Alternative Investments: Private Mortgages and Real Estate Syndication with Brock Frost

As you continue to evolve in the real estate space and continue to work with institutional investors, is that going to be an opportunity that people could participate in? More so in the future? What does a private mortgage look like from an investor standpoint? What's the sort of expected rate of return? And you talked about repayment and being stuck. What do the terms look like? Good day and welcome to the Wealthy Entrepreneur Podcast. My name is Bob Govreau. I will be your host today. Excited to have you here. And just as a reminder, you're here at this podcast because this is the place where we dissect the elements that contribute to entrepreneurial success, from mindset and leadership to profits and revenue. And this episode is actually got a friend of mine, a fast friend of mine who I connected with maybe a few months back now, very successful guy who's got his hands in a lot of different ways to create alternative investment income. And so we're going to call this episode the alternative ways to grow your wealth, your income and maximize all life has to offer with Brock Frost. So let me introduce Brock before I bring him in. Brock is an entrepreneur. He's got a great history which we're going to get him to share about starting out in real estate, buying multiple units, getting into politics and having financial struggles, moving, changing towns, starting over and building his future and his empire. He's had a lot of success, including owning capita's mortgages. He hosts an annual financial freedom conference which will be taking place in September of 2024 this year. So make sure you check that out as well. He's a real estate investor with more than 200 units. He's actually created a real estate trust for people to invest in projects with him with registered funds, which I'm going to talk about with Brock today. He's a real estate coach, an author of two books, and really, you know, a fantastic guy who definitely has a sense for enjoying life. Without any further ado, I'd love to bring Brock into the show. All right, Brock, super excited to have you here today. Listen, we haven't known each other all that long just yet, but I feel like I've known you for years. You're a pretty genuine dude with a lot of really interesting things on the go. A super high performer, great entrepreneur, and you bring people together in a very incredible way. So welcome. And I would love for you to share maybe a little bit about your background, how you got going, how you got started, and where you're at today.

Yeah, man. So, yeah, I feel the bromance too man, we've known each other for a couple months now, but I feel it. And I remember telling my partner, Brad, who you, you know well, too. It's just like we're going places with Bobby, man, and we're just getting started. So I was fortunate enough to be born in Cornwall, Ontario. You know, one of the best places I've ever traveled to, for sure. No, it's like you. You don't. You. You're always proud of where you came from and had the normal. The normal childhood, and then graduated from university, started traveling, and I. I started. I traveled for five years after graduating from Queensland, I won some money playing blackjack, and I just decided I want to start traveling the world. And that's where kind of, you know, if you look back in your life, you have certain moments that you. You didn't know at the time. But there are now turning points. When I decided to travel, that's kind of what has brought me into who I am today. I've been to over 100 countries now. I travel six months a year. Currently, I'm in Florida talking to you because I'm here for a real estate project. Basically, the travel. After five years of traveling, I ran out of money, and then I came back to Cornwall, and I actually randomly read Donald. Donald Trump's book. And not saying that he's the best author in the world by any means, but the. The concept of the book, the Art of the Deal, was to just get into real estate. And I knew at that time that I just wanted some sort of freedom because I had traveled for so long, and I just realized how good it was to be free. And I said, well, you know, and I was 30 years old at the time. Today I'm 42, and I'm just like, okay, I don't want to have this normal, crappy 9 to 5 existence. I want to be free. Because I learned what being free is like through traveling. So I kind of naturally fell into real estate just from reading this book and knowing, you know, that people who own real estate are wealthy, right? So I just bought a property. Not really having a job back then, the rules were a bit different. So I used a line of credit as a down payment, got a mortgage, bought a property for 138 grand, realized. Then, you know, then I bought another one. Then I bought another one, and quickly I bought 20 properties in three years, really not having a clue what I was doing. But you learn as you go. And then, you know, fast forward to today. I know I got over 250 units mortgage broker. Different mutual fund trust. Like it's, it's crazy when you think back to your own journey. I'm sure you have your own journey as well, Bob.

Yeah, but it's exciting. And so I think, you know, it's interesting. I was reading your website earlier, I'd mentioned this to you and it was interesting to hear. You know, one Cornwall, fairly small town in Ontario, right. Big fish in a small pond, we like to call that. You know, I'm in Peterborough, somewhat similar thing. But one of the interesting things that I saw about your, your background and some of your experience was about the fact that you got into politics. I would love for you to maybe share a little bit about that experience and what that looked like.

Yeah, it was great. So back in, So I was elected in, I'll never forget the date because it was kind of one of those, I like to say that it was the best mistake I've ever made. So on October 27th, I was elected to city council.

What year? Sorry, Brock.

