Forged for Manhood x WMA

Foreign to Forged Manhood. The podcast for young men to learn from elder men full of wisdom and experience in the world. To help them navigate the world as they journey through from boy to man. This week I've got a real special guest and very good friend of mine, Anthony Asterbry, and is the owner of the Whole Man Academy. Whilst most men spend their life pretending they've got it all together, Anthony's not one of them. He walked away from a high flying career in the city because he knew there was more to life than chasing money and pretending to be happy. Now he runs the Whole Man Academy, helping men of all ages build strength, confidence, direction and proper connection. He speaks the truth about what it means to be a man today and how to handle stuff that doesn't get spoken about often enough. Building your ideal life. If you're a young lad who wants more from life, not just to fit in, but to stand out and listen up, Anthony's got something you probably haven't heard before. And welcome to the pod, mate.

Thank you, mate. It's, it's funny doing this podcast because usually I'm asking the questions and today knowing it's such an important topic for those that clearly won't know. But I have three sons of my own who are seven, five and two. I also have a couple of nephews who are both boys. So, you know, 18, they're 18 and 15. So for me it's a, it's a very interesting time to be a boy. Coming into manhood is very interesting time to be a man as well, with how interesting the world is. So I think it's a really important topic and I, it's very rare I write notes for podcasts, but I realized I want, I, I went through a couple of points so I actually written some notes so I don't forget them because there's nothing worse than finishing and be like, ah, I forgot to mention this thing. So I'm looking forward to getting into this man.

I'm pleased you wrote nights because I don't write, write any like someone message this morning about coming on the podcast. I'm like, what do I need to know? What can you ask me? Can I make some prep? I'm like, mate, like every most podcast in my opinion that there's like so much manufacturing going on. I know we've spoke about it and I just wanted one where especially for young men listening, we take away all the fluff. It's really nice. We've got like a nice pretty page and there's lovely music at the start. And this is great intro. And I'm just like, this isn't going to be me. For me personally, I'm gonna be incongruent. It's not going to be raw, it's not going to be rugged, it's not going to be authentic for me if I dress it up and you get paralyzed by analysis, which was nearly me last week when I spent 30 odd hours on trying to get banners and pretty pictures done and everything else. And like I said to you on the Friday, last Friday when I recorded the first one, everything just broke down. And he was like, you know what, mate, we're gonna do this on Zoom. I'm just gonna record it, I'm gonna chuck it on Spotify.

It is really important for people to hear that, you know, just because you have. I mean, I've recorded 140 of my own podcasts and I've had all sorts of tech issues and also I've had guests not turning up. I mean, literally sat here, you know, at night and you're ready to go on Zoom and they just don't turn up because they've forgotten. And in a way, doing podcasts is a good analogy for life because, you know, if you start them and just give up, you don't learn anything. But the more you do, the more connections you make, the more lessons you learn and you become a lot calmer. Because when I used to start, I'd be all flustered. And then after, you know, 50100 plus interviews, you're at the stage, you're like, what, what happens, happens. And you know, no one's going to die because the podcast didn't quite go right. But that's why, you know, for me preparing for the podcast, I very rarely prepare for my own ones because I have a few bullet points and conversation. I know that and I advise some the other day, what if they're being on a podcast? Like, who is their audience? And therefore you need to tailor what you want for them. So, you know, for, if I was speaking on a women's podcast, I'd be being sure that the points I want to put across are, are valuable. And that's what I've got today, is several points for boys slash young men that I think will take, you know, take some value out of. And, and the first thing for me actually was for men and boys, you know, life isn't about having all the answers. I think for boys that I've spoken to as we've come to events and done stuff is, you know, I look at it, it's. It's having, like, the courage to face the questions that most men run from, if that makes sense. And that is because when you're a boy, you don't know how the world works. Most people don't know how the world works. So, you know, don't expect to have all the answers. We don't have the answers. That's why you should listen to people like us and others just to see, you know, pick the bones and see what you can find out of it.

Right. I'm gonna. I want to come. I want to circle back to that, because I think that's a. There's something really special in that on its own, before I circle back and if you could check in with me in three words, emotionally, where are you at right now?

Excited, pissed off. And I'm trying to think what the other word is kind of content and excited, because with running the whole man academy, we had an event last weekend which was 10 guys come along to it in the Cotswolds, and as you know, you hosted a previous one with me. And I'm excited because I see men banding together, and some of those have got sons. And therefore, I think if a man goes away as a better man by improving various areas of life, you can then, you know, the waves spread out to others around you, be it sons, daughters, wives. Pissed off because I, you know, in real world, I have a family car, which we've had problems with for a long time because Peugeot are useless. And literally today I was on a Zoom call and got an email from them, you know, and having to deal with it, and again, it's just reminds you that I don't want to have to deal with it, but. And we'll come on to this. It's important to do the stuff you don't want to do in life. You can't just do everything that you always enjoy. And the last one was, I think I said, like, content, if that makes sense. In my life, I have my three lovely boys, I have my partner. We have, you know, a house in the Cotswolds, and I work on meaningful work. So generally, I'm content, but I always want more, which I think is. People can think that's a bad thing, but I want to impact more men is one big thing. So those are my three.

