Developing Confident Leaders: Coaching Strategies for CEOs, Executives, and Entrepreneurs

The areas that I find that people struggle with and it leads into other areas like imposter syndrome. Understanding the importance of trust, communication and leading in the moment and how those all really tie together, emotional intelligence really is that secret sauce. It's what connects you to someone else in a way that it doesn't feel like work all the time. But the reason why I say that is the better you can be about understanding people and the more you can apply emotional intelligence is it's easier for you to get your needs met. They're eager for connection. That's one of the things that we're still in a very digital age. There's a lot of studies that are coming out that at the tail end of Gen Z and Gen Alpha, they want to get away from devices, they want to get away from not having human connection. They're craving that human connection. The framework that I teach leaders on how to deal with imposter syndrome, which is name It, Tame it and reframe it.

Good day, everybody and welcome to the Wealthy Entrepreneur Podcast. I am your host, Bob Goverall. It is a pleasure to have you with us on this episode. And you know what? I have a special guest today who I think is going to be really going to bring some really great insights to you. And all of what we're going to talk about today is about leadership and your leadership skills and how we as CEOs and leaders of organizations and entrepreneurs help develop our leadership skills to get us to the next level, which brings our company to the next level. I can't over emphasize the importance of leadership skills for you and for me. And this is commitment that I have to myself and to my team that I will continue to become the best leader possible for them. And it's, it's something that is so important as we continue to drive meaningful businesses going forward. Before I get any deeper, I just want to remind you that this is the Wealthy Entrepreneur podcast. This is the place where we dissect the elements that contribute to entrepreneurial success from mindset and leadership. Again, the primary focus today to profits and revenue. This episode is going to be titled Reclaiming Confidence, Leadership Imposter Syndrome and the Winning Edge with my special guest today, who's going to be John Little. John's work centers around developing emotionally intelligent leaders, helping high performers navigate uncertainty and and guiding business owners through mindset shifts that unlock long term success. With his certifications in disc, Myers Briggs and Fundamental Interpersonal Relationship Orientation, John has helped hundreds of professionals step into executive roles with clarity, purpose and confidence. As you hear this interview today we're going to talk a little bit about what it means to move from being a really good producer to, to being a manager who also is responsible for people, the skills that are necessary there. And to move from being a manager into a strategic leader, a CEO, an entrepreneurial leader. So important. And this discussion today is going to be so valuable for everybody. So without any further ado, I'm excited to bring in John, who is the founder and CEO of Winners Edge Coaching. John Little, everybody. John, how are you?

I'm awesome, Bob, how are you?

I'm doing great, although I'm in a different climate today than you probably are. We were just chatting about different regions and I've got a rainy cloudy day and you're probably in the sunshine today, aren't you?

I'm, I'm not gonna brag, but I'm also not gonna disagree with you.

That's okay, you can brag. I'm envious of the Florida weather. It's, you know, lots of vitamin D and I think you'll see lots of Canadians down there just trying to do the same thing. But it's a pleasure to have you here today, John, and what I want to do, and it sounds like you have a pretty incredible story which I haven't even had the pleasure of hearing from you yet. So I'm excited about this. But can you take us through sort of how your career started and how you got to where you are today?

Yeah, absolutely. And thank you so much for the opportunity to chat with you and your audience. You know, I always describe my journey as a career jungle gym, so certainly has not been a linear path. So coming out of college I had a lifelong passion, and still do, for sports. And so being a sports fan and playing sports growing up, I knew early on that I was not going to be a professional athlete, but I still wanted to stay close to the world. And so I started my first 10, 10 years of my career out of college in sports television. So I worked in sports production for a major network here in the US and it was great. I absolutely loved the time working there. But after 10 years of getting off at 3 o' clock in the morning on the east coast, waiting for the Blue Jays and the Angels to finish a 13 inning game in July, I kind of had enough of that and so I pivoted and went into a more traditional line of business. So I ended up in the banking industry and kind of throughout the work, throughout the time that I was working in banking and even when I was Working in television leadership was always a common thread. So I, you know, led teams in television production. I led teams. When I started working at the bank, I really started to learn more about learning and development as a part of the corporate structure. So I spent a good bit of time there before branching out on my own. And a big part of what I did was leadership development and really focusing on learning about EQ and learning about people and learning about how those skills are really transferable across any industry. And so for the past few years, I've had the winners edge coaching and work, you know, closely with, with leaders at kind of all levels of organization from C suite to middle, middle management, middle leadership roles to strengthen the confidence and the focus of the leaders that are in those roles.

