Profitable Pivot: Navigating Business Transformations for Maximum Financial Impact with Jennifer Kem Part 1

When you package and you message anything, a person, a product, a company, a country, even that everything actually is a brand. Even those of you listening right now, you are a brand. Whether you want to be a brand or whatever definition of brand you're thinking of, we all have a personal reputation. Personal brand is not just for entrepreneurs. It's actually for all of us.

Okay, So I. Jen, I am so thrilled. I know we get to connect a couple times a year. I've never. Enough, to be honest. And you're always one of the most intriguing people. Like, you always capture my interest in such an incredible way. And you just have such a. An attractive aura to you, where I'm like, I need to hear and learn from Gen Cam more all the time. But for our audience, who I'm hopeful that they've. A lot of them have connected with you, followed you, and if they aren't, they should be. But could you give a little bit of a story of how Gen Chem came to be?

Yeah. Well, I'm grateful to be here, Bob. I feel the same about you. You're one of my favorite guys who is geeky and smart and engaging and all the things that most people don't really love, but they know they need you really, really bad. And so I just think that the way that you carry not your. Not just yourself, but your knowledge and your experience that helps entrepreneurs not just make money, but think through a wealthy lens how to set yourself up well financially. All those pieces I just really admire. And. And. And I'm impressed with the way that you carry yourself, too. So thank you so much for having me. So. Oh, gosh. Okay, so about me, long winding yarn, so I'll try to keep it brief. I grew up in a really tiny town in Hawaii, and in that town, literally 2,000 people lived. And so I truly used to ask God, the heavens, you know, the. The mountains and the ocean, like, hey, why did the aliens drop me down here? Like, why am I so different? And I was. Because I felt so different. I always found a lot of solace in reading. And so I would just spend every day that I could as a young person in the library. And so I think that devouring of knowledge led me to realizing that how I felt in the world versus, like, what the world really was. I was just so curious about how that worked. And so, interestingly enough, when I was in second grade, you know, the teacher always asks, what do you want to be when you grow up? And all the boys were like, I want to be a doctor, a policeman. A firefighter. And all the girls were saying they wanted to be a nurse, a teacher, a mom. And I stood up and I said, I would like to be the general counsel of Coca Cola International. That was my answer in second grade. So I think if you can just get an idea again, tiny little town, little school, nuns or our teachers, here I am, this weird little alien saying stuff like that. So if that gives you any idea of the way I look at the world and go, ooh, what does that even mean? And I didn't become a lawyer, but I did become somebody who became completely fascinated with why people make decisions, especially through the lens of consuming things, right? And so that, by definition, is branding, is building brands, is. Is understanding why when you package and you message anything, a person, a product, a company, a country, even, that everything actually is a brand. Even those of you listening right now, you are a brand. Whether you want to be a brand or whatever definition of brand you're thinking of. We all have a personal reputation is really what it comes down to. And because I became so obsessed with that, that's really, you know, that's how I navigated through school. And then after college, I had my first job with Ogilvy, which is the biggest and probably one of the most famous advertising agencies in the world. And kind of tracking back to second grade year old Jen, you know, I didn't become the head lawyer for Coca Cola International, which is the general counsel, but what I did become is a very entry level copywriting intern at Ogilvy. And it was in that job that I really started to learn about the power of brand and how not just companies, but again, leaders and everybody learned how to influence. And by the way, again, I'm a dinosaur. I'm a seasoned chicken. I grew up in a time we didn't have cell phones, you know, and we had pagers, you know, like. So if that ages me, y' all might be following that. But that was like. It hasn't changed. Is my point is like, my background in terms of, like, understanding brand, understanding psychology, understanding how people make decisions, understanding that everybody has a brand, and taking that through my corporate career. And I ended my corporate career as an employee, if you will, as the head of business markets for Verizon, where I brought really big products to market. The predecessor to Netflix was my. My last job, my last employable position before I decided that I wanted to go and try things on my own. And I know we'll probably talk about values later, but it's mainly because I realized that my ambition didn't also include autonomy. And I had two young daughters at the time, as I was rapidly moving up the hierarchy, if you will, the ladder in the corporate world. But I was, I was really doing well professionally, but personally I wasn't so satisfied. I felt pretty. I felt like it was just so hard. And so I decided to bet on myself and leave and started a bunch of companies. But today I am the founder of Master Brand Institute, where all we're obsessed with is understanding how personal product and company brands shape culture and change and disrupt the status quo. And so that's kind of. I honestly, it's the short version, so there's a lot there, but I've heard.

