Brad Hart interviews Jeff Walker

Welcome to make more marvels. My name is Brad Hart and I'm so grateful and excited today to be talking to the one, the only, Mr. Jeff Walker. How are you, sir?

I'm doing very well, thanks.

Brad, I'm so grateful to have you on the show and I was just saying right before we jumped on, I've spent a lot of time with your brother but I'm actually never actually met you in person, so this is the first time. But I followed your work for a long time. I've read launch, I've recommended to a lot of my friends and now you have a new version. Can you tell us a little bit about that?

Yeah, it just came out a couple weeks ago. Here it is. There we go. So the first edition was. It's been seven years. Almost exactly seven years. First Edition was a New York Times number one New York Times bestseller. And yeah, no, it was cool. It was cool. But so seven years, things change. So I just went through massive update upgrade, enhanced, refreshed, there's 100 new pages, three new chapters, all kinds of new.

Material, A lot of great case studies and things like that. People.

Yeah, yeah. I tell you, Brad, I don't know. Have you written a book? You have?

I've written three actually. So one is called the Choice, one is called the 8 Minute Mastermind and one is called the 8 Minute Money Manager. The Mastermind one really took off. We sold about 10,000 copies of that so far.

Oh, nice.

Which is good for a book. Most people don't understand. Like most of the books you see in Barnes and Noble haven't sold a thousand copies. So to sell 10,000 in a week is like New York Times bestseller. If you sell it in ever. That's pretty good.

Yeah, I saw. It's just like the number of books that sell 10,000 copies is like, it's like less than 1%.

Yeah. That's wild. Especially self published.

Yeah. So like I thought like when I dove into this rewrite, I really thought I'm just refreshing it, freshen up. But it just ended up being this huge project that just took over my life for a huge year.

I can only imagine. Do you, what's your writing process? Do you have a ghostwriter? Do you have help? Do you have editors?

I wish I had a ghostwriter. The first, in the very first edition. You know, I, I've been publishing, so I've been publishing online forever. I developed this thing called the product launch formula. My students have had a lot of success over the years, so. Yes, yes. So it seemed like it was time to write, write a book. And that this is back when long ago. And you know, someone said, oh, just get a ghostwriter and they can interview you and you know, it'll be great. And so I did that. I spent a lot of money, I actually spent $50,000 on a ghostwriter, which is like the absolute most you could expect. This was like 2011 or something and. And it just didn't work. It just didn't work. Because I've been publishing online so long, I think I've got a very strong, distinctive voice. And so I remember she just sent it over to me like the first four chapters and I'm like, you know, there's. This just isn't me. And so then I went through about a six month morning process where because I thought it was going to be easy to create this book and then I just buckled down and the only way I could get it done was, was get up. Like I would have writing days and the writing days went like this. Within 15 minutes of my feet hitting the floor. After I got out of bed, I had to be in front of my computer with my fingers on the keyboard. I didn't have to be writing, but my fingers had to be on the keyboard. And then I set a timer and I would set a timer for 50 minutes and I would just type for 50 minutes and then I had 10 minutes, 10 minutes to do some push ups or go grab a cup of tea and then back for 50 minutes. And if I had two of those sessions, then the day was done. I had one the day, sometimes I had three of those sessions. And that was like a superhero day. And once or twice I might have had four of those sessions. And then I didn't even know what to do with myself. I was so excited. But it's just, it was. And when I got in the groove, I was doing like five of those days a week.

That's incredible. How many words is that in one of those sessions?

Roughly, you know, what was it? I think it was, I think it was around. I used to know this number. I think it's somewhere in the 800 to a thousand words.

That's solid. That's really good production for a day. I was thrilled. If I get a thousand words, like a 2000, I was overjoyed. And if you write that much on a regular basis, you can have a book knocked out in a couple months. It's really not that bad. What sticks people up is, like you said, they don't create that space where it's like you don't have to do anything else. You can't do anything else, but you don't have to write, but you can't do anything else. You just get yourself on the keyboard. It works really well. So I have a question. So you've been in this industry a long time, right? A couple decades plus. What got you into the industry and what keeps you in the industry and keeps you excited about it?

Well, they're very different answers. What got me into it was desperation. I was a stay at home dad. I had a couple of young children. My wife was supporting a family, one income family. There wasn't much money to go around and I just, I was desperate, we were desperate to bring in some additional income. And this is actually in 1996.

Wow.

So it's been a long time.

Congratulations. That's huge.

Yeah, yeah, we're coming actually. We're just. It's like, I think it was August 29th was when I first sent out my very first email newsletter in 1996. So we're coming up in 25 years in a couple of weeks.

Congratulations, Jeff. That's huge.

