EP121 - RICK COOPER - THE UNTAMED MAN | WHOLE MAN ACADEMY

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Are you ready? Okay, guys, Happy New Year. I hope you've had a good festive time, not got too fat and not been too lazy over the festive period. But we are back with some powerful podcasts. First one is Rick Cooper. Now, Rick was on our podcast about a year ago actually, and he's got some really powerful content, really great ideas, and I thought I'd bring him back on to kick the year off with something that I'll describe with some good, real talk. But before we jump into that huge reminder, if you haven't already, sign up for a game changing weekly E Letter goes out to hundreds of men around the world across the world on a Monday, Wednesday and Friday is www.wholemanacademy.com movement or the link will be in the show notes below. Right, let's jump in. Okay, so this is the Whole Man Academy podcast, episode 121, in theory, all being well, the first one of 2023. So happy new Year. Welcome to all new listeners, especially after Neil Kramer podcast that went bonkers because everybody loved the content in it. My guest today, some of you will recognize his beautiful head, beautiful face and crazy jumper is Rick Cooper, men's performance and lifestyle coach. Rick, first of all, how are you and where are you, mate?

Mate, I'm all good. Thank you for the intro. I am at home in West Sussex. Just been for a lovely walk with someone this morning, which is just nice to get out and just see people because you know what it's like we just spoke about off there. Like when you're on, on your home, at home, on your own, you end up becoming more reclusive, more detached. And even though we convince ourselves we're connected, we're definitely not.

You know, you've, there's several ways that, I mean, we want to talk about this, but in, even in the last few weeks, I've seen where more companies are saying how great it is that people can work from home and we always know there's the plus and, you know, pluses and negatives of all that. But again, a Lot of the guys I've spoke to have had that. And I feel it myself sometimes where, you know, you're missing out on the connections of going out, grabbing a coffee, getting lunch, talking to colleagues and stuff. And especially when, I mean, we said about it as well, but when like the weather's like this, I mean, it's, it's pretty bleak where we are anyway. So I always encourage guys, you forget how important it is to get out and have, you know, either a laugh with someone, grab a coffee or something out. Latest Whole Man Academy dinner was what, two and a half weeks ago now? And we had 12, 13, whatever it was, guys there. And some of them said the same, like, it doesn't matter how much money you've got in the bank and everything else that's going on, if you're sitting at home all day, you can very easily become like slightly reclusive without even noticing it. So I just want to view. Is that what you've found? Especially since you've been kind of more at home?

Oh, my God, yeah, like 100%. Like, I've. I love people. Like, I'm a kinesthetic guy. I like touch, I like eye contact, you know, like, and even now, like, I'm on the call and part of me inside wants to smash the screen because I'm like, I want a proper conversation with you. Like, I want to see you, I want to see your skin, I want to see your eyes. I want to, when we talk, you know, like we've been together in person, I want to like, you know, touch your shoulder or, you know, whatever it is. And it's just, you know, what we are primitively, we're made to be together. And this last two or three years and how it is now isn't been about two or three years. It's been about the last 20 years of messaging.

Yes. Yeah, the slow build up, the slope.

Yeah, 100% like, the 20, 30 years slow build up. Like, this last two or three years wasn't by chance. This has been going on and going on and going on, this like, deliberate detachment of human contact, of. Of manipulation of the brain by so many sources. And it's so intricate. It's so intricate and on such mass. And it'd be hard for us to sit here for even five hours, break it down, sect, break down, to let people understand, even those who would listen and go, I'll off. Like, what are you two talking about? This is the best thing ever. Like, for us, it'll take five or six hours, just for that person to go, oh, actually that's not a point. Just think about, yeah, now, now they've actually just completely broke everything down. But yeah, and it's like we said earlier, a lot of time, like I ain't got the energy to try and convert the unconverted.

Yeah, it's so. And I always use the term like we're walking towards her or sleepwalking to a contactless society. And last week or the week before and it's now been on, it was on Sky News, it was in various newspapers. The Oxford City are going to be one of the first cities to implement 15 minute districts. Sounds great. And their thought is that everything you'll need will be within 15 minutes. Which again, I love the way that with so many things in life, things that aren't great, they package them up in a good way. So people that won't bother to think about it will just go, hey, that sounds cool. Give me that, give me those drugs, give me whatever it is that you've got not understanding what the consequences are. And here's what I think was the big part of that for me is because it's local to you, more people I know can pay attention to it, whereas when it's far away, it's easy to kind of go, oh, that's going on over there. Good example is there's a, there's a saying I heard which is one death is a tragedy and a million deaths is a statistic. And a lot of people now, if someone dies locally to them, you know, they're close to, it's. It kind of consumes them, rightly so, for grief. But if you heard on the news that a million people died in another country, it's like, oh, that's terrible. But anyway, what's for lunch? And they, and they move on. And this was the thing with the Oxford Cities, the counselor, who is a guy called Duncan Enright, I think I've got that right. What a SAP of a man. And he was talking in Chippy Norton. So I went along there with a big group of people like two or three weeks ago and spoke to him very briefly. But they basically said, well, it's happening anyway, so there's no point, you lot, I mean, it's quoted in, I think one of the newspapers saying, well, it's going to happen anyway, so it doesn't really matter what you think. And it's a great example of some people wouldn't even care less if their freedoms were curtailed. And what that will do is they will allow you to leave your district 100 times a year and after that you will get fined, basically. So they'll have.

Hold on a minute, what do you mean they will allow you to leave?

Yeah.

So you'll.

They'll have like. Because they'll be sectioned into districts, you'll have like electronic gates and obviously the cameras will be. And they don't even have to have gates because as long as you've got electronic, like some kind of recognition of cars, you would register your vehicles and therefore every time you go in and out, it tracks what you're doing, obviously. And. And if you go out over there allotted amount of times, then they will find you, basically. So you're allowed out 100 times, up to 100 times a year. And a lot of people have gone, no, what? Hey, that's. They won't do that. And you go, no, they are. I've been to the meetings, I've seen the council's own documents and here's my point here, it's very easy. So I went along to it and stood and looked at this guy and I mean, I'm guessing his testosterone is very low. Nothing to do with it. But he doesn't sound like something that inspires me that he's doing good for the people. He's either brainwashed or he's stupid or he's a liar. I don't know which one is. But here's my point. For men listening, you need to start looking at your own community first and seeing what you can do for it. I mean, I've got friends who have said, or a friend of a friend who said, oh, my son wants to go away to Ukraine and fight. And I said, really? Does he even know where Ukraine is on the map? Well, no, but he's going to go away. And I said, listen, that great, very noble cause. What does he do in his own community? Well, nothing. Well, why don't you start with your local area and see what you can do there before you decide to go and, you know, save the world and probably just get killed within two minutes elsewhere. And I see that so much now that people will support the latest thing with no understanding of the background behind it. And we shall see with the Oxford cities, I'll be writing about it on the whole Man Academy letter, because it won't stop at Oxford. I'll give you a clue. It will be rolled out to all other cities and before you know it, you go, I'm just popping out. And you go, oh, not today. Why not? Well, because you've Already been out too many times this year, and you go, ah, so keep a look out for that one, Rick. I know we could go down many rabbit holes, but let's. Let's talk about. I mean, you've set up some good stuff this year. So you've got the Untamed man, the Wolfpack, Men's Community, and Boy to Manhood. So let's start with the Untamed man, because, of course, I know firsthand what that's like. Where did that come from? What was the idea?

