kind of role models I want. And I started, I said, who the great men in the world? That's a good starting question. Who the great men, who the men have got it right, you know, like got so many dimensions of life right. And I looked around and I would see, well, I looked at like Barack Obama. There's a good example. There's a guy who's like, he's a great communicator, whatever you think of him politically, I mean, that's kind of irrelevant. It's more as a man, what's he achieved? You know, he's achieved the highest heights in terms of his career and, or even looking back in the past, I'd look at like Julius Caesar, what a man. You know, the guy was like running like half the world.
Yeah.
And then the next question came from a business partner because we were going on these journeys together, and he'd say to me things like, look, we're both like senior directors and whatever in companies. But he's like, but would Julius Caesar be happy with that? And it's like, oh, no, definitely not. Suddenly it looks really shit. You know, like, it felt good five minutes ago, but now you've said that question, suddenly the whole, would Barack Obama swap his life for anything like yours? Definitely not. And also getting to know guys in high positions. Like, I started to get to know footballers and hip hop stars and stuff, and guys who've got really cool lives and they've got a lot of. They've got an abundance of options of what they can do, and they've got a lot of respect and a lot of money, and some of them got very lovely families and stuff as well. Increasingly, it normalized and I realized these are just guys. She's blokes. Nothing more to it. There's an aura, there's a mystique around them. It's, oh, that's that person. But they're high up the hierarchy socially, whatever, but they're actually just blokes. And, like, the more you get to know them, the more you realize that the more you start to see them as peers or someone that you could actually go and become like. So I think there's that these things seem ethereal from afar, but when you get in there, you realize it's not as ethereal as it seems. If there's any footballers listening to this, for example, they know what I mean. Probably the idea of becoming Cristiano Ronaldo might be on your vision list, but it doesn't feel that ethereal because you kind of know the path he took. He was an 18 year old kid, he got snapped up by Man United. He had a really good coach who told him, stop playing tricks with the ball and start getting results. And he did. And he started scoring 50 goals a season. And then he became Ronaldo. And it was that simple.
I was just thinking, as you said, that having, you know, Sir Alex, arguably the greatest football manager coach in the world, as you say, it doesn't necessarily. Everybody's going to be amazing, but sometimes you need steering in the right direction and some nurturing to bring out the best in you.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, I'm a Man United fan, right? So I remember when Ronaldo joined and he had these noodles in his hair. Remember that? Those little blonde bits in his hair. And he Was like this kind of like looked totally different than he hadn't had all the surgery done. And it. He was this skinny kid with loads of bags of talent. And he came on against Bolton, I think, in his debut, and he did like 50 step overs and ran around like three players and then did fuck all. It just went off the pitch every time. Another step over, bang off the pitch. And like, it looked like it was like, is this kid going to be one of these, like flair players who achieves nothing or is he and then run out? But I think Ferguson was his old wise man, right? That was the guy giving the empathy and the direction this mindset. And he just transformed him. He just absolutely transformed him into like. He was like, right, you're going to be a results driven player now. You see, that's what he was going for. You're going to drive results here. And then they booted out Van Nisteloy and there was a gap there for the Man United's goal scorer and it was Ronaldo and he came and he stepped up to the mark and then he became like unplayable and then it just went on from there and he becomes such a master of it. But he needed the old wise man figure. And I believe that, like, if he didn't have his Rafiki or his Dumbledore in Alex Ferguson, then he wouldn't have had that empathy and wouldn't have had that. He wouldn't have been disciplined in the right way and he probably would have just been wasted talent or much more average. And so that mentorship is pivotal, actually. It's one of the most crucial things. And if you don't have it in a natural figure around like YouTube and things like this, if you find the right people, it can work. And it's the same principle and, like, go and figure it out. Who's giving you the truth? Who's giving you the real information? Who's trying to sell you bullshit as well? There's a lot of business gurus out there selling bullshit. Who's selling the real stuff?