Yeah, it's ridiculous. So that was, it was desperation. And you know, my goal was $10,000 in a year. And I actually hit that in 1997. I worked really, really hard, made about $10,000. But it got better and better and better and better. You know, my students, you know, first I was publishing about the stock market. I did that for about eight years. And then I realized my real love was not for the stock market, but for marketing and for business building and entrepreneurship. And so in 2005, after creating this process to launch product services, online courses, membership sites, masterminds, coaching programs, whatever, after developing this process in my own work for about eight years, then I switched and I started teaching people how to do this. And yeah, the number their results is now it's over a billion, well over a billion dollars in sales by my students.

So.

So when your students get a billion dollars in results, or probably closer to 2 billion now, some of those results are going to flow to you. I mean, you can't create that much results without doing pretty well yourself. So initially it was desperation and needing to make some money to help to support the family. But it's been a while now since it really shifted. It's been really been about decade where it's really just shifted to impact. And you know, I've got these incredibly warm, strong communities. We have people that have been with us in our community for well over a decade, many People I can tell.

From personal experience, like Stacy Murphy is a good friend of mine and she was a client as well and she raves about Launch Club, which is your mastermind. Can you talk a little bit about that and who that's appropriate for?

Yeah, so we, so I have a, you know, basically my world goes, you know, it's first a book, then, then people come in, usually they get involved. One of my free trainings, we, we do a masterclass each year which we just go over the top, just 100% free for the cost of an email address. And then that leads into Product Launch Formula which is let's like an online course and coaching program and then if people want to go deeper then we have a program called Launch Club. And Launch Club is about, we're six years into it. It's been just quite a revelation. Initially it was for people that were really looking to get going and now some of those people like Stacy that were just looking to get going six years ago are just crushing it. And we have people with million dollar, multimillion dollar business within Launch Club.

And yeah, she already sold her business, she's transitioning, she's doing some amazing stuff and it's been great to see how, you know, you've been able to transform together as a group. You know, everybody, you know, all the ships, Rising tide and all that good stuff. So, so Flight Club. I'm sorry, not Flight club. I just joined Flight Club which is where I saw John. Launch Club Mastermind, that is for people who are in the seven figure range already or want to be or like what's the minimum for people on that?

Actually you can join it. You know, really what we're looking for, people coming to the Launch Club, people that have an idea and you. So it, so it initially started out more of a newbie program and then people started having success. So now we, we actually split it up into three tracks.

Oh great.

So there's Launch scale and impact and then beyond that and there's a Mastermind level and, and frankly this is like, this is almost like covert intelligence because we never even talk about Launch Club until people get into product Launch Formula. But yeah, it's. So now what we've done is we've built out a full coaching team. I've got, I think it's 10 coaches plus a facilitator, plus they're backed up by a content team and these people are all full time and are supporting Launch Club in a huge way. So the Launch track gets their own curriculum and scale, has their Own curriculum and impact has their own curriculum and then there's pieces that overlap for everyone. And then we pull in Mastermind elements. So really it's for. If you've got a business doing $10 million or more, it's probably not for you. But if you want to get started and you've got an idea, then we have people coming in that they're just starting out. But then we also have people coming in with hundred thousand dollar businesses and even a million dollar businesses that are crushing it. And we have people that came in with just an idea. This isn't an income claim or anything like that. And it's truly exceptional. But I'm thinking of one person who came in who just had been a professional musician his entire life, a very successful, touring, successful musician, but then his wife was going to have a baby, so he's like, I got to stop touring and I want to do something else. And so he came in not even with an idea, but his skill set was being a musician and joined us probably, I don't know, it's probably four years ago now, maybe five years ago now, but his business is over a million dollars right now.

Oh, wow. That's beautiful.

Ridiculous.

And that's why I ask. I mean, I jump right into Masterminds. That's what we do, we teach people. I love masterminds. I wrote the book on it, so I love that format. I feel like, you know, courses are kind of hit or miss. A lot of people don't consume courses or they do and they don't implement. And one on one coaching is usually not a fun deal for both people.

Right.

You don't want, you want to charge more than anybody wants to pay and you got to find that balance. And then your, your whole calendar is full. With a Mastermind, you kind of get the best of all the elements, right. You can create this hybrid environment. If you do it really well, I think that's the best, best environment to learn. I think that's what's going to replace college for entrepreneurs, you know what I mean? I really do feel that. So what have been some of the things you've had to. Before we get off the Mastermind topic, you've had to change or evolve over the years to make it more effective or more fun or more lucrative or what have you.