2014. Sorry. So it's coming on my 10th year anniversary and it's crazy looking back because I had earrings and I was broke and it was just like crazy. But the lesson, the reason I got into politics is and I wrote my first book called the Investor Mindset. I published two books too. They're on my website as well. My first book, the Investor Mindset, came because of the mistakes I made, including getting into politics. Now what I realize is I wanted power. I've always been kind of a power driven guy. It is what it is. Whether it's right or wrong, you make your own decision. But I've always been drawn to having influence and power and I thought that for some reason politics was going to be my, my path to that. And then when I real, when I realized when I got elected, it was, there was absolutely no power. I had maybe some status in a small, as you said, big fish, small town, but I had absolutely no power whatsoever. Hated the job on the first day, but, you know, so I realized at that moment, like, you know, you're a big fish in your small pond because by then I had, by the time I had been elected, I had like 20 properties or so. So I was, you know, and I'm a pretty showboaty guy. It's what I've always been. So, you know, people hated on you, man. Right. So they're always pushing for a scandal and whatnot. And you know, when you're, you know, when you're at the top, people want to see you Fail, man. I just. That's the way life. But the lesson I learned from that is pursue things for the right purpose. Don't. I had. I have a chapter in my book called the Power of Ego, and it was about how ego can really push you forward to help you overcome hurdles that you might not normally be able to overcome. But if you pursue things primarily because of ego that are actually the wrong things, that's when you're going to run into some disasters. And then I kind of realized that that's what I was doing in politics. I wanted to be a politician because I wanted the status. I wanted to be that guy at the spotlight. Not realizing that I actually hate politics.

Well, it's a, It's a tough. It's a tough industry. Right. Like, I don't know that it's a hard path to win in. And it's super exciting. And then you left Cornwall and you headed to Ottawa. And it's funny, you know, self awareness is interesting when you talk about being a showboat guy. I remember a few weeks back, I had the opportunity to speak at one of Brock's events, and when I pulled up, there was this beautiful red Ferrari sitting front row. And I thought, oh, man, like, that's pretty great, because I feel like, you know, when it comes to showboat or whatever, people look down upon others who've had success. And I think, you know, when I see you in your Ferrari, I'm like, damn, this guy's made it and has had a certain level of success. Yeah. And. And again, so saw your Ferrari front row when I pulled in, and I thought, you know what? This is the guy. This is a guy who's successful, and that's who successful people want to be around, successful people. So, you know, it's. I think it's, it's not a bad thing to like nice things and to celebrate your success. And I actually admire that. So I, I, you know, it's great. Self identity is great, but also being able to live life and enjoy your success is great, too.

Yeah, to me, like the, the Ferrari thing, yes, I drive a Ferrari, but I'm, I'm like, despite what you might think or people think, I'm not that materialistic. I do. I have things like that because. Allows me to feel pride in the sense that I can afford a Ferrari. And I know when I was, I was thinking back to when I was talking to my nephew who just turned 11, when I was saying, when I was your age, Ethan, I had a poster of a Ferrari on my bedroom, remember Posters back in the day. And I just have. So to me, this Ferrari is fulfilling a childhood dream. Right. Just being able to fly. I remember when I first started traveling, as I saying earlier, When I was 30, I was broke. I was in hostels and taking buses. But now I'm traveling first class in nice hotels. Not because I need to, because I want to. And it allows me to enjoy the, the fruits of my labor and it shows that it, it just allows me to see the progress that I've gone through, through life. But I can be rough, man. I don't have to stay in the nicest places. Like I don't, I don't. It's. I'm flashy only because reminds me of where I came from. I came from a very, very middle class family, if not a bit lower. I had student debts, left college, 50 grand in debt, didn't inherit any money. It's all self taught. So I tell people I drive the Ferrari, I park it outside my event to show people you can do it too. Okay. It's real. I'm living literally proof. That's why I do it.

Yeah, absolutely. Okay. Let's talk about real estate. So you know, it's interesting and talking about 20 units right out of the gates. And if you were coming to me for advice, I probably would have said don't do it at the time. Which is interesting. Right. But you know what, I think it's a little bit dependent on the individual and what they want to accomplish with it. But one of the things that I see a lot of and I'm going to turn this around as well, one thing I see a lot of is everybody thinks that real estate is really the only way you want to get wealthy. Real estate is really the only way to do it. And I'm not a huge real estate investor where I need to be the person who's managing the properties.

Right.

Like I like bigger projects where I'm not going to be the one managing the electrician or the plumber who has to come in. I need something that I can still focus on. My money maker. Right. Which is my professional practice. Let's talk about some of the real estate that you've been investing in and maybe how maybe some people could participate in those real estate investments in the future.

Yeah. So I've done everything under the sun when it comes to real estate. So as I, as I said earlier when I first started buying that first property I bought for 138,000 using a line of credit. The second property I bought was 90 grand. The third one was 135. Right. So I was just buying things because I was broke and I had no other options. When you're broke, you don't have the opportunity to buy a huge business. I mean, there's no money. Right. So I was able to leverage nothing to buy something just to get like the, the, the train started.

It was your business though. That was your business.

It was. And it was the only thing, like I didn't, I didn't know anything back then. Right. I just finished traveling. I just said, okay, there's a lot of wealthy people that own real estate. Let's take a stab at real estate. I almost say that real estate found me out of kind of necessity for being free. And it's just kind of what I know now. And I promote real estate. It's because I've live that journey. But you could find another person similar to me that will promote stocks or crypto or buying businesses. There's nothing wrong with that. It's just that real estate has been my path.

