The Power of Persistence in Entrepreneurship Lessons with Dominic Rubino

If I want to sell today, like because I have this crazy idea or I'm frustrated or something happens, that's the time to cool my jets and understand that I'm playing chess, not checkers. Every move has to be contemplated. We have to run our business a certain way so that not that we're sellable. That's the wrong language. If you were really interested in selling your business, you need to be viable. Why does somebody need a business coach? It brings a level of wisdom and perspective that we can't have ourselves.

Good day and welcome to the Wealthy Entrepreneur Podcast. I am your host, Bob Govreau. It is a super great pleasure to have you here today. I'm excited we're going to share some really great insights with you from a great entrepreneur and a business coach today. Before we get started, I just want to remind you that this is the place where we dissect the elements that contribute to entrepreneurial success, from mindset and leadership to profits and revenue. Now, this episode is going to be called Scaling Success. Dominic Rubino on building, selling and coaching contractors to growth. Now, before I bring Dominic in, I want to just share with you a quick bio and let you know that this is going to be an extremely valuable conversation of multiple entrepreneurial journeys. So it's not specific to contractors, but there's going to be a lot of takeaways for this for you and. And I'm excited to be able to share this conversation. So, Dominic Rubino, his bio says some people like to tinker on cars. He likes to tinker on businesses so that they run smooth, perform great, and are fun to be in. He's a serial entrepreneur, proud husband and father, and a horrible fly fisherman. I don't know, I've heard some of his fishing stories. I haven't heard horrible come out of those. I guess that's maybe in comparison to other expert fly fishermen. Cause he'd sure beat me. You might already know Dominic from the two pots podcasts that he hosts. The one is called Profit Tool Belt and the second is called Cabinet Maker Profit Systems. I had the pleasure of being a guest on his Profit Tool Belt podcast. It's a fantastic podcast, easy to talk to, fantastic business advisor and coach. And the last thing I'll say is Dominic is also the author of Construction Millionaire Secrets. This book was written in gray hair and wrinkles. It's a collection of 22 secrets learned and observed in construction trailers, boardrooms, site visits and conference calls with contractors all over the world. For all of you listening today, this is going to Be a real treat, someone who's built a business up to the nine figure value and revenue mark and exited successfully. Lots of insights to be shared with you. A new fast friend of mine and a colleague that I'm happy to refer people to. Excited to welcome to the show, Dominic Romino. Okay, so I, again, you know, the intro is fantastic. I'm really, really excited to have Dominic Rubino in here today. Dominic, how are you today, my friend?

Bob? I'm good. It feels like just yesterday you were.

On my podcast that might have been the case. It wasn't quite yesterday, but it feels like yesterday. Well, listen, my friend, I am, I'm so excited. You know, I did a lot of talking on your podcast. I know a little bit about you wanting to learn more and I'm going to give you that chance in just a second to share that. But, you know, we definitely have a passion for working with both of us with contractors and really helping them live a better life, reach certain levels of success that maybe we've, we've gone through, we've worked with other contractors to help them get there. I would love for you to share your entrepreneurial journey because I don't think, I think you've experienced some things that a lot of people haven't experienced just yet. And I'm sure through listening to your story, your journey, that we're going to be able to, to decipher a lot of actionable items that people need to avoid, take advantage of. So, yeah, I'll turn it over to you, sir.

Okay, well, thank you. And I love your energy. You're great. You're not, you're not the normal accountant.

Oh, I get that a lot.

Yeah. But I also have to say I appreciate that. So let me. The thing I hate most in an intro is when somebody gives this big long spiel and then says, so that was 1987. So. Right. And you're like, oh, so let me ask you where, where would you like me to start?

Well, let's go back to the start of the entrepreneurial journey because I know it, it's not necessarily just specific in, in a contractor space, but let's talk about what got you in there. Maybe some of that journey, some of the highs, some of the lows, some of the things you've learned. And I, I always feel like listening to someone share their story. It's not so much about the success, although we love to see that, to know that you got there, but it's in the, the challenges and what you did to overcome them that I think the greatest learnings are from. So, yeah, I'll leave it to you there. Choose your own adventure and I'll dive in as. As needed.

So, you know, it goes back really, for me to high school. I don't know why. I'm an entrepreneur, and it took me actually a long time to say I'm an entrepreneur because to be honest, it feels scammy at times. You know the word entrepreneur anybody?

Imposter syndrome, too, right? Where you feel like, oh, geez, am I one? I don't know. Yeah.

Yeah. So it. It actually took a long time for me to get there, but it. The first real company that I had was. Well, the first real company I had was organizing lifeguard dances, which was fun. They were called the Rock Lobster Lifeguard Dances. So now everybody knows how old I am. That's a B52s reference. But then I. I started painting houses. Actually. I started by putting Christmas lights on houses. And so I've always been a bit of a goofball. I like having fun. So my Christmas light company is called the Yoho Ho Light Company. And I just. I know, right? It start. That's where it starts, Bob. It goes downhill from here. But you have to imagine I live in the Pacific Northwest. Cedar shake roofs. I borrowed my dad's ladder and I had a staple gun and I did Christmas lights. It's amazing that I'm even alive. It's fully. It's raining. I'm installing Christmas lights. I don't know what I'm doing. I think the first job I did was 200 bucks because I didn't know how to price a job. But I learned a lot there. What I actually learned, I think in my big take, my big takeaway was I don't know what I'm doing. And so right after that, when I did get a chance to go to college, to university, and I joined something called one of the student painting franchises, I didn't know it was a franchise at the time. I thought I was just. I don't know what I thought. But I became a student painter company, and I did really well at that because I wanted their paperwork. I just wanted their stuff. Yeah, I learned to sell and I learned to hire people had no skill, and I learned to manage and motivate them.

