Recruiters Mindset Podcast - How to become a Whole Man

Welcome to Recruitment Mindset. Our mission is to serve you with bold conversations about business, recruitment, leadership and personal development. Open your mind and prepare for discovery, creation and transformation. And here's your host, Ross Cunningham.

So, hi and welcome. It's Ross Cunningham here, your host with the Recruiter Mindset podcast. Today I'm super excited to have Anthony Ashbury from the Whole Men Academy. And today we're talking about how to become a whole man. There's a number of takeaways that you'll receive during this podcast for your listening pleasure, and I really hope you tune in to further episodes to learn more about the journey of the Whole Men Academy. So, Anthony, first of all, just to kick off, do you just want to introduce yourself, please?

Certainly, Ross. Thanks for that and good intro. Yeah. I'm the CEO and co founder of the Whole Man Academy. I spent 20 years working in the city and left for a, let's call it a life of more fulfillment and started the Wholeman Academy two years ago with my co founder, Matthew Shaw, who's the BBC news editor. And we have grown it into a initiative where we encourage guys to get together, which started just in London, but now thankfully is slowly spreading around the.

World, which is fantastic. I think I've been monitoring and watching the Homeland Academy for a while. And what's interesting, you did mention there's a number of different listeners that tune into what you're doing at the Home Man Academy. Can you just quickly talk us through that before we go into the key points of this podcast, please?

Yeah, I mean, our journey has been, let's say a slow one because we've all got full time jobs and in a way, when we first did the Whole Man Academy event, firstly, we didn't even know if anybody would come to it because guess what, guys, getting together doesn't happen very often at all. And since then, our journey has taken us from live events and prior to the joyous lockdown, we actually had already been planning to do a podcast, but we kind of rushed it through as soon as everybody was stuck at home. And what that's done, of course, is it sounds so obvious, but it's increased our reach. The difficulty with the events was of course a guy needs to be able to get to London on the day, maybe get, I don't mean permission from his partner, but be okay with it, et cetera, et cetera. And whereas a podcast, of course, you can listen to it on the toilet if you need to, and you can, anybody in the world. So we, our analytics show that we've had primarily, obviously it's from the UK, but I mean, we've had people from roughly 15 different countries listening. And it seems a bit strange sometimes that these guys in all these different countries are listening to the content we're putting out. But of course it's great because it increases the reach and why shouldn't they benefit from the stuff we're putting out?

Yeah. One of the things I found really interesting with your reach, whether it's been global, was the female listeners that are tuning into the show as well. Can you just talk me through that? Because sometimes when we mention whole men academy, there's actually some ladies out there that are looking to understand more about men and. Yeah, just talk us through that.

Yeah, no, it's a good point. I mean, it was a. Maybe it was. I wouldn't say it was a surprise to us, but it was interesting to see that, you know, after even maybe we were up to now kind of 20 episodes of the podcast, that it was around kind of 25, 27% of the listeners were female. And of course that I remember when I was sitting in the offices of the London sock company who are one of the guys, one of the companies who were sponsoring us. And at the time I was speaking to them about marketing. And of course back then they said to me, remember that, you know, a lot of our audience is female because of course their luxury socks are generally bought by females who are buying as presents for their dad, son, partner, etc. And we're getting that obviously with ourselves the realization that we need to be aware of 25% of our audience are female and maybe tap into what they want to hear about men and how they can understand them more. I mean, you can't understand men just as much as we can understand women. That's a hassle myself sometimes, but we can try.

Yeah, no, it's good, it's good. I think for the listeners on this podcast today, there's three things that we discussed that we want to be sharing. The first one was to understand your thoughts and how to control these feelings. The second one was, oh, shit, I've lost it there. I've lost it there, mate. I will come back to that. So the first one was understand your thoughts and control your feelings. The second one was.

Important to importance of talking.

Do you know, I didn't even write that down, mate. That's how nervous I was. Sorry about that. Okay, just clack on.

Here's the best thing you can do.

Yep.

Is not edit this.

Ah, shit, man.

Who cares if you fuck up.

Yeah, it's true, it's true.

Do you know what? And it makes you a normal human being.

It does, mate. It does, it does. Okay, so minus the fuck up then, Anthony.

Yep.

