EP084 - SPEAKING, SELLING, AND SHARKS - GARY LAFFERTY | WHOLE MAN ACADEMY

Whole Man Academy. Because the world needs strong men. Whole Man Academy is changing the game for men around the world. It's for guys who want to live an epic life of fun and adventure. No matter what we believe, deep down, all men want to go on their own hero's journey to becoming resilient, confident, fearless and fulfilled. Listening to be inspired by guys who don't settle for living a life of mediocrity. This is your call to action and call to adventure.

Are you ready?

Okay. So this is the Whole Man Academy podcast, episode 84. My guest today is Gary Lafferty, international speaker, best selling author, mindset and sales mentor, among other things. What he doesn't know about personal development, I'm probably going to soak up all as much as I can of it. We're going to talk about living an epic life. Pressure and expectation, importance of consistency, self selling, high ticket offers and diving with sharks as you do. So, mate, how are you and where are you?

Oh, mate, I am good. I am good. I am currently in sunny Tampa in Florida where I've been living now since 2018.

Well, so I wonder with that because I mean, what I didn't realize when, I mean, for people that don't know how I got to kind of know about you was actually through, I was going to say a mutual friend, but if I'm not mistaken, she's your wife. So that's still friends. But I know some people that aren't friends with their wives and with Heather, I met her probably five, six years ago, kind of as I was starting my own, let's call it Awakening or personal development Journey through the Tony Robbins Event. So how did you first meet Heather? And for me it was all about she had such great energy, you know, she was, she was one of those great people to be around. So how did you first meet Heather?

So again, it was all down to personal development. So I'm a great one for. Even though we've been involved like yourself being involved in coaching for many years, you've still got to do your own personal development, you've still got to work on yourself and you still got to achieve stuff for yourself and setting yourself goals. So one of the goals that I had for myself was I really wanted to write a book. Ever since I got into coaching, maybe 15 years ago, I wanted to write a book for entrepreneurs. The title then was something like Bill and Ben the Businessman or something silly like that. But like everything else, it was one of those lists that never gets done, you know, let's write a Book and stuff like that. So I made the conscious decision I'm going to fly to America and I'm going to go to this conference on getting stuff done. Right, Getting stuff done and actually getting your book done. Yeah, that's old. So I turned up at this conference in San Diego and there was. The quick story is I flew into San Diego, booked into the hotel, went to the local bar, sat at the bar, and it was like this American avalanche of TV screens and sports and everything. Like, nothing like our English London pubs, right? It was just like bombardment of complete screens and things. And there's this girl sitting there, right, filling out a journal and stuff like that, which I thought was really odd in a sports bar. Anyway, got chatting to her and then she goes, I've got to leave, my date's turning up. So she was actually on a date. So off she went. She went off on her date. But then the very next morning, I'm in this conference, I'm in the coffee line and I see her, and I just walked up to her, tapped on the shoulder, when. How did your date go? Well, you know, probably not that well if you're here so early in the morning. Right. But just, yeah, just. Just basically being an idiot, really. And yeah, her energy, like you said, it was just her energy. So I said, right, we're sitting together. She goes, no, I'm vip. I went, as happened.

So am I. Yeah, I'm gonna put.

Myself next to you. And that was it. Literally. We've been together ever since. It was. I love that day onwards. We just met and America's just been one of those countries. Of all the countries I've been to and worked. Yeah, never won that, ever thought I'd be in. And it's funny how life turns out.

It is a big change, isn't it? To start the obvious from, you know, being in London or in the States, the weather as much as the culture and everything else. And I wondered, because I didn't realize when she first met or kind of introduced us, I didn't realize you were actually from the uk. I just assumed you were from the US because, I mean, I didn't know any different. So at what point. Because the UK doesn't have a very big personal development kind of grounding, you know. And it's funny, when I first started the whole man academy, I spoke to a few guys who I knew through the Tony Robbins events, and I said, look, you name me the top three or four personal development kind of bases for men in the uk and they.

Were like.

No, I can't think of anything. And I said, you know, the desire for it is there. You know, men in the UK want to live an epic life, want to do life better, want to for their families and you know, live a life of fulfillment. But what I saw was all the guys in the UK were going to the US and going to your Tony Robbins and going to Brenda Bouchard. And you know, you can list them all, which are all fantastic, but often you feel, but I felt they were very American and I.

That's exactly what it's like.

Right, good, I'm glad you, glad you agree. And I'll tell you why I laugh, because the first Tony Robbins event I went to was in the UK at UPW at the Excel center. And, and I've told this story before, but we turned up, you know, rolled up at 8 o' clock in the morning. I was with my partner and there's all these people who for me seemed like they dropped out of acid because they were just like trying to high five everyone. And I was like, fucking hell, like it's eight in the morning, like, please leave me alone. So what was that like for you? Going from the kind of the man from the UK to then trying to get into that, the energy of the guys from America that are slightly different.

Well, my story very. Is the story that Heather would tell, my wife would tell all the time is that she took me to, I think it was a Brenda Burchard, I think it was a month of me landing in America and she said, we're going to Brenda Burchard, it's a three day event. And I went, okay, let's just go. But don't expect me to do the happy clappy shit, right? That was my phrase. Don't expect me to do that happy clappy shit.

Yeah.

Anyway, she goes, no, you've got to get involved with it and stuff like that. Well, the first day, as you quite rightly say, people are trying to hug you and it's positively encouraged to walk up, up to strangers and hug them and that kind of stuff. And I said, no, I'm British, I don't do anything like that. You know, very reserved and usually from being the person on front of the stage rather than behind the stage, it was a real culture shock in two ways for me.

Right.

But anyway, apparently by day three, I'm dancing in the aisle and I'm high five in people. And it just took, I would suppose, networking to a new level. It brought my own, I suppose I had internal fears we all have internal fears. And that stiff uplift of the British not doing stuff like that actually is probably the main reason why we don't do personal development that well in the uk. It's because we see it as very Americanized. We see it as a complete relaxation of control. And if we lose control, we lose everything. And that attitude, unfortunately, as you say, on one hand, there's loads of men in the UK who really want. And loads of people and men, especially men who would relish the personal development stuff. But because we're not, we just see it as a very American, we tend to avoid it. So being in America has really helped me see the other side of it. I mean, don't get me wrong, there are some people that come up and say hi and hug you and stuff like that. You just went, you just dropped back at all. You know, I lost one lady. I was, what do you do? And, you know, she said, I'm a dolphin trainer or a dolphin whisperer. All right, Something like that. And she's from the desert in Arizona. And I was thinking a dolphin whisperer. You do. There are some really good stuff, but it's also a mix of a load.

Of.

I will call them wannabes. You know, they're just hanging around the crowd. They don't really know why they're there. They're probably there for the energy and if that's what feeds them, fantastic.

