EP110 - SALAH KHALIFA - FIGHTING SAVED MY LIFE | WHOLE MAN ACADEMY

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Are you ready? Okay, so this is the Whole Man Academy podcast. My guest today is Salah Khalifa. I've checked his name again so I don't get it wrong. Better known as Salah Beast. On Instagram we talk about social media. I just introduced him as a three time Mai Thai world champ. That's probably all I need to drop in to start with. And we're going to talk about and I picked these from his Instagram profile which is Father Fighter, Food, Fitness. We're going to cover all of those and more. But mate, first of all, how are you and where are you?

I'm very well, thank you. I'm in North London in my home gym, sipping on some tea.

I'm impressed. It's very nice and chilled and relaxed which is, which is probably far different. I know you've been rushing around because for the guys that are listening, I know you had your fight planned for was it last weekend and then it got cancelled. So tell us about that quickly.

Oh, it's been crazy but I've learned to just take it with my stride. It's. I was meant to have a fight but things happen, you know, nothing goes according to plan but it's how you react to adversity that I feel builds true character. So it's just one of the ones, man. I'm just kind of moving along. It's part of path now and it's sort of about looking forward, man. So yeah, it's been busy but it's good now because you know, I can just take easy refocus recovery and then just hopefully plan on the next target.

I was going to say is that how does it work with. Do you then look straight away for like when your next fight is or does it obviously depend on not just when your next fight but who's available for you to fight?

Yeah, it's a combination. It's a combination of all. But for me, rule number one is for me to be ready. That's what I'm asked. You know, the opposition, the show, the timing, you know, that all doesn't matter if I'm ready. It could be tomorrow or it could be next month. As long as I'm ready then, you know, we can move forward. So first thing I do is make sure that I'm in the right headspace, I'm in the right place physically, mentally and then, you know, the other stuff really kind of falls into place, I think.

I know we first got in touch I think because I'd interviewed Greg Wootton who obviously you knew as well. And Greg spoke at one of the first, it might be the first Wholeman Academy event we ever did back in like 2018. And yeah, he was a great guy and I found it so interesting to talk to guys that kind of put, I guess you could say put your life on the line for your passion because it's all very well playing football or tennis or something but you're not getting like head impact and getting kicked and punched and elbowed in the face.

Yeah, quite literally a modern day warrior, you know, that's what I say to myself. But it's funny you say that because it's a double edged sword being a fighter or an athlete, you know, it can work in your favor and against you as well. Like I will fight anyone or compete against anyone, it doesn't really matter to me. That's why I believe I was put on this earth. But I would never play football or I'd never play rugby. I just wouldn't do it. The amount of injuries that happen, you know, the amount of stuff that goes on. So some people, you know, you can get badly hurt or injured and you are putting your life on line in the ring. But also, you know, it's just one of them things where I'll never play football or play rugby just because of the injury that happens, you know what I mean? So it's just one of them ones. I feel like I'm in more control when I'm in the ring and I feel like you can only have yourself to blame when you're in there. Whereas with other sports, especially team sports and stuff like that, more moving, you know, aspects of it.

I'm probably a good example of that because playing football I broke my ankle, I broke my nose, I broke my wrist, I've tore my ligaments several times, I've been stretched off. So I know, you know, and often it was things when, you know, those injuries happen maybe when you're getting tired and stuff like that where you're not fully focused. So I understand, but I wanted to after the fight was cancelled. I know you And I kind of chatted back and forwards a bit on. On Tinstagram and stuff like that. And I'd shared the video where you said, like, mai tai saved my life. I do mai Tai to become a better person, which I thought was really interesting. And I'd shared that. And I had a couple of guys who messaged me back saying, isn't that interesting to hear? So I just wonder if you could tell me, like, how did my tie. Would you say, like, sum up, save your life?

