EP116 - PSYCHOLOGICAL MANIPULATION - DAVID KEY | WHOLE MAN ACADEMY

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Okay, so this is the whole Man Academy podcast, episode 116. My guest today is David Key, Amazon number one best selling author, award winning coach, principals teacher, which we'll get on to. NLP trainer, master trainer of hypnosis and also a friend of mine. David, how are you and where are you?

I'm really good and I'm in my garden. I'm actually not in the garden. I'm in the shed at the end of the house. This is my place now. This is where I get my quiet time and have conversations like this. Love it.

Isn't it important? I know you've got kids and we know that kids and much everything else are unpredictable with their noise and everything else. So what has it been like for you? Because we spoke. The previous podcast some of the guys were listening to was April 2020 and nothing really, nothing really has happened since then. Of course.

Nothing much.

No, it's been quite. So we're going to jump into a lot that today because I think, you know, it's a perfect time to, to speak to you about this stuff. But at what point did you move into the, let's call it the, the room at the end of the garden?

Well, I had a. So I started off working at home 20 years ago as a coach, but I still have my corporate mentality with me so I decided that, oh, I need an office and desks and have to get in the car and drive to this place to do work. You know, I was still in that mindset. So that was in 2000 and 2006, but I had offices. Then we moved because it was at the beginning of the last recession, so I rented my flat out, had kids, got offices, and then when the recession sort of. Sort of died down and things were on the. On the return, I decided, we're going to buy a family home. And I bought this. Then I looked at my expenditure on rent and I had a space. And a friend of mine's a builder, and he said, hey, Dave, you know, you've got beautiful views out there. I'm looking over in farmers fields. Why do you want to get in your car and get an office? Why don't I build you one? I'm like, you can build me one. He said, yeah, I'll knock those fences down so you'll have an aspect over the field and we'll build a shed. Heating, lighting, electric, Internet. Cost me about ten grand. I have saved hundreds of thousands of pounds in not having to pay rent. It's absolutely brilliant. So 2010 was when I moved here.

Yeah.

But, yeah, it was a bit of a godsend in the pandemic because I could retreat from homeschooling, be in my space and get creative as opposed to being stuck in the house. I was very fortunate.

You just said about. I mean, using the word escape, but that's what we saw with a lot of guys and. And still now who are struggling with being forced to work from home by their companies who are saying, you know, there's always going to be positives and negatives of all these different situations. But, know, some of the guys we've seen and are still seeing are finding it great because, you know, you don't have to commute. But of course, they're missing out on the. So social aspect of actually going into the office. I wondered how. How do you get through that? I know you play a bit of golf, so you see your friends, but I think it's one of those things. I don't think we'll realize the true impact of it maybe for, I don't know how many years on. On. Especially men who are used to being in the office with other groups of men, talking nonsense, having a laugh, bit of banter.

Yeah, it's. Yeah. So human contact is extremely important. Right. We know that. And Zoom doesn't really do it. I mean, we're having a conversation. It's great. But we got to meet last week. Yeah, It's a totally different experience being in the room with people, so I totally understand why people are struggling. I'm very fortunate. I live close to a pub. I don't really drink. I'll Have a pint every now and again. Maybe after a game of golf on a hot, sunny afternoon outside, pint of cider. But I'm not a real drinker. My father was. He was down the pub every day after work, and that was his time, his quiet time, meeting with the guys, because he generally worked on his own as well, in a. In an office, on a computer, all day. I never really saw the value. And then the pandemic came. I know we couldn't on many occasions go out, but I tell you what, when we were allowed out to sit in a garden six foot away from somebody, I. I was there. Yeah. So that's like 10 minutes from here. And I've got guys that I know from school. We've known each other for 40. Well, I'm 56 next birthday, so, you know, 45 years I've known that. Some of these guys and I just go there because they don't talk work, they talk silly bollocks. And it's fun and it's. It's a way to recharge and be awake because I've got two girls, my wife, two female cats. Luckily, I bought a dog, boy, in the pandemic, so I've got him as company. But it's not quite the same as being with fellas. So I think it's really important that, you know, we have a circle of friends or acquaintances that we just get to be in their space and to sort of get away from that work environment, especially if we don't have an external office. Personally, this is great because. Because I don't take my work home and literally, I walk out that door and I've forgotten what I've talked about.

Yeah, that is priceless because, I mean, we had the dinner the last time we saw each other. You know, there was the whole Man Academy dinner that evening. And we always get a mix of guys either coming to events or for dinners, but a lot of them say how good it is just to get out and just meet new people as well and have new conversations, new experiences. But during that, I'd said that we were going to have you on the podcast, and I like to, you know, find a few of the guys and ask them questions. So one of the guys was talking about hypnosis, and I know for you, you know, hypnosis is a. A big part of what you've learned and one of your kind of tools in your, you know, toolkit, as it were.

Yeah.

Tell me what it's like. Firstly, where did you learn hypnosis? And Then what was it like? Especially when you first started doing it, because it. I know after learning from you, it's a really weird experience to see someone doing something and you're like, it's working.

Yeah. Because there's a lot of intellectual misunderstanding about what hypnosis is. It's a. You know. So when did I first get into it? I was in my 20s, actually. I was. I was a seeker and I was in Liverpool and I had this guy, a friend of my. My girlfriend at the time, her best mate's boyfriend. Okay. He became boyfriend later down the road. I mean, they just started going out. But prior to that, I knew Russell and he was a very shy character. He said, why don't we go to a stage show in Blackpool? So I was like, yeah, sure, Hypnosis, stage show. So we went for a few beers. I saw this stage show and I saw Russell perform some hypnotic phenomena that I was like, he must be acting.

Okay.

Yeah, he must be acting. He was drinking a pint of vinegar, thinking. He was drinking a Coke. He ate an onion, thinking it was a beautiful peach. He started commanding the stage, thought he was a hypnotist. At one point, the hypnotist hypnotized him to say, when you wake up, you will own this stage. And you are the. You know, you're the hypnotist for the day. And you're gonna run and you're gonna do a show with the audience.

Yeah.

500 people in the room, shy. Russell, you know, didn't. At the time that we went, he wasn't going out with Maria, so he hadn't had a girlfriend, had no confidence, didn't have the courage to go up and speak to somebody and say, fancy a drink? Yeah, or anything like that. And yet here he was on stage commanding the audience, saying, right, okay, we're going to do a hypnosis show. This is. I'm Russell. This is the Russell lynch hypnosis show. I'm like, what on earth is this guy doing? How. Where's he getting all these words from? He brought people out of the audience. He was doing these amazing things, and he was in a trance while he was doing it. So when he came back at the end of the show, we were like, were you acting? So what are you talking about? No. Then what you just did, you were drinking vinegar, eating an onion, going around the whole venue, talking to every woman that you could meet, asking them if they wanted a drink. Because that was one of the suggestions the hypnotist gave him, right? And then at the end, he kept you on stage after everybody went back in their seats after having their, you know, wacky races and pretending they were driving super formula cars whilst they're sitting in their seats. We've all seen the stuff on telly, right?