Yeah, it's so interesting. I mean, you know, the more I learn about personal development, the more I realize how little I know and how much for all the different experts there are which will kind of come on to that. But I just wanted to go back for yourself because again, you know, you prior to being out in the States, you know, grew up in London, so give people kind of a little bit of a background of you as you kind of growing up. And then I know you're in kind of real estate brokerage and you scout a business and then sold it, which I think is. Is really interesting because for me, sometimes it's like, what happened after that? Because I guess you spend years building up for that. I'm guessing here. And then it's like, okay, well, it depends on what age you are. What do I do next? Can you give us a kind of moon walk back a few years and give us a bit of a background?

Yes. So I've been in estate agency for a long time and I, I'm one of those people that if I'm going to do something, I want it to the very best of my ability. Now, it might not be the best in the world, but it's the best of my ability. And it's almost like I want to. And without going too much into personal development at this stage, when you realize that you're actually. When you start pushing, there's actually. There is a reason why you strive. There's a reason why people strive for stuff. And now looking back at it, I can see it was for approval. I always wanted approval from other people, especially my mother and stuff like that. So I kept pushing at stuff I wanted to do. And I was in a real estate company and I actually became one partner. There was three main partners who were equity partners and one, what they called an associate partner who was given and promoted to a partner in that firm. And he did it in five years. I was thinking, wow, if this guy can do it in five years, then I've got to beat that. And I'll be the second guy that he'd give it. And it wasn't even on the cards. It's not as if that's in your job interview. If you work hard, you can have partnership. It just wasn't those things. But the fact that someone else had had it means I wanted to do it anyway. I made partner in three years and I worked hard at it. Though I was working seven days a week. It almost, in fact, it did cost me my previous relationship with the mother and my children, because all the days I was working. But from there I owned my own estate agency. I went from there. I decided, well, hold on a second. It was exactly what you just said. I got to the partnership and I got equity partner. And within six months of all that hard work, I was thinking, this is it.

Really? Yeah.

I've worked all these hours, I've done all of this, and I've got the trappings of it. Like you say, when you worked in the city, you have the trappings of it, but you kind of. You're still in a cocoon.

Yeah.

You're just. You're just in this wake up, do go home, wake up, do go home mentality. Right. And then if you're depending on what type of week it is or whatever, then you blow the whole week away because you just need to escape. And you're not growing, you're just doing. You're just dealing. And so I had to took some time out. I sold that partnership. I said, well, I'm going to start a business and I'll do it my own way. And I set up and I think it was the e Myth that I was reading at the time and what absolutely stunned me was the fact that the phrase where it said never build a business to work in it, otherwise you just got yourself another job. Build a business to sell, right?

Yep.

Make it an asset. So I said, right, so the plan is five years. We're going to sell the business, we're going to sell the business, we're going to build up, we're going to do everything we can in a five year plan and sell the business. Me and the partner and had a partner. Well, in three years we decided to get a valuation just to see, just to see what it was worth where we were at halfway mark. Right. And the valuation came in at roughly what we thought it was and we got two more years. Well, real estate and estate agency, especially in south London is extremely, extremely tight knit. And all of a sudden I start getting, even though there's an NDA signed, I started getting phone calls and emails from my competitors saying, here, I'm here, you're selling, here you're selling, I hear you're selling. No, no, no. Just evaluation anyway. But before I knew it, I got an offer of three times the value. And when you think about it, it was literally just to pay me to get off the high street. That's exactly what they were doing. Yes, they wanted all my clients. Yes, they wanted that. But it's effectively, let's pay a competitor out so there's one less competitor on the high street and then that was it. And that's how I end up selling my estate agency, the real estate brokerage from there and then went full time into training and speaking.

So what was it like going, did you, did, you know, you're going into the training and speaking and had you done some of that? I mean, beforehand? Because I'm always interested for, you know, guys who the whole man academy that either talk to on the podcast or I kind of connect with those that have made a big transition like that. You know, for some of them it's been years in the making and others are like, it's that fuck it moment where you're like, I'm off, I'm done. You know, money in the bank or not. So how was it for you?

I distinctly remember one day, the days I used to smoke and not really look after myself, you know, and that's what it has when you're working all these hours, it's just a quick, I used to smoke a cigarette for like within two seconds it used to be gone and then back in because it's busy.

Yeah.

And I remember sitting outside talking someone and I used to drive to work, and every day I remember the old cassette tapes, the personal development cassette tapes just blew it in. And it was a tape, wasn't even CD then. It was a cassette tape. And I was listening to this guy called Jay Abraham, Right. And he. Everything he said just made sense to me how you look from another business. You take what's good at another business and you bring it into your current business. And he used the phrase me too, which means completely different things today. But in those days it was every business has a me too ism. So if you're a solicitor, I'm a solicitor. Me too. That's how we market ourselves. That's how we sell. Oh, I'm a personal trainer. Me too. That's how we market ourselves. And no one was looking outside the industry, so they were looking outside the industry. And then that's how I managed to grow the business pretty quickly and by seeing what was working for other people. You know, I even look at tire shops and say, what's the tire shop that's doing that? We're not doing in real estate or estate agency? Can I use something like that? And then Jay Abraham came over to England. He came over to England and the promoter. I happened to know who the promoter was. And the promoter. Yeah, we're paying him. I think it was like $25,000 for 40 minutes.

Yeah, back then that was a lot of money.

Yeah, that was in the 90s. It was like, what? You know, I don't even. I remember earning that all year.

Yes.

Yeah, 25,000, you know, 25 grand. So I was, oh, this is. I've got to go and see him. Anyway, as it all turned out, I remember going, wow, if he can make 25 grand sharing his and helping people, it wasn't just getting paid. See, he wasn't just one of those speakers who you get paid to speak, if that makes sense. I climb my Everest, therefore I'm speaking and teaching my Everest. It was real good stuff. That really helped people expand as people and his businesses. And I was listening to him and I thought, that's what I want to do. That is exactly what I want to do. I want to get paid to teach people and help people grow, just like I've managed to grow. And Jay Abraham has been in my ear for two years as a cassette tape. And now I want to do that. So that began my transition. And so my transition was, okay, I'm going to go out and I'm Going to go out and help people and so through who you know. And a friend of mine was starting up a coaching company to train people how to become coaches, as a lot of people were doing way back in the 90s and the late 90s and early naughties. And she paid me to come in and do 45 minutes worth of training on marketing and selling yourself as a coach. And that was the beginning of my thing. And from there it just grew into an international thing.

That's what I'd love to hear when it is that, as you say, you know, you kind of start small and because some people, I think, see, you know, the special, let's say personal development gurus or people up on stage, and you realize that you start small and it might just be that one person, you know, but you've got to kind of put yourself out there and put yourself in that situation.

Yes, absolutely. I think if people very rarely see, you know, that, that image of the, of the iceberg, everyone sees success as the top and they don't see the bottom of it. And all of the stuff, you know, and I like to refer to that bottom part of the thing as the Titanic part, because that's the thing that sunk the Titanic, all right? That's where all the problems are. That's where all the dangers are. When you're at the top, you can see for, but when you're underneath, you can't. So you don't know what you're going to get hit by. You don't know what's going to happen. And that's where the struggle comes from. But if you don't do that struggle, and this is the things about what I see, people who succeed and do really, really well in life is those who went through the struggles because now they know how to duck and dive, they know what the problems are, they know how not to repeat those things so they can get to the top. Whereas those who have just become what I call instantly famous for sake of another term, that they fall very quickly because they don't have that proper foundation of not just learning and doing, but having to take the falls as well.