I love it. I love it, man. I'm gonna. I'm gonna check in with Nick. Yours. I'm excited, see where this goes, because I think, like, we. I emailed you and said, bud, like what two to four things do you want to talk about? And I'm really excited to touch on some of these. I'm feeling really calm and I'm anxious. As you know, I'm anxious the fact that I'm going to dish out the second podcast thinking the new microphone is going to work and it hasn't. So the sound quality is going to be shocking again for this one, but it is what it is.

Welcome to my world of podcasting, mate.

So before we go on to the first one, your first, the first thing you wanted to cover said, well, just your circle is your future before we come on to that, because it's going to be a good segue. You said about courage before we checked in about you wanted boys to, to have the courage to ask things and explore and be curious and all that. And you said, most men don't. They put their head in the sand. And I, I personally think this links back to, like you say, like, you know, I give talks and workshops on the ultimate performance blocker is fear. The ultimate relationships blocker is fear. The ultimate blocker to fulfillment and extraordinary potential is fear. Fear is we want to be accepted or at the very least not be rejected by people. Fear is the judgment of other people which leads us to people please others whilst we feel frustrated. Fear is we worry what people think of us. We worry that is it perfect, is what I do going to be judged what they think of me, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I think it's understand that when we say courage, this is going to be a big one for you because you're going to love it. Courage and vulnerability are the same thing that we have men who make boys feel that vulnerabilities, weakness or having no authority. But then we go, yeah, I'm a courageous man. But vulnerability by vulnerability encourage the same thing because no one's done anything courageous without feeling vulnerable doing it. And I think it's really important for young men to understand that that vulnerability isn't about holding hands and being in chanting circles and being weak and having authority. And this is how you overcome it by being together and crying together. Vulnerability, standing your own two feet of a strong backbone and going, I'm going to courageously move forward because I want to be the best I can possibly be. And I've got a vision, a dream of what I want to get after. And for me to do that, that's going to. I've got to summon everything from inside out. And if I fail, I fail. If people judge me, they judge me they're going to judge us anyway. But if I'm, as you said, if I have meaning and purpose to what I'm doing, then I have to have the courage to be vulnerable on that journey.

And it's important because often then you'll, you'll have people, if you post on social media or do podcasts, will say, okay, well, how do I become, let's say, more courageous and less, let's call it anxious or, you know, and, and kind of less feeling vulnerable. And I link it through to confidence. Now I know I have an online quiz which 350 plus men have taken, and I have all the answers from those. So it's incredible how I can see patterns and so much just like you said, links from fear through to confidence because those guys want confidence to go after the job or the woman or the salary or the body or whatever that they want or the life that's fulfilling for them. But the fear and worry of what other people say, what if I fuck up? What if I lose money? All of that interlinks. And I often think you build fear, you build courage, or maybe you, you increase your ability to be vulnerable and be okay with it. But literally, like one brick in a wall at a time, you know, I don't think anybody's just woken up, be like, today I'm courageous. I think the more you do difficult things, the more confident you get. It's like football, right? I'm a very good footballer and I say that not because I think I'm. It's because I practiced for years and years and years and years and years. I was very good at that. A bit like, keepy up is right. I've got, as a basic example, if you said to me, here's a ball, you've got to do 100. Keep up is. I could probably do it without worrying because I've learned it and I've practiced and it's like subconscious. But if you give someone else who hasn't practiced. I didn't become confident overnight with one PPRP. I did one, then 10, then 20, then 50, then 100. And it's the same in life, isn't it? You know, with your fear, you always feel fear doing things, but you'll feel less of it. If you feel less fearful, you'll feel more courageous and you'll feel more confident. So it's like a. For boys especially, so hard to navigate, but it's like an interwoven jigsaw piece, if that makes sense.

Yeah, I think this affects on so many different Levels. Everyone's fear is linked to some sense of shame, unconscious shame that's embedding all of us that we got in boyhood. And I think people think I haven't got any shame. We've all got it and we all got it attached. I was speaking to someone last week and said they got absolutely humiliated by father at 9 years old. Didn't really realize at the time, just felt crap and angry. And he realized for 20 years. He shaped all of his life around trying to prove himself to others. His career choices, his relationships, everything. It's as simple as like, you know your boys. I mean, we both got young boys now I've got 10. Well, he's going to be 10 in two weeks. I know it's his loves painting his nails. Whereas when we go to rugby, some of the boys are, oh, you paint nails? And he doesn't care. Like we've talked talking about healthy disrespect. You know, you, you know inside when, when someone's trying to tell you something and you're like, you're so off. And kids know that adults try to justify it and, and just do as they're told. Whereas kids are just like, I'm not listening to you. And he's got such a good strong sense of self. But I know it's as well dancing that men don't like to dance because of judgment of others because boys love dancing. And I realize he's getting to that age now where other friends are going, oh, like what you doing? Or girls like. And I realized parents with boys will go, oh, we got a girlfriend or all these funny noises. Then we wonder why boys become men that feel really awkward approaching women or put on a bravado and an armor to attract. I'm saying women, it can be whatever, but it's generally like we'll go stereotypical. We wonder why boys feel awkward around the girls by the time they get to 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 20, rely on alcohol and all the rest of it. I don't quite know where I was going with that.

