EP127 - HOW TO HAVE BETTER RELATIONSHIPS - EGE REYNOLDS | WHOLE MAN ACADEMY

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Are you ready? Okay, so this is the whole Mad Academy podcast, episode 127. My guest today, I've checked his name so don't it up. Is Ege Reynolds. Not E Gay. It's like as he said, it's reggae without the R. Who is he? Former software engineer, now a dating coach which we haven't had on before. He likes to help genuine analytical men attract and date women authentically, which I think is got some good topics to jump into. Also going to talk about combining Buddhist principles in dating and a few other interesting bits that I've. I've delved deep into his kind of locker to see what he's all about. But firstly Ege, how are you and where are you?

I'm doing great, thanks for having me on. I'm in Austin, Texas at the moment which before I moved here a lot of people told me the weather's going to be so hot when it comes April, but it's just cold and gloomy today. So we're echoing the weather from the UK and I guess we have that in common.

I think it's funny because the last few episodes I've done in the podcast have all been randomly guys who are out in Florida or something like that and I've been interviewed on a few. We always say how nice it is if you can get a bit of sunshine and I think for most of the guys that be listening to this, they'll be probably in the UK mainly and therefore we'll be craving some kind of sunshine. And I think funny it links into dating because think back to like the years when I was single, or sometimes I wasn't single, but I was still dating, which maybe at the same time.

Single on certain nights.

I heard it called it selectively single, as it were. Once you found that, like, in the summer, it was, you know, when you went out, if you were single, you, you. There was a lot more girls around, the girls probably wore a lot less. And you'd be at nightclubs and stuff like that was in the winter. People really want to hibernate. So I think it's really interesting to get into talk about dating because we've not really covered that topic much on the podcast, but I know some of the guys that listen to this, just like any other let's call it expert would be like, like, why? Why should I listen to this person? So I just wonder for yourself, like, tell me why you're a dating coach, kind of how you came about that.

Yeah, that's a great question. So basically, the way I look at dating is it's a vehicle for a man to go through his hero's journey and to open up his mind to his possibility and potential. Because there's nothing like standing in front of an attractive woman you're interested in without having had a few pints with the lads. That makes people feel that amount of insecurity and nervous nervousness, especially for men who may not have had that experience very much, or guys who are more in their head, more logical, more introverted. And this is why I love helping people with this. And I came from a background where growing up, I was 225 pounds or I'm like 101 kilograms. Yeah, I was playing Call of Duty, League of Legends, whichever video game, you name it, I was playing it. So I spent a lot of time, not just in class, doing math and physics and doing some computer science stuff, but also in front of the computer in my free time just playing games. And I wasn't exposed to women and I wasn't exposed to social situations as much. So when I finish high school in Turkey and then went to the US for college, I got into this environment where I'm unfamiliar with the culture. There's all these. I went to school in la, ucla, one of the best places to go in school. There's all these attractive women around me and I'm thinking, like, what do I do?

Yeah.

And at that point, like, I lost weight before I got to college. I dropped around, I think, 25 kilograms or so. But in my mind, I still saw myself as the fat kid who was not attractive to women. And it took Me a long time to build myself, build my confidence, be able to speak to people. And I think this journey was very personal to me in the sense that throughout time, I forced myself to speak to strangers, approach women in life. Tons of different situations, libraries, coffee shops, walking down the streets with their friends, with their family. Because to me, this was about showing myself what was possible and what could happen. And instead of believing the thought of, oh, this woman would not be interested in me, I thought to myself, well, I'm a man of science. Let's test out this theory by going in and having a conversation. So having been through that journey and seeing how different my life became on the other side, where I was not just meeting women who I really resonated with, but they were having a deep impact in my life, and I was having a deep impact on their lives, and I was just a completely different person. That made me want to come back and help other people with this because I realized if I hadn't done this, I would be living life in a state of contraction. And this was the vehicle through which I was allowed, or I allowed myself to really expand and present my true self to the world.

I think it's great. And you said about it being like the hero's journey, and obviously you've kind of described how you start on yours. And we've. We've actually got, like, one of our exercises or tools we use for guys is all about the hero's journey. Because I think for a lot of guys, they don't even realize they've been on it because, you know, sometimes you're. You're too busy kind of being busy to realize what kind of, what journey you're on. But I wanted to dig into first. I found it really interesting when you said that you lost, let's say, a significant amount of weight. Now what drove you to do it and how did you do it? Because for a lot of guys, even just losing weight is really hard, let alone losing weight and transforming yourself to be able to actually go and approach women. And I've got another interesting question that coming up. But so how, how and why did you lose the weight?

Yeah, so when I was a kid, I played basketball, and I was always the kid who knew how to play how to shoot the ball very well. But I was the second slowest in our team. So I was never an athletic person growing up.

Yeah.

But then I was basically in the situation with the team where I was a bench warmer. So I quit and played more video games. So I kept eating the same amount of food while cutting out all of the exercise. And next thing I know, a few months later, I'm standing like a potato. And the moment I decided to lose weight was me and my family had gone on this cruise to Europe. Like, we spent, I think, a week going through this river. And of course, if you're Turkish and you go on vacation, all you care about is, what can I eat? Turkish people are very big on their food.

Yeah.

