EP102 - ED DRAPER - DOING LIFE BETTER | WHOLE MAN ACADEMY

Okay guys, before we jump into the podcast this week Ed Draper, the Sky Sports presenter has flipped things around and invited me on his Sport and Life podcast which is a belter. So we dive into lots of different interesting topics. But again we thought we'd share it multi purpose our content so you guys can enjoy it and pick up all the golden nuggets to help you live your own version of an epic life. Right, let's jump in. Take it away, Ed.

Wholeman Academy because the world needs strong men, Wholeman Academy is changing the game for men around the world. It's for guys who want to live an epic life of fun and adventure. No matter what we believe, deep down, all men want to go on their own hero's journey to becoming resilient, confident, fearless and fulfilled listening to be inspired by guys who don't settle for living a life of mediocrity. This is your call to action and call to adventure.

Are you ready?

Anthony Asprey? Welcome to the podcast Sport and Life. I think it's your technically your second appearance, maybe a third appearance of mine because we did one for Whole Man Academy podcast and then we did. We've shared content across the board and I think we're going to share this on, on your platform as well. But good to see you mate. How are you?

I'm very well. It's as we're coming out of, we talked about just before we went on on record about the weather and I'm just looking forward to some sunnier weather because I'm kind of done with winter and going outside with fleeces on and body warmers and stuff. So I'm good but I just need a little bit of sunshine.

Yeah, it's very. We're talking about the English weather being very much nondescript. Like it sort of hovers between sort of mild and chilly in terms of most of the, most of the year. But it seems like it's been a sort of non cold winter, but just one that's dragged in terms of a lot of wind and quite a lot of rain. So it's been.

Well, we threatened to play tennis at some times, don't we? But when it's like this. So yeah, at some point I'll embarrass myself and come over and you can, I was going to say you can whip me but that's, that's going to sound like strange at the start of the podcast.

Well, I've just, I've just missed the call actually. I thought I was having it tomorrow but I've got A pre operation consult consultation with where I'm getting my keyhole knee surgery next month. So once that's out the way with get my meniscus sorted. I've been having like gentle knocks with my wife actually, which is just dollying it over the neck. But I did it, which a lot of people are going through this. I'm realizing I played football for the first time. I played once in lockdown and I played once again eight months later. And I had the wrong footwear. It was an indoor cricket hall. And I went in goal for the last five minutes and basically slipped, scrambling to get a rebound. And then my, my grip. I had AstroTurf on indoors, which I should have been wearing indoor shoes, but I didn't know it was the first time I played there. And it caught the surface and then my knee and ankle went over the sort of the wrong direction over the top and I ended up doing the ankle strain, which I thought was the main thing because I couldn't walk for about 10 days but then transpired the knee was also screwed. And then I had a. Ended up getting an MRI last month. And they said that the meniscus and obviously it's a knee specialist, so they're biased, I suppose. But the knee specialist said you need to operate because meniscus doesn't repair itself. So you have to sort of basically spread it out between your bones. So it's not bone on bone. So it's just affect you.

I was gonna say, how did it affect you? Because we always say on the whole man academy, you know, you're one of the big things is your health is your wealth and you know, you can have all the money in the bank and have all the boxes tick, but if you'll suddenly get injured or you're unwell, it can have a big effect. But how did you get on them with trying to get to work? Because I assume. Could you drive?

No, not for the first sort of week or so, no. So I was. Yeah, I had to take time off work, which is embarrassing. And then the next month had Covid, not too badly, but again at the time you couldn't go out the house. So seven days, I think six, seven days until I tested negative. So I had to have time off. So I felt embarrassed about that. And then I've got to take a few more days off, another week off in May, which, you know, I've done it when it's convenient for work. But you do feel a little bit embarrassed. And yes, I find it very frustrating. I think people It's a difficult balance between being peaceful with things and accepting what happens, but also not necessarily overly accepting, being kind of decrepit as you get older, because I think you see some people who seem to embrace it, and I sort of, you know, still rail against that. But it's interesting, the conversations you have, particularly with older people in the street. They're like, oh, not as young as you used to be, and all this stuff. You're like, well, I'm not. I'm still gonna. It wasn't like, you know, I'm not playing in the Premier League. It's. Zlatan Ibrahimovic is still playing at my age. It's serie A. He's 40. So I think I can probably still play by the side.

But he's in good shape.

Yeah, yeah, but it's. Yeah, but it's. It's a consideration, actually. Do you think, do I go back and do this and how do I do it? But I think I'll be a bit more thoughtful about where I play and what footwear I wear and get back into. Because my brother did his Achilles tendon, actually. He's out for six months. He's on crutches for a long time, which is brutal. And then I know another guy's done his meniscus in both knees because he had gone back to playing football for the first time since the pandemic. And I think a lot of people are probably of a certain 30s and 40s now getting injuries that. Because they stopped. So I think the key is work your way back and don't stop. Yeah.

And that's one of the big things about when I had my collapsed lung when I was much younger, in my 20s, you know, I appreciated going back to the football so much because I got kind of threatened with, oh, you might not be able to play again if you don't heal properly.

Yeah.

And, yeah, going back into it, that first kind of match when I'd got properly matched, fit like. I had a newfound appreciation for football like you wouldn't believe, because I'd missed it so much. But. But that was perhaps.

How did you have a. What was a collapsed lung from.

So I had a spontaneous pneumothorax, which means your lung just collapses. There's no particular reason why I wasn't doing. I wasn't doing anything particular. I wasn't doing anything strenuous, wasn't in an impact situation. And what happened is that your lung had torn and of course, the air rushes to the outside of your. Or the. The kind of outer cavity of your lung. And your lung, like a balloon, deflates. But the problem is the more you breathe, which is always helpful to breathe.

Yeah.

The. The pressure builds up as if you're having a heart attack or what is the same symptoms? Because your left arm kind of goes numb. You know, you can't breathe properly because your heart's being compressed. So then you have to have a really lovely. Either a chest drain put in, which was for a whole week, which was nice, and let it slowly heal, or when it didn't work off. The third time they did a quarter me, which I can't spell, let alone pronounce, but it's a beautiful procedure where they deflate your lung and they scrape the outer wall of your lung so it bleeds and they reinflate it so it sticks to the outer wall of your lungs. So you're basically. One of your lungs doesn't go up and down anymore. It just stays completely inflated. So I was just writing about it for our E letter, actually, because that. That's the first time I had an issue with body confidence because suddenly I couldn't do anything for. I think it was roughly six months. Like, you weren't even allowed to get out of breath for. For obvious reasons, because your lung was repairing, so there was no gym, no exercise. And, you know, I struggled with that because I was desperate to do stuff. So when I did get back to it. Wow. I had a new appreciation for football and everything else.

Yeah. Yeah. Is your lung okay now? Is it fully functional?

Yeah. I mean, that was in my 20s, but I. For quite a long time, I still had that. In the back of your mind, it's like if you've broken your ankle or something, you know, you don't go into tackles again properly for quite a long time because there's something holding you back. And I was really, you know, for a while I played, but I was probably playing 80% because you were just a little bit worried. So. Yeah.

They always say if you don't go into challenges hard, you're more likely to get injured as well, don't you?

That's it. Yeah. Yeah. So it was. But yeah, it's funny, it's like all things. When you have something taken away from you, you then come back and you really appreciate it.

It's going to be a balance, isn't it? Because James Golden, AKA the Fitness Pros, he's been a regular guest on here and a mutual friend and we've talked about it. He was playing football last year. Absolutely loving it. I Think from mental health perspective. And I think for me, it's the most immersive escapism that I still can get is, you know, particularly indoors, because the ball literally doesn't stop. So you're in no time to think about your meetings or, you know, work tomorrow or that bill you have to pay. It's like. But at the same time, the downside of getting injured is pretty brutal. And if you do roll an ankle or twist a knee, it's that you can't then do other stuff for six weeks, two months, whatever it is. Because I think he's had a tense Achilles tendon for a while and he's obviously a fitness professional, so he's been anxious about that, I think, and whether he should play football or not. Because like I say, my brother's Achilles went. And that's a brutal injury.