Yeah.

And Russell, you know, I. I'm like, but at the end, you just stood on stage for 20 minutes and did a stage show. In hypnosis, you've never been trained. You don't even know what it is. And he's like, what are you talking about? I went, well, what you just did. He went, I didn't do that. He had no recollection, which is a hypnotic phenomena. Everybody listening to this? Yeah. Well, it. It is. I mean, some people would say it might be dementia, but I mean, it's literally he did not have any recollection. Now, obviously, I've been on a journey since that time in 1996, I studied with a Harley street hypnotist, because after seeing Russell do that, I thought I got to learn me that. That's. I was profound and I was hooked. And obviously now I know there are a number of different hypnotic phenomena that human beings experience themselves throughout their lives. And hypnosis is just self hypnosis. It's. It's like, technically speaking, they shouldn't be the term hypnotist.

Right.

It's. The hypnotist is almost like a guide. And the person who goes into trance, like Russell just followed some instructions and using his own neurology, altered his state of consciousness to the point where he had one of the hypnotic phenomena, and that is amnesia. Now, everybody watching this has had an experience of amnesia. You know, forgetting.

Yeah.

Where they forgot. You know, you hear a record on the radio, driving to work, and I love this song. What was it? What's the name again? I know this. I know it. And then, you know, 20 minutes later, when they're at work, sitting at their workstation, tapping an email. God, I remember the song.

It comes to you.

Well, that's an example. Yeah. Of amnesia, where we know something and we forget. So part of hypnosis is to induce amnesia. And the. The reason we want to induce amnesia, we want to make use universal experiences in our language. Like, everybody watching this right now has had an experience where they walked into a room and didn't even know why they were there. And then they go, yeah, that's true. I know. And then I go, forgetting is easy. You forget. You've forgotten. And I know there's been a time in your life where you had A dream, and you woke up from that dream, and you remember part of it, and then a matter of moments later, it's gone. Because forgetting is easy. So what you do is you. In hypnosis, you're giving examples that are what we call universal experiences that everybody's had, which in of itself, to remember something that you forgot, forgotten, or an experience where you've forgotten induces amnesia. It's quite profound. Why would you want to do that? Because you don't really want somebody who's experiencing hypnosis with maybe overcoming a challenge for, say, from. In a therapy context. Let's say they've got a. Every time they hear a sound, they freak out. Every time they see a tomato, they feel sick. You know, some people have phobias of tomatoes or baked beans or spiders and airplanes. You know, the everyday human experience, that's so intense that they don't want to feel that anymore.

Yeah.

So when you work with them, you're inducing amnesia. They go into a trial with their eyes open a lot of the time. Because a lot of people think hypnosis is real sleep. It's a different type of sleep. It's called nervous sleep, which is the translation of hypnosis, nervous sleep. And you're aware of everything you hear, everything you feel, experiences. But what seems to happen is that the person's conscious mind, their ego, their intellect, the part of them that knows everything, that doesn't really. We give that something to do in hypnosis so that gets out of the way, and then what you're left with is like a gateway into the person's unconscious mind. And the definition of unconscious mind is your unconscious mind. And this is hypnotic in its of itself. Your unconscious mind is the part of your mind that you're not conscious of right now. Here we go. What? Yeah, yeah, seriously. Then they go into trust. So when you induce amnesia loops, like little stories about forgetting. You know, you've walked into a room and you put your keys down, and then five minutes later, it's like, it's gone, where are my keys? You know? Or you've been to a party and introduced to someone and given their name, and five seconds later it's like, what was their name?

Yeah. Done that so much.

Yeah. So that. That is a natural human experience amnesia. So by inducing that, when someone's gone into a trance, then when you make suggestions, like, the next time you see a red tomato, you're just gonna feel an overwhelming sensation to laugh out loud, and you'll have no reason, you'll have no Idea why and that's okay. And you repeat it over and over and over and over and over again. Bit like some of the conversation we might have later. And some of our institutions.

Yes.

Using hypnosis over those last couple of years. And so by giving amnesia suggestions and they forgotten. And then you give them suggestions about next time you see a tomato that you, you used to freak out at. That's a suggestion used to putting it in the past, in their mind.

Yeah.

Saying you'll see an orange tomato and you'll just have an overwhelming sensation of hysterical laughter wash over you. The more you resist, the harder it'll become to resist. So you're putting in suggestions over and over again. It's repetition. You just repeat. You repeat, repeat, repeat, whilst the critical faculty, their logic and reasoning has left the room, their conscious mind. Or you give their con. Or you create confusion, which we'll talk about.

Yeah.

Once you have confusion, the intellect goes, ah, you know, sod it, give up. I'll give up. Can't track this. And then human beings take on the suggestions and with amnesia, when they come out of trance, they don't remember, so they don't unpick the suggestion. Okay, so it sticks.

I find this. And like we said, we'll, we'll get on to more of this, but so interesting because also my other question was about. And I had this conversation at the dinner the other night. Are certain people more susceptible to hypnosis than others? And if so, how are you? If someone comes to see you, let's say with your. And says, dave, I need help because I don't want to get on an airplane or something. Are you able to do things where you go, you know what, it's not for you or you like, yeah, we can do it.

No, because I know every human being, without exception, no matter what you think, oh, I can't be hypnotized. You'll never hypnotize me. I normally get that one down the pub. Go on, Dave, prove it.

Yeah, go on.

Often I'll just go to shake their hand and put their hand in front of their face and they're like this for half an hour and everyone laughing at them. You know, it's called a rapid introduction, rapid induction.

Right. I was going to ask you about that because I've seen you do it. And obviously the person that maybe think about hypnosis might think of the, you know, slow talking and counting or, you know, tick tock of a clock. I've seen you do that. Whereas you say it's like you go to shake someone's hand and you just lift their hand up their face and you're like, done. And you're like, what the just happened?

It's called a pattern interrupt. So human beings are walking around with programs unconsciously that run automatically. Someone puts their hand out. You don't even think about it. You automatically go, shake hands. Especially guys. Right?

Yeah.