Just, well, I'll bring that point to where I see it. And you're spot on because that's why I think that boys going to all boys schools, it doesn't help them because you don't learn to be around the female energy. And you know, boys often need sometimes to. When they subtly surround you, especially as you get older and they're attractive girls is that suddenly you feel like you need to show off all the time because you don't know how to Harness your kind of masculine energy. And I realized as a young lad, you know, I always liked girls from a young age. It just seemed to be the way it was. But when I was a little bit older, my sister was a model. And what that meant was that as a teenage boy, I would go to London and I would be, I'd go for the weekend and I'd be surrounded by beautiful women. And I mean, I'd go to a casting and there would be 50 women in there who were all in their own right, lovely. And what that taught me was number one was each one of those on their own was lovely, but only one of those was going to be good enough for the casting. And all the other 49 would be told, even though you're beautiful, you're not good enough. And I'd sit there and think, wow, like, you know, she's stunning, she's stunning, she's stunning.

And.

But all but one of these women are going to be told in this, you're not good enough for this, this, you know, opportunity that we've got. What it also meant was when I went back home to Maidstone, I was used to being. I was, I'd got. It was normal to be surrounded by beautiful girls. Therefore, when I went back to Maidstone to your local Strawberry Moons nightclub, if there was a beautiful girl in there, I wasn't phased by it. Whereas the other boys didn't know what to do and started acting up, maybe because they hadn't been exposed to enough females. So I linked that back to if you go to an all boys school. I knew a lot of guys who went to all boys schools that didn't seem to understand how to treat women either badly or they kind of, you know, acted a bit kind of soft around them all the time and. But just they had to think how they were acting. So this comes on to a lot of what we're saying in the pod of, you know, there's, there's a lot to roll into being forged for manhood. One of them is very important. One is like learning how to cope with women, which is like trying to. Now jelly to the wall, to be honest.

Yeah, man. There's so much in. There's a whole podcast just on this alone. It's to quickly hit on that. I think some of that you see and feel like the shame and awkwardness you feel as a young boy when mums and dads do this to you, these funny noises around girls, like the embarrassment you feel, which makes you feel awkward and repressed and there's something that I see at the school now is most a lot of parents, boys become valid by what they do and not who they be. And I see this at the school and a couple of examples. On a Friday, Clay has a worship assembly. So it's an opportunity for the kids to go into a hall on a Friday and the teachers will stand. Whoever's achieved something in the year group gets certificate, boyfriend, school, everybody claps and parents are allowed to attend. Now you get an email by lunchtime to let you know if your kid has got something. And it breaks my heart every Friday because I book every Friday afternoon. I leave free to make sure we go every week. Whereas you see the kids walk in, they look if their dad, mum or dad's there, they're like, oh, I've got something.

Yeah.

And I know people don't have the capacity all the time to be there, I understand that. But look at the kids eyes, it's like, oh, I'm finally seen and heard and I'm deserving of your attention and energy now because I achieved something.

Yeah.

I always set out to be like, I'm never letting Clay feel like that he deserves my time, attention or the need or his desire, as we all do, to be validated by him achieving something. And I spoke about this last week. There's a lot of this in sport. It's so prevalent, you know, like you go on trial from like 14, 15, it's like, you're not good enough. You know, you're not good enough. Got to do more, you've got to be more, you've got to do this. So the constant void of validation turns into am I ever good enough? It just trans, you see how it transcends, transcends into such a multi dimensional approach.

And it's hard, isn't it? Because as a, as a dad or as a parent, you, you, you're trying to find the balance for those that are interested. Like we home educate our children. We don't believe that the school system is optimal for them to learn. And also what they're going to learn might not be what we want them to learn. But the point is you're trying to find that balance between not raising a pathetic pipsqueak you want to raise, let's call it a young warrior, but also you want them to be able to find their way in the world. Understand that competition is important because you know when you go and work in the city like I did, if you were rubbish, they'll just get rid of you and you have no job. But you don't want everything to be built about. I'm only, you know, valuable if I win. And it literally is that kind of balancing act with ours of the go to football. I'm like, listen, long's enjoyed yourself. But then you have them thinking, well, I, I'm not good enough because I haven't scored any goals. And you're like, what do you have to practice? So it is really hard as a parent to find that balance of wanting them to, to win because they'll learn about themselves, but not to feel like if they don't win that they're not worthy of our love.

Well, I think it's that practice of self is not letting them lose self. And understanding that, like you said, bringing a warrior into the world, excuse me, is what we're talking about. There is pride, integrity, work ethic. He's making sure we bring up a young man that doesn't seek validation from the external, but can sit and look in the mirror and go, I gave it everything. It's cool. Like, if I wasn't your cup of tea, it's fine by me. I've worked hard for a long, long time. Like I put months of effort in. I've eaten well, I've slept well, I've trained hard, I've studied hard, I've taken my time and being diligent. And I may not be your cup of tea, but that's fine. I won't lose myself because of you. Yeah, and he's trying to instill all them qualities in, in young men, which.