That's a really good question. Untamed man just developed as an idea about two years ago. I wanted a space for men to come together. I felt that the men's space or the messaging was very effeminate. It might cause some controversy. But if you hear me out, I feel like the movement is constantly about this toxic masculinity, which I don't believe exists. I think there's toxic behavior. There isn't toxic masculinity in the scientific data, the biology report, everything signifies that it is a false movement. And I sat there and it's all about basically feminizing men. And it was getting to a point where I'm like, everybody and every member's retreat I've been on, he's like, oh, you need to look at becoming more feminine and softer and all this shit. And it just wasn't sitting right. It wasn't sitting right with me. And I couldn't figure out why. You know, I just knew that I liked. I liked feeling, like a spunky man. Like, I like feeling, like, inspirational. I like being in my body. I like being around other men and kinesthetically inspiring. It brings out the best in me. And I'm like, I don't like how other men in this space. And as a generalization, like, some women are like, oh, we want more softness. You need to be more feminine. And. And I was just like, hold on a minute. Are they people that I would want to listen to? Are you people that I trust? When do I hear from you? What influence do you have on my life? What influence are you having in your communities, in your world? Like, what is this about? And I suddenly was just like, fuck this. I'm going to design something where men can lean in to being fierce and powerful and expressive. Because I think I looked at it with a bit of a. What you call it, a magnifying glass.

Yes.

And I was like, do you know what that's wrong with all this? The movement, the messaging is completely wrong. It's the Polar opposite. We need. The messaging needs to be we need men, or we men are yearning to fuck to be men again. And what is that? What is that? It's the beautiful masculine energy that we keep denying and making it really healthy, really powerful. And what is that? Healthy masculinity. And men being fiercely passionate, again, means to be disciplined, means to have courage, means to have bravery. It means to find an edge. It means to look for responsibility rather than keep looking of ways not to have responsibility. It, you know, it's all these beautiful qualities that just doesn't get put out as a message. It's like, oh, if you're passionate, if you're, you know, overzealous in being those things, are you a bad man? Like, if you're wild and this is one thing, and this is your thing that came from. Come back to make your question and is the part the untamed man is for men to lean back into their wild man. Like, every man wants to be wild. But the marketing, the PR stunt around becoming wild for the last 70 years has all been around. To be wild means to be reckless. It means to be unpredictable. It means to be aggressive. It means that we can't control you. And I'm like, that doesn't. That's not what wild is. Yeah, wild is about knowing where you're going. And it means passionately and fiercely following that path. It means protectively standing for something and knowing exactly what you stand against and sticking up for what you stand for and sticking up for what you stand against. That's what being wild and fierce is not what this PR stunt has been for the last 70 years to completely push and oppress men down, who yearn to be in nature, who want to build fires, who want to connect with other men, who want to wrestle on the floor, who want a purpose, who want to feel passionate about giving and providing and protecting. So the untamed man got birthed out of that. For men to come to and just leave with not only skills and tools to learn how to be calm and get over, you know, learn how to be less anxious and have some more peace within, but to leave with some fire in their belly and be like, wow, what just happened to me today? Because I can't wait to get home. I can't wait to crack on with life again. I can't wait to step into my fatherhood, my husbandhood. Like, I'm on fire right now. And it kind of got birthed out out of that. And I'm a physical guy, so it was like Well, I want that day to not only have teachings around our psychological journey with tools to take away, but I'm a big believer in. It's great the brain can understand something, but if you can't embody it and feel it throughout the body, real change for you and your. The people around you won't ever happen.

Yeah.

So I was like, right, great. I want to do. I want to put breath work in that. I want to put a workout in that. I want to put dynamic meditation where you get to. I mean, you've done it at Adam meditation. It is so expressive and connective, and it's looked at as taboo. And I'm like, no, like, for what that does in an area where you can't be judged, you're blindfolded. There's heavy tribal drum music going on. And you get to once in your life finding the release all them emotions. You've been, you know, heart conscious and unconsciously hanging on to pen up. Yeah. And whether that's swearing, whether it's screaming, whether it's chanting, whether it's hysterical laughter and not be judged yet, the public will see that and go, oh, that's taboo. But it's not taboo to read on the news that men are angry and repressed so they rape or murder or fight or whatever else. We'll turn a blind eye to that. But oh, my God, to see guys doing dynamic meditation in a park or, oh, I'm not too sure about that. That looks a bit taboo. I mean, come on, like, use your common sense. What would you rather have guys come somewhere to or just keep reading these news stories? And it was like, let's create an environment for that to happen where we can truly connect and to finish the day in an ice bath. It's not just about, oh, it's an ice bath. The ice bath for all of it. I mean, I'll just shut it up my spine now, and I do one every day. It's about the fear, the vulnerability. It's the. It's the fact that Western culture has no rites of passage or initiation. Yeah, yeah. It's about, you know, like, we've lost all rites of passage, all initiations from elder men who give a shit about younger men having something about them and bringing them into the community as blessed, seen and heard. Young men who can offer the community something like them days are fucking gone. Which is why young men now in society are yearning for belonging. They're yearning for connection. They yearning to be blessed by elder men. And what do we do? Because elder men don't give that anymore for all different reasons. And we'll go into it in a minute. But, like, that's why we have gangs, it's why we have tribes with wars while we have postcode wars. It's why we have. Yeah, they want to belong. And like all of us, we are willing to sacrifice everything we stand for and what we value just to belong to something. And we'll do whatever that initiation is, whether it's, you know, give me, give a knife and go and cheat someone, whether it's go to university and humiliate, you know, have initiation through humiliation just for you to be part of something, you'll be willing to go and do it because you're so yearning unconsciously to be blessed and seen and to belong to something. And the un. The undercurrent of all those things and is you still don't trust and you still know you're not safe because you still know unconsciously you've done something that goes against your values. Whether you've been humiliated in a drinking game, whether it's rugby and you're dropped off a mile away from your clubhouse and you run back naked, Whether. Whether it's being given the knife to go and stab someone deep inside. We all know what the am I doing. Like, this is going against everything that I want to stand for. Yeah, but I'll go along with it because I'll be accepted. And. And we're made to believe that that acceptance means that, oh, it's okay, this space is safe. But the undercurrent is, you know, it's not. Because you never know when the people you just done that for are going to turn back for you to do it again. So for me, it was like, well, this is a men's day to go through checking circles, to be taught about yourself, to get into your body, to express, to undergo breath work that allows you to go in and. And overcome the constant thinking process and doing process we're in, to work out not for competition, but for connectedness and then to finish the day building all as a building infrastructure to finish today as a group of men that stand around an ice bath to bless each man in that moment, to get in, to all understand that we're all crapping ourselves, that we're going to get seen to be scared and vulnerable. But we know we're going to do. We know we're going to have to do it. For me, it was like, I have to finish a day on that. Every man has to finish a day on that to Feel initiated and blessed. Who's been on a journey with other guys, elder and younger today?

Yeah, that.

Me, for all I am in all my emotions and all my physicality and my vulnerability. And you've been there. And every man gets out of that. There's no ego attached. It's not like you have to do two minutes, but no one cares. The fact you've done it says, like, you just showed courage and bravery and vulnerability. And every man that gets out, and no one's encouraged to do this, it just happens. Every man that gets out gets a high five, gets hugged without thinking of it. The feminine energy, because we've become so deeply masculine, automatically comes out. So all this feminization of men's bollocks. Men have to learn how to really get masculine again because the byproduct is the softness appears. And you've seen it. Every man gets out of bath and. Or the ice bath, and a man will pick up his towel, put the towel around it for him, give him a hug. All that beautiful feminine energy of nurture, softness, compassion, empathy, connection.