So the three things we want to pass over to the listeners today is one, understanding your thoughts and controlling your feelings. The second one is why it's important to talk, and I do believe that myself. And the third one was under fucking understand. It takes time.

Yeah, that's the one.

Yep. Okay.

Being okay. That things take time. Do you want me to jump into the first one?

Yeah, jump into the first one. Understanding your thoughts and controlling your feelings.

Yeah, I mean this comes from. We've actually recently had him on the podcast. There's a guy called David Key who is a life coach and he had an event a few years ago which was a full week event at Nebworth House, which is a fantastic venue. And what I learned there was very much about coaching and the mindset. And we learned nlp and I nearly said ventriloquism. That's not, it's something completely different. But what we did learn was about the three principles and that being mind, consciousness and thought. And I would encourage listeners to go away and investigate a guy called Sid Banks, who was a, I believe a Scottish welder who had an insight at a certain point in his life. I won't, I won't go through the whole story, but the important takeaway, if you had one from that, and it sounds so eye wateringly simple, but I think it's something that could change people's lives in an instant, if you get it, is that your thoughts control your feelings. Good. And people will say, yeah, yeah, yeah, I know. And you say, but do you know, do you understand that you get to choose how you feel?

Yep. I think sometimes as well. I think sometimes subconsciously when it comes to how you think and feel, you know, something's not aware of that. That analogy of driving a car and then you realize, how did I even get here? Well, that'd be quite nice to drive your car at the moment. Unfortunately, if this lockdown, we don't get the chance. But yeah, I totally agree with that. I think your thoughts, you can see it in your mind and you can see in your hands essentially. And I think you've got to find a way in how you can actually control these thoughts and behaviors which in return can help you develop.

I mean, that's the thing, as you said, it's an awareness. Now, the way I use it as example, when someone asks Me what? You know, what exactly do you mean by that? Last year, my nan passed away. Okay. So if you gave me a minute or two to think about my nana, showed her some pictures, and maybe played the Johnny Mathis beautiful tune that we played at a funeral, I guarantee that I will burst into tears. So what's happened? I wasn't focusing on her and the situation and the sadness and the good times, etc. But I've now diverted all my attention to it. And what has that done? It's created a reaction in me and suddenly I'm crying. So, of course we know that what you're focusing on is going to affect how you feel.

That's good, I think, for the listeners as well. What I'd like to ask you, Anthony, in terms of mindset, what tools would you use to actually work through that process and keep you super sharp, focused along that journey?

Good question. I think one of them is first just educating yourself on the slightly deeper level of what that actually means. So, I mean, Sid Banks has written some great books that are very thin. You know, some of the greatest books in the world are those that are not these huge kind of textbook ones, but are actually quite thin. And just educating yourself on it and understanding a little bit more about the three principles. Because when you get it, you'll be. You kind of look up at the sky and think, my world has been changed or transformed. And I like the fact that it sounds very dramatic because if you have that insight, then your life will dramatically change.

Yeah.

Now, that's not to say if you get pissed off, that's fine. You can't help how you feel in an instant. But for me, you know, I've got two kids and I'm at home at the moment with my partner, and we're recording podcasts and kids are knocking on the door and we're having all the fun of it. But generally through life, you know, we all react to things. Actually having that understanding of, oh, hold on a minute. I've just got up in my head about something, but I get to decide if I'm pissed off or not.

Yeah, it's good. It's a very good point. And it's funny that you mentioned about the kids and family. You know, I've had to send my family out just to do this podcast today, and I feel quite bad for it. But the thing is that my wife's so understanding and she knows the journey that we're all on because we're all part of it as a family. And it's like you and your family, you're part of this journey together. And that's what I want to ask as well. Before we move on to the second point, when it comes to your own personal development, how long have you been on this journey for? And when did you find something significant transformed it for you? And starting the whole Main Academy in.

