Sukhi Alberga’s Journey: From Law Practice to Legal Tech

When I was building it, the advantage of being a lawyer and kind of building something that's needed is I was able to sometimes be in the junior put on my junior hat, put my senior lawyer hat, put on what would my clients think? The other thing that I'm also looking into when raising capital is making sure you're partnering up with the right people that have the same motivation that really believe in what you're doing. Let your clients and customers speak for you. Don't speak for yourself. Let them do it. Foreign.

Welcome to the Wealthy Entrepreneur Podcast. I am your host, Bob Goverow. It is fantastic to have you here with me today. Listen, this is the place where we dissect the elements that contribute to entrepreneurial success, from our mindset to our leadership to profits and revenue in our business. This episode is somewhat special. I'm bringing someone in that I've had the opportunity to collaborate with to a certain extent. They actually came and pitched me their idea and I thought it was extremely powerful. A very incredible professional person and I'm excited for her to share her story with you. Going from running a law firm, multidisciplinary practice just like we have, to going into the tech space and trying to innovate and the legal industry and legal space with a new tool and solution that will help so many people and so many practitioners create efficiency. It's incredible. This episode is going to be called From Law to Tech with Suki Dylan Elberger. Now she has maybe just to give a little bit of context, like I mentioned, she was a lawyer. She founded a firm, very innovative firm. It was on really on corporate and business related law. Suki is the founder of Bridging Legal Solutions, which was her law firm, but has recently founded a new tech company called Counsel your Docs. We're going to hear all about that in this episode. But really what Counsel your Docs is is it's a new, innovative legal solution that helps people create shareholder agreements. We're going to talk about some of the benefits of shareholder agreements in here, but really to go from being a female in the legal space, the legal space that doesn't change drastically from day to day, month to month, year to year, it's pretty stringent on any of the tech that they allow in. She's worked through that, through very innovative processes. She's got approvals in all the right ways. She's a very high integrity individual. You'll just fall in love with her. She's such a wonderful human. And so what we're going to talk about Today is her journey from being a legal professional into being a tech startup, which is now in full launch stage with so many behind the scenes exciting things that I can't even tell you about because we've got a really great relationship. She shares some insights with me. But what we will do is we will kick this off. And once again, I'm so excited to bring my friend Suki Dylan Alberga into the episode. Suki, so great to have you here today.

Oh, Bob, thank you so much for giving me the opportunity and a privilege to be on your podcast. I am a devout listener, so I'm excited to be here.

I love that so much. And you know what? You and I have had the opportunity to connect a few times now. And first off, you're such a wonderful, kind human, and so, you know, being able to connect with wonderful people like you is just a privilege for me. And I know you've been doing so many incredible things. So maybe as a part of kicking this off, if you want to share part of your journey, because I know you've kind of taken a turn and you're on a new journey now, but maybe share what got you into this space, where you started from and where you are now.

