EP136 - MEN BECOME KINGS - CRAIG CASSIDY | WHOLE MAN ACADEMY

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And call to adventure. Are you ready? Okay. So this is the whole Mad Academy podcast, episode 136. My guest today from a long way away is Craig Cassidy, founder of Real Modern Kings. Father. Lots to talk about with this guy. I've been kind of stalking him online for a while and enjoy his his content. So Craig, let's start off with how are you? And tell the guys where you are, brother.

Guys, I welcome, welcome to the conversation with us and thank you brother for having me on.

Pleasure.

I am in Gold Coast, Australia. I would say one of the best spots in Australia. Gold coast is I guess I imagine the Miami or the California of, of America maybe born and bred in the country, moved here about 12 years ago. So country boy and I'm good brother, I'm happy to be on. It's 4am here in the morning so came to have this early morning conversation. Morning is my time.

So yeah, this is important because firstly, I mean you've said off there that you get up at 4:27 in the morning, which you're gonna have to explain that obviously. But this is one of the big things for guys I talk about is, you know, some people, I do think some people have different like body clocks. Some people are more like night owls and others are happy to get up early in the morning. And I'm kind of that kind of 5:45 to 6:00am is my thing because I like, I often stay up late to work on stuff till 11 or 12 o' clock at night when the house has gone quiet. But we've got a shitload to go through today. We talk about social media followers, which I think is interesting moves a man can make. Garrett J. Wyatt we're going to talk about as well, you know, being a victim, fatherhood. We've got a lot to cover. But firstly, give us the reason why you get up so early.

4:27Am the reason I get up so early is because that's my time. So people will say, do you think I should get up at the same time? I'm like, I don't know, does it Work for you? Like yeah, it's not a, like I'm not the 5am Club, you know. I don't say you should get up this time because I don't. I just get up at that time because that's when I feel the best. That's my genius time I call it. You know, that's when I wait. I feel the best over night time. I work really well as well but I've got all, I've made a ton of thoughts and decisions throughout the day. I've got a ton of stuff on my mind from clients and all this stuff. In the morning I wake up and I'm clear. So that's really the reason I get up at that time number one. Number two is I have a little boy and I'm a single dad, so that's my time. He gets up at 7am it gives me a few hours in the morning with zero interruptions to get done what I need to get done. And 4:27, everybody always asked. It's just a weird number. So it's, it's easy to say no one else is doing it and it's just my number. It makes it like. Not that I'm going to forget 430 but 427 just sounds different. So if I'm being honest, that's why.

There'S a book in there somewhere, the 427 Club. But I was going to ask you because fatherhood is a such a massive part of so many guys lives and you know a lot of the men through the whole man academy have got either grown up kids and, or little ones and you know our nearly 7, nearly 5 and 10 months old and all boys and they have unlimited energy. I mean the, the little one's just about standing up on his own and kind of, you know, we think he said dad today for the first time. I'm just putting that one out there. But it's hard enough being a dad with a partner, but being a single dad. And again I knew single moms when I was younger and I had no, I had no appreciation for how challenging it could be. So what's that been like for you and how many years I was shaped. First one, how many years have you been, let's call it a single father.

Oh man, that, that, that's a probably a long conversation but the short of it is I've been a single dad now for five and a half years. Yeah, 50% of the time. So he's got a beautiful mother and she's a great mother. She's she's brilliant with him. So she has him 50% of the time, her and her partner, he's great as well. We have a great co parenting relationship as we, as everybody says, when we get along, when we get along. We don't, we don't, but most of the time we do. We're good compared to most people, so that helps a lot. On the 50% of the time that I have him, I have him 100% of the time. That's why I created my business in the way in which I did. I believe. I'm a big believer that we're here to serve the people that we love. Our kids being one of those things. So I've created my life and my business so that I can pick him up from school, I can drop him off to school, I can be at every event that he's got. When I pick him up from school, he's got me 100%. Yeah. So to answer your question, it's been challenging. It definitely has. Especially whilst trying to grow a business. I don't have a partner that helps out or any of these things. So I've never ever had a babysitter. I've never asked anybody for help. And I don't say that as a flex because to be honest, I would say to everyone, like, get a good babysitter, you know, get that. I just never have, like, I just, I've just. I love my time with my little boy and I wouldn't change it for anything. So it's been challenging, but it just comes down to having a really structured day to be really intentional with your time. The weeks I don't have him, I work a hell of a lot more. I double down. So the weeks I do have him, I can really show up.

Yeah.

And I think whether you're a single father or not, that's your responsibility. When you're there, be there, really show up. And that may mean that you have to sacrifice in other areas or that may mean you have to work harder. And as a single father, that's your job. He's single fathers complaining about how hard it is. And, you know, I only see him every second weekend because I've got to, you know, do this in business and I've got to do that. Like. But what about your kid? Your kid didn't ask to be here. So it's not them that has to adjust their life for you, it's you that should adjust your life for them. That's your responsibility, I believe, and in the best way you can, but it's challenging. Yeah, yeah. And. And guys say, oh, it's so hard. Like. Yeah, it is, it is. You made that choice when it's two.

Of you, let alone one of you.

Yeah. Well, I believe that's what it means to be a man and to be responsible.

Yeah.

Like your meaning of being a man is being responsible and it's evolution. That's your purpose, to evolve to suit whatever situation that you're in. If you're a single father, you evolve to match that. That's your responsibility. Like that. That's. So, yeah, it's challenging, but it's, it's. I wouldn't change a thing. I love it. It's. Honestly, if I'm anything above all else, I'm a father. I love being a dad to my little boy, Tatham Noah, and there is nothing else in this world that lights me up as much as that. So, yeah, every, every worth it.

You've said exactly how I feel. To be honest, it's. You know, I don't think I knew how much I appreciated being a dad or would do until I had one, two and then three babies, you know, and they'll always be my babies, no matter how big they get. And I find with some of the, some of the guys through the whole man academy, again, minor, let's say little boys, but, you know, some of my friends have got boys that are now like 6 foot 3 and they're 17 and they're driving and we know, as they say, you know, you don't. They don't need as much of your help, but they need as much guidance. And maybe as you're older, it's less about your physical being there and it's more about trying to, you know, not tell them what to do with, but like, let them learn whilst you're passing on a bit of wisdom. So that's an interesting one. And we'll come back to father as well, because I think that links to, again, us being able to be men with, how can I put it, like living in alignment with your values. Because if you're not up for your kids, I think that kind of subconsciously that's going to eat away at you. But first question going on to, I mean, I met you, let's say through. We were both on Garrett J. White's four day program, but I was going to ask you, what's your relationship like with social media? Because not only do you run part of your, let's say, you know, your business through it, but also you don't want to be on social media when your kids, you know, for me, when your kids see you, which is really hard. So relationship with social media for you?

Look, I, I think social media is great. I, if I didn't have my business, I wouldn't have it. So that sounds very contradictory because in one hand I'm saying it's great, in the other hand I wouldn't have it. I think it's great for that reason. It's a tool just like anything else. And a tool can either be used or it can use you. And if you let social media, it will use you, it will eat you up, it will suck your time, it will suck you in. That's what it's there for. That's what marketing is. It's literally there to suck you in. It's, you know, most of the coaches out there and most of the, most products, most services are making content for clickbait. They want you to click on something, they want to suck you in. They're not necessarily giving you value. So I think that's where people have to be careful. It's where when I make content, I try to always make sure it's something that's going to give value that people can use. I never want to be part of the problem running a business. So my business is somewhat off social media in the sense that I run it through my own platform and all the thing, but all of my marketing and me putting content out is through social. So I believe that if you have a value to give to the world, then it's a great way you can do that, you can give that knowledge. But I think as much as it is a tool and it can add value, it can completely destroy lives. So for me, I'm very, and I think this is, this is probably, this is what I say to all my men that are in my community and all the people I work with use it as that tool and have strict boundaries. Just the same as in your relationship, just the same as in your business with friends. Have strict boundaries with social media. I use it at these times and this is what I use it for. If you find yourself going down the rabbit hole of scrolling and trying to get validation from posts or you're posting something for any other reason than to add that value or on there, any other reason to gain the value, then you're getting sucked down the rabbit hole. You're procrastinating. So when I pick my little boy up from school, for instance, from that point, for two hours, no social media, the odd here and there I'll do a little story and that'll take 15 seconds. Because I'm a dad and I coach men that are dads. So, you know, I like to share some of that within reason. There's a lot I don't share. Yeah. But I have boundaries as to when I use it and at the times and things. Like, I think it's great. I. And I think it's a tool, but you've got to make sure that you're using it and it's not using you.

