Taking the Leap: Overcoming Fear and Doubt with Michaela Kealey

Not only if you're looking at buying a business, but if you're looking at buying a property as well. Income that you need to demonstrate to be able to qualify for these, it goes up, right? So our ability to pay for things goes down and the requirement for us to fulfill those financing needs goes up. If you want to play in that risk game, you need to have things planned out. You need to know where you're heading and you need to know what your path and what your objectives are and the critical drivers that will allow you to be successful. Hey everybody, Bob Goverau here. Welcome to the Wealthy Entrepreneur podcast. So grateful to have you here. Ultimately, our goal with the Wealthy Entrepreneur podcast is to empower you with good information so that you as the business owner can go out, impact the most amount of people and do so while creating the greatest impact on the world together. I'm really excited today to be able to bring in a guest, Michaela Keeley. Mikayla and I have the opportunity to work closely together. She's part of the Govro team and I'm actually just going to get her to come in and share a little bit about what she does with the team. But before I get there, I just want to give maybe a quick outline of what we're going to talk about today. So Mikayla and I work closely on the cultural side of the business and ultimately dealing with how we become high performers. And so Mikaela and I are going to talk a little bit about that today. We're going to talk about how to minimize the impact of fear in our lives and we're also going to talk about addressing self doubt because a lot of us deal with, you know, facing challenges and doubting ourselves and what we're really capable of doing. So we're going to talk about that today. So as an outcome you're going to understand how to minimize any of the fear that's being pushed at us through the economy, through this time of recession. And then we're also going to look at the self doubt and, and making sure that we can believe in ourselves so that we can maximize that performance. So without any further ado, I'd love to welcome in Michaela. Michaela, tell us a little bit about yourself.

Thank you so much. I am so excited to be here and always a pleasure to spend time together and have interesting conversations. I am a well being coach and culture strategist and the way that I really have, you know, come to look at that and grow into that title has been to, you know, really look at organizations as a full functioning, you know, organism. And that in order to achieve the best out of, you know, everybody, we have to look at, you know, the environment and what we offer to people and then also look at the individual and how to support them to become the best that, that they can be and the best version of themselves so that they're, they're both rising to meet each other so that the environment is becoming the supportive, exciting, you know, space that allows for people who are rising to come to. And it's this both. And, you know, we as individuals need to grow and change and so do our environments. So I like to look at both and in working with people one on one, that there, there are always themes that arise that you can really put towards the organization as a whole and just pinpoint sort of where change can be made and how you would want to go about it and what could be best, you know, in order to seek the environment and seek the culture that you're ultimately looking for as a business owner.

It's, it's interesting. So, you know, from my perspective, for all of our listeners, Michaela is probably one of the people in my lives. I'll. I'll take my wife out of this, but Mikayla is probably one of those people who has the most challenging conversations with me out of anybody. And, and I say that, not saying that her and I don't have incredible conversations because I know every time we get on, you know, there's passion, there's excitement, and, and she challenges people to get the best out of them. And I would say, Mikaela, that's why I feel one of your greatest qualities is that, you know, you, when you have conversations with people, you're a really great listener and you don't necessarily respond in the way that people are expecting you to, and you challenge them to get the best out of them. And I respect and appreciate that so much.

Thank you. Thank you for that.

Yeah. So for everybody, you are going to get the privilege of listening to Mikayla and I have a little bit of a banter back and forth because this is how, this is how our meetings go. And typically we have to schedule more time. We don't, because if we scheduled more time, we would fill it with engaging conversations and challenging each other. And it's always fascinating. But this is for you guys today, so this is not so much for us. But you're going to get a perspective of this because Mikaela and I, you know, we don't think the same way, but we do think the same way. And ultimately because what we're trying to do is always help people get the greatest out of themselves. We approach it in different angles, which is why I feel like we have such engaging conversations. And we're really actually great team, I feel. I don't care about anybody else's opinion at this point. Mikayla, between you and I, I think we're a pretty damn good team. So right now, the economy, the recession, one of the pieces, and I'll just maybe kick this off as a discussion. I talk a lot about the fear that the media portrays on us. Interest rates rising, you know, people's demands for their services somewhat drop because people's spending has kind of been pulled back a little bit because everybody's a little bit fearful. And one of the things that I tell our business owners, like all of the listeners right now, is this is probably one of the greatest opportunities to lean into that opportunity, lean into that. That fear that other people are pulling back from and lean in and become the best version of you. I would love to get your take on fear. And what is it that fear does to that? Maybe hits people and stops them from really living out the best version of themselves.

No big deal.

Going to hit you with it, Michaela. And let's roll.