Awesome. Yeah, thank you so much. Love to do that. It has been kind of a crazy roller coaster ride, to be honest with you. I started my multidiscipline practice in business law and health law, where we help businesses to, you know, start their businesses or help them with any kind of legal issues that may have employment contracts and things like that. And so we provide accounting services, HR services, and legal services together. We're the first multidiscipline practice in Canada. And I'm licensed both in Ontario and New Brunswick, and I can also serve service clients across Canada as well. So being part of that journey and also being part of the Canadian Bar Association's Legal Future Subcommittee, I was a member and I came up with the Atlantic Roundtable, which was the first roundtable that had all four chief justices on our roundtable, which was first time in history that happened. So that was kind of cool to do that. But always been kind of an innovator. How do I push the envelope? How do I keep doing things different? So when I was in that Canadian Bar association, like Legal Futures Committee, we were doing a lot of different podcasts and roundtables talking about modernization of the justice system, innovation and technology. So we would have professors from different law schools that were experts in technology, legal tech, individuals, privacy, data experts, and lawyers. So I was in that conversation space. And it was not only just not in Canada, but in North America too. Like, what's happening? What's the pulse? What's going on? And I felt like, especially after Covid, there was this dialogue where all of a sudden, you know, law firms had to shut down during COVID right? And senior lawyers and everybody had to kind of figure out, well, how do we practice law? How do we still service law when we haven't done anything like this before? To be completely honest with you, in Canada, we haven't had much innovation in over 30 years, right? And all of a sudden, Covid kind of pushed it, you know, and then other tech companies started to say, hey, wait, there's a gap here in the legal industry and how can we service them? Well, they came in and certain, I think, tent companies out there and founders started to put out this dialogue to the public saying, oh, well, you know what all lawyers do is push paper and charge a lot of money and AI is going to take over and get rid of the lawyers. And that rubbed me the wrong way because it was like, oh, it about education. We've got to teach and, and educate the clients out there, the public out there, what exactly do we do and why our knowledge is important in helping them and serving them. So I kind of. My feathers got a little bit of ruffles. And so I reached out to a good friend of mine who is in the legal tech space in the States. And so I said to him, I said, hey, Zach, listen, I want shout out to Zach, and hey, Zach, I want to get your insight. I want to build something. I have an idea. How do I go about building it? What platforms can I use out there to build the idea that I have? So he started naming, like Python and all these different softwares. And I think at the time he was just entertaining me. To be honest with you, he didn't take me very seriously. So I was like, okay. So I went in and I checked out and I was going through all the different platforms. And then I realized there was this one software that was working well for me. But when I got into a deeper dive to build what I wanted to build my idea, I found that I couldn't do it the way I wanted it. So then it was like, okay, so how do I manipulate the system to make it work for me? Well, I found myself learning encoding. So here I was, someone who didn't even know how to turn on the tv. When there's several remote controls to work with, founders help figuring out how to do encoding. So anyway, I pushed through because that's the type of person I am. Because usually when people say, no, you can't, I'll be like, why not? And so I was trying to figure out how to do this. And I remember one time one evening, this is what it called what they say about being, you know, entrepreneurs, right? You have to have the grit and the determination to do things. And I remember it was like, I think I was up 72 hours straight. And remember I have a law firm, I've got two twins that are seven year olds and like I'm just dealing with a lot of. But here I am pushing through, learning code. I know. And I'm thinking to myself, why isn't this working? Like there's some part of it, it's not working. And it was like one slash and I was like, oh my goodness, okay, like encoding can be that, like, you know, really precise, right? And. But it was a determination to do it. And once I finished it, I actually emailed it to my friend Zach and he, instead of emailing me back, he calls me up and he says to me, oh my God, what did you do? And I thought, oh no, I messed this up. And he said to me, no, no, no, you did