So that's crazy, because when I did that video with Leapfrog, I got so many messages, so many comments, so many people reach out to me just because one, it's quite a bold statement and two, so many can relate to it because, you know, everyone is always looking to better themselves or might be going through a bad patch. And for me, Muay Thai just got me out of that. You know, I was growing up trying to find out who I am, trying to. Not in a great area. You know how it is. You know, boys just trying to assert their dominance. Just. It's all about aggression and, you know, power and fighting, and, you know, you're still finding out who you are. So for me, it was just like I kind of got with the wrong crowd. And I just thought fighting was the way forward. Fighting was, you know, how I can show my manhood, how I can, you know, be top dog. And in actual fact, the more I learned about fighting, the more I learned about martial arts, the more I learned about how to fight. In one way, you become more dangerous, but in another way, you also become less dangerous. Because I got into Muay Thai and I was like, wow, these are people who really know how to, you know, fight. These are really dangerous boys and girls, and they look normal. And on the street, I thought I was the man, but in actual case, when I got in there with them, I was getting beaten up left, right and center. So it just kind of humbled me. It humbled me. But when I say it saved my life, it's like I could have picked on the wrong person or I could have got into the wrong situation and, you know, it wouldn't have ended very well. Whereas now, the more I know I can look after myself, I look after those people around me. But I will do everything in my power to avoid certain situations, especially in London now where, you know, knife crime is on the rise, gun crime was on the rise. A good friend of mine got stabbed at my school. So it was just like people around me were dying and going to prison. Like left, right and center. So it came at the right time, you know, big, big up to my family and my father, who kind of pursued that. So when I say it saved my life, it literally did, man.

I guess it puts you on that right path. And is it? I know, looking at. Studying more about fighters, it's. It's about instinct, discipline in you, because you know that if you're, you know, let's say me and you go out for a night out in London now, the likelihood is that if there's 100 men in the room, you could probably, you know, pretty much kick the shit out of all of them, because it. But you never know when there's someone else who, you know, you haven't seen or someone's got a knife or a gun or something else. So I assume it's about realizing that you've got, you know, basically a level of power, but you've got to understand how to kind of harness it.

Definitely, man. Discipline is a big part of it, but also awareness, you know, you become aware of how the body moves, how your body moves, how to react, how to respond. If ever I was in a situation, I'll be the first person to walk the other way just because I want to avoid it. For your safety. For my safety, I could kick you in the head. Your head hits the floor. It's happened many times. You die or we can get into a situation and I get stabbed or shot, I die. It's just not worth it. Yeah, when you have a lot to lose, it's just not worth it. And people, you know, I'm a big believer in energy. You know, people get that sense of energy. You know, I've been, you know, with guys who are massive, you know, big ball about it and talk, but they can just. They get this energy where they're like, you know what? I actually don't want nothing to do with this. So it's just how you carry yourself. It's discipline. It's how you talk, it's how you walk. It's just all combined. But I can't tell it. I can't just say it. You have to kind of feel it. You have to go through it years and years and years of practice, but discipline is definitely a big part of it. I mean, one of the best things that martial arts ever bought for me was discipline, you know, but it helped me kind of control my thoughts. One, I was too tired to go out there and cause trouble, but then it was like, oh, this is how I can use my body. This is How I can, you know, I can then become world champion, I can travel the world. It just opened up so many doors for me that I never knew were possible.

Yeah.

That'S what I kind of try and push within the community as well. Like just, you know, just opening doors for the community, for young boys and girls within the community to say, yo, it actually is possible, anything is possible.

Yeah, I think that's such an important message because, you know, I feel like a lot of kids today also with the rise of mobile phones, they can literally be sucked into just looking at, firstly looking at what other people are doing all the time and how their other people have got a supposedly better life. But you know, so many kids now can just be addicted to the tech when actually, you know, getting into the ring or getting to the gym or just training can. Like you just said the word community and I kind of often feel like the tech side maybe takes that away.

The real community.

She can have friends online, but it's not the same as kind of getting involved with each other. And actually you were talking about as you grew up, you'd written, honestly, I was never a big fan of friends. Not having the best experience growing up around snakes, but when you find the right ones, you can change your life. Thoughts on that?

Done your research? It's, you know, growing up in a community where especially being a young boy or a young man, it's hard to trust others around you because everyone's out for themselves. And you know, the way the education system is set out, you know, it puts everyone into boxes and unfortunately if you don't fit into a box, you will struggle. And it's just one of them things, man, like growing up, everyone's. You think they're your friends until something happens, until someone dies or until the police get involved, until. And then you realize actually the only person you can rely on is yourself. If you're not happy with yourself, you're not happy with the person you are, then you can't really thrive. You can't help those around you, you can't set a good example. So the more I've done martial arts, the more I kind of started maturing as an athlete, as a fighter, the more it helped me with my school, it helped me family, helped me with relationships, it helped me because I wanted to find the right friends and it's just all kind of interlinked and it's a, you know, the friends you have around you is very, very important in who you become and kind of the direction you take in life.