Yep. And, and now, you know, and the real estate you're into now is the part that excites me. Right. It's the part in being part of a real estate investment maybe versus being the only owner in a real estate investment. You are in Florida right now on looking at a real estate investment, maybe talk about what that opportunity looks like and then what is maybe available working with you in the future as well.

Yeah. So as you said, like the projects I'm doing now are bigger scale and it's just kind of been the natural progression. You buy a rundown property, then you might buy a duplex, and that's exciting. Then you get your first four plaques, then you do a flip and then you build a house. And then eventually you just kind of graduate into what I like to call an institutional investor. So right now I'm in Tampa Bay. We are not looking at. We actually closed on a 136 unit 7 building complex in St. Petersburg that was a price tag of 17 million U.S. about 23 million Canadian with about 100 investors. This is big time stuff. Right. And this is not something that you can do on your first deal. You don't have the experience, you don't know what you're doing, you don't have the capital. But yeah, this type of stuff excites me like it would you, where it's just, you're dealing with just bigger players, more exciting challenges, bigger numbers. And yeah, this was just the natural progression. So what I do now for Investors is just because I have a lot of experience like real estate. I know well, when people come to me like what should I invest in? I'm like, I generally go towards private lending and real estate is because what I know, I don't have experience to tell you how to buy a restaurant. I don't still know it might be a good deal. I don't stop my thing. Right. So I do a lot of deals now with investors where they can invest alongside me in one of the projects I put together. I manage, I scope the deal, analyze the deal, vet the deal, put together all the legal structure, get the financing in place where people that look yourself, you want to invest in a big project, but you don't really know what you're doing, you don't have the time to do it, you don't want to manage it. You can just invest and are essentially buying shares of a larger project.

Yeah. Which is really exciting. And is that something, you know, as you continue to evolve in the real estate space and continue to work with institutional investors, is that going to be an opportunity that people could participate in more so in the future?

100%, like, this is where I'm going. It's very clear on where I'm going with this career. So it's just going to be bigger and better projects. To date, I think this is my ninth big project. So over the last three years, we just started putting together projects where I'm raising capital, I'm putting my own capital, but also raising capital and I'm managing the project. So this is our ninth big project. I probably have invested with over a hundred investors. Never lost money for anybody ever. And it's just a matter of it's just going to be larger projects as we increase. So, yeah, I mean, anybody listening that wants to invest in real estate doesn't know how to. I mean, definitely we always have projects on the go. Right now we have two more in Edmonton. We're looking at. Well, not even looking at. There's accepted offers. We've applied for financing. We're raising capital on those. Yeah, yeah.

Exciting. And we'll make sure that everybody has access to your contact info and whatnot after so that they can check into that. Because, you know, I'm a, I'm a huge advocate for people to invest in real estate in this way. Yeah, right. Especially for my entrepreneurial clients who have a day job, it's like, yeah, real estate is good. We can build a lot of wealth in real estate. Brock has done it. I've had a lot of success in real estate as well. But I don't want to be the person who's managing the property. And I think these are opportunities for business owners to get in, realize the same sort of outcome, but work with professional real estate investors like Brock and some of his colleagues that he's working with as well. Okay, Real estate. Love that. Let's talk about private mortgages. So the event that we. That I was at in Gatineau a month ago was predominantly around your private mortgage investors. Now, interesting. I've. I've worked with private mortgages for 10 years. The number of people that were at your event was impressive. And your sharing and knowledge of how you and your team put together these deals was certainly something that gives great confidence to investors. So, you know, that's a little bit of my endorsement to, to how you put together these deals. But can you share with. With the listeners of, you know, what a private mortgage is, how these sorts of things come together? What's a typical rate of return? Like, let's, let's have an open chat about what private mortgages look like.

Yeah, sure. So my day job, if you want to see that, is that I'm a mortgage broker, right? So I've been a mortgage broker for about eight years. And for any mortgage broker out there, anybody's ever gone to a traditional bank for financing, the process is excruciating, it's inefficient. And just because there's so many rules and regulations in Canada when it comes to mortgage financing, some of them are good, some of them are bad. Like, they're generally to protect the integrity of the industry, which I support as an investor. But from a mortgage standpoint, there's just a lot of borrowers that fall through the cracks of all the regulation and they don't qualify.

And let me just say, Brock, that's probably a lot of these listeners, right? And the reason they fall through is that they've maybe got good income within a business, but not showing personally, maybe have additional levels of leverage. And I know I've got a lot of leverage in my life, which I appreciate. But that's where, like business owners, this is where you guys fall in and you have challenges getting these mortgages. And this is what Brock is talking about. So back to user.