Yeah, I think. I think you've nailed it. It's a really important one to, like, say, use it and don't let it use you. I always say to a guy like, are you creating or are you consuming? Because the amount of time you can use and, you know, we've all done it where you go to message. You know, I could go to message you. And then 10 minutes later I'm like, oh, what, like watching football? And I'm like, what was I doing? I can't remember. And then phone down. I'm like, Craig, I meant to be texting him.

Yeah, yeah.

But, yeah, the. The crate. Not consumer. And the other thing I found, you know, we haven't got a big following on social media, but of course I know people that have. And a great example is Carl Carnahan, the superhuman fathers who's. Whose following has grown because he posted one clip which was him having a go at his son saying, stop being a. Basically. And I think that's had like one and a half million views. And people often think that the key is going viral on something. But I've listened to people before that have said they had a really good. They went viral on one particular topic. And all that did, really was bring in loads of people, half that didn't like them and half that did and end up with so much like arguing online that you end up being like, hell, I've actually created a monster.

Yeah.

I myself, I interviewed a guy called Dr. Anthony Chaffee, which you might see in my Instagram. Who's that kind of Carnivore, Maryland. Who's American, based out in Australia. And you know the numbers for us, I think for each of the three reels I've put. We've had a combined like 75, 000 views or something, which is a lot for our little channel. But then you get 36 comments and some of them are like, carnivore is the best thing. It's. It's transforming. Then the other people are like, that's Total rubbish. Show me the studies. And I'm like, oh my God, like I can't even be bothered to get involved with it, if that makes sense. So it's. Yeah, I know it's a tough one, but. Well, let's talk. I want to talk about personal development because we met through a four day thing with Garrett Garrett JY on his program which was, I don't know, six months ago now or something like that. Yeah, I remember him talking to you and he picked me as one of the people to talk to as well. And I've said on one of my interviews I was like, my heart rate went through the roof because I was in the room I'm in now. I'd been on, you know, for like five hours sitting there listening and then suddenly he's like, are we going to speak to Anthony? And I was like, because it's like, I realize I don't really give a. About most people's opinions, but when I was on that call, there's a lot of people on that call that I really respect. So I was like, I don't want to say something stupid. And I felt like a. I felt a bit like a kid again. So. Yeah, who do you. When I say follow, you know what I mean? It's not that you're following, but who are the guys that you're kind of following their journey and learning from? Maybe Garrett and other people as well.

Yeah, I would say it changes depending on my season, so to speak. So, you know, because people will go, oh, this is the guy I always follow. I'm like, okay, he's great at business. But what about who's the guys you follow when you're in a season of wanting to be a better dad or who's a guy you follow in a season of wanting to have a deeper connection in your relationship. So, you know, and a lot of these guys try to be everything to everybody, but you've got to pick the parts that align with you and your values. One of the problems is I think for men, they don't know their values so they will just to that one person's everything. And it's like, well, do you really like the way that he is as a father or as a partner? Do you really like this guy, the way he speaks to his kids? Like choose people for how they align with you and who you want to be? You know, one of the guys I follow and. And is actually my coach at the moment is Wes Watson. And yes.

Is that the chat in the US that was in Prison and then came.

Out and has a big 10 years and all the thing. Yeah. And very much what you were speaking about earlier. Very much, you know, made content that went vi viral and, you know, and now he's just blown up and he's, you know, legitimately, he's absolutely crushing it in the areas that he's in. Do I want to be like him in every area? No way. Like, I'm very abrupt and I can be very fluent. It's why men work with me, because they know I'm not going to sugarcoat things. And if there's anyone going to get them out of their way, it's me. But am I going to get online and, you know, and I will. I do in my stories occasionally, if I get quite passionate, but very rarely am I online calling people pussies. And I definitely don't speak a certain way in front of my little boy. Yeah. It's polarizing and it works for him and it's who he is. Yeah. So, you know, it's picking the bits and pieces, but he always says it, like, when you see someone, if you admire someone for something, then that admiration is a sign that that's something that you possibly want within you or it's already within you. So I look at people, I'm like, what do I admire them for first? Yeah, because that's potentially what I might want to learn off them. But don't then go, well, I admire them so much. It's like movie stars. I admire them for the movie star they are. So I watch everything they do. We'll be careful because our eyes and ears are what absorb, like, what we're looking at, and we start to become all the parts of that. Choose the parts that suit you. So for me, Garrett. Garrett was a big one for a long time, probably more than anything, because he is one of the best in the industry at what he does, not necessarily for who he is as a man and all the things he stands for. More so. Because if I'm being honest, it's not about what he stands for, it's about how he stands. And this is what I say to men. Like, if you, like, what's it mean to be a man, you know what you stand for and you know what you stand against, and you have the courage to take that stance. So for him, he has the courage to take that stance. Agree with him or not as irrelevant. Yeah, because you're missing the point. The point is he knows exactly who he is, he knows what he stands for, and he's Happy to pivot, he's happy to shift that stance. When he goes, you know what, I was wrong. We've seen it when he went from being a hard out Christian to not Christian then to Christian, but, you know, against the church and all the thing, Christian or not, he was happy to go, well, this is what I did believe. And people are like, oh, you know, you used to believe this. Like he's. And he's like, I don't give a. Yeah, I've changed. That's what I used to believe. Yeah. But now I don't. Now I believe this, like it or lump it. Leave me or not. He didn't care whether it drowned his business or whether it blew up his business, you know, so for him it's that I like that, I like that he knows what he stands for, what he stands against, and he has no qualms whatsoever in taking that stance. And it's inspiring because it doesn't say you have to be like me, but what it does say is that you have to be like you and you have to work out what that is. So love Garrett White for that. Again, Wes Watson.

So again, probably it's a really interesting question with Wes because I'm always interested in, let's call it mentorship for want of a better label. And sometimes it's hard as a man because people are like, oh, do you do coaching? Like, well, you do kind of coaching, but also sometimes you're mentoring, sometimes you do tell someone what to do. You know, it's a hybrid of all those things I think is the best person because yeah, some men sometimes are like, could just tell me what to do, like what's the best thing? And I'll this works for me. Try that first. And if it doesn't work. So, so with Wes, what does that look like? Is it, you know, it's obviously on Zoom. I assume he's based in the states all the time, so it's on Zoom. But like how often would you check in and what, what, what kind of strategy does that take?

With Wes, he's essentially most people there, he's got multiple programs. I'm in his elite or top tier program, whatever you want to call it. Yeah. So those guys are there to learn how to blow up their business. Essentially you get a one on one call with him when you come on board. I get multiple one on one calls. You get, he does your nutrition in your diet, whether you want to do it or not. That's a non negotiable. You're going to get Fit and you're going to follow the plan. Otherwise, get the out. Basically, because your body is your one area. There's a weekly for me, it's 8am on a Monday, I think it's Sunday. Some stage for them. There's a weekly call, which is your, you know, your coaching call, your elite call. And he teaches a little bit about what he's had going on for the week. And generally you just get on there and ask your questions, but don't dare ask a question, do not dare take up time on that call if you haven't done what he's asked you to do, because he will absolutely destroy you. And when the first call I listened to was a recording and because I, you know, had a. I, I joined up and I had a few days before, so I jumped in and watched some of the recordings. And this, this guy had asked a question and the guy had like, where's it? He'd made it clear, did you do what I asked you to do? And the guy, yeah. And he went forward and asked the question anyway and he hadn't done. What was it asked him to do. And he just absolutely destroyed him to the point where I'm sitting there going, I don't know if I'm in the right place here.