I Think it's. It's probably something I didn't think too much about when I was younger, but a lot of the guys that I followed, who I respected, one of their big messages was, be careful who you let into your inner circle or circle of trust. Because like you say, I know you can't always assume that you can't trust everybody, but you often find out who your friends are when things are going badly. Because when things are going well, I said on the podcast a few weeks ago, I said, when you're rich, it's easy to be popular, but when things go badly or when you have a difference of opinion, you find out other people just disappear off. Or you're like, all right, you're not the friend that we thought you were.

But they say a winner has many fathers, but a loser is an orphan. You're a loser. And it's just one of them things where if you want to know who your real friends are, you know, start losing or start making mistakes, and then people come up. But at the end of the day, sometimes you may have trust issues or you may have grown up with bad experiences. But also, life teaches you that, you know, not everyone's the same and, you know, two people can react to completely different to a certain situation. So the more you grow up, the more you learn about yourself, the more you learn, much less. It does, it does humble you.

I think it's. This is why it's good to talk to different guys. And I always say guys from all around the world, from different backgrounds, different ages, who've got different experiences, because it's finding out those little things you've either learned from other people or picked up along the way. And I was going to ask you when you're getting ready for a fight, if we talk about fight camp. So let's say you've got a. A fight. You know, once you've signed to fight someone, how long out from it do you. And I know you're always going to stay in decent condition unless you're Ricky Hatton. But how long out do you say, right, I'm now properly in training for it, like hitting it hard.

That's the thing, man. I'm very against putting things into boxes. I will try and be fit all year round. I would try and kind of, this is the thing, like, life is the biggest fight that everyone's got to deal with and that I have in common with everyone else. People might not be able to relate with me in fighting in the ring or competing at the highest level, but they will have some sort of fight that they're going through, might be going for university, might be having some trouble at home. It could be anything. So I try and stay ready all year round, but maybe like four or five weeks I'll kind of knuckle down, start losing weight, you know, just up things a little bit. I'm very lucky. I've got a very strong support system. You know, I've got boxing coach, I've got Muay Thai coach, my wife is my SNC coach. So like I've got a good support system around me that kind of. It's less of a job and more of a lifestyle and you know, go to the gym every day. Maybe the last few weeks I'll go twice a day, but it's just more of lifestyle. I can't say to you this is exactly what I do. And because sometimes, you know, all the stars might not align so then you think, oh, I can't do it or do you know what I mean? So you kind of have to be adaptable. Some of the best and most successful people I know, whether they be like very wealthy or successful in business or successful athletes, they're just always ready to adapt. And I feel like that's my superpower, just being ready to adapt, take something on, be ready, change it and then add on.

Yeah, it's a good point. There's the old saying, adapt or die. And I guess in the last two years as well, when, you know, lockdowns happened and it let's be technically fucked a lot of people's businesses and, you know, if you were a fighter, were you not doing fighting for a while and you know, various other people I know that had with the whole man academy, you know, we'd had all those events in London and then they all got cancelled. But you have to adapt, otherwise you just, just melt away. But wanted to ask you a question which I guess you could probably answer better than most guys I'd interview would be training during Ramadan, because I know you said that's no joke, so that must be mental resilience, I guess it comes down to. So how does that work for you?

Definitely change. Ramadan, I think is mind of the mouth, but also you have to be clever with it. So it kind of depends. If you want to train really early in the morning when you're full of energy, then I'll do that and then you can kind of chill out during the day and see how you feel. But for me personally, it is, yeah, really early in the morning or an hour or two before you break your fast, because you've got an incentive in an hour, you know, I can drink or I can eat or whatever. And also, another good thing about training just before you break your fast is depending on how you feel, you can push yourself because, you know, it's like the last little bit, you can see the light at the end of the tunnel. So if you're full of energy, you know, you go crazy, put on a really good session, and then you can go and drink and eat. If not, then, you know, you just kind of take an easier session. But my thing is consistency. You know, there's no point doing one or two days and then chilling that. The whole point of Ramadan is to kind of stay active, stay moving. But you want to feel how it is like in other places around the world where they don't have food, they don't have some of the, you know, things that we have. We're very lucky, very, very blessed to be in a position where we can eat. We've got, you know, clothes on our back. We've got a roof overhead. So Ramadan is more than just training. Physically, it's a lot. Mentally, it's a lot to do with your spirit. So for me, it just kind of, whatever you do, stay consistent with it, whether it be training really early, whether it be training you break your fast. Some people like to train after they've eaten, so have something small to eat and then go train. But for me, from my personal experience, and it doesn't work for everyone, I like to put a good training session in just before I break my fast and I can chill out, break my fast, do my prayers, and then carry on.