And I guess also it's that, I mean, it's funny, reminded me of two weeks ago on the podcast we had Mark Knight, who's kind of an international DJ, and I knew him when he was DJing to, as you said, like five people on the dance floor. And then, you know, years later, he's DJing to 50,000. And it is that starting off thing. And I wonder for Yourself, how was it nerve, nerves wise when you started speaking to even to smaller groups, being at once that kind of the. What's the word? The crowds got a little bit bigger.

Yeah. It was always nerve wracking, I've got to tell you that. It was always nerve wracking whether it was eight people in the room.

Yeah.

And today to be fair, even though when I go online and do an online event, I just literally just did an online event in Singapore, it's a three day event. So time wise is a complete 12 hour difference. So yeah, their daytime is the middle of my night. But it doesn't matter how many people, whether it's where it was eight people or up to. I think that once I said it was five and a half thousand people in a room, the nerves were always there. The nerves always there. But a friend of mine, Andy Harrington, I don't know if you know Andy Harrington. Andy Harrington, he gave a quote and he turned around and says, look, if you were on the starting gun as a sprinter, if you were Hussein Bolt, do you think they are full of nerves and shaking when they're actually on the blocks or have they now calm and ready? Because if you're shaking on the blocks, it's the wrong time to shake, right? Yeah. When you're on the blocks you should be ready to go. So by all means you've got to re channel that energy. But nerves wise, Yes. I used to pace. People used to come up to me go my, am I right? And I used to get away from me and I know what Tony does. Tony got to go there. He gets himself interstate right beforehand. And I tried doing that and I just felt so silly really trying to get myself into. Into state. I'm already in a state.

Right.

Just the wrong state.

So I used to be one of these really internally focused and my heart used to be trying to jump out of my chest because I think I really wanted the message to land. I think that was the key. I wanted, when I really assessed that I wanted the message to land, I wanted people to have a good time. I didn't really care what they thought about me. I'm a great. I'm of the opinion that, you know, a good percentage of the room won't like you no matter what. All right. I'm a great believer of a third of the room won't like you because they don't like your hair, they don't like your accent, they don't like your shirt. They just don't like themselves. Whatever it is. They just don't like you. So you can't please everybody. And that was the key thing. You can't please everybody when you speaking. But for those who do, I still want them to have a good message. It's not about me, I'm just the messenger, alright? So I want them to have a great takeaway and to feel something different and to feel that they can change and they can feel that they can get out that rut that they're in. Because life puts us in a rut, unfortunately, and it's up to us to get out of that rut. No one's going to come and take you out of that rut. You have to get out of that rut yourself. And so messages to land. So nerves were not because of me. I think the nerves was because what happens if they don't get it? What happens if I can't get that message across? Am I wasting my time? Have they wasted their time? You know, what happens if I leave them where they are and they get stuck and they never get out? So it was a different type of nerves that I had, but nerve nonetheless.

That's so interesting because, you know, you are kind of, you're trying to teach many people at the same time. And I guess I try and look at it now. Let's say we've got an online course or if I do talks, you know, I'm delivering the same content every time and you might get one person that is going to not be ready to listen or not going to get it and another person like that. And you know, I got an email the other day from a guy who's like, I've implemented all the stuff you've had in your online course, which is about sleep and mindset and fitness, you know, and nutrition. And he's implementing it all. But you can guarantee you'll give that to other people exactly the same material and it just won't land with them. Have you ever had that where you're actually during a talk thinking this isn't going how I thought it should?

Oh, many times. Many, many times. I love the honesty. One of the advantages of speaking live, which we haven't had to the degree for the last two years, is that you get to see people's facial reactions. And even in rooms of thousands, your eyes will go to people, right? Because you want to connect with them. So you get to see their thing. So it's a good thing, but it's also a bad thing because when you looking at someone and they just, they're away with the Fairies, all right? Or they're on their phone, or worse still, they're eating a Burger King or something like that. You just think you're not getting it. Why am I not getting through to you? And then your focus becomes on trying to get them, which is wrong, by the way, but you can't help it. Focus. I need to make sure you get it. Out of 5,000 people, you're the one that I need to be talking to, which is the. But then you have to change and realize, look, just because one person's not getting it, it doesn't mean the rest aren't. And quite frankly, this one person might be getting it, but they're processing differently.

I'll tell you why that's important. I probably could have done with learning that myself. I did a talk probably about two years ago at Soho House in. Down in Soho in London, and there was about 25, 30 people in the room. And it was about the whole man academy and why men should get together to talk. And, yeah, all but two of the people were kind of seemed like they were nodding along and paying attention. And there was this one guy at the back who was probably in his early 50s, and he just was scrolling through his phone the whole time, and I was focusing on him, thinking, he hates me. He doesn't like it. He thinks it's shit. And at the end, he was the first one to come up and say, I took loads of notes on my phone. It was really good. Yeah, I was like, I just spent like half an hour concentrating on the. On that instead of actually thinking, you know, how am I delivering value to the people that, in my perception, wanted to want you to hear from it. So for me, one of the questions also, I know you've spoken on stage, you know, alongside, you know, some. Some big names. So are you. I know the answer is going to be yes, you know, continually becoming a better speaker by looking at them, but is there one in particular that you've taken more kind of. Can I say direction from?

Really good question. Really good question. No is going to be the answer. Because I like to see everybody in context and content, so I love to hear what they got to say for my own personal development. And that's content, but the context they take it in, I'm learning from them. How do they do that? Do they do that how I would do it? Or can I improve from that? Or things like that? So there's not one. Maybe I should go, oh, he's the most inspirational to me. Maybe I should be that type of person. That person is, you know, the God, the demigod for me. But unfortunately there isn't. I suppose I'm a great believer these guys are putting themselves out there. I feel for them. I know what it feels like to all that energy that it takes. So. And for that I respect them. So therefore I'm going to give them the time of day that they deserve and want and need rather than just choosing one over. But I think everyone comes with a different content. I think that's the difference. Everyone comes with different content and everyone's a different way of putting it across. But they move me not in a speaker's way, but certainly in. They helped me as a person and helped me as an entrepreneur.

I could talk for hours about what it's like for speaking as a, as a young. When I say young as in I'm 43 but you know, I've only started doing speaking in the last couple of years, so I'm on the first or second rung of learning. But I wanted for you because what I saw from some of the personal development stuff I went to was. What's the word? Like the persuasive presentations as it were. And you had some people, you know, ultimately at Tanner Robbins and this is one of the big things I spoke to a guy about recently with. If you've. There's a difference between just selling any old shit and selling something because you believe it can really help people. We know you've got positive intentions and therefore if you've got this great product. Some people struggle with selling because they feel like I'm selling and people are going to think I'm trying to sell to them. You're like, yeah, I've got this fucking great product and I want to bring it to you and then you can make a decision. So what's your thoughts on kind of, you know, persuasive presentations? Because you're trying to want to be authentic and is it all about practicing and practicing.