2018, around a year before I left working in the city. And in my last role I was doing liquid petroleum, gas shipping, derivatives, and I set up the kind of trading desk for that, which sounds more spectacular than it was. And actually probably even before that, I was working, doing carbon emissions broking and then fuel or broking. And I had become mildly disillusioned with what I was doing because it was a fairly toxic atmosphere that you were in. You know, I've spoken on different podcasts about the fact that, you know, your sole job really was to make as much money as possible, which is fine, there's nothing wrong with that. But it was very much a one day you might make loads of money and you're the hero, and the next day you make zero and you're, you know, your. Your mindset has shifted to a. One of disappointment and frustration, and the next day it might be good, bad, etc. So I started listening to podcasts and my. It was actually my partner Emma that got me into podcasts and she said, oh, you should listen to this podcast. It was a guy called James Swanick and another chap called Andy Murphy who started talking about Mindset and also about Tony Robbins. And I thought, this guy sounds interesting. So we were lucky enough to have a fair amount of cash in the bank, so it didn't matter how much we spent on our personal development journey. And Emma and I went straight to the Tony Robbins event in London at Unleash the Power Within. And then I signed up for the Life and Wealth Mastery and Date with Destiny that was in Miami. And that kind of really got me started. Podcast and then Tony Robbins.

Fantastic. Fantastic. It's quite interesting because generally myself, I remember I attended an event in 2003 and it was called Columba 1400. And I had the great opportunity from my work at that time to go on this journey. And for me, it was the first step of transformation in terms of my thoughts, my mind, how to control these things. And then the journey went on to having an opportunity to go over to America and watch some of the amazing authorities in the world of personal development, because I think it's very important, Anthony, what I've seen, obviously, through your Journey and through the things that you've been doing, you've got to walk your own path as well. You just tend to find there's a lot of people might talk that good game. I think you have to walk through it to really understand you as an individual and how you can control yourself and your emotions, keeping them intact. Even when you have that roller coaster ride of emotions when things are going well and you hit crash, rock bottom, you've got to be able to control that.

Yeah, you're right. I think I've always been a fairly calm and mildly level headed individual. But the understanding that I now have and the insight that I had means that able to cope with pretty much any or any situation in a, in a, in a, in a good manner and actually with. You're right about walking your own path. I think a lot of people can get bogged down with personal development and jump from person to person, guru to guru, book to book, blah blah, blah. My advice on that is always for people is find one person and stick with, you know, let's look at Richard Branson. If you read everything that he's ever, you know, written or podcast or interview, what have you and book is written, I'm pretty sure that you'll come out of it, you know, with a great frame of mind and a real kind of new level of business knowledge. Look at Tony Robbins. If you read everything that he'd written and all his films, podcasts, etc. You will transform yourself.

You will, you will. And I think that the big part of that transformation and it's great to learn, I'm a big fan of personal development journey but you've got to take immediate action. Take action. So for example, and I think we had this conversation, I would read books before but would never take notes of certain key points in the book. And what I found is actually I was reading these books but I wasn't actually recording the great takeaways. And I think that's extremely important that when you are doing things like reading books or focusing on the one person that can help you move forward your journey, take moments to just to think about what that really means to you and then start implementing that with immediate action in your life and then you'll see that will be transformational.

No, you're totally right. And it's because people see personal development and there's nothing wrong with it, but see it as entertainment. I mean you can watch YouTube videos and get motivated and pumped up and then go right, turn it off. That was good entertainment. And carry on with something. So you're right. It's about, you know, we're all on our own path, journey, whatever you want to call it. And some people need to take drastic action. Some people just aren't ready.

Yeah, no, that's good. That's good. It's good. I think that I could certainly say that I've been on that journey myself. There's been times where I felt ready. There's been times where I've tried to be ready, but it's not quite happened yet. And I think it's then just something just clicks, you know, something clicks in that mindset. I am ready to take this on board now and go for it. And I think that's just. It cuts away the procrastination or the feeling of failing or whatever it may be to hold you back. There's lots of these things and I think in our great book for listeners is Feel the Fear and Do It Anyway. Fantastic book. Which I'll send in the link details below. But that kind of moves us on to the second point which we want to share with our listeners today. And that's the importance of talking. Do you just want to talk me through your journey and your story with that? Please?