Yeah, I was just thinking, YouTube is a good example. You can, I've often said to people, maybe just pick one or two people and follow everything that they do. You know, instead of scattergun, I'm reading 12,000 books on personal development and business and this and that is, you know, find someone that's doing exactly what you want to do or has done it and absorb everything. And they might be dead, as in, they don't have to be alive anymore. They could be someone that's left books and legacies and videos and everything else. There's a guy called Sid Banks who was an old Scottish welder who kind of developed the insight of the three principles. And your mind can, you know, your thoughts control your feelings? And I've consumed loads of his stuff and it's changed my life. But to state the obvious, he's not alive anymore. But I always say to people, find one or two people that are where you want to be or have done what you want to do and go and absorb everything.
Yeah, Agreed, Agreed, agreed. I really like it. And I think, like. I think, like, you know, you can. You won't land on the right person straight away. It'll take time. And then you might, you know, you also reach out to people if, like, if you've got the balls to do it, reach out to people. It's quite. I think it's quite a natural thing for, like, older guys to want to help younger people, and sometimes they can fit you into their life and you can help them, go to them. Like. Like, my whole philosophy is, if someone's trying to contribute value to my life, then, like, happy days. Like, I'm pretty open. I don't mind. I get a lot of messages on Instagram, but, like, many of them are trying to just take things.
Yeah.
Oh, can you, like, introduce me to this football hour? Can you introduce me to this royal family? Well, if I asked you, you wouldn't, you know. Whereas I've got, for example, a student, Megan, who's my assistant, she's at Southampton University. So competent, and she's come to me with a mindset. I actually met her in that Starbucks I mentioned earlier. She was a barista there and she used to ask me about my business a lot. And she was like, so good for her age. You know, I'd be like, you're super confident young woman. She's like 16 at the time. And I was doing a fashion show with a big Brazilian designer coming over at London Fashion Week a couple of years ago, and we had, like, celebrities in it and stuff. And I said to Megan, like, I want you to run this thing. And I, like, really, like, encouraged her. And so she's like 18 years old. No one knows it, but in the background, she was running the whole of London London Fashion Week show. And, like, she really stepped up to the mark. And, like, she was as good as anyone. She was competent, disciplined. She put people in order. I've never seen anything like it. I was like, how's this so good? And for her it's the best work experience ever. And suddenly she becomes a cool town at university and, like, she is. She's like head of the cheerleading team and she's like, when you know she's been immediately gone to the cause, everyone's looking at her Instagram and their Facebook and whatever, going, bloody hell. Because most of them, like, you know, you're a student, what have you done? Duke of Edinburgh, you know, like, compared to, like, she's done a London Fashion Week show.
Do you know what she's. I'll tell you what she's become and I'll say that I don't know if you know who Daniel Priestley is. So he's written Key person of influence, 24 assets, etc, etc the Entrepreneurial Revolution. And I interviewed him on the podcast, probably just as this lockdown scenario happened. But, you know, his book Key Purse of Influence is about, you know, once you start putting your head above everybody else by trying something different and maybe getting out your comfort zone, suddenly people seek you out. And it's the same with the whole man academy. You know, you get messages from people and companies asking to do stuff or can you speak? Because they know that you're hopefully someone that's an authority figure on the subjects that you're talking about.