I'm gonna ask in that two ways actually, because I'm talk about practicing first because when I very first started and I knew I had an event coming up and I didn't know how many people they were going to be and but I just knew I had a 45 minute slot and I had to get my message across. So what I did was practice and I got myself a little flip chart and it was, I think it was the, the post it note version. So it's like the A1. Yeah, just rip it off and it was sticky at the Stuff I remember that because you can fold it and carry away. But I wanted to look at crowds, I wanted to look at eyes and I didn't know how to do that. So I went up, I was just in my house one day wandering around, you know, taking a break from practicing against the wall. And I went in my daughter's bedroom and in my daughter's bedroom against the wall was all her soft toys. So I stacked all her toys and her animals and all of that and got them all facing me, all their eyes, different shapes and sizes. So I started presenting to them and when I started presenting them, it made me look in their eyes, maybe swap my eyeline around and stuff like that. So that to me was one of my best practices that I do and I still use that kind of bit today. But regarding presentations, regarding the persuasive presentations and the marketing to many and selling to many rather than selling one to one, I would say 90% of all my speaks and presentations is marketing and selling one to many.

Right.

Only 10% of keynotes. And you're absolutely right. The only way that you can do that is with full sincerity is to have, is to have total belief in the product or the service that you're presenting to them. Yeah, that it will help them. And if they don't take up you up on that, then you're doing them an injustice because their life will do one of two things. Either will stay where it is, which is not why they turned up in the first place, or worse still, go to somebody who isn't or product isn't as good but is just a much better salesperson and sold somebody into that. And as you said in other things before, another of your podcasts that you bought stuff, we've all done it before, we bought stuff, thousands of dollars of stuff and we don't do anything with it because someone just sold us into it. So a good persuasive presentation, the marketing one to many or selling one to many has many elements to it. But the main elements would be full belief in the results it can produce for that particular person and quite frankly if it's not, if it's a great product but the wrong person at the other end. So for example, if you're trying to sell something and there's so many things worse, I'm not going to name anything, but you can sell something, let's say to an 80 year old man, a particular training who's never going to utilize or it's too late to use or something like that, then that's just insincere. No matter how good this product is, the wrong person. But yes, you have absolute belief that the person can actually benefit from it, will really benefit from their lives from it, and that what you have is the best on the market there. And if it's not the best on the market there, then you really shouldn't be putting your name, your face, your voice and your reputation behind it.

I always find it interesting because I know, I read on when I was kind of reading a bit more about yourself. You said most expert based entrepreneurs struggle with selling themselves and their services. And I guess, you know, even in my years of working the City, everybody is selling themselves. At some point it might be that you're pitching to your girlfriend, that you want to go out on a Saturday night with your mates, as well as, you know, doing a presentation to work. And that all comes down to, you know, the more you do in theory, you better. You get if you're also, if you're getting around the right people. And I wonder for you, is there one event that you've done or one event where you finished it and that was the one where you were like, I really nailed it. And therefore that gave you slightly more confidence. Because I go back to when I worked in the City, I didn't have to do many presentations to start with, but I remember I did one and it just went well. And it was that one kind of click that made me realize I am capable of this. And that can then be applied to a lot of other things. For a guy in life.

Yeah, that's a really good one. I'm very fortunate that I've had many events that have gone really, really well and people are running to the back of the room before I've even finished speaking, you know, and one could say that's really good. You know, I said, oh, I haven't even given you the price yet. And you're running to the back of the room. You know, there's scarcity at its best, right? But I think when it boils down to it, to answer your question, what was the one, was there one that really made it? Yes, I was at the Hilton and Guildford, right? It's one of my very first days I hit in Guildford. It's a little room, eight people in the room and it's a two. The program was like two grand £2,000. And I'm sitting to eight people and everything's going through my head as well as trying to get the message across, everything's going, does this make sense to Them, is there only 8? What chance have I got of sending if there's only eight in the room? You know, all the negatives are going through my head as well, but I think at the end of the day, three or four. This is way back when I first had three or four out. The eight went to the bank, got their credit card out and paid two grand each. And I thought, wow, wow. It's needed, it's wanted. My role now is to facilitate that and make sure it gets done and really look after these three or four people. But if these three or four people go back to what I said to you earlier, was that if you're going to do something, do to the best of your ability. It might not be the best in the world, but it's the best of your ability. And really show them your gratitude for putting that they put their trust in you. And that was when I went, well, okay, if they put their trust in you, it doesn't matter if it's the third person or the three thousandths person, you've still got to treat them as it was. So the phrase I've always had in my head, and I think this is a look, this might be your 300th presentation, but it's there first with you. So you give everything you can in that first presentation.

And that is it, isn't it? The more I either do podcasts or what have you realized that I had that overwhelming sense that you want to make sure, let's say, with the whole man Academy, that every interaction someone has with the whole man Academy is kind of fun, you know, and. And because, you know, some guys will have listened to all the podcasts and some this might be their first. And therefore, you can't kind of rest on your laurels, be like, oh, yeah, well, I'll be a bit low on this one because they know what I'm all about. Does that come down to, I guess, the word consistency? I mean, in business as well as in personal development and speaking?

Yes, I think it is consistency. It's absolute consistency can give predictive results. All right, and that's. That's the thing. If you're going to do something, there's generally going to be a result that you want out of it. It might be financial, it might be emotional, it might be spiritual, whatever it is, that when you're going to do something, there's generally a result you want. If you're going to work out, there's a reason why you're working out. All right, so it's, again, I'LL take the working out scenario. I was working out this morning and I've got to this particular set and I was struggling. Everything's shaking. And then in my head I was going, form over numbers, form over numbers, form over numbers. Yeah. If you're going to struggle, then finally struggle. You're human if you're going to struggle. But it's far better to get that one last best form out and then pack up the rest rather than have the rest not serving your purpose. And I think that's exactly the summary comes down to consistency is be consistent at something. If you're going to be consistent numbers, be consistent numbers, but know why you're being consistent numbers. If you're going to be consistent on a form, be consistent on form because you know why you want to be consistent on form but have a reason. Consistency can follow reason. It's easier to follow. Be consistent if you have a reason to do it. It's harder to be consistent if you don't have a reason to do it.

So that more from when I, when I left work in the city, I was, it was so life was quite easy in some ways because you just did your job and someone put money in your bank account at the end of the month and that was it. You didn't have to think of all the other things. And I know one of the guys that was helping us with the whole man academy said, if you want to be successful in what you're doing, you have to be. There's consistency. We've got to be relentless as well. It is that thing of not saying, oh, you know what, I can't bother this week because when you're working for yourself, you haven't got someone breathing over your shoulder saying, well, what you're doing, you've got no deadlines because you are the deadline maker. So how have you found that kind of with the motivation of being, you know, if you're running your own business, having ups and downs and also who have you spoken to along the way? Because the whole man academy is all about, you know, guys getting together to talk, be it, you know, as a youngster, as you're getting older, with kind of masterminds, which I was going to ask you about, but how have you found that with. With the ups and downs of entrepreneurship?