Yeah.

Like, this isn't emotional awareness. This isn't. But. And this is where people attack him for that. And he does get. Some guys have been in his program, have gone out and they're making a name off of his name by badmout, nothing him. And, you know, saying that he's emotionally unstable and all these things. But I watched. I've been doing this for over a decade, so I know psychology and I know. And I watched him. I watched the way in which he perceivably attacked this guy. But then I watched how he turned it around. Yeah. And I watched him softened in the back end. And this guy got a great lesson and so did everyone on the call. And he took it away from attacking the guy and projected it to everybody to show a lesson, somewhat at this guy's expense. But I also watched this guy by the end of the call, sitting there nodding, going, yeah, like. And this is the thing, like, people are sorry, I can be quite abrupt. And people say sometimes, oh, you know, you sound so angry. I'm like, I'm not angry. I'm just very, very passionate about getting men out of their own way. And to be honest, I'm passionate about helping kids.

Yeah.

And I don't like if I've got to Hurt your feelings to have you show up better for your kids. I'm all good with that. I won't do that unnecessarily. But. So if he's got to hurt someone's feelings to get them out of their way, to get them a result, that's what he does. So, you know, people, he gets a bad rap that. Would I coach like him? Probably not. Do I agree with the way he speaks or everything as. No, but I'm not him. I don't need to. Yeah, as long as he agrees with it, that's all that matters, you know, So I think he's great. I think he. He looks at every, you know, basically he's going to show you how he does things. And he says this. He's like, why would I teach you any other way when this is the way that I've done it? You want to learn a different way, go to a different coach. You know, he's not trying to be everything to everybody. He's like, you come in here watching me all the time if you think I'm going to tell you anything different. He's not telling you to be him. He's telling you to do the steps that he's done in your own way. So, yeah, I've got a lot of value out of being there, to be honest. And he's definitely not for everybody. And, and not. I don't mean personality wise. I mean business structure wise. If you're not wanting to be very active in socials and all these things, it's not for you. If you want to build funnels and do all that, he's. He's not for you.

Yeah.

You know, if you want to, you know, automate and get on that side.

Of things, there is someone for everybody, isn't there? And that's where one of the big things I was on, interviewed on podcasts just for Christmas, and I said very much like you said, you know, just because you're following, let's call it following someone, whether you're paying them or not. Like, you don't have to, like, worship them to be able to take great value. And you might even learn something for people you don't like. And it's funny, I wrote an article last year which caused various people to, like, have a meltdown because I said, I picked certain people and said, look, even if you don't like them, and even if I don't like them, there can still be lessons you might learn from what they say. And if you only surround yourself with people that agree with you all the time, then you're just going to be like an echo chamber of yes men. And I agree, like, I look at, let's say, Wes on, on Instagram and you might look and be like, some people would hate the way he talks. Whereas I think it's kind of, you know, I think it's. When I say it's funny, it's very direct. And I, I would, that would work for me with some of the guys in the whole man academy. When you would say about direct, like when he called it real talk, I know some people will just melt under that and they just come. Whereas a lot of the other guys are like, that's what I needed once was to be like, stop hiding. You're not, you know, you're not doing what you say you're gonna do. What kind of dad are you for your kids? Get on with it. And some people will just melt, other people will kind of grow with it. And it was, I think it was one of the biggest takeaways for me when Garrett spoke on the event where he said, you know, one of your jobs is to be as polarizing as possible as quickly as possible.

Yeah.

Because you will either attract people or push them away and you're doing them a favor. And I was like, yeah, you know, that was, that was powerful stuff. But so. Well, let's, let's talk about real modern kings because again, like the whole man academy, I know it's not easy creating a men's movement, or maybe you found it was, but. And we touched off, off air about the fact that American personal development is different to especially the uk, Australia. So give me kind of a rundown of like what that journey's been like.

It's been, it's been great. It's been really, really good. I, I love, I love real modern kings. I love the group coaching space. Why I say that now is because I didn't at the start. It was. I, I love one on one coaching. I love sitting down with another man, digging into their stuff, looking at where they're at and moving them from where they are now to where they want to be. You know, I say this to men when they come on board with me. I do two things. I expand your mind to the possibilities of what's possible for you beyond what you currently believe. And I collapse time. I get you there faster. When you're working one on one with men, you get to see that in real time and you get to see that every week. You're catching up, you know, multiple times through messages and stuff throughout the week and you're genuinely moving someone along in their relationship, in their fitness, in their business, in their mindset and you're watching them about. And I love that. I genuinely love it. I love that connection. Most of my one on one clients become good friends. Yeah, I always say I wouldn't work with you if I wouldn't sit down and have a meal with you. So for years I resisted starting group and I knew it was the thing to do. Like I coached business. So I know it's one impact, you can make a bigger impact in group and two, it's you can scale group, you can't scale one to one past a certain point. So. But I was so resistant to it if I'm being honest. For RMK's been running now for going on three years and I've still got guys out of the first ever intake that are in there now. It's only a 12 month program. So for me that shows success in and of itself. The guys keep signing up every year. So for about seven years I did one to one and I knew the whole time I did programs. Brendan Burchard, you asked guys who I look to. Brendan Burchard's someone who I, you know, I love his content. I, I, you know, he's got, he's One of the OGs. Dr. Wayne Dwyer, Jim Rohn, Ed Mylett. Love Edmollett. I was in Arete Syndicate. Yeah. Ed and Andy Frisella. So it was probably actually the Arte syndicate where I really shifted maybe three years ago. And I watched the impact they were making and I watched they were doing these group calls and that inspired me. It was that inspiration and I admired how they held a group like that. And that's when I actually decided to go, you know what, I need to dive in and do this thing. And it's been a journey. You know, I've started out slow because I never wanted one of the, one of the things I didn't want to ever do was have a cookie cutter program where everybody does the same thing. And I'm like, but how do you run a program to a large scale without having a cookie cutter aspect to it? And I've managed to be able to do that. The guys, I don't have a 75 hard. They all do the same thing. We work out each guy's habits to suit them and you know, to get them what they want. So that's been the biggest challenge, is being able to do it in the way which I still stand for. What I stand for. Maintaining a genuine brotherhood has been another big challenge and it always will because the bigger I grow, the harder it becomes to keep that genuine connection and that brotherhood without people just becoming a number. That would be, I'd say, the biggest challenge other than probably marketing in Australia. So I don't know what this is like in the uk. I definitely know in the States personal development's been around and it's been quite mainstream for a long time. And seemingly, and don't get me wrong, Garrett and all these guys are great marketers. So you know, they're marketing very well and a lot of them don't do one on one calls to sign someone up and all these things. People just are diving in seemingly. You know, in Australia I'm working with men and men don't want to ask for help. Like let's be real, men don't want to, to be on a call every week. They don't want to be in a group, you know, chat and stuff every day. They don't want to have to check in and be held accountable. They don't want that. They need that. So getting a man to actually say I need this and not only do I need this, but I need to pay for this, that's probably been the challenge in the sense that if someone reaches out to me, they're generally ready to go because I'm similar to what, you know, Garrett said, I'm quite polarizing at times in my content. So they know if they're going to reach out and get on a call, then they're probably better be ready to go. Otherwise they don't reach out. So I generally don't have trouble if someone reaches out, but it's the guy sitting on the fence, they'll send a little message here and there and then they don't take action. And it can get quite frustrating. That's probably been my biggest frustration with group coaching is the guy at one on one coaching. You don't need as many clients, you know you're looking for. You know, I'm signing up a client every few months because I don't have room for anymore.

Yeah.

Whereas now wanting to scale, we're looking for a big group of clients. So you're dealing with a lot of tire kickers, let's call it.

Yeah.

And they kind of want help, kind of know they need the help, but oh, I'm just not ready or it's just not the right time. And that frustrates me. Not because of the growth of my business, but, but because I Get the shits. Because I'm like, am I allowed to swear on here?

Yeah, you say whatever you want, mate.