And, you know, it's funny, I met a ton of people who've gone through maybe the student works, and I don't know which one. Which one it was for you, but a lot of people have gone through that. And I remember looking at that myself going, how cool is this for someone who is a high performer, wants to work hard and learn some of the elements of business. You know, I had an opportunity to work in a retail place in sales when I was young, which was a fantastic experience as well. Like anybody who can get sales experience, younger, my God, how that will help drive your future success. Dealing with. Dealing with no's.

Yeah, you want to get to the point where you have ice water in your veins where somebody says no and you're like, just that just meant no, not right now. Let's keep talking. Yeah.

And the value of persistence and follow up.

Yeah, polite persistence. I mean, we could go down the sales path as well because I have some, obviously some professional sales in my background, but the ability to go out there and say, look, if somebody's going to do your Christmas lights or somebody's going to do your painting or somebody's going to fix your deck, I hope it's me because at least I know I'm going to do a good job. And that's maybe all you need to do to sell the next renovation job or kitchen or roofing. Like, I hope it's us because I know who else is out there. And golly, I hope we can do it because I know what we're going to do. I don't know what they're going to do.

Yeah. So, all right, take me. We've got the Christmas lights business that's gone. It's likely funded post secondary education or at least some enjoyment.

No, actually there's a funny story in the middle of that. So because I was a lifeguard, I started to teach kids to swim in their, in the backyard pools. And it just kind of happened. You know, I met a family, they're like, oh, can you teach our kids to swim? I'm like, yeah, I'll do it in your pool, but I'll teach your kids for free if you invite other kids and I charge them. So that happened. And then because I've got a big mouth, I started cleaning pools. And so I cleaned this pool, then I cleaned the neighbor's pool. And I have like seven or eight pools I'm cleaning. It's not big. So I'm still in university at the time, right. I'm standing in the, I want to call it the spa store where you go buy chlorine and bromine and the scrubbers. It's just where people buy hot tubs, right? So I'm standing there, I got a bunch of stuff in my arms and a guy taps me on the shoulder and says, hey, you want to sell your company, Bob? I just go, yeah, 20 grand. And that was it. That was the answer. Right? So nothing. Right. I just go back to life. This conversation's nothing. It's just some guy at the pool store. So now dial it forward a couple of weeks. I'm at somebody's pool. Now, you got to remember, this is the 80s. I've got the Walkman, you know, the yellow Walkman on my head, the headphones on, the big, huge pool pole. My socks are, you know, up to my knees. It's the 80s, right. And of course, I look good because I'm hoping their daughter's home watching me clean the pool.

Right.

You know exactly what's going on.

The shirt. The shirt is off.

No, I've. I have never been that guy, but. Yeah, but I've cleaned the pool, and some guy comes through the gate, and I've got this big pool pole in my hand. I'm like, hey, who the hell are you? And I'm, like, waving the pool pole. He's like, dude, dude, dude, you know, will, will you take a little less? And I'm like, for what? He goes for the company. I'm like, yeah. So I was ready to go back to school, and I just sold him my, like, a broken pool pump and, like, seven or eight accounts, and I got a couple of grand for that. And I went. And I was in university. I drank it. Basically. That was it. So that was actually my first exit. I forgot. Until we were on this track. Yeah, yeah. He. He got divorced. He got divorced and needed to reinvent himself. And he was a pool guy in another city and moved here, and it was his start.

Yeah, it worked. Okay, so, all right, we've got lights. We've got pool, lifeguard, lifeguard dances and parties like this. What was the next evolution for you?

Well, painting businesses. And then you know what? I went into corporate. I did. I went and worked for Sprint. I really got trained at Sprint. Sprint was like a gladiatorial combat for sales. There were. The whole city was split into four quadrants. Each quadrant had four guys competing from the same company in it, and that was just our company. There was all the other companies there, too, and you either had to sink or swim. And. And I lasted there for. Telecom is like, dog years. So I say I was there for seven years, but it was really 49.

Certainly felt that way.

Yeah. I mean, it's sleeping under my desk. Really intense sales. I eventually moved up through that, and then I became the Sales manager for the prairie provinces. Sort of the middle. Middle of North America. And that's where I got into coaching, actually.

Okay, yeah, well, that makes sense because you were coaching other salespeople.

Coaching other salespeople. But also when I became the sales manager, I was taking care of these. They're called interconnects. And so it's when you go to a small town, you don't have the big phone company. You've got this little company that does your cables, your wiring, probably your low voltage alarm system, and then also sells you the long distance package. It's all. And we were the long distance guys. So how do I make an entree into those companies? They don't want to hear from me. And they went to school with all the other guys. I'm the new guy coming into town. So what I did is I started running their sales meetings. Then I started showing them how to put metrics in place. I started showing them how to turn the business around. And Sprint said, hey, how come you know about this stuff? I'm like, I don't know. I'm a small business guy. So they put me into coach training.

Okay.

And then eventually I'm like, I like this better than telecom. So I left and I became a business coach on my own. And that's 24 years ago now. Yeah, 24. 20. 24. It was 2000 when I left.