So we tried everything on that cruise, and the cruise said, all you can eat meals. I come back, I step on the scale, and for the first time in my life, I see three digits in kilograms. Like, that was the first time where it went from 98kg, 99kg to. I still remember, 101.1kg. And I just looked down and I thought, okay, something has to change.

Yeah.

And when I made that decision, it. It was very clear to me. It was like in the hero's journey of knowing that there is something that's better. And one personal quality I have is if I know something is something I have to do, then I can't stand not doing it. I'm sure you can resonate with that as well when you know there's something authentic that's pulling you. It's more uncomfortable for me not to do it than to actually do it.

Right.

So that week, my grandma is a doctor, so she took me to a dietitian. And then my mom, I still remember to this day, my parents are divorced. My mom was like, oh, you want to work out? Just work out at home. But the benefit of having divorced parents is if one of them says no, you can always ask the other one. And they love to compete.

Yeah.

So I went to my dad. I was like, dad, I want to sign up to the gym. He's like, okay, let's make it happen. And from that moment on, for the next two, three months, whatever the dietitian gave me, that's what I ate. Whatever my workout. We didn't have, like, a personal trainer, but we had someone who gave you workouts.

Sure.

I just follow those things. And two, three months later, I went back to the dietitian. She saw me, and she's like, oh, my God. What did you do?

What you told me?

And I said, yeah, I did what you told me to do. Why are you so surprised?

But that's so rare, because so many people can. You know, we're all. We've all got access to basically the same information, and most of it's free on YouTube or whatever, but it's not the lack of information that people struggle with. It is getting, you know, doing the actual work. So that's why I'm really impressed.

Yeah, I think I was only 17 at that time, and I had this naive idea that, hey, if I pay someone something and then they tell me to do it, I'm gonna do it.

Yeah.

And I thought everyone operated that way. So in a sense, that naivety about the world became an advantage on that situation because I was like, my parents paid money for this dietitian, they're paying money for the gym. I cannot just go back in two, three months and look the same. That would be disappointing to me and to them. So that's how I kept myself accountable through that.

I think, I think it's great because especially at that young age. And I see now a big problem with, I hate seeing when like, little kids are overweight and the only person the parents like at that point, you know, they're not choosing what they put in their mouth, they're not choosing what fizzy drinks, what have you. And unfortunately, you know, often if kids don't change, I mean, you did a good transformation there and, and all credit to you, but often once people start off overweight, it's gonna be, it's gonna take something major for them to change. So I'm, I'm giving you 10 out of 10 for that already, without even talking about anything to do with relationships. But, well, if we, if we move on from that on to the actual side of relationships, because I think it's so important, you know, I would guess that the average guy listening to this will, will have either had some long term relationships or be in one. And as myself, I had several where I drifted in a relationship, and to be honest, I should have ended it ages ago. And I had some where they went well and some were a disaster. So for you, I know you said you're passionate about using dating as a vehicle to help men step into their higher self. So could you talk a little bit about that? If a guy's like, what does that mean?

Right. So the first step is, I would say, following yourself into situations where there is tension. So for a lot of men, it's just that first step of you're in a coffee shop, you're grabbing a quick coffee, you see a girl you want to speak to, instead of acting like you didn't see her and she doesn't exist and looking in the other direction, actually go up and say something to her. And especially with, you know, what's going on in the media, a lot of guys are like, oh, can I really do this? And I think it comes down to your intention. If your intention is genuine and you're coming in with the energy of, I want to appreciate the beauty I see in this person. Which sounds a bit cheesy to some guys. It's like, oh, she's just hot. What do you mean beauty? Yeah, like really coming from that giving mindset and understanding how much you have to give to the world so that you step into that situations. So the first thing I have people do, the moment they sign up with me is like, go out, give five compliments, let me know how that goes. Because if they do it, great from moment one, they're building social momentum. If they didn't do it, they at least spent some time with the beliefs that were preventing them from doing the action. So when I talk about using dating as a vehicle to step into their higher self, it's about consistently understanding where am I contracting in dating related situations. Sometimes it's keeping the conversation too safe. Maybe we're talking about this before the recording. Maybe we have a controversial opinion that we really stand by, but we're not saying it because we're scared how this person's going to react. Maybe we're connecting with a girl on a debate and instead of telling her, hey, you know, let's go back to my place and have a drink there. We're like, ah, let's just keep talking for the next two hours. So it's really becoming very self aware of what we're scared about in dating context, and then learning to step into that fear while keeping that compassion for ourselves. So it's not like you just have to always push through it because that leads to burnout. But how can we do the things that we're scared to do while having compassion for ourselves and then have amazing experiences along the way?

What I was thinking about there, which I think is such a good point you made, was you can apply that to so much of life. Because I would guess that, you know, a lot of the not approaching women that you fancy for argument's sake is a lack of confidence. But so much of life is a lack of confidence. Even though why don't you, you know, start that new business or, you know, something else, take up that new hobby or join the gym because you're lacking confidence and you're kind of fearful of maybe what other people think. And one of the things you said earlier was, I see with guys one of the hardest things was not so much approaching a Woman, but approaching a woman when she's with her friends.

Right.