I'm not saying ladies don't do that, but you know what I mean? This is a, a guy's chat. So when we shake like a man, son. So. And then at school we played that game, don't we put your hand out and took it out. You know the one. Well, there's an example. And you've left your childhood mate in the middle of the playground for a second. It's in that second where you've interrupted an automatic program by not putting your hand out, but you got to put it out and take it away. And in that one second or half a second, the person's brain gets confused. Conscious mind go, what the. And in that second you say sleep. And the conscious, the unconscious mind go, I know that one. And then they go. So it'll take something that it understands because you've created confusion. It's, you see it in lifts. You know, people get in a lift, they look up because that causes trance. Looking up at the numbers count and they're going down 5, 4, 3. And the lift stops. The doors open. They get out because it's automatic. And then they turn around and go, it's not my floor. And then they get back in. Yeah. There's another example of an everyday natural occurring experience where we do it automatically. And if a hypnotist interrupts that automatic program, it's like a glitch in the matrix. It's like that moment of confusion and you give the client something that they can grab hold of, something that they, they know. And that generally is the commander sleep.

It's, it's so interesting because I remember when I saw you. What's the word? Demonstrate it. And you would have, I think it was dawn lady. But you know, like basically be kind of with head on a book and feet on a chair.

Yeah.

And pretty much like you feel like you're levitating. And I could see myself fairly strong with my core, but there's no way I could do that. So you knew it had to be, you know, there was something in it.

You could try it. You could try and do that consciously lying across two chairs. And then physically tense your, the whole body and See how long you can stay there. And I could take the unfittest person in the room, probably me. Okay. With an unengaged core, although I'm working on it. And put me against you, and I'll beat you every single day of the week. If you did it consciously.

Yeah.

Because when someone goes like dawn, in that experience that you attended, she go. Went into her. I did a rapid induction, and then I gave a suggestion to go stiff and rigid. Now, for some guys, that could be really helpful.

Know, just a couple of minutes.

Exactly. I've had many a client come to me with that challenge. And you. You can create a hypnotic suggestion in their mind that every time they experience the desire and the need to get stiff as a board, then they push the button inside their head that goes on.

Sounds like we've got a new product, babe.

Turn on. So, yeah. So Dawn, I did a rapid induction, and then while she's in a trance, like they're standing by the chairs. I put the two chairs out, and then I do what we call ambiguous touch.

Right.

Now, where in hypnosis, there's ambiguous language which causes trance. And you can also do what we call ambiguous touch, which overwhelms the conscious mind. And people go stiff and rigid. It's called full body catalepsy, where 600 plus muscles in the body go rigid. Okay. Used to be a phenomena hundreds of years ago called hysterical paralysis, where people literally couldn't move their arms. And they were. They said it was hysterical paralysis. It's just they were in a trance and they had full rigidity in their muscle group. Now, an everyday experience of that, because, remember, hypnosis is on every day. Everybody's been hypnotized. And I'll come back to the suggestibility thing. For guys, a universal experience is going down the pub and watching the match. And your team's about a score. That is 30 seconds left. That is like a draw. And he's like, come on, come on. You're standing there and you've got your pint in the air, and you're looking up the screen. Come on. And you forget that your arm's still in the air. Right. Rigid. Yeah. You're not. You don't even know your hands in the air. That's an example of arm catalepsy. There are people back in the day that used. Well, we're talking about World War II and Germany and a gentleman by the name of Adolf Hitler using full arm catalepsy as a way. And now whether he did this knowingly or not, I have no Idea. Yeah, it was interesting that people doing the Zikal salute that causes trance.

Yeah.

And then you can give suggestions about doing things that you wouldn't normally do consciously. You see, I see how it fits in mass hypnosis. It's being used all around us and fascinating.

I, I love these because it's such a. Again, I always say we could talk about morning routines and strength conditioning and blah, blah, all the time, but getting into the deeper stuff of psychology, you know, I always want guys to listen to the podcast and I would say you could listen to an hour, but if there's one thing that you go light bulb moment, you know, these kind of things, being aware of what's around you. And I know you and I spoke before, but you know, I noticed very early on, not because I'm an expert, because I listened to people that during like the lockdowns that, you know, the messages that were being put out were basically psychologically manipulating people. And I remember it was Sage who, you know, many of us will know, but they had a document which was presented to Sage calling for an increased perceived threat, you know, using hard hitting emotional messages. And I just wanted for you, like at what point did you see that and think, hold on a minute. Because we see the hands face space, you know, the suggestions of three different things like that, you know, stay home, protect the nhs, save lives.

It was boosted now.

That's it.

All the now now being a modal operator and it's time related now in the moment. It's a suggestion. We use it in hypnosis. Close your eyes now. Three words get boosted now. So were governments using psychological tactics, techniques, strategies? Of course they were. I mean you can go back to Barack Obama if you like and Google on the Internet. Barack Obama, hypnosis. And one of his great speeches he gave in Germany, he was using three words, change. We can. Yes, I remember now, which is linguistically, if you look at that change. What Change. What specifically do you mean by change? Yeah, when you say we, who's we? Is that just the American people? Is it just who is it? So change ambiguous we ambiguous now or no can Modal operator of possibility. Well, if you've got no specifics or details around that you're going to fill in and make something up. Change we can. Yeah, I need a better job, so I'm going to vote for Barrett. So you put your own story around that.

Is it the fact that it also doesn't actually make sense, does it? I mean, no time in your own life, I would guess of Any man listening, and they'd be like, yeah, you know, right, Change we can. And you'd be like, what? But it's like it confuses you as well as having some level of suggestibility.

Get Brexit done.

Yes.

Hands, face space. Get boosted. Now it's hypnosis. Yeah, they're using hypnosis. I know of specific experts in this field that write speeches for people in government or they have done in the past. Don't know if they're doing it now. I've read those speeches. I've used them in our master practitioner of NLP modeling assignments. You know, there's one case of one politician who's no longer a politician, although he's involved still in influencing governments, that wanted to have a standing ovation that was longer than Margaret Thatcher's when she did her last Conservative Party conference. This particular politician wasn't conservative, and he paid a bonus to the scriptwriters if his audience stood for more than her last talk. Isn't that interesting? There's a big ego there. I want a stagnation that was longer than Margaret Thatcher's. Like, great. So, you know his opening statement as we stand here today, I mean, for sake. It's like. It's so obvious if you know what's going on.

I was gonna say, if you can look behind the curtain and see what they're doing.

Yeah, yeah.

So on that, I remember going out to the Tony Robbins event in Miami, which was Date with Destiny and it was the year before they filmed. I am not your guru.

Right.

Which is really interesting. And one of his coaches was a lady who I'd employed to have.

Or.

I got sessions with her through the whole package, and she was great. But what she would do, because she knew I was interested in the behind the curtain stuff, which he'd get me out on the side of the. The room, and she'd say, tony's going to do this now, and the music's going to come now. And he's going to touch them on the shoulder and he's going to. And I realize. I don't mean to say in a negative way. It was scripted, but it was a performance. It was fucking mind blowing.

Yeah.

I realized there's so much to it that can be done with the way that you can be manipulated to have a. Have a feeling.