computational contracts. You got to get yourself into a sandbox. And those listeners there, like, who are listening may not be familiar with sandbox. United States has a lot of law societies that have sandboxes where they allow tech companies to come in and provide different ways and solutions to providing legal services. And because they don't want you to provide legal advice, there's certain rules about that. You have to go into a sandbox and get an approval. So he said to me, are there any in Canada? And I said, well, I know there's one in bc, but I think they're starting one in Ontario. And that was like over 19 months ago. And I said to him, well, okay, I'll go, I'll apply. And he really encouraged me to do so. And ignorance is bliss. Had I known that the Law Society of Ontario's Access to Innovation had a advisory council of 13 members who are experts across Canada in again, in legal, tech, privacy and data law, business development, you name it. The cream of the crop, I probably wouldn't have applied. I think I would have been intimidated. But because I didn't know, I made my application and it was two stage process. And so when the first stage, they approved it, they basically said to me, you can actually scale this? And it was like, oh. And so essentially what my Platform is I started off with one product. Usually they usually say, when you're doing any kind of company or innovation idea, start with one product. And so it's a shareholder agreement which is critical for businesses and startups, as you wouldn't know and understand that, especially in succession planning, taxation and everyday business decision making. Right. And I know it's a complex one and I thought, how can I make it simpler and help the public and increase access to justice? Because I deal with a lot of businesses and sometimes they just maybe not have the funding for it or whatever and they just kind of need that extra guidance. And so I thought, okay, here's a way to innovate our industry and help the public to increase access of justice. So when I made the application, I was thinking, this is part of the law firm, this will be a service that can be provided, might be beneficial to everybody. Well, the Law Society of Ontario Sandbox was scratching their heads because they were like, we didn't expect a lawyer to come to us. So this is going to trigger a lot of rules. It gets complicated. It was a 19 month vetting process for me, in my experience. But I'm happy I went through the sandbox because again, you're getting all these expert advice on what to do and how to do it. It was a beta version in the beginning and then now we're market ready. And so, I mean, that in itself was beneficial, but it was a process and at the same time there was a lot of pushback and things to consider, which just made me motivated to build a quality product. Right. And so having said that, I didn't realize that I was actually going to enter in the startup space, not let alone the legal tech world. Right. That wasn't my intention, but I find myself falling there now. Right. So here I am. And that's been kind of my journey. It's like I kind of stumbled into it. I mean, it's exciting and it's scary at times, but it's also like I'm passionate about it. And so the second stream, when they said to scale up, it was like, okay, well how do I scale this? Oh my goodness. I can help law firms. I can help law firms, accounting firms who are helping other startups and businesses where they can train internally, their juniors or other lawyers that may not be familiar with shareholder agreements. And it's like an educational tool for them. Not only are they understanding the terms and what they're doing and how to do it, then a senior lawyer can oversee it and help them. It cuts half of the time, it's efficient for them. And it's also providing a quality agreement that can go before the courts and the judges and the same way for the public, one, I did it the same way. That way where the actual user themselves, whether they're the business owner or a founder, can go through it and really understand what their agreement says and what it entails. Because a lot of times what happens is clients tend to be like, oh, my lawyer is going to take care of this. You know, you sit there with them and you say, here's the contract. Okay, you understand it, great. I don't need to know more. And I'm like, I push back and go, no, no, no. I need you to understand these terms so you don't get yourself into a bind. And, and I can help you with other stuff that you need may need help. And if you do get into a blind, I can help you, but at least you can try and avoid it and focus on building your business and growing it and taking it to the next level. So for me, it was really important that clients and the public would understand what their agreement is and it. And it gets them to understand that and that's innovative about what we're doing and what. Counsel your docs.