I know people find it hard enough as it is to try and work out what they should or shouldn't be eating. You know, as you said, everybody's different. And some people can't eat before they train. Other people, you know, can eat full meals. So, as you say, it's that working out what works for you. And one of the other quotes I saw you say was, and we're going to come into fatherhood in a sec. You said, some confidence is loud and some confidence is laid back. Both are okay. I was very loud once upon a time, and people mistook my confidence for arrogance. Over the years, this has changed dramatically. I'm definitely more chilled now. And there was a great clip of you at the, you know, the start of one of your fights where the guy is. What would you call it that he's doing? He's kind of ritual before the fight, and you're literally leaning back on the ropes in a respectful way. But I was just like. I just cracked up. So I was like. As opposed to thinking, like, right, I've got to stare him out. You're just like. Like you were waiting for an ice cream or something like that.

That's the thing. I mean, let's start from the beginning. Growing up, you know, where, you know, kind of come from, it's like, loud is better. Rolexes, better Range Rovers, Lamborghinis. Like, loud is. Is winning. Loud is successful. Loud is strong. Loud is everything. You know, it's all about the best. And then you realize, actually, it's not necessarily. That's not necessarily the case sometimes, you know, less is more. My wife used to tell me when I first met, less is more sal. Less is more salah. Like, you know, and I never got it. I never got it. It was like, no, louder, bigger. And then now, growing up, you know, being a father or husband, a fighter, all of them kind of things, it's like, okay, less is more. It's all about timing. It's all about, you know, showing. You're not showing all your cards. It's all a chess game. Experiences teach you that, you know, you don't want to show your cards, you don't want to show your moves. You kind of just play one move at a time, one day at a time, and slow things down. And kind of now I'm very laid back. I'm very easy. I'm very chill. I don't need to, you know, try and intimidate my opponent or scare him or stamp the ring or, you know, it's all good, like, in due time, you know, when the time is right, that's when I'll do it. And that fight was a great example of it. I mean, big respect to my opponent. He was great. He was doing his Runway, you know, and there is theory behind that. And you loosen off and you're trying to be intimidating and get a crowd going, but it was like, you know, didn't phase me. Yeah. And then when it's time to get to work, boom. No energy was wasted. I was straight on it, and I dominated the fight. So it was like. But, you know, that's just one. One scenario. I've been in situations in fights where I've been cocky and I've been giving it a big one and I've still won or, you know, I've been calm enough, lost. It kind of. It just depends on your mood. But I've Just come to realize with experience and with age, less is more. I don't need to waste no energy I've got no point to prove as long as I get the job done, get the w, get the win, that's all that matters, you know? So you kind of. You're clear. You have a clear vision of what you want to do, and you just do it.

How old are you? I haven't asked you.

Me? I'm old boy now, man. I'm 30.

30? Okay, well, I'm 14 years old than.

You, but you look 14 years younger than me.

Well, it's all the coconut oil I rub everywhere. But do you know what I'd say? Is it like you feel like you've got a wise head on? I would say young shoulders, because I think that, let's say the guys say 10 or 15, 20 years younger than me, have grown up around the social media side where it is everybody showing their best life and the best version of themselves. But sometimes it's not a real version.

Because let's move on to social media. I'm like, you know, this is a big, big part of today's conversation. This is a big part of the way the world is heading. And you're not the first to say this to me. Like, growing up, I was always around my father. I was always around my dad. You know, wherever he would go, he would take me along with him. And I kind of always was surrounded by older men, people that, you know, they were talking politics, they were talking finance, they were talking all sorts of stuff, mostly politics, which I don't really like, but it was just like, I then got to see different ways of, like, discussing or arguing or just like different viewpoints, and it kind of just. Okay, cool. So he sees you like that. He's. And then this person. So it just kind of made me develop very, very differently. So that was just the start of it. And then at school, I just didn't get along with many people my age. It was always the older kids that were like, on, I don't know, making money or business or driving cars or. There's no one really my age that was on. That was just, you know, there's nothing wrong with this, but they were just trying to, you know, go eat or go look for girls or. It just wasn't my kind of scene. I wasn't really on that. So that was where it started off. And I'm trying to do the same with my daughter now. As soon as she can walk, bro, she's with me in the gym, like, she was sitting in the ring. I've got pictures of her just about standing on the wall. She probably took her first steps in the gym, you know what I mean? So I'm trying to bring her around me just so she's surrounded by that conversation, surrounded by, you know, people with more life experiences. She's very social. She's like, I could leave her anywhere, she'd be able to sort herself out. She's very confident, very, you know, outgoing. And I'm proud of that, you know, especially in today's day and age where social media is at the forefront of everyone's mind. Everyone's getting their phone, everyone's trying to take pictures rather than living in the moment. I don't like, you know, you used to have to send CVs out for work, now you don't. You just give them your profile on Instagram, whatever, and that's it. Then they know about you. Whenever you go see someone, they say, oh, you know, I saw you. You've been doing this or you've been doing that. I've never met you, mate. How do you so. And also, you know, brings out insecurities. Everyone's insecure in one way or any other. But at the end of the day, social media is people's highlights. All of the best bits.