Yeah, it's, it's an interesting topic because there is so like, I mean I draw a distinction between coaching and Masterminds. And within Launch Club was conceived as a coaching program, not as a course, but an interactive Ongoing program where you're getting ongoing coaching. And like you said, like it's not one on one. Because in my experience, one on one coaching for the most part is miserable for both sides. You know, you get in a call and you're trying to figure out how to spend an hour, you know, and so when you're in a small group, because often you don't know the questions you should be asking. And so if you're know you're in a small group, someone else is asking those questions. And so we do draw a distinction, so I do, between those two. And so Launch Club was very much a coaching program with Mastermind elements and community elements. I'm, you know, my greatest skill is building community. And it's just a really, you know, if you've talked to Stacy about it, I mean, you know, you've probably got some level of her enthusiasm for the community. So. Because Mastermind is just so, so powerful. Being around a group of peers, you know, I'm a believer you always want to have mentors and peers and mentees and having those peer relationships. And now someone like Stacy, someone or who Michael is just talking about who's built that million dollar business now they mentors to some of the other people in Launch Club. So we in every aspect of Launch Club we build in Mastermind elements. But then some of the folks have gotten it to such a level where I created a Mastermind level for them that is, it's sort of like an add on and it is just a pure Mastermind where they're with me, you know, three, three times a year, two day meetings and then like monthly Mastermind calls.

Is that a limited number of people or how does that work?

As of right now, it's limited. So my, I mean I have built, I have just another legacy Mastermind I don't even want to talk about because no one, no one can get in it because no one ever leaves it. And I've been doing it for 11 years now and over half the people that joined 11 years ago are still in it. So when I talk about community and longevity of relationship, that just doesn't really happen in this industry. People don't stay in a mastermind for 11 years and the renewal rate is like 95%. So it's just, that's why I don't even talk about it. But this new Launch Club Masterminds patterned after that legacy one and we, I initially it was about 20 people and then we grew up to about 30 and then I took it up to 50 and I've kept it at 50.

So you feel like that's the sweet spot.

It feels like it right now. Yeah. For this, at least for this format, you know, I. Yeah, yeah.

And do you only do launches now? Do you have an evergreen inside the business? Do you do ads? Like, how. What does your business look like today?

Yeah, we do. We were doing one launch a year, which was a joint venture launch. We'd invite partners and clients to promote for it. Now we do with COVID Right. When Covid hit, I was like, it's like, okay, after about two weeks of watching the news, which is not. I usually don't watch the news, but I mean, in March of like, literally, I just do not watch and consume any news whatsoever. But in March of 2020, it was hard to not watch the news. So after two weeks of watching these, I was just like, okay, this sucks. This absolutely sucks. And I got to do something. I'm sick of sitting on my hands. So I'm like, what's the best way to bring the most value to the most people in the shortest amount of time? And it was to do a launch. Because when I do a launch, I will teach. I'll do like three to four, six live trainings, not a repeat. Like different sequential trainings. And that might add up to like 10, 12, 14, 16 hours of training, all for free. And I figure I'll just do this is like the best way I can deliver the most value to the most people. And, you know, maybe some people will buy or not. But frankly, at my level of business, I really wasn't worried about making sales at that point. And this was early April 2020, and we just did it with our email list, and we didn't even have run any ads because we didn't even have time to put together an ad campaign. We might have done some ads once we got into it to drive people back to the training, but we weren't driving any cold new leads into it because it didn't feel like the time to do that in the midst of the COVID meltdown. And that went so, so well. Then we just literally did 10x what I thought we would do. Yeah. And again, I was just like, I don't really care. So I had a pretty low, so 10x. It was a very low bar I had, but it was still 10x. So then we ended up doing another one, a reprise of that in this spring. I think it was in March or April. So we're sort of doing two launches a year, one just purely internal to Our list one to with partners.

I love it.

That's sort of it.

So I'm thinking about the timing. So we had Dean and Tony's big launch. The second one KBB was in February that year and we were big for partner for that. And the timing just walloped us. Right. Because the two biggest sales days were the two worst days in the Dow. The so much uncertainty in the marketplace and you know, there was all kinds of different challenges around the timing. So I'm wondering when was the first one? Was it after that all happened or was it right before?

And it was. I think, I think it was so Tony's. They was in February, I think.

Yeah, it was like the end of February was there when it launched and.

Then they had a lengthy open cart period. So we ours, we started I think on April 1st was the first broadcast and so I think April and the way I've evolved in the way we do them is I'll do live broadcasts for the trainings for the pre launch. And I did. What I did was I compressed it because that was sort of the era of binge watch, you know, that was like. It felt like Netflix binge watching.

This is your PLF content all in one shot there. Yeah, they could binge watch. That's why I like that.

Yeah. So on Friday, Saturday, Sunday. So it's. This is all, you know, 18 months ago memory. But I think it was April 1st, 2nd, 3rd broadcast, broadcast, broadcast and then open cart and probably the fourth which would. Yeah, so it was, you know, two weeks, two and a half weeks, three weeks after the real meltdown. Closing Disney World clout closing, you know, the NBA closing the NHL and all that and just crushed and interesting. I mean one of the things. So the evolution of launches, I mean they've evolved radically over the years. My first launches in 1996 were via email because that's all you had, you know, even putting up.

That was new and cutting edge back then.