Yeah, absolutely. And the thing is, all Tony's doing, or any hypnotist, is utilizing what's already there. All human beings have experienced something in their lives that creates feelings, and there will be a memory of it. And then you can use certain words that will trigger the memory and bring back that feeling for them.

Yeah.

So everybody can go into their minds now and imagine a time when they felt really, truly loved. And if, as they imagine that experience, imagine being there then, now in their mind, seeing what they're seeing, hearing what they're hearing, and feeling the feelings as if they were there then, now. And oh, my gardeners have arrived. If you can hear a buzz, forgive me, but I'm not going to tell them to stop. So Tony is using the. The. The art and science of using language in a way that gets people to feel a certain way to their advantage or to his advantage. Now, you know, I remember my wife saying to me once, she said, always, I'm so glad you don't use your skills for evil. You know, trying to, like, keep me grounded, you know?

Yeah.

Oh, my God, I changed this person's life. Yeah. I'm so glad you don't use those skills for evil. Which demonstrates that we have, as human beings a deep understanding of psychology and hypnosis. They've been using hypnosis in governments going back in the day. I have a book on my shelf there by George H. Esther Brooks. It's called Hypnotism. And he wrote it in the 1940s because they were studying orators, okay, People in government and leaders and Adolf Hitler. And how is it that these individuals can get to get people to do things against their will with hypnosis?

Yeah, so. Because I just find that so interesting because then it comes on to the. And you just said, you know, it can be used for good by helping someone overcome a fear or some kind of block, but also it can be used for evil. And I would suggest that what they've done to people's mental health and what they've done to people's perception of their level of threat around them has been escalated wildly. And I know, you know, I've seen different psychologists and. Or, you know, people in that space have kind of accused, let's say, Downing street of using the COVID psychological strategies to create that. A state of, like, heightened anxiety. And we know how much formation psychosis.

I think one. One psychologist was talking about, looking at what the government were doing with their nudge unit. But governments have been doing this since time began, you know, using fear as a way to leverage behavior. So, like, if I went into a hotel tomorrow, went, fire. Jesus Christ. Everybody would run out there, right, because of the fear. They would sense the fear for their life, and their behavior would change. As a direct consequence, even if there wasn't a fire.

Yeah.

So. So we know that we can use language and messaging in a way that installs fear, even if it's not true. The question is, what are the motives of the people advising government? And was there something nefarious going on behind the scenes? I don't know. I. I think a lot of our politicians are so ignorant to that they just get a speech written, they have a meeting and they. This is what you need to do, Boris. Just say these words every day and it'll, it'll affect people's behavior. Let's create some really confusing messages so people don't know what the. If it's left or right, up or down. Yeah, they'll be in a trance.

Because you're reading my notes. Because that's exactly. My next thing was about the confusion and, you know, listening to the people I do, they say if things are deliberately confusing, firstly it creates conflict between people. Because I'd be like, well, Dave, I saw this. You know. No, no, no, no. It said this and, and that confuses people and causes issues. And also just for yourself, because you'll see, one message will say one thing and one will say slightly different.

Yeah.

And is it that your subconscious or your, your mind is. Then I don't know what the fuck's going on.

Well, it's overwhelmed because we can only track a certain amount of information at any one time. And when we get overloaded with mixed messages, it causes the conscious mind to basically leave the room and then we become more suggestible. Because if, if people in government, whether they. Let's not get into the nitty gritty of whether the COVID and pandemic was a setup or not or whatever, I just sit on the fence and go, wow. You know, if you've, if you haven't got a cure for the disease, okay, you've got this idea, possibilities that this could be a leak from a lab or some unknown pathogen that we've never experienced before that seems to be wiping people out within a matter of days. And then you have scientists coming in, giving you worst case scenarios and you go, Jesus Christ, we need to do something. Well, do this, Boris, or do this. The cabinet is get these messages out. It's going to create anxiety. Yeah, but at least people's behaviors would change and they'll stop kissing each other until we've got a handle on this. So is that good or not good? Depends on your perspective, doesn't it?

Yeah. Well, do you know what? And on that, I Spoke to. There's a, let's say journalist, author, writer called Laura Dodsworth, who wrote a book midway through the. The kind of, I think the lockdowns and it was called State of Fear, right. And she. So I spoke to her at a party in London a while ago and told her that it was a really good book and that had really helped me, like you say, look deeper at the, like the government documents just to see. And again, taking us whether you thought it was a good or bad thing, but just realizing how much of it was going on. And that was the thing for me, it was about fear because I know, like, even with the government, you know, they'll always have their, they have their, they have their perceived threat level, which I know is low, moderate, substantial, severe and critical because I Screenshot it from MI5, right? And even now the threat to the UK from terrorism is substantial and they put substantially in capital letters in case you didn't understand what substantial means. But I noticed that the fear levels are low, moderate, substantial, severe and critical. There's never a none. There's always something going on. But I just wanted for you, knowing what you do about the mind. What does fear do to people?

It changes their biochemistry. Fear. Well, you've heard the saying, some people in, say in the corporate world or in, in any world, they're motivated by sticks or carrots. I used to run a sales team and some of the chaps and ladies were motivated by deadlines and fear of failure. So you could amplify that a little bit. Well, can you imagine what it'd be like if you're the only person doesn't hit your target? That seemed to work for some, did that to others who were motivated by carrots. They'd be up and gone. So I guess when we're messaging to the public, we've got to incorporate carrots, sticks, future, paste a possible tragic scenarios. So you're building this picture of something that's not real because it's a separate reality. Everybody's in their own reality and everybody's creating their own experience. But fear, I remember. So let me sort of talk to that. I did a training. Well, I've done so many trainings, but with a guy called Dr. Richard Bandler years and years ago, and someone said, why is it, why isn't this solution working? Well, I keep offering solutions and carrots to my team. He said, well, everybody needs a bit of push and pull, right? Everybody needs a carrot and a little bit of stick or more stick and a little bit of carrot and that way you're going to ensure that you're communicating and messaging to everybody's what we call meta programs. Are you motivated with fear, pain or you motivated with pleasure? Which would be Tony Robbins approach. Everyone's motivated by fear, pain or pleasure. And everybody's doing their best to avoid pain, hence create pain in the, in the British public's minds or anybody's minds. And they'll do everything they can to move away from it and then offer them a pizza for an injection, you know, there's a carrot. So was it necessary or not? I, I don't know. But are people suggestible? Going full loop back to that question. How suggestible are you? Everybody is every single person on planet Earth. Now we have a scale in hypnosis and that scale is from 0 to 100 of the population. Let's take that as a. And we split it into three. 20%, 60% and 20%. So 20% of people without any training, without any guidance, you can get them to drop into deep hypnotic states where you could do open heart surgery. Wow, okay. Where they, you could induce no pain, have their eyes open, change their biochemistry, their heart rate, it's pretty phenomenal. 20% of the population can go are what we would call sonambalists, sleepwalkers, sleep talkers. People have a drink, maybe only have three or four pints and can't remember anything about the day. Again, alcohol is a trans inducing substance, alters your neurology. And a lot of people, people watch this podcast, if anything like the guys that I hang around with, have had an occasion in their life where they had a little bit too much and couldn't remember a bloody thing that happened the night before. Well what was that? Where you were hypnotized. That's why you got on stage and doing pole dancing without any clothes on. Really? What I was doing that? Yes.