Actually, funny enough, I've caught your cough. But in a way, one of the big things for me, and this I guess goes into kind of the, the points we wanted to raise, but is, and I wrote it as, choose your circle, like your life depends on it. And that is applicable as a, as a man or a boy. Because I think these days, if you're around people that just want to coast and whatever, that's fine. But you also want to be around people that want to live a great life. And for me, that is what is a great life for you and I is different maybe compared to what other men want, but you want to be around men that have standards, if that makes sense. And there's the old saying, like iron sharpens iron. The point is, if you hang around with people that are going to waste their time and scroll all the time on social media and take drugs and fuck around, you know, you, you'll, you'll reap what you sow. If you can start to think about bettering yourself and hang around with people that have got a slightly better outlook on life for me, like, that will literally spread waves of possibility through your life.

And it's really funny we're talking about this because I literally had a text this morning from a young, young man, 31, privately school educated, like secure family dad, obviously you stereotypical, you know, corporate job, earns a lot of money, not really around that much. And he's gone off in his 20s, done what he thought he should do, and he's approached me this morning, gone. Rick, this leadership pathway stuff you do in private schools was never talked to us. My, my life's literally breaking down now and I've. I'm in a place where need to navigate this world. And when I listen to the first podcast you've done and he's like, I need to learn all this. Can you coach? Do you coach one to one and teach me what you're teaching these young boys? And you're like, God, if you know what? If, if I had a pound for every adult man that's reached out and, and females for what I'm doing in the independent schools because of exactly what you spoke about. We're talking about understanding what you stand for and stand against. You know, the opposite to. The opposite to fitting in is belonging to. And when you, when you try to fit in, you belong nowhere because you don't know what you stand for. You surround yourself with people that don't have a strong enough backbone to call out behaviors that are not, not what we call it, impactful to local community and society. People. You know this actually both entrepreneurs who are people are very quick to go, what your values, what you stand for? And then I'm waiting for that. Brilliant. We've done all that work, but when's the. What do you stand against? Like, when do I need, what do I know I stand against to have the backbone, the soft heart, the compassion, but also the conviction to know that sometimes I've got to stand alone in my belief of what I want to see in the world.

Which is really. Can feel really hard and you know, a good example in a way. One of the other kind of, you know, points further down for me was understanding how the game can be rigged and, and I mean, in life, you know, let's say if you look at the systems that are around you, the medical system, the media, the school system, the big question you can sit with is, are they built to raise strong, aware, independent, financially secure, emotionally strong men, or do they want obedience and and creating a worker. And that's one of those things I say is educating yourself on how the world works. Because you will be, you know, I think as you go through life, if you have social media for one, or you look at the news on it, you will be manipulated. Whether you like it or not, you know, subconsciously, they want your attention and your energy and in a way to adapt your values to what the media want and what you don't want to go through life is being a puppet. So for me, you know, being able to question everything and anything around you as best you can with forges boyhood to manhood. Because I still know a lot of men that I would say are so brainwashed by the media that they can't ever think for themselves. They think they do, but they don't. So I would say for any boy, listen to this. When I say about knowing your path in life, we're told, in a way, the only path in life is to go to school to get, you know, to memorize as much stuff as you can, to pass a test that's kind of pointless. So you can then get a job in a big corporation and get paid money to sit at a desk in a box for 200 hours a month until the day you're allowed to retire and then go and enjoy life. What's great and links to getting around other men that are living their ideal life is for you. Can you look outside of the system and think, you know, what if I learned from people that are where I want to be, running their own business, that are super fit, that are aware of how the world works, like surrounding yourself with those kind of guys and understanding that, you know, if you're ill, the doctor isn't always the best place to go. If you want a career, going and working for someone else is good, but you don't want to do it for the rest of your life and you have to ask permission for time off if you work for someone else, there's basically a limit on how much you can ever earn. I know this. I have guys in my own network who, yes, they've got a good job, but there's two things. One, let's say they earn 60 or 70,000 a year. Now, even if their salary got doubled, which is never going to do, their ceiling is like 120 to 140,000 a year, and that's it. And you're going to pay 45% of that in tax. So for the child that's becoming a boy, becoming a man, realizing that the Options are there for you to build your ideal life, but don't feel like the options are limited to the system or the matrix that's built around you. It's an interesting rabbit hole to go down.

Right, I love this, I love this. I've recently done some of this. We talked about habits, identity with a big group of boys recently I've been working with and we do some vision work, like five years from now, three years from now, 12 months from now, six months from now, and how you link what you need to do now with where you want to go in the future. You would not believe how many of them, when questioned to think for themselves without external influence, drew a blank on what life they actually want. That didn't fit the traditional model, you know, and I could have, it was a shell shock because they're so deeply challenged. Most they finally get someone in a room that goes, what does the vision of your life look like? And they're like, oh, career. And I'm like, no, start with lifestyle. Like, how do you want your lifestyle to look in five years? Who are you around? Where do you live? Where do you go? Like, what sort of people are energizing you? What energy and value you bring into the world? Start there and then let's work back. And a lot of them like, oh God, no one's challenged us to think like this before. You know, these are well educated young, young men, you know, in, in the independent school sector and they're not being challenged to go, get out the box, there's the door, let's see what's actually out there. But you know what, what's exciting and is they are starving, starving for it. Like, they love it when you, they want challenge. Like they've got such an appetite for challenge. And to see a completely different viewpoint.