Like you. You took me back to it when you said. Because firstly, I thought doing the ice bath at the end, there's, there's several points to pick up on here. But the, the start of the day, I thought was really important because you're not just going along and like hang out. You're actually learning something and learning about yourself. But what I said about the physical side of things towards the end, when we did a kind of a. Let's call it a team workout was that I haven't pushed myself that hard for years because I haven't had competition. And, you know, when I was doing the world championships and training for that, I always had competition either in my mind, I must get faster, stronger, and then it's very easy to let yourself slightly go when you haven't got something to push yourself for. And I was fucked when I finished, but it felt so good to do that, to then get in the ice bath. But, and I remember, like you just said, the important thing was there was young guys. I was, I mean, I was what, 43 last year? But there was probably guys there that were maybe 18, 19 plus guys older than me. And I think in equal measure, it's so important for the younger and the, let's call it more mature men to experience this because there's hardly anything else around like this now. There are some, you know, being in the men's space, as you're an. I am, I see some other things around there's some others that are really good. There's others that for me look really shit. And. And I look and I'm like, you know what I take my back to when I worked in the city. Everything I create for the whole Man Academy is for the man I was when I worked there, you know, to help me six years ago through sleep, walking through life. But some of the events I see for men, I realize I can't take the piss too much because I'm like, you know what? It's just not my thing. But what you created, and we know we want to kind of bring that to the guys through the whole Man Academy is something that a guy won't forget. And you know, you said about the ice bath, for me, the ice bath, even if you're just getting in and out, it's like it's sealed the end of the day with something that you've achieved, which I know is like cold showers and stuff as well. But you've got more of them coming up in. Is it in January, your next one, which I think is already either sold out or you've got a good amount of people coming to it.

Yeah, we've got End of Jan. So we've got what I've got. I think half the tickets I've sold privately, the other half are on Eventbrite. So with the intentions to do it over every two, every three months. I think I wanted to run it four times a year again, so be sort of quarterly, but yeah, you need that. You hit the nail on the head there and you know, like, I'm much the same, you know, I'm looking, I was just looking on and like, it's just not my thing, you know, to begin with, us looking on, being like, oh, what is all this about? And you know, them feelings. And then I was like, it's just not my thing. And if it's not my thing, then surely there's other men out there that are looking and yearning for a different message, you know? You know, and like you said, the workout, it's about team, you know, like men yearn for team, you know, they yearn for environments other men within are in. And we all know that competition brings comparison. Comparison is the thief of joy. So it was okay. If we can create an environment for men to be in their bodies, where we go back primitively to move in for a greater purpose, what's the greater purpose for all of us, Our deepest. Why is all always another person? So if we can get a workout in, in teams of three or four guys that can communicate and look at each other's strengths and weaknesses. And then that moment, because of the time of day, we've done it. When everything's built up, everyone's able to go, all right, I'm fucked. Can you take over? Yeah, yeah, of course I will, brother.

I need help.

I need help. Exactly. And. And that's. And that's why them workouts are designed like that. And there's no competition. That's why there's no, like, race. Because what do we do during that workout? The fitter ones of us who finish our team join in with the others.

Yeah.

And we're either shouting and spurring each other on, or like last time we had the age range was 21 to 67, like 12 guys. And I had 21 year old and a 67 year old and everything in between. And it was a case. 67 year old gave everything. And my 21 year old and a couple of other of us were like, wanting to get involved. But then you dip into the integrity because you've got to ask yourself the question, what's allowing me to want to take over? Because every man also wants to earn his stripes, so you've got to recognize that another man, for him to understand and read another person's body language and cherish what he's telling you. No, please don't butt in.

Yeah.

Because he's going. He's saying to you, I want to show you and I want to prove myself to myself that I can get this done. And then he gets this done. He's like, thanks very much for your offer. Thank you for offering to help me.

Yep.

You just open up a whole new communication channel for me. But I also learned that, like you said, I also learned I can still push myself. And that makes me feel amazing.

Yeah. And do you know what? We're talking about the age range thing as well. I guess that also will talk about the boy to manhood stuff you're doing. But I'm seeing having nephews myself who are like young teenagers through the schooling and what is being taught to them and forced to. To be taught. Now. I've had some interesting conversations about that, which we'll come on to. But I think it's great for, you know, us guys in our, let's say, 40s and upwards. It's very rare we'll have gone to that. But getting the younger guys to come along to normalize those kind of really powerful in your 20s, you know, if you go to one or two a year, by the time you're 30, you'll have learned so much more about yourself. I just wanted for you in this last. I mean, since creating the Untamed man and the Wolf Pack men's community and the Boysman, what do you think you've learned about yourself?

Oh, my God, you got me right off guard on that one. I like that. What a question. What an absolute brilliant question. I think what I've learned about myself is there's a bigger picture than just me, that connection's everything. Like, connection is everything. And I've realized that actually my life, for me personally, becomes far more purposeful now that I'm more selfless, that I realize that this is really needed. It's given me a lot of peace. It's given me, I say, the opportunity to be more trusting, more trust in. In myself. More trusting that the world wants to move for me, that if I follow my path and I really believe we're all in one. And as Jordan Peterson YouTube video an hour long afforded it to you today, that was amazing. And he says in there about sitting on the edge of your bed and asking yourself a really honest question is, what am I doing every day is absolutely destroying me, that I'm taking actions in or. Or paying attention to that's destroying everything that I should be here for. And it was such a powerful question. And I was like, this year was a year that I've kind of sat in that and taken everything away that you, you know, in for me. I knew inside. I knew inside I had to bring this to life. No matter whatever hardships I've had to go through this year, financially, personally, I knew I had to bring boy to manhood, to life. And I had a mission 18 months ago to get that into independent schools. And I stopped procrastinating, had the opportunity to do it because I wanted. It was a broader picture.

Yeah.

You know, it was initially like, I've got this message. I want to get it out to. Oh, my God. Teachers and parents could really do with this help.

Because the kids are. How can I put it? They're kind of passengers, really. Because it's about who's allowing them to be taught this stuff. Because like you say you can create brilliant content and it might be powerful for the boys, but if the teachers can't see the value in it and the parents, then it's a waste of time.

Yeah. Because it become a broader picture. It was like, boys need this. And as I said back, it was like, oh, my God, teachers aren't taught this stuff either. So it's like, as soon as I surrender to that. And like. And parents aren't taught it, like, teachers aren't taught about inner gps, how that then links to VAC models like learning modalities and mirror behavior and trigger behavior from tonality, from language, from all this stuff, you know, And I won't bore the details. I could talk about hours for it, but it was just like, oh, my God, if you were to. If I can help boys understand and have teachers in the room at the same time, this is going to have a far deeper impact than I could ever have imagined. Yeah, that thing of grateful, mate. I'm just very, very grateful that come the end of this year, in the last two months, like, people are looking at that and going, oh, wow. Like, we aren't educated on that. Our degree didn't touch any of that. Teaching qualifications don't touch any of that stuff. Like my CPD that we get given by the school doesn't teach us any of those things. And they're all the most important things for us to transfer to kids to help them have the best learning experience they get in these formative years. And I'm grateful that schools are now coming forward going, yes, Rick, we could really do with this.

I think it's. I think it's literally should be fucking celebrated that schools are. I'm mildly surprised that they're allowing you to even come in. And what I mean by that is because some of the schools have become so woke with their bullshit and their restrictions and forcing kids to learn things that they don't particularly want and shouldn't be learning, certainly not at young age that I think it's great news that you can have someone on the flip side of it, like yourself, that can go in and present a, like a different view on. An agreeable view for me, on, like, where boys should be going especially. I mean, I know and I've written about this before either in the, in the whole Man Acuity, Cold Man Academy, E Letter. But like, I know at some schools, especially at Warwick, where they were told they had a thing called banter is bullying and you're like. And I wrote about it and said, banter isn't bullying. There's a, there's a, There's a line between it. But banter, if you can't get used to people taking the piss and having a laugh with you and a joke and what have you, then you are going to melt as soon as you get out into the real world. They also got told that one of the boys said that someone was fit and good looking, a girl, and they were told they're not allowed to say that. Another boy said, I think walked into a room and there was something about said, oh, there's no need to have a mother's meeting. And the teacher told him it was misogynistic to say that and shouldn't be saying it. And you're like, wow, you're really trying to control the way the kids think. Not just about what they learn, but on the flip side of that, here's my point. You can't, if you're going to put your kids in school, you can't spend all your time complaining about what they're being taught because you're still putting your kids in school. So for me it's good that they're allowing some like you to come in and give a completely probably a much needed different opinion on, you know, helping a boy understand where the he's going in life.

