From Classroom to Boardroom: Unleashing the Potential of the Next Leaders

I also think, and I want to be careful the way I say this, but we've talked about it a lot in post secondary, and I'm sure you've heard it too, is that we've definitely seen maybe a less resilience in this generation. There may be some growing pains where we have to really be okay with the fact that they're more attentive than we might like. When I say we have to think about this group a little differently, it's not because I don't think they have all of that. I just think there are different approaches that may be needed for some of them.

All right, Melanie, I am so excited to have you here. And for those of you who don't know, I've had the opportunity to be the CEO in residence out of Trent University, which has been, I'm going to say, like a career altering sort of experience for me in understanding the next generation and different levels of maybe my own leadership as well. And part of that is because I've had the opportunity to connect with incredible people like you. Melanie, I would love for you to give us a little bit of a background on how you got to where you are today.

Thank you so much, Bob. And it was really great to meet you at Trent for the first time, really this fall, and to have you as part of the CEO in Residence program. It's been stupendous for us as well, and great for both, I would say, staff, faculty and students. So thank you for that. How did I get to where I am? That's a very big question. My background, I mean, I have a PhD in Canadian history, but my PhD was in gender, business and entrepreneurship, actually. So I looked at women and business ownership and what businesses, what really, what business ownership even meant for female workers in the early 1900s. 1900s overall, basically. So I have an academic background as a historian, but I have a lot of experience at Trent in student life, student leadership, resources and supports for students. And that's really where most of my career has been. So I started out in academia, I guess, and then I teach part time alongside working to support students in extracurricular engagement and in their experiential learning, which is a great combo because I get to see them in the classroom and see how they're learning. And then I also get to interact with them in broader ways doing extracurricular work like micro credentials and connecting them to you and mentorship and all of those good parts.

Yeah, and you know what? I. One major thing that I think different differentiates you from anyone Else that I met there is your energy, energy and enthusiasm and willingness to just go above and beyond for the students that are at Trent University. It's admirable and you definitely got my respect from moment one. So kudos to you. It's like, it's not necessarily an easy task. You know, a lot of these, and I've been part of quite a few masterminds, and the one that I'm in right now, we talk about trauma, some trauma and stress and resiliency, and we talk about, you know, the highest levels of stress that we're actually in our lives. Whether it's the right answer or not. The highest level is in that teen adolescent forming who you are, your knowledge, like the highest stress levels of your lifetime. Even though when. When we get a little bit older and we know that, you know, there's death and health and sickness and finances and all that stuff that comes, it's maybe more challenging at that part in our life. We don't necessarily have the experience to cope with it. So you're molding some of these students and helping support them through maybe their most challenging stage in their life, which is, you know, super powerful in what you do.

Yeah, it's big and it's actually why it's so rewarding. But also, just what you just said, it can be really stressful because you realize there's a lot that they're learning. I think the number one, I mean, I. I also have students that work in my office, so I. I work with the students as. I guess they're as. As staff members as well as. As students at the university. And then again, through their leadership and the other things they're doing and student government. But one of the things that I think is super important, and you kind of just said it, is they're in a high stress period and they are building resiliency, but they don't necessarily have it all yet. And they don't feel confident yet to say, I have an idea or am I on the right path? Or they worry a lot about their future, which makes sense because you and I did, too. I mean, I worried all the time. And sometimes I tell them, you should worry less because things will work out, like, worry less. But one of my jobs, I think, and this is maybe where my enthusiasm comes from, is to build them up to be like, you've got this. You're great, you're wonderful. And watching a student go from, I don't know, how did I do on this? To oh, my gosh, she said, I have This, I can do it like that. It sounds minor, but it's not to really instill a sense of, you have this, you're vibrant, you're intelligent, nobody can take that away from you. And anybody can grow and learn from this. And I think that is important to what I am teaching them.