Yeah, it's a long, long term one. And there's the problem also when you work for yourself.

Yeah.

Because, you know, when I worked in the city, yes, I broke my ankle as well and. But I still got crutches to work and I sat with my foot up on my desk whilst I was doing my. Or I was a broker at the time. But, you know, if that happened now when you're trying to travel around and go to coaching people and mentoring people, etc. Then you're in trouble. So people always say, oh, it's great to work for yourself. And it is. As long as you stay fit and healthy.

Yeah, you take a lot less sick days than if you're a staff. Although to be honest with staff, the last couple years, they don't want you to go anywhere else. So it's kind of a win, win situation at the moment. Um, but that's a, that's a. Yeah, that's a really difficult balance as you, as you get older. But it's like I say, I'm going to try and get fit. The doctors seem quite optimistic about it in terms of the recovery, so I think we'll, we'll work. But I want to make sure that, yeah, I kind of research which games I play in and what surfaces and that kind of stuff a little bit more before I jump into it. Um, but it's. Yeah, it's a funny thing. Is it getting older? I was at a wedding actually, this past weekend, my brother's baby brother's wedding. He's just turned 30. J.J. draper, who's a singer, songwriter, is online. I am J.J. draper, if you want to listen to his, his music. But there was a sort of Broad spectrum of people, from young babies to older people. And it did, I suppose, like the injury, bring a sort of sense of carpe diem, doesn't it? Because you're right in the middle of that spectrum. You're looking at people and you see the, the life force be so strong and then just drain gradually out people. Not to be pessimistic, but it does make you think of seizing the day. Was your lung, was your lung injury, did that impact your decision to leave the city in any way?

No, I mean that was, that was in my 20s. But um, I did have it once or twice where, when I did injure myself as I was leaving the city, it was that thing of you were then in your 30s and you recovered slower, you know. And I remember tearing my rotator cuff and I went to see a kind of specialist and he was like, how old are you? And I think I was 34. And he was kind of telling me how much quicker I would have recovered if I was, you know, in my 20s than even in my 30s. Yes, I'll be, I'll be 44 this year. So, you know, I do find everything aches a bit more and you know, you, you, you can't do such intense stuff, especially when you've got kids and, you know, business to run and et cetera. I just don't have the time to do such intense exercise.

Not sleeping. The recovery is like you hit on both ends as well, aren't you? Because your physiology is a bit slower, but you're also more in a more demanding situation in your 20s. You could sleep 10 hours if you wanted to.

Well, I don't know if you saw, I haven't even looked into it, but I saw some of the headlines where people had shared with the clocks going back where you got going forward, where you lost an hour, that there was a rise in heart attacks across something like 20 odd percent. And then when you get the extra hours sleep, then there's a decrease in heart attacks in that respect, which just shows you, I mean, for all of us, we all know, having a good night's sleep, you wake up feeling refreshed and ready to go and you have a crap night's sleep. You wake up and you're like, I just need like another half hour under the duvet and coffee injected in your eye.

Yes, yeah, I know. Well, actually one of the things I'm on sort of permanent fixtures at sky, which has been shifts, which has been sort of really life changing for me, although three of them are late. So I'M going to bed at 2am roughly three times a week. It's still much better than the hodgepodge, a variety of shifts I was doing before. And actually one of the dreaded ones would be that Sunday of the clock change when it went forward, if you're on an early shift, because ordinarily you'd be getting up between three and four, but suddenly you're then an hour earlier and it's that horrib feeling that you know you're going to have that stolen from you. So it's. And the anxiety of. Yeah, whether your clock's going to work and things like that. So it's great not to be on those. Those early shifts for. For sure. But yeah, that's an interesting one, isn't it? Because you've got 100 podcasts up for the whole man academy, which is brilliant. That interplay between sleep and challenging ourselves is always an interesting. Wasn't it? Is that. Is that something you've explored quite a lot?

Yeah. And it's trying to find. I know people kind of talk about balance and, you know, especially, I think, as. As guys or for anybody, whenever you do have kids, it suddenly adds a new dimension to it because you can't be so, you know, beautifully selfish. I mean, a good example. This weekend my partner is going with the kids to London and I've got to stay up in the Cotswolds because I've got so much to do. But I can't wait to have two days where I will be really busy, but I can do everything on my time frame and not have to kind of consider, you know, anybody else. And then I noticed that the Liverpool man City match on Sunday afternoon at half four, which could be interesting timing, but the podcast had been a big one because what I wanted it to do was find interesting men from all over the world that had, you know, either a motivational story or something really interesting, some kind of golden nuggets. But that meant it was guys from Canada. And, you know, we've spoke from guys from Nicaragua, from Canada, from the us all different kind of places. So that adds the time zone situation. So sometimes you'd be doing a podcast at 9 o' clock at night if they're guys in Australia or somewhere. And, you know, generally I go to bed at 10 o' clock these days. So when you're trying to maintain a good level of energy during the podcast and then it's quarter to ten and you're thinking, I've been up since half past five. Yes. You know, doing the podcasts is great fun and the reason why I did it also not just to provide value for guys listening was also it's expanded my own network and with the mentoring I do now, one of my things is I would say I haven't got all the answers and no one has, but now I know that, let's say a guy says I've got this issue or this challenge, usually I can find someone who might have a better handle on it than I have. So you can reach out to, you know, pretty much 100 different guys around the world who you can cherry pick. Who do you think might have, you know, is it spiritual, is it fitness, is it health, is it mindset? Is it something else? So yeah, the podcast been good, but it sure does explode your network as well.

Is the 5:30am start is that your self imposed routine or is that just the kids getting up at that time?

Yeah, it's, it's, it was born from, you know, years in the city because I had to be in at seven o'. Clock. Well actually I had to be in at 6:45. And I happily admit when I first went for my interview in the city working on the European desk, I didn't realize that. I thought you started at 8, not 7. But I'd forgotten about the hours.

Oh yeah.

So I sat in the interview and the woman said, oh, what you like with getting in early? And I was like, yeah, fine, no problem at all. And then she said, I said what kind of time do you get in? And she said, I get in about half past six. And I was thinking what a loser getting in an hour and a half before the markets open. Yeah, and then during the interview the, you know, the, the light bulb went on and I was like, shit, like we have to be in at 7. So that meant for 10 years plus my alarm went off at half 5 every day whether you liked it or not. You know, some nights you had only just got into bed after being out with clients and your alarm went off and there was no, you know, there was no working from home, there was no flexi time. All that stuff. That was a you are at your desk or if you're not and you're late, you buy everybody breakfast, which is going to be expensive if you arrived after quarter past seven. Well, between seven and quarter past you bought everybody breakfast. So that was probably going to cost you. It depends how big your desk was. But you know, some desks were had 12 or 14 guys on. So do 12 or 14 times. You know, X breakfast is expensive. When I worked on one of the other desks, if it was after quarter past seven, you bought everybody lunch. Now we know lunch has become really expensive and we'd get kind of lobster linguini from Leadenhall Market. There was someone that did the, it was £20 a serving. So even if there's only 60 on the desk times £20, that was a painful, expensive lay in. So yeah, that's where it was, you know, it came from. But I've struggled more with getting up when we had the kids because our first one didn't sleep properly for a whole year. Our second one, who is now two and a half still doesn't, has never slept properly.

My 7 year old's just started sleeping sort of. Yeah, yeah.