The elaborated version and I like them both. They both are incredible. You know, it's funny, Jen, you. First off, it's funny that even though you were talking about being general counsel for Coca Cola, the fact that you identified with one of the largest brands out of the gates in grade two, isn't that. That's kind of interesting, you know, like probably one of the strongest brands in history, Coca Cola. So that's pretty cool. And, you know, you were talking about, as you're coming through things being challenging. I know. I've spent a lot of time with the local university over the last six months or so, and you talked about really finding your, your brand awareness, maybe some of your passion in that sort of entry level. It's funny because some of these students were coming back and saying, you know, Bob, should we just start on our own or should we, you know, go learn from somebody? And I'm like, go learn. You know, go, go learn what you like, what you don't like. Find something that you, you know, you attach your passion to with maybe someone else's. Learn from them, learn from their mistakes and what they've created, and then go do your own thing, you know, Anyway.

Anyway, I totally agree with that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway, super interesting. Thank you for sharing your story. And again, I think we've had the opportunity for maybe the last dozen or so years to be connected, and it's always amazing to see sort of the next project that you're working on, and we're going to talk about a project in a few minutes. But the one thing that you've caught my attention with and you've completely captured it right now is all around personal branding. And I believe, and I want your take on this, but I believe that personal branding is maybe one of the most powerful sort of stories and messages that we can focus on as entrepreneurs right now. What's your take on that? And you know what really inspired you to focus on personal brand and helping people with personal brand?