And I just wonder if you could talk about that because what I saw from, you know, many. I've been with my partner for over 10 years now, but I spent a lot of my time dating beforehand and read lots of books on it and found it really, you know, it. It is all about psychology, basically. And what I saw then was sometimes you would see a woman that you really fancied, but she'd be with a group of friends, and of course you'd go over there, but then some of the other friends might be like, oh, what's he doing over here? And then suddenly you're on the back foot because you're, you're getting some negative tones. So I just wanted, like, if you, if, if you've got some thoughts on, on the psychology of when you're going to a group of women as well.

Yeah. I think a very important thing to remember there is, understand that even if you want to speak to just one of the woman, it's important that you stand in a good footing with the whole group because the moment you leave, she's going to go, hey, what did you think of that guy? And if her friends have anything negative to say about you, then guess what? Your number is going in the trash. Nothing. Nothing matters. Because a lot of, like, a lot of men, if you and I were on a night out and you're single and we were just charging around, you met a girl you like, I'd be like, dude, go ahead, enjoy your time. I'll find you in three days. A lot of women, they're leaning away from that risk. They would rather filter you a lot more and make sure, like, everyone approves of the decision, then take a risk. Whereas as men, we're more likely to take risks.

Yeah.

So I think in that situation, when you start off the conversation, give attention to everyone while owning your interests in the one girl you want to speak to. So you could say, excuse me, guys, I hate to interrupt. I know you're having girls night out, but your friend is just beautiful. I had to say hello. And what this does, is, woman may not fully like it, but they will respect it. Woman will respect a man who can express his internal world without needing to filter certain things back. And I think in a lot of situations where guys face some troubles in a group situation is it's because instead of going in like a straight arrow and owning their interest, they try to, like, grab a drink, just bump their hip, and accidentally be like, hey, how's it going? I didn't know you're gonna be there. And women can feel that when your words are not aligned with your intentions.

It's. It's such an interesting topic because I always think, I wish I'd have read books on dating before I started dating. Because again, we say a lot of this on the podcast about a lot of things in life, but you're just not taught this stu stuff as a young man when you're growing up and therefore it becomes a bit of. I think for some people, you're naturally good at it. Maybe it's because you've got confidence. And I had some friends who just. You'd walk into a bar and even if you saw a group of attractive girls, women, whatever, you'd be like, okay, let's chill first. Let's have a couple of drinks and just, you know, loosen up. And. And by the time you turn around, he's like sitting with them with his arm around two or three of them and they're all just laughing and joking. You're like, how the have you done that? And it wasn't because he'd studied it. He just had that ability to. Right. Like you say. I guess that comes, you know, comes from confidence and also having, you know, not worrying too much about the fear of failure because sometimes he would get it where the girl would, or, you know, friends would tell him to sod off or something, but he wouldn't come back and be like, I'm never talking to a girl again. It'd be like, it just wasn't the right person at the right time. So I, I think it's great. So what kind of guys have you learned from? I mean, have you. I'm trying to think of books like the Game and things like that, which guys might have. Might have read. So I just wondered for you, like, who are the people that you. Because you're still a relatively young guy, so you might have. Who have you followed or listened to that has helped kind of mold your thought process behind this?

Yeah. So I've actually still never read the game. I'm going to order it at some point just to hear the story. Yeah, the people. The way I learned this is. First of all, I did a boot camp with a company called the Art of Charm that wasn't just around woman, it was more general social dynamics, networking, social skills, public speaking. And once I did there, they had like a week long training with some inner work, going out and meeting people. And half of the clients they had were actually in relationships or married. So it was a great balance of still understanding social dynamics, but not going too far into the tactical, technical, maybe in some ways a bit manipulative way of interacting with women.

Yeah.

And that was the catalyst for me just seeing, wow, I can say hello to anyone I want to speak to. And funny enough, I signed up for their program because I was. I got friend zoned by this girl I really liked. But then before the program, I had found a girlfriend. So when I went, I was in a relationship, so I still met some people, but I didn't have any romantic goals behind it. Now what happened was when that relationship was over, I was surfing on YouTube one day and, you know, these, like, YouTube prank guys who go up to girls, say something funny, and then they, like, make a video out of it. And just one of the random videos got recommended on my feed. And it was the first time, like, I've actually watched one of those from the start to the end. And I was mind blown knowing what I'd known. With the art of charm bootcamp that I went through, I was like, how does this guy go tell a girl I love you? And then next thing I know, they're actually, like, interested and they hadn't met before. Yeah, that's just impossible.

Yeah.

So I saw that. Now it's like, I want to learn how to do that. And the last partner I had, I had met online. And one thing that was a really big insight and belief shift for me at that time was I want to be fully in control of the woman I meet. That's how I want to live my life. And then I see this video, and then I see the video of another coach who actually coaches this. He was based in the UK at the time called James Tusk. So I got in touch with him and he was coming to the U.S. timings worked out, so I did a training with him. And thankfully, he was a very humble, authentic, honest guy. He's one of my good friends now.

Yeah.

So the people I learned from just were the perfect fit in terms of still understanding attraction, social dynamics, how masculine and feminine polarity work, but not going too deep to an extent where it's unhealthy, manipulative, shady, where you almost joined it, dark side. And next thing you know, you're approaching women with Darth Vader on your side. Yeah. So that's how I got started. Learned from a lot of mentors along the way. Still have people I'm learning from now, but over time, the focus went from more dating into, like, self love, spirituality, and Then how to bring that back into dating.