Absolutely. And you know what? It's something that at any stage in our life, if we're a leader of any sort, that has to be something that we incorporate. And I know for me, a good example was last Friday night. I think I was at the office maybe a little later than I should have been. I don't know that my wife was thrilled with me last Friday. But, hey, you know, that's what happens when you have your own business. I remember before I left on Friday, I sent four voice notes to my team members, and all of those four notes were to say, listen, I see what you do, I see what you've done. You've done an incredible job. I believe in you. I'm so grateful to have you on our team, and I can't wait to see what we create together. And everybody's message was slightly different, but it's just acknowledging, you know, some of the positive things that they're doing and continuing to reinforce that they're doing a good job. You know, everybody needs it. Everybody needs a cheerleader.

Absolutely. And I think students can find they're running through multiple classrooms. They're, they're young, which is not, that's not a weakness. It just is where they're at. They're really busy. And they're not, they're not. They're in the training period of building confidence, which leads to other things down the road. And they're not all good at everything. That's certainly true. But the more you can find the strengths and say, that was amazing what you did there was amazing, the more ready they are to hit the next thing and the next thing and the next thing. And then if they have a mistake, you just say, and this. I tell my student staff this and my actually professional staff in this office all the time. I'm never going to yell at you and be angry for a mistake. It's a mistake. You're learning and doing your best. So we definitely lead from a place of you're not ever in trouble, really.

And I think too, especially, you know, Trent University being a world class educational institution like it is, I think for any leader who's in any sort of innovative environment, that has to be it. Like, if you're, if you're Constantly nagging people for making mistakes or taking chances or stepping outside of their comfort zone. Your innovation as a leader is going to be so stagnant and you know that you're never, you're going to always be falling behind and never catching up because that's, you know, an element of leadership that we all need to embrace.

Exactly. And I think, I think one of the things that ties what I do in a little tiny way to what you just said about innovation, but also actually to risk taking an entrepreneurship, you might think, well, she's neither wealthy nor an entrepreneur. What is she talking about? But these things come together and are important because we are innovative for sure. We're asking students to take risks every day. We're trying to make sure we're open to every conversation. And then on top of that, I'm running programs around entrepreneurship and innovation and leadership. And what the students say when they come into those is, I want to see how to improve my future and I want to learn for the future. I want to engage in something that's going to sometimes in the classroom, but beyond the classroom. And then one of the things we're kind of instilling as well is I'm nep. So first, never going to be mad. As I said, you know, it's okay to do badly and to make a mistake, but also you're going to fail and failure is part of learning and that's okay. And I don't just mean failing a class. I mean you're going to stumble. And we've been talking about that in the micro credential, even just, well, there are risks in what we do and then we learn from those risks and it changes the, the behavior for the next time.

Yeah. And you know, and that just hits home so much with resiliency and, and risk taking and failing. You know, I think the idea too that everybody needs to embrace for is more risk you're willing to take, the higher likelihood that you're going to fail, or there's going to be elements of failure along your journey. Journey. And, and it's okay. And you know, one of the things I see and, and it's amazing to see how you're leading these students. But one of the things I see a lot of is people who get stuck in this mindset of being so risk averse and you know, a little unhappy with the way they, they never got a break or they never got a chance. It's like, you know what, this is just something that you have to, you have to take that risk. I Was at the gym last Friday and I told my trainer I was going to do this social post and I haven't done it yet, but I'll talk about it here and maybe this will be my accountability note to do it. I said, I hate leg day. Like, I hate it. I hate leg day. I could care less about having strong legs in my life. You know, Like, I. It's just not something that, for me is something that's important. A lot of trainers love it, right? They have. They always have big legs, strong legs.

I'm with you. I'm just going to stop you there and say, I'm with you. Because I do all. Do arm weights and then I'm like, I walk and I bike and I do all the other things on my legs. They don't need more.