It's excruciating. So. So the private industry arose because of the need because there is. There was too many people falling through the cracks. We're not talking about the odd person here, that we're talking 15% of mortgages in Canada are Private. That's a trillion dollar industry. That's a staggering number, right? It's staggering. Not a small number. It's staggering. So it arose because of necessity. So what I do is when I, because people message me all day for money, just generally for, for mortgages or whatever, if they don't qualify for traditional financing. So I vet them from a mortgage, Traditional mortgage standpoint. If they don't, then I look at it from a common sense, private approach. And what I mean by that is most people who've never invested in private mortgages, their initial thought is, oh my God, private mortgages are risky. They're never going to pay you back. No, there's a difference between. I don't look for people that don't pay their bills. I look for good borrowers who don't qualify. I don't look for bad borrowers who don't qualify. There is a fundamental difference. Okay, so when I look at a file, I say, okay, is this person needing private money because of a rule, a regulation, or are they just a bad borrower? If they're a bad borrower, I don't lend the money. I lend money to, to good borrowers that don't qualify. And my company's been capita. So I'll send you, you guys can see a link later. It's on my website. My company has been in business for over five years. We have never, ever, ever, ever lost a cent, ever on any deals. Now the reason I give credit to that, because me being a mortgage broker, I can, I can truly understand if a file is high risk or simply doesn't qualify. And that's my job. So when my investors invest with me, they trust that I am doing my due diligence. Where you have lots of smart people, Bob, you're a smart person. You probably wouldn't know how to vet a private mortgage. That's not your business. That's my business. Right. So I wouldn't trust you to vet a private mortgage. You're not a private mortgage administrator. I am. So my investors who invest in private mortgages do so because they know that I vet them. They know how I vet them.

Absolutely. And so what does a private mortgage look like from an investor standpoint? What's the sort of expected rate of return? And you talked about, you know, repayment and being stuck. What do the terms look like? Security, obviously, you know, we can imagine that it's the property. But what do those things look like from an investor standpoint?

Yeah, so they are mortgages. So they are secured and people don't realize, most people don't realize that a secured lender, whether it's you personally or TD bank, you have every true right to and privilege under the Mortgage act to protect your investment. Right. So you are a secured lender registered on title. So our average return right now is about 15%. So predominantly we do second mortgages, but we do also do first. I send out a deal to our investors today at 12.99% on a first mortgage. Our average return is about 15%. And generally what that, you know, that's a 15% annual rate. So you know most of, most of the deals to pay monthly returns. Let's just say for the sake of math and for the viewers here, if you've never done it, you, I lend you 100 grand at 12% with monthly payments, you would pay me $1,000 per month for 12 months and then $100,000 at the end of the year comes back to me. That's generally how it works. Right. And then we've, my company, my team and I facilitate the whole process, all the paperwork, the loan commitments, coordinate with the lawyers, get the appraisals, we vet the, we vet the documents, vet the file, all of that stuff where the investor literally just sends the money to the lawyer and has their, their name registered on title for the loan. Yeah, we make it, we make it seamless for our investors. It's extremely, extremely passive invested investment.

At your event at the end you maybe threw in your confidence level and your knowledge and experience in your space and the fact that you never had a mortgage. Ever had an issue with a mortgage or collecting the money or anything like that. At the end you kind of threw in an extra. Because I feel this way, I'm going to throw in this extra clause. I don't know if this is a public thing or if this was just a one time only.

Oh, the guarantee.

Yeah, all the guarantee.

Yeah. So I look at, I said we look at, from investors because I'm always, I always protect my investors. I always look at how can I get more investors into my business. That's a personal biased reason. Right. I want to grow my company. How do you grow a private mortgage company? Well, you bring more borrowers and you bring more investors. From the investment standpoint, the first thing they want to know is, is. Or the first, the only, the biggest thing they're afraid of is losing their money. The second thing is they want to get a return on their money, but their biggest fear is losing their money. So because my track record is 100% and I fully believe in my own vetting process. And I trust I have, I would say, close to a million dollars of my own money lent out in private mortgage because I believe in the product, I believe in the, in the industry, I believe in my, in my process. So to alleviate any concerns over default, I offer a guarantee of my own loans where I will personally guarantee any loan and take 4% of the take back into our company. So, for example, let's just say there was a deal, Bob, it was 15%. I'll guarantee it. But you're getting 11 and I'm taking four. So an investor says like, okay, well, I'm good with 11 with no stress. Great. For me, it's great. I get another investor and I make another 4%. To me, it doesn't matter because I'm fully confident in my own vetting process.

Yeah. And I love that. Okay, Private mortgages check. Let's talk a little bit about this mutual fund trust. You know, it's, it's a very interesting setup. It's not something that is available at any sort of regular spot, I would say, probably because the investment to get the setup done is quite substantial and most people wouldn't be willing to invest. You were talk to me about what a mutual fund trust is and what would the benefits be to your, to your clients or your investors.

Yeah, so if we look at just what it is first, also a trust, you know, for, for just definition purposes, is kind of an entity that holds assets or something for the benefit of others. Right. So the mutual fund trust, the trust being held for, for other beneficiaries. Mutual fund being a group or of mutual investors. Right. So that's what it is. So. And the reason this came about is, as I said earlier, I've done about nine big projects now. The first, but I've only done one through the mutual fund trust because we, we just established it last year. And the reason we had decided to establish it is because technically when you're raising capital and you're dealing with investors on a large scale, you are kind of trading in securities. Right. You're people are entrusting you with their money, and then they're, you're going out there and using their money. There is, and there's a lot of legislation around that with security law, and for good reason. It protects the public. Right. So not any Joe Blow can just take money and invest it and squander it away because there's a lot of scams out there. Right. So I created the mutual fund trust just like I did the guarantee for the private mortgages to alleviate any concern for investors. I did a mutual fund trust to add another layer of credibility and security for my investors in the sense that A, every project we do has to be vetted through our securities lawyer. Now also every investor needs to be vetted from our securities dealer. So it just really, really shows our investors that A, we're very organized and serious, but B, we're doing this to protect you and to give you extra confidence.