I find it really interesting. And there. There'd be several points there we could have delve. Delve into, but because with the game, it was trying to find the balance between. When I read it, I realized some of the things I would do already, which. It sounds silly, but, like, you know, you don't approach someone you fancy at a bar, like, head on, because it's just like. It's kind of threatening, like, what do you want? Whereas if you're standing at the side of them at the bar and you speak from the side, it's. It's just. It's a lot more of a soft approach. And it was just little things like that. And I know they talk about peacocking, you know, like wearing outrageously colored clothes and in hats and things. I realize I used to go out with, like, illuminous green trousers on and things when I was young. It would just. It would just basically make you stand out from other people in a crowded space. So I would recommend reading the book just because it gave some great thoughts, but also it kind of shows you that, as you said, it sometimes leads into the manipulative, slightly darker arts, which I found slightly leaves a bit of a bad taste. So, yes, it's an interesting one, and I think it's one of those classic books that people should read, even if it was just for entertainment, because it's really interesting. But you just mentioned the word, like on. On a kind of spiritual side of it. And I know when you wrote you combining Buddhist principles into dating, and I just wonder if you could talk about that, because that's. That's one I. I find really interesting. So give us a. Give us a few thoughts on combining Buddhist principles into dating from a place of joy, love, and peace.

Right? Yeah. So basically, I think this is around two years ago now, after I learned how to approach how to meet woman. I was traveling in Mexico and I got to a point where on a surface level, I had everything I wanted. I was coaching guys. I was going on a couple of dates a week. I was dating amazing woman that I would have thought a few years back were completely out of my league. Yet I still felt like there's something missing. And there were other things that surfaced up in my psyche, like, oh, if I don't go on a date this week, then what's going on? Maybe I'm losing my skills again. So different, like, journeys bring up different belief systems and different insecurities that we may not have seen before. And at that time, I Was like, what's next? You know, I'm building a business. It could get better, but I have the right steps. My dating is great, I'm hitting the gym. So that's all good. What is there to fix next? Because I still feel like there's something is wrong.

Yeah.

And I, I spoke to a guy who became a very close mentor of mine, this guy named Pierre. And he was talking about the importance of meditation and how he used to be a dating coach as well, and how he kind of combined it in, in his own ways. And that really resonated with me. So I went from like not knowing he existed a few days before to just signing up for his program on the spot, like on just one call, not knowing I was going to buy something, because I knew this is the guy I need right now. And what, what we were doing at the beginning was doing long form meditation sets. Like starting with 45 minutes an hour, in the past year, I've done like two hour sets, three hour sets of just like meditating.

Yeah.

And what I realized was there's a way in which we can combine the spiritual principles with interacting with women and turn it more into an energetic practice. Because as I sat in meditation for long periods of time, you truly get to see everything's impermanent, everything's unsatisfactory, and everything's impersonal. And people say these things like people read a textbook and they're like, oh, yeah, these are the three characteristic characteristics. But when you sit long enough, you can actually feel something arise and how impermanent it is. And it gives you a different level of relaxation and different level of groundedness. So when, when we talk about integrating those Buddhist principles into dating, the big paradigm shift is how do we change being an attracting man from something that you need to do? Hey, there are certain things I need to say, certain things I need to possess to so that I'm attractive to. Just your natural state of operation. You just exist in an attractive way. And a lot of that is combining long form meditations and then having a process to come back to the present consistently. So one of the practices is called the six Rs, and this is from the twin practice. So if anyone wants to learn this, there is just, if you, if you search on YouTube, twin meditation, there's like a completely free channel that explains everything. And it's not from me, it's from them. But basically the process they recommend, and they found this in the original writings of the Buddha is called the six Rs, which means when you recognize there's a distraction, you release that distraction just like a cloud floating away. And then you relax the tension and tightness in your mind. A lot of problems men have in social situations come from the tension and tightness in the mind. Overthinking, insecurity, mind running in a hundred different directions. And then after we relax the mind, we re smile. So there's a smile in your heart, smile on your lips, smile in your mind, and smile in your eyes. And then we return to the present moment. And then the last ride is we repeat this process as we get distracted. So if we look at approaching woman in this lens, it turns into a meditation. What brings up more insecurities than an attractive girl someone wants to speak to? And we can practice this and get our attention back into the wholesome, get our attention back into the present moment so that when we speak to people, when we speak to a woman we're interested in, we're fully there instead of being in our minds. And this is the stuff that I'm really passionate in talking about and teaching these days. Because then the more present we become, the more we can appreciate people and woman for their energy rather than just like physical hotness, which are different things.

It's. It's so interesting. You've just said something I wanted to talk about, but I think with, with a lot of guys these days, for example, with. I can holding up my mobile phone and say, there's one of the reasons why men are. And people in general, but men are so kind of distracted. And the question comes like, how do you. Let's say a guy's listening to this and they're like, yeah, this is good. Like, how do you become more present when we're kind of bombarded with so much, you know, and so many things that are trying to grab our attention. So how would you, if a guy was like, okay, you know, okay, help me be more present you like, because. Because they're going to need to want simple, memorable things as well, aren't they? So any thoughts on that?