I love that. And some of my listeners would know I share pretty openly some of my journey. And 2022 was one of those years for me where I had to take a reflection of who I was and where I wanted to get myself to as a leader. And I would say that was a really challenging eight months of trying to figure out how I get myself to the next level. And so, guys, leadership for you as a CEO, you know, for those that are listening, that are in that CEO role, leadership and understanding that journey yourself is so important and we need to continue to evolve. And you know, one of the messages that I got from one of my mentors is you need to become the leader they need before they need you to be there and, you know, super powerful that we need to focus on ourselves if we want to take people with us. So, John, I can appreciate that, that journey and the focus on leadership, it's so important to me and always front and center and even on my own personal journey. Can you share a little bit? I know you talk about leadership that moves people forward, and a few areas that we maybe want to dive into is some of the biggest gaps that you feel are in leadership today. What does that look like to you?

You know, the, the areas that I really find that people struggle with, and it bleeds into other areas that I work on, you know, like imposter syndrome, which I'm sure we're going to talk about, you know, understanding the importance of trust, communication and leading in the moment and how those all really tie together. Right. So for, for trust, I find that to be the most foundational piece of any leader's skill set. The better that you can be about not only understanding how to build trust transactionally, but from a transformational standpoint. How do you build trust? What's important to you when, when you're building trust, when you're looking to, to meet someone and you're looking to, you know, learn how to trust them, what's important to you, and then also what's important to them. And here's something that I learned along the way, that there's really two ways that people build trust. They either build trust through likability or through credibility. And so if I need to like you first, then I want to build a relationship. If I need to see, you know, that you're credible first, then I need to see evidence of your work over time and, and understanding that that's how people build trust. When you start to recognize that, it's like, oh, now I can adjust and adapt to what people need in order for that trust foundation to be built, because without it, it's nearly impossible to be an effective leader. And then from that trust foundation, then you learn how to communicate with people in the way that they need to be communicated with in the moment and leading in the moment. You know, how to calibrate what leadership you need to be applying to the different times, the people, people's lives, people's situations, what work situations, projects, whatever. It is, the more attuned you are to yourself, the more attuned you are to others. It makes the leadership piece a lot easier. And I tell leaders all the time.

I can't help you sell more widgets. I can't really. Excel is my kryptonite. So I can't tell you how to make your spreadsheets look better. But I'm an expert at people, and I know that if we get the people right, then the results are going.

To be there a hundred percent. And you know what? The majority of our business and our future is people. And, you know, I had this opportunity to work with the local university. They brought me in as the CEO in residence a couple of years ago or maybe last year. And so I had this opportunity to spend a lot of time with the new generation coming out, right, like the next generation of leaders. And everything that you just said is like, multiplied by five times. With them coming out of school, the importance of trust for them is unbelievable. You know, there's, there's other factors. They, you know, they want a little bit more flexibility in life. Their priorities are maybe different than, you know, my parents said, put your head down and work hard and everything will be fine. You know, it's different. That's not, not how they've grown up. But, but the idea of trust is so important, right? Now and, and you can tell them that they can trust you, but you need to demonstrate it. Right? They need to live it and experience it. So I, I love that. John, let's talk about emotional intelligence. You sort of referenced this earlier as well. How does emotional intelligence play into being a solid leader for your team?

So emotional intelligence really is that secret sauce. It's, it's what connects you to someone else in a way that it doesn't feel like work all the time, which may sound kind of strange, but the reason why I say that is the better that you can be about understanding people and the more you can apply emotional intelligence, it's easier for you to get your needs met. I often talk about, you know, emotional intelligence or EQ as almost a backwards way of being selfish. If I focus on getting, if I focus on meeting your needs first and primarily that's my genuine focus, is to meet your needs, then I'm going to get my needs met. Because now you're in a position to thrive. You're in a position to be comfortable. You're in a position to feel that trust is being built. You're in a position to recognize that I'm vulnerable and that you can be vulnerable as well. EQ is the key to unlock everything. And even with the different generations, I'm so glad that you mentioned that, because four leaders, they, that is something that we've experienced over the past really 10 years, more than we've experienced in any other time in professional history, only because we have five generations working in the workplace at the same time and we all have just vastly different backgrounds and experiences. You know, I'm, I'm Gen X. I've got some wisdom down here on my chin. And I always say, you know, I grew up playing on broken glass and drinking water out of the garden hose, right? That was just, that was just how we did it back then. That doesn't work today. Like you were saying, you know, for, for Gen, for Gen Z and for Gen Alpha that's coming. It's all about relationships. It's all about trust. It's all about them feeling comfort like that, that, that, that F word, feeling like that's going to be so, so important. And that's all emotional intelligence. Emotional intelligence is how can you feel, how can you be empathetic, how can you understand and also maintain the professionalism, the focus and the drive and all the things that are important to be successful? It's that balance. And EQ really brings it all together 100%.