Yeah. So amazing. Love the journey. I love the, the excitement of what the future holds as well. And I'm just going to take a brief pause there for a second and talk about shareholder agreements. And this will be maybe my, my small insight and love to get your take on it, but the shareholder agreements are one of those documents where I feel it's the, it's the sleep tester. You know, a lot of businesses when they, everything is good until it's not. And if you've got any sort of partners that are in the business, other shareholders, everything is good until it's not. Somebody wants out, somebody dies, there's any sort of conflict, how that all transpires, how people are compensated, how the relationship supposed to work. And, you know, one of the things that I always say to my clients is, you know, what we want to do with a shareholder agreement. The reason we want to have it in place, one, to deal with all those things, but two, to make sure that as this partnership or these, this collaborative effort comes into building a business, that we've got this here so that everybody understands how we're going to work together and be successful. And it's one of those proactive processes that I think can have a really strengthening component of a relationship, but also outline what happens when things don't go the way that you plan because it's very important for that. Suki, I don't know if you have anything to add to that, but it is a very, very important document.

Yes, absolutely. I totally 100% agree with you. It is a critical document. I think that's part of the reason why the LSO A2 I gave us approval. We're actually the third approved participant even though the first application. But having said that, they recognize the importance of what the platform does and how it can be beneficial to the public and to law firms. Right. In and in that. And so it is a complicated agreement, but it can be simplified and that's what the system does to help. And again, like when I was building it, the advantage of being a lawyer and kind of building something that's needed is I was able to sometimes be in the junior, like put on my junior hat, put my senior lawyer hat, put on what would my clients think? What do they want? And then as a business order, what do I need? Like I was able to angle it from every angle and, and really think it through and how can I build something that will be beneficial for them so they understand it? Because you're right, any scenarios can come up and when you have it written in a contract, it's really being proactive and should something like, you know, one of the shareholders is deceased, what's the succession planning? It's all in there, right? It's resolved. It's all in there. You're not going like, I mean sometimes I think to myself those businesses that don't have like they have a partnership or they have an arrangement where their corporation, they have shareholders, right. But they haven't put a shareholder agreement together. When something happens, they're scrambling. It's the stress. It's like the unknown, the uncertainty, the liability implications, the cost that it's going to cost them more. It'll cost them more in the after map rather than, you know, doing it up on the front. Right. Like, you know what I mean? And I think also like shareholder agreements usually when you go through a firm can cost you anywhere from, I don't know, like usually about 1500 to about $10,000 depending on where you're, what firm you're, you're, you're working on. And I, and I remember because with counsel, your docs or the public, I tried to keep it very reasonable price and because for me it was just innovating, right. Just doing something for the public. Right. And I had a business colleague of mine who reached out to me and who found out after the fact that I did counsel your docs. And he said, well, where were you a month ago? Why did you tell me about Ken see your doc? Because I went to a law firm and charged you $7,000. And I could have done this for 695. And I would say it was amazing. And I was, like, laughing with him, and I was like, well, listen, I was trying to help in this way, but I couldn't speak about it until, you know, they officially announced it through the sandbox. But, you know, it's. It's that benefit that's out there. You know, I. To be honest with you, I think my vision for counselor Dogs was to create an educational platform that would not only educate and provide critical thinking, but for. Especially for law firms, but for the public to understand what's exactly in their contracts, to have the comfort and peace in mind. Right. Of knowing that they've covered all their angles and everything, and just to increase innovation in the legal industry and promote that in. In a responsible way. I think that, to me, that was really important. And my vision for counselor docs is going to continue to be that foundation as we grow.

I love it. Yeah, I love it. I love the innovation, and especially in professional services firms where, you know, innovation, like you said, doesn't always happen every day. So it's lovely to see somebody take the initiative and the effort. Like 18 months, 19 months is not a short period of time to focus on this. So kudos to you for getting that up to the line and ready for market. So you've built essentially two different businesses in different industries. Would love, you know, your insights on what maybe some of the challenges have been in both of those instances and maybe how they're different, you know, professional services firm versus a SaaS platform, if we want to call it that, or a tech solution. What does that look like? And what insights could we share with people who are maybe going through the same journey?