And yeah, there's a few things I can touch on that. Like I come in because I come in with a different viewpoint and I'm invited back because that thankfully, because that different viewpoint I delivered in a boarding house school in Sussex and they'd had, I won't name the company and the speaker, but they've had other people come in and send a message. And you think these boys aren't getting affected. And I had a group of 14 to 17 year olds who harnessed a lot of anger, who harnessed a lot of feeling like they have to hide themselves. They feel like they can't contribute or air their opinion. And in their words, they're like, with an anger behind this. And this is the thing with all this messaging is what, why are we made to be so ashamed to be boys? I'm so scared to talk to a girl now because if I tell her that I find her attractive, apparently that's being seen as misogynistic. That seen as being, I'm being a toxic man. I'm being a toxic boy. I don't even know what to do. How, how do I even tell her? How do I have a relationship? Yeah, how can I get a girlfriend now? Because. And they were not talking one boy. This was a boarding house of 38 boys. And I'm having to field all these questions at the start. And then I take him on the journey of psychological journey of man. And halfway through I wrote on there and I said out loud, boys, I want to be like, we should be effing proud to be men. Like, male. Like, I want you to be absolutely vehemently proud to be, to be boys. And this is why, because this is our qualities and I want you to own them because this is what it brings to the world. Like don't listen to the world saying all this because if you're more of this, this is what we really need. And mate, 38 boys are born house up. Cheering, clapping, high fiving each other, cuddling each other like boys cuddling each other. And I got told before that I don't expect to get much out of them. No, you like I'll get a lot out of them and I'm going to re energize these boys to be extremely proud boys who are in this, and you said it earlier, pillars of the community in that school. And I'm going to help them understand that a boarding house has a unofficial hierarchy of elders down to youngers. And I want to empower them elders to completely change the culture and script in that boarding house to make them youngers feel safe enough to come to them when they have a problem in study or anything else. And rather than hide in their rooms and separate themselves from everybody else because they have fear of being vulnerable, I want the 14 year olds to look and go, hold on a minute, Jack, who's, you know, the top of this house, yeah. Has been through what I've been through and I'm sitting in my room on my own in fear of being vulnerable because I've got a question about some of this study I'm doing. I want to flip that. I want all these boys to go, no, like I'm, I'm a male in this boarding house, in this school. I want to be approachable. I want to know, I want other people to know that I'm compassionate because I want people to know that I'm reliable, disciplined and I know what path I'm on. And when you know them things all of a sudden you can be compassionate and empathetic and nurturing and this is what gets lost in all the messages and to see 38 boys start cheering. And then I get an email two weeks later saying, Rick, please can you come in deliver to every other boarding house. The boys are still so vocal and animated from having you in and I'm literally begging us for you to come back. Like Ann, what does that tell you?

It's I tell you what. And there was a question here which is going to be what's. And I'll. I've already answered it for you. But what's your biggest challenge with that? And it Won't be the boys. It will be the. The school's own indoctrination system, if that makes sense. And that is the hard thing, isn't it? Because, you know, you've only got to look at, if you do your research of, like, where the universities get their funding from. You know, when you go back to it, they're using such an outdated system when in fact, actually they're using, you know, some of the. The things that boys or kids, you know, in general are being taught. You know, it comes from the very top of who's trying to manipulate people. So I see that as so important that, like, you say you're getting a great reaction, and they're saying, bring Rick in and he can talk to all these different boys because, hell, they need it. In between not spending the whole time on social media and comparing themselves to others, the words when you talk about I had in my head were like being comfortable in their own skin. Because I think a lot of boys will be confused about, you know, what. What they should or shouldn't say. What can you question things? I mean, you and I know the most important thing you probably teach a kid at the moment is to question things, you know, is to say, hold on a minute. Just because that's.

Need to trade. Most adults in constantly question, explore things.

That's it. And you know what? That. That's the thing. And I know we just kind of touched on it, but, you know, you feel like there might be a lost generation of men who are maybe my age, maybe 10 years younger, who are so brainwashed by the media and everything else that it sounds harsh, but there's probably no point trying to get through to them. But the children that I heard a so much, you know, when you're born, you're like a beautiful diamond. And then basically you get covered in shit as you get older by what you consume, what you read, what you hear, who you hang around with. But those boys at the moment are still a fairly kind of a clean jewel, ready to kind of, you know, try and stay that way before they get covered in all the indoctrination that goes through it. So well, my other question on that was, again, the dangers that men are facing today, because I think there's multiple ones. But one of the big things for me is about censorship generally and that being censored personally at schools or, you know, not being shown certain information. But I wonder if you. What do you feel like the kind of. The dangers for men that are facing at the moment.

John, just before you Say that's what you said sank earlier on about what's the challenge in the schools. Yes, I just want to. I just want to quickly. Just only quickly.

Yeah, go for it.

I'm very. It's not a juggling act, but I'm very conscious that the boys are in the school and the school art. They are trying to do their best for the boys. And what I try and do with the boys is empower them and teach them about their own learning models. So that we do. We get them proud to be Mao again. We get them proud to be boys again and fired up for that. Because we, you know, as far as I'm concerned, we need passionate, energetic young men with direction.

Yeah.

And that, that's what I think for me, it's almost like my life's purpose is to help create that. And with that is the self realization of helping them helps the school. And what I try and do with the boys is go, look, there might be subject matters that you are not so interested in, but maybe it's just because you don't. And this is where the teachers have come to me and gone, I don't know anything about that. Can you teach me about that? And I'm like, yeah. And I teach the boys about value systems. You know, like they love being in nature, they love health and well being, they love friendships, they love. So it's knowing what your 4 to 5 innate GPS drivers are and then it's understanding what the behavior comes in certain subjects off of that. So how does someone auditory. How someone responding kinesthetically? How does someone respond in the area of interest for them? So say someone doesn't like science, they become disruptive, they can become disinterested, they become reclusive. And the teacher goes, oh, we've got a disruptive child. Or oh, he's failing or whatever. So you label them. Like I said to one teacher who said, oh, he's disruptive boy. I'm like, no, no, you just labeled him. You've got a boy and you've got disruption. They're two very different things. You just put them together and gave it a big, big label. And I was like, they're separate things. You need to look at the disruption of the boy. Not, not disruptive boy. Why is he disruptive? What's his value systems? In what subject is he disruptive? Exactly? Where's his energy? Where does he direct conversation? What does it look like he has energy for? Where does he look like he spends his time? Understand him and then look at his preferred learning model in your subject matter. Is he expressive of his hands? Does he like to talk? Where does he fail? Is it looking at a whiteboard and seeing what you've written, or is that where he thrives? If it's any of those freezes, look at the hierarchy of what their needs are and start to personalize the human rather than blanket his teaching experience, because then you can look at modalities and tools and ways and strategies to get him engaged in that class. He may not thrive, but ultimately we want that child to look forward to coming or have a leader neutral response to that class to enable him to try and get better experience, better results, better opportunity from it, whatever gloss we want to put on it. But because teachers aren't taught a gps, they're not taught values, they're not taught vac models, they're not taught how to use all these tools, it ends up becoming a blanket approach. And what happens at blanket approach is that boy then goes, goes down a set. So he'll lose his friendship group to go down a set. In science, labels, as you said, gets labeled. He then has to strategically behave around the new people in that group who aren't naturally his friendship group. That distance then also becomes an isolation because the relationship he's got with the people he wants to be with makes him in turn go, oh, I'm not good enough. Oh, I'm stupid. Oh, I can't be part of that group because I've been separated. So then we create an inner dialogue of isolation, which then creates strategic behaviors to fit in with the new group, which then creates separation from other elements of his school. So it's far bigger than anyone ever thinks of what this, what this like, does of the void of what teachers knowledge isn't given to them, I think. So my challenge is always for the schools to realize I'm actually on their side. And if they're open to it, I can help the school, which helps the boys and the boys get to help the school in turn.