Oh, you saw that?

Yeah, I was there that night? Yeah. What happened? Well, you got drunk, your conscious mind was so overloaded it left the room and you went into a, an alcohol induced trance and performed hypnotic, bizarre hypnotic behaviors like dancing on stage, slurring your words, not remembering the last conversation you had. That's 20% of the population can go there without any training. 60% with a little bit of guidance, messaging, suggestion and repetition over time will find deep trance. We'll be able to go into a deep trance and then 20% find it difficult, but they can all go, just need a little bit more effort. So that's why when the government messaging goes out, there's a Percentage of the population that are awake and going, working on me. I can feel myself going. I keep watching the BBC. What's happening? Oh my God. Oh, Jesus Christ. I was going into a trance and they snap out of it and then they, their critical faculty comes back in and they maybe start questioning and chat.

That's where, I mean, we talk about our kids not watching TV and certainly not normal tv. Like we'll allow them to watch some stuff where it's, you know, they might be watching how tractors get put together or animals and stuff like that.

That's because you live in, near the farms now, don't you?

Yeah. You know, two boys and they're interested in machinery and building and stuff. What, what a surprise. But with them it's amazing because I'll walk in and of course they'll both be sitting there just completely open mouth and in a trance. And I don't think I ever noticed it until I worked with you and read more and learned that. I realized that we all do it. And even with kids tv, I find myself, if I was sitting there, Emma will bring in like a cup of coffee or something and she'll look at me and she'll say something and I realize that I'm just sitting, you know, I'm not even watching the actual program because it's some kids telly. But it's the hypnotic nature of the, the, the, the waves that are coming out.

Yeah. Yes. You know what happens, all the best film producers and yeah, someone like Steven Spielberg, they understand hypnosis. They know that within the first 5 to 15 seconds of someone sitting down in their seat at the IMAX will go into a trance.

Right.

Like Jaws. Here's a prime example because I was thinking of Steven Spielberg, Jaws the movie, and I wrote about it in Joyride as an example of how the mind works. Now back in the day, in the 1970s when the premiere of Jaws was over on the, at the premiere in the States, I can't remember when in, in LA, I think 2 or 3 of the audience members passed out right. In the opening sequence of Jaws. Literally got up, oh, I can't watch this. Got out, bang, hit the floor, hit the deck, came around, ended up getting psychotherapy, psychology, counseling, whatever it might, words you want to use. And they were asked the question, so what happened? Oh, I was sitting in the opening sequence of Jaws and this girl, you just saw a silhouette, she took her clothes off, you just saw the silhouette of her. And she goes swimming in the, in the ocean. And it was sort of dusk and there was a bell in the distance going. And everyone was really silent. And then all. All of a. All of a sudden we had. And the next thing I know, there's blood and guts everywhere. This woman's. And she goes under the water. And it was. Oh, it was tragic. And this shark came and eta. This is a prime example of how hypnosis, even in a cinema, can make yourself so scared that you pass out. That's how powerful hypnosis is. Because, you see, here's the thing that most people don't actually know. In the opening sequence of Jaws, Steven Spielberg was going to have the shark in it. And it was a mechanical shot. They didn't have CGI in the way they do now.

Yeah.

So they had a robotic shark, and every time they put it in salt water, it broke down.

They're like Tesla's. Yeah.

So. So they had to create this opening sequence and they had no shark. So they used their cinema photography and their. Their knowing of how to captivate and hold an audience. There was no blood, there was no shark. In the opening sequence, you just saw this silhouette of a woman and then her go under the water. So these people that passed out were getting psychology. They were. They passed out, were getting counseling for something that never freaking happened. Apart from they've just been in their mind.

But in their mind, I guess. Right.

Well, here's how it. Here's. Here's my theory on it. I haven't tested this, so I don't know if it's true, but if there was no shark in the opening sequence of Jaws and they passed out and described seeing blood and guts and this massive shark come up and eat her, what happened? Well, they were standing in the queue at the premiere and on one of the walls where they advertise what movies. Come on. There's this big picture of a freaking shark on the clearing. Clear blue water, coming up to a woman swinging on the top.

Yeah.

I don't know if you remember the poster for George. That's what they imagined. So they hallucinated using their minds. They created a separate reality and scared themselves almost to death.

I just. I find it fascinating. What it. What it reminds me is, you know, to be aware so much of, like, what you're consuming even without realizing it around you. I mean, that, you know, that for me, I think in the last, you know, going on to government messaging or even sales, you know, forgetting government messaging, but on sales and things like that.

Yeah.

You know, when you're scrolling Instagram and of course, we know now Our phones are listening to us all the time because you and I know if I talked about camping now when I turn my phone on, oh it magically listens. But you know, when you're, when you're scrolling I always think that's, you know, not only you being manipulated visually but psychologically. You've got these, you know, apparatus that are listening to you all the time. But I was going to ask you also about. I know you've, I know I've taken your courses and the new one for you is the innate well being practitioner. Why don't you tell us about that? Because I think it's. When I was reading about it, I just thought it was such a good way to help more people. Help more people. If that makes sense.

Yeah, yeah, sorry, I'm just cleaning my glasses. Okay. So for the last 20, 30 years, since I got into this, this field, UK because I was in it before that as you know, worked for the MD of Apple back in the day and he set up his own business and then I traveled around the world and I was tired of the corporate bit like you and I thought that's it, I want to get out. Was fascinated with psychology. I'd already trained in hypnosis and one day the company was really struggling and they said oh, we can't afford to pay you the tens of thousands we owe you in commissions because I was in sales as well and that they, I agreed that I say if you settle 50% of what you owe me, I'll be gone tomorrow if you want because I was already had my mind on being elsewhere. Anyway they agreed. I was like right, well I've got in there before they ran out of cash and I'm going to become a coach. So I went and trained in the various other disciplines and I ended up was never my intention but teaching and training coaches I guess over the years and to the levels that I've been in, been at that was the natural progression to ultimately go from coach to trainer, master trainer. So training trainers and during the pandemic I launched some of my courses online and attracted about a hundred thousand students have invested in one of my programs over the last 24 months. 30 months and I, I was in America in March and I woke up one morning and went do you know what? I don't really feel like I'm serving my community to the best of my ability.