Oh, fear. I mean, it's not something any of us are immune to. We can all, no matter where we are, whether we're entrepreneurs or parents or, you know, students, solar, wherever you are, you're going to experience fear. And it can be the guiding post for which people live their life or. And the constraints with which they live their life or. Sorry. It can be the guiding post and it can be the, you know, alert that, oh, there's something there for me to go closer towards because that fear, that even the feeling of fear in the body is still similar to excitement and can be similar to, you know, opportunity and this next level. But we are. Our brain is really strong at painting a story around what that feeling is and what that would mean to be true. And that's what we would really want to unpack. We all have certain fears that really link back and run deep within us that have, you know, differences across each one of us, whether it's fear of failure or fear of, you know, financial security or of not. Not being good enough. We all have our own cocktail of fear that we try to mitigate in all of these different ways. And we can go about it in, you know, by overachieving or trying to get something external to say, oh, if I got a certain amount of money or if My business had this many clients, or if, you know, I lived in this house, then I. Then I wouldn't feel that way. And we. We're not necessarily putting those pieces together all the time, but it can be a major driver for us that becomes tough to delineate, whether it's a positive vehicle for growth or a negative one.

Yeah. You know, and I. I maybe just want to share some of my fear. And. And you and I had a conversation about this this week, actually, which had to get cut off because we had other appointments, but we could have kept going with it. And, you know, and I want you to share your response in our conversation because I think it was super powerful and I think it's a perspective that everybody needs to see. And, you know, I was talking about the fact that certain circumstances come up that we can't control, and I think one of those circumstances is interest rates. And we were talking about, you know, a few things that I have done in the last year that have been super challenging. And for those of you who work closely with me, you know, I like to live a little bit close to the line. I like to take risk. I like to forcefully pursue growth and opportunity because for me, you know, with our team, with our company, you know, one, I want to test things out because I want to share that information of what works and what doesn't work. And, you know, sometimes that's a little bit scary as a risk taker. The other piece is we've got so many incredible people in our organization who are pursuing their own growth path and trajectory, and they want opportunity. And if I don't provide that to them, then they will go pursue opportunity elsewhere. And we've got a really high retention rate in our business, but it's because we pursue opportunity across the organization to continue to fulfill that for people. And last fall, specifically with interest rates rising, we made an acquisition of a cloud accounting firm. With it came an incredible team and incredible clients. And the negotiation of this purchase went through as interest rates were starting to climb. And we got into a spot where it was like, okay, interest rates are now double what they were for a nice meaty purchase. That's a challenge on its own. But again, those who know me like to know that I like to pursue the line. We also personally bought a cottage property at the same token. So for those of you who don't understand how interest rates impact you when you go to borrow money, the amount of money that you can borrow when interest rates go up goes like this. So not only if you're looking at buying a business, but if you're looking at buying a property as well, the income that you need to demonstrate to be able to qualify for these, it goes up, right? So our ability to pay for things goes down, and the requirement for us to fulfill those financing needs goes up. And so this was like a perfect storm for me last year. And I was telling Mikayla this last week, or maybe even this week, that it was maybe one of the most stressful, challenging times that I have put myself into because of everything at once. And I had said, you know, I was right on the line of this is, you know, gonna make or break me. And a couple things came out of it from my perspective, and then I want Mikayla to challenge it a little bit. And, you know, I said, for me, this was really, really tough. Again, it was right on the financial line, where I like to live, maybe a little bit too close to the financial line, but I do that, and I can get close to the line because I'm very well planned out, Right? And if you want to play in that risk game, you need to have things planned out. You need to know where you're heading, and you need to know what your path and what your objectives are and the critical drivers that will allow you to be successful. So I was very, very clear on this in my business, which allowed me to get close, which allowed me to get past, you know, that little bit of financial hurdle and successfully get through to the other side. But Mikaela, I know when I said, you know, it was interesting talking about this, you somewhat challenged me, and you said, well, why do you think that happened? Why do you challenge. Why do you challenge people in that and say, why do you think that maybe this didn't happen to you, it happened for you. Why do you do that?

Because I would say mainly it's what I believe. I believe that all of these situations do happen for us and that we wouldn't put ourselves in those scenarios if it wasn't. And sometimes, well, also to say, whether it's fear or success or these, you know, opposing desire, like, opposing forces in the world, like bad things, good things happen. They're always going to happen. So what do we. How do we want to choose to look at it? Do I want to be upset that it didn't go exactly as I would have wanted it to, or do I want to say, hey, what did that show me? And actually take responsibility for the circumstances because then I can gain a sense of control and what I would want to support other people to do. Is to take control over, you know, the circumstances of their lives and see them as not know, burdens or impediments to their success, but maybe also happening for them. And you know, in that conversation shared too, I've also experienced my deepest fears in a lot of different ways and that once that actually happens, you don't have it anymore. You know, you're not driven by that fear because it already happened and you survived. And if you can think about all of the, you know, spaces where specifically as entrepreneurs, my like, oh my God, the lines that you've met, that you've towed, that you've gone way beyond in all of these different areas, if you can look at them and know that you wouldn't have the knowledge you did, or you wouldn't have that, you know, ability to expand into your stress physically, you know, and be able to hold going close to that line, then you wouldn't be where you are right now. And so if we can reframe sort of quote, unquote negative experiences or not perfect experiences as being for us, then when they're happening, if we can do it in hindsight, amazing. And then when we experience another one, we can settle into it a little bit more and know that we can be driven by something different than our fear or than our, our perceived security and external successes.