So it's interesting you talk about the act of entrepreneurship because it doesn't even. I learned that lesson when I was in sales, first and foremost when I was in. And when I was managing stuff, someone taught me as a sales manager when I was 18, 19, or something like that. But I used to tell my staff, I said, look, you are the CEO of your own firm. This desk is a profit center.

Yes.

All right, so this desk that you're at, even though you're an employee and you get paid at the end of the month, you got to think about it from a perspective, from a profit center. If I can have somebody who can make more money on that profit desk, I'm going to put them in that desk. So it's up to you now to prove that you're the one that can produce the most profit out of that desk, irrespective of the highs, the lows of the market and how you're feeling. And as you say, so you have to be consistency. There's no point moaning and groaning and blaming everybody else. And again, that's where I first learned accountability. You've got to find accountability in someone somewhere, but it has to be there. Because when you're on your own, it's very difficult to. The superstars of the world, the sports people of the world, you know, they all have their coaches. And this is what I learned when I first came into coaching. And people used to have all that blah, blah stuff and all that, that was cool. But. Yeah, of course. But it's true, you know, that the best in the world are the best in the world of what they do, whether it be golf, whether it be football, whatever. But they're still. What helped them along the way and probably still do, is the accountability to somebody. And what does accountability mean? It's doing the shit you said you were going to do. That's basically. There's too many people in this planet, on this world who say one thing and do another thing or worse, still don't do anything, right? And that accountability buddy, that accountability person, somebody who you respect, who you look up to, who you don't want to let down, that's the person that pushes you and drives you forward when you're having a bad day, when things aren't going right, when you get a bad message. I mean, I had. Somebody messaged me back yesterday, somebody who I do respect a lot. And a message went out, a marketing message went out, and he wrote back two words in capitals. Dude, yuck. And it really affected me. It was like. And it was almost like, oh, dude, yuck. What you do, sending me that kind of stuff. And that hits you for six, because you think I respect you, you want to, and now I've upset you or something like that as a human being. It's going to affect you as an entrepreneur. It's going to affect you, but you got to go, well, hold on a second. That went out, that message marketing message went out to hundreds of people. There's been a great response, but one person has come back and went, dude, yuck. In capitals, no less. He wasn't mucking about. He was basically, oi, dude, I don't want it. But that's their issue, not mine.

Yeah.

So it's hard if you're on your own and you don't have someone to turn to and go, hey, this is what happened. You know, something. A lot of this goes on in your head and that you're your own worst enemy. You know, your brain is. It makes heaven of hell and hell of heaven. And you've got to keep. Someone's got to keep that interact somewhere along the line, you know, we're not superhuman.

That's the thing, is that it's. And I go back to Mastermind because I'm. I was in like a little mini Mastermind and then I joined a bigger 1 of 8 kind of guys that all have or are working on online businesses of all different respects. And it was that thing of all getting together as well. And you'd learn from each other's mistakes, suggestions, and you'd also enjoy just saying, this is what's working, but this is what I'm working on. And they'd all chip in. And sometimes you get some really great ideas from a guy who had nothing to do with what your doing, but from the outs. He could kind of look from a, you know, a bird's eye view, as it were, and say, well, have you tried this? And you're like, oh, yeah. So what about yourself in Masterminds? Is that, is that something you've been in or, or been part of?

Absolutely. For the last probably three years, I'd say three to four years. I've been in numerous Masterminds, some online, some just. Just the fact that we're online as entrepreneurs.

Yeah.

And some that cost 25 grand a year to be around people who I want to be around. But it's, it's odd. Funny enough, we were talking about this earlier on, when I was in the 90s, when I was looking at how other businesses work and bringing it into your particular business. A business has nothing to do with your business, but look what they're doing. And effectively that's what a mastermind is, like you just said. And it's like you've got another guy who runs a completely Separate business to you. But they go, have you tried this? This is what's working in our industry. These are the real results we've got. And what I love about Masterminds is the non competitiveness of it. Yes, we can share numbers, we can share results and that drives and helps the people. And you can also share your. As you well know, in Masterminds, you can share your failures as well. And as an entrepreneur, it's not especially British entrepreneurs, you know, British entrepreneurs don't talk about money and they certainly don't talk about failure. All right. And failures.

Yeah.

Here in America everyone talks about money because it seems to be the thing in America, for some reason I still find it crashed to a degree, but that's because I'm British, not because there's anything wrong with what they do, but they're not afraid to share their failures.

Yeah.

And that's such a big learning curve when, when you can share. Look, I tried this and I go, what the numbers you got? And I've got this. It's complete for how much that cost you. But it just forces you to look at it at a deeper level rather than brush under the carpet, as we used to say, you know, just brush under the carpet.

Yep.

Don't worry.

Yeah, yeah, we don't want to talk about that. Yeah. And it just means you're back on your own again because, you know, you've brushed under the carpet.

Yeah.

It's still your carpet. Right. Everyone else has left. It's now, you didn't bring it up. It's still your carpet. You're going to go back to, you know, it's underneath it. So I think it's really healthy to bring out failures, to bring out what you've tried, what's worked, what hasn't worked. So I'm an absolute, real believer that in Masterminds and yeah, there are plenty about online and offline.

Yeah, no, it's definitely something because we were, we were close to launching our own Mastermind at the start of 2020 and then of course it fucked things up because you want, you know, people weren't traveling or getting together and, and for me that the importance was. Although it would have been mainly online, we all know the power of getting together in the room. You know, it's, it's a totally different experience when you can, I don't know, you can see someone, warts and all, instead of them kind of, you know, just sitting behind a screen sometimes with a fake wooden background and, you know, who knows, who knows what's really going in their life.

Yeah.

Well, I wanted for you also I could talk to you for age about this stuff. That's why I realized we're racing through time. But with your own health. I know you said that you stopped smoking, but one of the big things for me about personal development was the big importance of health. Health is your wealth and if you're eating shit and drinking crap and spending time doing things that are toxic for your body, it's going to pay you back at some point. So what about yourself with your kind of health journey, as it were?

I always used to be a very keen sports as I was growing up. I used to play a lot of rugby. I used to play rugby for Surrey when I was younger and then I went into martial arts and did 10 years of martial arts in taekwondo and kung fu. So I've always kept myself really, really busy and until my body just kind of really decided it didn't want to take any more bashings, Right. I didn't want to take any more sprains or broken bones or things like that. And then I've got to admit, unfortunately, that I focus on work, as I said, when I've really focused on building the estate agency and becoming partner, I let everything slide. I drank too much at the wrong crap, you know, and partied miles too much as an escape. And the smoking part of it was, I mean, I didn't smoke or drink and I started smoking when I was 18 and I didn't drink until I was like 24 because I was like, yeah, really? But then I just was like, I was like a mad, possessed man. Just came out and just. I went everything to, you know, excess.