And, and you know what? I would say too. And a lot of people feel like, hey, you know, this next generation coming in, you know, they don't want to work. They don't want to, you know, there's, there's these stereotypes and it's like, guys, if we get our leadership right, they will work for you. Right. They will be the most committed, loyal people. But you need to meet them on their turf. Right. And, and I like that, the F word, I might have to use that. You know, the feelings, they're eager for connection.

I mean, that's, that's one of the things that we're still in a very digital age. But you know, there's, there's a lot of studies that are coming out that gen at the tail end of Gen Z and Gen Alpha. They want to get away from devices, they want to get away from not having human connection. They're craving that human connection. So if you're a leader that can intentionally build those relationships and build those connections, like you're going to have just an army of people who are just, just, just so happy to be working with you and for you, and that's how you build legacy as well. Yeah.

Let me ask you this, John. And, and this isn't on sort of our, our topic list that we want to talk about today, but I just want to maybe take that conversation a little bit further. Can we go as leaders, can we go too far, right? Can we go too far with feelings where all of a sudden productivity, like there's a balance, right? Like we can't, you can't just give everything because we know that they want connection. We just can't continuously give. There has to be a balance. Right. What's your thoughts on that?

Yeah, you're 100% right. There has to be a balance. Right. We're not, we're in business, right. You know, this isn't, we're not social. It's not a social club that we come to. We're not here to make everyone feel good all the time. So there is that balance. I think EQ helps us strike that balance because it allows us to lean into the hard parts of work through relationships. It allows us to do things like holding people accountable. There's a great, a great thing that I heard a couple years ago and that I've really kind of, you know, taking a deeper dive into, around accountability and accountability being the highest form of kindness when it's done right. But it can be challenging if you don't have the relationship that exists before. If you haven't addressed some of those feelings, then holding people accountable, especially to, you know, to, to Gen Z, Gen Alpha, tail end of millennials. It can feel like a confrontational conversation. It can feel like, you know, control and command rather than, than kindness and compassion. So it, it's, you do have to find that balance. But EQ is the gateway to being able to find the balance because you can't just come in like, you know, I, I just can't come in the way that, that I was raised, the way that I entered to the workforce and expect for different generations to have the same results. They're going to look at me like I'm, you know, mean, stern, crazy, all of those things, when the reality is I just want to get the job done. But I have to approach it in a way that will allow for them to be in that space where they have the comfort, where they have the confidence, where they have the focus to be able to get things done.

And, you know, we talk about this in our business as well. So much for our leaders to understand what it looks like to give feedback in a way where it's, it's more of a, hey, we're working on you. Right? Like, let's get you to the next level as part of understanding and getting their feelings and, you know, the care and the trust factor. Part of the trust factor is to be able to understand how to give feedback to help them develop in a way where it's not seen as critical or, you know, trying to tear them down. And I, I'm just trying to scan through my books here. One book that I've really liked, John, is Radical Candor by Kim Scott. Which, you know, if you're a leader and you're, and that's something that you struggle with, first and foremost, maybe you need to get some coaching from John. But second is, you know, look for books that can help you with specific skill sets. Because some of this is learned, right? Like, none of us were born to say, hey, we know how to give feedback in a way that everybody feels like, you know, we're moving forward together and excited about it. You know, it's a tough thing. Check out Radical Candor, which is all about how you respectfully give feedback where everybody's moving forward positively together. But sometimes it's, you know, it's having those difficult conversations. John, this was, this was really great. Thank you for entertaining me on going a little bit deeper there. What are some of the tools that you use with leaders to sort of look at their self awareness and their engagement with their team?