And you would hope then that as the boys grow, they can then, you know, like kind of pass that on to, you know, be it younger brothers or younger kids at school and stuff like that. And that's part of the thing for me is about it's funny because a lot of what you said you could apply then to a man in his 20s or 30s, because a lot of what you teach and what I try and talk about on the E letter, we haven't been taught at school. So it becomes slightly alien to you. I saw a post on LinkedIn and we talk about LinkedIn, but where it was a girl that had kind of said, you know, I'm taught all this stuff, which is based, I'm not saying everything at school is useless, but I've taught a lot of stuff that you apply it to the real world is useless, but I haven't been taught all the, you know, the more important stuff. And even if you start with, you know, taking care of yourself, your, your proper health, fitness, your mindset, you know, setting goals, assessing where you are in life, contemplating life, as Neil Kramer would say. So I just think that's really important what the word that came up to me there was also, you're trying to build leaders. And it doesn't mean that leaders mean that they just get to tell everybody else what to do, but leading their family, their community, their business, their whatever. So kind of what's your take on. Because I was going to ask you about leadership. I mean, obviously you've been in the fire brigade, you've been in rugby, so you've been around those very, put it, hierarchical systems for guys that wouldn't have listened to your previous podcast. Can you give me a very potted history of where you were, you know, from when you kind of left, let's say, schooling to the roles you had, because then they'll maybe understand a bit more of what you went through. Also with the wheelchair issue as well.

Oh God, yeah. Left school, went, signed professional rugby contract. Didn't quite work out, broke my spine, collapsed two discs. Wheelchair bound for 18 months. Got myself back from that. Lost, disillusioned with the world, 21, 22, managed to teach myself to walk again, get myself physically kind of capable. Went on a bit of a journey to find out what I wanted to do with my life. Huge voids. Became a firefighter at 25 for London, spent 10 years there, went back to play semi pro rugby again. During that period, became a personal trainer, became an educator, became an assessor, so taught all the personal training syllabus as well as, as well as pt. Left the fire brigade seven years ago to concentrate basically on strength and conditioning and education. Five years ago, got into life coaching. So neuro linguistic, NLP programming, kind of CBT shadow work, timeline therapy, all that kind of stuff. So I became just a coach, started using that with my clients with pt. That quickly went on to just working with anyone from athletes to other firefighters to CEOs to MDs to whatever it was. And then it kind of opened its own door to the last sort of three years Was almost exclusively being with men and boys still work. The odd female, that's generally been the story. Like, there's having all my own in there. You know, there's a lot of resilience has been bought or been born out of all that. A lot of figuring out. I've had quite a lot. I've always had a massive awareness and, like, a real good skill with people. Like, I've always known that since I was at school. And, you know, like, I'd be like an agony on, like, hours on the phone to people having problems. And I was like 13, 14, 15, and, like, girls, all my mates crying on the phone like, oh, can you help me, Rick? I'm going through this and that. I always had that as a rugby captain, as a crew manager in the brigade. Like, my soft skills have always been the thing that bonds people.

Yeah. And it's always.

Yeah, like, people always concentrate on strategy and logical reason for performance. And I've always looked at that and been like, I've kind of always found performance always increases with really good people skills, like understanding people for them to understand themselves, for them to understand others, to get the best out of each other. And all of a sudden, once you've got them down, then you can sprinkle the stardust on the. On on the back of that. But generally I find them, yeah. But the world we live in is like, oh, no. Strategy, logics. And then we might sprinkle a little bit this other stuff you call soft skills or people skills. Like, you know, I'm always like, you've got the foundations here, mate. Like, it's the other way around.

Everyone wants a shortcut, you know.

Yeah.

Appeal or. Or a hack that can get everything done faster and quicker. And you're like, you know, sometimes you got to put in the hours.

Yeah. And I always feel like I. Like everyone wants to quickly look at science and research. And someone said to me the other day, so this will make you laugh, I got asked to deliver a workshop for a unique. And I said to the guy, a couple of words in there of, like, a man's psychological journey. He went, oh, how do you feel about being challenged? I'm like, yeah, I'm good at challenge.

Bring it on.

I like, I like being challenged. Yeah. He's like, why'd you like being challenged? I'm like, because it'd be someone else's viewpoint that's different to mine, which means I can learn. Learn something extra about what I'm delivering and what I've missed. So it's good. Like, I like it also now it was me to share with someone else. And he was like, oh yeah, because when you won the, when we run the workshop, I don't want, I don't want anyone to disagree with you. I went, we're not running the workshop. He's like, what? He went, oh, we're going to pay you really good money. I'm like, yeah, I don't care. I'm like, I'm not, I'm not here in this world to not upset people. Like. And that's the problem that we, we are diluting everything for mass agreement. And the trouble is what comes with that is, is the lack of balls to stand up for something. Which comes back to what you said originally about community and standing up for something much closer to home than the bigger picture. But you know, we can go for a massive tangent on that. I can't remember the original question around.

The reason I asked you to kind of reshare your, let's call it your, your journey slash story, whatever you want to call it was also it's a good reminder to guys that maybe, you know, if you, if you took a certain point back there in time, you probably would never have believed that you would be where you are now, going to schools and teaching these. And you know when, maybe when you were playing rugby or in the fire service and it just reminds you that, you know, we say guys go through phases and a phase might get cut short because of an injury or a phase might just be like for me in the city, I was like, you know what, I'm done with this. But you never know kind of what's coming in a few years time. And it's very easy to guys sometimes to be so busy just living in the moment, which is nothing wrong with that, but not spending time looking at what would I like to achieve. You know, maybe what you're doing now isn't what you want to do for five, 10, 20 years. And the sooner you start doing the inner and outer work, the sooner you can't kind of start moving in that way. So what's your kind of routine at the moment for keeping, you know, healthy, fit and what have you? What are the kind of things you're generally are, what's the word is non negotiable.

Right?

I.

So I don't go to the gym anymore. I just don't fight. I say I don't go to the gym. There's one place I go to once or twice a week. It's a, it's a CrossFit box. I don't do CrossFit. I train with the owner. He's the same age as me, he's in his 40s. And that, you know, it's like. And as soon as you get past 35, a lot changes.

Yeah.

You know, you have a lot more responsibility that you want to take on. And wherever else my go to's are hydration. So as far as my own health and well being, like, my hydration is my number one. I could try and get two to four liters of water in every day, a cold shower, an ice bath every morning. And there's so many facets of why I do that. Like I don't want to do it. So for me to voluntarily put myself, to voluntarily put myself through something with no audience, no cheerleading, no one else around, like half five, six in the morning, in the darkness, it tells me a deeper message about myself. Like not only am I willing to put myself through it, but two, I'm like, I go into my breathing so it tells myself the message. I can find calmness. Like when the shit hits the fan in the day and stress comes, I know I can find calmness by bringing myself back into my breath. And then there's all the other benefits. The ice bath, like, you know, like increasing your central nervous system that allows you to not get as ill as much. All the rest of it, you know.