Yes.

And that's not really what happens. Best bits of their relationship, best bits of their training. So unfortunately, you know, we have to slowly break and come out of that cycle because it's just hard on us mentally. You know, everyone seems good and strong and perfect on there. So. And remember, comparison is the thief of joy. So it's one of them things where you keep comparing and I want this and I want that, and I've fallen into that trap many times. Yeah. Now I'm in a regular process of, you know what? I'm coming off social media for a week. Oh, you know what, I'm coming off social media for a couple of weeks. Or, you know, I'm just chilling because people say I'm on a diet, you know, and diet isn't only what you put in your mouth, it's also what you see, it's also what you hear. I mean, so that big effect on your spirit has a big effect on you as a person. So you know people, and especially when you're up and coming and you don't know who you are and you're trying to find yourself, it can be a very hard time. So I'm just trying to lead by example and show, you know, My family, my girls, and people around me, that happiness isn't on your phone.

Yeah, I think that's great. And it's so important, like you said, especially for kids. You know, we've spoken a lot on the whole Man Academy on different podcasts or our e letters about social media and your relationship with it. And it seems like a lot of youngsters are growing up, and basically they haven't said, oh, I want to be, you know, a plumber, or I want to be a pilot. I want to be whatever. It's like, I just want to be an influencer. And you're like, what does that mean to you? And, like, basically, I just want to be able to, like, video my life and get paid for it. And, you know, there are people that do that, but unfortunately, it's a very small percentage of people.

That's the thing. And some people on there are making silly money, stupid money, and crazy money. But at the end of the day, you have to tell yourself, if tomorrow social media was down, then who would you be? Who are you? If money would know, like, if money wasn't an incentive, if you didn't need, what would you then do? Oh, then it becomes a different conversation. I want to travel. I want to help. I want to, you know, work within my community. I want to, you know, provide services. And it's always about giving back. So you just got to kind of remind yourself every now and again. And conversations like this need to happen more often, and we need to kind of go out and reach people and tell them that, you know, it's possible. Growing up there was. Social media was kind of just on the rise, but I didn't have time. I think, you know, when I got sent an opponent, I didn't even have time to check out who he was or who I was. Fine. But now it's like, oh, does he have a good Instagram? Is he good? Is he not good? What does he do? What does he eat? Blah, blah. And it's like, you know, it just takes away from the process, because remember, it is the journey, not the destination. It's the process. You know, that that's where you kind of grow and become better. I've seen it. And a lot of these kids, they're doing things for the wrong reasons, man. They're fighting for the wrong reasons. You know, they're taking a fight so they can have cool pictures on Instagram or they're training for the wrong reasons. Every single training session has to be filmed or videoed. There's a saying around if it's not on the ground, it didn't happen. It's like people just doing things for the wrong reasons, man.

I totally agree. I worry about some people, and I know I use social media for the whole man academy, but I very rarely share anything on my own personal Instagram. I used to. And then I just thought, you know what? I realized how much time I was wasting.

And.

And even with our kids, you know, we've got two boys who are. One's just five and one's three, and we never ever put anything about them on social media anymore, you know, And.

I used to, yeah, social media is just work. It's just literally work. My family and stuff, I try and keep that private.

Yeah, no, that's exactly the same. And I get it. Some people love sharing it. But we both made that decision probably a couple of years ago, and we were like, maybe it's a year and a half ago. And I was reading about, like, Facebook, where Facebook will create ghost profiles of your children or anybody that doesn't have a. What's the word? You know, doesn't have an account, and they will use facial recognition to build a profile of someone. And I was like, I don't just. It fries my brain, to be honest. But let's talk about father quickly, because what was it like when you became a dad? It's one hell of a change for many people or many guys, I should say.