Of the world isn't that important though? Because I would say it doesn't matter if you're, you know, a, a 20 year old, 50 year old, 70 year old or a 14 year old. I, I talk a lot about the framework of like, I call it an ignite formula. And to run through those things, you would say that step one is like that you have a silent struggle. Now that might mean that, you know, it's just a challenge in your life, whatever that is. But I would say that awareness of that challenge is, is key because if you don't know that you've got an issue going on, then it doesn't really matter. But it's. Perhaps we could come on to AI in a minute because I think that's very important for boys to understand. But I call it like your AI mindset, your attitude and intentions. Because if you want to coast and you just want to settle for an average Monday life, like, that's great. But if you have the intentions to do something exciting with your life, you've got to make sure you consume these kind of podcasts, you try and get to events, you set up a LinkedIn profile as early age as you can and start networking with people. But the biggest one for me there is I have massive respect for guys that are in great shape, because you can't buy great shape. You know, you have to put in the sets and reps and the press ups. No one can do your press ups for you. Which is why for me it's like, what does it say, you know, train like a warrior and rest like a king, is that you want to be mentally and physically strong for whatever comes your way as a boy and as a man. But if you put in the work now, when you're 15, 17, 19, when your testosterone is high, you can kind of, you can sculpt that strong body that will last you decades, as opposed to the man that stays, you know, never goes to the gym, never lifts weights, doesn't look at his protein intake. You might need to be that strong man for your family and your, you know, anybody else one day. And starting now, whatever age you are, is making sure you're, you know, a capable strong boy. Lad, man, he's. For me, he's like so important, you can't even put a price on it.

Yeah, mate, there's, I think, especially in today's, Today's. Well, the challenge I know they're dealing with is the fine line of, like, social media is a big player in this young men now. The fine line of you've got. They can't be what they can't see, right? So you've got many fathers who are pretty much like a Homer Simpson, you know, goes to work, works hard for his family. Brilliant. Will sit there with his beer down the pub and there's all sorts we can undo with that. Which I don't want to go down that rabbit hole just yet, but treats life at the home. Simpson falls asleep from the TV on a Sunday, doesn't get on the ground and play with the kids. You know, there's all them kind of things. And then the other part of that is boys that go on social media and go, oh, my God, I need the six pack. Oh, my God, I've got to look this way. I've got to have the pecs, I've got to have this. And you meet boys, especially in 16, 17, who were training like bodybuilders and losing all their functionality. Like as you would not believe me, I'm doing some yoga or some animal flow. A lot of the time when we're looking at how we overcome stress and a bit of anxiety and find flow through the body, hardly any of them. And it's embarrassing because some of them have got semi professional contracts in rugby clubs. When they leave school, they can't even hold their body weight and crawl on a floor. And I'm like, this is embarrassing. Like boys, you, you should be able to still be connected to being function, being functional. We've got this fine line of teaching boys that to have real, real pride in their body, but to use it in functional ways. How many of them pick up 60 kilogram sandbags right over their shoulder a few times and get on the floor, do some press ups, then sprint 400 meters, come back like a lot of them are just like upper, where's the mirror?

Do you know one of the biggest, if, let's say someone's listening to that, and it could be, you know, a guy in his, in his twenties, upwards, let's say in adulthood or boyhood, one of the greatest easy tests you can do is go and do an obstacle course race. And because this is where you don't want to be a, let's say, let's say if you could build the perfect male physique to not, not aesthetically how it looks, but how it performs. What I see you want to be is like a soldier. And what I mean by that is you need to be able to run, you know, 10 miles, but you also need to be able to lift a 60 kilogram sandbag and do the monkey bars and not have zero upper body strength. And that's where, when I was in the city, I got bored of playing football and I, I broke my ankle and I'd had injuries. I was like, oh, I'm just done with it after 20 years of playing and I started doing obstacle course races. And what I realized very quickly was if you're a brilliant runner but no upper body strength, you can't, you're not very good. If you've got massive upper body strength but you can't run, you're not very good. And that balance in the middle in a way for me is like the perfect mix of, you know, can you lift heavy weights, can you run, can you sprint, can you crawl, can you, you know, are you living with a body that feels loose as opposed to completely rigid. And again, if you're young and you can start getting into that stuff early, you educate yourself on how the body works and like as you know how important things like yoga and Pilates might be, not just the weights and build that body that is capable of anything.

Basically my hours. Yeah, I love that. I always say to the boys, we've got to look at the body as a transportation to experience life. Like the body is the thing that allows us to go to the hike when someone offers it. It's the one that says after you want to come and play. Whatever it is. The body is the ability to express and explore life. And if it's not healthy and looked after, then we just restrict our ability to have tremendous experiences of this thing, this journey, this path we get to go on.