Geez. How's that feeling for making you age? You know? Yeah. Old. I know. Like, oh, I got enough gray in here. Yeah. I'm joining you.

I've always had hair, just not this color. Hair. Yeah.

Okay, so. So you venture into coaching, and I. You've been doing that for quite some time. Did you have other things going on while you were doing coaching?

I did. How did you know to even ask that question?

Well, I'm trying to get it out of you because I know that there's even more interesting things that you've gone through in your journey.

So I started to do really well as a business coach. And. And by the way, the definition for that is, are your clients getting results? That's the definition of doing well as business coach. So I was part of a international coaching group, and I was asked to speak at a conference on how I was getting clients, how I was getting client results. And so, Bob, I'm just about to go on stage and a guy I know catches me backstage. He goes, dom, I got this client, but he won't return my phone calls. Can you tell me how to sell to him? And so I Said, cool your jets. That's not a client.

Right.

That's not even a prospect. That's a suspect. And he goes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Just tell me how to sell them. And I go, well, what does he do? It turns out he sold mail order pharmaceuticals by mail order online. And I thought, well, at this time, not only was I a business coach, but I was selling. Do not sip your coffee right now. It's going to come out your nose. Oh, I was. I was selling used junk on ebay.

Yeah.

Because I was done, like, mentally. I was out of the game with Sprint. I didn't like corporate, and so I started selling, you know, on. On ebay.

Side hustle.

Yeah, it was a side hustle, right. I was selling used calculators, used LED games like Atari and Colecovision games, and just junk, right? But what I call junk, other people would pay $40 for. I'd buy it for a dollar at a garage sale and sell it for 40. Good side gig.

It's the Gary Vee model.

Is it?

Yeah.

Well, tell them to stop using my model.

Okay, It's.

But it's that model, right? Just reselling stuff that people wanted to collect. So any. The reason I say that is because I was already set up. I kind of. I don't want to say I had infrastructure that is fancy words for nothing, but I knew how to ship stuff after I sold it, basically. Anyways, I go up on stage and do my piece, and then I come off the stage and I call my cousin. My cousin and I are both doing this little side hustle together just for fun. And I go, hey, did you know we could sell over the counter medications online? And this is where I want you to go back to the Sopranos, because two Italian cousins disagreeing on a private phone call is a pretty spicy conversation, right? So you know all the words that we're using. But he's like, no, there's no way we can. I'm using very clean language. There's no way we can. You're an idiot. And you put all the extra words in there you want because that's what he said. I go, no, you're an idiot. Yes, we can. So we have this back and forth. Anyways, I call him later that day and I'm like, hey, you know, how's it going? He goes, I can't talk to you. I can't beep and talk to you. I'm too beep and busy. I'm like, why? He goes, well, I just listed. I just put a picture of aspirin online and we just sold it and made 40 bucks. I gotta go to Costco and buy it now. And so we flipped around the procurement model. We sold stuff before we bought it. So I'm just gonna dial it forward or it'll take the whole show. It took four years to get that business to 120 million in sales.

Wow.

Four years of doing what I learned to do as a business coach, what I learned to do at Sprint. Turning around low voltage electrical install companies. It's just the business of business. Put systems in place, hire the right people, train the heck out of them, support them and keep going. Yeah, you know, that's it.

Wow, that's a big business. And so four years and then you sold?

I sold well, yeah. And so my cousin and I stopped agreeing on things. And Bob, you're a cpa. You see this money is a magnifier. And so whoever you are poor, you're more of that wealthy. And we just diverged. We did not see eye to eye. So he's still my cousin, but we're no longer business partners. So I sold it internally, you know, but at that point you ask, well, how did you get to 120 million? Well, I had a call center and I had a pharmacy operation. I had 40 pharmacists working for me. Well, pharmacists and pharmacy technicians in really a production facility like a horseshoe shaped conveyor belt where pharmacists were filling orders. And then we had a call center of 120 people which came from my telecom background. Right. So I start. I just merged these things together and stack them and. And then I sold it.

And all of this came from an idea of someone asking a question that they wanted you to solve and you really solved it in a big way.

I solved it, yeah. And I didn't know better. I just, I'm the king of getting my head kicked in and standing up and going again.

Yeah. Which is truly that. That's part of the journey.

Yeah. I'm not afraid to fail, I guess. And I don't like it. It's a horrible thing to be good at failing. But what are you going to do? Be scared and small the rest of your life? I'm not, I'm not up for that either.

Yeah. And you know what? I. I talk about this a lot. And so for any of the listeners who've been following me, resiliency as an entrepreneur is a skill that you need to learn. It's definitely something that can be learned because when you initially start, you're like, man, this is. This is too hard. And that's why a lot of people don't do it. Right. You get your head kicked in, you get rejection, you get, you know, people trying to tear you down. And. And, you know, it's the perseverance, the resiliency of, you know, being determined to succeed. And it sounds like you've done just that. So, okay, you've been business coaching. You built this business, you sell it, and then you're all in on coaching. Is that what sort of happened after that?

Yeah, I'm all in on coaching, but I. Out of respect for the audience, can I go back a little bit?

Absolutely.

I want to go back to the painting thing because I don't want to make it sound like, oh, this guy kind of tripped for. He's like some sort of Forrest Gump. I know. I'm not.

Hey, I'd like that story.