Best thing in the world. Absolutely. Best thing in the world. You know, I was very busy within my own life. You know, it was always about me, me, me. I want to do this, I want to do that. I want to accomplish this. I want to create this. The minute you have kids, everything changes. Your perspective changes. And no matter how much you think you know or how much experience you've had in life, my daughters teach me something new every day. Just. Just. They're like clean slates, you know, they're always picking up things. They're very, very, like, you know, willing to learn. As they say, you know, kids will fall down a thousand times, but still try and get up every single time. So, you know, it's just perspective. I love being a dad, especially to two girls, you know, beautiful souls. And it's. It makes me a better person because, remember, selfishly, you know, you want to become a better person. So if having kids makes you a better person, then sure, you know, some people can, some people can't. Some people like it, some people don't. Remember, life is the biggest fight, and there's no right or Wrong one. So, yeah, I love it, love being a father. It gives me reason, you know, I took some time out from fighting, from competing, to kind of focus on myself, my kids, supporting my wife. And then when the time is right, you know, I'll step back in the ring and it's just like I never left.

I think it's great. And I know some people find it. I've found it certainly challenging being a dad because like you said, you have to change everything, you know, your game plan. I used to go to the gym so much and I used to work in the city. And then when we moved away from London and move up to the Cotswolds, you know, just after that, we then had. We then kind of got pregnant with our first child. And yeah, when he came along, like you say, it's amazing, but boy, everything, everything changes. But now, like you said, I, I'm never happy then if I'm just with my kids and my partner, Emma, and we are just doing stuff, you know, we don't care. It hasn't got to be expensive, flashy, whatever stuff. It can literally be like going to the, you know, up the road, there's a little stream or something. We're all playing in that or building something and you're like, that's what real life is and not.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Especially for a man, you know, there's a lot around, you know, fathers, fatherhood, the dynamics of the relationship. The world is changing, society is putting certain things on men and women, you know, But I just, I'm a big believer of saying by example, like, I love being a dad. I definitely want to support all the other dads out there. Some dads are going through a hard time. Men in general, you know, we struggle with mental health. So becoming a father is not, it's not easy. So it's just one of them things where, oh, if Sal can do it, you know, he's a fighter and he's, you know, father and this and the other. Then, yeah, cool. And like, I see the reactions outside. Like, not too long ago, I took both of my girls to America and it was like a 14 hour flight. It was just me and two girls and people were just like, wow, I never had so many compliments in my life. You know, it's a life hack. So, yeah, so it's just like the way people perceive fathers, the way people perceive men, you know, we need to stick together and kind of change that stereotype. And that's like, you know, another good thing about having kids and Having daughters, because, you know, I want to go out there and say, yes, I'm a good dad, and being a dad is cool, you know, So I just kind of want to push that a little bit more. And I feel like, you know, we need to together.

I think it's great. And you know what? You've obviously been reading my notes because you've just touched on that. We're going to go on to the kind of topic of, you know, why the whole man academy was started, which was a. To encourage guys to get together, to talk, which is important, but also to help a guy live his own version of an epic life. Because, you know what? Yours is different to mine, to someone else's. But I know you said men are less likely to get help, especially when it comes to mental health. So this is me speaking out and saying it's okay to feel down and even more okay just to speak about it. Because guys just generally don't. It is like, shut up, get on with it, bury it. And then the pressure builds up. So I just wondered for you, like, what's that been like? Because if you had any times where you're, you know, it must be a struggle, especially when you're trying to juggle everything in life as well.

Yeah, for sure, man. Like, that's literally happened with me personally.

It's hard.

I was never a fan of talking, never a fan of conversations. It's like, you know what? Actions speak louder than words. I'm going to get on with it and I'm going to push, push, push. But, you know, when life gets on top, it gets hard. You have to talk about things. You have to open up. You know, I've been through some dark, dark, you know, patches of my life. And only when you've gone through them yourself do you realize, oh, you know, I need help, Others need help. I'm going to use my experiences to help others. And ultimately, it's all about giving back. Yeah, it's really good. You know, I'm loving this whole man Academy that he's doing. It's great. We need more of it. We need, you know, more men to come together positively. Because, you know, don't forget, man, like, we like to compete. We're very competitive beings, and that's fine. You know, we can all compete together or whatever, but, you know, as long as we're kind of helping each other, when need is help, then no problem. You know, I just feel like definitely with today's day and age, you know, we need to come together and have these conversations and it's okay to have them, you know, look at Tyson Fury. Absolute legend.