I'm like, your kids are at home. Yeah. And they deserve the best version of you. The fact that you're even reaching out tells me that you're not that right now. And you're going to allow, you know, what's. What should be a small amount of money to be the problem or time or your ego saying, oh, but, you know, I'm going to get uncomfortable. You deserve to be uncomfortable. You've got kids at home that need the best version of you.

Yeah, you need to be uncomfortable.

You know, so that. That's been one of the more frustrating aspects of group coaching for me, but it's been great. It's a great journey. It's. It's very fulfilling watching a community of men come together. And that. That's the biggest challenge, is creating the culture. That would be the. The. Probably the. You know, I said there's been a lot of biggest challenges here, but the other one would be creating a culture and then keeping that culture, because there's always new guys coming in and it's just like business. You know, I coach. I don't coach so much anymore, but I used to coach a lot of businesses, real estate agents and things like this, with teams creating that culture and understanding that any new person that comes in has to adopt that culture, has to be on board with that culture, has to know what it stands for, know the values, know the mission, and be on board with it. Because one person can become a cancer in a business very quickly. You know, colluding one guy. And this is the thing. Ego is, you know, a very, very sneaky thing. Ego will kick in and they start to sabotage themselves, but they don't want to look like it's them, so they'll start to collude with other people. So, you know, maintaining that culture and having everybody buy into that has been one of the biggest things. And I think that just comes from, you know, and you would potentially say the same. You're the leader. Everything stems from you. If you're even the slightest bit off, if you miss, if you're not strong in your stance, that will bleed out through your whole community. Yeah, it's a big responsibility. You know, this is another thing that come up with the group coaching in the early days, and this was big for me is I think I'd gotten to about 15, maybe 20 members, and it was probably. It was in the first year of launching RMK and. And it was a positive. On this call, I had some guys sharing some wins. I've had guys tell me that they're still here now because of me. I didn't know that when they stepped in, they didn't share that. I've had guys say, my kids wouldn't have a father right now if it wasn't for you in this program. And I've had guys go from, you know, $110,000 a year to 2.2 million with one guy in nine months and completely change his life and his kid's life. And for me, the win's not the money, it's the kids. It's the life that's changing there. But having all these stories shared and, you know, saving the marriage and, you know, messages off wives saying, oh, my God, you've given me my partner back. Like, all these things are great, and they feel really good. Until they got really overwhelming.

Yeah.

Until one day I was sitting there and I'm like, holy, this is on me. Like, I felt this overwhelming pressure because I know where RMK is going, and I'm like, one day this is going to be hundreds, if not thousands of men.

And then how'd you cope with that on me?

There's a lot of pressure here. Like, there's guys that are coming into my program that are thinking, like, I'm. I'm on my last legs. Like, if this doesn't work for me, I'm out. Yeah, I'm checking out of this world. There's so many men out there right now that it's a constant thought daily, some men that I just don't want to be here, and I'm just going to get through one more day. And when they reach out to you, they're reaching out to you looking for a savior. And I say, I'm not your savior. Yeah, I can give you the path and the work and, you know, but at the end of the day, it is a lot of responsibility. So at the early stages of rmk, that was a huge amount of. It lasted about three days. And, I mean, it was actually quite debilitating.

Yeah.

It actually had me very much just stuck in this. Like. Like, this is so much pressure. And until I shifted it and went, no, this is my calling. This is the calling that's been in my heart for a long time. I've wanted to make this impact for a long time, and I can deal with that pressure. I'm calling them to be the best version of them. It's time for me to step up and be the best version of me. If anyone can do this, it's me. And it's not completely on me because it's also on them and the bigger community. Well, it's called real modern kings. So they're kings, they're leaders. So I'm not the only leader in that community. Each and every individual is a leader and it's up them to show up fully for each other as well. So been hugely rewarding at times, as you can see from what I just shared. You know, overwhelming, but in a good way for. For good reason. And I'm sure you've probably experienced the same. And I just genuinely believe every human has a calling on their heart to be. Do have something bigger in this world. And you've got to answer that calling because when you do it, is it, is it going to scare you? Yep. Overwhelming as for days at the end that time. And if you never feel that, I genuinely feel sorry for you because if you never feel that overwhelm or that fear or you don't get scared about your goals or vision or dreams, then you're not thinking big enough.

Yeah.

Yeah. And I've got a big vision for rmk and it's exciting, it's a little bit scary. But I'm here for all of it. And I made one promise when my little boy was born. I want to teach him that he can do anything he wants in this world. And I'm a fraud and a liar if I don't do the same. Yeah. Dad's trying to teach their kids they can do everything, but then sitting in a relationship that they don't like anymore, existing in the same house with a partner in a job that they hate, you know, but then trying to teach their kids, you can do anything you want in this world, buddy. Like, and their kid one day growing up to go, you're a fraud, dad.

And you know, like, I still want.

To be that bad.

I always think for guys I know after I was in a career that I kind of. Basically I didn't. It's not that I like was suicidal to leave. I was just like, I'm done with this. You know, it's just drained on you. And I know that if I'd have carried on doing that, everything else would have been a bit of a lie because you can pretend you're, you're happy and you know, I was earning good money and you know, doing. I was kind of got to an elite level of fitness doing obstacle course racing around the world. So, you know, on the outside you'd be like, oh, everything's great. And. And literally day to day, it was like a little tap dripping on your back. And I always say for guys, it's taken me a long time to maybe put all the pieces together of what is the whole man academy. And I wonder if you with real modern kings, because for me, or what I realized was, and I kind of literally have a structure now, I say, look, a lot of the guys that I work with are in the gap. And that gap is they've got a silent struggle, like you say, relationship, their job, their fitness, their health, you know, their money, whatever it is. But then have they got the attitude and intentions to do something about it? Because I know, I bet you do. Some people just want to moan about it and woe is me. And you're like, yeah, but if you do this, this, this, you'll, you'll sort it out. And they don't want to. But I see my role now and it literally clicked a while ago. And because like you said, you're not someone's savior, but you can try and give them tools, techniques, ideas. And I say my job now is to activate the drive in a man. Because I think most men have driven somewhere, or maybe they were years ago, but life, you know, society, maybe relationships, work, have kind of like beaten you down to the fact you've forgotten what you're capable of. So it's really interesting. Listen to your kind of path, your story. It's exactly the same for me where you realize once some of the men in your. And we call it the network, which is our membership, you know, are making moves and doing things they could have done months or years ago but hadn't because they didn't have someone else like you, me, or whatever to be like, what the you doing? Like, what are you doing today? What's your focus, what you're working on? So I think that's, you know, it's, it's interesting here you say, because again, I, I resonate with that so much. But I wondered for you with let's say, real modern kings, or just generally, what do you think? Not what are the top three things for a man to work on or struggle, but what are the common things you see come up over and over again for you out there?