So you can, you know, I, I, I would say that I'm thankfully, I've had a strong routine but I developed the owner like our own kind of morning routine concept called the one day reset. Which is what I do for companies, like talking to them kind of in the corporate field. And one of the big things there is you can have all these great strategies and tools, but you know, if something throws a spanner in the works in the middle of the night, you wake up and you're like, I just can't, you know, what can I do with the simple, simple things this morning? Which is why it's the one day reset. Because you know, if you cock it up yesterday, it's not like, oh, just won't bother with this anymore. It's like, okay, let's reset again on Tuesday. What can I do for my morning routine? So yeah, that's been kind of golden for me just to have that in the back of my mind to know, you know, the things are moved, breathe, think and drink. So in the morning, can you do a little bit of movement even if a few minutes, you know, breathing is your breath work, thinking is, what have you got to do that day? And drink being, you know, your first thing in the morning isn't coffee, it is apple cider vinegar. It is warm water with lemon, it is just pure water. Um, and just implementing those four things kind of changed the trajectory of my progress during the day.

Yeah, it has to be quite light, doesn't it? Because a routine can be something that gives you structure and handrails, but can also be quite kind of crippling if it's, if it's like say life changes and you don't want to be too stuck to it because it can cause you a lot of stress on the home front as well, if you're like, I've got to do an hour workout this morning. And they're like, well, there's a baby crying here. It's not realistic.

Yeah, well, that was the. I talked about this a couple of weeks ago on one of the podcasts. There was a great book written by a guy called Hal Elrod, which is the Miracle Morning, which I bought, thought was great, gave me some really good ideas. But I think there was seven kind of things he suggests you do. And I found that I was then failing. So I was getting about three or four of them done and then just things were getting in the way. And it was a bit like the film. There's something about Mary when the guy makes the in. Is it seven Minute Abs?

Oh, yeah, yeah. The serial killer.

The serial killer. Seven Minute Abs. And I remember thinking, well, this guy's giving me seven things to do. But if I had to drop a few of them out, what would they be? And how could I implement that? And so I kind of went from the, you know, the miracle morning seven steps to what are the four that I could implement and kind of mold around for a guy? How could they use that in the morning?

Yeah, how, yeah, how important has that been? Just the evolution of speaking to people and sort of stealing little bits here and there that suit you. Because I was always key to that. You'd hear this sort of, oh, 5:00am Starts a brilliant. But it's like, well, if I'm going to bed at 2 or 3, I mean, there's no point me getting up at 5:00am, I'm going to be an absolute for the rest of the day. We know how important sleep is.

So it's the, it's the allowing yourself flexibility. Because just like you say, you know, everybody has, you know, for some people got kids, other people have got different working hours. So with the talks I do, that's one of the big things you impart, is that there is no one way. Because, you know, you and I have. Because you've got a different schedule. To me, I generally, I mean, bed at 10, quarter past 10, nearly every.

Night now you're getting the rest you need.

Yeah, that's it. So it's easy for me to get up at half past five or even if you got up at six, like, I've still had my, you know, between kind of six and a half, seven half hours sleep. Yeah. If I had a job where I was getting home late and you have to eat late and then you shouldn't go to bed just after You've eaten because your body will, you know. Good example of that. A few weeks ago we had a. We had some sunshine. Amazing. And we were testing out our new egg barbecue thing and being greedy, I finished off, you know, any. The meat that the kids hadn't eaten. I had that. So I ate loads and really late and that night I laid in bed and you know, you're. You're obviously body's working hard to break down all the meat that you've had.

Yeah.

And I had a terrible night's sleep. I was boiling hot because you've eaten late. So yeah, it's. It's adding flexibility and is probably one of the most important things. Otherwise you just set yourself up for failure.

Yeah. I found with shift work actually over the last year or so, even though you can't necessarily control every night the time you go into bed. Now I'm doing lates and one day shift actually I can generally have two hour, two and a half hour variation of when I go to bed. So I tend to go to bed midnight on a night off and then one or two on a night I'm working. So it's not too different. But actually researching and putting it in layman's terms from what I understand from the scientists, is that there are different aspects of our physiology. Have a body clock as well, a circadian rhythm and actually trying to replicate, keep that consistent. So I'll try and eat at 6 or 7, my main meal in the evening and just balance that. I actually do find that when I do sleep it's better. Even though when you come home at midnight there's always a temptation to have some cheese or whatever it is and red wine and watch TV. But then you'd be up till 4 in the morning, so that was a bad call. But yeah, just trying to kind of keep other things regulated. If the sleep, which we know is a foundational element, but it's other things keep. That does help if they're. If they're sort of regular and eating seems to be a big one for.

Your body, the environment as well. And that's one of the big things. It was back in where are we now? 2022. It was midway through 2021, we released our first kind of online course for men. And it had taken us ages because we'd kind of tasked certain people that were in the team with writing an online course for men and kind of setting out some good examples of what they should be kind of producing. And it never quite happened. And in the end I realized I Should have just done it myself because I knew, you know, I had all the basic kind of skills to lay out for people. And it was all about giving a guy more energy to do all the important things he needs to do in life. But one of those was, yeah, that morning routine. And about, you know, sometimes the night before, if you were going to the gym, setting your gym kit out, you know, maybe you've prepped your breakfast the night before, maybe you've just done a few things, it might take you five minutes. But the preparation the night before meant that it made your morning routine, you know, easier to kind of accomplish. And I remember we released the course and the first time, like, someone bought it, I was like, oh, this is cool. And then it was just nice to get bits of feedback, whereas guys would just say, I found that really helpful. And now I get up with more energy, more focus and more clarity. And you're like, how much is that worth? You know, it's just how much, how.

Important is it to give ourselves time whenever we wake up? Because I find that I get quite ratty if I suddenly. Because I get up at nine, half nine. Suddenly the world wants you to be on call, but actually you need an hour just to get your head. Because you become a better person after about an hour of just, just waking up and not looking at phones, not looking at, not trying to organize anything or do something that someone else is doing at 9 o' clock because they've been up since half past six, 7 o'. Clock.

Yeah, that, the phones thing. And I know again, we talk about it on the whole Man Academy podcast a lot because it is such a big part of our lives and most of us are, you know, are coming out of the statistics. But, you know, most of us are never more than a few, a few feet away from our phones. I was reading interesting one about, you know, people can't be bothered. I can never be bothered to look at instructions. I'm just like, just give me, you know, when I used to get my Commodore 64, your Nintendo, just plug it in and let's go. My dad would be like, no, no, let's. Let's look at the instructions. No, just let's go. And I know when you look at the iPhone instructions or the warnings, it says, don't hold your phone close to your ear.

Really?

And the point there is that the, you know, the WI fi and everything is to state, yours is not going to be good for you. And it's certainly not, not good for you at all. Because of course You've got this constant WI fi surrounding us and so many people are now, and I found it become kind of addicted to their phones. Yeah, they take the bed, they, you know, they sleep with them. Right.

The alarm clock and.

Yeah, that's it. And one of the things we say in the course is about turning your WI fi off overnight, you know, and.

It'S easier on your phone or just in the actual.

In the house if you can completely.

Yeah.

And putting your phone on airplane mode as well. Because when you think it's just there, or some people have it where they plug their phone in to charge it up overnight and they have it on their bedside table. There's some really interesting videos where trying to think what the machine is. That's the kind of the size of a dry shaver, but it can measure the, you know, the output of light energy coming off of the. Of a device. And you'll see someone get their phone and when they plug it in, the thing goes. Because it is producing a lot more kind of, you know, the signal. And of course, people are sleeping with them right by their heads. And you're like, even if you had no scientific knowledge, you just say, do you think that would be beneficial or detrimental to your health? You know, without having to read the science spelled with a dollar sign instead of an S these days, you know, do you think that's going to be helpful? So it's all those little things we try and implement with guys through mentorship or our online course just to do the little 1 percenters that can make a big difference. Yes.