Right, yeah. So first part is, what are the things that are trying to grab your attention? And do you really need to give them your attention? So this comes in the form of people who are in your life. Like, what's your social circle? Who are you around? Cut out, as cliche as it is, cut out the negative people from your life build walls around your mind. Like you. We were talking about this earlier. You wouldn't feed your kid McDonald's. Why would you feed your mind terrible information in Terms of the news, negative content, drama series with drama, and people who are talking about those things. Like when. When I meet someone who's focused on the negative, I don't go and argue with them. I make a mental note and I go, okay, let's be more careful about this person next time. And I have the freedom to run my own business, so I can be very, very selective. And you can build the same thing for your friend. Circle how much you interact with people at work, and be very, like, be very careful about what comes into the mind. The second part of that becomes the systems you create. So actually, I put my phone away for the podcast episode so I can show it, but my phone is on grayscale. It doesn't even have color. And I only have notifications for apps that need my immediate attention, like a food delivery app or Uber or anything else that doesn't come to mind. Right now, I don't have notifications for WhatsApp, Messenger, Instagram, nothing. And when I see those sites, it's in black and white on my phone. And if I need color, then I just go to my computer. So building systems in your life where we. You become more intentional with your attention, and we tend to think, like, we fall into this logical fallacy of thinking, oh, but what if I miss something important because I don't have some notifications on? I had the same thought and I went, okay, let's just turn them off for two, three days, see if I actually missed something important. What I realized was I missed nothing, and I was so much more productive.

Yeah.

So we need to be very careful about what comes into our mind and our field of attention. A lot of people, like, try to control things when they. Once those things are in their attention field, why not just block them from coming in from the first place so there's less things to pay attention to.

There's. There's two points there. I mean, I heard a term a while ago which is pushing against an open door, you know, kind of meaning that I. I agree with some of the stuff you're talking about and will come on the news in a minute. But with the notifications, I think that's big because a lot of guys will be addicted to their phones, basically, you know, even if they don't really. I would probably say somewhat I've been addicted because you might be like, oh, well, I'll have a look at Instagram. Then I'll have a look at YouTube and, oh, we've got some new subscribers. And then ConvertKit, because we've got some new email subscribers and then LinkedIn or someone's connected with me and then oh Twitter, someone's tagged me and then Telegram like and literally you can go round, round and around. And I think that that's a really good answer you gave there. But you said about you know, kind of building, you know, walls around your mind and. Absolutely. With the content that people are consuming at the moment. It is funny when you say to people about like stop watching the news. And sometimes people will say oh well what if, you know, what if something happens, I need to know. And you're like no you don't. Like if something really important happens, someone will tell you. So it's. And, and it was, it was a game changer for me when you know I never ever buy newspaper. I never look at the only time I look at a like the news website is basically to see what and propaganda they, they're coming up with next. So you're not in there going oh I think some of this is real. It's like it's all lies, it's all propaganda, it's all agenda driven and they're funded by various powers that be. So it's just complete for the mind. So yeah, I totally agree. I might use that building walls for the mind. Assuming that let's say say the average guy listening to this has probably either got a partner or he might have as I know with several guys like have split with a partner and now he's looking to date him. But let's say the guy that is, you know, is a long term relationship like mine. I have been with emma for over 10 years now. I can never remember how long which really pisses her off. I know it's, it's at least double digits but how would you say a guy that's like, you know what I married but I'd like to improve my relationship. What one or two things do you think you could kind of chuck in as ideas for how he could improve his relationship with his wife or long term partner?

Yeah, that's a great question. First thing I would say is like really think about how present you are. How present are you actually? Because part of what discarding your mind allows you to do is you could spend 30 minutes with a woman but you're so present that you're both like wow, that was a great time. Like time just stops. And I think those experiences become rarer and rarer as relationship goes for a long time because you're just used to each other's experiences existence.

Yeah.

And you Think like, oh yeah, the. The other person's always there, but actually set out genuine time to shut off your phone, shut off everything else, and to just sit with each other and be present. And when you're having dinner, when you're having a date night, or when you're watching something actually be there, make her feel your presence and feel her presence as well. Like, look into her eyes and truly feel her energy when you look at her rather than looking at her. But having 10 different things to do in your mind.

Thinking about stuff and work and the football and you've got to fix the car and et cetera, et cetera.

Exactly. And just that small shift of you can even set an anchor of, like, when I'm gonna look at my partner, I'm just going to fully be there. And maybe you make a post it note, you put it on the fridge, whatever it is, you will find that she'll start responding to things differently. Like, a lot of, I think a lot of relationship problems people find themselves in occur because the woman doesn't feel truly seen. It's like, you're there, you're kind of aware of her existence, but you're not fully seeing her. And whenever she feels like your attention's pulled away, your presence is not as strong. That's when usually drama occurs. So I think just going back to the simplicity of, you know, if this was the first date you guys had, how present would you actually be? Right? You'd be, you'd be on your game.

Yeah.