Probably the biggest problem, I guess, is identity, right? I would say number one would be knowing who they truly are. And this is the thing most men don't actually know. That's their problem. Most men have never actually been asked to articulate, like, who are you? What do you stand for? What are your values? Like, they'll throw a heap of, you know, generic. Like, oh, I value. And I value, you know, honesty. And, you know, a man that keeps his word. I'm like. And even that. Okay, cool. Do you keep your word? Yeah, I'm a man of my word. Okay. Do you owe anyone money that you said you were given money or did you get up when you said you, you know, you get up this morning. Oh, yeah, but, you know, but to other people, I keep my word. I'm like, okay, but you don't keep your word to yourself at 5am when your alarm goes off. Yeah, like, have you eaten the, the way you said you were going to eat for the last week? Oh, well, yeah, yeah. Like, you know, like they break their word to themselves every day. So when you dig into it, even the things they say are their value, they don't actually do. And show me what you do. I'll tell you what you truly value. Show me your habits. I'll tell you your future. Like, when a man shows me what he does and then tells me what he values, I'm like, man, you, you either you do value that and if so, you're so out of alignment it's crazy. No wonder you're overwhelmed and feel lost and stuck and all these things. Or you actually don't value that at all. Or I value being a dad. That's my highest value. Oh, yeah, that's why you're still drinking alcohol. It's why you're overweight. It's why you speak to their mother like you do. It's why you, you know, not present when you're at home and scrolling social media instead of being pretty. Like, yeah, you really value being a dad, buddy. Cool. Like, not the truth. And they hate it. They don't like hearing it. So number one would be identity. Get clear on who you are, know what you stand for, know what you stand against, and have the courage to take that stance. Most men are in the position they're in because like you asked earlier about who do I follow as a coach. And subscribing to one person, most men will find, you know, they'll be like, all right, at the moment, my, you know, I've just started this job and I'm in this career. So I'll just look at everybody that doing the job that I do and I'll start to be like them. I'll start to whinge about my day like them. I'll start to whinge about my Ms. Ah, the Mrs. And like we start to become who we surround ourselves with. But a man who knows who he is, knows what he stands for and stands against, he won't do that. He'll be in that situation and he will be the best version of him in that situation. He'll turn up to work. Guys that are always whinging about their workmates, I'm like, why do you whinge about that? Just go to work and do your job. You don't have to subscribe to the same week, you know, low value, low vibration conversations. They do. Oh, you know, but you're just around it all the time. And if it's that bad, don't be around it like this. Knowing what you are, knowing who you are, knowing what you stand for, stand against. Having the courage to take that stance means sometimes doing the uncomfortable thing. Means sometimes when you hear that conversation about women or about, you know, they're bitching about their wives or about the boss and you're sitting there going, well, this boss has given you a job. You're bitching about the boss because he's successful, because your ass is too weak to get out and start your own thing. You're talking about starting your own business every day. But then you're bitching about a guy that started his own business and then you're wondering why you're not. Yeah, like you're, you literally energetically won't ever start your own business because you've got such a hang up with your ego on someone who started their business. And when you're afraid of what someone says down the track, it's because you know what you were saying about someone who was doing what it is you want to do. And. But if you're standing in that situation, hearing that and you just let it go on, you're part of the problem. So having the courage to stand actually means having the uncomfortable conversations not with other people, just other people, but with yourself as well. Yeah, like having that courage. And I see that as the biggest problem like that is honestly, I would say the biggest problem. I see men not knowing who they are. Number two would be, it'd be self confidence, which plays into knowing who you are. It's very hard to be self confident when you don't know what self is and you're being pulled every which way, oh, I'm going to do what this guy's doing, then this guy and I'm going to achieve this goal. Why are you achieving that goal, bro? You know, because my neighbor did or my best friend did or. Because this is what my parents told me to do. Like, how can you be self confident when you don't know who self is? So those two working together and, you know, and having that vision and then skill sets as well. Men just lack the basic skills to communicate well with their partner. They lack the basic skills. And I say this is a basic skill because it is. It doesn't mean it's easy, but it's basic. To be able to manage their emotions, they lack the basic skill for emotional awareness, emotional regulation, and to be able to deal with those emotions. And when the emotions come up in a way that they can't control, it burns the relationship to the ground, the business to the ground. And again, that plays back into identity, because when you're clear on who you are, what you stand for, and what you stand against, well, now I know how I act, you know, when I. Everyone watches my stories every day, and, you know, they're always at me like, oh, you know, you do not miss. And they'll say what I say, because every day I get on there and I do my 5km and all the thing, and I'm like, I do not miss. And that's not mine. And to be honest, Wes said it, and I think it's great. And that I'm always saying we keep our word. And I'm like, well, that's. You know, there's me adopting something from someone else and going, yeah, we don't miss because we're men. Do we really? Yeah, of course I'm gonna miss at times. But this is what I'm getting at. Having the courage to say it. Having the courage to say it and make it a part of my identity. So much so that if I do go to miss, it's actually scary. Oh, I've made that so much a part of me. I'm actually scared to miss now. I'm actually scared not to do what I say because I'm putting it out there so much. You know, guys won't speak out to the world. And, you know, Garrett says it about being polarizing. The more polarizing we are, it also puts us on show. We've got to stand for that now. Otherwise we're going to get called the out. Yeah, social media will do that. Social media will tear you down. You do one thing out of line and they'll tell you down because they're looking to attack you for anything.

Yeah.

Like, rather than getting the value, they'll look for the areas that they can go, now, this guy isn't really that why do they do that? Because they know they're not that. And it's easier to tear someone else down because then they can feel better about themselves. And when we say that we're something and we're putting it out there so adamantly, then we have to be that. And this is the courage, having that courage to stand for something. It's why I admire Wes Watson. It's why I admire Garrett White. It's the main things I admire about them, not necessarily who they are, but the fact that they have the courage to be that person regardless of what anyone says. And that's what I would say would be the biggest problem I see is identity number two. It would be having clear set values, goals, all these things, which all plays into identity, self worth. Sorry, would be number two. And number three would be skill sets to do the basic things that I believe every man, not just men, men and women, should do. Being able to regulate your emotions and basic skill sets in your professions. You know, this is the thing, like, Brendan Richard's big on this one. You know, always be working on skills. Have a curriculum for yourself.

Yeah.

Like, what do you need to learn this week? Oh, you know, I'd really love to start this, but I just don't know if I could. Cool. Rather than focusing on what you can't do, let's focus on what you need to do. What skill set would you need that would mean you could do it? Oh, well, you know, if I could do marketing. Well, cool. Are you reading any books on that right now?

Yeah. How are you trying?

When I say the basic skill set, you know, or skill sets being marketing, that's actually not the skill set I'm talking about for men. It's a skill to learn.

Yep.

We've forgotten how to pick up a book and read and actually study because we haven't done it for 10, 20, 30 years, depending on our age, since school. Like, we literally spent all this time at school learning all these different things, but what we really learned was how to learn. But men forget that and then they just get stuck in, well, this is who I am and this is job I've always had, and this is a relationship I've got, and this is the way women is. And really. Or is everything just a product of you and how you show up in the world? Because that's actually what it is. Your surrounding world is a product of your inner world and of the man that you are when you show up in it. One being the way that we look at the world, because Our focus changes, our perception changes and our world changes. Two people can see the same event and have a wildly different experience. So we, we have the ability, to me, that's a basic skill set perception, to learn how to look at things differently, to shift our thoughts. I do this in RMK in the first 28 days. One of the key things we work on is your story. What are your stories about? What things mean and how is that limiting you? And what would be a more empowering story? And I show them how to shift that. And they're stories that have played out since they were little kids, I bet.

Yeah. Go way back.

Yeah. You know, like we work on that. We work on. Then we get that out of the way really early because we can't even start to look at your identity and your vision and your goals if you're still holding on to these weak, limiting stories. So let's shift those and let's show you how to shift them. So when you're setting the vision and that little thought comes up in your head, the ego pops up because it wants to keep you company. The ego is not a bad thing. It's just trying to keep you safe. And it's the devil you know. The ego knows it can handle this version of the world that you've been living in, even though it's uncomfortable, even though you don't like it. The ego knows it's safe because you've existed in it for so long. But it doesn't know this. It's the unknown. And what if we fail? And what if this. So your ego is going to tell you all the stories about this vision you're creating and how, you know, and then it'll start to attack Craig and the program and, oh, you know, I don't know if this stuff works. And it'll find all the reasons. It might not just to keep you back here in the, in the zone where you actually wanted to get out of.

Keep you safe.

Yeah. Keep you safe. You know, like it's, it's, it's wild. It's, you know, so being able to shift those stories and shift those perceptions, they're basic skills to me. They're basic. But that doesn't mean they're easy because we've got ego that's against us. Yeah. But we can use it because the ego is actually great. The ego is the thing that's going to drive us. The ego is also the thing that's driving us to be better because we want to evolve and all these things. But it's the same thing that also then holds us back. It wants us to be better, but it wants us to be safe. Yeah.