I know. It's life is like a box of chocolates, right? No, I. You talked about resiliency. It comes with, like, some serious pain, and I don't particularly care to go into it too much, but I remember driving through an intersection, hoping to get hit by another car. Like, life was that bad. And I was a painter. I had a van, crappy van, that eventually ended up getting. What do you call it when the police put tape around it? You can't drive it anymore. It was just a crappy van anyways. I. But I remember driving through an intersection, and my life was just. It was horrendous. Customer problems, staff problems, cash flow, couldn't pay people, couldn't finish jobs. And I just remember having that fleeting thought, driving through an intersection, please let me get hit by another car. Like some excuse to take me out of the game. So I don't want, you know, it's easy for us, you and I, to laugh, and we're sort of 20 plus years into this, but, man, there were some dark days. Dark, dark days. I couldn't afford to fix my own car. My girlfriend had to take me out for our anniversary and pay for everything. Yeah.

That.

You do not stand tall. Like, that is not a good day. So I appreciate you talking about resiliency, but I don't want to take away from people listening who are in the middle of it now. It gets better if you keep going.

Yeah. And. And I would say, too, maybe just to add onto that, it gets better. But if you're anything like me, who is driven by continuing to reinvest heavily, you kind of put yourself back in that space. At all times. Right. And there's like a little bit of a, I talk about this, I'm like, there's a little bit of an illness in here because, you know, it doesn't feel good. You don't want to be there. Yet you put yourself back in that place constantly because, you know, you're driven by something that's bigger than you. And, and I'm sure a lot of people are relating with that right now too, because it's, it happens.

So I got it. I don't want to keep derailing it, but I'm going to put an exclamation part, exclamation mark. And what you just said. I was driving back from some, probably I was going fishing or something and I was hungry, but I didn't, I, I, I didn't want to listen to the radio anymore. And so I, I said to myself, do I stop and get food or do I stop and buy a book on tape? But I only had the money to do one and I bought the book on tape and drove hungry. That, like, that was, I appreciate you saying that because you just reminded me, like a conscious decision to go hungry. But get what. Eating was not going to make me better in life. Trust me. I got some, I got a, I got a couple of weeks of insurance on me.

You may not have at the time, though, right? You may not have at the time. And like, that's sort of the epitome of the success story too, right? Is that you, you get to a point where you're not as hungry, but you get to consciously decide whether or not you're buying the meal or you're going to continue to reinvest in yourself and, you know, you've got to a spot where there's a little bit more of a safety net. Right. You've got a little bit more to burn, but you're still choosing.

You still have to make the choice in the future. Yeah. And I wonder if you see this as well, but money does not solve problems. Cleverness solves problems. You can throw money at problems all day long, they're not going to go away. But if you get clever and you attack that problem, like, I mean, attack it. You can run towards it like a bully in a schoolyard. Guess what? Oh, I was just kidding. Goes away. But if I run away, it chases me. So I like to go forward at problems first and fast.

It can be terrifying. No, 100%. And so appreciate that story as well, because I think, you know, if you look at anyone who's been On a successful journey. I actually just posted something about this the other day because it, it sort of pisses me off when I start hearing about the, oh, you know, build this lifestyle business, you know, where you never have to work and blah, blah, blah. And, you know, at some point I start getting a little frustrated with this because that's not a reality of how you create a level of success like that. It just doesn't happen that way.

It's. I can see the Instagram post. It's some kid in a hot tub with a Lamborghini behind him, Right? Yeah, it's some ridiculous, like, you could live my life. Sure, it's your parents money or it's a prop or it's. I don't know what it is, but that's not, Hey, I give them all the props for doing it.

Sure. And truthfully, they're likely my client. Right. And you know what I mean? Like, we've got 2500 clients and I'll see these posts and God, I love my clients and I'll serve them in every way I can to help them get to the next level. But, you know, I'll see some posts from, you know, let's say a marketing agency that's going, yeah, you know, we'll just, we'll just come in and we'll 10x your business with all this. And I'm like, but you're not doing it to yours. How are you going to do it to theirs?

Okay, thank you for saying that. Do you know what made me better at business? And by the way, I've still got a long way to go being a business coach, because let's use you as the example. I'm in a meeting with you and we're talking about your business. So I'm here to serve you. But as I'm saying, you know, Bob, who's your ideal client and how are you serving that client? What else could you be doing? In the back of my head, I'm like, oh, Rubino, you're not doing that. And so, you know, the left page is for you, the right page is for me. Like, Dom, after this meeting with Bob, go do this, go do that. And so I'd be silly not to take my own advice if the advice is proven and sound. So I appreciate you saying that because that's what I would do.