Yeah. So one of the things I'm hearing you say, and I completely agree with, is, you know, entrepreneurs, if we're looking to grow and become the next version of ourselves, we need to face these fears and we need to break through them. And I can tell you that the last year, just, you know, with the sheer number of people that are part of our organization now, you know, bringing multiple cultures together, bringing different approaches to work and strategy, pulling all that together and managing individuals emotions in a challenging time where fear is ever present. It's not just with us. Right. Ever present in all the people that were part of their lives. Even though this was maybe one of the most challenging experiences of my life, I will tell you, when you get through the other side, you're like, wow, have I grown. And I had a. I had a dinner with a gentleman. His name is Mike and he's out of New Jersey and he's a business coach. And I remember had a dinner with him at one point and he's probably one of the more intimidating guys I have met. And he essentially said, you know, we've got this time together. I help people grow. What is the one thing that you want me to share with you as part of this, you know, dinner or this experience together. And we started chatting, and he said something to me that I'll never really forget. And he said, you know, what's holding you back? And I was like, oh, who is this guy? What do you mean, what's holding you back? Come on, buddy. Like, we're growing. And he's like, no, you know what? Yeah. I'm like, who, who is this guy? Someone I, I very much respect. But he said, you know, what's holding you back? I was like, no, what's holding me back? He said, the fact that you aren't set to become the person you need to, to get to the level you want to get to. He said, you need to become that person before you can get there. And I was like, damn, you know, that was powerful. I'm like, oh, now I've got all the questions, how do I become that person? And I think, Mikayla, some of what you just said is, you know, we have to go through these facing fears, breaking out of who we are to get to that next level. We have to embrace that as a challenge and an opportunity to become the person that we want to become. Is that, does that sound fair?

100%. And it reminds me of this quote. The breakdown is imperative for the break through. And you know, the person that you were that got you to the level where you are in your business right now is not the same version of you that will get you to the next one. And what is such a, a, A privilege to work with you is to also know that there, you know, there's no stopping in this company. It is growth driven and as most are. But I think some people have a, or some people could have a ceiling as to where that, where that would be for them. And I know that that's not the case with you. So the willingness to be in the breakdown and know that it is for you is huge. It's huge and, and still so challenging and not without its major discomforts of when you are in proximity to the line, whether it's still above or slightly below, it has that discomfort. And it's almost like holding onto an electric fence. And part of it is, can we hold on long enough to break it or can we just let the electric fence go and know that, you know, what is for us will never go past us.

Yeah, interesting, right? And you know, one of my favorite words to refer to entrepreneurship is resilience. And I feel like, you know, as we deal with this fear and external forces, you know, whether it's interest rates or it's the environment or it's people spending patterns. You know, resilience is what allows us to say, we're here for the fight, we're here, we're up for the challenge, and we're going to solve it. And yes, we fail along the way. Right. You know, would I be lying if I said that my journey has been perfect? 100%. In fact, I feel like it gets more and more challenging every week. And that's okay because I'm embracing more challenge and more fear. And, you know, I think it. It doesn't always feel great in those moments, and it can be really frustrating. But at the same token, to know that you as an entrepreneur have taken on this challenge head on and then you beat it, you know, it does allow you to continue to grow as a person. I know. You know, Michaela will always say, okay, so why do you think this happened to you for you? You know, was this meant to happen? Like, I think it was meant to be. And it always challenges me to be like, would you stop it? You know, like, stop saying that. I, I wish it wasn't to be. But, you know, after you think about it and you go, man, you know, pushing through that ceiling or through that barrier just allows you to grow as a person. And I feel like as us being resilient entrepreneurs, the greatest way we can continue to grow is embrace challenge, embrace fear, and push through that glass ceiling.

And on the other side of it, when you really tend think, wait, was that for me? Because what do I now know? And what, what is this next vision that I can now see? I would say for me, you know, pushing through in my consultancy business, moving from an employee to a consultant and tripping along the way and figuring it out and then realizing what it is that I'm really here to do and uniquely, you know, called for, as we all are, to something. For us, the next levels are only apparent when I'm going through the discomfort and moving through it. So that's my, my personal journey and also see it, you know, reflected around me all the time. All the time.

Yeah. And I think, because there's no real way of knowing until you experience it, but I do feel like, you know, when you're looking for a leader or your team is looking for a leader, they want somebody who will embrace challenge and will embrace fear and exude confidence and calmness along that way. Because if we as leaders, right, business owners, like, if we as leaders are sitting here and we're, you know, we're one, we're complaining about it. You know, I have my few people, Michaela being one of them, that I can complain to and say, hey, you know, I just want to share my displeasure about this journey here for a moment. But your team needs you to be strong, confident, and push through. They want to know that they've got a leader who they're following that's going to get through this and is willing to put everything on the line to get to that. You know, the other side of this fear of this challenge. And, you know, I think one of the greatest things that I've been able to experience over for sure the last year is how to evolve as a leader and how leaders evolve through dealing with challenges and adversity and pushing through whether it's successful or not successful. The fact that you've taken the challenge on and you've learned from it, it's now building up the history and your portfolio of the challenges you can take on. And even if you do fail, you probably have recognized how you could have done it differently and how you could have done it better. And, you know, I know, Mikayla, you've. You've kind of gone through similar sort of growth components over the last couple of years to challenging yourself and pursuing your sort of leadership journey as well. Is it like, what's. What do you like about this sort of piece of challenging yourself and pushing through barriers?