What did that feel like?

Well, that I'm not serving them to the best of my ability. It's a good question. I hadn't considered It I was serving the people that were doing my high end programs and then I noticed that there was a downward uptake on some of the programs and I thought this needs to be fresh. I was a bit frustrated, to be honest with you, because a lot of people that join my programs don't complete them. When we speak to them, it's not because they're lazy or anything like that. It's just that, how can I say? They came to the program not necessarily to be a coach. They said they want to be a coach, but when you drill down into it, they really wanted to change something about their experience of life right under the auspices. I want to be a coach. So I decided after speaking with the team that when I woke up in America on holiday at Easter, I said to Ann, I said, I've got to put on an event, an event for the people that just do my digital courses because there's no proximity. They've had no contact with me apart from emails. Yes. Whereas the people who have invested thousands to be with me, they get my time regularly like this, in this medium and in training rooms face to face. Now that we can do that. And it was just a thought and it excited me. So at first I was disappointed that people aren't completing their, or going out and doing coaching a small, small portion. And then after questioning and, and thinking about it and reflecting, I thought I want to change direction. I want to move from training coaches to actually teaching anybody. Guys, ladies, anybody that is interested in transcending their challenges. Doesn't matter what the challenges are. Depression, anxiety, addictions, body images, issues with their body image, lack of motivation. You say, oh, I can't get down to the gym to work. A bit cold. Well, I. Teaching people how the mind really works, not concepts.

Yeah.

Not theories or, or models, but truth. See, there's a fundamental difference to, between what I used to do with hypnosis and NLP and coaching models and theories and teaching coaches how to do that. There's a fundamental difference between that and teaching them the principles behind all of that. The principle, the fundamental principles. A bit like if I was building an airplane and I was good at building planes and I was teaching people how to, you know, like Meccano. This is how you build an airplane. Get in and fly it. If I don't, or if they don't understand the principles behind flight, it ain't going to get off the ground, no matter how pretty it looks. If you haven't taken into consideration lift, elevation, thrust, speed, gravity, which is a principle. If you don't understand the principles, then you're really, you're working from something that's built on sand, like a house built on sand, flaky foundations. Okay. Whereas if you understand, hey, there are only three principles behind the human experience. And if you really not intellectually understand, but understand through experience realization, then that will change your whole life. Because everything that human beings experience is a direct consequence of these three principles working in harmony like a trinity, creating the human experience. So I decided, Andy, for the story short, I woke up going to be in service to anybody that buys my site. Anybody, whether that be this medium, podcast, radio shows, tv, it doesn't matter what it is, and just share what I know and understand and be in service. And that sort of morphed into. Right. Running an event which was a couple of weeks ago, I think there was 1,260 people registered.

Yep.

And at the end of it I said, look, I'm going in a new direction. I'm creating a certified program and instead of training you to be a coach, I'm going to be teaching people who join my program how to teach, facilitate and share this understanding to anybody, even if they don't want coaching. So it could be a team meeting at, I don't know, Credit Suisse. Right now they're in a bit of a tough time.

They're going to need it.

They're going to need it. They might be stressed out of their minds out there. They don't need coaching. They really need to understand what causes stress and it's not the current state of the bank and what's going on in their world. It's because of these principles at play. And when people understand that they become more like Teflon. They still have the challenges, they still work and experience day to day life and curveballs and downs and ups and downs, but they become more like Teflon.

Yeah.

Because those challenges, they don't, they're not sticky anymore.

I'm sure enough guys could do with that. You know, we, we cover in the Energy Protocol course and one of the weeks is about mindset. And I tried to, I remember sitting and you know, I spoke to yourself and John about it of like how I could give them the, you know, most bang for your buck of the most simple thing I could that I found that was really effective.

Yeah.

I was trying, you know, you know, try and get across to people that if you can get your mindset sorted, then that's like, that's unlocking the door to everything else. Whereas if you haven't Got your mindset sorted. I mean, you and I know people that have got loads of money but are really upset about something else in their life. You'll know people that have got no money, that are really happy because they're content with what they've got. Some people it's illness, some people it's job, etc, and that's one of the big things, is if you can start working on your. Your inner self, then hopefully the outer self will start kind of taking care of itself.

And see, the thing is, the people working on the outer stuff to try and get the inner stuff to feel better, okay, that's like pissing in the wind. There's no point. It's a waste of energy, waste of time. You will never, ever experience a joyful life if you're trying to control the outside world to meet your personal expectations, what you think needs to be in place to be happy. Yeah, it's not possible, it's impossible because that's not how we work. This is what's so beautiful about this understanding. Because I can ask anybody in any field, in any, doesn't matter who they are, how much money they've got, what their challenge is. They'll bring me a challenge. Oh, I can't motivate myself to get to the gym. Okay, what's causing that? Well, I'm so busy at work.

Really.

That's not the cause. The cause is one of the principles are in play. You're having a thought, you're feeling what you're thinking and you're acting on it or not acting on it. You go, oh, I've got a lot of work. I feel stressed. I need to sit at my desk. No, you need to get down the gym and forget about work for five minutes. And you just might find you feel freaking better after it. And you'll be able to get the work done because you've not paid attention to what you were thinking. So the people that. So, for example, like, because you're in, you're very much into health and fitness and clean living, clean eating. And I'm sure you get people to come come to you and say, anthony, like, can you hire me? I want you to be my coach because I want to go from, you know, couch to 5K and drop a stone and tone up sometimes.

It's one of the guys that approached me just said, he basically said, I just want to look good in a T shirt because he knew he was on stage and presented. And you're like, okay, let's dig deeper.

So, yeah, so that that's so. And let me talk from personal experience. So I've been in and out of the gym for years. I used to be fit, young, 20, 30 something and then got married, got sit down job, ate a lot of donuts, drank a lot and never really looked after my physical look and feel. I had a go here and there. But I decided because I, since this change in trajectory and, and, and saying I want to be in service as opposed to training coaches, I've had a lot of opportunities just appear. It's funny when you change your mindset and I'm thinking, well, if I'm going to be on stage to 30 or thousand people at this particular, for this particular opportunity that might come to fruition, I really need to, to look good in a T shirt. Yeah, so. So, so for the last three weeks I hired a coach because I think it's a good thing, have someone that you're accountable, accountable to. And I never had. He, he trains people on the Mission Impossible set. So I've only been with him for three weeks, dropped seven pounds and now the last, what about three weeks? Eight sessions with him in three weeks, got another one tomorrow. And he said to me, he said, have you ever not, have you not wanted to come here for any of this session? I said, yeah, today, I really didn't want to come here today.

At least you're honest.