It was, it was, it was brand new and even put. And putting up a webpage was like freaking rocket science. I mean it was like coding HTML, which I didn't know how to do. So I mean when blogs came out that was like a massive innovation. Like you could publish something without spending two days trying to program the page and. And so I don't know when that was like in the late 90s when blogs came out, early 2000s or something. In any case, you can still do launches via email. You can still do them via. There's many tools to use. But personally what I'VE done. And what I coach some of my students to do, not all of them, is to do them live. And one of the benefits was that In April of 2020, your messaging had to revolve around Covid. And in fact, if you remember, back then, we weren't even talking about COVID It was coronavirus. But you had to lean into that. You had to speak to the Times. And so I was able to. Because it was all live training, I was able to speak to the Times there, like early April. And we just. It just really resonated with people. And that launch did really well. And the people who joined our coaching program because of that launch ended up crushing it. Yeah, it was just. It was hard. It was. Obviously, it was a hard year. It was hard for all of us. And my business had major changes, but, you know, it was gratifying to see the world tilt in our direction of online business and online education.

Was your team already virtual or did you have to adjust that?

Yeah, we've been virtual all. Yeah.

So we were secretly preparing for this for years. We had no idea. So that worked out.

I mean, we were thinking about it. We were using Zoom. I'm sure you were for years. And all of a sudden, like, In March of 2020, everyone, like, discover Zoom.

Yeah. And they went public and exploded, and that was insane. And now, you know, Tony's having 830,000 per people launches, and. And it's wild. So I would love to know, because we haven't met in person yet, I would love to know kind of some of the things that you care about as far as charitable giving. What do you do with your spare time? What do you like to do for fun things along those lines? Whatever you'd like to share would be awesome.

Yeah. I'm proud to say we've done very, very well with charitable giving. So we've built, I think it's seven schools in Kenya now throughout.

Congratulations.

And through Village Impact, we would just do fundraisers at our live events and raise. Anywhere from a school in Kenya is $125,000. So every event, we would either get one or two schools out of it. We've raised about. Last time I talked to Scott Harrison was about six months ago. And. And we'd raised $6 million for charity water within our community. And also, I know both Charity Water and Village Impact because of people seeing us do it. They've also done it and just went out and crushed it. And then we give a lot locally in our. You know, my wife and I have a Foundation, and we give a lot locally in our community. But I don't even, you know, that's. That no one knows about that. So I never even thought, you know, I just.

I'm looking under all the carpets right now, and I'll try all the dirt.

I keep that one under the radar, but it's been a blessing because, you know, it was $10,000 was the initial goal. And, you know, I've had. I've had the. I've had. I've done over a million dollars in sales in. In under an hour. I only did that once, but I've had many, many days where I've done over a million dollars in sales.

Yeah, those are the days when you're just refreshing. You're like, is this real?

Is this a glitch?

It's the FBI about to knock on my door.

What's going on? Well, in 08, the first time I. The first really big One, like in 05, I did a $600,000 launch. That was a big deal. But 08 was 3.7 million in 30 hours. And that one, I really was worried that, like, someone was going to come knock on the door and say, give us the money back. But. And of course, you know, you've got partners, we're paying out commissions, and I've got a great big team. I've got. We. Our team's grown up to 40 people. So, you know, obviously, I'm not keeping all of that by any stretch of the imagination. And you've got refunds, and not everyone makes all their payments, but still, if you make a million dollars in sales in a day, you do okay, right?

You can live on that. You can't live on it. It's a good start, right? That's what they like, right?

Exactly. Exactly. So, yeah, it's been. It's been amazing to be able to give and to make such a big impact in that way, and it's become one of the big focuses for.

I feel like that's what it's all about. I learned from a mentor, my name Meltzer, who some people might know. He's worked with some of the most incredible people in sports and entertainment and all these different things. He always says, have a lot of fun, help a lot of people, make a lot of money, in that order, thereabouts. I kind of switched around based on my values. It's like, I want to help as many people as I can. If you do that, all your needs will be taken care of and more. Like you said, you just started out in A new industry where nobody's going in that direction. It happened to hit really big. You hit your goals, and then you helped other people, too. You didn't stop at just you, because you meet so many people that they find their niche and then they stop there. And the beauty of what you're doing is you're taking a lot of other people along on the ride. And however people feel about that, I think that's what life is all about. Personally, that's what lights you up the most.