Having those. Yeah, those conversations. It's quite interesting. We're talking the day went out for a beer with a guy who's in his early 30s, and the guy's a couple years older than me, I think 43 or so. But we were talking about how actually reflecting about smartphones and actually agreeing because I've had some issues with one of my tires on my car. It's had some sort of problem with the alloy and it's been a slow puncture effectively. So I've been stopping at one in the morning to fill up my air and stuff and all this. And I said the best thing about the phone is actually the torch, isn't it? And they were saying, yeah, they're actually agreeing. That is, you know, all the fluff and all the talk about apps and stuff, actually having a practical thing that when it's dark, there's a good torch on this phone. And it's because I think there is a debate to be had that some of the modern life isn't actually conducive to more productivity. And, you know, it's scary, isn't it, that addictive thing. I think it's snuck in that you just like a Pavlov, Pavlovian dog, you look at your phone and you think, and suddenly you'd catch yourself like, why was I looking at that phone? I don't even know what I achieved with looking at the phone at that time. And I don't even remember what it was doing in that instance.

But it, and it's also, it's so. I mean, you have to take your, your, your hat off to the people that design it. It is so good for, you know, my opinion. And again, if you think with a hundred podcasts, you know, a good percentage of those guys, as we talked about phones or the guys that read our Holman Academy letter and then kind of email me back and dialogue, but I always say they're so good at. I could finish this kind of interview now and I'll be like, right, I need to message Ed or I need to check his Instagram and I'll go on it. So I know exactly why I'm going on it. But like you say, and then a few minutes later you're like, how am I? How have I gone? How am I here? Yeah, like, what am I looking at? And I've, you know, downloaded something or I've looked at someone's profile. Have you? Like, right, no. What was I doing again? And it's so good at showing you. I mean, as we know with the algorithms, it knows exactly what you like. You know, when it should. When it should remind you, when it should send you notifications if you haven't looked recently, which is kind of scary, to be honest. So the two weeks ago, we're home educating our kids, as I might have said before on the podcast, but I took our boys off to their kind of forest school and I left my phone in the car, so I didn't look at my phone. I looked at it once because I was waiting for an email, but I had about six, seven, I think, hours of not even having my phone. And it was so good.

Brain feels better, doesn't it? Yeah, it's like it just comes because you're in constant communication. I think that's the difficulty now, isn't it? So many platforms, as you say, so many direct messages, so many. I mean, WhatsApp for me, I find absolutely terrifying. Like, you look at it in the morning, there's like 100 messages. Because it's sort of like a. It's almost. It goads people into just sort of stream of consciousness communication where, you know, I don't know what it is. Even the standard text message, you don't have the same sort of cut and thrust. Whereas on a WhatsApp group it's like, yeah, and I said this and then I did that and then they've seen this news and it's like, whoa, I can't. But this isn't helping me. I'm consuming loads of texts. I don't feel more connected to people necessarily.

It's.

Yes, you know, in person's best. And then a phone call and then something like this is next best. And then.

Yeah, one of the. You said about WhatsApp, the. Here's one of the differentiations between let's say a text message and WhatsApp. On a text, you know, on WhatsApp, when it comes up and says that Ed's online.

Yeah.

So you've read my message and he's online and he's ignoring me.

Yeah.

Why is he.

Just want to leave the phone like you say, just leave the phone. So no one knows what you're doing. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So I found myself. I'd see a message on the preview come up and then I would think, I'm not logging on now because they'll see I'm online and I haven't, I can't, I haven't got time to reply to their message. One of the. This is months ago, but one of the tips I gave guys one of our events was be okay with like leaving groups because. And that could be Facebook groups as well as WhatsApp groups and etc. I left a. My, like Emma's family side WhatsApp group because I was like, they're lovely people, but it's load of bollocks that they're like, it's just backwards and forwards with just stuff. And like you say in the morning you'd be like, we've got like 75 messages and it's no relevance to me at all. So I was like, you know, love you all, bye. And just get rid like, wow. And Facebook groups.

Yeah, it's like it's like anything, isn't it? It's like sleep, like exercise. There's a curve of an optimum amount. And you know, you could. If you're exercising 10 hours a day, you're probably going to break down and get, and get ill. And similarly if you're, if you're on every platform, multi Connected on Facebook, Instagram, WhatsApp, all these things effectively, they're just messaging. It's trying to crystallize those communications, I suppose. And I quite old fashioned that we organize this on email. And actually I remember there being a sweet spot where you'd have a laptop and you'd email people and you felt really connected but you weren't always connected, which is, which is quite nice. I think it's important for your brain to like say, come up with ideas, be creative, to switch off, be connected with people you're with as well. That's a big thing, isn't it, having kids. They're always remonstrating with you about looking at your phone and things.

Well that, that's two things. I know. I talked about it on the podcast last week. There was a good example of, you know, I find myself looking at my phone when I've got the kids as well and my partner will be like, put your phone down. And I'm like, yeah. And I'm not mindlessly scrolling because I use my phone for work as well. So when you're working from home, that's the problem is you're never in the office and then out the office you're kind of, there's that blurred lines. But I was sharing that I take the boys to football on a Saturday morning. Little kickers, which is, which is great, but it pains me to see. I join in with the kids and they're all, you know, we're all playing football and we're having, having fun and like there's so many mums and dads are just sitting against the wall with their phone just scrolling. And you're like, right, I bet if you stopped them all and said, listen, what are you actually doing? You might have one that might be having to reply to someone through work, but let's be honest, the likelihood is that 9 out of 10 people are just scrolling or you know, just mindlessly. Yeah, yeah, that's it. And it was funny because one of the dads was sitting behind the goal and the kids especially, they're only four years old, so the balls are going everywhere. He was sitting behind the goal, scrolling whilst the kids were taking penalties. And of course the kid, one of the kids hit the ball and it flew over and hit him in the head. And I was like, that's someone up there going, yeah, try and pay attention to what's going on instead of just scrolling.

Yeah, not having it with you. There's a, there's a sort of a, a problem of practicality. As well, isn't it? And probably put on airplane mode would achieve this. But if you're taking photographs and video family moments with your phone, the difficulty is then, like you say, it's very skilled at having an alert come up that says they've got an email or a message. Then you look at that, then you're taken away. So sometimes the old school approaches of having your own camera or I said the other day I put something on Twitter and it got quite a lot of traction in terms of people that interact with me. Said I go on a Wednesday morning and have an omelette and read a newspaper, buy a physical newspaper and actually do it because I feel really immersed in it. I can remember what I've read. Whereas if I'm fitting between sports media online and stuff, and I'm Also then getting WhatsApp messages or whatever else, your thread of focus is so broken up, it's unbelievable.

That's the. I was reading something about ebooks the other day only because we want to develop. There's two different kind of books that we want to write for the whole man academy. One on morning routine and one all about the what we've learned from the podcast and the hundred plus podcasts. But when I was reading, it was like there was that massive rise of ebooks because they were so easy. But actually there was an interesting amount of people that now, even for me, I quite like holding onto a book. Yes, it's to transport it and what have you. But you know, generally to have a book, especially with our kids, and we like bookmark it and he scribbles on it and he, you know, you know, puts his Post it notes. When it's all digital, the fun kind of has gone out of it. It's a bit like when, you know, when they, when they take money away from cash, away from people, soon, you know, gone are those and which in my view people should fight against as much as possible because once it's gone digital, you know, there is no cash. There is no fun of you getting a birthday card and there's 20 quid.

In it or it's too scary as well digital because you realize it's so painless, isn't it? That's the problem with financially. You can end up spending hundreds of pounds without thinking about it.

Yeah. Because you just beep and it's. And it's gone. So, yeah, that's one of the things I read a book about. We weren't even living here. So that's over five years ago. And this Guy called Jim Rickards, who's a kind of fun, speaks a lot about the financial markets and he'd written there very much about like the death of cash and how they will deliberately, you know, slowly filter out cash and what the problem a cashless society will have. But like I say, even just with your kids, just having them understand the value of money by they've got a pound and they can buy this. That's the little basic stuff that just gets kind of gets kids started and understanding how money works.