How did you, how did you get motivated to do it? I went, I just ignored the thoughts that I don't want to go because they ain't real. Even though I wanted to pay attention to them and I didn't feel like motivated, I felt lethargic. Do you know what felt amazing afterwards? So I know now because of this understanding and everybody who gets this understanding that we can get hoodwinked by irrelevant thoughts. And 99 of the thoughts that come into everybody's heads are totally irrelevant. Yeah, totally relevant. If they understood the nature of thought, they could just allow the thought to leave now another one might come. But that's all we ever, ever experience. Human beings only, only experience the feelings of what they're thinking in the moment. And it's not coming from the outside world that will protect people. It will stop people taking their lives. Yeah, it stops it. People become being too serious because serious in my view is an illness. Right. And it as I say, like for example, with you or anyone in your community that listens to this or anyone not in our community is listen to say who's in personal development. So my trainer, like he worked, I think he's working with like Simon Pegg, you know, some Pegg mission possible. And he goes on set with. With someone like Tom Cruise. Tom Cruise has like machines there on set worth 40 grand resistance that resists both ways. He said, oh, your three sets of 15 dumbbells, Dave. Tom will, you know, Tom Cruise will just need to do one set.

Yeah.

Which is the equivalent of three. And then after that someone go, yeah, Tom, have something to eat. So he's actually doesn't have to do any thinking and it's all done for him. That would be so much easier.

Yeah.

But I said to him, I said, so what, what are you. What's the plan? This is the beginning. Said, well, you know, we're going to track everything that you eat. Everything. Oh my God. Macro level, protein. Right. Carbs. But you're not on a diet. I just want you to eat like you normally eat and then we'll see.

More mindful, doesn't it? To be like, hold on a minute, I didn't realize that had zero or loads of protein and now I can eat more or less of it.

Oh, man. Like my protein. I can't eat enough. I'm chicken protein shake. I'm still only halfway there. This is crazy. But I'm loving the feeling. I've got the energy back. In three weeks, my heart rate's come down. And he said to me, he said, you seem really inspired and motivated. I said, well, I'm like any other person. But if you don't have solid foundations as someone that you take on as a client, if they don't understand how their minds work and you ask them to fill in a food diary and then what's your biggest challenge? Is that people not filling in their food diary, if they don't understand how the mind works, they're just going to come up with all the reasons and excuses and you're going to have another failed client. In other words, someone that doesn't achieve their goal. Souls. So solid foundations, deep understanding of your mindset. Absolutely. And understanding those three principles that are working 24 hours a day, seven days a week, creating that experience. And that I think for me is what I've got on offer now to anybody that comes my way as opposed to going, do you want to be a coach? No, I don't. All right. They're depressed and suffering. That's. That's not my thing. Now it is.

Well, I know when I, you know, heard the concept, I was like, it nailed it. Also because I know we said the male, female divide. Maybe for you and, and for me, and how I see it is a lot of the men that want to be coaches is because they need to provide and they would like a, you know, whether it's a six figure salary or not. But the point is they need a monetary return on it. They might want it to be impactful, but also guess what, they've got bills to pay. Whereas maybe some of the women who are taking it, who also maybe their husbands are at work or have you. They want it to help people, not necessarily to bring a revenue stream in.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, looking at the innate well being, about 70% are women.

Right.

At the program lot, most of them want to be in service teaching to children, teenagers. Others just have no idea. But would like to take this out into the corporate world. I think this understanding, if it was to spread like, you know, across the UK, top, I don't know, 1,000 companies, if every CEO, every board of directors really understood how human beings, psychological experience is created via the gift of these three principles of mind, consciousness and thought and how they work together, then, and then we're to disseminate, teach, provide training to all members of the team. Doesn't matter what level you're in, what role you're in, what you'll find is the performance of that organization will just skyrocket because people won't be suffering with their mental health if they're having a down day. They'll know what's going on because of the, the nature of thought and moods and how the quality of our thinking changes based on our level of consciousness. Less time, less time off, people will be more creative, people will be happier, the feeling will be great. People will understand their colleagues when they're venting on them. He's having a go. Yeah, he's just having a moment. He's just lost in thought. He's just drifted out of his lane a bit. He'll be back on board in a moment. As opposed to taking it personally. Oh, you made me feel bad. Which again is where you're as bad as the next person. Because if you think someone else made you feel bad, you've just been hoodwinked. You've been hoodwinked by your own thinking. Because that is an impossibility and it's not how the world works. That's why one person can say terrible things to 10 people and two of those people will go, he's just in a bad mood, I'm all right.

That's one of the big things with, at the moment we're seeing Dave is You know, with censorship. And I know we'll type in a minute because I know you've got stuff to do, but you know how it's that, well, that's offended people by saying this or that or an opinion. And again, you realize that, you know, once you've put an opinion out there, it's up to someone else if they want to be offended by or not.

Oh, and all this backtracking we see on Twitter and say, I'm really sorry I said that. I'm like, you said what you were thinking in the moment. And if other people are affected by it, it's not your problem. But unfortunately, if you're a celebrity or you're high profile, well, it is your problem because now you've got to deal with all the trolls and the people saying, you made me feel bad. I'm like, well, hell, seriously, if I made you feel bad by something like that, the rest of your life you're going to be controlled by what other people say. Good luck with that one, because you are not going to be happy.

That is. That's exactly what I wrote about a few weeks ago, where I said, you know, in danger of. Let's call it the. The young guys growing up who are in their teens and twenties, if they think that. That they're going to go through life without anything being said to them that they feel is unkind. And if that happens, they can't handle it, then they're. Because especially when you work in the city or in sales or anything, you're.

Gonna have life in life, anywhere in life, you cannot control other people. Other human beings will be judging all the time. Judgment, opinions, agreement, disagreement. Because everybody's living in a separate reality. And what my life experience and my reality and how I think in my world is mine and mine alone as yours is yours. And if I share something that's going through my mind, like, well, don't lie Andy's shirt and I, it just happens to pop out of my mouth, or I don't like his necklace. Right. You could be offended or not offended. It's entirely up to you. But it's just my thought, and I just shared it. And some people say, well, you shouldn't share your thoughts. So it's like, which ones?

Yeah.