It's such a. It's such a minefield for men, isn't it? Because, you know, there's, I'd say crap mixed messaging now, which is like, men need to be, you know, vulnerable and. How can I put it? And for me, I'm very much about. If things aren't where you want to be in life, don't. You don't need to spread it all over social media and tell everybody about it. Because also a lot of people couldn't give a. I'd rather you go and find someone like you, me, or even if it's just a. A good friend or a, you know, colleague or someone to go and unpack what's going on, be honest about it and try and move forward instead of just kind of bleating about it. But I wonder for you, because I think it's interesting, all those things you were talking about, especially identity, we're not taught at school, but also I wonder, especially in the last few years, where it's like social media creates such division deliberately between people. You know, in. In America, you're either a Trump or a Biden before and, you know, you've got lockdowns and masks and vaccines and all these different things people are arguing about. And I just wonder for a lot of men I talk to, not every single one, but they'll talk about, like, sometimes feeling rage. And again, we're not taught as boys and then young men and then men how to deal with rage. And I just wonder if you, like, do you have. Do you see that in the guys where you get so angry, not where you want to be in life, that you don't know how to handle it.

Yeah. 100. And it's, you know, it's when we get that anger and that overwhelm. Like I say to the guys, use that.

Yeah.

When you get angry. I literally just had this happen yesterday with a guy where he did a video in the group about how he'd had enough. He, you know, he hadn't followed his routine for the last few days. And we have the Daily 7. The guys have got to do their daily habits. We call it the Daily 7. And he hadn't stuck to it for a few days. And he did a video and it was quite empowering. I could tell he was from an empowered place of this no more. You know, I've been a weak piece of, like, it was quite abrupt, you know.

Yeah.

And A lot of the guys got in and sort of said to him, and he was in that area of rage, like, I had enough. And like, that's it. Like, it's no more. I'm going to move forward, you know? And quite a few of the guys jumped in and said, oh, come on, bro, stop being so hard on yourself. And, you know, how about you switch that negative talk? And da, da, da. And I had to get in and pull it up and make a video because I thought, do not do that. He's empowered right now. Yeah, He's a pivotal point. Like sometimes. Well, sometimes that pat on the back and it's a new day tomorrow, bro. Pick it up. And sometimes that's what guys need until it's the 10th time, 15th time, 20th time. And that's obviously not working. Yeah, the more you do that, you're enabling. At some point, he has to find that rage within and that angle within to go, no more. But we need to channel that to something productive because most men go, oh, I've had enough and I can't do this. And I've been trying for so long that they then will channel it because they don't know any better.

But what now?

The quick fix to feel good, where it's so scroll social media, alcohol, porn, or it comes out as aggression. You know, guys just suppress, suppress, suppress all of this feeling suppressed, which is essentially they're feeling suppressed. I know there's more for me in this life, but I don't know how to get there. I don't know what that looks like. I know there's light at the end of the tunnel, but I can't see it. And they get overwhelmed and frustrated. They come home, they see their kids, they see their wife, and they feel overwhelmed there because they deserve better than this. And they tell themselves that. And they just keep suppressing it down, suppressing it down, suppressing it down until it erupts as something altogether different. You know, a woman will go, me, you're out of control. You erupted over this little thing. It wasn't over that. It was the cocktail of emotion that he'd been stuffing down for so long. Yeah. So, you know, it's guys learning. People say men need to be more vulnerable. For instance, you said it earlier. And I agree. But I think where men go wrong, there is. It's vulnerability from a place of strength. When we share it on social media, I'll be vulnerable, but it's from a place of. I've worked through it and I've got this. Yeah, you Know otherwise, if it's from a place of weakness, well, now I'm a victim and I'm enabling other people to be victims, too. Poor me. Da, da, da. And other. Oh, yeah, me too, bro. How hard is it? Like, you want? Yeah. So from a place of strength. But it's the same with our partner. She says she wants you to be vulnerable. I've got guys like, oh. She says she wants vulnerability. And I shared this with her and I even cried. I'm like, oh, bro, like, not saying don't cry. I'm not saying don't cry.

Yeah.

What I am saying is there's a place, like, if she's being vulnerable and then you be vulnerable from a place of, like, letting yourself go into that. That weakness, which is what guys think she means. You've now got two feminine people sitting there. She's going to feel unsafe and she's going to step into the masculine and you're going to be like, but why is she closed off to that? Because she needs to know she's safe. When she says be vulnerable, she says, share with me what you've got going on. But she's also saying, you're the man. Work it out. Yeah. That's why we have rmk. It's why we have, you know, the whole man academy. It's why we have these things. So we've got somewhere. I say to the guys, if you want to dump your somewhere, dump it here. Don't dump it on your wife. But then once we've worked it out and we've helped you get the answers, once we've helped you get out of your emotional state or your overwhelm or that frustration or that anger like we're speaking about. Once we've helped you do that, then take it to your wife and go, darling, had a tough day today. Yeah. This is what I want to do in life. This is what my goal is. And you've been wondering why I've been a bit closed off or wondering why I've been a bit short or this is why. But you know what, babe? Like, I. I want to share that with you, but I've got this. I don't know how we're going to achieve this, but I got this. Yeah. And we're gonna work it out. I'm gonna work it out. We're gonna walk alongside each other in this journey and we're. We're gonna get through this. That's vulnerability from strength. That's saying, hey, I don't have all the answers. This is going to be. But I've got this. She's going to sit there and go, oh, my God, Wow. This is all I've wanted. Locked down. Like, you know, this is what I want. I want you to share with me what you got going on. Not, oh my God, I know what to do. I'm life's and business and I hate my employees. And this is so hard. Like, that's not what she's talking about when she says vulnerability. And if you do that, don't be, you know, don't be surprised when she closes off.

Yeah.

Goes into her masculine, you know, like, you've got to hold that safe space by creating that from being strong in your stance of. I know I, I don't have it all figured out, but I can, I will figure it out. Like, I have got this.

You know, you said exactly what a few weeks ago. You know, we've got guys in the whole man academy in the network who, of course, life isn't sunshines and rainbows. And some guys have been made redundant. Other guys have their wives split with them and, you know, they're not seeing their kids. And it's hard, especially to start with, to adjust to, you know, not seeing your kids all the time. And I had one or two guys that were like, they'd email me and say, oh, look, this has happened. I didn't want to post it in our, like, group. I didn't want to bring the energy down. I'm like, no, no, no, listen, that's, that's not the point. The point is when things are. Share it with the guys. When things are great, share it with the guys. When things are average, share it with the guys. Because otherwise you're just, you know, you're kind of not really showing the real you in there. And, and the guys are like, yeah, I get it. So listen, believe me, sometimes you can share in that group that, oh, my boss is a total. And I hate the guy and he's driving me nuts and stuff. And other guys will go, oh, God, it's not just me. Like, he's got this issue as well. And maybe you'll find connection there. Maybe one will have a strategy to help you out, maybe have some kind of idea or tool. And that's the thing. Like, don't, you don't need to go and do that with your wife. You know, she probably doesn't want. Yeah, yeah, Woe is me. You know, you can say things are not great, but you, if you want to unpack it, unpack it with us. But there's very few, I think. And again, going back to personal development, there's growing movement of men's movements around the country in the UK and what have you. But the problem is a lot of them are based just around mental health. I want to say, as I'm sure you probably get well, men aren't just mental health. Men are made up of a lot of different things because I know men that are mentally strong, but their business is so they're like, I'm not having. Got mental health problems. Thanks. I just need a. I need a business coach like Craig to help me or they're overweight or something. So, yeah, it's a, it's a funny time to be a man because. Yeah, you've got such mixed messaging. I think it's so important to find the right group of guys to, to get around, basically.

Yeah. 100. Yep. I agree. And they don't necessarily all have to be doing what you're doing. I say this in rmk, there's every end of the spectrum. We've got guys making, making millions of dollars a month. We've got guys that are struggling to pay the house payments this month. Like, we got guys that have got a beautiful partner and relationship and kids and all the businesses, and they just want to find that next level. They want that accountability to go there. And then we've got guys that are in a job they don't like, they're going through divorce, they're facing bankruptcy. And like every end of the spectrum. But here's the crazy thing. And you'd get this, too. And it's, you know, it plays into what you said about sharing your stuff is this end to this end, they have the same problems, they have a lot of the same thoughts like, and you'll get it. You'll get the successful guy going, you know, quote, unquote, successful perceived success. Yeah. Going, oh, I really struggled this week, boys, with this, this and this. And it's really powerful when he does because then you get these other guys. Oh, my God. I wouldn't think you'd have any problems like the holy.