Interesting. Yeah, absolutely. And the relationship I have now with Megan is in about three years we've been working together. She's deep into university midway through it now, and we still talk virtually every day. And she'll message me, steve, what can I help with? Anything? Sometimes it's paid. Sometimes it's more like she benefits from the work experience and the building, the relationship with me. And of course, when she leaves university, I say to her, you just tell me which work experience you want to do and I'll do everything I can to set it up. And of course, the contacts I have are like, way beyond what you're going to have when you leave uni 99% of the time. So if she wants to go and work at a football club for a little while, she wants to go and work in politics. If she wants to go and work with, like, Royal Family, I can do all of these things with her. We really can. And it's like, how brilliant for her. And that all she's got to do in return for that is, like, take a good attitude. And she has. Whereas, like, there are other students who are more like, how can I get in the door? And they've got the wrong mindset. So if you're young and you're listening to this, actually, and I'm sure you've got some young men listeners, I would say, look for where you can bring value. And like, no one's expecting you to turn up with, like, you know, here's a free Lamborghini for you. I've nabbed. Like, if you turn up with a good attitude and you say, how can I support you? And you turn up with a good attitude and say, like, to an open person, some people closed, and they won't even respond to that. To find an open person and say, how can I provide value to you? Be surprised what people would want and like, as long as you do a competent job of it and work to your strengths as well. Don't, like, offer like, something academic. When you've got a practical mind, you're not an academic person because you're going to fail. So do something that you can actually help with. You know, if you're a practical person, you haven't got the academic skill. Go to someone and say, look, next time you've got an event or something, can I come along and help you set up backstage? Brilliant. That's helpful. That's actually always, like, come along, be practical. And then the next time you're going to build all the contacts that nobody else has and get there with a good attitude, smile and be supportive. And that's all you need. Simple as that. People want people they can trust, rely on, be consistent. And I find a lot of people have a bit of a victim mindset and quite often those people are the ones first to moan. And I see their Instagram stories saying, like, you know, the world's against me. And, like, it's so hard. And people have such unfair advantages above me and they're the people that have let me down, you know, that they haven't turned up to something they promised to turn up to. And they've made me look bad or potentially could look bad. Or they said, yeah, I'm going to come to this fashion shoot, which is paid for. And they just haven't shown up or shown up two hours late. And then, oh, woe is me, the victim. And I think, come on, you know, like, why would anyone. Why would anyone want to pay you to do something? Why would they want to go to their kids, that money in their inheritance, but they can go on some nice meal with their family or go in your pocket, and if you're not going to turn up, are they going to risk it?
That's. You said something, I was thinking as we were discussing it. I remember with one of the podcast hosts I was listening to and I think he'd interviewed, I think it's one of the biggest podcasts that Tai Lopez had been on. But I remember Brian saying, please don't contact me and say, I'd love to pick your brain and buy you a coffee. Bring me just an idea, which is cost you nothing but. Or a connection. An idea or connection. Or, you know, can I do something for you? Instead of saying, hi, you know, you're in a position of power. Can I come and, you know, kind of drain your brain? When he's like, you know what?
Just.
Just come and do something different. Instead of being the millionth person that said, I'd love to just catch, you know, catch you for a coffee.
Thousand percent. Thousand percent. Agree. Yeah. It's not enough. Not enough value. But you can offer value as young as a young person, right? Or maybe not a young person, somebody who's trying to do something different. You can. You can always find a way. Just got to think creatively and, like, try and get in the other person's head, like, assess their life. What's this person trying to do, for example? Me. Right? So someone's trying to get in, provide value to me somehow. They might. Look, they go, well, this guy's obviously doing some pr, right? He's obviously got pr, is the forefront of his business. Okay, that's interesting. What if. What if I said to him, oh, a couple of my friends are like aspiring models. Is that useful for your pr? They'd love to come along, do a photo shoot with you. Okay, cool. That could be interesting. Or what about. They say, okay, so when you do. When you do photo shoots and do PR and this kind of stuff, do you need anyone backstage helping with the camera? Do you need a second someone to film behind the scenes? Yeah, come along. Sure, man. Cool. Come along.
It also starts a relationship and some trust, doesn't it?
100%. And it's like, it makes you think, oh, this person's trying to add help. They're trying to help and on the journey. And people aren't people. Often there's this kind of, like, theory from the outset that, like, oh, anyone who's got anything has just been given it on a plate. Right? Yeah. But it's like, okay, so let's take a Premier League footballer, okay. They get paid an extortionate amount of money and it might seem unreasonable if you look, compare it to, like, something that, you know, like nursing. Whatever. The footballers would be the first ones to agree with. That is an enormous Amount of money at the end of the day, that's the way the market works. Right? So. And like, they didn't see the hours and hours and hours when they were like, 11 and, like, giving up time all the time to kick a football. And they're really, they're training every morning and the competent professional ones go right to the top and, like, that's the way it is. So it's like. And they have often worked quite hard for it. Quite often when the other person was sitting at home on their PlayStation.
Yeah. Partying.