Yeah, I've been fortunate in my career to be able to get a couple certifications. So I'm certified in both DISC and Myers Briggs. So both of those are really great assessments in terms of being able to get a sense of people's true self. And it's always interesting when I take either an individual or a group through a DISC or Myers Briggs assessment process and give them an opportunity to start to understand themselves and they start to say, oh, wow, now things make sense. Now I get it now why I see why these things light me up and I see why these things feel like I'm dragging an 800 pound gorilla every time I have to do it. So that those are a couple of the key assessments. There's also a couple of assessments that I do kind of depending on who I'm working with. You know, I do a lot of work with, with our departments, with their leaders as well as individuals. And so I have a couple of different assessments that I use just so that way they can get a sense of the key areas of focus that may be, you know, holding them back at a certain point in time, whether it be confidence, whether it be imposter syndrome, whether it be just kind of lacking understanding of what's next, whether it be prioritization or, or whether it, you know, something even broader than that. So those are some of the tools that I use. But I've really found consistently that the tools around, you know, DISC and Myers Briggs are super helpful because it then allows us to have the right conversations at the right time. And those conversations are personal and specific. So they tend to land more than kind of broad based generic training that's out there.

Absolutely. So we did, and I can't remember which one, but they all have a different outcome. Right. So entr. Which one is that? Which, which study is that? That's. That is.

Sounds like Myers Briggs.

Is it Myers Briggs? Okay, so, so we went through and we got our leadership team assessed on this and guys were listening, you know, again, chat with John about this. He's likely got access to these and can help you understand them. But we went through this with our senior leadership team and all of those times where you have, you know, little friction moments with people you work with. And it's because we don't really understand where other people are coming from. Like we try to. But there's some underlying things that we'll never really understand until we get these assessments. And there's, there's one particular partner who, who I work with very closely and is one of my Closest colleagues and you know, communication. He, he doesn't elaborate on communication. He's very much an efficient communicator and it's something where he and I have always sort of had this back and forth together and, and then when you learn the back end of how he works and things that he likes to do and things he doesn't like to do and things that he's good at and things that he's maybe not so great at just inherently as your personality, it definitely helps you understand how you can work better together. And the other thing that we did is when we were recruiting for a clo, it was very much for me, I was like, well, I need to know what my personality type is so that I can find the matching personality that can work to be the Ying to my yang. Right. Like, of who that would be. And so when you do your personality type, it can also tell you what personality types you will work best with and who will best complement you. So that when you're recruiting for a major role, especially as the CEO, finding that complementary match is so, so important for long term success. So love, love that you have those.

Jobs and you use the perfect word there, complimentary match. Because what a lot of leaders will, will do if they don't have that lens into themselves and their preferences and their personality as well as a lens into EQ is leaders will tend to hire clones. Why? Because it's comfortable, it's predictable, it's, it seems like it's an easy, quick connection. It's like, yeah, because you just hired yourself. So of course it's going to be an easy, quick connection. But the blind spots that you have are probably the same blind spots that your clones have. And so you're missing out on so many opportunities to build a well rounded complimentary team. So. Yep, sorry for jumping in there, but yeah, when you said that word it was like that's, that's exactly it. That's the goal. And that's one of the benefits of focusing this, focusing the efforts around your leaders and helping them understand who they are so that way they can recognize where those opportunities exist.

Absolutely. And, and you know, like from my perspective, there's so much about this guys that's out there. But if you're a visionary and you're looking for the implementer, the integrator, like it is going to be a different personality type. The things that you don't want to do could light somebody else up and they're really excited about it. You need to get that, you know, you need to have somebody who can take on the second half of that role and execute on your ideas and your vision and your thoughts and someone who gets excited about it. And it's not going to be the person that you maybe are going to be like, oh, this is going to be my new best friend. It's like, well, no, you're not looking for your new best friend. You're looking for somebody who can be your better half in this situation. And not like a marriage. It is kind of like a marriage, but the one that can, can take the things that you're not good at and take them to another level. So, yeah, I love that. And I think there's so much value in that, guys, especially as you're growing your team, you're building your organization self awareness for you yourself on who you should be hiring and who you should be having around you in your support network, on your leadership team. So important and, and even getting you aware of maybe some of your biases in promotion of people who are like you that, you know, maybe we need to just be more aware of those as well. So, John, I love that, that you focus on this. Let's talk about this big word that we've mentioned a few times is imposter syndrome. Yes, walk, walk me through this because I, I know it's something that I deal with on and off at all times. So share with the audience here. What, what is imposter syndrome?