Yeah, you know, again, because of my storied career in, in really just doing this, so I like to tell people that I'm really not that good at anything else but really understanding brand and, and, and its relationship to even business and how you can, how you need to prioritize because if you, if you rolled back the clock about 20 years, it was way more important to build a product and maybe a company, right? So it's kind of like, I'll use an example most people recognize, which is like Apple, right? You've got Steve Jobs. He's the personal brand. He's dynamic. He's kind of a jerk too. I mean, that's kind of a thing. But people still wanted to work for him because his vision and his ideas were so compelling that even if he wasn't the most pleasant human to like, work for, you were really impressed. And you wanted to be part of that. You wanted to be a caboose attached to that super bullet train, right? And so you think about 20 years ago, it was really focused on the product, right? You know, he disrupted cameras, he disrupted the music industry, he disrupted the way that we personal compute. You know, he, he did that. And then Apple became, you know, when we talked about Coca Cola, it actually does has the, have the most domestic, global, rather global brand equity score, the highest ever Coca Cola. And the reason is because you can get Coca Cola to Timbuktu even though you can't get WI Fi yet. So that's like the thing there. So Apple is a great example of like a technology idea, right, that disrupted things. And Steve Jobs is a perfect example of like one of the first personal brand impacts to a product and a company brand. Because before that, like, okay, you knew Microsoft, you knew Bill Gates, I call it like Bill and, and, and Steve, right? But you didn't know the CEO or the founder of Coca Cola. You didn't know the founder of, well, I shouldn't say Ford Motor Company. That's pretty obvious. But you didn't know the founder of Chevrolet, right? Or, you know, some of the big huge brands. And so obviously as technology evolved, right, we moved from what I call the master brands controlling consumer behavior, which is, you know, through advertising, through traditional means, TV, etc. But then when social media came online now it became like, anybody can advertise whatever they want, right? And that transition back to, you know, your question of like, why is personal brand so Important now it's is because that's where the world is, is people trust people now. And it's also a very scary time. And I, because, and I say that not to scare any of you listening is like the deepfake is real, right? You can create any message, you can create any image now and it's not fully vetted, right? So this is why it's so important as a human being, if you have a message and you want to let other people know it, you have all the technology at your fingertips. Now that's the good news, the bad news, or actually no, it's not the bad news. The opportunity is that if you can show yourself using these tools, people will trust it more because they don't know what to believe anymore. Right? We've become unfortunately, and I'm hoping, I hope we encourage more people like us, like even these young students at university that you've been talking to, to talk about authentic real things and show yourself. And, and when I say show yourself, it doesn't even just mean your yourself like your hum, you know, it's helpful if you do, but more about like what are the frameworks that you are finding were working for you even as a young person, Right? As a young person, you're navigating life right now. A great way to start building a personal brand is to quote your mentors, quote things you're learning, attaching it to a life lesson or a career lesson or a business lesson. We don't have to overcomplicate it. And I think that's why, whether we like it or not, this is the world we live in. The, the personal brand is the most important brand asset that you have because we also live in a world of, because of the opportunity like anybody. I mean you can be 16, start a YouTube channel and make a million dollars if you put the right effort and skill set and energy into it. So even companies, they're struggling, right with how do we recruit great talent, how do we recruit. What we'll talk about later is what I call unicorns. How are we going to get the people who were willing to giddy up and go with Steve Jobs to create the next wave forward? Those young people probably, I'm sure Bob, you can tell me if this is true or not, but I hear from young people all the time, is this the world I do have to live in? Do I have to dance on TikTok to be relevant? Do I have to like become a great public speaker? Do I have to learn, you know, and I'm like, actually, no. Some of these companies just need your talent. They need your talent. And companies are learning how to adapt because they know without those personal brand skills that they're going to die too. Right? And we need the big companies too. We don't just need the solopreneur, we don't just need the lifestyle entrepreneur. Those are fine. And that, that's up your alley. Fantastic. You need to fill the personal brand, too. But guess what? If you work in a company, you have a personal brand too. You have a reputation, and that gives you more gravitas. It allows you to get paid more, it allows you to be thought of for promotions, it allows you to jump ship and go to another company that pays you a lot more, you know, and so personal brand is not just for entrepreneurs. It's actually for all of us. Right?

So 100%. Yeah. You know what, it's so funny when you put that in perspective, you know, even reflecting on some of these conversations with the university students, they would say, you know, what did you do younger that sort of kicked off your career? And without really acknowledging personal brand in like, as a phrase, thinking about the fact that ever since I was younger, I was always connecting with people and I was always treating people with care, with kindness, and I would never compromise integrity. And that was just something, you know, you were dreaming about Coca Cola and I was dreaming about how I build integrity in my life, you know, and it's funny how those things continue to carry on into our lives. And, you know, a lot of the things that I was saying was really about creating my personal brand and my own identity that I wanted to share with the world. And, you know, now when you're putting a label on it, I'm going, that's exactly what maybe kicked off some of the early success in my career.