Right.

And is really staying on top of, of, of compliance also too with the mutual fund. Another added benefit from a logistical standpoint is it allows investors to register also their registered funds, not just cash, but their RSPs, their TFSAs, their LIRAs, which are primarily held in mutual fund trusts at banks earning, you know, your 4 or 5% people can now invest those funds into our projects and generate all the returns still under the same registered umbrella.

And that's what I was kind of hoping you were going to bring up.

Oh, I never forget to say that.

But yeah, no, so, and guys, business owners, right, we're always thinking of how we can one, you know, utilize our registered funds. I'm not a huge advocate for RSPs, you know, because I, I just don't like the way that the RSP structure works where we get a deduction now and tax later when we pull it in. However, you know, for tax free savings accounts, if we're looking at having funds in there and you're going, hey Brock, I want to invest in this Tampa Bay real estate project that you've got going on underneath your mutual fund trust. You can take your registered money, put it into that investment, whatever that investment is at the time, and you don't pay tax on the income in your registered tax free savings account. Huge benefit here, guys, especially when we're, we're talking about access to alternative investments, right? Non, non alternative investments, meaning, you know, mutual funds, shares, that sort of GICs, that sort of thing. Alternatives being, you know, real estate funds, private mortgages, stuff like that. Using registered funds. What an incredible way to earn income and not pay tax on it.

Yeah, it's good from, it's, it's a win, win for everybody. Like for us it is opens us up to more capital because a lot of Canadians don't have savings and some, a lot of them that do are just generally registered. So it opens us up to a huge new pool of capital. And also I tell clients, I'm like, look, if you have an RSP, you might as well make 15% on it, whether it's pre tax or post tax, it's 15%. So it really and you know, so the whole thing is designed around, I mean look at, I'm a self serving entrepreneur so obviously I'm looking at it from myself perspective. But by caring about the clients, by protecting your investors, by being transparent, all of that just makes the whole process, including my own bottom line, better.

Yep. And this is just a vehicle where people can earn it tax free versus not. So you've just invested in creating another opportunity for people to make more after tax money. And I think it's great we do the same thing.

Sorry, I sort of. One last thing on the private mortgage side too. We can invest those private funds. Right. So it's not just with the real estate syndications, it's private mortgages as well.

Yeah, yeah. Which is, which is fantastic. And obviously from an, from a tax standpoint, interest is the most painful of all of the incomes or investment incomes. However, if it's inside your tfsa, like if you're looking to shift things around, that's a great thing to have in your TFSA. So for, for those of you who are throwing 100 grand into to any of these projects or on a private mortgage or anything like that, why wouldn't you want that $15,000 of income to be in your TFSA, not pay tax on it? Because that would cost you typically $7,500 in tax at the end of the year. So inside here you have zero of that tax. You can pull the money back out and you're good. So I actually commend you Brock, for setting that up for people because I think a lot of people wouldn't do that. And they just say, well, if you want access to, you're going to have to pay tax and whatnot. We're not going to go through the extra investment of getting this set up. So I appreciate that you've done that.

Yeah, it's expensive. On that note, to a mutual fund trust set up for. I've had people call me about it. It's about 300k to get set up. It's a very, very complex legal structure. I think I have about seven or eight corps per project that are set up. So it's a very, very legislative and bureaucratic. It's very heavy and it's very expensive. Right. But I just look at it from, you know, a long term gain of adding credibility, transparency, protection by investors and allowing me to raise more capital. It is essentially the cost of doing business. But it's certainly not for everybody because you have to have liquidity and it's very complicated.

And, and from your perspective too, right? And we're always looking at this as well to say how do we differentiate and offer something that someone else isn't? And I think there's a huge value add for anyone who would be looking to work with you. Let's talk about your coaching programs because the first time I heard about your coaching programs was when you were talking about some of your investors that were going through the coaching programs at your last event. So how are you coaching people? What do those programs look like? And you know, what particular focus do those coaching programs have?