First of all, you are not alone. Imposter syndrome is something that, that nearly everyone struggles with. So there was a study that was done a few years back that I often cite around imposter syndrome. This was from, you know, a study of US workplaces back in 2022. 58% of the general population in the US workforce struggles with imposter syndrome on a regular basis. When you start to break that out a little bit more, 63% of our, some of our diverse team members are black and brown team members struggle with imposter syndrome. And there's some different things that are in play there. Right? It's, it's, you know, there's, there's history, there's historical context, there's, you know, being sometimes being an only or being one of few in an office that can compound that imposter syndrome. And then when you look at women in the workforce, 73% of women experience imposter syndrome on a regular basis. So we're just, you know, adding layers to it. So when we talk about imposter syndrome and you know, the things that women struggle with are, you know, sometimes, you know, predetermined gender roles, you know, patriarchy that exists within organizations. You know, we've seen and heard so many studies of, you know, women speaking up in meetings and being ignored. And then a man says the same exact thing that they say, and all the sudden, that's the greatest idea that everyone has ever heard, right? Those things contribute to that imposter syndrome. And really what the imposter syndrome is, is it's those. Those voices, those thoughts in your head that. That say, am I the right person? Should I be here? Have I earned this? Do I belong in this room? Are people listening to me? Do people care what I have to say? Right. All of those things start to form in our minds, those clouds of doubt. And those clouds of doubt really can impact how we show up, how engaged we are, how willing we are to speak up in meetings, whether we raise our hand for stretch assignments that we can probably do, but we're not sure, you know, it can really show up. As leaders, we'll see it a lot of times where we will either kind of shrink back and we won't lead courageously. Well, instead, we'll lead out of fear, which means that we're going to probably stifle innovation or probably going to micromanage a little bit more, or the flip side is we. We end up kind of acting a little bit toxic because we're overcompensating, you know, that false bravado. We're trying to fake it until we make it. And imposter syndrome is at the root of all of those things. And it really is. It's just those thoughts in your mind. And, you know, you said that something that you struggle with. Myself, you know, on LinkedIn, I'm the imposter syndrome slayer, and I struggle with it. Right. I was doing a presentation for an association of trainers and developer training and development earlier this year. So these are all, like, professional career trainers. I've been in that space for most of my career, and I was doing a webinar for them, and for like, the five minutes right before we went live, I was like, they're going to know everything that I'm saying is wrong. They're going to be looking at every single one of my slides and thinking that, oh, this should be looking this way. That should look like that was that imposter syndrome that, like, jumped up in that moment. I was like, chill, relax. You got this. You're supposed to be there. They've invited you, so it's okay. And at the End of the day, if you say something wrong, nobody knew what you're going to say beforehand, so you have a chance to clean it up on the back end. So it is something that we all struggle with, and it's. It's at. At all levels of organizations.

I want to share my. My first major. And. And again, guys, it. It happens to me all the time. You know, I constantly look at this and say, should I be the CEO of a $25 million revenue company with 200 employees? What. Who gives me the right to be that person? So those. Those conversations in my mind, happen all the time. And then, you know, you kind of have to get back to the who's better than me to do this, you know, like, who's going to be as invested in me as in moving this forward? But my. My biggest imposter syndrome moment, and, John, somewhat similar to yours, I remember it was my first large speaking event and large meeting multiple thousand people there. It was at a real estate conference in Toronto, and it was in a stadium, so they had it as a half stadium, so it had the full bleachers up top. And Kevin o' Leary was actually on right before me. And so I'm like, well, this is great. I've got Kevin o' Leary as my opener. And I actually said that when I came out, which I. I thought that changed the mood of the environment. I thanked him for being my opener. But I remember standing backstage and. And sort of laying the. The foundation was plywood over top of the ice of the arena. Right. So the condensation and the cool is slippery. And, you know, with the stage, the speakers are all facing the other direction, so all you could really feel was, like, the base of all the speakers in the background, they got fireworks going off. You got rounds of applause for Kevin o'. Leary. And I'm standing back there with this, like, what the hell did I get myself into? I. Why do I think I should be here? This is Kevin o'. Leary. I'm like, hey, I want to go listen to him. I don't want to listen to me. And, you know, what the hell do you think you have the right to be here for? And I would. I would say even worse, John, in your situation, presenting to your peers is way more challenging and way more imposter syndrome focused. Absolutely. And I remember sitting there and nervous, and I just had this moment of calmness. I just sort of took a deep breath, closed my eyes for a second, and I said, this is exactly where you were meant to be right now. And you know what? They don't know, and it's your time to shine. And I went out and I absolutely killed it. And I've never looked back as a speaker ever again. But that was one of those moments where I thought, oh, my God, I have really got myself in something. I'm going to have to walk off in disgrace by the time I finish this thing. Right. And. And then you have to focus on the confidence of what you do know and why it should be you and why these opportunities have happened for you and with you. But it's tough, right? It's constantly tough. And it's something that definitely comes up in leadership all the time.