You know, Brad, I think money is such a funny thing, and it can be so incremental, especially like if you're a job and you're getting 4% more this year than the year before, or even in business can be incremental, and then you can incrementally grow your standard of living. And my experience of business has been in my business is like, you're sort of at a level, and then something will change. Usually it's you come up with a new offer or new marketing, and all of a sudden you explode to it. You know, for me, it was like that 10,000 and then 70,000 and then 100,000 and then 200. And so from 100 to 200, it's like, massive. And then it was like 600,000. Then it was a million, and then it was 4 million. I jumped literally from 1 to 4. And because of those jumps, it's almost like hitting the lottery in a way. Like when we did 3.7 million in 30 hours. The business before that was running at about a million a year. And all of a sudden, in a day and a half, it's almost $4 million. And. And when that happened to me, I went. I was like, oh, my God. What? I have literally hit every goal I thought of. I had no more goals. And so I went through a real process. Or first of all, it was like feeling lost, like, what next? And I know some people are watching this or listening, and they're in the same place where you have a big event, a big revenue event like that, or maybe you sell your company and. And it can be a lonely and disorienting and a lost feeling of, like, I've hit all my goals. I've got a long time to live. What happens now? And that hit me when we did that, you know, launch it at almost $4 million. That was the one where we did 53 minutes. A million dollars. And so I went through a big searching process. And this wasn't like a couple days or a couple weeks. I mean, I went to a Tony Robbins event. The first. First one I ever went to. I went to Lifebook. I went on meditation retreat. I went on yoga retreat. I did a ton of journaling, and it took me a while, and then I'm like, you know what my. My goal is? It sounds grandiose, and it's sort of an inner joke for me, but the shorthand is my. I'm all about the future of all humanity, because I think entrepreneurs are the ones that are moving the ball forward, and especially entrepreneurs in, like, the wisdom space, the information space, the training space, where, you know, like you said, this is the future of education. And so it's like, yeah, that's my. It just help as many people get their ideas and get their wisdom and knowledge and training out into the world as possible.

Yeah, that's an interesting question, because you talk about, like, hitting the pinnacle of success, or at least what your definition of success was monetarily. And now maybe you don't have the fulfillment or you've been fulfilled and you don't know what's next. So what would that process look like for you? Did you reach out to mentors? Did you find groups you could join? Like, how did you work through that?

Yeah, I mean, it was going and getting training. You know, I was going to Tony's event, and that was. That was his UPW event is like his intro event.

Success without fulfillment is the ultimate failure. That's what he says.

Yeah, no, it's. It's. That was powerful. Lifebook is a really strong program. That's a really powerful program. I did, you know, yoga retreats, meditation retreats. I did a lot of journaling, a lot of meditation. Spent a lot of time out in the wilderness. And, you know, at the end of it, it was just, like, really simple. I mean, all this, it took me months. It took me months. And I did. I talked to a lot of friends, talked to my masterminds and, like, the ones where I was a participant in. And at the end of the day, it's like, well, I'm just. I'm already on the path. Because my path was helping people launch their businesses and programs and services and courses. I'm on the path, and. But now I'm just doing it for impact. I'm not doing it for money. And, you know, the money still comes in. I mean, business is bigger than it's ever been, and it's three times bigger. Yeah. Three times bigger than it was back then, but it's really driven by the impact.

Wonderful. Okay, so if I was Just starting out. Let's say I have, you know, not the very, very beginning. Like, I don't have imposter syndrome. Maybe I've got my offer figured out. I'm clear on my niche. What are some of the next steps as far as planning for a big launch? Like, what would you recommend now, given what you've gone through the last few decades here?

Yeah, well, first of all, I don't think people tend to outgrow the imposter syndrome.

I think that just new level, new devil, right?

Exactly. I think people hold on to that one for a good long time. I know I did. I had imposter syndrome. Not so much about business and marketing, but more about personal development and sharing that. Because, you know, at the end of the day, if you're really playing big, then, then and you're really helping people no matter what you're teaching them. It could be guitar, it could be meditation, it could be how to get, you know, find the love of your life. It could be tennis. At the end of the day, if you can't just be teaching the mechanics, you have to be teaching inner game. You have to be taking care of their headspace. And so I did have some imposter syndrome about that. And I don't even know if it's imposter syndrome, but this just this feeling of like, who the hell am I to be telling people, you know, how to live their life? So I struggled with that one for a while. And then I was just like, after a while, I'm like, you know what? I've done the work, you know, I've, I've had the business success, but I also, I've had a marriage that's like 33 years. You know, congratulations, you know. Thank you. I've got two kids that, you know, they're now adult children that love to be with my wife. And I, you know, I'm strong, I'm healthy, I'm an athlete. I've got decades long friendships. I sort of got my shit together in most areas of life. And I was like, okay. And that didn't happen by accident. You know, I've been working on it. And so I was like, okay. I feel like I got, I can tell people a little bit about the path. So in any case, to come back to your question about the launches, the more so, first of all, they have evolved quite a bit in terms of the tools and the tactics. We've gone from email to, you know, nice video for most people are doing video or live. And so the tools have changed. The underlying core is the same as it was 15 years ago when I started teaching it. It all comes down to stories and sequences and triggers. Triggers being the mental triggers that create influence in our brains. Things like social proof and authority and scarcity and community and using those within your launch, telling stories within your launch, but stories that are really about the stories of your prospects future and the future transformation, whatever it is, we're all transforming people's lives. If we're teaching people how to do masterminds, if we're teaching people how to build speakers, teaching people how to quit smoking, we're all offering transformation, teaching people how to hit a golf ball. Further, we're transforming their lives. So really the story is about that opportunity for the transformation of their life and who they will become when they have that transformation. And then a story of them enrolling in that future change and then hopefully enrolling in your product or service or course or membership.