Yeah, so the coaching program kind of just, it came about from just people messaging me saying coach me. Right? It's like, you know, everybody and their dog is now a coach. But people, people just saw that I was doing with real estate and mortgages and everything and they're just saying coach me. And it took me a while to just figure out kind of a system because you can have a lot of knowledge in your head, but how to relay it to a client in a systematic format is a different thing altogether. Right now my sweet spot now is it's basically one on one life and business coaching. So what I found about most coaching programs, I use the word coaching loosely, most programs out there are, they're generic and they're kind of a one solution for everybody. And I just don't find that applies. So what I do now is kind of, it's literally one on one customized coaching. So I meet with clients one on one and I dive into everything about them, not just money. Because there's a lot more to me than, I'm a big lifestyle guy. Money is just a tool that I use to, to live well. But I dive into their, their family, their, their money, their business, their net worth, their, their job history, their passions, their goals, taxes, everything. And then I put together customized implementation plan on what I do is I, I approach it from a, if I was them knowing what I know, what would I do immediately? And so every solution is completely customized. There's no generic solutions. Not one of my students has ever had a generic plan. And also too, I just launched, just launched. And I mean just, just, just. July 17th is my first I called the Frost financial coaching community. So we're going to be doing bi weekly meetings with myself and all of my students from across everywhere. We're going to be meeting by zoom every second Wednesday and we're going to be discussing everything about, you know, Current deals, I'm on different market tips, tax stuff. But it's also going to be an opportunity for my coaching students to highlight any of their successes, their projects, certain mindsets that are. That they're struggling with all of that stuff. So I'm really just kind of honing on, getting the community going. And I probably. I have about over just over a hundred students now. So it's. It's growing. It's growing rapidly just because people are seeing what I'm doing on a personal level, that I travel six months a year, and I'm buying all these buildings, and I'm living the dream, and I'm driving Ferraris, and I live in a mansion, and all these things that are real, not just charades, and they're like, well, I'm doing something wrong. Teach me basically right. And I find it very good. You know, I know you asked me previously about, you know, who do you serve? And I love the word serve because. And I had a. I had a session two days ago with one of my students, and I told him. I said, look at, man. Like, I don't. I don't need your $1300 or whatever you paid me. I said, I do this because this fulfills my dharma. This is my purpose in life, to give back and to help people. And he was emotional because this guy's been spinning his tires for eight years, never getting ahead, doesn't know what he's doing. And. And some of the stuff I was teaching him, you could see it really resonated with him. That motivates me. That fires me up. I don't need your 1300 bucks. I. I'm good. Okay. But seeing a change alive in somebody's face from. Because what I'm saying, from living proof, that motivates me, man.

Yeah, no doubt.

Yeah. Yeah. That's real stuff, man.

So on that sort of topic, I know you've got a big event that you put on in the fall. Can you talk a little bit about that? Because I think all the things that you just talked about are really, you know, again, alternative ways to invest money to earn passive investment income or actively invest in real estate as active income as well. So there's a couple of different angles there. I think people can learn a lot about that and those alternative sort of investments at your event. Can you share a little bit of the details about what's going to happen in the fall?

Yeah. So September 8th, financial freedom conference in Ottawa. Last year, I had our first conference under the same name. And the reason it came about Is like just through coaching and dealing with my mortgage clients and my private clients and my investors. I'm just like, people don't know how to live. I just became boggled down by not just from a money standpoint. People always default back to I need more money to be happy. And that's never really the case. I'm kind of like, what are people doing wrong? Right. Well, I mean, why does nobody. Like I look at, I travel six months a year, I work four hours a day, I study languages, I drive a Ferrari of a boat motorcycle. I do what I want all the time. And me living really, really well doesn't prevent me from making really, really good money. So people always think that. I think there's a mindset of you have to have one or the other. You can't live well and make money. But I'm living proof that you could do well. So the conference is designed about around freedom, using money as a tool, but having kind of the right mindset. People if you make more money and you don't know how to use money, you don't how to use your time, you're not going to be free. You might have more money, but you're not going to be free. So my speech this year is going to be, it's called master your clock. And it's about the concept of, you know, Bob, you get 24 hours a day, so do I, so does Tony Robbins, so does the King of England, so does Ed Sheeran. Right. So does Bezos. Everybody gets 24 hours a day. Same 24 hours. So why are some people just so successful when others just cannot seem to figure anything out? It's because of what we do in those 24 hours. And I'm going to literally go through my calendar and show people what I do to live well, how I manage those 24 hours, what does. What gets in my calendar and what doesn't even come close? So. Because how can I manage my businesses? I have five businesses, 200 and something units. How do I manage all this when I work four hours a day while traveling the world? There has to be an art to it, right?

Oh, there sure as hell is.

Exactly. So it's about, it's financial freedom. So my speakers and I know you'll be there.

You'll be.

It's really. I, I didn't. This is not a technical conference. There is a time and place for technical conferences. This is how you put together a syndication. This is private more like my event in, in Gatineau from private more. That was a Bit more technical. This is a more broad based understanding time and freedom from a broad perspective. Because like I said, money will not make you free if you don't know what to do with it.

Absolutely.

It's going to be good. So last year we had 170 people show up. It was my first kick at this kind of this theme conference. This year we're probably going to have double tickets are available at Financial FreedomConference CA and just a really good event just full of just all the people there just want to be better off in all aspects. Right. So that's the beauty of having these events. You're just surrounded by optimism and positivity.