Well, and you know, for those that don't but like, you know what it's like to have had serious injuries. I know what it's like to have had a collapsed lung which meant I couldn't do any sport for at least six months. I also have had, you know, a broken nose, a broken ankle, a broken wrist, I've torn ligaments the ankle playing, you know, football or all these things. And when you lose that ability, literally your life is like it's crumbling because you're, if you're not physically fit, it's so hard. And knowing I have guys in my network that are in a wheelchair because they had a car accident many years ago and for them you realize what you don't appreciate and you don't value is your ability to be able bodied. And when you speak to guys that are like in a wheelchair and say what I'd give to be able to just go for a run or be able to pick my kids up if they've fallen over. And you know, for me it's like you got to take care of yourself. And you're right, it doesn't have to be a cover model body, but it needs to be a strong, capable body that can withstand say a 10 mile run, you should be able to run a marathon. I don't think running long distance is good for you, but if you're capable of it and you should be able to do, you know, pull ups and bench press and all this stuff as a well rounded man, hence why I call my business the whole man. Because if one area is letting you down, it might drag the rest of it down.

Yeah, my, I think this is a great bridge to Lead us into tech. Because like you, we have a similar message. I'm always like, cut everything off. Like, turn off all your social media for a month. Turn off your news for a month. Let's see what you believe about yourself and the world.

Go ghost or go monk as the, as the terms are.

Yeah, exactly. And I'm always like, if you to shut the whole thing off for a month because let's be honest, like no one on these platforms really gives a about any of us and we don't miss out on anything. If we turned everything off, what would you eat? How would you think? What's your beliefs about the world? How do you use your body? You know what I mean? And I think it's a brilliant segue into talking about, like you said, don't let tech use you, use it.

Yes, it's in a way, I look at it that you need to turn AI and social media into because they are just a tool, but you need to turn them into a weapon as opposed to an emotional crutch. And what I see and when I speak to a lot of men and I've found myself doing it, you realize sometimes when you're pissed off, you end up just picking up your phone. When you're bored, you pick up your phone. You might just end up scrolling and basically looking at other people's lives. And I think if you look, on average, most people are getting weaker with tech because they're distracted and they're like reactive to everything. So for me, it's very much about can you create as more than you consume. And I don't see any reason why now with the use of AI and it's, you know, most people don't even know 1% of what AI is capable of. And I don't pretend I'm an expert, but I, you know, I've been learning over the last year or so is that there's never been an easier time to make, when I say make money online, but create some kind of business that could be. It doesn't have to be your sole income, but it could be the gateway to more money, more freedom, more connections. So for me, I think AI isn't going to go anywhere. Yes, it is scary. And yes, people like Elon Musk, whether you like him or not, he wants to put chips in people's brains, which I find highly questionable. And you will always be told it's for your own good. You know, multiple things in the government will be rolled out, it's for your own good. But you realize there's a nefarious reason behind it. But with AI, it's not going away. And it would have been akin to if you worked on a farm, you know, decades ago and you had a horse and track, horse and car, and someone bought in a tractor and they had it up the farm. You're like, you either join it and get it or you lose. So for me, I see now if boys don't learn AI and the capabilities, you know, you're going to lose out to people that do, be it in business, in fitness. And you could now go into AI and just say, look, here's my height, weight. My goal is to add some muscle or to create a plan. For me, you don't need necessarily personal trainers. Like it or not, it's going to do away with a lot of jobs. But I think for a lot of people, they'll allow themselves to be replaced by AI because they weren't useful enough, they weren't valuable enough. So for a child, I think the other thing they'll come up against is adults don't understand AI so people fear what they don't understand, usually. Classic example, bitcoin. I mean, you know, bitcoin's been around for 15 years now. You ask, you know, 100 people on the street, probably 95 of them, 95 out of the hundred still don't really understand what bitcoin is. Well, if they can't understand that now, AI is so much newer than that that you'll try to speak to people about AI and explain it and they just won't get it. Whereas I try and explain people. It opens up a world of possibilities. So for me it's look at social media as a tool and you've got to think about creating, not consuming.

If you could give. I mean, I've got my own, I've got my own ideas on this, but people are going to be sick of sometimes of me sharing that. What boundaries would you put in place? How would you set something up? If you've got someone listening to this and going on, this is brilliant. I understand all that, but I find it really, really hard. So how do I. How do I create an environment for success for myself?