If you really like sitting there scrolling and like, what? Yeah, yeah, I'm really listening.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. So building a practice around that. And I found the second thing I've done this in longer partnerships I were in is like having a shared goal. So me and my ex girlfriend, we would read a book together every month and we discuss like, hey, what did you get out of this book? What did you get out of this book? And there were books about healing work and relationships and sex sometimes. So find a subject you're both interested in and share that experience together. Because what you'll find is, especially with something like this, this will also spark discussions around certain subjects that maybe it's hard for you to naturally find yourself into. So, like, if you read a book about healing work, you can have a deep conversation about, hey, what are some things that make you insecure? Well, how do you feel about this?

Yeah.

And just having that present loving space for each other brings you so much closer and that makes the relationship so much more pleasant and so much More flowing as well.

It, it sounds, it's like, it sounds simple, doesn't it? But I bet so many men, fun of, you know, women listen to this podcast as well. I spoke to one this evening, was like, hey, I've been listening to your podcasts. I was like, yeah, great, great stuff. But so many men will, you know, will probably nod because you realize of an evening, by the time maybe you've been to work, you've put the kids to bed, you've had dinner, you've looked at your phone, you know, maybe the football's on, what have you that when do you ever have real time or make time? Because you know, everybody has the same 24 hours in a day but like just to have kind of be purely present and have connection with your partner. And I laughed when you said it because we've just had, or say we. Emma's just had our third boy. I say Emma because obviously men can't have babies. So let's be clear on that one. But in the first few nights after the baby was born, we would in our boys playroom when the kids were in bed, we would make the room really warm so the baby, we could kind of strip the baby off so it would just be like in its little nappy and we'd lay it on like my chest and you know, do skin to skin time. But you realize like we had no, you know, we've taken the TV out of that room and got rid of it and it was just us two and the baby just basically kind of laying in the room talking. And I realized that if we'd have been the lounge, we don't ever watch normal TV, but we'll have like YouTube on and we might be watching videos on preparing for the apocalypse or you know, growing your food or you know, being stronger on nutrition or you know, the government lockdown or just stuff like that. And it was like, yeah, when I. It was only now that the baby has arrived, little Farley, a little third one that we've actually given ourselves that time. And I loved it. So it's a, it's a good reminder to guys that you're partner might think you're mad if you're like, hey, should we just like do some stuff where we're just present with each other? But I think you've made a. You've made a great point. And on that you. We've led on to. One of the questions I want to ask you was daily steps a guy can take to become more attractive. So it doesn't Matter when he's got a partner. He hasn't if he's looking for one or he's not looking for one. Daily steps that a man can become more attractive, because what man doesn't want to become more attractive?

Right? Yeah, for sure. First of all, thanks for sharing that, and congrats on the third kid. That's a lot of kids.

Yeah, a lot of boys. It's a show sometimes, but.

That'S epic, man. In terms of daily steps, the simplest thing, and I think so many people overlook this, is get good sleep. Like, sleep well, prioritize sleep. Never sacrifice sleep for work or whatever it is. I mean, you're. You're a parent, so it might be a bit different. I don't know how. It's like when there's tiny humans running around and just completely out of control. But for anyone else who doesn't have that problem, get solid sleep because your sleep affects your mood so much, how rested you are, you know, be mindful of what you put in your body. Get a workout in, get some sunlight. Like, these basic things will completely shift your mood if you're not doing them already. So I would have at least those as a baseline, as well as drinking decent amounts of water. And in terms of I'd say something. Some things I'm more personally focused on is one of the things we do with our students is every day journaling what was my biggest win today. So could be simple, could be big. And then what did I learn today? So that you feel like you're progressing forward. We all want to feel that, hey, we're moving forward. And then in addition to that, how authentic was I today from 0 to 10? You pick a number. And the reason we added this question is I realized in my own life, the days where I held something in that I wanted to express, or the days where my mood wasn't as good as I wanted it to be, some things fell out of place. Whereas if I showed up authentically as much as I could, things moved a lot smoother. So shifting your attention to how authentically you're living life and asking yourself, like, what is my subtle intention by doing this? What is my subtle intention by going to the bar and ordering a drink? Do I really want a drink? Or am I just avoiding to speak to that woman that I saw and buying myself time? So asking that question in the background. And of course, what we talked earlier on, sitting and meditating, and I mean, like 30 minutes a day at least, really getting into that space of existing so you feel more Comfortable with existing because lots of suffering we create is because there is this need to just go through a constant to do list and there's always more things to do. And when I built a practice of just sitting and meditating, no matter how many things I had to do on my list, yeah, I realized like the moment is really in the present and when you do it long enough in a funny way, you become extremely productive because whatever you're doing, you're just doing that instead of thinking of 15 things in the background.

Us. It's a lot to take in there. And I agree. You know, just starting with the basics with a guy, you know, because it's. People often are desperate for the latest hack and the latest thing and the latest shortcut. And you're like, what about just doing your best to create a good sleep environment? You know, not eating so much, cutting down on alcohol or cutting it out, completely rid of negative people, doing some exercise, getting out. And it's like, these are all basically pretty much free, simple things. But you add all those little compound decisions together and you stack them and suddenly you know, you're, you're moving in the right direction.

Yeah.

And I think, funny, my next question had covered some of that, but I wanted to ask you about the Real Attraction system, which was based on the four principles of relaxation, expression, empathy, and leading. So I'll say that again for the guys because what was that? So is the real as in R E L the real attraction system based on relaxation, expression, empathy, and leading? Talk to me a bit about how you would implement this in someone's life.