Yeah.

And it nearly makes them feel better about them. So it's like, I say this to men and it's similar. It's basically what you're saying. When one man shares his stuff, it gives other men permission to share their stuff. And the only thing I say in RMK is when you share. So we're looking for skills. We're looking for answers. We're not just dumping our garbage on everybody. So when you when you're gonna say, hey, I had a tough day. And this is like, when you read that, it can be quite negative unless you give another man an opportunity to serve. So guy had a really tough day today, guys. The boss or, you know, the employees or the wife or the kids, like, ask a question. What's your question? Are you. Do you want to ask how you can deal with it better? Do you want to. You might just say, hey, guys, had a really tough day and had this, this, and this happen. You know, are there any of you guys that have dealt with this and, you know, how did you deal with it? It might. You might not even be looking for the answer to deal with the thing. You might just want to be able to deal with the emotion. I'm really frustrated over. I'm angry and, you know, how can I get myself out of this shitty state? Cool. Now you've given other men an opportunity to help, and a lot of men, and we get fulfillment from that. You haven't just dumped your and gone, oh, I didn't really want any answers. I just needed to vent. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, venting can be good and it can be valuable, but it's rarely going to get you the answers that you need.

And this is why I think it's. It's important for the right to find the right person who's going to drive the men's, you know, movement or lead it, whichever way you want to talk about it. Because I've, you know, harsh as it sounds, I've met some guys who are trying to set up men's things, and they're too busy because maybe they've been fooled by the, let's say, the woke mentality. If we should all just be trying to define masculinity all the time. And I was like, listen, here's my point. Most men I know couldn't give a. What we all think about. They just want help moving forward, you know, like, I'm not. How old are you, Craig?

42.

So I'm 44, 45. I had to think about that then. And, you know, for me, growing up, no man has ever said to me in his big struggles, my real struggles, I'm trying to work out the definition of masculinity. They're like, no, I'm trying to get to the gym. I'm trying to be a good dad. I'm trying to pay the bills, I'm trying to do whatever. And. And it's like so much of the men's thing now has become about people arguing about the levels of masculinity. You're like, listen, I'm just trying to help you move forward. Like that. That's not a business. That's not a viable business. He's just talking about masculinity. So I've literally stopped doing podcasts where guys go, I want you to come on and tell me all about your thoughts on masculinity. I'm like, listen, I'm done with it now. Like yourself, I want to take guys and try and help them build a community, move forward, be a better dad, make more money, get a better body, and live a better life. And people like, all right. Oh, interesting. So it's.

Yes.

It's an interesting time to be alive.

That is an interesting one. And to be honest, I generally find the guys that are speaking about and find that such an important question are the other coaches. They're all talking with each other about that. But it's like, what problem are you solving here? Yes.

Yes.

What are you actually solving by debating this? Like, yeah, how about asking the guy that goes, what's your definition of masculinity? Oh, well, bro, that's an interesting question, but tell me, what's a challenge you've got right now?

Yes.

What do you mean? Like, what's going. What's your number one challenge? Oh, man, I'm really struggling with the Mrs. And, you know, she just. She doesn't respect me, and, you know she doesn't. This is. Okay, cool. Like, have you got a solid routine? Are you doing what you say you're going to do this year? Well, not really. Like, and you are. You're expecting her to respect you when you don't even respect yourself. You're not doing what you say you're going to do. Like, let's. Let's figure that out before trying to define the meaning of masculinity or the meaning of the world. You know what I mean? Like, and if I'm being honest, my definition is really simple. It's like purpose. I say it to men all the time. Like, you want to know what your purpose is? I'm going to this up for you. I'm going to make it really, really simple. Yeah, go and have a look in the mirror. That's it. That's your purpose. It's that man in the mirror becoming the best version of himself. But you know what? The work is working out what that version is. Masculinity is. It's. It's frame. You know, we speak about a masculine frame. People have what Is that. I don't know. What, what is it to you?

Yeah.

What are the four sides? What are the beliefs? What are the values? What are. Like, what's yours?

That's it. Because there's no right answer, is there?

No. What you, what you stand for, know what you stand against and have the courage to take that stance.

Yeah.

Like to me, the guy skipping down the street with a 2, 2, 1, and a dress with his shoulders back. I can smile on his face loving the world, not giving a. What anyone says is more manly than the jacked up, tattered bodybuilder hiding in his closet not knowing who he is. Putting on muscles and tattoos to try and hide the fact that he's still a scared little boy inside and. But then going into the gym, jacking around like this, like, he's some, you know, I'm the masculinity, like. But he's depressed. Yeah. That guy in the tutu and the dress is more masculine because he knows who he is. He doesn't give a. What anyone says. He's strong in his stance. You know what I mean? Like, that's a, that's a polarizing way to look at it. But that's what, you know, like, that's, it's not that difficult. But it also doesn't matter that much. Like, you know, like, what's the problem right now?

Yeah, I have a good barometer of, you know, we have a, A quiz called the Whole Man Quiz. And it basically takes a man through 12 different segments of your life. You know, your healthy fitness, your mindset, your confidence, or, you know, your, your finances, all these stuff, and basically gives you a brief kind of score, then gives you some actionable advice.

House.

And I'm like. Because I know very much people are like, oh, it's so important to be inclusive and be diverse and be this. That. Yeah. I'm like, listen, when you look at all the answers that men give, they're always nearly the same. It comes down to confidence, purpose, lack of direction. You know, it's their health, their relationship. It's. It's the usual things that have gone back hundreds of years. None of the men, like, change in the fact that most of us want a bit more money, they want to be a bit fitter, they want to have more sex, be a better relationship, spend more time with their kids and not be told what to do by the government. So I, you know, I, I base. I made that mistake before of kind of maybe trying to please everyone with what I was talking about. And now I'M like laser focused on what, you know, what I can help men with, basically. And a lot of it comes back to community, doesn't it? Get around the right people that have the right attitude, intentions and, and life becomes a bit, you know, a bit more fun to live, basically. But where do you go from here with real modern kings? Is it just basically slowly scaling it to reach the right guys and help them?

Yeah, essentially it's, it's scaling it to a bigger community. Again, like I said earlier, the biggest challenge is doing that and maintaining the integrity of what I say it stands for. Whether that looks like creating, you know, pods or teams. You know, I call it the brotherhood. Like it's real modern kings. But, you know, we have a brotherhood and whether that means we get that to, you know, we end up splitting it up to have, you know, 30, 40, 50 people in each team sort of thing. And then we come together for events each year or whatever it might be. We do retreats every year. We're about to go to Bali in March and do the Bali Time Chamber. We're doing a retreat over there.

Fantastic.