It really is. It's like. And your identity is something that shifts. And based on what you just said, Bob, you know, I talk about how we decide things is what I call being values driven. So I'm going to kind of just plant that a little bit right now because you're so absolutely right. Not just. This is not just my framework. This, this is research that says that our past experiences obviously shape and model for us who our identity as we grow is. Our present self is a reflection of that initial identity. The Bob, you described, the Jen who was obsessed with Coca Cola International. Right. And then all of my life experiences in between that moment and today, and then my future self, the person that I want to work still to become because we all, you know, our greatest journey on this earth is our purpose, right? It's like we're chasing purpose, really. And that vision for our lives are the vision for what we could create. And so when you mix the past, the present and the future, that's actually the three ingredients of your identity. Not just the past or not just the future, but actually the three. And it's going to evolve because you're going to evolve. And I think people get stuck and, well, if I map out my identity now, am I going to get stuck there? And I'm like that, no. Or maybe that's a choice. But I want to invite you to think about, like, me moving from corporate to entrepreneurship. That was an identity shift. And when you have an identity shift, it's scary, right? I mean, that's, that's human psychology. That's why branding is. It is a science. It's a. It's a study of human behavior. That's why I get so, like, excited about it. Because it's not just about logos, icons, you know, your website, yes, those are things, but those are really more machines or mechanics of the branding. It's like branding is actually more about identity, it's more about behavior, it's more about messaging than it is about those other things. Because if you start to get clear on those pieces, then you'll build the right things that showcase you will choose the right platforms to show off your personal brand. Like, you know, I hear from people, seriously, like, young people, some of them do not, they like to watch TikTok, but they don't want to make TikToks, right? And they're like, Do I have to do TikTok? And I'm like, I'm like, what do you want to do? Like, what are you going to do in the next three years? What are you thinking about? And they're like, well, you know, I really want to be part of a, like, you know, a startup team that it's like, we want to build this SaaS, an app, you know, software service app that helps people with our. With a loneliness issue. Like, I'm writing this story in one of, in my book about how they want to build this thing that addresses loneliness, which is perfect because this generation is struggling so badly because we live in a world where it appears, perceptions appear, that it is solo platform success that is revered.

Now.

That's true, unfortunately, and that's why we actually have to shift it to go. We're using the individual personal brand platforms to actually gather people together. That's the next Shift. It has to be. Otherwise we're going to fall, frankly, victim to what I call the three A's. The. You've heard me say this, you know, artificial intelligence, automation, and the Asians problem. And I say Asians because I can say that I'm Filipino, so I can say that. But what I really mean by that is outsourcing. So it's like this idea of belonging, right? Humans need to belong. We thrive on gathering. Even if we're introverted or appear introverted, we need other humans. And so it's just becoming more and more isolated. So people are afraid. That's another reason people are afraid to build their personal brand, because they're like, I don't know if I want to. Like, I don't want to keep up with the social media Joneses. Right? I don't want to have to. I want my life online or on social to reflect my real self. And it feels like the people who are put on pedestals there are not like, me. And I'm like, it's only because you're not choosing to change the narrative, and we can change that narrative together. I'm welcome you and inviting you to do that. If you're listening. Like, we need you to. Like, we need people to know who you are, if you have something to say. And you know, social media is great for narcissism because if you are a narcissist, you're not afraid. You're Teflon. You know what I mean? Like, it just bounces off of you. And so be careful not to assume that that's who you need to be when you're deciding to build your personal brand. That is not. That's just because they're. They're being left alone. Right? It's kind of like, cool. So they're, like, doing their thing, whatever. I'm not going to judge it. Certainly not my vibe. But I understand why it's so powerful for them. I always get curious about, like, why everyday people who actually want to change the world are frustrated with some of the things that don't work in the world. Why you think you have to be superficial in any way to be good at social media to build your personal brand. I think it's. It's a fascinating thing. I'm even still unfurling. I know it's not real. That's why. So I'm kind of like, even working on the way that I help people understand that it's not real. So though.

Yeah. And you know what? Like, I'm. Although we're somewhat active on social. Like, we're definitely not to the extreme that a lot of people are, but we're. We're definitely from a corporate standpoint and even a personal. Because my team is posting a lot of the content. We're doing it on a daily basis. But I'm not a huge fan of participating in that either. Like, it just doesn't necessarily go with my personality. However, when I'll say, and I know we're aligned on this too, is if you find something, if you find that purpose that's more meaningful for you, that you're like, what is the vehicle? Which is what I think social media is. It's just a vehicle to share that message and that impact with the world. And sometimes you just. You go, yeah, I'm not really huge on doing this particular thing either, but if. If it fulfills my passion and my mission, then I'm in. And sometimes we have to get a little uncomfy doing things we don't want to do to accomplish what we really want to accomplish. And, yeah, I'm so with you. It's, you know, the other thing that, again, spending a little bit of time with some of the university students, I came to realize and through discussions with faculty, it's almost like that next generation feels like their voice isn't as meaningful or that, you know, people aren't really interested in hearing from them and if they don't show up, no one will notice sort of thing. And that's maybe part of the loneliness that's coming out. But, you know, I think the importance of finding that passion so that you can realize who your identity is or what your identity is and, and what that personal brand needs to be shaped into. I think that's important, isn't it?