Partying, yeah. They're out running or they're out kicking a ball. There are sacrifices that have to be made at a very young age and those that have that discipline and that mindset go quite far. And so there's no point in judging. There's no point in judging from afar. The best thing to do is to accept it, accept the realities of the world and navigate your way between it. You know, like, life's a game, it's a game of strategy, like Monopoly. Like in Monopoly, some people clock that if you buy all the properties, you win. Right. And some people don't. And. And sometimes you play against those people who don't clock that. And what they do is they just, like, they're random and they say, no, they land on Mayfair, they've got loads of money, go, no, no, no, I'm going to save my money. You're going to lose, man.
And an hour later, they're handing over a thousand pounds because they land in your hotel.
Exactly. Yeah, exactly. And you think, oh, man, that's a poor move. But the game of Monopoly is like, buy as many properties as you can. And once you figure that strategy out in Life, it's like, nine times out of 10, you're going to win Monopoly against someone who doesn't know that. And it's the same as life. Figure out the game, accept the rules and play it as best you can. And, like, the first thing to do. I think a lot of people don't understand the rules of the game. They're just moaning about the rules. It's like, oh, this is unfair, that's unfair. And it's like, okay, life is unfair. There's unfair advantages some people have. And quite often the people complaining have unfair advantages. Quite often they do have unfair advantages. Like if you work, if you live in the UK or you grew up in, say, the US or the UK or France or any of the Western countries, like, I'm sure half the people in Somalia would trade their place with you. In terms of unfair advantages. So, like, think of it bigger, you know, or someone from the Victorian era, they would trade their position with you every day of the week. So talk about unfair advantages. Anyone born in these countries virtually has an unfair advantage over the rest of the world. So what are you going to do? You're going to complain or you're going to get on with it and taking that mindset and attacking life a bit more combatively and being a bit more like, right, okay, how are we going to do this? And having a fighting spirit, being a bit like. And having that approach to life gets.
You quite far that, you know, that, that complaining. I know, I've met people in my life that they, they end up draining your energy because you're like, listen, you keep fucking complaining. I'm fine to tell me what's up going on, I'm your friend. But if you keep on complaining all the time, it's going to drain your energy. I know there's a great saying which is, you know, 80% of people don't care about your problems and 20% are glad you've got them.
That's probably true. I like that. Yeah, it's true, man. It's repellent. It's actually, every time I pick up the phone, something, you get negative energy. I'm not gonna pick up the phone anymore. I wouldn't. Yeah, never mind. I had it with a guy I knew in the fashion industry, like, quite talented. He wanted to do a lot of work with me. With me I quite like. He was such a moaner. On my fucking nerves. After a while, I can't be bothered. Every time I go to this guy, I feel like I'm like, I need to listen to all his problems, be fucking bothered and I'll go. Then you find someone else who does the same thing. But they do it with a positive mindset and they're like aspiring. Think fucking, what a relief, you know? Yeah, it goes a long way and like, life's tough enough about someone ladening you with all their problems all the time. You need, like, you need. You need positive energy around you say, no, man, like, pick yourself up, get yourself off the sofa, let's go. You need that.
Yeah, I totally agree. There's a time and a place, isn't there? I always. It's pretty light for all of us, you know, you don't mind your mates, if, if they were. If there's something up that they feel there's an issue they need to get off their chest, then like, great. But you know, if it, if it's just a constant moaning, as far as I'm concerned, you have to delete these people out your life because they will just, you know, I was calling a mood hoover.