Absolutely. Yeah. You'd know on a weekend how much money, what you could afford. And then it put into perspective what your parents were paying for certain things and. Yeah, that's a really good, a really good point, isn't it? And you were talking about on the Dystopian Outlook as well. You were talking on the email about food shortages. What have you learned about that sort of position situation?

Yeah, I mean that's, we wrote about it about two weeks ago on the whole man Academy letter again. And that goes out to hundreds of guys around the world. So it's interesting. I love getting replies back because you'll, you know, can you have a guy from India, a guy from Uzbekistan, a guy from Canada, a guy from wherever. So you get some interesting insights. But funny, I was talking to one of our local farmers as well at the weekend. We were picking up a load of meat that we'd ordered and discussing it. And what you're seeing is that supply chains and have been for a year, year and a half at least are slowly kind of being broken down for various reasons around the world. And there's a great guy called the Ice Age farmer, so he's called Christian, but he's on YouTube as the ice Age farmer. And probably for a year and a half he just does great research on what's happened in all these different countries and the kind of snowball effect of all these supply brains, supply chains breaking down. What I love is, and you know that the joys of the media and especially like the newspapers with promoting fear, you know, it's not, it's not, it's not new, is it? So no, they do that gets attention, doesn't it?

I think that's how our brains are wired that way.

Yeah, yeah, it's a, it's a clickbait type thing. But it's so funny in the news where they say, oh, the food shortage will happen because of what's going on in Ukraine at the moment. Well, that will have a small effect on it because Ukraine is a Massive one of grains. And obviously there's food supply chains, but this stuff has been happening for like a year and a half, two years, so it's easy to look at customer service. Everybody blame crap customer service on Covid. And you're like, no, no, like at some point you've got to admit that, you know, you're just crap with your customer service.

Yeah, yeah. The lowering of standards across the board is. Yeah.

And just go, yes, it's Ukraine or it's Covid. You're like, well, it's not, is it? That's an excuse. So, you know, what I think we'll see in the next six months is similar to what happened. Think back to 2020 with the toilet roll situation. Now, the toilet roll situation, it didn't really matter whether there was or wasn't or even the petrol we had recently. Now, it wasn't that we didn't have any, it's that the, the media showed people that there was going to be a shortage and whether you, like, everybody ran out and got some, which created a bit of a supply issue. And then, you know, so. But the interesting thing with those is they were short term, you know, a week later with the petrol, you went back to the pump and you're like, no, there's no queues, there's nothing here. And the same with toilet roll. You know, within a week they'd filled those up. But from. If you do your research, you'll see that, you know, you've got farmers who are being encouraged to just retire and being offered cash lump sums instead of selling their farms on or, you know, continuing to farm the land, which.

In the uk. In the uk, yeah, yeah.

I mean, it's been widely reported in the press and so that's one problem, if you know what I mean, even over here. But you're going to see some interesting.

Why are they encouraged to do that, then? Because it's cheaper to import. Has been a cheaper.

It depends how far down the rabbit hole you want to go with it. But what it does do is it creates a shortage of food. And unfortunately, you know, if you control people's food, you can control people, if you want to look at it that way. So that's why our local farmer, you know, even in Cheltenham, you know, just outside, you can find lots of different farms around. And it's very interesting talking to the people that have got kind of boots on the ground as opposed to just reading, you know, a magazine that tells you, I love kind of getting in and actually having a conversation. But what we said was compared to the petrol issue which is very short lived and the toilet roll issue which short lived. This I would predict will not be a short lived food issue.

And this is fundamental food like meats and vegetables. It's not talking about avocados or I.

Think all of it because you can't get, I mean at the moment some of the ports have got ships. When I went out to Singapore, trying to think how long ago. It's amazing view as you drive from Singapore into downtown on the left hand side, you, you see all the tankers out there being moored now at the moment in different places around the world. You've got huge issues where there when lockdowns were happening it was some ridiculous restrictions that were stopping people bring, you know, bringing on the produce onto land and actually kind of, you know, getting it on the dock. And that seems to have got worse and worse. So I would, I would suggest, and I laugh because I did a talk a year and a half ago for a big, big company in London and at the end that was just during lockdown number one and, and they said, oh, what do you, I love questions. What do you see coming? The future. And I said, well firstly I said assume that there'll be a second lockdown and if there is, how can you make life a bit easier for yourself? And then the last thing I said, and this is a year and a half ago, was start growing your own vegetables. Because even then I could see that this was going to snowball into something.

So it's a practical response as well to the anxiety, isn't it? Because as you're saying, in a sense we're doing what the media is, we're talking about something that's, that's sort of worrying and concerning but you can control something, an aspect to that which if you've got the space like we don't. But actually my father has I think 2 acre, 3 acre allotment now which he.

Excellent.

He's growing vegetables naturally. You know, notwithstanding the fact that when you actually think about it does save us money when he gives us a load of vegetables even though it tends to be an avalanche of the same vegetable. Yes, of course.

What's in Caesar? 300 apples.

Yeah, yeah. And here's loads of squash that have just multiplied. They got everyone but it's still. Yeah, it saves you money but it's actually, I think for him tremendously rewarding to do that. Positive response to the situation.

Well, you've just said something interesting there about allotments because that was A dying art. And I think I would predict in the next year you're going to see allotments are hugely valuable. I mean, not just, oh, it's nice to grow some veg. I mean, I've got some food to eat. Yeah, that is, that is one side of it. But also we spoke to someone, one of the ladies who we know through home educating and she was saying about in her country before she. I think it was, I think it was either Poland or Romania. I think it was Romania. She said, so many of the women out there, it's, it's just part of life that you grow things. You can things you, you know, you have things in jars, you pickle things. Etc. But she said when she came over here, hardly anybody does it and I've said it. That's because it's so easy, isn't it? You press a button, things get delivered and people moan if their shopping isn't in the hours slot that they, you know, and we've done it or you haven't got a substitution. But what I would hope is this will push people, force people to say, you know what, we need to learn how to be a bit more, you know, self sustainable with our food and eat what is seasonal as opposed to, I mean, we've both said it. You said avocados, you know, you'd be like, go to the shop and it'll be December, there's no avocados. This is ridiculous. Where's the manager?

Yeah, where do they know where they come from or what?

You know, that's it. Yeah, so it will be interesting. Also, you said this is one of the common factors, people say, oh, I haven't got the space. And you say, well, actually educating yourself on, you don't need a lot of space to grow certain things because you think upwards instead of outwards. And you know, we shared links on a whole Man Academy thing, trying to put a toolkit together for men to know, you know, not having much space isn't going to be a excuse that will be, it's just inconvenient. But you will find if you've got any small garden that you can start growing things. So it'd be interesting, but I'd love to say I'll be wrong, but I will bet my bottom dollar on in this next year you'll see people going, that's weird, there's not as much stuff.

On the shelves and would that be bad for us? It's interesting, isn't it? I think in a sense a little bit of struggle. I Wonder we've had this compulsion the last hundred years to move closer and closer to convenience. And online shopping, I think is a bit of a false perception with that because the thought of having to negotiate packaging and send stuff back and all that kind of. Of palaver. I'd much rather walk to a store and still, while I still can and try a pair of jeans on. Although, and I'm lucky because I live near the center of town in Shelton, it's a bit more convenient for me, but it's still that for me is easier, I think, than doing online shopping. So there's a false perception, but I do think maybe a recognition of what is important, that is food, shelter, things like that, that we used to create, I think a happiness around that, whereas that became taken for granted and we had all these abstractions to concepts like how shiny your car is and how new your car, how big your, you know, whatever is and what street you live on and stuff like that. I think maybe the more convenient we've. More comfortable life is sometimes the, the unhappier. I don't know. Well, for men, maybe in particular, maybe it's different for women. I don't know.