Yeah, absolutely. I'm a big fan of staying weird, staying, you know, staying awkward in that, you know, I think people think, okay, I'm not being heard. My voice is not being heard. You know, the best way to be heard, too, is rally a couple people with you, you know, meaning, hey, let's. Let's go and try something on. An experiment of something we, let's say two or three of us really care about. And it can be anything, right? But I like to give people really easy, like, next steps. How do you figure? Like, I'm like, try something on, say, you know, for the next 30 days, just talk about something. And if you need two binkies or pacifier, people, like, you know, do it. And even this podcast, Bob, Podcast is a form of great content. It's actually a form of social media. People don't realize, right? And so this is a perfect example of doing something that's your vibe. You actually are really my, my impression of you has always been you're so genuinely interested in other people. You're such a great listener and you're sharp, you know, you know your stuff in your, you know, in the area of expertise that you have in your career or you know, your business and you have a forward thinking view on all of it. And I think that if you don't like social media, this was like one of the perfect vehicles that, that you're demonstrating that. And I think that for young people, midlife people who are going, what's next for me? You know, it's anybody who's in this pivot point, right? Or wondering like, what's next for them? You know, try on vehicles that, that really fit your vibe. Don't try that first because already that's going to be challenging because it's new. Don't try to figure out the algorithms of meta or, or that'll make you crazy, right? That'll make you nuts, right? So I think too, we try to over, we go to like five steps ahead when it comes to personal brand too. Instead of going, what's my next thing that I could do that would give me the courage because I think even more important than even telling your stories or sharing your expertise. Interesting. Like I'm like, you actually have to get confident first. It's like going to the gym, right? You're only going to get the muscles you're looking to get. You're going to only get split sculpty if you do the thing consistently, right? And so same thing with whatever is new to you, especially building a personal brand because again, you're faced with a lot of fears. You're faced with like, oh, will people accept me, this person that I'm becoming? What if people call me? What do they call me out? What if they're trolls? Where if all those things I'm like, yeah, that's going to happen, the bigger you get, they're going to do that. Because that's the other problem. Again, blessing and a curse, right? Online and social media is there are going to be trolls the more your voice is put out there because that's the world we live in. So if you're going to allow that to get in the way, all I ask is like wherever you are, let's say in a job or even at university, it's like your personal branding in the Classroom matters. I bet you like, if you're the person that's always with the professor, trying to figure stuff out, asking questions, they're going to remember you. And that's what really personal brand is about, is are you making an impact? Are you leaving an impression? Right. So when Bob, even when you open and you said, whenever you and I get to connect a couple times a year that you said, like, I have this aura, I'm like, that is such, that's such a compliment. Because it means to me that I'm making an impression and it's, I'm doing it naturally because I worked on it back to like on the gym, getting less fearful of being in rooms of, of speaking on stage. This all happened over a period of time. It didn't just like magically happen. So it's that impression also that you're leaving with people is your personal brand.

And like authentically you too. Right? It's. Which is, which is wonderful. Okay, so if we're thinking of the top tips. So for the entrepreneur that's out here, what are the top few things that people could focus on now to improving their personal brand?