And have you always been a naturally good storyteller or did you have to learn and what resources would you recommend.

For learning Storyteller I think I learned. I think I've gotten better and better over the years. I think so you earlier you asked about some of the things I'm interested in. One of the, I spend a lot of time outdoors. Avid passionate mountain biker and skier. And one of my favorite things is being on wilderness river trips, either rafting or kayaking. I've got all the gear, I do it all by myself. And I think I've mostly learned storytelling, sitting around the campfire trips, listening to people tell river stories. And you know, there are there, there's a lot of great books on it. One of my favorite is by Steven Pressfield. A lot of people know the war of art by Steven Pressfield. He has one that's a simple short book. I should have it right here. Supposed to live right here. I can't find it right now. Where is it? But it's got so many notes in it. It's underlined and dog eared. It's called no one wants to read your shit. No one wants to read your shit. And it's, it is, it's like, like that thick and it's, it's a great book. And that's one of my favorites. You know, I think that real art of storytelling and I think it's not to pat myself on the back too much, but it, it's something I think I'm good at is having your stories be about your, your listener. Even if the story's about you building in bridges so that it's about them. So they can see yourself in their. In your story.

Right. So they can go through your hero's journey as you speak it, as you sell it. Yeah, that's great. I read a book recently, Chris Bogler, he's a Hollywood screenwriter called the Writer's Journey. And it takes all the Joseph Campbell and it puts it in a really wonderful format. And if anybody's listening and they're interested in storytelling, especially with regard to writing launches, it's dense, but it's excellent. Really, really good.

I got that one sitting here too, but I don't know, I can't find that one either. Yeah, that one's. Yep, it's a great one. You know, Don Miller, you know, and what Don focuses on is, you know, really you're not meant, like in your brand at least you're not meant to be the hero, you're meant to be the guide. You know, it's the difference between being. Being Obi Wan Kenobi and being Luke. You know, you're not Luke in terms of your communication. Your client is Luke Skywalker. You're Obi Wan Kenobi. That's guiding him. And so it's really easy to tell a story and become really boring if you make it, if it's just about you. But the more you can make it about the prospect, about the listener, that's how you get to get to a good story.

So stories, sequences, triggers.

Yeah, those are. So sequence is the pre launch sequence. And this is something that, you know, we've really dialed in. And especially in terms of the teaching, you know, it's opportunity. The first piece of prelaunch content is here. There is an opportunity for your life to change. You can quit smoking. I know you've tried a dozen other ways, but here's a way that people are having success. And so it's the opportunity for change. The second piece of pre launch is generally about the transformation. This is how your life will transform when you go through this change. The third one is about ownership and it's about having them take the ownership, taking ownership of that change. And then the fourth one is enrollment. And that's like, okay, I've taken ownership. Now I am completely enrolled. I am moving forward. And if you go through that sequence and typically, you know, I've been doing it four straight days, which is, I would not recommend that, frankly, for most people. If you're starting out, you know, take a week to do this, take five to seven days to deliver that content. One of the Big Evolutions. BRAD is in the open cart. So you go through this pre launch phase where you go an opportunity transformation, ownership, getting people completely stoked they can't even buy from you yet. And that leads into the open cart which is like, okay, this is actually now available. Here's an order button. You can buy from me.

That's the enrollment phase. Or is it one of the two?

Yeah, exactly, that's the. And so in the past it used to be pre launch and then okay, we're open, you send an email and then you have it open for about five days and you send a bunch of emails and then you close down.

I love that it's an acronym for oto. Right. Because we geek out about marketing, which is a one time offer. But it's, you know.

Yeah. I mean I always think of the OTO sort of as being, you know, more that something you put on a webpage, especially for an upsell or something.

Totally. I was just thinking like the three acronyms.

Right.

The opportunity transformation, owners, ownership, oto. I don't know if you thought of that or not, but never.

This is literally the first.

I was a med student before I got into Internet marketing so I always think of acronyms so I can remember stuff.

It's no Brad. Literally this is the first time I.

Ever thought of that.

It was.

There you go. Feel feel free to take that moment.

Yeah. Oto. Oto. And then an E for enrollment. So open cart has become the sort of the star of the show almost. And it's now I typically will do a five day open cart and the first day is not too much happening. That's special. But the second day typically come back with some content. Third day might be case studies or a celebrity live stream. There's usually some type of an FAQ in there where the FAQ can be via email or it could be on a webpage. But these days the more and more it's via a live broadcast. And then we'll usually have a closing ceremonies on it because it's like when I do it, it's like a big show. It's like here we got 14 hours of time over a week. We're going to change your life in this week whether you join me or not. And so we literally it becomes like an emotional experience. So you got to have a wrapping closing ceremony. So it used to be the pre launch was like all the excitement but now almost like the, the open cart. That enrollment phase has become as much the star of the show as the pre launch. But those are the sequences is the pre launch sequence and the open cart sequence. And there's also a pre pre sequence and a post launch sequence. So there's really four sequences.

