Bringing Dark Influence Secrets From The CIA, NSA, and FBI Into The Light With Shari Alexander

Welcome to Make More Marbles. My name is Brad Hart and we're here to interview the game changers, the future makers, the co collaborators and creators who are here to collaborate with one another towards a better future for all of us. Enjoy the show. We've got a great guest coming up for you right now. Okay. Welcome to Make More Marbles podcast. My name is Brad Hart. I am so, so excited to have Cherie Alexander on the podcast today. Thank you so much, Sheree, for blessing, blessing us with your presence today. Amazing lady friends a long time and you're actually one of my coaches. You're one of my people that teaches me things. Sometimes I listen to them.

And when.

I find, I find when I use them, they actually work. Is an author, she's a speaker, she's a blogger, she runs Persuasive Profits, which is a really great influence course. She also has gone really deep down the rabbit hole talking to CIA, FBI, you know, just really high level influencers. When lives are on the line, these are the people that make it happen and influence at the highest levels. And she's brought those dark arts into the light, as she always loves to say. And I'd love for Cherie to tell you guys a little bit about herself and what she hopes to accomplish with that, but why don't we just dive right in and just get started. Cherie, thank you so much and welcome to the show.

Oh, thank you for having me here. I'm happy to chat about influence always.

Day, every day, live on Facebook. All day, every day, live on Facebook.

Well, no, about live on Facebook part, but yes.

So it's the mark of an incredible influencer, in my opinion, when other influencers look to you for guidance and leadership. Like, I just had Eli on the show yesterday, and Eli is also a student of yours as well as myself and several other people I refer to. And what I found most interesting is like, wow, I heard Cherie speak. Like, this is the note I got from Eli. I heard Sheree speak and she's got stuff that I never heard of that's just incredible. And I want to take her course you down. I'm like, absolutely, I'll do the course. So you know, that's the highest compliment you can get. It's like there's other high level people doing great things in the world and they look to you for leadership and coaching. That means you got this thing dialed in. So what do you think was the original thing that attracted you to really go deep on this and master it?

Influence in particular, it's not going to sound as well thought out as maybe I should, but whatever, I'm telling you the real story. So a few years back, I was in a bit of a transition stage. I had owned a business with a former business partner at the time, and we knew that we were going our separate ways in the middle of those discussions. And I was having a bit of an internal freak out because I was like, well, what the heck am I gonna do? I don't want to take this business and run it by myself. And so I was at a not very good event and was not getting value out of it. So I did something that's very unlike myself and I sat in the back for day two, which usually I'm that super annoying person up in the front row. And so I sat in the back. I was just getting work done. I was letting my mind wander. And I swear it was just this voice outside of myself. I refused to label it. It was just this is how I experienced it. And it said, wouldn't it be cool if you learned how to influence people like a CIA agent? And I was like, yeah, voice, that would be super cool. How would I do that? And then the idea just went away. And I fully believe that the idea came from the fact that I had watched the movie Spy Game with Brad Pitt and Robert Redford like three nights before. And there's this scene where if you've ever seen the movie and if you haven't, go put that as your homework. But there's this scene where Robert Redford, there's montage is training Brad Pitt of like, how to be more aware and like, okay, get into that old lady's apartment and I want to see you out on her balcony in a little bit in like seven minutes. And a lot of that was not turns out, not too different than what a lot of people do go through in the recruitment phase and training phase. And I was just in awe of that. I was like, wow, that takes so much confidence. That takes strategy, that takes thinking quick on your feet. That takes being able to connect with somebody. If you could just wrap that in a package, what would that be? And that's what set me out on this super weird but amazing journey. And ultimately, I think it all boils down to I love the world of words. I think words are the things that change minds, change hearts, change actions, opinions. And obviously words can change communities and countries. And it's the way I think that we should change without violence and other horrible things. So ultimately, that's what I love about this World of Influence because it's about mastering words, which we take for granted a bit too much.

Agreed. And I love how you said and you gave credit to. One of the most powerful storytelling tools in my particular experience is the montage. We need more montages. I'm just gonna say that unequivocally. They even wrote a song about it in Team America, which. Which, yeah, I mean, like, montages are incredible. So I'm glad that Robert Redford and everybody could. Or the director really enroll you. Yeah. Could really enroll you into the vision of being a high level influencer through a montage that's just a perfect story.

Probably like a 90 second deal, but it made an impact on me for whatever reason.

There you go. I like it. Make more marbles montages coming at you. So, all right, so you're new to the influence game, right. And I say you as this. You know, this will be this third person that we're discussing, and you want to become more influential. What do you think the first step down that track is? Because you always talk about, you know, observe, connect. Was it connect Observe influence, or Observe Connect influence? And then finally, if you really want. So what I'm working with a lot of my clients on right now is how to dial in their message. So it's like really hardcore. And you did the vibes. I want you to definitely hit on that. Like, what are some of the things that you can kind of like look as low hanging fruit? Like, you don't have to be me yet. You know, don't compare my chapter 34 to your chapter 4. But what are like two or three low hanging fruit things that people can really get after right now in their business?