Mm. Mm. Well, first of all, okay, so I actually have a framework, of course, because I do everything through these research based frameworks on purpose because I think it helps. And so I'm going to kind of go through what I say, like six kind of questions you might want to answer. So the first is, you know, what are your values right now? Right. And I mentioned it a little bit earlier. What values? My, my definition of values are my, my, my definition, values is based on how you actually are behaving today. Okay. People think values are what I wish I was. And I'm like, no, that's. You don't want to start there. You want to start with like in the past. What were the violations that happened to you? A couple like canon key ones. And they can be big T or small T, trauma type of things. But it can be just as simple as when Sister Fatima, when I said I wanted to be the general counsel of Coca Cola, she. I thought I was like the best student in class and she sent me to the back of the room. And I still remember that moment. It was like it changed for a while. The way I saw my ability to express something interesting. And she thought I was just trying to act up and use words that didn't make any sense to anybody else. That's. I wanted to give you guys that example because that was a violation that I remember. So I go, what are Some of the things that has really affected the way that I've either made big moves or that I've actually stopped or worried that if I did things. So that's an example. The next piece is where your present self is, which is your voids. Your voids. And what I mean by voids are when you look around you, all great ideas came from a gap, not from something that already is here. Okay, I'm going to say that again. Every great idea that has ever changed the world or every person has filled a void. Okay? So in your present self, ask yourself, is there a void? Like, I was talking about that young man that I'm working with, with his. His buddies at university around, they want to build this loneliness app. And I was like, they're like, we're lonely. That's a current void, right? And we want to address that. And we want to address it through creating. Now, they could address it through working at a company. They could address it by pursuing marriage and family counseling and counseling, you know, become a therapist. There's a lot of ways they could address it, but. So it's not about yet what they're going to do. It's more like, what's the void that's really making them want to pursue something? And then the third piece is the future self, which is your vision. And that's really about what is the big dream for you. If 10 years from now, you opened a letter from today's person, what would that letter say? What have you accomplished? What have you done? And what have you also faced and challenged? So I always say, start there, interestingly, because to me, if you get clear on those three things, those are the three core psychological behaviors that motivate us and make us move forward and also keep us stuck. So we need to know what those are. So those values, number one. Number two is what is the voice of your brand? I'm going to give you a free gift at the end of this podcast that'll help you figure that out. I call it your brand archetype influence. It's based on the psychology of Carl Jung. And for example, I am a ruler explorer lover. You're going to find out your own mix when you take this particular assessment. And the ruler voice, being my dominant voice, is all about owning my expertise, owning that I actually know things, right? Like, my husband got me a shirt that says, I drink and know things. You know, like Tyrion from Game of Thrones, right? I mean, I am, you know, that's. That's me. And I've really Had to work on my voice in terms of my writing voice and my speaking voice and being consistent that when you come and see me when you met me 12 years ago. What I hope, Bob, is that if I've improved at all in terms of being able to express myself, that you've noticed that I've stayed the same in terms of the way I talk. And I think that's one of the ways you're testing whether or not you're really showing up as yourself. So it's brand archetypes, which is number two. And when I. I know you said easy steps. The cool thing is, guys, you literally are gonna get the whole reports. So you're gonna see, you're gonna prompts. There's gonna be, you know, stuff you can do. The third piece is, what are your stories now? Stories are what move the world at the end of the day. But also, I'm a big believer in telling the right stories. I am a big believer in authenticity and transparency are not the same thing. Cause I think that's another fear that comes up for people. They're like, I gotta spill my whole beans. I gotta tell all my skeletons in order for the people think I'm authentic. And I'm like, that's actually a lie. We are allowed to keep private our lives because, again, this is a world where the kimono is so open all the time, right? Like, everybody wants to know your business. And so I have a better way to think about stories, I think. And that is right now. I bet you can think of at least two, what I call authority stories and two approachability stories. And so an approachability story is a story that is like what makes you regular, if you will. You know what I mean? Or regular to your audience. Right? So, for example, if you're a student and you are wanting to rally other young people to deal with this loneliness epidemic, right? Your approachability stories. I am you. I am a person like