I see this becoming bigger and bigger. I don't think we're even close to tapping out what's possible. You think about television, you think about the super bowl, you think about how big this can get and being able to stream it to millions of people across the world. I could just picture you doing a launch network where you have different channels or even something like that where people could be doing hundreds of millions of dollars in business in a single launch or billions eventually, because the world's getting to that place where there's really no guardrails, there's no gatekeepers, there's no rules except for limits of your imagination. And we're starting to get to a place where we can reach more and more people. More and more people are coming online, more and more people have access. More and more people are talking. I really think we haven't even seen anything yet. I think it's going to keep going.

I agree. You know, when I came out with product launch formula in 2005, you know, that was October of 05 and I think January 06, someone came out with a white paper that talked about the death of launches. And I was like, I don't think we're done quite yet.

In 2000, not even close.

You know, the analogy I like to use is so when I was a kid, before my time, but not that much before my time, I read about. So Joe Namath was the most famous quarterback in the NFL of his day. And I remember reading that he signed a contract to make $100,000 a year. And when he did that, there was like an uproar because people thought it was ridiculous that an athlete make $100,000 in a year.

Now they make it in a day.

Then when I went to college, I went to Michigan State and I went there just after Magic Johnson left Michigan State and he signed a contract with the lakers to make $20 million over a course of 20 years. He signed a 20 year contract for $20 million. And it was like the biggest people's brains melted. So that was a span of about 15 years when you went from 100,000 to 20 million. I don't even know what athletes are making now, but I do know there's like baseball players you've never heard of that are in the tens of millions per year. And I think it's the same way. My first launch, my first launches, even the $4 million launch which seemed. I'll never equal that again. Well, plenty of people have hit that number and much bigger. The launch that Tony and Dean did, their first launch. Tens of millions.

I think they did 35 on that. Yeah, it was pretty wild. I actually have massive. So this is the biggest sports contract before we lose the thread on that. I had to look it up because I was really curious. Lionel Messi, Barcelona. Barcelona, $673 million contract.

Yeah, I think, I think that might have been like a two year or something. Yeah, it's like absurd. I just read about that one. Yeah, no, he. And he just got traded too like.

Average of $4 million a game.

It's just, it's. Yeah, so I mean I don't kick.

A ball that well, but I can't.

Even, I mean that, I mean that's like where we're, that's where we're at, you know, that, that it's just. Yeah. I mean and Covid had just accelerated everything. It was a massive accelerant for online business.

Okay, here's a great question for you. What do you think are the holes still like in software or opportunities that you're like if I knew how, if I had the know how or the desire and I built that, that would be a really great idea. What have you seen that you really still think is needed?

I was, you know, I've got the resources where if I saw a hole like in software I could, I could build it, you know? You know I could but I don't, I don't see the holes. I see them after other people fill them. Frankly, it's just not one of my skills to just to look and see the big holes, I think. And if you look at what I've done, it's sort of evident my skill is being incremental and just sticking to mastery. And you know, like I was just asked this question. Where are we going to be in two years? What's going to be happening in two years? Well, I bet you email lists are still going to be super, super powerful. I think online courses and membership sites are going to be bigger than they've ever been. I think social is going to be bigger than it's ever been. It's going to be a fantastic way to build your email list. I think the advertising world, online advertising is going to face more and more challenges, but still will be there and still be like that's something we didn't have in the early days. There's no way to advertise I think this business, this online business, especially online education, training, coaching, information, you know, masterminds, it's, we're just starting. We're, we're, we're just starting. It's ridiculous to say this, but we're just starting. I mean, there's so many people. I don't know what the numbers are, but can you, I mean, can you even imagine like the number of people that took their first online course in the last 18 months?

Yeah, it's a lot. My mom, my mom got on Zoom and started taking courses at the library for the first time in the last 12 months because she had to, you know, she couldn't do anything else. I was like, that's great, right?

And then my wife, recently, her sister asked her to be an officiant in her wedding. And so my wife, being the person who she is, she's like, okay, I'll do it. I love to do it. I'm going to, and I'm going to do it. Well, so she went and took an online course on how to be an officiant for a wedding and she did an amazing job. It was the best wedding I've ever been to because she took this really good course on how to be an efficient. And the idea of taking an online course for that, it's, that's where we're going.

That's anything you want to learn. It makes so much sense. And when you think about university of billions of dollars in endowments and the money's just sitting there, not helping anybody. They're charging 70, 80, $100,000 a year. You're coming out with 2, 3, 4, $5,000 and $500,000 in debt for jobs that aren't there, that are going to be replaced. Even top level jobs, you know, lawyers, doctors, there's nothing, nobody's safe, right? There's no safe job anymore. You have to be able to pivot, you have to be able to learn. You have to continue to look at. Learning is not just, okay, I'm going to cram it into the first part of my life and hope for the best. Now it's just the thing that we have to do. So on that track, like, how do you stay sharp? How do you keep learning? What are your tactics and tools and how do you force yourself to keep moving in that direction to master?