Yes.

It was crazy. So I decided to make this health, this health conversion over it. And I kept struggling for years and years and years. And it's funny how it's always one person in your life that will, no matter what you're struggling with, they'll just drop this, they'll just drop a bomb and you'll go, oh, yeah, why didn't I know that? It was just. It's just so much, so much simpler. It was about healthy eating and stuff like that.

Yeah.

And she said to me, she said, look, Gary, everyone makes excuses, we all know. And I said, oh, my bucket's so full. We got all this, that it's just crazy. And as you know, I'm flying all around the world, I'm doing this, I'm. I don't have time to eat properly. And all the excuses came out, right? Yeah. She goes yeah, but do you have to drink so much? Well, I'm in the airport lounge. I just give it to me and give me. I live in hotels and it was. When I look back at it, there's just excuses, really bad excuses. But anyway, she turned around, said, look, don't try and make up. Your challenge is you're trying to make too much of a big change. All right? So why don't you do this? Let's say your bucket is full, right? And the bucket is full of crap, right? There's just so much crap in this bucket. You keep filling out with crap, so you obviously enjoy your crap, so just keep eating the crap. But what I'm going to ask you to do is just, like, take a little bit off the top and leave some room for some veg. Yeah, I think it was veg. Fruit and veg. What she said, just leave some. Just have a little bit more fruit and veg, that's all. You still fill your bucket. Go for your life. Fill your bucket. But just leave a little bit more room. Because if you just leave a little bit more room and put some in, it's better than not having anything in. And I thought, I could do that. I could do that. So I started doing that and I started doing it. After a while, you start thinking, oh, I think I can leave a little bit more room for a little bit more veg. And all of a sudden, it starts to. What you're putting in, you're still taking the same amount. You're still having your naughty bits, as it were, but you're having less and less and less of your naughty bits as you're making that transition. And I believe it's a lot easier to do a transition as opposed to a change. A change is very hard for people to do because there's muscle memory, right? Everything. Muscle memory, brain memory, everything is the way you should be doing it. That's what you're used to. So don't take that muscle memory, right? Don't try and clash with that muscle memory. Just do this transition. And that's what's turned me around. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm still 50, 50, you know, I'm still 50% crap and I'm 50%. They maybe 60, 40 in good. But the smoking thing was I tried everything. And I know you've heard that before. Everyone's heard that.

Yeah.

It was the day I stopped smoking was January 13, 2013. Always remember that day.

Yeah.

And the reason why I gave it up is because I was wheezing and my son said to me, he goes, why are you wheezing? Because I'm. Yeah, I must have a cough or something. And I went to the doctors and typical good old GPs in London. So I'm wheezing, I'm wheezing. Can you give me some for wheezing And. Yes, no, you're wheezing because you smoke. It doesn't matter what I give you. Yeah, wheezing because you smoke. So I can't give you anything. And even I could, I would not give it to you because it's just so that was the point where I thought, okay, I've got to change this, all right? Because I don't want my son thinking I'm wheezing and setting a bad example. And I tried the acupuncture and I tried the patches and I tried the gum and I tried everything. And this is an interesting story, actually. A friend of mine who was a postman down in Kent, and he said, I tried this thing called. For the life of me, I can't remember what it was called anyway, but what it was, it was bioresonance. That's what it's called, bioresonance. Bioresence therapy. I never heard of it before. And basically what it was was a lady came round and remember, I had tried all this stuff and even NLP, hypnotism. I've done three or four of those sessions and I lasted 24 hours, all right? And now it's back to willpower again. And, you know, that's. It was really hard and it annoyed me because I thought, how can I be successful doing this stuff? And this simple task of giving up smoking, of stop. So how can I just. What am I struggling with here? But once I decided that to stop struggling and then just to seek a solution, right? Stop fighting it, seeker. That doesn't work. Don't worry about that. Doesn't work. Everyone says NLP and hypnotherapy should work. Well, it didn't. I've tried it. I did it three times. It didn't. So I'm not going to fight that. So this bioresence therapy, I said, give it a go. I mean, okay, then. I never heard of it before. Apparently it was on TV AM one morning and whatever. And literally this lady came around. I've got to say, if we got time, I just want to share this very quick story. She came around with this little briefcase thing and a little laptop. She came to my apartment in London, in Wimbledon, and she says, make sure you got Lots of water. I want you to have at least two to four liters of water. I went, okay. And she literally. She popped open this laptop and this little metal suitcase, you know, like a film, like in the movies. There's a thing, I'll suspect, a little white coat to come on or whatever. And then she brought out these. All I can. The best way to describe, like, swimming bands. You know, the bands you get at the swimming pool where you've got to say, this is your time to get out the pool, because you're a blue or you're a green or whatever, and a very thin wire attached to it. So I literally put these bands on my wrist and my ankles. Four bands. Don't feel them because they're just like rubber bands.

Yeah.

Not tight. They're just there. And four wires into the computer. What's your weight? How long you been smoking? And she starts slapping the laptop, and she goes, fine. Boom. See you in 45 minutes. And you love it. I literally did not feel it. But I'm drinking this water at gallons. And she's in the next room. She's talking to my girlfriend at the time. And I'm sitting there and I'm dying for a pee. And I'm going, I've been drinking all this water. But I didn't want to move in case it broke something. Yeah. And I saw Shadow. I said, excuse me, I need to go to the peak. I need to go for. I'll go for wee or whatever. She goes, oh, that's fine. Just take them off, go for a win, come back again. Okay. Now I'm thinking this is just having a laugh. Two or three hundred pounds or something. Two or three hundred quid. And I've got these silly bands which I don't even know. It's not even beeping. If it beeps. I thought it was doing something, but it just wasn't even beeping.

And you give us a beep.

45 minutes later, she went, boom. Thanks for it. You're done. Cool.

All right.

Well, she asked, what have you done there? She goes, well, what I've really done is actually, with the bioresonance, like a tuning fork, I put your body back into. Into sync with where it was before. What shows. Yeah. So effectively, in layman's terms, I've wiped out your body's memory of smoking.

Wow.

Yeah.

Right.

Okay. All right, then. This is it. But anyway, she left, and I didn't fancy a cigarette.

Yeah.

I went out, went down to the pub, because that's always my big Test and people there are smoking. I gotta go on there. I could smell it or whatever. Anyway, this, this, this what? My friend of mine, she turned around, she says, hey, do you want a cigarette? As they do. We were passing the cigarettes around. I said, oh. I went, no, thanks. I don't smoke. And it was like, weird. It's like my body had. Even though I could taste the cigarette, the virtual cigarette, as it were, my brain was. I don't smoke. It's like I almost forgot how to smoke. And it was just this amazing thing. And I literally haven't touched a cigarette since. I've had no desire for one. Yeah, it's just worked.

I love stories.

Not more popular.