Yeah. I mean, I think when you work in a city for a long time, you don't really, and probably like most guys, it doesn't matter what sector you're working in. You have, and I tried to call it the other day, high level conversation. And one is not that it's highly intellectual, but it's not deep conversation with people. And of course, you know, your stock response is, how are you doing? Yeah, I'm fine. Yeah, good. And you know, most people wouldn't even say, I'm not, not feeling great, let alone anything that's, that's deeper than that. And that comes from, you know, the whole ethos of the whole man academy was encouraging guys to get together to talk. And now the interesting thing there is we're not saying that everybody should get together and talk. If you don't want to, don't do it. I mean, I remember when we first started, there was a guy had commented on one of our tweets saying all you're doing is trying to turn all men into women because they just want to talk all the time. Well, you know, quite frankly, that's, that's the attitude. That's not helping, guys, full stop. But you're right. If you don't want to, then no one's forcing you to. But our events are encouraging guys to get together, learn from each other and we call it kind of learning from the each each segment of a man. So you've got again, you've got the, let's say the finances, his health, his fitness, which is different to health, his career, his relationships, his sex life, his appearance, his ability to dress, cook, etc, etc, etc. These are all segments of the Pie of Man which we're trying to bring each of those levels up for a guy if he wants to.

You've already overwhelmed me just outlining that I'm feeling overwhelmed, so that's great. That pie illustration that you've mentioned is fantastic for the listeners when they're looking at their own personal journey in life. What sort of tips would you you provide and managing to spin all these plates? Because I know when it comes to being a family man with two kids, you've got that part to have a focus in, to make the tea, sometimes do the dishes, have those adult conversations as well, which some things can be missed when you've got a child. How do you work through that? Just share me some insights, please.

Yeah, I mean, I think what a lot of us, if you took someone through the segments of the pie of man, as we want to call it, I mean you could call it the wheel of life, we can dress it up as whatever you want. But of course some people are doing better at those and some people are less interested. Some people don't care about their fitness, some people don't care about their health and finances. So it's all very individual, of course. But I always think a lot of them we're doing well in already. It's just about saying, you know what, it's hard to bring all of them up. Let's say they're all seven out of ten. If you say, you know what, at the moment I just want to bring one of them up to a higher level, then you can focus on that. But the rest, you're spinning these plates anyway, you know, because if you weren't, then we'd be dead because you wouldn't have your health and. Or you'd be broke and you'd have no career and all the different things that go with it. So it's about saying, you know, you haven't always got to improve all of them at the same time. They're all ticking over. And if one is really important to improve, focus on that one first.

Just a quick one as well, just for the listeners in terms of that. Pyreman, do you have like a template that could be accessed, that could be sent out to potential listeners that could maybe help them.

That's a good question. We're working on it. We want to have. I mean, we know now the game has changed, and again, we plan to have online courses anyway, but we want to make sure we get them right, not just have an online course for the sake of an online course. I've taken enough in my time where some of them are great, some of them crap.

Yeah.

Therefore, we're trying to take our time over it. And I think it's just important for guys to realize that it's okay for some of those segments not to be doing so well. And that comes down to when Matt and I started the whole Man Academy. It came from sitting down in Soho House, having a cocktail and maybe several glasses of wine and discussing. Matt was interested in the mental health side. I was interested in the mindset, which, of course, that all kind of links together. But what we realized was what was the. The big question for everybody in business should be, what's the problem I'm trying to solve? And for us, it was that guys don't feel okay to get together to talk. But what is that? The problem is there isn't space to get together to talk. And that's what we are not trying to, but are providing through previously live events, through a podcast, through the discussion on that, through our live zoom calls, through our social media, and, you know, trying to encourage guys to learn more about themselves and do life better.

That's good. That's good. I do remember I did a bit of searching myself as a man. I was looking online on YouTube and I was looking at some TedX talks and a good lady, Brenny Brown. I don't know if you've heard of her.

Yes, great TED Talk.

She did fantastic TED talk on vulnerability. And I think, you know, when it comes to this point, importance of talking, we do need to open ourselves up a wee bit and just share how we're actually feeling. Because you know something? There's nothing wrong with that. And I think it helps you build and grow along your journey as well. And that probably one of the things that stood out, Anthony, on your quest, your journey with the whole Men Academy, to have David Gandhi as a global ambassador and a guy that loves the philosophy of what you guys are doing in terms of just talking, you know, having that share of talk amongst men. Just talk me through that, because I think that's an amazing, amazing. An amazing success that you've had there.

Yeah, it's something that, honestly, if you just said when we first started the whole man academy that was going to happen. I'd have laughed, but, you know, through. Through the right people, we got in contact with David and yes, thankfully, he, you know, you can't not like what we're trying to do. I mean, what, what is there not to like about encouraging guys to get together to lead better lives and a life of more purpose and fulfillment? So I remember back when we were sponsored, we were sponsored by geese and hawks, obviously, the Savile Row suit tailor, which was. Which is fantastic itself. And they kindly said, they throw us a party, let's say a launch party.