No, I know. Like, they're holding me up all day. What else do they need? Right? But I. I told him, I said, you know, as a trainer, you're not going to like this. I hate leg day and I never want to do legs. And I said, but here's the thing. And I was like, this is, I think, you know, a component of or a characteristic of being someone who's open to taking risk is that, you know that it's going to be painful. And so I said, I will never skip leg day. I know Fridays, that's what he wants to do with me. And I'll never tell him to change it, even though I hate it, because I think there's an element of continuing to push forward even though things are going to be difficult. Because I think a lot of times people pull away from that and they say, well, you know, I don't want to really put myself in a position where it's going to be hard. And I think exactly what you're saying is it's okay to put yourself in that position and you're going to fail or you're going to struggle, and that's okay, because on the other end of this, you're going to have these learnings and this growth and this strength and, you know, stronger legs that are also part of, you know, the highest oxygen and, you know, blood circulation in your body, largest muscle in your body. It is a good thing. We know it's good, but it just sucks. And. And I think that's what you're doing with this generation, too, is you're telling them that it's okay. And I think that's important.

I. Yes, I think all of that, and. But I also think. And I want to be careful the way I say this, but we've talked about it a lot in post secondary and I'm sure you've heard it too is that we've definitely seen maybe a less resilient, less resilience in this generation. And I don't, I shouldn't say this generation, it's not all people, but Covid for sure plays a role in that. Social media for sure plays a role in that busyness and comparing to others and pressures of the world. And I think a little bit of doom saying and doom scrolling about the world. I don't think that 18 to 22 year olds can just kind of press on through the leg day in the same way that maybe we could and it's not because we're better or stronger or it's none of that, it's just a different dynamics. So I think the other thing thinking about younger people and leadership is that, and this is going to sound, maybe it won't we need to over cheerlead to get them there because they don't already have a well of resiliency, if that makes sense. So sometimes I'm really cheering for someone for something that may not seem like a huge hurdle, but for them it was a huge hurdle that they came out of their room, they had lunch with someone, they attended a talk once in their whole university career outside of the classroom. And I'm going to be the one saying you nailed that. Good for you. You looked up, you walked out into the world, you didn't stay in your pajamas. That's amazing. And it might seem like I'm overcompensating and I am, but I'm doing it because I think their resiliency, well, is not very, is not very full.

Interesting. And it's, it's true, right? And I know as parents and I'm there as a parent, this is just how I roll. Sometimes I have to catch myself. But it's, you know, I, I actually, I have a saying for my kids. Life is going to be tough and you have one of two ways to respond of a tough situation. One, you can feel sorry for yourself and say how the world is out to get you and that things are hard and it's unfair. Or two, prove them wrong or learn from it and continue to grow from it and take, take it on and improve from it. And I always say like you can choose either one as long as it's the second one, right. And I know that, that sometimes based on what you're saying maybe is a little bit of the tough love From a parent perspective and for sure, you know, I've heard parents and I've heard. Probably done it myself. I've done it myself. Where, where, you know, that kid who wouldn't come out of the classroom or come out of their bedroom and in their pajamas and it's their first time, instead of being the cheerleader like you are saying, you know, I'm proud of you, good job, you know, you should do it again. This is amazing. What great progress that I've been part of this, and I hate this about, about our society as well, is that I've said, oh, really? You're proud of that? You can do so much more. And I agree with you. I think it's the wrong approach. And if we're looking at being leaders, we need to embrace that people are coming from different situations, then we can even understand to all depths. And we need to help support them to get to their end game or to continue to be successful.

Yes. And I think that is what struck me, thinking about the idea of youth and leader, younger leadership or new leadership or how we prepare for a new generation coming into business, leadership, entrepreneurship, you name it, is that there may be some growing pains where we have to really be okay with the fact that they're more attentive than we might like. And I think it, I think it may be different than it was 10, 15, 20 years ago.

So let's, let's dive into the generation. So here's my two cents. From having the opportunity to spend essentially a full week out of campus in different lectures, in different wine and cheese events, having different conversations, mentorship. My two cents on this generation, when I came out of there was we're good. Because there's always this concern and it's always from the older generation that says, you know, if we have this next generation coming through, it's terrifying because we don't have that next level of leaders. Because they have been, you know, growing up in the social media world and a little bit more intimidated to do things the way that we did. And I spent a week there and I was like, we're good. This group is intelligent, they're determined, they are well committed, and every, every attribute of a successful person that I would want to see. You know, I left there being inspired to know that we're in good hands.