Oh, 100%. I do the same thing. You know, I talk about cash flow. I'm like, stop doing work and collecting money after the fact. And then I'll have someone who's hard up has a good soul, great mission and I'll do it and I'll be collecting money and you know, after the fact and I'm going, man, oh man, we, if we all just took our own advice, we'd be a lot better. Okay, let's, let's move on past this. But thank you for sharing your story, including the resiliency of what it, you know, the, the challenges you went through in the early stages. Because I feel like that that again resonates with so many people. I had a, a client who is a family business met with them yesterday. They've had all kinds of levels of success and then all of a sudden they get blindsided with, you know, maybe one of life's greatest challenges. You know, we're all going to go through it, we have to be prepared for it. And it's how we deal with these challenges that really shows who we are and, and is an element of that success. So thank you for sharing that. I think it's invaluable for people to hear those stories. Let's talk about selling and exiting a business because you know, you've built up a multi hundred million dollar plus revenue line business. There's a lot, one, there's a lot that takes to build that business and it's almost like a unicorn to be honest because, because it doesn't happen. And you know, I actually, just a quick side story, had a meeting with, with someone who does acquisitions and roll up strategies yesterday. And, and I told him, I said, well, my goal is to build a hundred million dollar professional services business and I'm about 15% of the way there and we've got momentum to get us there. I know the path, you know, and he was talking about acquisitions would get you there faster. And I'm going, yes, that's 100% true. But when I said it to him, I was like, I also want you to know that this isn't a bullshit. I want to hit $100 million because I know it doesn't happen. And we have to have a plan like for you to get to your hundred million dollars, you had a plan, you knew the infrastructure, you knew the processes, you knew how to build out the sales team. Like all of those elements had to be put together in order to get there. And I know we could probably talk hours about what went into that. But let's talk about the exit side. So you've built this business, you're ready to exit. What does that look like? What did that process look like? What can we learn from your experience and share that with our listeners.

Yeah. So thank you. It's a good, great, great prelude into it. So I've exited two of my own companies. Well, I've exited a lot of them. The crappy ones that I just shut down.

Well, including the pool business.

Yeah. Oh yeah, I forgot, I keep forgetting about that and then I forget about the crapola ones that I just shut. Right. But you know, the other significant one was I took a company from a loss position to 7 million. So yeah, the first one was a unicorn. But I can repeat that process and you nailed it, Bob. It's a plan actually. I don't know if you can see the books behind me. There's two books that work. Traction is one of them. Right. And that one's written by Gino Wickman. That's a strategic planning book. And I use that one for the $7 million business. And then this one here called Scaling Up. I use that for the $120 million business mostly because that was the only one out at that time. Scaling up by Vern Harnish. Vern's a genius. He started eo. He's just a great, very influential, wise awesome guy. But he's got a good system there for turning around a business. To be honest. That one's for bigger businesses with like VPs and directors and like a big cascading shadow under each, you know, piece of the org chart for most of the mid sized market. Traction is an excellent book for turning around a business. But it doesn't matter what system you use. Just use a system and stick to it.

Have to have one and the system being, here's who's responsible for what and how you hold them accountable really is, is it, you know, and what, what's driving the outcomes for them. You're right. You have to have a system, especially if you get, you know, I would say for us when we hit 50 people, we didn't have one and started to lose, I started to lose focus on how we could deliver everything until we implemented that system. And then it changed, it changed things. And I feel like you have to constantly go back and I don't want to derail your comments here, but I feel like we have to constantly go back and revisit it and re tighten it up. You know, you put in a template, let's review it, let's make it better. You know, maybe move from Scaling up to Traction. Incorporate what Traction was using what Geno put in there, some of the tools, tricks that make your system better. So for everyone out there, just continuous learning.

Continuous learning. So what you said, and I'm going to put words in your mouth apologetically, is actually the system. So let's use traction as the example. And we do this all day. I've got a team myself, we're at four coaches right now. And all of my coaches are also contractors or sold their contracting business. And so we'll work with a contractor and we help them put a strategic plan in place which is what's your 10 year vision? What's your three year? What's your one year? And then from your one year, what do we need to do in the next quarter? But then every quarter we go back and we look at the plan again. So we're always shoulder checking the original plan. And then the coaching meetings. All we're doing is working towards the quarterly plan. And so you just naturally, you're just moving in that direction and we're trying to pull you towards something instead of push because naturally that's the conversations you have when the coach isn't around. Hey, you know, we're working on that new software implementation or we really have to bring down our labor costs on the next estimate. How do we do that? That just becomes how your company talks because it's part of your big plan against what you want to accomplish in 10 years.

100%. And I'm going to do a selfish plug in here too. All of these coaching mechanics and these systems are backed by good financial data, guys, right? These don't work. You're tracking your plan, having one, oh my God, have one set goals, be specific with them, have a path to get there and then track the metrics and the financial outcomes related to it because so many businesses are running blind and Dominic, you haven't heard me speak too much. I use this one metaphor often. I talk about going into a basketball game and showing up halfway through. There's so much movement, so many shots, three points, two points and you look up and there's no score. You have no idea who's winning, losing. And the coach on the bench has no idea what strategy to implement, whether it's full offense or full court defense. You know, what are we doing to try and win? We don't know unless you have your metrics. So that's my selfish plug and my.

Okay, but let's triangulate that plug. You and I come from different angles into the business, right? Two different entry points into the business line. One of the strategic plan is sales. What are you going to do in sales? Line 2 is gross profit, Right. Because a business exists to generate profits for the owner. We've got all these polite things. Oh, we exist to help serve people and serve cookies to the world. Okay, sure. A business exists to solve problems for other people and generate profits for the owner. Anybody want to debate it, give me a call. That's what we do. If you aren't doing that, you're doing something else. But if you're truly running a business, you're solving other people's problems and you get paid to do that. And that is in. You get paid in profits. You got to track the numbers.

So here's what I know. We've got two passionate guys in here who could go off track.

Where are they? Get them in here. Where?

Yeah, because. Because we clearly, you know, care very much about those that we serve. You know, you can feel that in here. So I'm going to pull us back and I'm going to say, let's talk about your exit.

Oh, sorry, that was the opening question.