Yeah.

Mental health. And he's, you know, the probably manniest man out there, you know. So it's one of them things where whenever I talk about mental health, whenever people are like, wow, oh, my goodness, I can't believe that, one, you're talking about it, or two, you've struggled, or three, I can relate. It's just so many things. So it's like, definitely a very, very important because, you know, we're a big part of the community. You know, a lot of pressure put on us in terms of, you know, providing and a lot of these stereotypes. And some people, you know, just deal with things differently. So definitely need to normalize having a conversation about mental health. Definitely need to normalize that, you know, men can ask for help as well as with the other things.

Yeah, I think that was where. When we first started the whole Man Academy, it was just about running some events to get guys together to talk. And it wasn't. I think it's what we tried to explain to it. It wasn't coming along. To unpack all your shit and be like, I just want to tell you, you know, emotionally vomit over someone. It was bringing in guys. It would be like, yourself. It'd be Greg Wootton or, you know, Liam McKenzie spoke. We had, you know, we've had a real range of guys that would come in and just talk about an inspiring story or a lesson that they've learned. Well, look, we've only got five minutes left anyway. I appreciate we've taken up your time, but I just wanted to say one word to you, which is, and if I pronounce her name right, Nesri. So tell me about the effect that she's had on your life.

It's been a great positive effect on my life, man. She's my first ever student, my first ever and only wife, because I know she's gonna hear this. And, yeah, she was. You know, we kind of met in the gym, and we were very similar in our lives, our passions. And then she was studying at the time her strength and conditioning. So it was, like, lovely, man. It was perfect. I was teaching her Muay Thai. She was doing a lot of strength and conditioning for me, and I just, you know, fighting and moving up a level in Muay Thai. And it was great, man. It was a great relationship. We've never been to Thailand, so we kind of went to Thailand straight away, spent a lot of time together. But, you know, she's a mother of our kids. She's kind of what keeps the family together.

Isn't that important? Very.

Family is everything. Everything you do should be for your family, for your health and a healthy family, you know, it's very important.

And do you think you'll stay living in this country? Would you be interested in moving, you know, abroad? Anywhere, mate?

Listen, I have this conversation with my wife every other week. Honestly. Yeah, I'd love to move abroad. London would always be my home, you know, born and raised. I'm a London boy you can't get. But I'm a big believer of different experiences. I've lived out in Thailand for a couple years. I've traveled the world just because of fighting and teaching. I just feel like, you know, any human being is wasted if they just stay in one place.

Yeah.

You know, to go out and explore and see different people and, you know, my little girls are very well trafficked just because of that. Because it just helps you grow as a human being. So, you know, you realize that there's so many beautiful people and places out there. You can't just live, especially in London. London is a busy city. Great for work, great for money, but other than that, there's not much to it.

Yeah, I think it's. We always say, you know, like, especially when kids are little, if you can take them around here, then everywhere, and even if it's not necessarily abroad, but even, you know, to different parts of the country over here so they can have some different life experiences. And in fact, for us, we take our boys back to London A, because we've got family in North London, but also because around here it's not a reflection of real life. I mean, firstly, our village is full of a lot of retired people and also all white people, basically. And kids need to understand that the world isn't just a load of white people who wear beige and like to wear Crocs and do gardening. So trying to say, look, there are, you know, there are other cultures around that we can really learn from. Yeah, I think that's great. Is to try and, you know, is to educate kids when they're young on just how the world works and stuff.

London's great for that. London is very multicultural. London. You see all sorts of different people, different colors, different races, different, you know, cultures. So that is probably one of the most beautiful things about London. But like you said, man, going out there, seeing different people, meeting, you know, different people and learning. Because knowledge is power in the base. It's all about learning. And like, you know, I always get asked, you Know what piece of advice that you would give to people, what you know, and it's just like there's a few pieces and one of them is to travel. Definitely travel guidelines. See, meet from people, learn, you know, you never know what you will. It's kind of all about who you know rather than what you know, you know. So if you're well, well managed and well, you know, have a great network, then, you know, you never know. And also it's like, what's your why? Why do you do things? Why are you, you know, why have you been put on this earth? Is it to help others? Is it, you know, to make money? Is it, what's your why? Once you know your why, then it will help you a lot in life. Because I never knew what I was going to do for years and years and years. Went to uni because, you know, I was the first one in my family to go to uni. And my mom, I wanted to make my mom proud, you know, what's your. Why not join the fire service when my daughter was born, just to kind of, you know, give back to the community and, you know, kind of be someone that my daughter could be proud of. And it's just like, what is your why? You have to really ask yourself that. Sit down. And it'll take some time to get to it. But, you know, that's a very, very important part of, you know, moving forward.