But the important part of that was, you know, I've studied NLP and I've. And I've been trained in hypnotherapy, even though I. It was part of the course I went on, which is great, but I didn't have the interest in actually kind of actioning it afterwards. But one of the, you know, one of the guys there said, you got to remember that, you know, some things work for some people. You know, some people are. It's a bit like at the moment, you know, the media with their words and their language and their. And they're. What's the word I'm looking for? The images that they show. You know, some people are susceptible and believe anything they read in the newspapers or on the telly, which is probably why we're in such a mess. But some people aren't susceptible to it. I guess that's one of those things that you go, well, look, as you say, you, you know, you. You know enough about that stuff to try it and then just go, it's not for me.

Yeah, I mean, it's worked through tremendous other people. And this NLP has it as I use NLP when I'm speaking.

Yeah.

When I'm presenting, I use NLP a lot because it's. It's to help people break down those barriers so that they actually get involved in your conversation. Right. But yeah, it's. It. I was accepted. I didn't say it didn't. It was wrong. I just said it just didn't work for me.

Yeah, I think it's an important lesson for people is, you know, just because this thing works for you. I mean, we know people. My partner's a nutritionist, naturopathic nutritionist. And she'll have someone say, yeah, but, you know, Barbara down the road has lost loads of weight because she's doing the. This and you're like, yeah, but you're not Barbara. And maybe you've been through the menopause or she breastfed or she's done this, or, you know, she's got different genes and you're like, just a reminder that everybody's different. Well, two last questions was, again, I know we could speak for age. I do feel like we've got another podcast in us one day, hopefully in person, if you're, if you're ever in the uk. But it was about like the high ticket sales and I know I mentioned to one of my friends who is in. Is in business and I said, I was interviewing yourself and, and he had a look at your website and he was the same as me. He's like, it's always interesting to know a few bits about how you teach people high ticket sales as opposed to normal sales. Because of course, when someone's parting with, you know, 5, 10, 20 grand, it's a. Maybe it's a. It's a different environment, different investment, literally, to someone that's, you know, giving over 30 quid for something, what's on the high ticket sales?

Well, again, that's a whole massive. What's your thoughts on it? Right. But I think. But the definition of a high ticket service or a high ticket product is, yeah, it's five grand upwards, right? And right up to 100, 200 grand, it doesn't matter. But you use a keyword which was investment, right. And it's not. You're not buying something, there isn't a cost to do. If you have a true high ticket, something that's of value, then that becomes an investment. So where's the difference? Where the mindset that a lot of stuff I have to work with with my clients initially is their own mindset, is their own belief of what they absolutely have. You know, and I've had people who, I've worked with, people who had $1,000 product, which is now a $15,000 product, but it wasn't. The product didn't really change that much. It was their mindset that absolutely changed. Had a guy recently in the relationship field, so you'd think, well, that's not even a product. He's coaching in a relationship. He coaches men in relationships, big CEOs who focus on the business rather than their relationships. So it's really intangible. But once he got his head around, he went from five grand to 25,001. It's the same package, just changed his mindset. So first and foremost it's mindset. But what comes down to it ultimately is how do you define it and what helps your mindset is the problem that you solve, Right?

Yep.

So that's what it boils down to. And everyone goes, yeah, it's the problem that you solve. But if you've got to know who your ride or paying client is, you know, the avatar as it's normally called, but I call it your idle paying client because there's lots and lots of coaches out there who have lots and lots of idle clients who haven't paid them a penny. Right. They've helped them all, but they haven't paid them a penny. So who's your idle paying guy? Someone who pay you for it, who pay you high ticket. And you want to know what their biggest problem is and what does that problem cost? So effectively, if you want to charge five figures for, you know, 10 grand, 25 grand, 50 grand, you better be solving a six figure problem.

Problem. Yep.

Okay, you want to be charging six figures, you've got to charge us. You've got to find a seven figure problem. And if you can't monetize for yourself the problem, you're not going to be able to monetize that as a return upon investment for your clients. So a lot of this work is, is on the, on the actual client, your mindset, then the problem before the solution. And I think a lot of coaches and trainers and they, they come with a solution and try and shove it down their throats and go, this is a ten grand, this is a ten grand solution to all your problems. This is what I do, just glorified pill and it'll be boom, you'll be this. And some, some of them might get through, but it's not sustainable. All right. And it's certainly not scalable because there's only one way to go from there and that's down because you'll eventually want to scale and therefore you have to drop your prices so it's a lot easier to come in high, a lot higher, find the true value of it. And then once you know the true value, it's a case of just conversing with people to get them to feel their current challenges. And they'd be, oh, it is a seven figure problem. Didn't realize it was a seven figure problem. Didn't realize it was going to cost me this, you know, and my client who I've just been speaking about, you know, he works in an industry where divorce is rife.

Yeah.

And how do you put a price on divorce? It's a lot Especially if you're a very successful CEO or something like that, or a company that can really rack up. So once you really put them in that position, you're worth the 25 grand is. It becomes an awful lot easier to transition over.

It's really interesting and definitely something that I guess when I worked in the city, you just didn't have to. That's what I was saying. When you're an employee and you're working in a certain kind of department or division or something, you didn't have to think of that kind of stuff. So I find it so interesting to, you know, why will one person happily drop ten grand on a product and the other person doesn't? As you say, it's all of the different things. You know, have they used the right language to market to them, do they understand what their pain points are, etc. So I'm slowly learning and hopefully the guys that are listening to this are picking up some golden nuggets. Well, last question was about. We talked about being relentless and things, but relentless and crazy things for me is you doing shark diving. And it's not just shark diving. It's no tank shark diving.

Yeah. No cage, no cage, no cage.

Sorry. So how have you even got into that?

Because I'm a crazy motherfucker. I would try anything once, and once I try it, if I enjoy it, I'll keep on doing it. So I was in cape town probably 10 years ago and went out shark diving in a cage. And you had to on a boat six, seven hours. And you go into a cage and they feed these big white sharks. The big white sharks come bang. They bang into your cage, and whoa, it's a big, scariest thing. And I loved it. I really, really loved it, you know? And that day ended very, very quickly because some American guy, ex Marine, who thought the rules didn't apply to him. The simple rule, don't stick anything out of the cage, right? That's a simple rule. Don't stick your finger out of the cage. Don't stick anything out of the. Well, he decided that his GoPro was allowed to go out the cage. So he stuck his GoPro out of the cage to see the shark coming. And as the shark hit the cage, the sharp tooth nipped his finger and sliced his bottom finger all right off. And there was blood everywhere. And all of a sudden, they pulled the guys out of the cage, dumped the cage, and all hell went back to the door. And I thought, okay. But I was in Mozambique a couple years later. I was in Mozambique. And I was diving, they go, do you want to go shark diving? I love shark diving. This is an okay chart. You can go feed the sharks. Feed the sharks. So we're sitting on this thingy, this rib boat. We're going out there and there's eight of us on this boat and there's a, there's a, there's a cage next to it. And we get to this point and they start chomping the sharks and all the sharks coming, coming round and they're just circling the boat. And they said, right, who, who's our free diver? Who are, who are our free divers on the boat? And I saw my hand up and I looked around as I said, there's eight of us on the boat. I looked around, it was just me, it was just me on the boat. All right. And they went, right, so this is what you do. Do you see the buoy over there? I want you to roll into the, into the water. Make sure you have your gloves on so you can't see your skin because of the reflection.