No, I think, you know, you've just said the other thing there about seeing as obviously the whole man academy being predominantly men that we talk to. But again, 25% of our podcast list is a female or 27% women are interesting women.

Like, it doesn't really work the other way around that men don't crave female sort of quote unquote content, but often women, I think, because it's a struggle to understand how simple men are, that I think it's illuminating. Like, oh, it's, you know, a man could be happy and I'm a very simple man. But like food, shelter, bit of movement, you know, there's very simple things. I don't really have a complex range, which you try and get more complex as you, as you get married and have a wife and a daughter. But it's still very. But women are quite curious about that.

Like understanding that you're 100% right. Then I'll tell you this brief story. I was asked a few weeks ago, there was a. It's like a whole man academy, but a women's version which is. And it seems to be more kind of mature women, I would say women in their like 35, 40s and upwards. But they were doing a big event up near Stratford and they messaged me and said, we're doing a panel for, for men and it will Be so women in the room. But we want three or four men to basically come on stage and just answer any questions that women want to ask you so they can understand men better. And I was like, okay, great. So I went up there and there was say something probably like 40 women in the room.

Yeah. And it's also hard to generalize as well because you're thinking, oh, I know this bloke is different than me. But yes, there are generalizations I think you can, you can strive for. Yeah, yeah.

And that, that was exactly it. Where you go, there was a guy who was 60, a guy who was 50, I'm 40 and guy around my age and you know, one of them has got grown up kids. One of them I don't think has got kids. And we did. So it was a, it was a nice mixture of, of guys from, let's say 40 and upwards. But wow, it was amazing because they let all the women submit questions and you know, anything they wanted and they would say, right, can you just give us with an unfiltered answer? Just don't think, oh no, I better not say that because you know, they might just like just say what you have in your mind, which is always interesting. And questions like, I mean, the first question was, what's the big deal with oral sex?

Yeah, really?

And you're like, right, you know, at least, at least let's warm up a bit before we jump into things.

What, receiving it or giving it?

And that's what the guy said. Well, could you be a bit more specific? And I, you know, we didn't all answer all the questions, but I kind of got that question then put onto me after him. And I was like, well, look, he's answered it well. I said, but, you know, done well, it's amazing and done badly, it's really, it's not a pleasant experience. And the women were kind of laughing.

But one of the questions, sex being a very different thing for men and women, I think that gets more and more. So they want biological necessity versus a sort of enjoyment which is crude, but it's. Yeah. Equates to a lot of things is.

That, you know, that's it. One of their things was about, I mean, they asked about if you like, if a man was happy with his partner earning more than him. Which is an interesting one because I wouldn't mind, but maybe when I was younger I probably might have been a bit put out by that because you're like, I, you know, in my head I should be the, the breadwinner and they're earning a lot more than me. So that was an interesting.

I think it would depend if you were any good at caring, but my wife's better carer than me, so I think if she would be like, well, that's a bit embarrassing.

So it came back to that where one of the really interesting questions was one of the women said, can you. Can a man ever really have, like, platonic relationship with his female friends? And of course, one of the guys who was very said, oh, of course. And. Etc. And I was like, if you really want to be honest. I said the reason I was friends with my girlfriends earlier was probably because I wanted to sleep with them. You know, that was. And they. And they were like, God, like, it's such good to hear your honesty. And I was like, well, that's just. That's, you know, I'm not saying all men are like that, but seeing as you wanted some unfiltered stuff. So that was really. I'd say it was lovely. At the end, the woman stood up and she basically burst into tears and she said, I'm not saying what, but she said, some of your content today is actually. I feel like it's healed some of my wounds of things that I've always needed to hear about men.

Wow.

And I was like, wow, powerful stuff.

Yeah, I know.

It's good for him to talk.

The readiness to cry. Yeah. And that's actually the millennial wedding. My brother was in tears the whole time we made a crack because one of my brothers had testicular cancer. He's on testosterone now. So he was. I was saying, could you give my. Could you give him the. Some of that testosterone? Because he's wedding was. It's just, you know, in tears the whole time. My mum and I was like, wow, I do sort of get teary when I hear about kids dying or something. It's like not. But it's a different, different. It was a slight, seemingly a change in some of the emotionality of men.

Yeah.

We used to think. Or a bad thing. I know. I don't know. It's because stoicism sometimes I think is a. Is a decent trait as well, isn't it?

Yes. And that's our previous podcast guest, Michael, out in Canada. You know, he'd said. And I hadn't thought about it like this, but he said, you know, you. In his view, he said, you shouldn't be going to your female partner with all your little woes. You should find a group of men or a man that you can have these discussions with, because if you're going to your partner and you know, saying, oh, this, I'm not working, I'm just about this. He said, in a way, she'll then feel like she has to step into her masculine and out of her feminine to try and kind of counter that and help you and deal with it. And he said, you know, whereas if you can find your group of men and, you know, I know with you, if you want to, you could reach out to me and say anything. And James Gordon.

And I think it's different as well, because I think, and this is probably part of the mental health culture, which is a little bit limiting. I was having a conversation for men is this talk in itself, which is bizarre because we're talking on a podcast and you do a lot of talking, which is supposed to be healing. But I think what men want is someone to say, not. You won't necessarily follow it, but it'll be, try doing this, try doing that. Whereas with women, there's a sense that they just talk about the same thing over and over again. And you're like, no one's doing anything. What are you doing? There's no, there's no clarity. No one's written anything down about what the next tactic is. It's sort of like, but that is a part of the mainstream mental health culture now, is that that in itself is fulfilling. And maybe it is sometimes if you're really depressed, I guess, to hear something, but actually what is better is my father in law saying, you know, you've messed up this bit of diy, here's what you should do. And actually I'll feel less stressed because he's told me that, or this is what happened to me at work and this is how I handled my boss and things like that, which is, you know, I think my wife's actually very practical on that side. But it's interesting that I think that's sometimes a gender divide where you actually just want someone to tell you what to do or give you options.

And I know, you know, we've heard it from plenty of kind of. I've listened to a couple of kind of relationship experts where they would say, you know, in general that men want to fix things and women just want to talk about it. And, you know, it's what I realize, even with my partner, and we talk about it with the whole man academy, is sometimes your partner just wants to. To offload what's going on. She doesn't want you to go, right, let's get a pen and paper, let's get a. Yeah, let's get six step plan going on.

It escalates into a terrible situation. You're like, what about this? What about this? And what like, particularly within to family relationships. It's like, you know, ultimately they just want to air stuff, I think.

Yeah, well that's the. Goes into the victim triangle as well, isn't it? Is you try and you know someone's got a problem, they tell you about it and then kind of you go around and think, oh, I'll try and fix it for them. And they don't want you to fix it for them. So they have a go at you and you're like, well, don't have a gut at me. I'm just trying to fix it for you.

It's almost like you say to her, like, if I have a problem with a family, it's like, what should I do? What should I say? How should I act when I'm there? And it's almost like this is something I can rehearse and practice, whereas for my wife it's just literally venting something that I don't need to solve or give her a tactic for. It's a different, different thing and it's subtle and again, it will vary across different men and women. But I think there are broad strands of how you miscommunicate. Because I remember someone said to me, for God's sake, don't try and tell her what to do or fix. It's like that's the last thing you can do is tell someone what to do.

That it reminded me there's if someone said, now I had to kind of offer two bits of relationship advice to men or women, you know, because it's always good, as you say, for women to hear men's thoughts. One of them was saying to your partner, what I'm hearing you say is this. So that. Because they'll go, no, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying something else, you know. Okay, sorry, just to clarify, so I don't get it wrong, what I'm hearing you say is blah. But the other one was an American, he's an ex police detective over in the States called Craig Casaletto who I interviewed a few weeks ago. And he does great, like quick tips on Instagram for people and kind of men on how to, how to do life better. But his thing was if you imagine, if you said each morning or it hasn't got me every morning, but you say to your partner, how can I make your day a 10?