Oh, you know, what's so funny is I don't like it. I don't. It's so uncomfortable. It's. Once you know it, there's no going. I always say this. I'm like, oh, there's just no going back because it works. I see it work time and time again. So now I'm just more willing to allow the discomfort to be there when it's there. And I get supported a lot. You know, like, I have an amazing support system and I am very selective with who I work with and all of those things, so that, that will allow me to move through those uncomfortable emotions or feelings or growth points not alone, even as a solopreneur. So, you know, and, and it's interesting. What I've really come to see in watching, you know, a lot of incredible business owners is that, yes, you're, you know, what you're, what you're speaking of, you know, what your team needs from you is this strength and this confidence and, and all of you know that the, the ability to continue to grow and to call people to grow is also now, I think, really highlighting this craving where people are at for also leaders to share in, you know, oh, hey, this was tough. Or, you know, like, like a little more vulnerability in terms of where the reality is, what you're working through because people really want to support you. And you have wanted to, like, I've watched you support me. I watch my team support me. I've watched me support other people when we know what they're actually going through and then we can. It creates sort of a rallying effect. And it's not without, you know, it's not sharing without confidence or with, you know, full freaking out, you know, everything bad. It's just, hey, this, this can be tough right now, or, hey, this is where we are. Because we're always going to be going in a, in an up and down, just like the economy does. It's not. We're never always going up. So can we just also be honest about that? And if we also work on the journey of understanding that the discomfort is okay, then we can be communicating that in a new way also, because it is, is okay. It is okay for the business to be wherever it is. It is okay for us to have an off day or, you know, not want to do X, Y or Z. And to, to tell people that with, with just full responsibility, hey, here's where I'm at. No big deal, and we'll be back at it again tomorrow, you know.

Yeah. I actually remember, I remember when we had this little old thing that was referred to as the global pandemic. And anybody remember that? Right? I remember the fear that hit me when that happened for so many reasons. I remember the feeling of fear of, oh, my goodness, I think my business is done because all of my clients are now out of business because the economy is shut down. I remember feeling the fear of all of my employees, who at the time I think was around 50, and I felt the, the weight of their family's financial security on my back. And I remember all of those things. And, you know, I would say to anybody in those fear moments, you have two ways that you can deal with it. One, you run from it, and two, you take it head on. And I know in that case, you know, I kind of said at that point, I was like, hey, honey, I gotta go now. She's like, what do you mean? Everybody is locked down in their home. And I'm like, that's nice, but I've gotta go now and I've gotta go help everyone succeed and get through this because we have a professional knowledge that can help support people and give them what they need to get through this year. And it seems like life just continues. Obviously, we don't get global pandemics every day, but it seems like life just continues to throw people different curveballs and we have to deal with situations that we weren't expecting all the time. And we need to lean into that. Right? It's just that opportunity. And I can tell you, because we genuinely lean into that to help people. And our purpose was right and it was something that people were supportive of and they knew our good intentions. Our business blew up at that time. And I know you and I talk about purpose all the time, and I don't think this was an intention of this podcast, but how important is it in understanding your mission and rallying people around why you need to bust through this fear? Like, what's your take on that, Michaela? Like, what is, you know, understanding your why? Like Simon Sinek would say, understanding your purpose. How important is that to helping embrace that change and maybe rallying your troops around you? Like you're talking about, you know, what, what's your take on that?

My take is what else are we doing it for? You know, I, there's so much where we want to use knowledge to override what we know to be the right thing to do because it doesn't feel, it doesn't make sense. Or how could it make sense to just show up and serve your clients even though you know that they can't pay you or they can't go, they might go into business or you might not even have a business. But here I am, I'm just, this is, this is what I'm here to do. You know, it's bigger than, bigger than anything we, we decide. You know, there's so many things where it's, you know, what we love, what our purpose is. We don't even, I don't, I kind of believe we don't even really decide it. I didn't decide to be a person who loved to have conversations with people and ask questions. I didn't decide that that's who I would be if I was living on a park bench or if I am, you know, whatever I'm doing, that's, that's, that's bigger than me. And when it comes to Simon Sinek, our boy, as you know, people that we work with will tell us, you.

Know, we'll put, we'll put a link below here as well. To the start with why circle just for anybody as a reference, it's a couple minute YouTube video, totally worth your, your time to watch that and to understand Your purpose and, you know, his.