You make sure. Yeah.

Cross your arms and just swim across the buoy and then drop 10, 10 meters, 30ft and, and then hover. Right, And I'll come and get you then. Okay. Anyway, this, remember there are sharks circling the boat and they're chomping the shark and after 1, 2, and all of a sudden you can see that I'm ready, got my mask on, I'm ready to go, I've got my fiber. Over I go. And my last, my last depression view, my last memory of thing is seeing everyone on the boat going the, over into the, into the water, into the shark infested water. And I go down. And as I go over, I go down, I hover around 30ft and then all of a sudden this bucket of Trump is lowered above my head.

Yeah, right.

And now all these sharks starts coming round. They, and they're circling and they look like they're circling me because I'm literally just below this jump, this bucket of jump. And as they're circling and as it starts wiggling this thing and then more sharks hit the bucket and then more blood comes out and then more sharks turn around, it must have been around 20, 22 sharks. And then they start hitting me and I'm being tossed and turned and oh, the thing that he had to tell me at the topic is, remember when the sharks hit you, they're not there for you, they're there for the food. So don't react.

Just, just do your thing.

Freak out yeah, don't freak out and start waving your hands because they'll start thinking that's now the food. Right? So you just gotta. You've gotta breathe properly. Breathe, breathe. Pro. Control your breathing was the last thing he said to me. Anyway, the shot came. Swore to my alpha and I used all my tank in like five minutes. Because this shock is literally like Jaws coming straight at you as this thing, this shark and his teeth and stuff. Anyway, that was five minutes I got back on the boat and I was hooked back. I booked the next day. I was down there for an hour with these beautiful things knocking me over, bumping into me, stroking them. And ever since then, whenever I go around the world, literally the last time I traveled internationally pre Covid was to Bahamas. And, you know, I don't know if you saw the. The old James Bond film when he was diving with sharks. And then they're fighting with the sharks now. Well, that's where I was diving with sharks. And it was just. Just an amazing experience to just to be there with these guys in their territory, knowing that you screw up, you become their dinner. Right? You just don't screw up. So there's all kinds of consistency again, right? It's just do the right thing and you'll be okay.

I wonder. I wonder whether I'd be able to do that, because I guess that at those, especially the first time you do it, it really is a lesson in how to stay calm.

Yeah.

And I guess you can only. I'll tell you why I laugh, because when I went to Life and Wealth Mastery, where I met Heather and they did a. And it was at the Ritz in Tenerife. And on day one or day two, I can't remember, you all went up to kind of a bit of a. Felt like a bit of a mountain. And you had to scale this like a telegraph pole, like. And you were attached to a harness. And now I was doing a lot of obstacle course racing. At times I was like, get out of my way, this is easy. I'm coming through. And I remember, let the expert through.

I know what I'm doing.

And I got just near to the top and it was pretty, pretty high. And I was like, yeah, whatever. And then it was the moment when I had to put my foot on the top and take. And take my hands off and actually stand up. And at that moment I froze. And I could hear people going like, come on, just take the step. And I was like, shut the fuck up. I'm trying. And I just couldn't move for 30 seconds. It's surprising how quickly you could start sweating, especially in the sun shining. And I did stand up there. But it made me realize that in those moments I wasn't at that time able to control. I'd gone from relaxed and chilled to suddenly heart rate rocketing. And I can only imagine what that's, you know, what that must be like when you're down there. I guess there's been times when people have kind of just said this isn't for me.

I think that's exactly in life, that's everything, isn't it? So as I said, giving everything a go once, not being afraid of your own shadow. I think such a shame that people, because of the press or whatever what they've read or their past, whatever, and whatever the reasons, they're fine. The reasons are fine. All right. Whatever the reasons are for not giving something a go. But. But what I really want to encourage people to do in anything is to, is to have the courage to take a leap every now and again. Because it doesn't have to be just choose one thing. It doesn't have to be on your bucket list. Just choose one thing that scares you. I can't remember the book that does it. Just choose the one thing that scares you every day and do it right. It's not face your fears look, it's just choose one thing that scares you and do it. And it's funny after a while that you've done one thing that scares you that wasn't too bad and then you do something else that scares you.

What's next?

What's next? Let me do it. And then you just. Eventually. I have no intentions of being the next big race or I have no intentions of being something like him, but I know what I like. But it's not just the sharp thing. It also means that doing things in life which scare you. For me to pack up my whole life and move over to America.

Yeah.

Yes, it was for the woman I love, but it was. But it's still me. I've still got to think, oh, my whole history is. Is there. Even though I traveled around the world, my history in a home is in London. And to come over here into brand new world is big and scary. So if you have a good enough reason, that's, that's really good. But you also need to find courage. And courage comes in little bits. You know, you build up courage and trying to get the bit. It's like trying to get into the ring with. You know when McGregor the moment go, yeah, I've done. I've done a bit of boxing down the thing. I'll go into the ring with him. That's kind of. And he's going to go full power. That's gonna take a lot more courage. But if you build it up, build it up and build it up, then the courage comes. We're not going to be stupid about courage. You know, the thin line between stupidity and courage.

But you're right. And I guess it also links back to it's having, you know, you can't always be super motivated. I know Tony Robbins changed it from being in a peak state to being in a beautiful state because being in a peak state is really tiring. It's exhausting. And there's a. And there's a time and a place for it. And I guess that comes in. It's trying to find the courage at the right time when you're motivated and have some accountability to be focused on what you need to do. And I guess that comes back to where a coach comes in. They try and take all the ingredients. So at the right time, you take the right action. Which I guess is another podcast, but so. Well, look, I've taken enough of your time. I know there's definitely some more we're going to hopefully talk about at some point. What are your plans the rest of today?

The rest of that. I've actually got to do a presentation tomorrow morning in Hong Kong. So it's online. Yeah, that'd be a first thing at 5 o' clock in the morning tomorrow from here. So I'd be doing some prep for that. But we've literally just bought ourselves a nice little condo on the beach that's going for a bit of a remodel. So I think I'll have to spend the rest of the afternoon in between remodeling a beer and a beach.

Sounds good to me. Then it's a bit of sunshine our way and a bit of sunshine. Yeah, it's great to talk to you also because, you know, Heather spoke to me about you a long time ago and I remember, you know, I always written, I've got a nice list of people I love to have at some point on the podcast and it was quite a while ago. I wrote your name down and it's always good when it's someone else that you've really enjoyed talking to who's dropped some good gold nuggets and actually you've had a. Had a good laugh with as well.

So, mate, I've enjoyed it. It's been really good all right.

Well, I'll speak to you soon, Gary.

You too, buddy. Speak to you later. Bye, guys.

Thanks for listening. Remember to sign up to our game changing weekly E letter that's read by men around the world. Sign up@homemanacademy.com forward slash movement. Until next time.