Oh, I agree. I think we are too. And I think when I say we have to think about this group a little differently, it's not because I don't think they have all of that. I just think there are different approaches that may be needed for some of them. And some of them, you know, the ones you don't meet are the ones that aren't ready yet and they're not out there yet. And they're the ones I'm also in my job going to care a lot about. The ones that don't think the thing is for them and that don't. A good example is they may not. A student may not come to a talk, let's say, because they don't feel like it matters that they're there or that no one will notice them or they, they won't benefit from it. And if they sign up and then they just don't show up, no one will care. So people often say, well, I hate it that students sign up for a talk. Or I say they're going to attend and they just don't show up. They just don't even care. Like, no, they don't think they matter. They think if they don't show up, we won't notice that they're not there. So personal, direct, positive reinforcement for those students to make sure they get all, all of that as well. But I totally agree with you in saying that I think they need slightly different forms of, I think slightly different forms of coaching. I guess I would say it doesn't mean I don't think we're not in good hands. We are. And the students I meet every day are superstars and are just like trucking along, working two jobs, going to school full time, coming out to things, hungry for mentorship for sure. Like that one is, has been huge, made hugely evident to me. And you are part of the draw, of course, for that. But they really do want to connect and talk and learn about what, where they can go with their futures.

Yeah, 100%. And I can, I, I can say from my experience too, and I think I was just mentioning to you before we jumped on here, I think our average rage is somewhere around the mid-20s range. So unfortunately, it does make me feel a little old sometimes, Melanie. But that's okay. I'm okay with that. It happens. Yeah, it happens. And, and again, you know, being more of a risk taker, whether it's people my age or it's people in their 20s, I would never expect people to put as much on the line as I do. In fact, I would highly not recommend it because it's, it's not always a fun time. But one of the things I would say is over the last couple of years, as we've continued to move our group in the 20s. I've seen a huge influx of younger people, the next generation coming in. They are extremely bright. They are really excited about advancement and having a really clear knowledge of what it is that they need to do to get to the next level. That's something that I hadn't seen specifically until the last couple of years. Like the, the desire. I'm sure you're seeing it too, like that they're like sponges. What is it that we need to do to get to that next level? Which is pretty amazing.

Yeah, I'm seeing that for sure. They're hungry for it.

Yeah, they're really hungry for it. And they want to see that they do have opportunity. Right where, you know, I know my generation back in the day, my generation, you were like, no, what you do is you show up to work, you work longer hours than you're supposed to, you put your head down, you're committed, you're a good person, and, and you'll get your chance, you know. And now they're coming in smarter and going, okay, we're going to work hard here, but show us how we get there. Because we don't necessarily want to just do all of the work without being intelligent and knowing that we can get to an outcome that we're hoping for. And I think that's, that's a change.

Yes. And I think they also have. I was thinking about the sort of ideas of success and wealth and what that means. And I think they. This gen, I can keep saying generation, like the entire group versus us oldies.

A huge generalization of generations.

So let's just say the students I encounter at Trend in the 18 to 24 range have a really well rounded and maybe more subtle definition of what they want out of their lives in terms of success and wealth. And wealth might mean time and it might mean a different kind of wealth building around your time and the value of your time and how you put that time into the world and then how you make time for other things in your world. I think they're defining that in a really nice way. And I think we talk a lot about success is not just one path and one way. And you may. And then to the point of entrepreneurship. I mean, some of them, the example I can give is the micro credential we're running right now on entrepreneurship and innovation. A lot of the students in IT are not in business. A lot of them don't want to be entrepreneurs. But they can see the soft skills, the leadership, the ideas about the future and innovation and risk Taking and creativity all fitting in to their life goals, even if they don't want specifically to be entrepreneurs. And that's really valuable and important. And I think they're seeing they can make those interconnected interdisciplinary connections in a really nice way, which is beautiful and perfect and exactly what you want in a university setting and in the. In the extracurricular part of that university. You want them making connections from different disciplines and thinking about their own future success, how they want to define it, 100%.