Further work, which I know both, we are both very engaged in, which is the Infinite Game, is really changing the idea that, you know, we're here for short term gains and it's okay if you are and if that's the business trajectory that you have. But in general, people start businesses because they have something burning inside of them that they want to offer to the world. And 10, how do we start to look at that as really just. What's the word? Like not logical, almost. There's no logic in showing up and delivering work for no money. You know, nobody would say you should do that. And yet, if you're really playing infinitely, if you're really looking at business as this or your business as something that will outlast you and your future generations and that really can offer something to the world, what is even a momentary blip, what is dipping below the line for a moment. You know, if we're really stretching our mindset around what it is that we're here to do beyond just to, you know, get a car, get a certain amount of money, then we can show up in a totally different way that people feel and they know. And of course, we need our, you know, securities taken care of. Absolutely. We just, all human beings deserve our needs to be met for sure. And that Infinite Game around the why and the just cause that he talks about is the proven metric to come back to, is all of the. Are. Are all of the our actions or all of our conversations, are they really with this in mind and this bigger purpose and this bigger mission, is our policies aligned with that now? Are we really thinking long term here beyond our lifetime?

And we thinking small group, right? Like, are we thinking too small?

The too small 10x come on.

Right. Well, and. But the Infinite game, like I know we went through with the Gobro team, you know, a re not a rebranding, although we did that as well. But we went back through core values and purpose and identifying that. And like I remember there was a moment in Infinite Game, you know, we were trying to identify what it is that we want to do, which is empower entrepreneurs, give them confidence with good information to make informed decisions and ultimately together change the world and make a huge impact. But I remember reading or listening audiobook to the Infinite Game and I listened to this part, you know, five or six times, where he's like, it needs to be your purpose and your mission, need to be something that is essentially unattainable. And it's something that, you know, you're willing to put everything on the line, he says die for, but put everything on the line for. To know that you're never going to really accomplish it, but you're willing to die trying. And, you know, the way that that sort of changed in a small tweak is where, you know, we want to empower, you know, a million entrepreneurs to be successful. And he would say, now that's too small. Even though a million is a big number and that's, know, a stretch, he'd say, empower them all, like, every one of them. And we know that that's something we're never going to be able to do, but we're willing to die trying for it. And I think that's, you know, pretty impactful. When you. When you match up fear and purpose, all of a sudden, and this is where we were chatting this week, all of a sudden that fear goes away because it's not. It's way less important to you than actually achieving your mission. It becomes more of a. I'm not going to get distracted by this fear over here because I'm so committed to creating this purpose or seeing this through. And I know I kind of shared with you, it was interesting. I am such an advocate for building out our pathway and understanding what our financial goals are. And I say this, and whether people like it or not, it's true. Profit has to be the number one focus in your business, because if you don't have profit, you do not have a sustainable business. If you have profit, you can reinvest all of it to maximize your impact. So if you're really focused on maximizing your impact, you need to focus on your profit first. So we need to understand how to do that, because that's the driver of everything that's not financial if is understanding how we get those resources. And it's true. But when we got into that, you know, last fall, challenging times over leveraged myself personally while doing a business deal and a real estate deal. Money had zero part of that. You know, the fear was that I wouldn't be able to fulfill my mission. And when I got that fear out of my way because I was so clear on my goal to help empower entrepreneurs that nothing else mattered. I was so focused. That allowed us as a team to continue to pursue that and persevere through any of those obstacles. And, you know, I think for you as an entrepreneur, as a listener here, you know, to be able to be very clear on what it is you're trying to accomplish and to surround people who also believe in what you believe in is going to be the most powerful thing that will help you evolve into that leader, into that next version of yourself. But it will also allow you to bring in the support that you need to push through that fear. Because I can tell you when you're going through it alone, that fear is way more challenging than when you've got a team or a group of people who are facing that fear together. And I think that's your. When you started talking about vulnerability, Mikayla, that's what, you know, we're identifying is let's let people in because they also believe in what we believe in. They can feel the fear, let us together push through that and accomplish great things.