So if you're a. One of the hardest things is to switch off from social media because you think that you need to be on it all the time. So number one would be, and there's literally a list, but number one would be like, switch off your notifications. I mean, you know, it's things like LinkedIn, for example, if I open my phone you know, there's some great films where it will explain that it will send you notifications because it wants you to go back on the platform. So the little round dot with a one or a two or three makes you go, oh, this might be something. So turning your notifications off can really help. There's also ways you can change your screen from a colored screen on your phone, if that's what you're using, to black and white, which means it's less exciting to look at the colors. But I would say, as opposed to trying to limit your time on social media because it is hard, don't limit your time. Use it better. So I have a concept called the One Night a Week man, and that's One night a week. And what that means is if you said, one night a week, I'm gonna try and create something like improve my life. Let's call it a side hustle. For argument's sake, could One night a week, you educate yourself using social media and or AI on how to create a side income. It could be a faceless YouTube channel, it could be multiple things, but it could be based around your interest in creating an ebook, which you could then sell online. There's so many different ways to go about it. But instead of around on social media, looking at people who you don't even know, or watching men run around fields chasing balls, who the men are all fitter than you, stronger than you, have more sex than you, and are much richer than you, why are you watching them when you should be watching what you're doing yourself and creating something? So, you know, you could say, right, you know what? One night a week, I'm literally going into monk mode or ghost mode or whatever you want to call it of I'm that one night a week man, if I'm trying to spend three or four hours tonight creating something online. And if the rest of the time you find yourself delving in and out, that's fine. But at least dedicate one night a week, or four hours at the weekend or something to educating yourself on how AI works, how copywriting works, how sales work, how design works, all these different things. Because what will happen is, and I push this to guys who are in their 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s as well. We've only got 24 hours in a day. And if you can create, you know, if you end up in a job that you like, don't like, or have you, you can't scale that, you're not going to work 27 hours a day. It doesn't work like that. So there's limited upside to you getting a job monetarily especially. But if you can find what you love and digitize it somehow, that is scalable. And for me that's where it gets exciting because, you know, the sky is the limit if you understand how AI can work and use social media. One of the biggest trends I will see, I think coming is live shopping and at the moment that's for low cost items. But if you go on to like tick tock, you will see that people will literally just have the camera on live and they'll be in like a showroom just selling stuff. And what you often find is people will pay more than they could have bought it in the shop because it's from someone and we're kind of lazy, we can sit there on our phones scrolling. So imagine if you now as a 16 year old said, what am I interested in? Let's pick rugby. I'm gonna, I'm gonna chart on social media my learnings. So you're not saying you're an expert, but your learnings about rugby as a 16 year old. How can you tackle better, be stronger, run faster, learn better rules, whatever it is, better skills. You could create an e book around that. You could go onto a site like Gumroad, which means you don't pay any fee unless you sell it. You could then share that in rugby, Facebook, you know, channels and what have you and you might make some money from it. You could start a YouTube video, you could comment live on rugby games going on. There's multiple ways you can monetize your interests using AI, but most people would rather just sit and watch other people's lives than actually put the work in.

But I find this fascinating. I've got one question. It's only to go against, not against at all. In a, in a world where we are. This is just my opinion. Because of tech and because like things that AI are so attractive, we attract more and more people to distinguish connection and community. And we're made to believe that by scrolling on something we're filling the void of connection. So if I'm a young person and I've got going from school, mum and dad aren't very cool. Like they're fending for themselves, they've had a long old day or they've come back for the weekend and they're just like, oh, I just want to be with my mates. How do we plug that gap? Like, you know, and I'm as well as I do is a brilliant book. Lost Connections and it's all around the anxious generation that we live in, the unresilant generation that they say we live in. And I always say it's nothing to do with the youngsters, it's all to do with the adults. It's all to do. They're a mirror of the world we've created for them and we can't blame them. So when we talk about the lack of contribution in our local community and our global community and the lack of empathy and the lack of community conviction, of standing for something, where if we promote all these things, where then, where then que create a segue where we are back in person to person in a room where we, huh.

The real world.

And the real world, like, I mean, AI, you make some really brilliant points and I've, you know, I've bullet pointed some of those things down for myself. But at the same time, my work and all my fulfillment and my superpower is when I'm in a room.

And this, this comes back to, I think there's point one we made about like, who you hang around with is not just who you hang around with, it's how you hang around with them. And you and I now are talking on tech. So we should celebrate the fact that you and I have had hours and hours and hours of conversations in the past and 90 of them have been via tech. But also we know that probably the most valuable time we had together was when we spent a weekend together. So it is. You know, people talk about work life balance. Sometimes you look at life and tech balances as another one. It's so important to find that when I say like mixture of going out without your phone or having it switched off and having meaningful connections. It's a great reason why a lot of people struggle with working from home. Because when you go into an office environment, as a youngster, I sat in an office with 300 people and I learned from them. And you talked and you got a coffee and you went for lunch together and you had human connection. Sitting at home looking at screens all day has no human connection. So it's finding that balance and being able to switch off. I encourage a lot of guys to get out to like net when, let's just say networking events. But my worry now is we're drifting and it's a good point to the contactless society of, you know, Everybody just using WhatsApp. And if someone phones you up, you're like, what are you, what are you calling me for? Like, don't call me your mentalist. You know, Just, just WhatsApp me or just telegram me or something. So there has to be a huge value put on for boys getting out into nature and if possible with your shoes off and grass under your toes in woodland or whatever. So it's about saying, you know what, spend time on tech because that can really help you find more freedom and purpose in life and connect with more people. But also equally, you must have time where you disconnect completely.

Yeah, I think some of that is really, I mean we're putting like adult listeners to this as well. And I think a lot of that is when you look in your environment, who you surround yourself with, how many adults in their phone set in their home environment with young boys and the phone's next to them while the TV's on, how far away is the phone from the dinner table? How many boundaries do we put in place as adults for young people that observe? You know what I find funny at is schools that go, yeah, we've got a no phone policy. That's brill. Why are you walking around the corridors them texting on your phone teachers? Because like you're just incongruent. It's toxic leadership. Like, yeah, go back 10 years when someone come and found you in a classroom when they needed you or when you logged on to an email after the lesson. You can't tell boys and girls, this is a, this is a like, you know, mobile phone tech free area. But you not for me. Like, and this is where people go. I don't know why the kids are like, they are. Well, because of the adults. Like, and it's just, I think it's for the young men what the message is. We humanity needs you to have a strong backbone. Understand? Adults are so unaware of their actions, yet they want to project onto you, take ownership. Like, yeah, we're gonna. There's very few people like you and me out there have the level of self awareness who've done so much deep work in ourselves to be the best we possibly can in leading our life and our families and this with, with some of the few. And I think it's just passing back to young men listening. It's going to need them to listen to this and go, okay, I can't do anything about them. They're going to project, but they're so unaware of their actions. I can take a foot forward here. I can lead.