Yeah. I mean, you. You embody the framework that I teach leaders on how to deal with imposter syndrome, which is name it, tame it, and reframe it. Like, once you recognize, those feelings come up. So, like, you were talking about, like, you're starting to recognize, like, who am I to speak after Kevin o'? Leary? Who am I to speak in this huge stadium? Who am I to. To be, you know, coming on the stage after all of this, like, being able to recognize, okay, I was invited here. I'm supposed to be here. I have a message that these people need to hear. I'm serving this audience by showing up and speaking and sharing my truth and sharing my information. Like, by naming the struggle of I'm feeling nervous, taming it, by putting it back in that bubble of it's okay, and then reframing it as this is going to be the next step towards everything that I've wanted to be. This is. This is who. This is where I need to be. Right here in that moment. You going through that process is where a lot of people get stuck. They get stuck in the fear and. And they never get to the point of naming it. They never get to the point where they can label it as this is imposter syndrome. This is just something that I need to work through. And then reframing it as this is going to be a positive. This is going to be something that's going to be beneficial to me and to others. So I love that you shared how you navigated through, because it does come up, but it doesn't have to be what stops us. It can really be just something that we just move through once we have a process and a framework to do.

So, see, look at this, guys. I'm learning how I got through this. I didn't even know. So thank you on this, John. But I think part of this, right, like, as CEOs as entrepreneurs, as leaders, like things. If you want to continue to crash through to the next level, you need to get comfortable with being uncomfortable. And I think, you know, part of that is learning how to get through those. Now I actually have a framework, John, so thank you. But understanding how to crash through that barrier like that was a big barrier for me. In that moment, I thought, there's no way I'm gonna do this. But then it was like, I need to deliver. I am here for everyone else. This isn't about me, it's about them. I'm here to deliver a message that I was brought here to. And then once I got through it, it was like, okay, well now, you know, I'm speaking at audiences. I think last year I was at an event, Keyspire with Shaquille o'. Neal. And it was like, yeah, I've she Shaqs up there first, no problem. You know, now a 10,000 person stadium. And it's, you know, that's totally good. I don't have that imposter syndrome anymore. Cause I got through that and now it's, it's onto the next imposter syndrome. Right. Like, continuing to crash through these barriers is so important as a leader. So really great tie in to this. John too, thinking about leadership. And I know for me, I, like I mentioned before, spent a lot of time trying to understand how I get my leadership skills to the next level. Can we talk about what that looks like for a lot of leaders who need to find a way to continue to grow themselves? What, what's something, how do, how do people approach that?

I mean, I think the first thing is, is getting a sense of self awareness, recognizing and whether that's just, you know, you doing some, some self reflection, some journaling to get a sense of the areas that you are strong in as a leader, in areas that you're not so strong in. Whether it's by going through, you know, some form of a formal or informal 360 process where you get feedback from people that experience you on a regular basis. Like the thing for, for leaders and for them to be able to grow, it really is that intentional investment of time, of resources and energy in doing that. Because here's the reality. With, with most companies, with most organizations, if you're an individual contributor, and you're a really good individual contributor, there's a high likelihood that you're going to get promoted. And then when you get promoted, a lot of times you'll get promoted to people, to lead a team of people. Because the Company says I want you to do that for them. But a lot of times the skills that we utilize to become a great individual contributor aren't the same skills that we need to lead others to be able to, to do the same. And so it, it's a different mindset completely. It's shifting the mind to now being people focused instead of being results focused. You're still going to get results, but you need to get the results through the people. So it's, it's really kind of getting in that space of self awareness, getting in the space of where am I now, where do I need to go and how can I fill in some of those gaps that I haven't had in the past. And again, kind of taking us all the way back to the beginning is it's those people skills. It's the trust, it's the communication, it's the connecting with people in the moment and leading them in the moment. It's how you're leading people through change. All of those are the things that as, as a growing leader or as an evolving leader or even if you're in a leadership role and you just want to take it to that next level, that's where the focus needs to be. You know, focus on yourself. And then also I talk to leaders about adjusting their eyes when they get in some of these higher level leadership roles and, and starting to think strategically, starting to think from a visionary standpoint, thinking bigger picture than just the day to day transactions. And again, a lot of times you do need some, some coaching, some support, some development to be able to shift that mindset because you're so used to finding success in the ways that you did it as an ic. And then when you start to move into those leadership roles, it's going to take, you're going to find that same success. It's just going to take a different skill set, different approach, different mindset in order to get there.