And, you know, one, once you also lead with that or allow your, your team members to have spaces where they can just put their fears on the table and because we can start to see the story around the fear and eliminate it and just accept that we do have it. Oh, I'm, I'm afraid, like, if I don't do this, I'm not going to fulfill my mission. Oh. Oh, interesting. Instead of just, you know, operating from these intense, stressful, heightened emotional states that we don't have awareness as to why we're doing it even. And so when you create those spaces or lead with that for yourself as an entrepreneur, then it also gives permission for your team members to do the same. Oh, I'm afraid if I don't, you know, stress out all day that I won't do my work. That's interesting. That's interesting. Okay, let's. That's an interesting story. Let's unpack that, you know, and really see what's the truth behind this. Because our fears, like we were saying at the beginning, can really get in the way. And while they're. They're sometimes showing us how much we care about something or the bigger mission, they can also win for a lot of us. A lot of us live within fear and ruled by it, and we just don't. The more we can even physically start to experience spaces where we can overcome that, we can really start to just allow it to be there to share it with people who we trust and, and we know care about us and can help us through it or support us through it and then, and then kind of use it. Like you said, I'm going to use it, I'm going to run towards it, but there is. Doesn't need to be that awareness around it. Also, I would say in the middle, you can either run from it, you can run, you can run from it, you can run towards it, and you can just allow it to exist and decide. Decide something else, you know, oh, it is there. That's okay. Fear is never going away. This is how we are biologically created and evolved into having it. It's necessary in a lot of places, and in others, not at all. So can we just allow it to be there and put it on the table and look at it? Oh, is that true right now, that if I offer these services to these businesses, I'll go under? I don't. I don't. We don't know. Like, let's stop painting it as the more true option that's circulating in our mind. Like, also, what if it all worked out? What if this was all for me? What if I was meant to go through this? Because something on the other side that I don't even know yet, I can't even conceptualize is there waiting for me to understand. You know, when I think of you and those moments where I ask you, why. Why do you think this is happening for you? For me, it's very. It's always clear. We can always see others journey better than we can see our own. And that's why working with people is so helpful, whether it's in whatever area you find the expert, right? And it's. It's like, oh, it's so clear it's happening for you to stretch into what will be the next growth pattern. And, oh, what do I have to leave behind? What identity do I leave behind? What behaviors and actions do I leave behind? That got me to where I am, like. And thank God it did. But that's not the next level too.

You know, it's. It's always interesting. Could you go back to that? Normally, when we're having these conversations and, you know, it's funny, when you and I connect, I have zero intention of going down the path of talking about, you know, different challenges. And you're like, yeah, I know I bring that out in people, but. And it's true, and it's wonderful. You need to be able to identify, you know, the issues that you're going through. You need to be able to. To walk through them, but, you know, embrace the fact that it is happening and it's okay. And it's okay that it's happening, regardless of how painful it is. It's okay that it's happening because we're gonna get through it. We will get through it. And, you know, that's. That's a lot of entrepreneurship, right? Like, there's so many frustrations that happen on a daily basis, and maybe not even a daily basis, but. But on a weekly basis. For sure, we have obstacles that come up because we can't control everything. Now, on the exact opposite side, I've got a business coach that I work with, Alex Charfen. And one of the things he said to me is, our objective in creating this business is, is really to create a boring system, a boring business, where it's like, you know, we're just going to let things roll out and continue to progress, and we're going to plan quarterly. We're not going to change anything. Let's create a boring business. And I'm, you know, normally I'm. I don't agree. All right, and, and that's okay. We're going to get Alex in here and we're going to talk about this at some point. But the idea of building a boring business is nice. Like, I want to be able to build the boring business for my team, but without question, I will constantly be challenging the status quo. And I feel like that's what all of you business owners are doing as well. Boring sounds nice, but if we want to be cutting edge and we want to be creating something or even pushing the limits of how many people we can impact, we're going to be changing things. And yes, maybe it doesn't have to be as spontaneous as us as entrepreneurs throw things out where we're constantly trying to change things every single day. And I think that's his point. It's, hey, let's. Let's see something through before we bring another idea to the table. Now, that was a bit of a tangent, and I do want to talk about one more thing here, Michaela.

And, oh, I want to just add, too, you know, the boring. What I would kind of take from that even. And I understand not wanting to build a boring business, what I would take from it is removing our emotional responses to the fluctuations of the world around us so we can just. We can see where it's going. Oh, we're up. Oh, we're down. Or up. Or we're down and just deciding to not react to those moments. Or, oh, a person's leaving, a person's coming in. Or, you know, whatever the fluctuations are. Like we're standing in the middle of the seesaw. Not on either end. Not going up, not going down, and just finding the.

Not.

Not equating excitement to emotional heightened adrenaline or winning or success. It's like, actually, can we find a different excitement in an, in a. In the baseline of like, oh, I'm just loving showing up for this. Whether it's up, whether it's down, whether, you know, people are coming or people are going. Can I just remove my identity from it and just watch this, you know, live and breathe around me?

I know what you're saying and you know, I don't know that that's a space that I can live, but I hear you that I want to get closer to that and I think we all need to get closer to, to that. Right? We, we need to embrace the idea that the emotional roller coaster needs to go out the window and that we need to embrace some of these rhythms that are happening to say, like you would always reference it's happening and it's okay in instead of having knee jerk responses to things. So I totally hear you. Let's talk about, we talked about fear. We've talked about vulnerability. Let's talk about self doubt and what we can do as business owners to essentially enable us the courage to push through these issues, these challenges, these fears. Because I know for me there's been a few moments. Doesn't happen very often, but there's moments where I almost feel like I get into a spot where I'm like, I'm not sure what I need to do next to break through this. And you know, I, I have a few clients who I work with closely. We have a CFO program and I do monthly coaching with them, helping that business owner essentially plan out financially. Here's our benchmarks that we're trying to create. Let's talk about strategy on a monthly basis. Financial, non financial. Have conversations like this. And you know, when I say to them, you know, there's times where, you know, I get really anxious about what turn I need to make now to make sure I stay on the right path. And sometimes those challenges are really hard and stressful and frustrating. And for me, I know what I do. I found my go to and it's typically listening to some sort of motivational video. And it may sound crazy, but I feel like the reason I'm bringing this up is that everybody goes through it. My clients who I have the CFO program with, they would say, that's really you. You hit that sort of wall. And absolutely I do. I'm sure everybody does. Every person who you've seen that you respect has hit the walls of how do I deal with this right now? And those people who are pushing the limits, I bet you are dealing with that more often than those who aren't pushing the limits. And you know, again, for me I hit some sort of how to deal with adversity, sort of video or podcast or you know, to get my mind back into a spot where it's like, you've got this Mikhail. What's your take on that? What would your advice be for people who are dealing with self doubt, not believing in themselves, how can they position themselves to be successful?