Yeah, so this is the process we run our clients through. And as, as you said, it's a play on words. It's real with two E's because there's the principles, but it's real because it works. So the relaxation is the first part in the way we look at it is to build a building, you need to set the foundations first. And relaxation is the work that doesn't feel as sexy to learn. It's not as compelling as like, oh, let me teach you how to be interesting and good storyteller to the woman you meet. But it's like, how can you become a grounded guy who can step into any environment and knows how to relax whatever tensions coming up so that you're working with your mind and not against your mind. Your mind is not constantly bullying you, telling you you're not good enough, you're a loser. This girl would never look at you when you're speaking to a woman. But Instead, you know, some tension comes up in your body, you set your intention to relax it, and then you show up in whatever way you need to show up. And that's the foundation of, of the, of the building of the process. Because the first thing women want to feel from a man is that he's comfortable as much as he can be.

Yeah.

And he's relaxed. So from there, once someone's relaxed, we focus more on expression. So the core to expression is how can we show a guy to express his inner world without holding back, but also without exaggerating. I'm sure you coming from the uk, it's not as much of a thing, but in America, exaggeration is huge. You speak to someone. Everyone's been with DJ Khaled the day before partying until 4am and you know, my friend from the UK, he's a super humble guy. And I heard, like, in UK culture, that's a big thing, having some good banter, but being humble. So we teach a guy how to talk about things that are a bit controversial, but also how to not, like, grandize himself and be a guy who just comes off as cocky and trying to prove something. So that's the expression side, and that's why the authenticity is a daily question, because it's very important for that. Now, once a guy knows how to relax and how to express himself, now it shifts to how do we understand the woman in front of us a bit more? Because we have the mental space to actually think about the woman in front of us, Whereas before, it's all a battle in the head. How am I coming off? What do they think of me? But with the relaxation and tuning into our authentic self, we can shift the attention to, let me show some empathy for the woman in front of me. So that comes down to truly understanding, like, a woman's fears, insecurities, desires, and taking the time to build a lot of trust. Because trust is the foundation for desire to occur, especially if you want to attract a healthy woman into your life. You know, a lot of men are seduced by this idea of being this, like, sexual power horse who turns on any woman he meets. But a lot of that comes through trust. A woman feeling like, I can truly open up to this guy and he will take care of me, not in a monetary way, but an energetic way where you're not showing up to get what you want, you're showing up with her best intentions and what. What's best for her as well. And then from that place, we teach people how to take leadership so they can move situations forward without being intrusive or without feeling like they're being creepy. So that whatever experiences they have with woman, it's authentic, it's honest, and it's coming from a win win place. So that, that's the process from a higher level.

A good answer, mate. I'm impressed. And I think funny that the, the leading part of it is one thing that if people open their eyes, they realize we're lacking desperately across the world is leaders. I mean, look at the pathetic excuse for men that, I mean, let's just take the U.K. you know, it's, it's embarrassing to see the people that are supposedly in charge. And if they are in charge, then we're all so, so leadership and leader. You know, I've interviewed some really strong characters and guys that were special forces operators and you know, all different, kind of held some real big pressure, you know, positions and been in pressurized environments. And I would say real leaders and the people that I see in charge in the US and everywhere else are not leaders and are not fit to call themselves leaders. So that's a really big one. You know, I think for, for example, with me, I'm trying to lead my family as much as anybody else so that, that fun starts at home. And I wondered. Funny talking about the show of the, the people that are supposedly in charge. What I saw with lockdowns was so many people lost connection. And I don't mean their wi fi signal. I mean, you know, you know, if you're gonna, if you're gonna separate people, you know, what is the greatest punishment in prison is solitary confinement. And that is what they did to people. And I just wonder for guys now, you know, I, I've spoken to guys say recently in the last like year and seen how much lockdowns affected them. And guys who prior to that were confident and you know, happy. We call it happy go lucky and you know, no big kind of issues. And then found that especially if they lived on their own, that being forced to isolate and stay home for months and months and not see people really affected them. And I just wanted for yourself, like, you know, how did you cope? Because I know you said you, you basically kind of went, went off and traveled and therefore that was the, the best antidote to all the. But how did you find it also for guys that you've worked with?

Yeah, I found for me personally, I can't speak too much to it because I was one of the camp of like, there is no way. And I'm peacing out and I had the opportunity to just go to spots that have less restrictions and make the best of what was available. There were some countries I went to and then I go and expecting one thing, a few days later, things are in lockdown again. So there were still periods where I had to be mainly on my own. But I think one of the benefits of lockdown is like podcasts like this started happening more, online conversations started occurring more. And what I found for the guys I was working with at that time is our virtual community grew even stronger because people didn't have that as face to face connections as much as they would have liked.

Yeah.

So I think a big part of like people going through that, it's allowed them to like look at alternative avenues to find a community that they can belong to. Because I think before people were a lot more geared towards finding something local. But sometimes the people who share similar beliefs to you, who really have good interest for you at heart, they're not going to be physically in the same place. I mean you're in the uk, I'm in the us. We're having this crazy conversation.

Yeah.