That's a good one. I know a few mood hoovers. There's a. There's a book called Man's Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl. It's a bit of a classic. It's like a short book. And he's a psychoanalyst. He kind of followed on from Freud's work and he was in Auschwitz. He was actually one of the people in excess. It's an unusual situation where you've got a guy who's a trained psychoanalyst of a very high standard, but he's a Jew and he's been taken into Auschwitz. And I find I'm of Jewish heritage. So I'm quite. I take a bit of an interest in these things and kind of the first half of the book is basically a very matter of fact explanation of what went on. It's not emotional, it's very much like. And then I had one tiny piece of bread a day. We'd have to live off that. And then we'd be working until 7 in the morning in the ice cold, people would have frostbite. This we were down to like, you know, 50, like some people like 50 pounds of weight, heavy, like really, really light, you know, all this kind of stuff. And when you read it, it's so horrific, it's so horrendous, what these guys went through. Millions of people. If you read that and you're still moaning, it's like, come on man, it's like you've got freedom. People have lived a lot tougher lives than this. It could be a lot worse. 99.9% of the time, sure people go through tragedies and problems, but most moaning, it's like, come on man, have a sense of perspective. Usually you've got shelter over your head. Usually you're in a job market which is maybe not as good as it usually is, but still there is ways to find work. Usually somehow you know, this kind of mindset, you've got to take like a lot of positions than most people.
I think that you said a word there, which is freedom. And I think that people are going to have a new, what's the word? A new appreciation for freedom after being told you're not allowed to go out, you're not allowed to do this, not allowed to do that. It's those things everybody took for granted. So I Do think that, you know, coming out of this there will be a new appreciation for what were the simple things in life.
You know, actually thinking entrepreneurially. Something I've noticed is that access to people is much higher right now. Everyone's sitting on their ass doing nothing. And like there's a lot of people out there, like sports stars, some of them are out training, some of them are not. Right. Some of them are actually just sitting at home or models not doing anything or everyone, virtually everyone, just doing nothing or wandering around parks. So when you send them a message, sure, like digital interactions have gone up, right. But actually access people's minds are a bit freer right now. And so like thinking about an opportunity, now is the time to reach out to people that you wouldn't normally reach out to. Because rather than running around the city or running around doing their thing for 8, 9, 10, 12 hours a day, they're at home, virtually always at home. And most of the day is going to be at home. So it's like now's the time. They will respond to your messages on a much higher proportion now, I believe than ever. I'm actually finding the freedom to get back to messages more because I'm not in eight meetings a day or whatever.
Yeah.
Way better. You know, I'm way more responsive at the moment and like it's the same for many people. And I'm finding it too with my bigger contacts. You know, some of these guys are big global superstars and they're messing me back within five minutes. Think fucking that's the first time that's happened. Usually it takes a week, but they do, they do.
That reminds me then that I need to reach out to. I've got a long list of podcast guests, but perhaps it's a good time to reach out to the more high profile ones because they're just sitting with their thumb up their ass at the moment.
So who's the dream guest, do you think?
There's a few. Honestly, someone like Tai Lopez has been on my list ever since. I just think is brilliant. And for me, because I'm a Liverpool supporter, I'd love to have a couple of the Liverpool, you know, not necessarily the, but Jurgen Klopp would be a great one and Sir Alex Ferguson, you know, those people are Sir Alex's iconic, not just interesting, but done something incredible with their life. So, you know, I'm big into sport, big into football and personal development. So those, those, those guys that have lived their passion, whatever that is, are the people that I want to, I Want to speak to, basically, and could give us all some golden nuggets.
Very interesting. I find. I find it interesting listening to guys like Anthony Scaramucci. Do you know, that is.
I worked for.
Like, he's kind of flipped sides since. And now I think he was back in Biden. But he's like an entrepreneur. He's made an enormous fortune. He got right to the top of politics, then got booted out after 11 days. And he's this really eccentric, bold character. But I was thinking, these guys, like, fucking this guy. Some guy from like the middle of nowhere. I think he grew up in quite humble beginnings and like that. How are you bloody, like, communications director of the white. How hard is that to achieve? And why him? And, like, I like thinking these questions, why him? Or Alex Ferguson is a good example. He's reached such a. He was so much better than all the other managers in the Premier League that he basically was unfair. He was actually unfair. Yeah. Every other season or like, virtually every other season he was there. Man United one. I think they came first, second, or once. Or maybe once he came third and it was like. And then. And then even if they came third, they'd have won a trophy, you know, it was like a shit season for Man United under Ferguson was like, oh, we won the FA cup and the League cup and we came second. It was so dominant at a time and all the clubs were still pumping money out. Chelsea were trying to compete at times and. And they did, obviously, well. And then, like, Arsenal had their super squad and still Man United were competing with them. And like, he's just like, what is he doing different? You know, and he's just. What? Just.