I think one of the most beautiful exercises I've really come to root into and you know, show up for from my mentor and coaches and support systems is really what's the story I'm telling myself and sort of just like, like we're really talking about today and so much accept it, put it on the table, see what it is that's happening internally and start to, you know, create some separation between what your ego, fears and doubts in you and, and you know, and just see the story for it's a, that's a story I'm telling myself. And then feel whatever feeling it is that's around that because so much of it is, you know, our self doubt is keeping us from moving forward because we're afraid of something that we'll have to feel on the other side. Well, if we can just get that part out of the way first, then we can move on. So if I'm doubting my ability and what I can do, like wait, what story am I telling myself around, why that is and do I have, and then one step further, do I have any evidence that disproves this? Because you know, the more you learn about psychology and the brain and all of these things, negativity bias of our mind and of our ego's mind is something wild like 90%. So we're if, if, if that's true, if our brain is always wired to go 90% into a negativity spiral, we only have 10% of positive. We really have to do so much extra work to combat that and to eat away at that 90% and it becomes such an intentional, albeit annoying process. I'm like, oh, it's so uncomfortable. But if we do, if we really believe in a bigger purpose for our lives or what we're here to do and we, we can root back into that, we have to allow the self doubt to exist and act anyway. But we really need to first know what it is. Why is it there? Oh, is it because that time when I was a kid, somebody said something, okay, how long have I been telling that story? Okay, am I ready to let go of that electric fence? Can I stop re traumatizing myself with that story and Take ownership there and take ownership to let that go, which is I. Something I don't recommend doing alone. And you don't have to do anything alone. Nobody does anything great alone. Be supported from all of the angles, like the financial. Even what you're saying when you walk people through, I'm like, oh my God, that is so helpful. Yes, we need that. And as much as I need somebody to help me walk through my emotions, it's so much just we, we don't see ourselves clearly and we don't even take a second to observe the evidence that goes against our negative thinking. So we want to be really intentional about taking those moments and saying, hey, well actually true. Is that really true? Is that true today? And sort of what you were saying about that mentor Mike that you had, is that true? For my future self who has the life and has built the business that I know I'm here to build, would they continue to tell that story? What would they do to move through that story? You know, and it's interesting when you start and you know, if you start to experience physical resistance, like I'm a big fan of cold plunging right now and it is this full body exercise of experiencing that electric fence where all you want to do is get out and then eventually it's fine and you get out of the cold and you're like, you could just like rushes the mo. You know, adrenaline and norepinephrine and dopamine and all of these incredible things where you're like, oh my God, I held through that. And you can do it with emotional or mental responses as just, just as well.

Love that 90% negative bias. That's pretty wild.

Isn't that crazy?

Yeah. Interesting. And definitely one of the things that I took away from what you were talking about was the need to embrace that base of adversity. Right. And I feel like, you know, that self doubt will continue to disappear when you know that you can face this adversity head on. And you know, whether you win or you lose, the fact that, you know, you can embrace it and that you're up for the challenge is something that will help push through that adversity. 1 and you know, speaking of psychology of, of the mind, I think of psychology of high performance and momentum and you know, I didn't. Did some research on cognitive, behavioral, behavioral theory and, and momentum and progress and how that works. And for us as business owners, one of the things that will help us through that disbelief is to actually reflect on the progress we've made. You know, we as Business owners can obviously hit these challenges, hit these walls. And as soon as we hit them, we feel this lack of progress, lack of momentum, and we feel like we're failing. And when we feel like we're failing, it does set us back. Focus on negativity, right? All of these bad feelings. But one of the ways that we can, or maybe two of the ways that we could help bust through that one is focus on small goals, right? If we are having small goals, and it could be answering 10 emails today, or it could be, you know, making one sales call, or it could be having one employee feedback conversation, when you can tick that off. That's a sense. And this is where the dopamine comes in. You've accomplished something. You've ticked it off. You now feel like you're in momentum. And yes, you may still be, you know, constrained by progress. You feel like your business isn't doing it. But those small little wins build up and build up the momentum. The other piece that I think is very important, and I. I emphasize this in everything, and I emphasize this on our financials specifically, but the idea of saying we've hit this progress point where progress has stopped and we feel like we're no longer moving forward, which is very challenging for us as business owners. But one of the things we can do to help with that is to actually reflect on where we've come from. And this is the same for you as a leader, as a business owner, the value of the business, the number of people that you're impacting. But I, you know, I focus a lot of this on financials, because numbers won't lie as well. So if we actually look at your business right now, even though you're not accomplishing maybe what large goals, lofty goals you've set for yourself, if you actually look back over the last 12 months or even the last 24 months, and you see the shift and the transformation and where you've come from. When you reflect back on that, there's a lot of motivation that comes from that. There's momentum to see the progress that you've made, even though you feel like you're not making any, you go back and you reflect on it and you see it and you've got this evidence of what you've been accomplishing. And even if the last two years haven't had the progress, look at where you are right now and think of yourself back in, you know, high school or, you know, earlier and say, look at where I've evolved as a human and where I've Got to today and think of how much progress you've made in that time frame and, and apply that to moving forward. So just thinking where you are today, of where that would be if you stayed on that same sort of track. And by creating this track record and reflecting on progress that's made, we are back in momentum. So reflect back on where you've come from. Create small goals that will help you bust through the idea that things are challenging and that you can accomplish anything.