Gee, yeah, but we did that together. We both jumped in with both feet. But let's get back to the exit because again, fairly unique business, the size of a business, less than 1% of businesses ever get to that scale. You learned a lot going through this exit. What are some takeaways for any of our listeners and our audience of what we need to prepare for to get ready to exit?

So to get ready to. Thank you. Act strategically. So the, the worst, you know, in both cases, I had partners. And so, you know, they're different exits with different situations. But you have to. I found that I had to act strategically. So if I want to sell today, like because I have this crazy idea or I'm frustrated or something happens, that's the time to cool my jets and understand that I'm playing chess, not checkers. Every move has to be contemplated. Every move. There's an echo there. The butterfly effect. What am I doing? And so setting myself up for long term success is important. And now, I mean, we're right in your realm. Look, the books have to be done a certain way to sell for a certain amount. And if I back up from that, we have to run our business a certain way so that. Not that we're sellable. That's the wrong language. If you were really interested in selling your business, you need to be buyable. If that, if that one difference in words helps you change the angle of approach, then you've just made millions listening to one episode. You need to be viable. I want to see recurring revenues. I want to See contracts in place. I want to see employment contracts in place. I want to have an organizational chart. I want to have sops in the business. Make it so that when somebody comes to buy your business, you know, because they're looking at two or three, they look at your business and go, well, this one runs like a clock. It's got things to fix, but they're already doing it. These other ones are a disaster. Let's go buy this one from Rubino. Let's pay him a little extra because he's already done a bunch of the work. Why would we buy these other train wrecks? They don't know the numbers, they don't know the score, they don't know the team, they don't know the competition. You're going to get sold or you're going to get bought, to use my language. So I would start there and stop so that you can ask me another question. Or I'll keep going. I know I'm going to keep going.

No, that, no, that's fantastic. And I think, you know, that's so true. It's really how you run your business. One of the challenges that I typically see with our owners and you know, there's lots of different ways that you can evaluate it, but one of the challenges that I see is that the businesses are so much of their identity. Not only one, that they, they don't want to exit because they're too emotionally attached to it, but two, that a potential buyer is looking to buy that business and they're going, we can't buy you. Right. And part of that is the systems and having the organization work in a framework that if you're eliminated, that it still carries on without you. And, you know, that's super, super valuable advice, Dominic. So appreciate that. You know, let's, let's leave the, the sale piece there because, and maybe, maybe you know what, we have another episode where we talk specifically about that in the future about the exit process and dive a little bit deeper. But let's think, you know, from the coaching standpoint and not even just contractors, but, you know, I think a lot of, you know, we can get into with contractors, specific ways that they should be pricing their projects and project costing and stuff like that, that's very specific. But when we think about, you know, the contractors or, sorry, just any entrepreneur, what are maybe your top things that they could do in order to grow and scale their business just like you did in your, in your hundred plus.

Million business, it's going to sound very simple, but it is simple.

Love that.

Clearly understand your priorities, put them in order and deal with number one first. The difficulty there is you must ignore number two, three, seven, 12 and 29. Now I'm not trying to be dumb here. Right?

You're so right.

That's it. Now listen, dealing with number one on the list might only take you five minutes and then you've got to run everything else in the company. But number one has to be dealt with on a daily basis. Once you've dealt with number one, you can go to number two and number 29. But don't confuse number 29 with number one. Otherwise we get caught up in doing the even. To say insignificant is disrespectful. I'm saying that against what are you. What do you want to achieve once you know that? Set your priorities. Number one is number one. And just work on that dog on a bone. Just work it.

And when you look at that. And so first off, guilty is charged. You know, I like number 29.

And it's hard. This is a really hard exercise.

It is hard. So thinking of how the prioritization ranking works, you know, my. What anything that I've learned is that you, you try and prioritize things. When you think of what's moving the needle the farthest or has the greatest urgency and, and if you don't deal with it immediately, it's going to cause a problem. What's your approach to prioritizing the top 10 list?

So first of all, understand that in the beginning it's harder than it is in the end or you know, toward the anything coming out of a stasis. Like if you're moving a big rock, the hardest part is just getting the rock to move a little bit. So let me make the situation even harder, Bob. Let's say I've got a partner. Yeah, no, but no, this happens, right? We've got a partner who isn't really interested in changing the way I'm interested in changing and is very conservative when it comes to making any moves. My list of the top 10 is very different than his. I'll say it's a guy. I'm okay with that. So you asked me what I'd do first. I would get agreement some. I have to have that conversation and I'd find out for my partner what they want to move. If they are the sticking point, that is number one. What their number one is, is now my number one. Let's. You're right. We do the. The walls in this office are the wrong color. I can't believe you said that it's the wrong tone of green, we should paint the office. And they're like, I've been saying it for years. You're right. Let's do that. By the way, number two on my list is getting proper financial controls. Well, let's paint the office first. Right? I'm just saying something ridiculous. But my number one is actually not anything. You see, It's. It's getting my business partner or some influencer to move. So that strategy requires actually a lot of thought. You know, one, in the first sale that I made, my. One of my partners was purely driven by ego. His ego. I mean, he'd give Gene Simmons a run for his money, right? Gene Simmons can have his own room when my. When my head won't fit through the door, right. And so I was like, how do I come up like this? It was a partnership by accident with that guy. And so eventually I sat back and I said, well, if his superpower is his ego, let's use his ego as my asset. And so my job was to make everything his idea. Because once it was his idea, it was the only idea in the world. And guess what happened?

Your priorities list got taken care of.