It's a great. You know, his. His book and, you know, watching different interviews, I wonder what his thoughts are. And I want to ask you your thoughts on these games, playing to empty stadiums, because for me, it's taken. It's just the gloss is totally. That the passion has totally gone out of it.
Yeah. Yeah. I wouldn't watch it as a spectator sport. Wouldn't be so encouraged to. There's a psychology there, isn't there? Because when the stadiums fall, there's like a social proof for the event and it makes you think, well, this is worth watching. There's all these psychological dynamics at play which are out the window. It feels like watching a training match.
Yes.
That's never that fun. So, yeah, it takes the spirit out of the game quite a lot. It's not ideal. I would prefer if they just had, like, maybe socially distanced seating and masks or whatever they have to do, you know, like, just.
Just to get some people in.
Get some people in. Yeah, yeah, It's a bit shit. It must be quite annoying as a player to score an important goal, then run to the corner and jump, jump up, and then there's like, no one.
There because they still aren't they running? Put the arms out and then you go, there's no one there.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. You hear like a wee. It's like you get the same level of celebrations you get when they bring out a birthday cake in a restaurant. You know.
It'S such a shame. And, you know, my. I've said this on many podcasts, but I think for a lot of guys, the lack of sport, the sport was giving guys the way to let off steam and congregate their mates, have a beer, talk bollocks, which is important. And that's all been taken away from you if you're. Especially if you were going to games. So the sooner they can get that back, the better. Now, last question for you is, if you had to give men one bit of advice on how to do life better, what would it be?
Probably controversial, but I'd say think more individualistically and you'll help more people. Right? So that's been a big one for me. So I think, like, you can. Everyone's trying to get you to do everything for them subconsciously, and you should view people with an eye of suspicion around that, I think. And, like, I think, like, who. Who in the world thinks the most individualistically? Well, let's take like, Jeff Bezos, right? He must have thought pretty individualistically because he was like, right, I'm going to make myself rich here. And he saw opportunities along the way and he did his thing and he built up this mad empire and biggest company in the whole world ever. But actually, you know, in the end, he's employed, what, hundreds of thousands of people. Now, obviously, when people get so powerful, there's lots of suspicion around it and sometimes there's some dark arts at play. Accept that. So, like, take that away from it. The point is, the guy I thought was an individual, and in the end, he ends up bringing people on the journey with him, right? And when you. And, like, we all get our packages in record time now, and, like, that's useful. And like, hundreds of thousands of people been employed by this guy and. And they will continue to be, and that makes a living. Or like Ronaldo, you know, if he wasn't selfish, he was like, oh, he's such A selfish player. Yeah, but he's Ronaldo now. You know, like, let's say he was selfish along the way or like actors and stuff. If they gave away all their opportunities and gave away all their resources and money all the time, they would never get to the top. Then they wouldn't be able to have, you know, their mansions with people employed in them and their teams and their businesses and all of the things going on that have give people lifestyle and lives and excitement. So if you think as an individual, that doesn't make you like someone who's thinking in a nasty way. Right. It's not a negative thing to think individualistically. It can be a really positive thing. I'm going to get to the top no matter what anyone says. And the people who are loyal to me and the people that help me and support me, I'm going to take them on the journey and they will be rewarded as much as I possibly can. That's a really healthy mindset and it's something I found a lot of benefit from. Have a business partner as well. And we've teamed up, right. We cooperate together and we have an enormous trust between us. So just to follow on from that, it's not about doing everything on your own. You know, you building that team, that bond. And now together we kind of think as one individual, how we. We share a bank account, we share everything, but we have an enormous level of trust with our brothers. And it's like, how are we going to take ourselves to the top? And when we have great people that want to contribute and, and like, want to. Want to be part of our journey and want to help us and also that we can reciprocally help then every day of the week. But you'll find as you rise up above people and you do impressive things and important things, you build businesses. And even if you get moderate success, you'll get some funny comments and