You throw me a suit.

Well, I do have a lovely suit for them, which, which was, which is very, very kind of to give me. But the funny thing with that was they said, you know, we throw this launch party. And I thought they meant for 30 or 40 guys. And we were like, brilliant. That's. That's fantastic. And then we kind of, you know, scratched the surface, said, you know, what kind of numbers we're talking here. And they were like up to 200 people. You're like, okay, fair enough. That, that's interesting. So we held this big launch event back in March last year, and really it was just launching the initiative itself, but, you know, we had Jeremy vine there and, you know, Gabby Roslyn there and celebrity chefs and singers and bankers and traders and photographers, you know, a whole mixture of people and, you know, Paralympic gold medalists and life coaches and all these different people. And just prior to that, I'd said, would David come to our launch party? Because we knew that would, I always call it get bums on seats. That would really make people stand up, take notice. And he replied back and said he was in somewhere like Beijing or somewhere being on the front cover of like a front cover shoot for a magazine. I think it was gq. And of course, I was just a little bit disappointed. But then he came back and said, is there anything else I can do?

Wow.

And of course we said, well, you know, we'd love to get you to come and speak at one of our events. And I really mean this, you know, I'm 41 or 42 now, I'm not quite sure which one. But when I received the email that had said, right, David said, yep, put him front and center. He'll come to and we'll do another event at Geaton Hawks and he'll come and speak to all the guys. It was one of those moments that I maybe don't get. Were you reading it sounds sad, but you're just like, yes. Like. Because I knew that was. That was. That was a big thing for us. And he did. And that was our biggest event. 65 guys in the room. And it was. It was. It was something I'll always remember.

Yeah. And I think as well, you know, with the homemade academy, to have such an icon like David Gandhi to be an ambassador, I just think, you know, it is amazing. It's an amazing part of the journey that you guys are on. And it's great that he's part of that journey as well, which I just. I think is phenomenal from my point of view.

You.

Congratulations to you and the team. I think it's the job done.

That's why it's a funny one, though, because many people know who David is, but some people don't. And it's like a lot of celebrities. You know, we've had an example, one of the guys from Strictly Come Dancing who came to one of our other events at Funny Enough at Geese and Hawks. And I don't really watch it, although I know what it is and I've seen it a bit. But, you know, for me, couldn't name any of the dancers.

Yeah.

But when Kevin Clifton came in, he's a lovely guy and we really appreciate him taking the time out of his busy schedule to come. Come to one of our events. And it was just funny because you've got. I'm able to chat to him normally because I see him as a normal guy. And guess what? He's a normal guy. But of course, one or two of the people were like, fuck, it's Kevin Clifton. Like, my wife's gonna wet herself when she knows I'm. I'm here with him and, you know, and I'm talking to him. And I guess that's the same with David Gandhi. He is very famous. But some people you speak to will say, oh, I don't know who you're talking about. And other people go, what? David Gandhi. And he is one of the most influential men on the planet, especially on the style side of it. And, you know, he's been on the. I think one of his big campaigns when he was in Times Square on the billboard just in his pants. I'm not sure if any of us are planning on doing that soon.

I do love his PJs, though. I think his jammies that he endorsed by M and S at the time were fantastic. I still wear the interior. Yeah, well.

And that's the biggest. You know, he. He crosses the divide of, obviously, he's in the luxury brand. But he's actually a very nice guy, normal chap. You know, he's got a young daughter. He was. He was living very close to me up here for a while. And, you know, the last time where we met up and had had a drink. It's funny because you talk about dad stuff for the first 40 minutes before you say, oh, yeah, we're supposed to be talking about the whole Man Academy.

Well, that's awesome. Nice. I think that's very important. I think sometimes we can miss that in the journey. Anthony is just actually getting to know somebody truly, you know, asking questions about, you know, your family, kids, you know, how do you manage that in terms of parenthood as a father and so forth. And I think it's really, really good to get to know people on that same level because sometimes yet the way things are pushed out in media and icon status and all these things, it can be a wee bit intimidating, I would imagine. But once you break all these things down, we're just human beings at the end of the day, all on different journeys.