We usually have three a year here on the Gold Coast. I have RMK Elite as well, which is. That's a different conversation. Their guys most doing multiple seven figures and it's just a different conversation. Very similar to rmk. It's just a different conversation. They're having conversations that might be lost to a lot of the guys in rmk. So those guys were going diving with great white sharks in I think April, stand on a boat for three, four nights together. Those guys just want to have good experiences with good men, where they can talk about real world stuff, but also whilst having experiences that, you know, I guess enrich in life, whether that be diving with great white sharks, riding motorbikes through the mountains and volcanoes and stuff in, you know, Bali or Philippines or whatever. So essentially it's just scaling that. It's, you know, talking to more men, getting the name out there, more of RMK and what it stands for, going worldwide. I've got a couple of the guys from the US in there now. I've had plenty of guys from New Zealand, a guy from France and I've really targeted Australia because time zones and, you know, and I'm Australian and it's been, if, if I'm being honest, it's been the easiest because I've got, you know, a following here and all the rest of it. But I love the American guys that come in, you know, they just genuinely understand. Not that the Aussies don't, but they genuinely understand personal development and just doing the work and getting it done. Yeah. That being said, like Chad, that's in there at the moment's ex military and he's been around bedrock schooling quite a bit and all the rest of it. So he's very much that mentality. So really scaling it worldwide essentially. And probably my biggest passion with it, which is probably a couple of years off, is running rites of passage for kids. Yeah. So which will be a charitable thing. That won't be a money making thing for me. It'll be getting RMK to a position where it's got the stature and the credibility to be able then reach out to communities and use that, that, I guess, network of all the men in there and use the credibility of the name to go, hey, we're running these rights of passages for kids. It might be a single moment. Who can't afford something like that and her son hasn't got a present father at home and she's like, I want him to know what it means to be a man. And that's why I started this, that's why I started coaching. Like when I say identity, why I'm so big on identity, it's because I spent my whole life chasing that. Like My dad was 60 when I was born. By the time I was 10, he was obviously 70 and I was basically more concerned for his health than him. Mine. Yeah, my mum left before I can remember. I was homeless at 14 and I spent most of my life chasing identity. Like, what, who am I in this world? What's it mean to be a man? Like, you know, what do I stand for? Like, what is the right path to take and just lost and then just being dragged down every path that everyone else told me I should go down. Until one day I figured that I had to work this out within me. So it's really, that's what I do in rmk, but it's also what I want to do with kids. It's what I want to do with helping, you know, young boys to figure out what is their place in this world. Essentially showing them they don't have to figure it all out right now, but at the same time start to work it out, start to ask questions, start to go, well, do I admire this person or this person? You know, have a look at why they are who they are. What do you admire about them? Like, don't just subscribe to someone because they're cool. Why are they cool? What's the, what's the exact character trait that you like about that person. That way you don't adopt the other portraits they have. Let's just find the one or two traits that you really admire and then you might be able to recognize that. Well, I admire that but I don't like the way that he does this. Cool. Like him for that and adopt that. But don't adopt all of him because he's got some portraits as well, you know. So I want to do that with kids. That's, that's my evolution is there. And essentially using the men in my community might be men like yourself that I've connected with. We spoke about this, you know, off the call where we get to connect like this and now we're a part of each other's network. Like bro, if I can connect you with someone, let's, you know, I'll do that for you and vice versa and help each other out. I might run this one day and you might want to come to Oz. Yeah. And you might come like, like a Big Brother program. You know, you might come and you know, spend that three day retreat and where you, I assign you to one of the young boys who hasn't got a masculine role model. Yeah. And for three days he gets to spend that time with you, have real conversations with you. It's facilitated. There's challenges and, and you know that's what I really, that's, that's something that's very close to me and I'm very passionate about is because I started this whole journey because I wanted to help kids not have to go through what I went through on my own which evolved into helping men be better men. So that I love it. Kids had better fathers, leaders, role models. So that's, that's essentially where I see it going. Just, just scaling, just getting bigger, bigger impact and then eventually directly impacting and helping kids.

I think it's so important because being, you know, you being a dad. Me of three boys and also I've got two nephews, boys as well, who are 17, just 17 have just started driving and one's 14, 15 and, and not just for boys but I look around and I see a lot of parents, especially in this last few years like making mistakes that they just don't know any better and look and, and I feel it's mostly for kids that haven't got, got present fathers there. You know, either fathers that are useless or fathers that just aren't there because the marriage has gotten or the father's not around or whatever it is. And I got asked a while ago about the whole Man Academy and I said exactly like you, I want to get it to a stage where it's, you know, it can kind of basically make enough money so it's perfectly sustainable. So you can then branch out and do like, you know, whole Man Academy, dads and kids, weekends or you know, events or something. We've actually got our first call it retreat coming up at the end of March which is, I think We've got either 12 or 15 guys coming to. I live right in the middle of the countryside, it's very green where we're as far away from the sea as you could be. But you know, we're there. I'm facilitating with another guy. It is the obvious things of fire pit, ice bars, long walks. We'll be camping but we'll be having different talks and discussions about, you know, you know, where you want to go in life and kind of a little bit of the self analysis and so many of the guys, like I just want to disconnect from mobile phones as well and, and get out to it. So I always say who knows how paths cross but you never know whether I might be able to either get out to Australia at some point or one day you might end up in the uk. So you never know.

Yeah man, we might run an Aussie retreat or a UK retreat. But if I can give you, if this is your first one retreat you're running, it was. It's probably the biggest game changer for a community if I was to give one thing. So I said earlier that one of the challenges of having a group like this is having that culture and building that close knit community and I do that multiple ways, having battle buddies, pairing guys up when we do our eight week challenges and all the rest of it. But one of the main key things where I really see men shift and lean into the community is after one of the retreats, we do three three day retreats a year and they get to actually meet in person. It's crazy because you'll get guys that see each other on Zoom and then they meet in person, oh shoot, you're taller than I. You know what I mean? Like, but then by the end of the weekend they're like, I say this when people come into rmk, this isn't like other programs. Like this is, this is a genuine brotherhood. Like everyone knows each other intimately. Like some people you're going to know these guys better than you know your best friends. Yeah. And for some guys it's a little bit uncomfortable because they're like I'm trying to be connect and be this brotherhood. I feel a little bit fake because I've never met this guy like in real life. And then they meet because men connect, you know, by shaking their hand and, you know, having a good yarn. And, like, we call it a yarn. I don't know if you call it a yarn over there. We have a yarn around the campfire. We. We connect through challenge. Yeah. You know, the guys, my RMK weekends, there's one day where it's very much like the last RMK weekend. I don't think there was many men that didn't spew at least three or four times. There was, you know, it was a whole day of that. I had. I think I'd sent them to bed at 9 at night. We'll get up at 5 in the morning. I got them up at. It was nine, I think I got him up at the first time at 12, three or four hours later. And then about two hours after that, got him up again out in the rain doing burpees and sprints up the hill and carrying big boulders on their shoulders. And, you know, and they connect through that challenge and through that struggle, and it just grows the community. And then there's a conversation, you know, in the community too. Like, I remember this and, you know, I can't wait for the next one. And new guys will come in and be like, bro, you wait till you get to one of the retreats. It's life changing. And, you know, it just really lifts the community so many. You guys will love it. And it just really does. It bonds men.

Yeah.

To go through a challenge together, whether that challenge is physical or whether it's just real conversations around a campfire about real life, you know, stuff that comes out that might not come out on a zoom call, when they feel a little bit uncomfortable because they're on a screen, you know.

Exactly. I was going to say that thing of. And you know, that that's one of the issues, that Zoom is great because it can connect people. But we know that, you know, being in person is different because maybe it's those moments, you know, you might just be sitting with someone around a fire, having conversation, and something comes up. So, yeah, I'm. It's the first one I've ever done. I've wanted to do it for years, but it's never quite been the right time. But now, you know, I didn't have to sell the spaces. I literally said to guys, this is what I'm thinking, who's interested? And we had like eight or nine guys just say, I mean, straight away, which is. Which is always nice to see, but. Well, I know it's silly o' clock in the morning for you there, but I'm sure you could have a few bits to, to do today. So I'll. First you say, I appreciate your time, Craig, because it's just, you know, I, I'll enjoy seeing your stuff and ever since I heard you talk on the thing, I was like, I need to get Craig on the podcast at some point and who knows whether one day I'll either be out in Australia or, or you'll be over in the UK at some point. So I appreciate your time, brother.

Appreciate you too, brother. It's been a great conversation. It done exactly what we said. It'll do it whenever, which way? And I get very passionate and I'll go off on tangents. The question will be asked, the next minute will be over here. But I think you're very much the same. It's just that passion for what we do. So, man, I appreciate you. I appreciate what you do and what you're doing over there. I think from my perspective and obviously only knowing you through a screen, you seem like, you know, I'm gonna say one of the real ones, you know, because a lot of people do it for the wrong reasons and you seem like you're very much doing it for the right reason. So the men that are in your communities are very lucky because trust me, I've coached coaches and all the rest of it and there's a lot not doing it for the right reasons. So, yeah, appreciate you, brother. And yeah, I look forward to many more conversations down the track.

Thank you, mate. I will speak to you soon. Cheers, Craig. Thanks for listening.

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