I think she's probably laughing if I said that out of the blue. But yeah, yeah.

Because I'd be like, where's Ed and what have you done with him?

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

But yeah, he was like, you know, because often people are so busy, kind of, they think, you know what your partner wants or could be a colleague or whatever. But imagine saying what might come up if you said to your partner on a weekend, listen, what can I do to make your day a ten? It might be. When I spoke to Emma, my partner, she's like, just empty the dishwasher and if you could just make lunch. That's all I'm asking. And I was like, okay, I can do that.

Yeah.

And she's like, that'll do for me.

Yeah. Don't have to change the washer on the plug, which is always a challenge. Or the tap, which is. That's a good. That's a really good shout, actually. Not airing problems, I think, because I think it actually be quite emasculating, can't it? Because you feel like you have to air it. But if you're not seeing male friends enough, you don't have that avenue to do that. Then you tell your wife. And I think whether they like to say it or not, and whether people say they want people to share problems, I think actually a woman tends to want you just to deal with it and get on with it, you know?

Yeah, nice. That's why I say with podcasts, which I love. You know, I've always said podcasts saved my life because I might have stayed in the city if I hadn't of listened to podcasts, which got me onto Tony Robbins and personal development and et cetera, et cetera. But, you know, with the 100 plus podcasts, like, I selfishly, I learned so much from the guys I interview as much as the people listening. And that's why I said, if with a hundred guys, you took one golden nugget from every podcast, that's a book in itself. You know, 100 golden nuggets from the whole man academy Podcast is an ebook waiting to happen.

And what about the homeschooling? How have you found that the balance between trying to work, trying to provide, trying to educate, trying to care.

Yes, good. Good question. It's. It's not without its challenges. And that's because obviously you're always, you know, one of us is always with the kids and. But I say that you learn to adapt because. So our kids will go on a Monday to meet with a big group and go to somewhere to do something like. Could be blended palace or go somewhere. Tuesdays they go to forest school where they're building fires and, you know, doing bow and arrow stuff and learning about animals and trees and woodlands. Wednesdays they go to someone and again, a big group and she's a music teacher, so she teaches them about kind of spirituality and music and nature and etc. And then Thursdays one of us goes. One of them goes to one of our family members and he helps them do gardening and different stuff like that. And then Friday it's kind of a free for all of whatever they want to do.

Yeah.

But the biggest challenge wasn't so much them or us, it was the helping people around. You understand about homeschooling or home educating because you're not trying to recreate school at home.

Yeah.

The whole point isn't having a. You sit down for every.

Yeah, yeah, that's it.

So, you know, people often ask about, oh, how are they socialized?

It's almost like sprint training, homeschooling, isn't it? Because it's one or two. Whereas, you know, in a general class it's like a marathon because you've got 30 kids and the attention is sprint split. But you can't give the same intense attention to one person for six hours.

Yeah. And look at. But great example even, you know, for anybody listening. Look at when you went to school, assuming you went to school. I bet there's some things you couldn't stand. I didn't like science. I thought I was really boring. Whereas when it was media or PE or something like that, and I was.

Unsurprisingly, I was kind of crafts is my worst making.

Yeah.

So.

So when you're forcing a child to learn stuff that he's got no or she's got no interest in. So for Hudson, you know, he loves woodwork and he loves that. So he's learning to count through measuring and building and. But if you say, oh, we're going to sit down and do, to be honest, a lot of other stuff. He's. His attention span is so short, then he starts messing around because he's bored.

Yeah.

And you're like, why am I forcing my child to. You know, especially when you force the curriculum of. You've also got to ask yourself, who developed a curriculum? Is it to develop young entrepreneurs and young warriors as men, or is it to develop people that can be good worker bees and go out and work for someone else? I think you know the answer that one.

Factory. Factory sort of age. Wasn't it Victorian Age, that's it.

And I have to be careful sometimes because everybody makes their own decision. We're lucky we're in that situation where we can home educate our kids. Not everybody is. And especially if you're a single parent, guess what, you've got to go out and earn money. So it's an interesting one, but with the socializing of children, you take a class of 20 or 34 year olds, they're not going to learn from each other, whereas they will spend time with, you know, two and a half, 4, 7, 9, 12, 13, 14 year olds and the 14 year olds learn how to nurture the youngsters and the youngsters learn from the bigger kids who they want to emulate and that's how they learn from each other. So it's, it's, it's funny watching people's. What's the word reaction when you say, when they say oh, you know, how's your son getting on at school? And I say oh, he, he's not going to school. And they go what? Home educating? And they're like why? How, why?

Yeah.

And you're like well how long have you got? You know. But it's about working out what's best for your situation and your child.

Yeah, it's interesting about that intergenerational connection between kids, between teenagers and young kids because that would have been sort of, I guess just natural part of the process in communities when we lived in tribes and things like that. And a lot of it, what we're doing now with exercise and trying to get sleep again and things like that, it's fundamental things that we used to do very much intuitively and instinctively. But in modern life we've had to unravel it and rent an allotment or do whatever we need to do to get to feel closer to nature when previously were in it. We're really weird, a really weird species when it, when it comes to it. And you've got, you've got a getaway coming up with the whole man academy as well. Because that's another thing for the. Both the people going and yourself is negotiating that time away from families and an interesting balance, isn't it? And that balance between sort of self care and narcissism, if it goes too far one way does it?

Yeah. Over love trying to find that balance. I mean we, what we wanted to do with the whole man academy was, you know, everybody's got different needs, different budgets, different desires on how they want to kind of, you know, sculpt their life and you know, we Started off with just the events, which were all very good, but of course you could only have, you know, 30 men there maybe, or 65 men was the biggest event we did. But of course a guy's got to be able to get to the event, you know, get maybe permission from his partner because maybe he's. But work all week and then he's like, oh, I'm off to this. So we then developed the online course, which meant that could be guys all around the world, which is great. But then we were like, what's our, you know, what's the progress from that? And the next one was then mentoring. So I do kind of private mentoring with guys. We're just about to launch on Friday, another course more about body optimization, like bioconditioning for men and looking at your hormones and testosterone, et cetera, like that. And then the kind of the top of the tree for us was the. We call it the escape and reset experience, which is taking a guy who comes to my home for three days, either the weekend, and you look at his health, his lifestyle, his goals, his fitness, and you. It's like an intense, you know, couple of days where it's just me and him getting, we will say, you know, getting done, but also having some time to walk, to exercise, a bit of cold water immersion and, and maybe the toilet seat up. He can do whatever he wants in that respect.

But it was funny things like that. When you get with your friends, you just realize how savage they are. I mean, a men's public toilet, when you've got a daughter, it's just like, oh, yeah, we're just animals. And it's basically like this ongoing tension between, you know, I think I'm relatively civilized, but it's, it's.

We'd like to think, well, they get their own kind of private room with ensuite and entrance and all that stuff. So it's, it's, it's say it's basically the escape and reset saying you escape from the daily rat race for a couple of days and then come out to the Cotswolds and it is just fields and horses and nice walks and what have you, but also the reset experience of saying, okay, where am I today? I don't care what's gone on in the past, because you can't change that. You know, looking to the future, what can we do? We work a morning routine, you eat all organic food, and you just have that nice experience where you go, do you know what? I'm taking a couple of days for me instead of Trying to juggle the plates of everything else in life.

Yeah. How important is it for us, to a certain extent, solve our problems in a sense? Because I think if you're a practical person, you say, seek out these great podcasts, but then you can sort of find yourself blowing in the wind a bit, can't you? I think there has to be a sort of. Of just entertainment, a filter process, isn't there, where you. Where you decide what works for you and what. And how you're going to. And also a confidence about who you are, I suppose. I mean, that sounds very corny and cliched, but is that one of the conclusions? You've spoken to 100 people on the podcast, but ultimately they've got different perspectives and you have to try and blend them all together to formulate your view.