I'm looking at the day as well. You know, for me it is that. I mean basically nearly every, especially in the winter. It's, it's a lot easier in the summer when it's warm outside. But it, it is. Every morning I'm like, I have excuses why I won't do it. And then I'm like, no off. Like, come on, you've got to do it. And then afterwards you're like, that's your first win of the day.

Yeah. And it's something as well. I was talking to someone this morning about this. It's great having a cold shower indoors. I know not everyone's got access to it, but there is something absolutely magical of doing it outside.

Yeah.

Like being really connected with the earth and nature again. But yeah, that's like a non negotiable for me. Working out is another one. Like I do every morning I have a 15 minute stretch and like movement routine that's non negotiable. And I work out and as I've got older and everything, the movement and the yoga has become an absolute staple to my day.

Yeah.

And the working out, like I've just stripped it back. You know, I've got sandbags, I've got kettlebells and all I do is I just use all my whole body movements, you know, like whole body movements. I always say I want to be useful. Like I don't, like I don't see the point in this. I get it. We have gyms and then gyms play on people's voids like one of those voyages, the need for connection. And that's what gym is really good for, bringing people together to connect. What are the large majority of gyms made for? Let's play on people's insecurities. Like if we can build over the last 50 years insecurities around body image, around what body image can do for opportunities. Let's build a social media platform that's all about visual, all about visual aid. Let's build a platform where for acceptance of self is to look a certain way. To look a certain way means we can sell a product. That product we can call protein. That protein, if you actually do the research is made from all the scum and the crap that's left over off a cheese blended up with all other ingredients to make it tasty. Then if we get a really good PR team to market that we create a billion dollar business that plays on people's voids. Yeah. And for a long time I've like, I've always looked to be like what the heck, We've got men looking in mirrors and most women don't look at men and go oh yeah, wow, he's jacked.

Yeah.

Like men make the excuse they're doing it for like women or doing it to feel better about trying to attract the opposite sex. You ask any man who compliments the most other men which gives you the undercurrent again that we yearning for men to be recognized by other men. But what we're doing at the moment is a self fulfilling prophecy of insecurity trying to fill it. I'm going off, I'm going off tangent but that's one of the reasons why.

I left the gym because we always say trying to give people or men, you know something to think about and you know what, we've. I'd never thought of that until we moved away from London because I always used to go to the gym that was, I was belonged to like the virgin active because there was a massive one near me and one in my office. And it wasn't until we moved up to the countryside we've got our own really big home gym which has got you Know, bike, squat, rack, power plates, boxing, kettlebells, rower, you know, battle, rope, slam, balls, all the things you need. And people think, oh, that was great. But you know what I really miss? Going to the gym and just seeing other people, like. And I didn't talk to people at my other gym, like, but it was the fact you'd be there and they'd be a girl squatting over there who had a bottom like a little peach. And you'd enjoy watching that for a minute. Then there'd be a guy over there you might just say hello to. You'd be like, what's he doing? And it was just the social side of it that people, the old, be careful what you wish for. A lot of people, like, when they know I've got a big home gym, or putting. Oh, that'd be great. I wish I had that. And you go, yeah, it's. It's really good. It's a good tool. But you know what I miss is going to the gym and just being around other people. I tell you what I loved from the gym that I used to go to down in Bickley, down in Bromley, there was a guy called Tama Hussein, I think it is. So he's the actor that was in.

Oh, no.

Yeah, yeah. A couple of different gangster movies and whatever the one is with Danny Dyer. But what I loved about him, he used to go to the gym and he'd be in, like, a fully. I know I'm making this up, but, like, you know, the matching tracksuit and trousers and, like, pristine trainers, and he'd have a towel wrapped around his shoulders and he'd basically just go on the walker for about 10 minutes, and he'd be bowling along the walker and people would walk past and be like, all right, Tama, all right. And he'd just do that. And I was like, he's not doing a proper workout at the time. But it is about you've got all these people that come and say hello to you. And now I miss. Because if you've got your own gym, you're just in there on your own, which is good sometimes, but sometimes you need a bit of social side of things.

And how ironic is all of that? And that he went to a gym to say hello. Yeah, this is, like, I always find hilarious when people go to the gym and go on a running machine. They walk out and I'm like, yeah, you literally pay whatever membership you're paying when you could just walk out your front door and you could run on the streets, or if you want to go for a walk? You can walk on the streets and say hello to every bypasser.

Yeah. So what we're into New Year, obviously now, listening to this. I mean, we're recording this just before Christmas, but therefore a lot of guys to state your business will be looking at being, you know what, I've maybe put on a few pounds over Christmas. Understandable, because it is. I do love a mince pie and everything else that goes with it. But it is about. Now. The big thing also if you're in the UK is the shit weather. You know, it's going to probably be freezing cold and the nights are at least getting longer slowly. But the big thing for I think you and I is getting out into nature. And if you can get out and work out in nature as well, then more the better than being under fake lights and what have you. You.

Yeah, yeah, 100% agree. And I talk about this a lot, about environment and identity and your outcomes that first of all, you got to sit in your identity, like before you make any goals, before you try and create a system to get there, like atomic habits. James Clear talks about this. The most important aspect is taking the time to sit in identity. Like it's going, okay, what do I want to achieve? And then look at what you want to achieve and ask yourself the question, like, who does that man surround himself with? What environment does he go in? What books would he read? What podcast does he listen to? Who does he surround himself with? What nutrition would he. Would he, you know, eat? Would he cut away? You know, would he keep or cut away social media, is it feeding him or is it consuming him? Like, you got to ask all these questions about identity because then you sit there and go, ah, fucking like, if I want to feel alive and flexible and connected and light, do I want to go? Do I want to go to gym and set headphones in weights? No. Well, if I want to be connected and light and flexible, what I need to do. Okay, I probably need to be outside. I'd probably like to walk, which might lead to a bit of a run, actually. Oh, yeah, that's what I love doing. Okay, brilliant. That ticks my boxes. Because the guy that would do that, the outcome of the man that this creates. Oh, yeah, now I'm in alignment. Oh, now I need a system. What's my system? Right, Okay. I probably need to hire a PT to get me started. I could probably do of learning a bit about mobility because I want to be flexible. All of a sudden you create the identity, which then Enables you to create the systems which creates your action step to get on the outcome.

It's men giving themselves the time to think of these things as well, because men can be so busy, busy, busy. And we've all probably been guilty of it at some point that if you said, oh, and again, especially we're talking about the start of the year, which, you know, there's. There's maybe too much emphasis on restarting at the start of the year, as opposed to people thinking they can restart it at any point. But there'll be a lot of men reflecting on, maybe I could get a bit healthier, eat better, think better and what have you. And like you said, it's about actually giving yourself time to start with, because a lot of people will be like, oh, I haven't got time to think about it. Like, yes, you have, mate.

You know what? It's that time. Everyone treats life like it's like it's infinite. And it's not like our energy, our time, it isn't infinite, it's finite. And it's going. Sitting there, like Jordan Peterson said, to quote Rick Cooper on this one, you sit on your bed to go, what the. Do I really want? Who do I? And who do I really want to be?

Yeah.

And they're deep questions to ask yourself, like, what do I really want? Because I'm not here forever. Like, my time is finite, my energy is finite, my attention is finite.

Yeah.

Like, it isn't endless and it's all going to come to a massive stop. And I don't know when.