Yeah, you know, I. I remember someone had said to me in the beginning, why did you get out of the gate going for, like, both at the same time? Why wouldn't you just start with the public and then go for the law firms? And I said to them, because I was innovating for so long and waiting for my approval, that when I finally could, I could just go out of the gate and then build on both. And I've had other incubator friends that have said to me, why did you even bother going through the sandbox? Right. Why did you do that? And I said, well, because I want it to be a collaborative thing in our profession to sort of say, hey to the public and even within our lawyer community in the bar that, hey, we can do this innovatively with our law societies, right? Like, we can collaborate and do this together. So that was one reason. And second reason was like, okay, well, I'm out there. I might as well bring both. Like, I'm like, go big or go home. Do it right. Don't think, just do. I mean, with strategy, of course, right? And think it through. But like, don't, you know, like, don't hesitate when you know you have something, especially when other experts, especially your, your clients, the ones you're dealing with, are coming back with you with positive feedback. I mean, there's a difference between superficial, you know, I'm here, here. Here's something that your listeners might be able to relate to when you are building two types of business or even building a business is when you get that initial feedback is somebody being superficial with you and being nice and doesn't want to, like, kind of, you know, you know, wants to encourage you, not discourage you, you know what I mean? Versus someone really interested, believes what you're doing and, you know, want to close a deal with you. Like, you got to know the difference. You got to be able to be able to kind of sense that out. And I think the more questions that someone asks you, the more engaging they are and really critical questions. That's usually a good indicator. But yes, they're very much interested. They do want to proceed with you. I have friends that are in Fintech and they've been doing it for 12 years and kind of recently landed five big banks. So they've been like, you know, my encouragers and my cheerleaders. And that's the first thing that they said to me, Suki, that's going to be a challenge for you. Make sure you know the difference. So that's one thing. I think the second thing too is marketing is really important and knowing your audience the way you should go about marketing it. In some cases, you have to hire the right marketing team, know the know to ask the right questions. Everybody there is not going to be able to guarantee you anything. But at the same time, you have to know, are they going to be able to deliver? And I'll be honest with you, the mistake I made once was I hired a marketer. They came highly recommended, but they just didn't understand my concept. And I felt like I didn't get the ROI dollars that I should have back. So I kind of felt like, oh, that was that uncomfortable growing pain as an entrepreneur and a business owner. So that the next time I interviewed 12 marketers instead, you know, and went through a lot of them and thought, okay, this person I think is going to work. And then also kind of say, you know what, I'm comfortable doing it for this period of time rather than the other period of time. And then sometimes old school methods work, like just networking, networking. Getting out there and getting in front of the right people and really knowing your target audience I think is very important. And then having a roadmap. Roadmap is another critical, important thing to have. Knowing where you are right now, where have you been, where you are right now and where you're going to go. And usually I think if you space it out to, you know, in stages like the first year than two to five years where you see yourself, I think that's a great place to start. And those things are really important. And be ready to pivot. Oh my God, you have to be ready to pivot. Because the feedback you get and sometimes when you think you're going to be going in one direction, you turn out like something else happens. I'll give you an example. For example, cancer docs is now being looked at by universities and faculty of law where they're saying, we could train. Use your tool to train new graduates. So that wasn't on my radar and that happened. So, you know, like you, you, you gotta be prepared to pivot and move as your business, it goes. And yeah, that's what I would say.

So thinking of, of roadmap, then let's say that you're at the current stage where you are. What does the future look like? What does the future roadmap look like? I know a lot of people who are in the tech space going through any sort of incubation center or, you know, founding a SaaS company. Typically we get into a point where we're looking to raise capital to really scale. Is that something that's on your radar? And what does that, what does the future look like?

Oh, absolutely, absolutely. It is cancer. Your dogs. In the next, I think three to six months, we're going to be putting on more products, more agreements and things like that are coming through a pipeline. So we'll be announcing this shortly. And also, yeah, raising capital. Right now, I think we're at the stage where we are waiting for us to get to a certain point where it does make sense to raise that capital. And I think prior to that, it's probably a good idea to let your company form and hold on to the equity as long as you can. And yeah, I'm bootstrapping it and then when it makes sense. And I think the other thing that I'm also looking into when raising capital is making sure you're partnering up with the right people that have the skill set, that have the same motivation, that really believe in what you're doing. And also not only having someone that is going to invest in you, but also finding those partnerships that are going to grow with you, whether it's mutually beneficial to those that you're serving because you want their business to succeed using your product too, right? At the same time, right. If they succeed, you succeed. So knowing to find that balance and knowing when. And I think finding those right fits are really important. And it's like any other relationship, right? You want to build a relationship that you know is going to grow and there's a mutual benefit to it and there's enthusiasm to do it right and determination to do it. It's like a shared vision to go forward. And I think sometimes you have to sort of go through a number of those before you find the right fit. So I would say to listeners, those are important decisions to make and not to do those too rationally. I think sometimes people think, oh, well, there's a certain amount of money if I give a certain amount of equity away. Like, I think it's really important that you line up with the right people. And then for founders, which a good friend of mine once said to me was a cfo, he said one thing he found when he saw a lot of startup companies scaling and raising capital and getting to the next level, is that sometimes founders are so close to their original vision, they don't let the experts come and help them make certain changes that need to be changed so that they can grow it and evolve it to the next level, because they hold on so dear to it. And that's a common mistake. And I think sometimes if you have a vision to grow it bigger and you're prepared to be, it's the company, not me, not not the individual that is going to grow, it's the company. If you can kind of separate the two and understand that, then I think sky's the limit, right? When you have a great idea and it works and you're willing to put in the work and innovate and change over time, it's beneficial. And I think in the legal industry and for us in legal tech world, and for us personally, for me Governance is really important, especially with privacy and data issues and things like that. I know there's AI. I know there's tech companies there in different industries that are evolving quick and fast. But for us, we have to do it slowly, wisely, and with governance. Because at the end of the day, even those companies out there that are innovating, any legal issues or breaches that may come up, they're going to land on our tables. So we got to figure them out. So as lawyers in the legal tech world, we need to be conscious of that, you know, and that's part of what's really important with counselor docs when we're building further tools and platforms and products within counsel your docs, both for the public and the law firms. We take that very seriously. And it's really important to us. I mean, I've had pushback where someone has once said to me, listen, AI is evolving really quick. There'll be a time where it's going to replace lawyers. And I said, well, that time hasn't come yet. And it's going to take a while because again, as law firms, our licenses are along the line. We're not ready to, you know, fully kind of make that. We can't do it blindly, let me put it that way. You know, it will require further diligence and due diligence and public protection and client protection. So we're very conscious of that.