And I think, you know, the reality is, although I don't like talking about it that much, Covid happened and, and it changed everything. And a lot of the students that are coming through the university experience right now and, and are now entering the workforce have been subject to a time in their lives where they weren't allowed out of their room, you know, and, and for many of them in their twenties, that's a decent chunk of their life, that's 10% of their life that they were subjected to being locked in like prisoners and having to figure out how to learn in that environment and how to excel in that environment. And even those that aren't part of that generation, like our generation experiencing that too, and going, wait a minute, life is now coming in a different lens than what it used to. We're looking at new priorities. And I would say flexibility in how the work environment is structured and created needs to be something that employers need to incorporate. Because, like, you're talking about as, as I'm hearing you with some of the students not coming to lectures, like, sometimes the students may not want to go to the office because they have more flexibility or they're more comfortable. And word to the employers out there, we have to be creative. We're marketing essentially a position to whatever generation we're trying to appeal to and whatever skill set, we need to look at what they want. Just like any marketing initiative and say, how do we create that so that we're filling their void? Are you seeing that as well?

Yeah, absolutely. And I think the second piece to that is we also need to be careful not to judge that, oh, they want something different from what we did, they must be this, this, this. They must be less motivated, they must care less. No, they are just a different generation. And they're going to create their own future. And we have to, as much as we're in front of them and we're talking about leadership, we have to be open and listen to their ideas for the future as well, because ours is not the only way or the best way So I think it's that humility. I think we have to have humility as the leaders of that and not just assume. Because I have heard employers say, well, kids today, they just don't want to work as hard, and they don't want to come into the office, and they want a lot more holidays. Well, maybe they do, but maybe they'll work better and faster and stronger because you're able to meet their needs 100%.

And maybe they're just smarter than we are, and that's really a better way to do things, you know, And I think as leaders, we always need to reflect and take a pause. And I, you know, I always. I say this is one of my strengths. I feel as a leader, and maybe other people don't feel that way, but I do. I feel this way, is that I will never have an emotional response to something. You know, if. If someone were to say to me, one of our team members were to say, you know, I really don't like the environment, or, you know, I want to change something. Everyone's first sort of impression is, well, that's offensive. Or how dare you say that? Or, well, this has been it, the way it always has been, and it's always worked. You know, think about it, process it, interpret it, and say, you know, can we make this better? You know, is. Is that insight. Is that feedback something that can make us stronger and faster together? One person is saying it, 30 people are thinking it. You know, it's. It's something that I think we all, as business owners and employers need to be thinking about as we head into the future. Melanie, I want to ask you this. As leaders of businesses who are listening to this, and we're creating areas for employment, and you have probably one of the best relationships with the ongoing students as they're coming out, what sort of things can us as leaders do to prepare an environment for success for the next generation?

Well, I think making. So the students coming out of my area, like, under. I was gonna say under my wing, but the students coming out of my area say we've created a positive work environment where they. They say, I feel happy coming to work. I make good relationships with people. I feel supported and heard. And it's been just such a positive work environment. And so. And then they gain confidence from that. And so I think if employers are thinking in terms of. And again, I don't. I'm not. When I say positive work environment, I don't mean everybody has to roll out the red carpet and make sure there's A really good espresso machine and donuts every Friday. But if employers could employ radical empathy, really, really careful listening skills and the kinds of performance reviews where on top of laying out what the person is doing could, could open the door to what could I do better for you? What could I do as an employer? And some do that very well. But where are we working together to make this a positive work culture? I think that would be huge. I don't think employers need to reinvent everything and have beanbag chairs in every office. I think they just need to say, I'm going to listen to your ideas. I'm going to make positive corrections when I need to. But you will never be made to. You will never be demeaned by that and making sure that they're being heard. I don't think it's that much more complicated than that.

Yeah, no, and I, I completely agree. And, you know, consistently and everybody, again, listening. It's our job to evolve and learn. Right? We can't. It's just not going to work like it did 10 years ago. It's, you know, whether. Whether we're dealing with people who are in the baby boom generation or not, things have changed. Circumstances are changing. And as innovative business leaders, we need to evolve with them. And I think, to Melanie's point, it's listening and genuinely listening. Not pretending to listen and shutting it off, but interpreting it and saying, how can we use this information to make it better? How can we support people?