you'll get some suspicion from people and you'll get. People say things that you don't necessarily want to hear. And you have to realize that not everyone's on your side. World can be a bit of a brutal place. And if you ever have suspicions that someone's not on your side, it's probably because they're not actually. Maybe they want you to collapse and fail. Right? And that's like, I'm not, I'm not saying this from a position. I want that to be the way the world is. I wish the way the world was more utopian and fairer and like, people would be supportive to One another all the way up. And that's why things like the whole Man Academy is so important, because there's a sincere effort to be supportive to a community, bring people together, cross industry, build those bonds between men and women and whoever wants to be participate in it. And, and that's such a healthy endeavor, that cooperation and that needs to be led by somebody. And now I'm sure. And you have as well, you know, when people want to, you know, I approached you, didn't I, a long time ago. I said, this is. I really believe in. And I like the look of this, mate, let's talk. And so like now we're here and I'm sure in future I'm gonna find ways to support you, you're gonna find ways to support me and we'll build up to. That's the right mindset. But ultimately you have to do this yourself. And I'm sure people, at the beginning when you said, hold my academy, some people weren't supportive, right? Some people probably were like, oh, ye, mate, you probably felt it in them. And now look, you got like David Gandhi's your ambassador, you've got all these stars, like part of it. You've got this awesome brand and it's going places and it takes time, doesn't it?
I think you know that as well. You know, I always think with call it footballers that have got to the top or these different people, it's not overnight things, it's the background work. And same for me, you know, I spend many, many hours doing interviews and talks and stuff that I don't put on Instagram. And, you know, you've spoken to some really big companies and I don't necessarily publish it all, but it takes time, effort, elbow grease and, you know, sometimes long hours. But the important thing is, you know, you're making an impact, a positive impact on other people's lives.
Yeah, I heard that quote from an ex president, I can't remember which one, but he said, stay the long course. It was just before he died. It was his last message to be said, stay the long course. I quite like that stuck with me. I basically play the long game, you know, like you say, be consistent over time and I've heard that from lots of people in successful positions. Be consistent over time and make sure you're going upwards as well. Like make sure the steps you're making and not too many sideways steps. You obviously need to do some lateral stuff, but you want to be climbing, you know, like, where's my next big move? Where's my Next step, upwards. Make sure it is upwards and that you're measuring that and you're thinking like, is this right? You know, am I doing something tangential or am I doing something here? Contributory, because it's so easy to. Particularly if you're creative. I'm quite creative. I need my business partner to tell me, mate, that shit, what the fuck are you doing? And he keeps me on track, you know, because he's like my. The order to my chaos. And I've got. I've got the potential to do all sorts of exciting things, but if I'm left on my own without that strategy and that structure and that guidance, I'll go off on different tangents. Yeah. And if you are chaotic, find someone orderly. And if you are orderly, find someone a bit chaotic. That's a good bit of advice as well. Yin and yang always works.
Mix it up a bit.
Yeah, you need the creative. You need to go. But then they get carried away, they go a bit boundless, you know, Watch them cook. You know, like you sitting in the kitchen, it's a fucking mess, right? It's all nice, it tastes nice, but it's a fucking mess. Whereas. And then my business partner would say, oh, that's an interesting recipe. He won't have created it before, but then he'll start measuring shit and do it himself and it'll be way neater and there'll be no mess. It'd be hyper efficient. And I'm like, oh, that's interesting, like. And then suddenly we've got this, like, rinse and repeat system going on and it's like. So there's totally different psychologies out there and you need that balance, you know, Like I said, find someone structured and some more structured time to find someone creative.
I think today has been one of those podcasts where there's so many different bits that a guy can take some, you know, advice from, some golden nuggets from. So I appreciate all your time, Steve, and next time that I can get to London and we can hook up for a coffee or a. Something, then I'm sure we'll. We'll manage it.
I'd love to, mate. Anytime, mate. And, yeah, great, great. I love what you're doing at whole Mad Academy, of course. Awesome.
Appreciate it. All right, Steve, I'll speak to you soon.
Cheers, mate, thank you.