Because they were his idea. Yeah, yeah. And. And it's strategy. You know, there's a really good book called Sun Tzu, the Art of War. And you know, I won't do the quotes any, any justice, but there is a lot of talk in that book about how to strategically arrange things so. So they move in the right direction. And it's not always a direct course of action. So you really have to think about these things. And this, this is. If you ask why, why does somebody need a business coach? I'm not trying to make an ad for me. I don't care. I don't need you as a client. I don't need anybody as a client. But you need somebody to have perspective. It's like going to the gym. I. I know you know how to do a pushup. It's not hard. You can. There's a thousand videos online on how to do a pushup, but who's going to say, do one more? Who's going to say your elbows are out and that's why your shoulders hurt? Who's going to say, well, actually, we should modify your push up because your shoulders are injured. Why are you doing push ups? That's what a business coach does. It brings a level of wisdom and perspective that we can't have ourselves.

Were you talking to my personal trainer this week or something? Tom, if you're listening, stop that. Those sessions are private. Yes, my elbows were out.

We were fixing something under my truck yesterday, my son and I. And my son's 15, right? So he leaps up and I get up like I'm 56, because I'm 56. And I'm like, I do burpees every morning at my gym. How come it's hard for me to get up now at, what was it, 6, 30 at night? It's just because I hadn't warmed up. I need 10 minutes of warmup and 20 minutes of other things to do. One burpee, right? He jumps up like an elastics been shot from a cannon. Right?

I know my, my son's 16 too, and you know, sometimes it's unfair, but you know what the reality is, guys? You know, what a great analogy to business. You know, some people have the ability to adapt faster. Smaller teams, more nimble, more resources, and we've got to compete with them. And so, you know, we need to find our strategy to continue to move forward. And sometimes we can't see our strategy because we're doing our bench press with our elbows out. And I can't see because I'm trying to not let this weight crush me, you know, and that's where we can have a coach. And. And I am going to promote you because I think you're a fantastic coach and your insights are invaluable. You've been there, you've done it. You know, I think that that is a key attribute to someone who's guiding someone to success, is someone who's been there and done that. And it's true. You know, we need a coach. I go to my. I go to my personal trainer for that exact reason. Because first off, if I have to show up for me, I probably won't. So I have to show up for him because he will call me if I don't show up and he'll be mad at me. And I don't want. I'm a people pleaser. I don't want people to be mad at me. And two, he'll tell me that I'm doing three more than I thought I could even do. And he's like, I got you, you know, and. And to your point, that's what a good coach is. It makes you stronger and it pushes you harder and keeps you more on track to your goals than you would yourself. So 100% completely agree with you there. Let's talk about the future trends in the contracting space like before, before you jump in we were talking a bit offline and I said, wow, has the contracting space ever been sexier to investors? Like it really right now, if you're a contractor out there, even a business that has gotten to a certain scale with a certain element of profitability, there are buyers out there more than there have ever been buyers out there. So. So let's talk about what the future trends are in the contracting industry, and maybe that's one of them.

Sure. Well, for sure there is more money floating around than ever before for contracting. And I think there's a certainty to contracting that we love. Right. Contracting has its problems, one of them being that in schools we keep pushing our kids towards be a doctor, be a lawyer, be an accountant, be. No offense, you know, we need people.

To be pushed towards accountants. We're dropping like flies here. But yeah, you're right, it's, be a teacher, go work for the government. You know, it's. And let people choose their own path.

Yeah. And some people are really good mechanically and they're never, it's never going to go out of style. So think for a second about your neighborhood, where you live. And now if you could float up above, you know, Google Earth, above your neighborhood, neighborhood and look down, I don't know, you'd be able to see. But how many of your neighbors have ladders? How many of your neighbors own their own ladder? Probably not very many anymore. Right. How many have a toolkit that's not from Walmart, so are they able to fix their hot water tank or a leaky sink? Okay, maybe you got a few, maybe you have none. But now the people who have access and skills on those tools become more valuable. Okay? So now let's take into account time. It takes me an hour to drive to work, then I work all day, then I drive an hour back, so that's two hours out of my day. Still got to get my daughter to softball, my son to soccer or football, and by the way, my wife wants to go to choir practice. I don't have time to go up on the roof and possibly fall and impact my job, which brings my family the money. So what goes up in value? A contractor who comes by and fixes the flashing on the fireplace or installs Christmas lights. Some kid like me, right there has never, ever in this world been a better time to be a contractor than right now, ever.

And the numbers are dropping.

I know, right?

So not only is the demand going up, but the supply is going down. And you're like, it's a perfect economic model for futures Future profitability, financial success. You know, like everything is aligned. The opportunities are there.

Yeah, and then you mentioned imposter syndrome earlier. And this happens a lot because I deal with contractors and they're, you know, they feel like they don't. They. They haven't made it because they go back to their high school reunion and like, everybody else is in a suit and they're all bad. I'm like, dude, what are you talking about? Yeah, he drives a Porsche, but he probably leases it. You have three brand new Ford F150s and a Sprinter van and a warehouse. But from the outside is like, well, Jerry drives Porsche. Yeah, Jerry leases the Porsche and he's got one job. You're running four contracts right now for a total value. Like it doesn't matter whether all four are 50 grand or 500 grand. But people tend to look at others and say, well, I don't match up to that standard. Instead of saying, well, hang up. You're about to pass this business on to your son or your daughter. You're building legacy or exit a nine.