So. And m, this is probably a really great transition to let, let's talk about winner's edge coaching and your methodology. Can you share with us how you approach coaching and leadership mentorship for those individuals and those teams?

Yeah, absolutely. You know, it, it's, it's a lot of things we've talked about. You know, I do focus heavily on eq, so one of the first things that I do, if not the first thing, is to have someone that I'm working with to fill out an assessment, whether it be Disc or Myers Briggs, kind of whatever their preference is. And a lot of times, you know, the Company that they work for will drive that as well. And then there's also another assessment that I have people fill out to kind of give me a sense of where they see themselves in their role, where they see themselves as having strengths as well as opportunities. From there, it's funny, like, you know, a lot of coaches have an approach of let me just ask a whole bunch of questions and then with those questions, I'll answer those questions with more questions for you to find it through self discovery, that has some benefits. I also recognize that a lot of times when people are looking to work with someone as a coach, it's because they're stuck. And as a coach, I can help them get unstuck. I can help have a different perspective. A lot of times it's just kind of, you know, rephrasing certain things that may be in their mind and thinking about it a different way so that way they can communicate it with their team differently. So whether it's, you know, working individually with people or working in a group cohort, that's where we spend a lot of our time, is really recognizing how to leverage the EQ that we get, how to leverage the knowledge that we have about ourselves. And then how do we use that to then build those stronger connections with the people that are on our teams, people that we're leading, people within our organization, even peer to peer building those relationships. I focus a lot on relationship building as a coach because I truly see, because I've seen it over and over and over again, that's where the magic happens, happens. It's through those building the relationships. It's not, it's not always the tactical aspects of the work that people do.

So and now who would you, you've sort of referred to this a couple times, but who would you specifically work with along with your coaching services?

Yeah, most of the people that I work with are in senior level leadership roles. So those who are, you know, within an organizational structure at the director level or above, and usually those directors, you know, they may have teams anywhere ranging from, you know, 10 people on their team to, you know, to 20 or 30 people on their team. When I work with those who are in the C suite, I work generally with the CEO, COO level individuals. And it really is in kind of smaller organizations helping them recognize how to stay connected to the people in the business while also being visionary, strategic and looking long term and how those two things intersect. And I think that's where I've seen some pretty interesting success stories where leaders start to think a little more transactionally and they're struggling to figure out how to get there and then nudging them back towards the transformational approach of let's invest in your people, let's invest in their knowledge, let's invest in their skills, let's invest in ways that we can make the culture better and we're going to see those results. A lot of times it's not, it's not new, you know, it's not new software and it's not new innovation. It's not new products and services that's going to move the needle. It's let's make sure that our culture is super strong. Let's make sure our people is super strong. So oftentimes, you know, HR is kind of my, my gateway, my entryway into those organizations because HR typically has a really good sense of what's happening with the business and also what's happening in the business. And so they kind of get it more often than not on how to connect those things and where the real areas of focus generally tend to be.

Love that. And so maybe just share one last piece. You know, what is your approach to tailoring teachings from, you know, junior level people to senior level people essentially from startup founders potentially to those seasoned executives. How do you change your approach depending on who it is that you're working with?

Kind of, I try to meet them where they are. You know, a lot of startup founders are pulling a lot of things we've talked about, right? Imposter syndrome is a big thing with startup founders because they haven't done it before, right? So they don't know what's next. So they're trying to predict and solve for every X that comes up. And a lot of times it's, well, let's, let's focus on this X right now. Let's not worry about future X's, let's worry about the things that we can control and let's worry about the things that we want to focus on in the, in the now and the near term and how can we use those as building blocks. So for, for the startup founders, for the smaller companies, smaller organizations, you know, it really is a little bit more hands on and a little bit more kind of like in the moment. For larger organizations and for, you know, those who are in the C suite, it is more big picture, it's more long term, it's more about kind of setting up longer term processes. It's more about setting up, you know, longer term kind of infrastructures for, for learning, for development, for feedback. So that way they're not kind of off doing things in a, in a silo with what they think is best for the business when everyone in the business is focusing and struggling with other things. So it's trying to marry those two worlds together.