And then, of course, there's a place in that to sort of say, sometimes as the boss, I'm gonna have to give hard truths. But one of the things we've talked a lot about in my office is I'm gonna give you some love and give you the hard truth. I'm gonna say, I love this, this, and this. And I really care and respect. I care about you, Bob, as a person. I really respect you. And what you did with this part of your role, it wasn't what we needed. And I'm going to have to ask you to redo it. And I'm going to make some corrections, and this is how we're going to behave in this office. And I still think you're wonderful, 100%. You can do both. You have to do both.

I read a book called Radical Candor, and that's it. You know, the fundamental element of it is exactly what you're saying. It's like, how do we communicate in a way that's respectful, but give candid feedback that helps people become better and and they embrace it because they want to be better in how you're communicating. And it's not an attack. It's a respectful conversation of how can we continue to both learn and grow together. And empathy is a huge word.

Yes. And they have to trust that you're not gonna backstab them for that. They have to trust that if you. Especially if you ask them for feedback about your own performance. If, you know, if you ask me, oh, how am I doing as a boss? Like, what, Is there anything I can change? You have to be open to hear that if you're going to ask the question as well and not use it against somebody. Otherwise, don't ask it. Right. But they'll know. They'll know if they're in a supportive culture. And it, again, it doesn't mean loosening your standards or asking less of people. You'll get a better, more responsive employee if you approach it. That's my opinion.

If you approach it that way, I completely agree. And in practice, what we've done for everybody, just as an idea for you to incorporate, we do employee surveys and anonymous employee surveys every quarter. And part of the reason we want everybody to be heard, you know, and everybody has an opportunity to talk to their manager, and their manager can bring ideas forward. That can happen at all times. But it's like, maybe it's about the manager. Maybe it's about, you know, the way that the organization is running, and people just want an environment to know that it's a safe place to be able to do it. And so we do that, and that's, you know, 10% of the way. And then to actually take that information and do something about it. Right. And I got to tell you, I've had a couple of these employee surveys where there's, you know, one or two personal sort of notes in there where I'm like, hey, you know, like, you're like, oh, geez, this is not what I wanted on Friday night to be looking at. But then again, you take the. The pause and be like, okay, so what is the meaning behind this? Right? How do we improve this? How do we make it better? Is it a consistent theme? Because one of the feedback components we've had after. After doing this is that we can see that the management team is interpreting this information and they're making positive change with it. It's not just a vehicle for people to share their grievances. It's how do we share those grievances? How do we make it better? How do we eliminate that and can be A continuous employer to create a better environment and moving it forward is so important.

And I think what you'll, you'll agree as well, and other people might, thinking about who's listening to this. It takes time and work more than you can ever imagine to be open, not only open to feedback, but in my case, open to keep my door literally open for every student that comes in. Oh, Melanie, she looks busy right now. I don't know if we should interrupt her. Come on in. Interrupt me. Oh, are you too busy? Come on in. Can I just ask a quick question? Yes, you can. Like I just try to say yes, but it, that can be, it can take a toll on yourself. But if you really want to say I'm here for you and you really want to push that and you want to be as genuinely you as you can, you have to, you have to just be like, yep, I'm here for you, I'll put this aside.

Yeah. And so I 100% agree. I would maybe not do it the exact same way that you would, but I, I can completely understand the way that you, you're doing it in student life. Yeah, totally. And I'm thinking too, for the business owners, if you have like, the bigger your team gets, the more open your door is, the more interruptions and the lack of stuff you get done. However, however, here's the key because we've solved this by it wanting to incorporate both worlds, is to have direct one on one feedback every single week and to create a cadence of open communication with everyone in their direct report so that you know, every leader meets with their team every single week. It's scheduled, it's 15, 20 minutes to be like, how are you doing? You know, and then having maybe team meetings and structure. But you have to, you have to, especially those that are building remote environments where people are isolated at home, they want to feel like they're part of something. You have to check in, you have to have that open door. You have to have communication channels, whether it's teams or slack or whatever you want to do. But then have that one on one check in where it's like, I just want to for 15 minutes know how you're doing.