And you're right, we are all on different journeys. And, you know, for the whole Man Academy, as much as any business, we're still, you know, nothing's ever set in stone as to what we can or can't do. Which is why it's nice when you own your company, because no one's telling you what to do. But having David Gandhi backing us and being our first global ambassador, as I said, I always use the term gets bums on seats. It also makes people sit up and take notice because even for, you know, a lot of people might have. Might have seen something about the whole Man Academy and like, all right, yeah. But suddenly when you see that David Gandhi is the global ambassador and David's got, you know, million followers on Instagram and etc, etc, and probably been on more front covers than any man on the planet, people go, oh. And they pay attention. And attention means that more guys see what we're doing and women. And therefore, it raises the level of awareness and people see our initiative and, you know, that's exactly what we're after.

No, it's great. It's awesome. I love it. I love everything that you guys are doing. And that probably brings us on to really the last takeaway point, which is like, you know, having the patience that things take time. Now I have a running conversation with my own personal mentor about this, that things always take longer, they always cost more, and you need to knock away the frustrations of just being patient in the process. Do you just want to talk me through that? Because that's one of your values, is understanding that things take time.

Certainly. I think that probably for us all, if you. If you go back in life to your younger years, you know, sometimes, like we say, if, you know, if you. If you knew then what you knew now, you might do things differently. But even on my own journey, I started working at Glencore when I was pretty much 18. I was absolutely fucking clueless as to what I was doing there. On the day I turned up, I couldn't even remember the name of the lady who was gonna be my boss. Which I think is a really pretty powerful start. But, you know, even at that point, I had no real plan. But then you move to creating good relationships with people, and as we know, you can. You can't. As Steve Jobs said, you can't connect the dots going forward. So it's about actually just not worrying too much about what's, you know, in the future and only knowing necessarily what the next step is. And especially that can help with overwhelm. I mean, you know, if you're. For a lot of people, if you're stuck in life and you're not sure what to do or you're working on a project, as opposed to worrying about, I don't know how to complete the whole thing, just knowing what is the next step can be really beneficial for you. And that's what we've had to implement with the whole Man Academy again. When we started, it was, look, let's just do an event, see who comes along. If no one comes along, we'll do another one. But they did. We had 25, 26 people, guys. And then what should we do? Well, let's set up an Instagram account and let's do this and let's do that, and let's ask someone for sponsorship. And it grows and grows and grows. But you could never have made all this stuff up.

Yeah, it's really quite funny that, because I was on social media this week and I was sharing obviously story about this podcast, and this is a journey that's beginning. And I was saying I'm looking to do some recorded versions first before we go live, because obviously there will be five. There won't be mistakes made. And that's comment I received on LinkedIn, which was, just go now, just do it. So I says, okay, let's go live on Friday. So we're waiting to see if she'll come back and give us that opportunity. So, you know, it's just taking the opportunity as well. Sometimes yet. That's right, you need to do it. Just get out there and now. And sometimes we can let things like overwhelm get in front of us when we're trying to do things correctly, do it properly and so forth. You want to make sure that people that are listening to this podcast are getting a great experience on the journey, but also valuable takeaways to actually use or implement into their own lives if they want that, which I think is important.

Well, Ross, you just hit on an important point for, you know, people listening, or both of the people that will listen to this is that, you know, again, waiting until you're ready, you know, generally is just procrastination. And I know there's trying to think what the saying was, but you know, if you wait until you, you're ready to launch, it's too late. And even our whole Man Academy party, someone who wanted to, which they didn't end up doing it, but feature us on one of their kind of podcasts. And it was a really big UK wide podcast and I was, I was quite excited about it and it didn't happen for various reasons, but he said that to me at the time, so I stole, can we wait? You know, give it a couple of months and let me. And he was like, listen, if you wait to launch, you know, it'd be too late by then. And like with the going live thing, who cares if you make mistakes? Yeah, if people don't like it, then switch off. But you know, if you have a perfectly polished episode for me that tells me what's the stuff you've cut out.

Yeah, maybe it's too posh, it's not been authentic like you're saying earlier. It's quite funny because something you said earlier, you know, when you ask the question like, how are you? I've kind of changed that myself. In the way I speak to someone, I say, how have you been?

Yeah.

The reaction is always totally different rather than who are you? Who have you been? You tend to get a different response to that rather than just, I'm fine.