Yeah. And, and there's the key of it comes down to is your decision, isn't it? And you know, we all have, I would say coping mechanisms, but ultimately I've had it before where, you know, I realized when I worked in the city, if you had a good day, you wanted to go and drink alcohol to celebrate. If you had a bad day, you wanted to go and drink alcohol to commiserate. And if there was a. You know, if there was a party, included alcohol. And it's not that I used to drink a lot, but when I did drink, I drink a lot because it was like a tap that opened and I then had to stand back and look at myself and think, why am I drinking alcohol? What? You know, what, am I numbing? Am I numbing pain? Am I. Is it just an emotional crutch? And for boys, ultimately, it comes down to your decision. Because if you're strong enough to have conviction in your own choices, then it doesn't matter what is going on around you. You're able to look and kind of step back and think, you know what? Like, yes, you're eating shit, you're watching rubbish, you're scrolling all night, you're doing whatever. And that could be brothers, sisters, you know, teammates, parents, whatever. I'm strong enough for my own will to know what I am. And I'm not standing for, basically, which isn't easy. And I. I'd like to pretend that all the men I know have got that nailed. No one has, but they're. If you're a work in progress, you're. You're working in the right direction, and that leads on to trajectory. This is one thing that I would always say to kids and boys and men and, you know, retired men, whatever, is. What is your trajectory? If you. If you feel like things are going down in your life, you know, be it financially, physically, mentally, spiritually, family, whatever it is, educationally, what can you do to flip the trajectory so it's going up instead of going down?

Yeah, I love that, mate. I love that there's a. I feel like it's gonna have to be a part two to this, mate. If, before we shut this down, is there anything that I haven't asked you that you wish I had?

One point, I would say, about when we say, like, forged for manhood, the transition is missing in. In. In my understanding of it. You know, tribes and different cultures, years ago had a ceremonies to take a boy from feeling like he was a boy. And obviously it's only an event, but it's that it's. It marks an occasion when you feel like you're going from a boy to a man. And now there's very few trials, very few mentors. There's very few clear moments where it's like now you are a man. And that ends up leading to boys feeling like disconnected, seeking approval. So for me it's important to look around and say, you know, how can you find ways to test yourself to feel like you're going from a boy to a man? Because you're not, you're not born strong. I don't think you're made strong through your life choices. So that for me, you know, seek out discomfort through pain, pressure tests, challenges, and see how that makes you go from a boy to at some point feeling like you're a man. That's a long winded answer for your question. But you see where I'm going with it.

Yeah, no, I love that, mate. I was talking to someone the other day about was you. One of, you're one of the people I've shared the idea with. But I think most men get to a point in their life where, because they haven't been through that, the question always comes, do I have what it takes? And it's only those of us that have gone through a lot and made sure we've deliberately seeked intentional discomfort and growth in, in a purposeful way that we, we're not, we're not sitting here shivering in self doubt asking ourselves questions. Yet most men, because they never did that as a boy, are always asking, am I enough? Am I good enough? Do I have what it takes? And then we put our head in the sand. Yeah. So yeah, I love that, mate. A bit of a, bit of a deeper question before we check out, but what is the world asking from Ant right now?

The world for me, I see it as my role, forgetting, you know, family and being a dad and all that stuff, which is kind of obvious. That is probably the most important thing is, is how can I affect more men? And at the moment, in a way those men are the ones that are, I would say, successful but unfulfilled. So for me it's, how can I reach more of those men and then kind of, you know, bring them into the tools and ideas and strategies and events and network that I have. Because I see it as that ripple effect. You know, you take a man who maybe is 40 odd and he's a dad and he's works or he's got a business, what have you, if you can improve, help him improve his life and take ownership. That ripple effect helps his kids, his colleagues, his parents, his wife, everybody around him and in theory his community, which at the moment, I would say in a country that feels like it's being steadily dismantled. The fabric of it. Having a strong community around you is going to be very, very helpful and valuable in months and years to come.

Nice, mate. Where can everyone find you out?

Easiest way is on the website, which is wholemanacademy.com or just search Anthony Astbury on LinkedIn or Instagram or TikTok or wherever else you can think of. Basically love it.

What three words would you check out with, bud?

Relieved. We because I need to go for one in a minute and silence because my kids have gone out and it's just nice to have a bit of peace and quiet whilst I'm doing a podcast. I love it.

I'm gonna check out with Insightful, I'm gonna check out with Inquisitive and I'm gonna check out with. I'm gonna check out Courage, Mate, from the back of this podcast. I feel like, right, I've, I've had ideas throughout this. I've bullet pointed things and I'm like, right, there's stuff I want to bring to life in the world. So, mate, it's been an absolute pleasure. Thanks for being, thanks for being on the pod, mate. I know we're going to get a part 2 in.

Love it anytime.

Cheers, Ant.