Yes, yes. And I, yes. And I, I mean, I also agree you can't in every job all the time have your door open all the time. In the university world, I can't either. But the more I make it clear that I am available, the more my staff, both my professional staff and my student staff, they respect what they can see enough that they're like, oh, gosh, okay, I'm really not going to bug Melanie today. Like, I know she's working. And if I say I really need to get something done, they're so, they're so aware that I will almost always say yes. That they're very respectful when I have to say no. And I think that translates to other places as well. If, if you're as available as you can be, but you have to sometimes say, I can't do this today. You've made it clear that you're there for them 99% of the time. And they can therefore really respect when you have to put in boundaries. So works.

I agree. And I think, you know, you, you mentioned a foundational quality that I think is important in this too. And it's that trust, whether you have the open door where anybody can come in or not or whatever that looks like to know that they have the trust to be open and honest with you and it. To not have negative repercussions. Right. To. To have that as a feedback forum and know that it's. If somebody says something that's negative to you and it's a personal attack, it's a different level.

Totally different.

Yeah, yeah. But if it's a, if it's a. How do we work to solve this problem and to create that element of trust or that your door is open and that people can trust that they can come in and see you. You know, I've heard so many times people have an open door policy, but it's really not. It's like it's an open door in, in a figure, but don't walk in there, you know, and that is not okay. It's. It's about the trust. And yeah, if you don't have an open door policy, but you have a means for people to have an open, honest feedback or a conversation with you, that's a super important piece too.

I have one. And I have one more really quick thing I wanted to tell you about students for the next, like, for the work world to come on top of all the things we just talked about, which is don't assume they know things that they don't. So the older we get, the more removed we are from things that we just absorbed and understood. I had. And the example I'll give is a few years ago, I asked a student to throw something in the mail and she didn't, she didn't know how to tell me that she didn't know how to. She actually didn't know how to address the Envelope. Like she hadn't sent a piece of mail before. This is a couple years ago.

How true is that?

And I realized that's not her fault. Like I assumed she knew something. Maybe it seems like a pretty low bar, but it wasn't for her. She just hadn't sent mail before. So remembering that sometimes our staff as well won't want to admit the things they don't know how to do. And so when in particular, when I'm dealing with students who are younger, I try to remember, right. They might need a walk through and I shouldn't assume any prior knowledge. And they might be afraid to ask because they think they're supposed to know it. And yes, they Google everything, Bob, that does happen. But they, they just like, it just stumped her for about half a day. And I was like, what is she doing? Like, there's, it's just an envelope. And yeah, she couldn't do it. And now she knows. Now she knows. But so not. It's. That's not a sign of intelligence in any way. And it's not a sign. I'm not criticizing in any way. I'm just saying if we make assumptions about a 21 year old coming into our office, they just may not have learned that skill yet.

100%. And, and what I would say to the, that group coming up is, man, they problem solve things way quicker than we. Like you said, they, they do Google everything. And I'm like, yeah, like I would, but they've probably already got the YouTube tutorial, you know, loaded into their phone and walking in and they're solving it right now. And I'm still trying to spell something out, you know, like, it is pretty cool.

They teach me a lot of things. I mean, I did teach her how to do the envelope, but they teach me a lot of hacks, 100%.

So Melanie, just as a sort of final note from you, us as leaders and people who are building businesses, trying to create the future. And my mission really is to empower business owners with good information and confidence to make good decisions in building their business. Because I do believe that business owners with the resources that they have can ultimately impact the world in a greater way than probably any other group. And so trying to incorporate that, to say, listen, we know the next generation is coming up. What are, what are a few things that maybe we haven't talked about? How can we prepare to really succeed with the next level of employees coming up the food chain around, around business.