I mean, look, honestly, we've. We've probably got about another 40 years left. You know, let's. If I'm 44, if I get to 84, will I be happy with that? Depends how I'm living. Because I'd. I'd rather live well than live, you know, till you're 100 in some care home. Although you probably be finished off by the government by then anyway, But. So isn't that important, though, to ask yourself these questions? And again, going back to the whole man Academy letter, so much of that is I don't say to a guy, he's going to read it and suddenly his life be transformed. But I get lots of messages from guys that say, I really enjoyed this week. It made me think about this, that and the other. And I don't think there's many opportunities. I mean, when you look at what, what men might read at the moment, I mean, you've got the newspapers, which are all just lies, propaganda and agenda Driven. Anyway, then you've got things like Men's Health, which I. I used to read a lot. Then I realized it was basically the same thing, regurgitated year after year. And then you have to understand that that will have its own agenda. Either a, to sell the products that it advertises in there, or. Or I was looking at the other day where Men's Health becomes. How could it. It starts going into the woke agenda of telling people what to think and being a social justice warrior. And you're like, just stick to health and fitness. That's why I'm reading it. But you look around and like yourself, it's like, where do men go to consume good content? Because there's not much of it.

About my always. I text a client this morning. What can you let go of to let come? Like, it's understanding that everything's. Everything wants your attention. Everything wants your attention. So what you. What can you let go of? To find out where to go? Yeah, to let things come. Like, I do all the time. I've literally cut off every subscription email, apart from one, because I want to be clear on the messages. I've got. I've got literally 12 books already for 20, 23. I'm not buying anymore because I finish one, I'll read it, and I want to study it. And otherwise everywhere I look is going to tell me, I'll read this book, read that. But this one would be good. Every podcast, like, I'll stick to probably two. Two podcasts. And I do that in quarters. I don't want to be distracted. So I'll be like, okay, like, I want to listen to the High performance was one last year. Three months of high performance and a Joe Cole one. Because I like the banter. I like it was lighter. And then I'll section myself another two for three months. Like, because I want to get into a line with it. I want to feel it. Like, is this my thing? Is it not? And that's not me being rigid. If anything, that's me being disciplined. Because discipline creates freedom. Get rid of all the noises. There's a reason why I shut down my Instagram, I shut down my Facebook, I shut down Twitter, I shut down TikTok. And I was just like, right, I've got one account, LinkedIn. How effective can I make this for me? Yeah, you know, like, that.

That's important. I mean, I wanted to Talk briefly about LinkedIn because it's the same, you know, we on the podcast, we talk a lot and always have done about social media. You know, we've talked to guys that have got a million followers and we've got. Talked to guys who have got a small amount or have never been on social media. And I was joking. There was a guy who lives in our village. Oh, sorry, doesn't live in a village, but lives locally, who runs a business, pays himself a. About 80 grand a year, I would wager something like that. Has got a selection of staff, gives all the staff Friday afternoons off, so they're all happy. And he's never ever been on Instagram, LinkedIn, Facebook, you know, doesn't even have accounts on them. And I was like, I hate you. Like, that's brilliant. That's amazing. Like, it's so funny how I'm trying to think who it was that said, everybody wants to be rich and famous. Try just being rich first. Because being famous and having big social media accounts brings its own issues. So for you, what was it like when you got rid of your, you know, LinkedIn? Sorry, not LinkedIn, but Instagram and Facebook and stuff like that?

Feel good initially, I'm not gonna lie, Ann. It was really hard.

Yeah.

Really, really hard. Yeah. It's like turning your phone off. Like, I. I've got back in the habit of turning it off for the weekend. And that first, like, 12 hours, 80. Yeah, 18 hours is like. Oh, you get that. Like FOMO. You think you're missing out. You think that you need to contribute somehow. You know, like, all these fears and voids that we've got, all of us have got them get played upon. And then the longer you can withstand it, the longer you're like, oh, that's what's going on right in front of me. Like. And people don't get it because you explain it to them. Like, oh, you get to concentrate on your family a bit more. Like, you listen better. You're aware of what's going. I'm already aware of what's going to my house. I'm already really listening to. I'm listening to what's going on. I'm already giving out my attention. And it's a bit like we said this earlier, like, trying to tell people that. That don't do it, think they do it, and you're banging your head against the wall until the person does it.

Yeah.

And then they go, oh, my God, I see what you mean now. And it was like that for me, like, after the first week or two on Instagram, after. After six months, I reopened an account, and two weeks in, I suddenly realized, oh, my God. I unconsciously Change my behaviors without thinking. Yeah, because of it. Because I'm looking at things, I'm consuming. So I realized I was going to gym again. I started going to gym four days a week because of what I paid attention to on Instagram. And I never really realized I did it. It was because I started looking and without realizing I was comparing in my brain. I'd suddenly built this model of, oh, yeah, if I get bigger, muscly again, oh, I'll get more business. I'll be more respected. And it was like it became such an unconscious fault and I was creating all this stress in my life by trying to go to gym four days a week, by being in pain again four days a week, by me not doing the yoga routine, going, when Clay got home from school, so I missed out on two hours every evening with him, and it was like, oh, my God, two weeks later, I was like, this is. What am I doing? Like, this was all come by the consumption of. Of social media. Deleted it. And all of a sudden it was like, I've got massive clarity again. Yeah, I've got. I've got more time. My behaviors are way more in alignment with who I really am in my stomach and my heart.

Yeah, I think it's just become so important to hear that, though, because a lot of people can be transfixed on, like, you know, the more followers, the better. And I remember being at and people assume that if you've got loads of followers, you'll be earning lots of money. But I know certain people, and probably you do, who have got loads of followers and actually haven't learned how to monetize it, and they end up living. I mean, I look at some of my friends and, you know, love them, but they spend their whole life living through social media and have to share everything that they do everywhere that they go. And you're just like, I wonder if one day maybe they won't, but we'll look back. If you were shown how much, even if you didn't, if someone at the end of your life said, hey, I've totted up all the hours you've spent on social media scrolling and looking at other on there, would you, you know, what, what might you have done with that time? And even if it was just relax and spend time with your family, it's something for me that in 2023, I will be trying to be more mindful of as well. Because with the whole man Academy, obviously we have Instagram and I'm posting more LinkedIn, but, you know, I was the same we had Twitter and I just was like, you know what? I just like, basically I took the app off my phone, so the account's still there, but we just don't bother with anything. One of the big things I would suggest for guys which I've found useful, is if you do need to post because of work, business, whatever it is, then using something like Buffer, which is free, you can link like your Instagram, your Twitter, your LinkedIn, Facebook to it and you can schedule like 10 posts for the next week, optimal times, and then just leave it. So like for the next three or four days I'll know that there's something post on LinkedIn that will just go on there and I don't have to go on there to post it and stops you from scrolling. So I appreciate for some people go, I can't delete social media. I need it for business. And like, great. If you do need it, how can you make it work best for you?

Yeah, yeah. 100% little things. Yeah. And you know why? And is little things comes back to that connection as well. I mean, if you run a whole business off of social media, not fine. You know, there's people on there. And I always wonder with this. They go, yeah, I'm not a people person, I'm a social media person. I'm like a social media giant. And this goes for like the influences who have got a large following and I've worked with a few of them, that these people are always the same people that will now again. Right. They're on antidepressants now and there's nothing wrong with that. I'm just saying you got to look at the patterns.

Yeah.

These people have worked with are so lost because they have to play a Persona and look a certain way. They come to you because they're so lost. You've got the people that run businesses off social media, always the same people that are like, oh, yeah, I'm antidepressants again, or I've just come off my depression or whatever else it is. And for me, like, I got close to being that person. The irony is the untamed man Last time, 12 men. Where do you think they'll come from?

Social media?

No.

Or local word of mouth?

All word of mouth.

Yeah.

Where the word of mouth come from? All because I set up in person events they would. So the people that came came. The people who they were connected to came. I've got two people of social media. Like, I'll sit here stressing about writing a post for my business and don't get me wrong, like, the school stuff has come because of LinkedIn.