And I feel too, like very similar, you know, we're a multidisciplinary practice as well with the accounting and the legal side in Ontario. And, you know, I think about that often as well. I don't know that AI is going to eliminate the professions, either one of them. I feel like it will maybe change the role of, you know, the professionals from doing work to being the advisors and the guiders and the reviewers and the, you know, using our professional knowledge to maybe give more advice versus doing. And I think that, you know, that's an evolution that maybe we have to get to. And I think maybe your product or your solution is a kickoff to that, to show how technology can help support efficiency in this space. And I really like that a lot.

Yeah, no, I for sure is going to cause more efficiency, reduced time, like all those things. But the thing is accuracy and human factor, we still haven't gotten there yet. Right. We still need to be, because it caught hallucinations and certain other privacy data breaches that still can come up right now and biases and all that stuff. I didn't want to get into the AI conversation Here. But there are certain factors that are really concerning still. Yes, they're working on it and great, go for it. But again, I think there should be a level of responsible governance that goes along with that.

Absolutely. Okay, so let's shift gears here a little bit. And knowing that you've gone through this, I think there's some great insight that you can share in this one particular area going through. And you know, you're having to go in and pitch this to businesses and to law firms about how this solution can be helpful and beneficial to their practice. You're also helping individuals understand, you know, here's a cost effective alternative to this thinking, specifically to those law firms and those professional services groups. You know, what have you learned about how to pitch this new solution to those buyers and those collaborators in getting that across the line and getting signed checks on the other side? Because here's one thing I can say about you without question, your passion flows through the fact that you're already a lawyer and you have the expertise of being on that side of the table, you huge green lights. But there's still resistance, especially in the professional services sides to incorporating this innovation because we're not used to it. So what experience or knowledge have you gained in these pitches that helps you gain traction?

Well, I think first of all is believing in your product, number one. And then, I mean, having the approval too of other experts like the SAN is very helpful for, you know, credibility and as you said as a lawyer also. But it's also when you do your demos, right, you explain the product, you kind of anticipate what could be the questions or hesitation questions that could come up and say, hey, this is an area of concern or whatever and be able to honestly and with integrity to answer those questions. Like I'm the first to say, like if, for example, like I had, like in the beginning, I also had where law firms came back to me and said, well, you know, what about, you know, we have certain clauses that we want to put in and this and that. And then I remember saying, listen, I already thought of that because, you know, being a lawyer myself, I know when you're dealing with a client, you have your own branding and you want your own stamp of approval. We do customization, we will work alongside with you. And I think what's really important too is choosing who you think is going to partner up with you and the clients that are going to be motivated and happy with, with what you're providing them and are also going to come along with you and cheer you on. And say, hey, if you have any more innovative, are you going to do different? We get to be part of this journey. We get to test it out too, with you. And you know what I mean, like, really buy into it and that they understand it. And of course, delivering. You got to deliver the product. You absolutely got to deliver it. And I think sometimes letting them know and having that relationship and they build confidence with you that that's kind of like, okay, we can trust this. Let's, you know, let's use this. And then they see it for themselves and be prepared. Like, there's never, like there's always going to be. Especially in. When you're doing business. Right. There may be a scenario or a case or a customer issue that might come up that may have. You may get a disgruntled customer. Right. I come from a family of entrepreneurs, so I know what a disgruntled customer could be. And it could be like even the little ridiculous thing, or it could be really something legitimate. You've got to be there to say, okay, we stand, you know, buy our product. But you know what? The customer, the client is important. How can we service this to you with causing yourself undue hardship, but being fair? And I think one most important thing too is when you do service your clients to be memorable and give them something that they're going to be like, hey, I needed this. This helped me, and I got excellent service. And they themselves will be so excited to tell others about it. Right? Let. Let your clients and customers speak for you. Don't speak for yourself. Let them do it. And just saying, give me the opportunity for you to do that. You know, like, I sometimes think, like, that's, for me, I feel like that's the most integrable way. And when you, when there's an error or whatever happens, be willing to say, yes, okay, accountable for that. How can we fix this? What can we do going forward? Right. And I think when you sort of come across like that people are willing to work with you. Right. So. And then they get to see your product, too, and then that speaks for itself too. So I think it's a combination of things, right?