I think, yeah, what keeps me sharp is my students. So that's when I started my first Mastermind and when I started Launch Club, it was like, okay, I have these people that have gone through my course but they need to be served at a higher level. That was one reason, but the super selfish reason was I need that to be like my content factory and my idea factory and my training factory. So really, it, it, I. It's so much my higher level groups are the people that, that either bring me learnings and lessons and trainings, or they force me to make greater and finer distinctions.

Yeah, it's like a little experiment. You got a little lab, you know, that you get to test all these different ideas out on.

Yep.

Yeah, that's cool. All right, so I don't want to keep you too much longer. We're coming up on the hour. What do you recommend? Well, definitely tell us about your book where everybody can find it, Juan. And what would be your parting words for the folks over at Make More Marbles? All the entrepreneurs out there listening that have been looking up to you and reading your books. And what would you recommend?

Well, so first of all, the book is called Launch. It's available wherever books are sold. I'm sure Amazon's got it. They've got a Kindle version. They have the audible version I actually read for in the first. Yeah.

Have you ever thing we could talk about? Yeah, I've done that twice, too.

Oh, my goodness. Oh, my goodness.

I have a new level of respect for people who do voice acting.

Oh. So, Brad, just a quick, quick anecdote. I remember the first version of the book. I. They had someone else read for it, and I was a little irritated because I wanted to read for it, but my publisher just went and got someone else to read for it. And then I remember seeing this like, thing, like agreement come through and the person who read for it got a royalty and I was like, a little torqued off. I'm like, it's my book. I spent years writing this thing. Why is this other person getting a royalty for reading my book? And then I read for this version and I'm like, oh, I get it. That dude.

I'm going to send that guy a nice Christmas card.

Dude earned every penny he got. It's. It's quite the process to read a book. But I'm happy to say my daughter right now is listening to the audible version and she's like, I'm not like an audiobook person. I like podcasts a lot, but not an audiobook person. But she is, she's voracious with it and she said I did a really good job with. So I'm happy about that. So any case, it's available wherever you want if you go to the launchbook.com thelaunchbook.com then we've got some extra bonuses for you and basically just go there. You'll still buy it at Amazon or Barnes and Noble or wherever, but then you just come back and you put in your receipt and we can validate that and then you get a whole bunch of extra bonuses. So if you go to the launchbook.com and the book walks you through the entire, my entire launch process, I really didn't hold anything back. You know, there's certainly levels you can go deeper if you end up joining my email list and following along with one of my masterclasses, you know, but this, the book gives the whole. In fact, at the very beginning of the book, I tell a story of Tiffany Alicia, who she, I only met her through her Amazon review for the first edition. And she, she said, I used to be a preschool teacher and now I've got a, you know, I've got an eight figure business.

Wow. Good for her.

Yeah. For Those at home, 8 figure means $10 million in sales per year. It's just ridiculous. I saw that review, so I had to track her down. Got on the phone, did an interview with her, but she did that just from her $12 ebook or whatever. So, yeah, I encourage you to go to thelaunchbook.com get your copy. And parting words of wisdom. Just two things is like, it's been 25 years now and I've got this team of 40. I, I've sold over a hundred million dollars worth of my products. My students have done a billion dollars, well over a billion dollars in sales of their products. And it got there step by step, one step at a time. Baby steps, baby steps. You don't need to know the tenth step. You don't need to know the hundredth step or the thousandth step. You need to know the next step and take that step. And if you focus on the 10th or the 20th or the 30th step, you can just get caught in that analysis paralysis. So baby steps, baby steps, baby steps. And then the other one is that no matter what you want to learn, whatever you want to master, whatever you want to get good at, whatever you want to increase your skills at, someone else has spent the better part of their life studying that thing. And many of those people are willing to share their wisdom with you, whether it's through an online course or a podcast or a seminar or a workshop or a book. And so to me, that's the ultimate shortcut to success, is find a person who has done those 10,000 hours or those 20,000 or 30,000 hours and learn from them 100%.

Great advice. And I love finding people that aren't even teaching it yet and then you can make the best deal in the world because they're like, oh my God, I'm going to get paid to teach this. They're so excited about it. Jeff, thank you so much for, for all that you do for being an inspiration to so many. The book is@thelaunchbook.com go check it out. Get the extra bonuses. So grateful that you're putting out a second version. I'm gonna check out the audible book. I'm about to have it on a plane actually, so I'll probably just grab it on the way to the airport. And thank you so much for being on the Make More Marble show. Bye everybody. Have a beautiful rest of your day. I'll talk to you soon.

Thanks.