Absolutely. And we will make sure that that link is, is tagged in here as well. And so let's, and thank you for that. Let's talk about the last piece before I get your take on one other thing. You're a mortgage broker. That's your day job. What do interest rates look like? So we're, we're looking at this being July, end of July, August 2024 when this episode comes out. What do interest rates look like now? Where are they headed? You know, what should people be considering from a more mortgagee perspective? Looking at it from should I be locking in fixed? Should I be going variable? Should it be two years? Should I be one year? What does that look like?

That's a lot of questions. And this is the, this now these are the questions we get as a mortgage broker every day.

I, I know that's, I was just laying them all out there. I know these are the ones you get.

So I'll say this, and it was interesting that today I wrote an, an article, I'm going to post it tomorrow called the 10 Things that Matter More than Interest Rates. Okay. Because here's the thing with, with more I look at all the investments, all the real estate I bought in my career, hundreds and hundreds of units. I could not tell you what any of those interest rates were ever. But I could tell you the address, I could tell you about the type of project, I'd tell you how much I made, who was involved, all that stuff. And the premise is interest rates are not the most important thing, but the public thinks they are because they don't have enough knowledge. Right. They think that interest rates are the only thing that you need to consider when buying properties and it's just not the case. Right. There's a lot of things that matter more. Like are you choosing the right lender to get ahead financially? Are you choosing the right product that's meant for you. Are there hidden fees? Like, you know, there's a lower rate, but there's hidden fees. Right. There's just so many other factors. In my report that I just wrote, I, I say my, my opening line is when, when is cheap ever better? Okay, so. Right, right.

Karl. Hey, listen, I agree.

So, so the problem I have, I have this conversation because people that I can say this when I deal with investors, investors with like 10 or more properties, rates are never really the conversation. It's all about my relationship with them as a broker. Can I get them to the next level. Tax strategies, dealing relationships with the lenders, first time buyers or the people that have one property. Yesterday I had a client all over me, harassing me, stressed to the max, about 10, 1.1% off a lower remit. They're just not looking at the right thing. Now in their defense, they don't know what they don't know. Right, right. But interest rates in the long thing, they're just not, it's not the right conversation to have. Now having said that, I'll answer your question directly.

Thank you.

Yes. Okay. Having said, I have to say that though because every time someone, it's like, it's, I use this, Bob. It's like, hey, imagine you're, you're an accountant and you're a very good one. Hey man, how much are you going to charge me for that core? Right. Instantly they're devaluing you. Or they're all H and R block charges me half that. Right. It instantly says that you're being treated like any other person that's an accountant. That's just not right. Or you go into a restaurant, hey, what's your cheapest appetizer? You go into a clothing store. Can I get the cheapest jacket? Can I get the cheapest car? Can I get the cheapest house? It's the wrong question. So when people ask me, I try to educate them on, on what's really important. Now having said that, when all factors are equal, then it does come down to price. But make sure all factors are considered.

Agreed.

Okay. Now the trend right now if I can just see, because there's no magic ball, people always say, should I lock five, what are they going to rates be in three years? Nobody knows. Okay. I deal with all the major lenders. If I asked the vice president of each major bank what they thought, they would all give a different answer. Okay? So the trend right now is most people are still choosing five year fixed. Okay. Because the five year fixed is a pretty it's reasonable right now. Right. Insured rates are in the mid to fours on a mid to high fours which is kind of below the last 40 year average. We're seeing most of that. We're seeing now we're also starting to see some shorter term fixed because people are rolling the dice with the anticipation that rates are going to drop in the next year. There is an argument to that as well. People are still not trending towards variable. I haven't done a variable mortgage in I would say a couple of years and maybe the odd one here and there because you have really, you know, really savvy investors that just roll the dice statistically. Saying 50 years has proven that variables. But most people are 99% are choosing fixed and most of them are still choosing five. Now where should they go? That is a question of, of. Of risk. It's a question of qualification. So first, first things I look at is do you have a choice? Right. A lot of people get mortgages based on their maximum qualification, right. So if the five year is 4.7 but a three year is 5.2, they might not qualify at 5.2 but they qualify at 4.7. That's how tight the file is. So they have to go five year. So I look at qualification. Then I also look at risk tolerance. Right. I tell people like look, there is no magic ball. But if you're the type of person that's going to stress out, lose sleep over, maybe the rates will go up or go down. Just lock it in and forget about it. Yeah, right.

And, and change your amortization period to, to fit your payments. Is that your thought as well?

You mean to, to, to. To increase cash flow or decrease expenses? Yeah, sometimes depending on the situation. I'm not a big fan of kicking expenses down the road. If someone is very, very poor with money, which a lot of people are re. Amortizing just to allow them to kick, kick more debt down the road. No, but sometimes it makes sense from a strategic standpoint. If you're trying to buy an investment property that helps you qualify or etc. Etc. So that works but it's really a case by case. Some people, you know, if you're some people you just might want to lock it in because they don't have the time or energy to just deal with the process. Getting a mortgage is complicated. It's exhausting. There's a thousand documents. So some people like look at, I'm going to go five years because I don't want to do this every year, right. So it's really, really case by case. So I look at every. Or is it the right product? I did one today for a guy that was retired, has his home paid off, but we did a variable rate because he wanted a home equity line of credit to invest in some private mortgage. That product made sense for him. Right, because you know, you can lend it out, then pay off the line of credit, etc. So he. Locks are not fixed product for that, for. For him. For him, it made sense of variable home equity line of credit. You got to look at to what. What is the best product for the client?