Yeah. And that you've got such a sense of pride of ownership in the product as well, which is amazing. And that goes a long way, you know, when you, like you said, to kick that whole piece off, when you truly believe one in the. The way that this is helping people and to the quality of the product that you're bringing across the line, so much easier than, you know, bringing in a salesperson who doesn't actually believe in what you're doing. You know, you have created this. You've put your blood, sweat and tears into this. You believe in it. You know, the impact, you know, that goes a really long way when you're talking to people 100%, if I may.

Say, Bob, to be completely honest with you, and I can be very humble person because I am honestly, I have gone to tech experts, I've gone to professors who have had done legal tech before and have successful platforms and things like that. And I've gone to them and I've said to them, hey, if you think I don't have a product here, you think, like, I shouldn't be wasting my time, just tell me, tell me now. Right? Like I need to know. Because again, like, you got to stand by what you say, you know, and for me, that's really important. And if I get any kind of feedback or anything that somebody tells me, hey, no, you're like, no, you need to pivot or no, maybe not at this time or whatever. Like, I, I've gotten. I have to say that I am so grateful. The amount of enthusiasm, interest and excellent feedback and encouragement that I've gotten from experts, from law firms, from people, tech investors and things like that, which I just said, I'm not ready for investment yet. But I sort of pick your brain. Here's what I think. Right. Kind of thing has been positive and I think when you kind of get that on an ongo ongoing basis, it encourages you and it lets you know, yeah, you're on to something. Right. And, and then customer feedback, right. Client feedback and their experience, that also. So those are a combination of, of things, I think. You have to be honest. You have to be honest with yourself. You have to be honest with your, your client base. And I think all the other big companies that are out there and that are well known, they all started out like that, you know, where you got to be true to yourself. I mean, look at Steve Job, right? Like his journey and, and things like that. So be crazy innovator, but willing to pivot and change and know when you made a mistake and then sticking by it and sticking to what your vision is, especially when you know, when you know, you know what I mean? Like, you have to kind of know, you know, like, you can't just go out there and say whatever, right? Because they'll bite you. It will come back to bite you, and it's not worth it at the end of the day. It really is not.

Yeah, you've got to be deliver. You've got to be able to deliver on what you're selling without question, right? It can't be, it can't be smoke and mirrors because you'll be found out and your reputation in that space goes away really fast. And I think there's so many quotes around that, but, you know, it takes years to build up reputation, but it takes a moment to lose it. So it's so, so true in that space as well. If you start building something up to be something it's not, you know, you lose that reputation. And you know, again, someone like you, with the integrity you have working in the trenches on, not only just building it, but being a legal practitioner as well, you know, brings a lot of credibility to, to the fact that you've created something that's really unique and special in this space. Question for you. And this has been amazing, by the way, sharing your story and your insights and for sure, anybody who's going through that, not only the entrepreneurial journey, but the tech journey of developing the some type of innovative solution or product, I'm sure they can, they can relate to the, some of the challenges, but some of the excitement related to this entire process. What I would like just to sort of end with here would be, you know, what would your pieces of advice, maybe a few pieces of advice that you would give to somebody who is back at the starting point of creating this. What would you tell to your former self to say, here's some guidance that I would give you that would have made this process easier for me?