And let's celebrate that.

Yeah, and celebrate it.

I am not the person I was in high school. Look what I've done.

Yeah.

Well, you know, there's an interesting theory too about business leaders or business professionals to operate similarly to Olympic athletes and you know, train, do the training season and, and you know, work really hard, learn a lot, do all of these things, then run the sprint, deliver the, deliver the project, deliver the presentation, do whatever it takes. And then this period of recovery, which in business, I don't think we really, I don't think as an owner we can even really allow ourselves that moment so much. Oh, what is this space telling me? Why is it here for me? What do I need to appreciate about what I've already done? That's what I heard in that. How can I celebrate that? Why would, why would anybody give me more or why would anybody let this business grow more if I don't appreciate what is here for it right now and what it does right now and who it helps right now? Oh my God, you know, like, oof. We've got so much to offer the world and we need to also recognize.

That and celebrate those wins. Like you said, let's celebrate that and let's celebrate progress instead of just continuing to set unrealistic expectations for ourselves, track where we've come from, celebrate the progress, and that will continue to keep us in momentum. And honestly, when you see these, these small incremental wins in your life, in your business that will bust through that self doubt because you're actually seeing evidence of why you need to believe in yourself because you've done it and if you've done it before, you can do it again.

And I would, you know, from your perspective is if progress is stagnating in one area, do you shift to another? Maybe, you know, oh, where could I progress physically? Where could I progress in my friendships or in my world outside? Because we're, we're holistic beings. We, we. There's a lot we need from, from all of these different places. Yes. We need from purpose and business and we're there to give, but we also need support and fun and, you know, expression. In all of these areas.

We.

Where am I? Where. Where am I? You know, unfocused elsewhere because we start to infuse some other things into our lives, start to get into nature or, you know, work out or spend more time with our friends. And all of a sudden we're showing up to our businesses totally different and our mindsets are expanded and we're. Oh, oh, right, this whole world. And you're taking into account so much more. You're, you're, you're less narrow on. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, it's dipping. It's dipping. Well, you don't create the solution from the level of the problem. Right. So what do you need to do to get out of that? It's not to do more. Do more, do more.

Right, Agreed. Yeah. Kayla, this has been so amazing. I'm looking at the time we've hit an hour of us chatting about this, but it's such a powerful conversation and one that we as entrepreneurs need to continue to have. And guys, Mikayla is the culture coach in my business. Go, bro. Accounting, tax law, advisory. She's also culture coach in our million dollar year coaching program. We have the opportunity to continue to learn from her on a monthly basis in their leading discussions. Just like this. And ultimately, we created our million dollar year program to help entrepreneurs not only financially, which is super important, important, and give them the frameworks to help support them in creating that financial goal and help them realize financial freedom in their lives, but also to give them an opportunity and to give you, as a business owner, an opportunity to have a community of people who are facing the same challenges and continuing to work through. And I know I share my insights and my challenges and failures and what's worked. And Michaela and the other coaches that are in here share those same sorts of frameworks and have those same discussions. And we built this program for people like you and like us to have that community of support and to continue to work together and collaborate to build something incredible. So, Mikhail, I want to thank you for jumping in here and sharing your insights today. For those of you who are watching this one, throw some comments in here with the wealthy entrepreneur podcast. Would love to hear comments, questions, follow ups. You know, are there more discussions you want us to have about this? If you like it like the podcast, share the episode. We want to get this in front of as many entrepreneurs as possible. And if this is relevant for you and you would like to learn more about our million dollar year program. We have a link below for you to connect with our team. We would love to continue to work with business owners who are committed to creating a valuable impact and changing the world together. So check us out there. Once again, super grateful for you being here today, Michaela, and for all of our listeners. Thanks guys. Look forward to seeing you next time.

Thank you so much.