you. I've had dark thoughts. I've wondered. I've tried therapy. I tried to talk to my parents. I tried to talk to my friends. I still feel like I need a mixture of things. That's an approachability story. Okay? The authority story for that person is he has. Let's. In this case, this is a real thing. In this case, he is a software. Software engineering degree graduate. So he has this background in coding and whatnot. So that's an authority piece. Like, hey, I've got skills. They're still newish, but at least I have skills. And then I have a reason which is my approachability story. I. I feel like we focus on, like, again, every story under the world. I'm like, no, only pick the stories that matter for the big deal that you want to make, which is the next piece, which is, what's your offer? In this case, it's an app, right? For loneliness. So if you're thinking about an offer, and when I say offer friends, if you're going, I just like, I don't even know if I want to build a business. I don't even know if I want to leave my job. I'm saying, like, for example, if you have a job, maybe you're working on a project and you're trying to figure out how you can really make a big difference in that project and be frankly seen by your boss as a superstar, right? Personal brand superstar. Pick that project as your offer and start to build out that piece of it. If it's an app like these, I was going to call them these kids, they're adults. But you know, again, these kids are working on, you know, same thing. The offer is the app. It's that simple. Now it's like more like, okay, in the app, what is the outcome? What are the results that their dream users will be able to gain? And then. And the offer might be you. The offer might be, hey, I want to, I want to speak on stage and I want to get more clients by speaking on stage. You're the offer. The personal brand itself is the offer. Great, okay. Do you even know how to communicate or message that to somebody who would hire you to be on stage? And then lastly, lastly. But this is not kind of linear, you guys. It's more like, I'd call it like a synergistic kind of thing. They're not linear steps. They're more like always going, what's this? What's this, what's this? But the last one is like, do you actually know the real problem you're solving? Because a lot of people have their dreams, but their fantasies are really what they have. And people buy into real problem solving solutions. And so even your personal brand, if it's like, hey, Bob, I wish more people would talk about how accounting and bookkeeping is not boring. It can actually bring you immense wealth and it doesn't have to be scary, right? That is a real solution that most entrepreneurs need because they're not good at what Bob is good at. Right? But we grew up. One of the violations of growing up is we all heard we should go H in our block, right? To get our taxes Done. That's a perfect example of a void. So if I'm an entrepreneur that wants to hire Bob's firm, first of all, I want to, I want to believe in Bob's methodology, which is again, part of that offer piece. And I want, and it helps a lot that I like Bob because. And that Bob has been able to show himself as. He's not some static, scary, boring, bookkeeper, cranky, old Ebenezer Scrooge type of guy. Right. He's actually quite affable. He's a family man. These are approachability stories that Bob has. Right. And that when I sit down and I listen to him, whether it's on YouTube, on his podcast, or sitting next to him on a table, he talks about finance in a way that I actually get. And I feel like that's part of what Bob's brand is. Right. So the problem he's solving is, on the surface, it looks like he's solving our accounting issues, but what he's really doing is making me feel less scared about my money and make me feel really proud of the money that I've helped out, that I've been able to create. And then now he's helping me safeguard it for my children. That's kind of how I now I can now what? That's a bigger problem that he gets to then amplify. So I gave you a framework right there and inside of it, what I hope is like that you, you kind of took down what I said and then just answer some of those questions first. It you're not going to do it in a 30 minute session. Okay. It's more like you got to work on it, but that's a good start.

Oh man, you always make me think way too much. I kind of even daydreamed here for a minute. Thinking about all these different things is what you do every time. And I love it. And thank you for that. And again, I feel like the importance of personal brand has never been stronger. And you know, with some of the other pieces I want to touch on, you know, not only is it important for you to define who you are and what it is that you're trying to accomplish, but also to share that with people who might also identify with your personal brand and want to help push you forward and align with you. And, you know, so powerful question here for you is about the messaging that maybe goes in external and also internal in an organization. So the majority of our listeners are small business owners, small, medium sized business owners, even talking about, you know, some of the challenges I feel like a large challenge that many of our listeners are is going from the solopreneur to building a team and starting to break through that, because we know Solopreneurs are like 99% of all business owners and the 1% that continue to bust through. It's challenging. It's a risk. But personal brand and bringing people with you is so important.