Figure business, you know?

Yeah, you know, you pull up to the light in your truck and they pull up in their Porsche or Mercedes, but they lease it. You own yours and six others.

I like my Ford F150.

I like my Toyota 4Runner. I love my 4Runner.

Listen, I can go there wearing the suit too, but I still pull up in my Ford F150.

Yeah, more functional, but you know what I mean. We always think that we haven't made it because we don't have the toys. And what are you really trying to build? I'll tell you one of the most impactful stories to me, and this one I was able to help with was a guy who said, I need to make more money out of my company. Okay, I've heard that a thousand times. I've heard that 10,000 times. Why do you need to make more money? So we go through this whole rigmarole, but finally it comes down to he put his mom in a home. And his mom had raised him. She was a single mom. Dad was never part of his life, but now that his mom is in a home, she's in a quad. So it's her and three other people. And one of the other ladies in there has dementia or so anyway, she's yelling and screaming all night. His mom can't sleep. And he looks. This is a big guy. His hand looks like a bagel with breakfast sausages sticking out of it. He's a massive guy. He's Just about to, like, get emotional. And he goes, dom, she raised me, and I got to take care of her now when she needs me most, I got to get her in a single, like, a private room. His entire company was running just so he could get his mom in a private room. Like, that's driven. That is why you do it, right? That's purpose. So did he. He doesn't need the Porsche. He doesn't need the big house. He needs to take care of his mom because she took care of him. That was his entire being wrapped up in that. We've got so many stories like that of just good guys, good people trying to run good businesses to take care.

Of somebody else and also transform the lives of those that they're serving. You know, thinking of, you know, all the contractors that are out there that are putting additions on to accommodate the family member that's moving in with people, you know, making it more mobility, accessible as people are aging. You know, the work that you're doing is. Is incredible. There's so much purpose attached to that. But, yeah, if you can identify your own purpose as well, you know, makes it even more powerful, for sure. And back to the opportunity side. You know, I do feel like not even just contracting businesses, but entrepreneurship is certainly, as a theme, has gotten stronger. But here's what I would say, is that, you know, I'm going to make a prediction that entrepreneurship is going to see greater failure rates in the future. And the reason is, is that everyone looks at the success stories and says, oh, isn't that nice? Must be easy. Let's make it back to my little lifestyle rant earlier. You know what? It looks easy. Everybody gets Fridays off. You know, they get to be with their families. They've maybe got some of the toys. I can do that. And you need some drive to get in here, and you need a place plan. If you don't have a plan, you're just not going to get there.

Yeah, it's going to be frustrating. I wish I'd had a plan sooner, and I didn't.

I agree. Dominic, this has been a pleasure. I want to ask you one last question. If you had one piece of advice, sort of wrapping up everything that we've talked about today, one sort of action item, piece of advice for our audience today, what would be that takeaway for them?

I think you actually already made it, which was, you need a plan. Have a plan. If your plan is to have no plan, congrats, you're on track. You're doing good.

That's a bad Plan. There's good plans and there's bad plans.

But if that's your plan, you know, either way, be proactive about your business. If you really want to take this seriously, be proactive. There's a great book called the E. Myth Revisited by Michael Gerber. Go read that. Be in the entrepreneur mode, not the technician mode. And let me add, if somebody wants to talk to me on the side, maybe they disagree with one of my points. Maybe they agree, maybe talk to me, reach out to me. I'm not hard to find, but I'm happy to continue the conversation because everybody's situation is unique. It's different, but you got to have a plan. Imagine, imagine if your kids went to school and the teacher said, I don't know, we're just going to kind of wing it this year.

That's not what happens in your kids school experience.

I don't know, don't get me started on that. But right. Or imagine if you said, hey, we're going to take a family trip and we're going to Hawaii. Like, okay, well that's good. So we've got a family trip that fits my values and goals. We've got a destination Hawaii. Now what's the vehicle to get me there? And you guys go, well, let's drive. You're like, okay, that plan's got a flaw, right? You don't have the right vehicle to get there. You could go to Hawaii. Absolutely. But you cannot drive.

Yes. I don't know. Yeah, I'd like to. I'd like to see that plan actually follow through. Listen, Dominic, this has been awesome. I love collaborating with you, my friend. I look forward to doing this so much more in the future. Just a quick couple notes. Dominic does have two podcasts, the Profit Tool Belt and the Cabinet Maker Profit System. In fact, I was just a guest on the Profit Tool Belt there last week. Fantastic interview, easy to listen to. I could listen to you all day, Dominic. It's certainly a pleasure to have you listen to my audience. Thank you for being here today. Lots of tidbits. Specifically, have a plan, have a destination, understand your pathway to get there. I think that's a huge takeaway for everybody. It also, you know, there's going to be wrinkles in the, in the path, on the way. Be prepared for it. Let's continue to learn from those. Let's be strong and persevere through it. It's not going to be easy, but we believe in you ultimately. At the end of the day, if you like this podcast, please hit like, please drop in a comment. We would love to hear from it. Make sure you're following so that you get access to the next release. We release a podcast every single week. We would love you to be on this journey with us. If there's someone that you know that. That needs to hear the advice that was shared today, please share this with them. I can speak for Dominic and I both. We're on a mission to empower entrepreneurs to live a better life, to realize greater impact, and ultimately to change the world together. So thank you guys for being here. Dominic, thank you once again, my friend, and look forward to seeing you guys again next week.