Love that. Let me ask you one last question and then I'm going to recap and make sure that everyone knows how to get a hold of you, how to connect with you, follow you on LinkedIn. So we'll get, we'll get there in one second. The last thing I want to ask you is, you know, if you had to start over in building your business, building your coaching, what is something that you know now that you wish you knew when you first started?

One thing.

Yeah, well, pick one. Pick your favorite. I know there's probably, there's probably a hundred, right? I, I know. I would too. But yeah, I, I would say if.

I were to, to, to go back and, and tell, tell my, my, my earlier business career self, one thing to focus on, it really would be to understand this, understand the, the power and the value of your brand and not your brand from a, like I want to have a million followers or I want everybody to know me, but my brand of what I can do to help people, how I can support and serve and really being super clear on defining that brand that I think would be the thing that I would tell my, my younger earlier self. Because once I was able to kind of get that, it really opened up everything else. Once I understood why, once I understood the purpose for the work that I did and once I understood how to communicate that, that really opened up things tremendously. And you know, ironically, it was tied to overcoming some of the imposter syndrome because as I mentioned from the top, like, I didn't come from a classic business, business background. I didn't have, you know, classic business education. I spent 10 years watching games and, and, and putting highlights on television and then stepped into something completely new. So I had to learn it all on the fly. But the, the sooner that I was, the earliest I was able to connect with a brand of who I am and what I do and how I serve, that really has been the game changer.

I love that and I'm going to share ours in a minute. But before I do that being my purpose. But how can people get a hold of you, John? Where, you know, website, social, where's the best place to find you?

So the best place to find me is on LinkedIn. So you know, LinkedIn.com in Big John Little is my tag on LinkedIn so you could find me there. That's the easiest place to find me. I also, you know, have a website, the Winners Edge Coach or Winners Edge coaching dot com. And I do have one of the assessments that I mentioned that people can take, you know, if imposter syndrome is something or leadership is something that they're interested in getting more of a kind of a self check of where you are. Winners edge.scoreapp.com Just a really quick assessment that people can take, gives a pretty quick insights into, you know, where they are, opportunities that they have to grow as well as things that they can leverage additional strengths. So those, you know, those are really the main areas. LinkedIn, the Score app, winners edge.scoreup.com as well as my website.

Well, that and we'll make sure, guys, that we include those links in the posting of this podcast, which should be coming out in the coming weeks. John, this has been an absolute pleasure. I could talk leadership with you all day. I appreciate your insights. I think that you've reaffirmed some of the thoughts that I've had. Definitely walked me through a framework of how I got through my imposter syndrome, which I will now reference right down and say, okay, this is the framework I need to get through it next time it happens. So thank you for everything that you shared today. This has been amazing.

No, you're welcome. Thank you, Bob. I really appreciate it and I always love the opportunity to speak leadership. As you can tell, it's something I'm very passionate about. So thanks again for the opportunity to talk with you and your audience.

Amazing. Well, guys, this has been the Wealthy Entrepreneur podcast. I'm your host, Bob Govreau. It is always a pleasure to have you here. And as you know, John shared some incredible insights today. Listen, if there's something that he said that really resonates with you and you feel like, hey, you know what, if I just shared this with someone else, I could maybe make a positive change. Make sure that you grab this, share it, send it out. You know, we're excited. Ultimately, like John was talking about, we're here to empower entrepreneurs and CEOs with the financial confidence and resources they need to make informed decisions so that together we can move the world forward. And so if you share this information with somebody who needs it, you know, we're doing that together and we're helping fulfill our purpose. Make sure you give us a like, any questions, comments, drop them in. We'll be happy to respond to anything that you guys have in here. Again, we'll put all the resources in, make sure you give us a follow. Every week. We're, we're releasing new content, new interviews and new experts like John. So we want to continue to bring these insights to you. So once again, everybody, thank you for joining us today. Appreciate it so much. Look forward to seeing you again next week.