You said it. I know we've mentioned the word community and like, what can you do for it A couple of times? And I find that maybe at the moment where people, because they're so led by the news that people will support whatever the latest thing is. But my question is always, what are you actually doing week to week or month to month for your own community? Like, yes, it's all very nice to do stuff for other places in the world, but actually start off with your own doorstep and look around and see who you can help. Because otherwise people quite happily get onto Instagram and let everybody know, you know, what, what they're doing for other places. And like you say, like, nurture your family, nurture your community first. But next question is, what's the next big thing for you? Is it then now looking ahead for the next fight?

Well, that's just part of my lifestyle, man. Fighting, competing, training, that, that's just, I don't want to say it's normal, but that's just kind of part of the lifestyle. I will always be competing, I will always be training. I'll always be, you know, doing all that stuff. Stuff. But hopefully maybe some, you know, more community work, you know, hopefully, maybe, I don't know, see if I can move abroad for a little bit, you know, get some cool experiences abroad, do some training abroad, do some teaching abroad. But, you know, like I said to you earlier, and I say this many times, and people, you know, think I'm obsessed with all these boxes, but I just want to be free. Bruce Lee, I've always wanted to say this. Yo, Bruce Lee said, be like water. Yeah. You put water into the cup, it becomes the cup. You put water to the teacup, it becomes the teapot. You know what I mean? So it's like, I just want to be fluid, be ready, be versatile. But yeah, like this. I used to, you know, be very goal driven. And what's the next thing? What's the next big thing? What's the next big thing? And it's just like, you know, there doesn't have to be a next big thing. It's all about yourself. Do you know what I mean? So. And a lot of. Especially going back to men, you know, as men, we put a lot of pressure on ourselves. You know, we put a lot of, you know, what's the next big thing you're gonna do? What's the next big, you know, what's it. And going back to social media, it's all connected. Social media. What's this big thing that I can put on? Some people go to places to eat just because they want to put it on social media. Like, yo, what's that all about? I'll go somewhere to eat because I like it. I mean, so going back to, you know, ask yourself, what is your why? And just kind of build some sort of momentum. Do little things often. And it doesn't have to be an expert thing, man. Just be happy, be healthy, like it.

Just enjoy the ride, as it were, at the moment. Okay, what's your plan? Straight after this.

What have I got planned? I'm gonna go pick up my daughter from athletics, spend some time with her, and then I'm gonna head to the gym, do my training, and then I'm on duty tonight at the fire station. Go to the fire station, do my little bit for the community, as we will say, and then, yeah, man, that's it. Not much planned.

I'm impressed. You seem very nice and relaxed and very well centered, which I think is important. And we probably need a few more men like that around. Especially, you know, I would say maybe in the communities around, you know, inner outer London where there is a Lot more. You know, the biggest crime around where I live was someone's wheelie bin got stolen about two years ago. You know, that made, like, the big news. So I know it's, you know, one of our slogans is, you know, the world needs strong men. And that doesn't always necessarily mean physically, it's mentally as well, to be able to, you know, deal with all the challenges life. Life throws at you. But. Well, I appreciate all your time. I know we've been trying to get this interview going for a while, so it's been great to finally talk to you. And I always say that hopefully at some point when I'm in London, if we've got an event on or whatever, love to see there. Meet up from manhug and. And have a fruity tea and have a chat.

Definitely, man. It'll be my pleasure, man. I'm in North London as well, so. You said your family is from around here, so, yeah, anytime, man. Just pick up the phone, give me a call, and then, yeah, we'll meet up, man. We'll have a chat.

Sounds like a plan. Perfect. Right, well, I will let you go and I will speak to you soon.

Big up to yourself for doing this, man. This is great, great stuff, man. This is exactly the kind of thing that young kids need to watch. Men need to watch. So, yeah, build up yourself. We need to. Definitely need more of this kind of stuff out there.

Yeah.

So thank you for what you do, man.

We're getting there. Slowly but surely, man.

Love it.

All right, you got to enjoy your afternoon. I'll catch you soon. Thanks, man.

See you.

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