Because people aren't used to it. And you're like, oh, yeah, I'm not sure. I have to think about it.

Yeah. And I do find that very useful. One thing one of my friends said to me as well about daily management, you know when you say to someone, okay, let's book in that appointment. Just do it there and then just, okay, let's book it now. Look, let's book in the appointment. Let's just get it Done. Now it's just taking that immediate action which I'm a big advocate of.

Well, that, you know, you can go on podcast just talking about, let's call it time management. I mean, you know, you can't manage time but you can manage what you're doing in the 24 hours of the day. I'm still looking for 28 hour days at the moment, but I'm failing in that one.

But you know, it's, it's Anthony, it sounds insane.

Well, husband for others, an extra four hours just to do stuff. But as you said, that's because things, a lot of things just take longer than you think they do.

And I think on a journey as well, that's a really good point I'm making because you know, if I could add on some hours that'd be fantastic. I'd spend that with a family more. But I think you've also got to build your network and also let people help you on your journey because there's some people that have better skills than what you are capable of at this point in your life and vice versa, you have better skills than them. And I think when you find that middle ground point where you can both help each other to move forward in your journeys, it's like gold. That is gold in itself.

The other thing I think, and you mentioned it earlier, is either having your own coach or mentor. And now the difference between those is a coach shouldn't be telling what to do. They're asking you questions to extract the knowledge that you've got and the actions that you can take inside you. A mentor is, I've been there, done it. I can help you not make fuck ups and, or if you do, you know, minimize the damage from those and work through what you're doing.

Yeah, it's good. It's really, really good. Okay, so that's pretty much covered. The three golden takeaways. See from the whole men academy point of view. Now I've been monitoring this journey and I think what you guys are doing is absolutely fantastic. You know, it's great for the man's mind, it's great for the women's mind as well. There's a lot of great insights for both parties at the table. What is the one thing you say, we would say for your experience, the journey has been the biggest takeaway that you've seen so far for your members that are part of the whole academy on the spot. Sorry.

No, it's good because there's a couple of thoughts, but one of them I think maybe is the actual, from the personal side of it, we were. And we are just a couple of guys with full time jobs who are trying to make a difference, which sounds a bit wanky, but that's what we're doing. And it's realizing that, you know, going back to, you don't have to know everything to kind of make a start the journey that we're on. It's still weird for me now when, you know, I might WhatsApp David Gandhi or Charlie King from Tawi or various famous people. And it's become the norm that you've got a hugely expanding network of people who become your friends, maybe business partners, maybe you'll do some kind of JV with them. And it's realizing that, you know, we are just normal guys and we've managed to create something which is making a difference. So for any of those guys that are on the journey with us who are subscribed to our E letter or come to our events, you're like, listen, if there's something that you want to do, just get started with it. And if you're not sure, ask us, because we're not experts, we're making up as you go along. You know, that's the important point is you don't have to do it all on your own. Find someone and they'll help you.

And see, with that JV part, the joint venture part that you were talking about, I think that's critically important because it's very easy, especially during these different times, it's very easy to lock yourself away and not reach out for that support. And I think I'm going to ask you what your three recommendations, two books are in a minute. I think the power of asking correctly is a good place to start because if your wire is big enough, we've read the books. But if your wire is big enough, if you're loving what you're doing, you've got pure purpose set around what you're trying to achieve. That's going to attract people to you and that will attract them to help you as well in the journey, which is vitally important as well. Would you agree with that?

I would. And I'd add to that something you said earlier, which is about authenticity and going back to us, kind of us two joking about the podcast and saying, you know, guess what? Most of us will make various mistakes and sometimes it can, it can make you nervous being on podcasts. And we had a guy who, you know, is a fairly famous chap who's probably been on hundreds of podcasts and at the end of it the other day, he still said to me, oh, do you think my answer was all right there? Or do you know, do you think I should? And I was like, who cares? Like, just, just, you know, doesn't, doesn't matter. Like, if that's what you think. And that's how you said it, that's. That's called real life. And of course, if you're going to do live stuff, there isn't no edit, there isn't editing, there isn't. Oh, actually, let's just stop and do that. If you need to go for a wee, you either wet yourself or off you go. So you deal with it or you keep a little bottle down there.