Yeah.

But I'll sit there stressing out, writing a post. And I know we spoke about this earlier in the week about, like, whether you write, generate email newsletters or posts or whatever. I walked out the door for connection to the, to, to that CrossFit gym to go and work out the owner.

Yeah.

I meet two of the people in there. I've just finished the class, get talking. I get a new client.

Yeah, yeah.

I'll sit there stressing about writing a freaking. Yeah, freaking a post, and then I'll go and pick up a client straight away by leaving the house. What to do 48 hours later, train with them again. What happens? I get talking to one of the females in there who's talking to me about anxiety.

Yeah.

And I'm like, oh, if you looked at this as in some of her behaviors, oh, how's that linked to that? She's like, yeah, five minutes. She sat there literally drawing the floor and went, rick, I've been in therapy five years. How did you do that in five minutes? And I'm like, well, get a phone call later. Rick, can I book you in for 10 sessions in January? Yeah. And again we come back to connection in person. Like, I've never been on antidepressants. I've. I've never had to go and see a therapist per se, because I don't know who I am or I feel lost.

The medical establishment will hate you, Rick.

Because I know they will. The clues are all out there, but nobody wants to pay attention.

Yeah, I think that's important.

We've completely normalized being on a screen. We've completely normalized looking in the phone. And we've made it completely taboo to be truly connected in person with people. And, and we don't. We're not looking at. We can become completely blinded to what's actually going on in front of our face.

That's why. And again, you're singing from the same hymn sheet as me of how important it is to get out and meet local people and either do stuff. It hasn't got to me that you're, you know, doing stuff in your community, but just getting in your community. Even with the whole Man Academy dinner. That's why instead of doing them in London all the time, I was like, well, I know loads of guys around here and, you know, I've had a couple of messages from guys who, again, you never know that they're listening, but saying, hey, I wanted to come to your dinner. But I couldn't because of this. But, you know, when's your next one? And conceivably we could have had, you know, we had a couple of guys dropped out late on because they had issues and stuff going on with either kids or travel or whatever, but could have had probably 17 or 18 guys at our last dinner. And I'm sure the next time I do it, we'll probably have 18 to 20 guys there. And it's all local guys who are like conversations, connecting, what have you. I know two of them, you know, recently have like gone, oh, one guy does this and I need that for my business. And you're like, it's easy to hide behind a keyboard. He holds up because it is easy.

Do you know what, sorry, mate, to interrupt. So we've got. There's three guys wolf pack. So obviously it's free men's community that I set up in Brighton Hove and there's three guys that come or don't come and they'll be on LinkedIn and then they would message me, oh, Rick, I'm really like not got much work, blah, blah, blah, can you help at all? Do you know anyone? And they'll be on LinkedIn. They share their frustrations with me and then never come to the Wolfpack. It's been going on since June. We've had something like 48 sessions of the Wolfpack since June. And the more it went on, the more people were looking at each other and what they did for a living and would hire each other, whether it was fencing, whether it was therapy to get a therapist there, whether it was a car mechanic.

Yeah.

So I started getting it work through each other. That work then became recommendation and then the same three guys who we have on LinkedIn are like, oh, yeah, been a real struggle lately. But then can't be bothered once a month to get up at 7 o' clock in the morning to spend two hours with a group of guys. They're like, oh yeah, I'm really busy, I've got to seek this another one. We won't talk about this one today. I need to get permission like from the Mrs. Or. And I'm like out of that. All the hours in a month you can't find two hours.

Yeah. To say, I'm going to this.

Yeah. To go. And I'm going to go to this to be authentic and, and chat and connect with like minded men.

Yeah.

That potentially could also at some point with no agenda. All right, exactly. Yeah, but, but they'll sit there and go, I'm really struggling and then carry on on social media. And I'm like you, this is what I mean. Everything's in plain sight and no one wants to look at it.

I think that's, it's an important one to. When I say like to finish on is that getting out, are you getting out in nature is right, but just getting out around people is so important and like you say, it doesn't have to have an agenda. But that's why with our dinner, you know, we had one guy drove from Birmingham, one guy drove from Wolverhampton. You'll know Joe who came up from down south as it were. And two of the guys were going to drive from Winchester but couldn't make it. And you know, a lot of guys, when they finished they were like, there's nothing else around like this where you can just get together. We had guys there from Formula one, guys there from branding, guys there from, you know, entrepreneurship, all these different things and you're like the connectivity or the connection that men are lacking is what we try and provide through the podcast, through E Letters, through that stuff. So I'm always reminding guys to seek it out from, from people like us and try and go out to anything local and if not, start your own one. There's, there's exactly. Now, what does 2023 look like for you? More of the same or anything in particular? I know we want to try and do some kind of event at some point which I, I earlier named the Whole Untamed Man. The Untamed Whole Man.

I love it. I love that. Yeah, mate, that's, that's like. I definitely want to sit down with you and explore next year at least we can get one or two across a weekend would be amazing. Yeah, got the Untamed man will be January, end of January, end of March or end of January, end of April, end of August, end of November, again next year. So that's really excited about bringing that into the world again. Boy to manhood is, is pretty much what gets. It's like a five part workshop. The independent schools I've got bookings on already for January, February. So I'm looking to take that even further because you know, it's the whole point of that mate is one, the boys get to learn about masculinity, but it's also life skills. Like I teach them all about values and learning methodologies, I teach him about habits and identity, teach him about flow state stress and anxiety and also teach him how to goal set you so they're all skills that they don't get taught in schools and, and teachers and parents aren't taught, you know, in universities or anything like that. And we're trying to bring that in so we can help help young men in the broader aspect of life. So when, you know, the day they become fathers or business owners or, you know, whatever they go on to do, they're always going to have these tools to call upon. So I'm really excited for that. And I've got the wolf pack. So every third Saturday of the month we meet up in Brighton and Hove, seven in the morning till nine o', clock, take a, take a C dip. We talk, we connect, we share ideas. That's free and open to anybody in the local area and that's it, mate. Like, I didn't want to add, I wanted to, I wanted to keep with what the good work I've done and I already wanted to push into those things and then we'll see where that's.

Important there, which is it isn't always about adding more stuff in, like you say, because it's easy to think I need to do more. You're like, well, actually, you know, for a lot of guys, you'll have a lot of stuff going on in their life already. So, you know, a bit like you said with having a, maybe a fairly nice morning routine to get your body going in the morning and then after that, it's kind of not putting too much pressure on yourself to achieve too much, if that makes sense. Especially, especially at the start of the year. If you listen to this, in early January it will be freezing cold and you know, we're kind of getting our lighter mornings. But last thing is, where can men find you if they want to get in contact with you or learn more about you?

Yeah. So a website. Www.rick.com and LinkedIn, Rick Cooper on LinkedIn, they're my only platforms, so yes, just check them out, send me a DM message me and happy to connect.

Go from there. Well, we put all the, all the links in the show notes if I remember. I've managed to get my, my tech brain works these days. But this won't be the last time I'll be down for a wolf pack thing at some point when I, when I get permission from Emma, my unt.

End of end of January.

Yeah, well, obviously and, and as we know with another baby on the way for next. Well, for this year, as it's coming out in 2023 for us, it will be. I'll be looking for even more opportunities to kind of connect with men because I'll be surrounded by babies, nappies and. And stuff like that, so. Right, Rick, as always, it's a pleasure and I'll speak to you soon, mate.

Thanks for having me. It's been an absolute joy. I know we could carry on for ages, but thanks very much for hosting me, mate. Thanks for listening. Remember to sign up to our game Changing weekly E Letter that's read by men around the world.

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Com Movement until next time.