So I think of course it, it sucked for people to get, just get sucked up at home and be on their own, especially if they also consumed all the negative content getting their brain working even more in a state of fear. But I think there was also a lot of good that came out of that. Whereas now coming out of that situation, the average guy is a lot more open to virtual support and virtual mentorships and people are now in these communities of just webs around the world with like minded other people.

Yeah, no, that's, that's a really good point. I mean at the time when this interview kind of goes out, we will be getting closer to launching a whole Man Academy membership. And two parts of that are firstly about building a community of like minded guys. Because we always say you might be friends with guys which you like hanging out with, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they're trying to build their best version of themselves or you know, they're trying to like live an epic life. So that's one of the parts of it. And also which would involve some digital, you know, zoom calls and stuff like that, which I think is really helpful, especially through other countries, but also encouraging guys to get back together and you know, get out in nature especially. So you kind of, you know, you leave the tech behind, the wi fi and 5G and God knows what else is doing our brains in and actually get out. And you Know, have dinner by the fire and have deep conversations and you know, a good community of guys around. So that's, that's one thing I totally agree with. It's lockdown, I think, you know, has been disastrous in some ways, but at least it's made more people firstly realize the power of like what we're doing now, the kind of digital community. And also I think a lot of people have turned around now and gone who the is in charge. Like this is a joke. So I, I'm all for that basically, you know, people being more questioning of, of things, what's going on in the world. I think is, is very important. But we'll to tie this up because I think it's been great and I'm so pleased we've spoken. But like you're a fairly young guy I would say and therefore what, where do you go from here? Like what's your plan with kind of taking your knowledge and your expertise on this?

Yeah. So personally, few things I'm prioritizing now is I spent the last two years traveling around a lot, meeting people from different countries and now that I have a base in the U.S. my mission is to really scale what we do and help as many people as we can. And that's going to happen in two ways. The first part is really putting out a lot of good free content, having conversations like this so that people don't just need to come to me and pay me money to get stuff, but they can just listen to this and take something away from it.

Yeah.

And then the second part of what we're working on at the moment is finding a way to gamify the whole stage of development. So what are the key actions a man has to take day in and day out? And how can we almost incorporate a video game tier system into making self development feel good? Because I used to be addicted to League of Legends. They had a great reward system. I spent way too much time on that game. And you know, I come from a background of computer science. My head coach is also doing research in like AI and computer science. So this is something that we've just been starting out now where we're adding elements of gamification into our mentorship so that as people do the necessary steps that are already good for them, they also get extrinsic rewards for it, which increases the intrinsic motivation for them to do it. And now this has a crazy level of just stickability and people actually look forward to whatever it is they need to do to become a better version of themselves. So I think for me, at least the next year, and I'm not a guy with a five year plan, like, if I thought I wouldn't have thought I'd be here five years ago.

Yeah.

So my one year plan is to really focus on this and spread the knowledge that I built onto as many people as I can.

I think it's great. And you made a good point there. You know, we've said on the podcast before that you can make plans and I think it's good to have them, but you know, life is going to throw curveballs at you or sometimes you just might meet someone who suddenly you're, you know, you get a new opportunity or becomes a business partner or they make a new connection. So you never quite know what life is going to throw at you and be sure that life's going to throw certain things at you. So, yeah, no, it's, it's been really good. But listen, I, I appreciate your time. I've, I've really enjoyed this podcast because, yeah, we've not really talked about dating or relationships in such before. We've covered plenty of morning routines and strength coaches and stuff like that. But this has been a real eye opener. And also, you know, I, I'll kind of look forward to watching your progress from over here. And I was going to ask you, any plans to come to the UK at all?

Yeah, so I was born in Turkey, which means I need a visa to come anywhere.

Yeah.

But I'm working on kind of like getting settled in the US a bit once I handle a few things. One of the first things on my agenda is going over to Europe and doing a tour. So if I'm ever there, I'll definitely hit you up and we can have some meat over the fire. That would be nice. Or go into nature. That'd be epic, man.

That's exactly it. Because that's one of the things, you know, the last few guys I've interviewed on the podcast have pretty much all been in either the US or a long way away. And I always think, wow, my network has exploded since I started the whole man academy and especially the podcast. You know, I said I was interviewed. I've been on three different podcasts in the last, like week, so I kind of forget which interview I was on where I said, like, for you and I, we would never have, in theory, paths would never have crossed and kind of connected and learned from each other. Maybe without the podcast. That's what it has given me is then I might recommend someone else to speak to you or use someone else for the podcast. And, you know, we all kind of like, you know, help each other, if that makes sense. So it's always good to connect, but. Right, well, I will let you go. I appreciate your time and it won't be the last time we speak to each other.

Yeah, it's been a great time. And I think to finally tie the point you said is this is why it's important to live that authentic truth. Because if I didn't live my authentic truth and you didn't live your authentic truth, we wouldn't have never had this conversation. And there are people who listen to this conversation will be inspired to live theirs. So I think it's important for men to remember that them living their authentic truth is not just the best for them, but it's the best for the world because a lot of good things come out of that.

Yeah, we're going to need that in the next couple of years, I think. So more men being strong, questioning and authentic, basically. But. Right. Well, on that bombshell, I appreciate your time. Okay. And I'll speak to you soon. Cheers, then.

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