Which thoughts should I not share with you? Yeah, because, like, I don't want to make you unhappy. Now, here's the problem with that. That the world is going to be living on tenderhooks, walking on eggshells, worried that, oh, if I say this, it'll offend that person, but that person will laugh. Comedians and jokes and I mean, it's like the world to me feels like it's lost. Human beings are lost looking in the total wrong direction of what creates their experience. And they go, you made me feel that way. And what they don't realize is when they're pointing, there's always three fingers pointing back at them and they haven't seen. Yes. Like, my boss made me upset. Your boss was harsh. Your boss's voice was loud. He maybe said things to you that maybe society deems to be inappropriate. And you're suffering because of that. Well, no, you're not. You're suffering because of all the ideas you have about how he or she should have spoken to you. You're suffering because of the. What you doing inside your mind about what was said. And that's your problem. Nothing to do with your boss. If you could come to terms with what's happening inside your mind and all feelings are coming just from that, then you're going to do well in life. You're going to transcend problems easily. You'll be more like Teflon. You'll. You'll calm down, your mind will settle. You won't be certain you're out. Yeah, you'll be a pleasure to be around as well. And you'll be more forgiving of your boss when they have a moment because you'll go, they're lost in thought. They're reacting to their thinking. They're reacting to my behavior. I did this report and I made a mistake and now they're freaking out. They're not freaking out the mistake I made in the report. They're freaking out because they think they look bad or they're freaking out because they're going, oh, what about going to explain to the board because I told them we were going to hit our target this month and we're 70% off. I feel bad and I'm angry at you, but they're angry at you because of what they're doing in their head and nothing to do with the report. Do you see what I'm saying there? I'm pointing to.

I think that's so much especially when you talk about in business. And kind of one example of that would be what with a couple of the younger guys who would be on Yahoo to different traders. And of course they'd have to understand that if a trader just sent back yes or no, it wasn't because they didn't want to say please, I thank you. They're being Short, they're fucking busy or they're stressed and maybe they've just lost a load of money. Where they'd be like, oh, giving one word answers. What a twat. And I'd be like, really? Yeah. Does that. Does it matter? Like, he's. He projected the message. He wanted in as shorter characters as he needs to. But you'll take offense because he hasn't, you know.

But what I hear there, Anthony, is, let's say this is a true, true person that you obviously have that experience.

Yeah.

Straight away, what I hear is, young lady, set of rules on how he should be spoken to. And someone else didn't meet the rules. Now, I would go to them and say, did you tell the trader that's how you want to be spoken to? And they'll go, no. I said, well, how the. Are they supposed to read your mind? They're not. Mind reader. This is something that happens at home in the relationship, is it? My wife goes, you're not stacking the dishwasher very well. Go. You're getting annoyed at something. I didn't. What are the rules? We've got put the knives down, not up. Oh, I didn't know that rule. See, I put them up the other way around. She has them up and I put them down. So. But what I'm saying is we didn't come to a state of understanding until we both shared our personal rules for how we stack the dishwasher. Human beings go all the way around the world with these ideas and stories about how things should be. Somebody else doesn't meet it. Like, for example, in the car. I used to get really road rage. Now I just think it's quite amusing. I don't get affected by that. But, you know, the other day, I don't know, someone flashed their lights at the car in front because they probably didn't wave and say, thanks for letting me through. And then the person in the car gets annoyed and starts hooting and sharing and giving the V sign or whatever it is. I'm like, hang on a minute. So you have a rule of how it should be? Well, shouldn't everybody know that? Etiquette? Well, they're probably in a trance, like, thinking about work. They didn't even notice you. But we got such big egos, haven't we, that, yeah, everyone should be how we want them to be. Let's just. Good luck with that one. How's that working out for you?

I tell you, I love it because I realized there's so much of all these things I Mean, we had more of a list of things to get through. But it's so good to delve deep into things and unpack.

We'll do another one if you want. I love these conversations because it can be helpful to people. Right.

I think especially for us too, guys, resonating with the message we're putting across to the whole man academy about you know, not being offended by what other people say and your, you know, someone else's opinion of you is none of your business. Things like that to just change the way they're thinking about how they're going through life.

But they are cliches, aren't they? But that's a night. They're nice ideas. Not reacting to how other people behave towards you or if you do react or maybe overreact, you, you see it later down the road and you become more humble. Bit of humility, you might apologize. Sorry, I was just lost in thought. I lost my rag a minute. I was, you know, I got carried away. Whereas you tend to find that people that don't have an understanding, well, they'll be forever triggered by the outside world and they'll never find peace of mind. Mind, they'll never be calm, ever. So it's a nice idea to control your state. When someone speaks to you in a way that gives you the energy of wanting to punch them in the face, but is that energy isn't coming from them.

Yeah.

If you can just see that this one call, just see that your anger, rage, insecurity, annoyance, judgment, that feeling is connected to just your thinking, nothing else. Even though it really looks like the other people have wound you up, it just doesn't work that way. So liberating. Anthony.

That's what I was going to say is I think when you get it and I know, you know, I had a light bulb moment years ago when I realized that basically it was up to me how I feel. And you know, how your thoughts coming in, you can't control them, but you control how you rectum and stuff. And it seems so simple once I got it and it. And it transformed my life and how I react to kids issues, what have you. And I'm like, you'd be amazed how much more stuff I can cope with, if you want to call it that now.

Yeah.

Than before because I have that understanding. But I, I have you to thank for that, basically.

You're welcome, mate. And you know, here's the thing. Anybody who really understands this and really generally has an insight and goes, oh my God, yeah, my feelings are coming from What I'm thinking, nothing to do with what she said or he said or they did. Generally see it, not intellectualize what we've said on this call, but actually see it in real time. You get an angry feeling and having the understanding isn't going to stop you getting pissed off. It's not going to stop you being human. But what it does seem to do, it creates lag time between the feeling that you have of rage or pissed offness, whatever word you want to put an actor, your behavior. So behavior, feeling, thinking, that's it. That's all you need to know. It's enough to get you through the rest of your life. If you generally know what I'm pointing to is truth and not a concept. It's not a technique, it's not a strategy. It's just the nature of how the mind works. And the transient nature of thought is the most, what's the word? Underestimated part of the human experience. And thoughts create things.

It's a good one to finish on as a reminder for guys that there's always work to be done on your own mindset and, and how it can affect, you know, the people around you as well. Now Dave, how can people get hold of you if they're interested in exploring more about what you do? What's the best way?

David key.com yeah, this book, joyride, joyride, three principles, infinite potential. So joyride, one life. Three principles, infinite potential. You can read that davidkey.com There is a Contact Us page if you want to reach out to me. You can go to Contact Us and log a ticket. My support team get it and then I'll get the message. Watch out on Facebook. We're doing a lot of promos at the moment for other courses.

Yeah, well I'll put the, I'll put your website and stuff on the show notes so it makes it. I know there's that I said on the previous podcast a guy who does branding that I know said there's a good, good book called don't make me Think which is, you know, just, just, just make it simple for people to follow or to connect or something like that. So I'll put that on there.

Yeah, I have programs people can do if they're interested. I've got group programs and I do one to one work. Not so much because you know, I've got a full schedule with other things and but yeah, I do work with some individuals who are suffering.

Well, it won't be the last time, I'm sure for the guys that follow the whole man academy that you hear from Dave.

I'd love to.

We'll hopefully do together. I will let you go and I will speak to you soon. Thanks Dave.

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