Yeah, that's good, that's good. And I think as well, stuff like this, you know, putting on podcast shows, whatever you're putting on social media, if there's just the one thing that you can take away that's been of use, and I think that's a great achievement from going through this experience anyway. Certainly the one thing that I've realized on this podcast today with yourself, Anthony, just get it done, you know, don't be afraid to fail. Don't put cast on it and just take action now. And that's been absolutely fantastic.

And tell everybody what you're doing.

Absolutely. You've got to market yourself. What a time to market yourself and what you're doing.

Yeah, I mean, for you, you know, we've got a new podcast, you've got a new podcast. And I remember, I can't remember which what podcast it was I was listening to. But the guy said, imagine a few years ago if someone said, listen, my uncle owns a media company and all you need to do is record yourself and he's going to distribute to the whole world on audio, on visual, on audiobooks, on Instagram, on Twitter, on Facebook, on Streamcast, on, etc, etc, YouTube, what have you. And you'd be like, wow, this is amazing. But it's all free, it's right there in front of you, so just make a start on it.

Yeah, I think making a start is 100%. You're absolutely correct. And yeah, there's a ton of stuff for people to tap into and just make sure that you've got an open mind. I think having that open mind to see what is out there, what can help you and what you choose to focus on is definitely good advice. But I just want to say, before we bring this podcast to a close, Anthony, what three books would you recommend? Your three best books. I like to ask anybody that I interview the same question.

Sorry, that's. No, it's a good question. The first one is called Goals by Brian Tracy.

Yeah. Okay. Love that.

And that. What I love about it is it's firstly, it's so simple.

Yep.

Secondly, it's really difficult because a lot of people don't have a clue what their goals are. And even if you give them a day, they really struggle to think about them. But I think they're very important. And also the amount of people that will say, yeah, I'm going to work on it, but they get about a quarter way through a very simple book and can't be bothered and we'll move on to the next one.

Yeah.

And the importance there is actually saying, you know what? I'm going to work through the book. It might take you months, but work through and work out what your goals are and see what comes up.

That's great, great, great.

The second book would be, I think it's called the Enlightened Gardener by Sid Banks. And that's Sid Syd, I think. And on that, I mean, any book by Sid Banks, to be honest, is.

Is great in his books, actually. But I will be exploring this, so thanks for that golden takeaway.

Yeah. Honestly, it's. There's a message in every book, and if you get it, then you'll get it. The last one actually to go off of, not so much off of personal development, but is Arnold Schwarzenegger's autobiography.

Yep.

And, you know, I just. His story, you know, whether you like him or not, his story is incredible. You know, starting off as a young boy, where he grew up to becoming, you know, not just the movie star, but everything that he's. He's become and governor of California. You could. That. You can't make that stuff up.

You can. I've watched some of his stuff on YouTube. It's phenomenal. His journey, you know, that story is amazing.

And if you, if you read that book, I learned such a lot about. Not just about him, but, you know, it just makes you think. And you know, he. He's a personal development guru, even though he doesn't pretend he is, if that makes sense. And there's some brilliant takeaways from that book.

That's fantastic. Okay, Anthony, I just want to say thank you very much for your time and your contribution on the Recruiters Mindset podcast. It's been an absolute pleasure having you. And I think some of the questions that you've answered and also the information you've shared today will be very helpful to our audience that are out there. So thank you so much for that. Is there anything final you'd like to add before we bring this podcast to a close?

Yeah, thanks for that. That's the important thing, the podcast. It's not just people having a nice chat, which is all very well, but you want people hopefully to take some, some golden nuggets or action points away. What I'd love people to do is just have a look at our Whole Man Academy website or Instagram. And if you are interested in keeping in touch with us on the Whole Man Academy website, you can subscribe to our magical E letter which goes out each week, which all the tickets, invitations, competitions, etc. All get sent out via that E letter.

That's fantastic. I think it's a great, great point there. I'll certainly send this information out to the audience that have listened in and yeah, more than happy to share your amazing journey. And thank you so much for doing this episode of Becoming a Whole Man. I think it's been really interesting, the takeaways that you've provided today and I'm sure the listeners will agree with that. So thank you so much for your time and have a great week.

Thank you, Ross.

Take care.

Thank you. You've been listening to the Recruitment Mindset podcast with Ross Cunningham. Please be sure to subscribe and share and Ross will look forward to serving you in the next episode. Until then, take care and be great. Here's wishing you amazing.