Yeah, absolutely. And last question for you, Brock, before we depart.

I'm having fun, man. You keep going. I know it's good.

This one, this is probably for me, this is the biggest piece, right. Thinking of the audience. We're dealing with small business owners, entrepreneurs, maybe people who have those people in their lives and they're trying to understand them a little bit better. Always looking for the insights. And I definitely appreciate everything that you've brought. Thinking of different ways that people can use the cash that they've created to make more money, maybe even enjoy life a little bit more. From the Brock Frost perspective. On that note, can you give me one piece of advice that you would give someone who's looking to accelerate their wealth accumulation journey?

Yes, if you want just one piece.

I just want one.

The best one is get in the right rooms. Okay. Now, you know, that's kind of a cliche saying, you know, but it really, really works. And I tell people, like, look, it. I just call results all the time. You know, I'm dealing with a new person trying to tell them the benefits of being an investor, all that stuff. They're like, oh, well, my dad thinks this is a bad idea. Your dad is broke. Right. So people, I. I don't know where the. It became just common in our, in our culture. Does this listen to the wrong people? Right. We follow people on social media that have no idea what they're doing. They're wannabes, they're fakes, they're posers. We listen to our family, who we love and trust, but they don't know what they're talking about. Right. I don't talk business or investment with my parents. They don't do it. I talk to them about love and relationships and travel. I don't go to them for investment advice. They don't invest. Why would I? Makes no sense. So people need to. If you want to be like, for your example, you're like, you are the Best I've seen in your realm, not just from a tax perspective, but from running a accounting firm. Therefore, if there wasn't a new accountant out there that wanted to do what you were doing or wanted to build a big practice and expand, well, maybe you should talk to Bob. Maybe don't talk to your mother about it. There are a lot of people out there that want to help you. Right? But there's a lot of people out there that are going to drag your goals down because they don't do it themselves. And I see that so often where people just. I have one coaching student, one of my first coaching students. She's finally doing her first deal with me. Took me three years for her to basically get new friends because she, I would coach her, she would go home, her mom was miserable, broke, saying, this is stupid. You're going to lose your money. Her boyfriend hated the fact that she was trying to better herself. Friends don't do anything. It's like, how do you expect to grow if you're surrounded by that? Right? Like, I love when I go out in some, like, you know, I'm in Florida now and I went to this office yesterday with this father and son that are putting together 900 unit projects. They know way more than me. And I was fired up because I can learn from them. That's who I want to be. So obviously I'm going to reach out to them. I just don't understand why people ask people for advice that have nothing to do with the subject matter. And I'll never understand that.

Absolutely. No. And great insights too because, you know, I think while there's. What's. The old saying is if you're the smartest person in the room, you're in the wrong room. You and I connected for sure in rooms where we were not the smartest people in the room, although we could hold our own. But, but always looking for the people who are smarter than us to learn from them, to connect with the people that they know and build our network so we can continue to, to accelerate our learning, our knowledge and our community. And I, you know, I think Brock, that is fantastic, fantastic advice. Let me ask you this. I know we've got your website. We're going to plug that in here. Where else can people get a hold of you?

Yeah. So best thing is BrockFrost.com personal website for the private mortgages is Capitas.ca Cap I T I S Financial Freedom Conference CA for the. The event out in September or honestly hit me up on. On Facebook or Instagram you can find me. They're very quick to respond or just a standard old, good old fashioned text message. 613-316-8740 yeah, I just love chat with people. So if you've got any questions about anything. I do mortgages, private mortgages, investing in real estate, mutual fund trust mindset, coaching conferences. Hit me up for taxes. I'll probably relay it back to Bobby here even though I do know quite a bit of taxes. But I will say, Bob, you know more.

Well, I gotta be good at something, right?

Brock, you can't just be. It's very difficult to be good looking and smart, buddy, but you pulled it off somehow.

Well Brock, thank you for joining us for sharing your insights and for everybody who's listening for sure, this has been a way to maybe open your mind of all other things that are available outside of traditional income sources. Looking at maybe instead of buying your, your single household rental, maybe looking at investing in larger projects. How you can do that. Definitely check out Brock's information if you're able to join. And I'm going to say us in Ottawa in September. I'll be there as well. For sure. It'll be nothing but a great event. So guys, this has been the Wealthy Entrepreneur podcast. I'm your host Bob Govreau. It has been a pleasure to have you here today. Make sure that you comment like share any of this information with people who you think could benefit. We are on a mission to empower entrepreneurs with the right financial information they need to make informed decisions and ultimately so we can change the world together. So please do that. Share it out, leave a comment, make sure you follow because if you like this, we're going to have more content coming out next week. This is our second year doing the podcast. We're going to keep going. Our audience is growing and we're so thrilled about that. Brock, thanks again for joining us and for everybody else, have a fantastic day.

Thanks Bob. We'll be in touch buddy. Take care.