Oh, that's a good question. Sorry, it's a tough one. It's a good question. I think reminding myself that going back and to anyone who's listening is to remind yourself. Perseverance, determination and feeling the lulls are all part of the entrepreneurial journey. And it's okay. It's okay. Give yourself grace. And if you make a mistake, which I did in the beginning and then I had to kind of figure, hence the 72 hours, right. I'm just being hopping and like, you know, it requires hard work, but it also requires grit, right? And don't give up, you know, especially when, you know, you've given the positive affirmation of what you're doing and go to the right people, I think what's really important too, and this is what I did and I would probably do it again if I was to go back and I wouldn't change that and that hence I want to really hone this in for your listeners is make sure. You're not always the smartest person at the table. It is better to be the one that is really a sponge and be there with people who are smarter than you or more experienced or have gotten to where you want to be. Right. Not only will they inspire you, but they will give you gold nuggets that you can hold onto. And if they don't make sense to you right now, don't worry about them. You know, compartmentalize them. Put them in a. In a department where you just kind of say, okay, this is my file here. When I need to go back to it, I can go back and use it and maybe execute it at that time. Or like, what I like to do is if I'm not there and. But somebody else who you know is another entrepreneur that I can help say, hey, have you considered this? I know someone who's at this stage had recommended this. Maybe this might help you. I think that willingness to learn, willingness to pivot, and a willingness to keep educating yourself and learning from others that are where exactly you want to be, I think is. Is a key is really important, for sure.

Thank you for this, Suki. It's. You've been so insightful, and again, genuine, caring, innovative. I love how you're transforming the industry and you're leading that change because that is way more difficult of a thing than people even understand, especially in professions where nothing really changes from year to year, let alone day to day. So congratulations on the success you've had so far. What I would love to do, though, is if there's any individuals who are looking to test out your product or to make sure that they get their shareholder agreement in place and maybe follow the future of what other agreements are maybe coming down the pipe. And for any lawyers or other professionals who would like to review your product to see how they can fit that into some of their service offering, what's the best way for people to get a hold of you?

Well, to get a hold of me would be suki lsmdp.com and they can visit our website. Counsel your docs.com so cancer dots is C O u N S E L U R D o C s dot com. I'm sure you'll be able to put it in your.

We'll make sure the link gets in as well.

Yeah, it's a play on words I came up with.

I like it a lot. No, yeah. No, that's amazing. So, Suki, thank you so much again for your insights. Thank you, guys. We're gonna end this here, but I want to thank you for, for joining us and being part of this journey and conversation today. If there's anything that you've heard today that's insightful or has been a light bulb for you, drop a comment in below. We want to hear your comments. We want to even answer any questions that you may have, whether it's how to get a hold of Suki or, you know, what are some of the values of shareholder agreements, anything like that. Throw that in here. If there's been something that has been shared here. If someone that you know is going through a very similar experience to Suki in developing an innovative product or really pioneering change in a traditional sort of industry, make sure that you share this with them. We're here to empower entrepreneurs to make drastic change globally. And what we want to do is make sure that any insights we have we can share with the largest audience. So please, please, please share this out and also make sure you hit follow and so that you are here and ready for our next episode released next week. Because we've been releasing episodes every week for over. We're at about a year and a half now. I think we're on episode 70 something today, depending on which ones get launched and released first. So make sure that you follow us. We want to make sure that you're here for the next journey and the next group of insights. So to my audience, thank you so much for joining today. Suki, thank you so much for being here and I hope everybody has a fantastic day.

Thank you for having me and everybody. You gotta listen to Bob's podcast. Always wealth of information. Good, good stuff.

Always amazing. Thanks, guys. We'll see you next week.