Yeah, well, you just said confidence. And again, I literally this morning was writing an E letter that will also go out because an additional one about even my own body confidence. Like I said with. When I had my collapsed lung because I lost so much weight, and people go, oh, haven't you got skinny? And I hated. I mean, you know, I'd wager that most men never want to hear them described as skinny or thin, you know.

Yeah. Between skin and skinny and fat is probably a close call, actually, isn't it? It's a hard. Yeah, it's at least been having a good time.

Yeah. Well, at least it's, you know, it's one of those things where it's. It's about how it make, you know, how those words make you feel. But, you know, we were writing on the. On the E Letter again about confidence, not just for you, but it, you know, it kind of resonates around you because, you know, if you doing a job interview and you've got a guy comes in and he's got an air of confidence around him, you want him in your team. But if someone comes in and they haven't, maybe that's the deciding factor. So confidence can, you know, it's like you. If you're going on camera, you want someone next to, you know, feels and sounds confident. I mean, is it. Jim White was the guy who'd been, you know, for so long or, you know, I'm trying to think of some of the other guys that does like Soccer Saturday. But, you know, if you're. Yeah, that's it. If you're sitting next to those guys, you've got the feeling of their confidence there, particularly pundits.

Yeah. You have people come in, come into the studio who aren't there all the time, they have to be. Yeah, very kind of.

What's that like then? Because surely you get those guys, some that are. If they're especially the younger footballers, they're new to being on camera.

Yeah. There's an evolution, particularly on Sky Sports News, because often we're not that we want to see ourselves like that, but you could be, because audience wise Soccer Saturday or the Premier League coverage, you'll get millions of viewers and we'll get hundreds of thousands. So there's a kind of incremental thing where sometimes you lose the best people, but you're nurturing them through. And it's very much, you know, for a lot of these people, sink or swim intellectually have to work out what they're doing. So a lot of it's TV on radio. Radio, yeah, TV or radio on tv. So describing things the viewer can't see. So you have to explain it to them and then you have to make them feel comfortable and then like any, some will thrive and some will maybe stagnate and not be for them. So it's an interesting process, but you have to try and just tease and coax them potentially through it. And that sounds disrespectful, but obviously it's a new environment for them. And being live tv, I think culturally there's a sort of excitement and anxiety sometimes about being in that situation, a bit like public speaking. So you have to be mindful of that. But it's an interesting one, I think, giving feedback as well. I'm not someone that sort of is too judgmental, I think an interesting blend because you've done the personal training courses and I'm doing the level three at the moment. And one of the things they do is a stress questionnaire is you have to give to clients. And it's interesting the sort of what is right and what's wrong. It's about balance because one of the themes in there was do you always feel responsible? Do you think things are your fault? Should you adjust? And I think part of me thinks in a relationship you should always try and do that. But then if you get too far down that road, you become too apologetic and it's too lack. So that is interesting at work, at home, how assured you are, how flexible you are about things, but also how sort of how solid you are at the core. And I think that's an interesting thing, is how you balance all those things because it's not an exact way. You can be like braggadocio and absolute about everything and Your ways to, you know, your way or the highway, and you never learn and get better as a person. But then, yes, I think there is a sense of, like, you have to have a little bit of assurance with a little bit of flexibility, I think.

Funny, you reminded me something I read the other day, which was someone said, you know, that. That the biggest thing we know is that we don't know anything.

Yeah.

You know, the one thing I'm confident about is that I don't know anything. And I would say, you know, for most people, you know, everything we know is wrong. I mean, look at health and how we've been told certain things are really good for you and then certain drugs and then you find out that actually, you know, years later they're like, oh, well, we made loads of money out of it, but we were wrong on that. So I always think it's like, you know, question everything around you as well. But, you know, if you can surround yourself with people who have some confidence, I think it just, it rubs off on you, basically.

Yeah. And you take feedback and you put it through a bit of a filter as well. Because someone might say they might have an ulterior motive. They might, whether it's work or whatever, they might be wrong or they might be right. You know, you have to sort of evaluate that. I think there's a sort of process and always say that to presenters coming through as well, because it's a very fickle, subjective thing. Some people like you, others won't. But if they've got something constructive and tangible, like you're picking your nose every two minutes on camera and it's pretty off putting, then I think that's something you can actually, you know, or swearing. You don't seem to know any facts about rugby. It's like, well, I can research and, you know, there's. There's things that you can actually take and construct it. But if someone says, I just don't like the way you look, it's like, well, there's not. There's not much you can do with that. Which sometimes you get bosses who would be kind of pretty much candid about that. So it was like, that's something you can't control and something maybe you wouldn't want to change anyway. So it's that. It's that kind of, you know, having that strength of character with ability to learn because you want to get better, but you also want to have a confidence to you.

Like you say, I don't think there can be many tests more than either doing public Speaking or again that meaning me doing kind of corporate stuff with companies and, or you know, putting someone in that spotlight for you saying, okay, there's 10, 20, 30, 40,000 or you know, a million or 5 million people listening or watching to feel yourself, then they go, right, go.

I know, but it's still funny. I think you get into a groove as well and it's that I know Tony Robbins has spoken about it, which you've spent more time obviously studying him than me. But that the dangers of autopilot because I think once that anxiety goes, you can actually get into bad habits because you're not actually learning and you're not growing because you just, you're like a sort of an automatron where the light comes on and you do it. But actually you need to have a little bit of that anxiety and a little bit of that awareness which you'll always have in person with audiences. That's the thing. You know, I think we've been doing public speaking. They're always there, you always see them. Whereas with a TV studio it's a closed environment. So you can actually almost forget and actually. And not really think, am I being annoying? Am I being warm or being convivial? You know, that kind of thing which you have to try and sometimes when you're doing it for a while is consciously remind yourself of trying to be better every, every time you go live.

That's what I found. You know, since lockdowns happened, I was, I'd started kind of doing talks for companies and then of course it all got switched to online and you know, I've said countless times, but it's all very well, but it's just not the same as feeling the energy in the room and having feedback because sometimes you just talk to camera, like literally your presentation and you is sitting in your room for a whole hour of you just talking and you've got no idea. And sometimes you go, I wonder if any like maybe the connections. Yeah, even there. And then at the end of the hour you kind of go on to the comments and then people go oh thanks, that was really good. You know. Was it? Well, I've.

Yeah. 11:30 at work sometimes in the evening you're just reading a story and you suddenly have that out of body experience where pretty much the office is empty and you're sort of. Yeah, you light there and think is this, is this really happening? Is it going out? And obviously it is. But yeah, you don't have that kind of, that human interconnection.

Yeah. Which is priceless but we're. We're getting there.

Yeah, well, mate, we've had it. We've had a really good chat and I'm aware that I'm probably ruining the homeschooling schedule at the moment as well.

That's right.

Hey, it's been great to catch up quick, direct people to the whole Man Academy as well, because I don't. I thought I was on the email list but I had to re. Sign up to that as well because it was really.

Yeah, well, I can, I can add you to it if you want to save you doing it. But yeah, I mean, you know, we're on Instagram and Facebook, but if you just go to. Well, I can always send you the. The link tree which has got all of our stuff on it, so the mentorship, etc. Etc. But you know, people just go to www.wholemanacademy.com generally everything is on there. And some nice pictures of David Gandhi as well, if they need to look at them.

Of course. The ambassador. Yeah, David Gandhi, who's a doppelganger of yourself as well, if people want to look you up if they're listening to this podcast.

He's foot taller, but apart from that.

Yeah, yeah, he is. He's a man that sets a certain standard that we're. We'll never get, but we'll keep trying. Anthony, pleasure to have you on, mate. Really appreciate it. And we'll catch up soon.

Thank you, mate. Cheers.

Thanks for listening. Remember to sign up to our game Changing weekly E letter that's read by men around the world. Sign up@homeacademy.com forward/movement. Until next time.