In particular and business connections? The biggest trend I'm seeing Is a broad based interest in sustainability, social innovation, the planet, the climate, and an ethical. Not that every businesses are necessarily unethical, but like this crop of students has a real interest in solving what are called wicked problems or world problems around global issues. Sustainability, sustainability issues, planetary problems. So I think we have to be mindful of that in a business sense that, that seems to be the. That's something that they care a lot about as the planet, the health of the planet, climate change. And they're trying to problem solve those things in sustainable ways and innovative business ways. So I think probably encouraging. And I. And then I think beyond that, recognizing that innovation comes in many shapes and sizes and that students have a lot of ideas in their heads that are going to be bringing them to all of our tables.

Yeah. And that they have been a way more innovative generation than my generation. You know, like we were on the bubble of it. But man, if you look at the technological changes that have happened since I was a kid, you're going, wow. And yeah, I know my grandfather, he experienced color tv, you know, and the first car and yeah, that's innovative. But now you've got phones, computers and everything in your pocket and you know, microchips in like the world is becoming a pretty incredible space and the technology is advancing so quickly.

Yes. And that with the idea of globalization. And I think many of them are better traveled at the age they're at than I was at their age. And so I think they have a better sense of a world like applying what they might want to do in a business sense on a global level. Like globalization is really mattering to them in a way that I think we didn't, we didn't get there. So I think that's important probably for employers and for business owners to know. But I, for me, the takeaways are that they're. I know I said there's a lower resilience, but they're more resilient than we think. If we can give them the time and space, they're going to be thinking about large global problems. Their cynicism about whether the world's going to make it is maybe combated by their really creative solutions to that. So they, I think they have the ideas if we can let them run with that a little bit.

That's amazing. I love that. So I think we can both agree, you know, the next generation that is coming up through the education system, they approach things a little bit different. But man, they've got all the skills and resources to, you know, to put me in A home and feel comfortable that we're in good hands. You know what I mean?

Yes, exactly. They're. We're going to be fine. The kids are all right. We're going to be fine. And you're going to meet more of them in March because you're back at Zoski College doing a little bit more mentorship, which I'm so grateful for. So they're already excited. The students that met you in the fall were just like, he's coming back. And I said, yes, but the students in this micro credential that haven't met Bob yet get first crack. But we are definitely. We've got some excitement here, but more mentorship through Zosge College and Trent, for your, for your partnership with us. So we're really grateful for that.

Amazing. And again, you brought something up that I think is important is that as we're building businesses and communities, mentorship and guidance is just more sought after than some of the older generations were. Like, we'll figure this out. We'll put our heads down. And this generation is like, tell us more. How can we be better? You know, it is. It's pretty powerful.

It's so powerful. They really. I don't think anyone suggested I get a mentor when I was 20, but just having a chance to talk to someone about their ideas is amazing. So mentorship is a huge part of this.

Amazing. Melanie, thank you so much for joining today. This has been incredible. Again, I know that we're in good hands with the next generation. Even better hands. Knowing that you're helping mold those minds as they come out of the educational platform. Guys, this has been the Wealthy Entrepreneur podcast. We talked about the next generation coming through and the success that we know they're going to have, but they approach things slightly different. We as employers and business owners just need to approach that in a different way and ultimately probably in a better way and learn from them because really they're going to be creating a better world than we were ever going to be able to create. So super powerful. Make sure that you check out the resource. I think I mentioned Radical Candor as a book. Check that out. We'll put the link in here as well. Make sure you check out our website. Goro cpa, ca. We're here to help support in any way we can. And if you want to talk about how to build a team, look at our million dollar year CA program. We're excited to have new members come in so we can help support them, understand the mechanics of what the building out employment for the next generation is if there's something you enjoyed about this, leave a comment, Drop a like make sure you share this podcast out with anyone you think would be benefiting. If you're looking at building a business with the next generation, or you have friends who are building that out to understand a little bit more about what that generation looks like, make sure you share this out. Make sure you're following this podcast. We are releasing a new episode every single week. I've had the pleasure to have Melanie here, which was incredible, but we'll have another episode coming out next week, so make sure you follow so you get that notification. Guys, it's been an absolute pleasure to have you here today. This is the Wealthy Entrepreneur Podcast. It's been a pleasure. I look forward to seeing you guys again next week. Thank you so much.