I think a general question is if you just want to be. Well, first of all, if you want to be more influential, the wrong place that most people start is they ask themselves, oh, need be influential in whatever capacity that looks like. If it's I need to make a sale or I need to get a raise, or I need to convince somebody to, you know, convince my husband, take out the trash more often or whatever that is just in those conversations where you want something to happen, you think, oh, I need to be influential, so what should I say? And that's the first place that everybody goes to when they have to write an article, what should I say? When they have to deliver a speech, what should I say? When they have to do a webinar, what should I say? It's the most debilitating question to start from a place of influence, because then when you're asking, what should I say? That means that you're going inward, which means that you are cutting out the most critical part of an influential equation, which is the person you want to influence. There is always, at minimum, two people in this equation. And when you ask yourself, what should I say? You're. You're cutting them out and only going towards yourself. And so then your message turns out to be what you think you would enjoy, what's important to you, or you're just guessing and hoping and crossing your fingers that, like, oh, maybe this will work on them. I sure hope so. I hope, I hope. Well, you don't have to start from a place of hope. You can start with just simply a better question, which is, what do I need to know? So now, instead of going inward, you're actually going outward, and you're, like, getting that antenna up, and you're paying more attention to your surroundings, paying attention to the other person and finding out, what do I need to know about this person? What's important to them? What drives them? What do they feel repelled against? What are they moving away from? And there's a whole bunch of different aspects to that, but I just simply, like, before I hop on a sales call, just like everybody else, I'll have those moments of, like, oh, God, I hope I'm amazing. I hope my genius shows. I hope, you know, like, I get that, and it's fine if that happens, but don't let it happen for more than five seconds. Because if you think that you're there to, like, present your best self, that's not influential. The best thing that you can do is to get them to present them their best selves. And so what do I need to know? What's interesting to them? And then you connect the dots, and then you're able to find influence. So that's easily. Just start switching your brain away from what do I need to say? To what do I need to know?

I love that. And you make it so simple. Every single sales call, they did studies on this where somebody doesn't close the sale. It's because they're talking more than 10 to 20% of the time.

Yeah. Oh, and easily on my calls, the other person is talking 75% of the time, at least.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Because all you're there to do is create space for people so they feel seen and heard so you can diagnose the real problem, and then finally, so you support and find a solution.

Right. And I feel like in our world, when we're selling a Service. When we're selling coaching of some sort, I think we have a little bit more of a luxury just because it's easier to get somebody to talk about their business themselves, their lives, their worries, because that's the space that we've already created in this world of coaching. But with my clients who sell insurance, it feels at first to them a little bit more tricky. But once they just simply learn some of the strategies and the models, it's the exact same process. So I don't care if you're selling something. Forgive me for saying so, but something as boring as insurance or life insurance is fascinating.

Let me give you books to read.

Well, I totally, I'm sure it is to you and your personality type. That's fantastic. You're smarter than me in that area for a lot of reasons. But it doesn't matter if you're selling that or if you're selling product of some sort or I mean, obviously services based leads to more of these types of conversations. But even if you're selling a product through online portals like an email funnel or some advertising, it's still the same conversation which you just have to create it ahead of time. That's the only difference.

I like that. And I think most people just starting out, they're so focused on what can I create or what product or what service, and they're so. They're missing this whole entire blue ocean of opportunity just to have a real conversation with them, with their client or prospect or mark or whatever you want to call that person. And these are all just words to stand in for the person I'm trying to serve. And they're missing this huge opportunity to actually serve them by getting to the heart of the problem. And when you really get good at this, it's not even about you and your products and services, like you have all that that you can offer, but it's more about getting the answer. So you can actually refer people to other people. You can say, oh, well, you know what, this isn't exactly what I do, but I know somebody's really great who could help you. Check out this product, check out this blog, etc. Etc. When you get really great at this, people really appreciate it because it's like you have no dog in this fight. They know you're not just trying to game them or make a sale at all costs. And that builds the relationships and the referrals that come back over and over and over and over again. Because people will forget what you say, they'll forget what you do, but they'll never forget how you made them feel.

Mm. Right. And I will say, like, you just touched on something that I'm working on. An article about this very topic is it's very easy to get super enamored by the marketing world of, like, oh, just put up a blog post and you get clients. Or put up a Facebook post and you'll get clients. It's kind of the whole south park elves underpants business plan, if anybody remembers that, like, that's basically being sold out. There is first step, steal underpants, second step, third step, profit. And that's what we keep seeing out there. And I think there's. I get where it's coming from. It sells. Okay, fine, I get it. But time and time again, especially with my entrepreneurial clients, what I'm noticing is that they keep wanting to jump into marketing before they ever actually attempt selling. And what I mean by that is if you're jumping into the marketing world and you're wanting to have a conversation and creating email funnels and. And get into the conversation that they're already having in their head and creating posts and trying to find the right words and everything, but you haven't actually done whatever you want to call it, the grunt work or the real work or whatever it is of selling and actually having conversations, Then you. You are not in their minds. You don't know those weird turns of phrase that they use every day because you're not. You haven't had that conversation with people. People are wanting to be hiding behind their screen so much because it feels safer and it seems cooler and, yeah, it's very leverageable. But I truly believe that everybody in their entrepreneurial journey needs to have that time when they are selling. And I mean, getting on the phone, having Facebook conversations, and then hopping on a video chat like this to just talk to people because they are missing out on, I would say, the biggest profit areas of their business because they just don't know what key will actually unlock the door to that fulfilling relationship.

Yeah. And I tell every one of my clients as well, it's like, you already know your first 10 clients. You already have relationships with those people. So making more leads happen is just a distraction from actually getting the work done, which is enrolling people into your vision. And, yeah, you're not going to get it right the first time. When I first raised money for my hedge fund, I made a list of 200 people, and only 17 said yes. But guess what? Every time I had a conversation, I learned a little bit more. I understood how to like risk reverse. I understood how to, like, naturally kind of work my way towards, okay, now these 17 people are willing to go forward with me. I had to put my own money on the line. I had to, you know, give them better rates on fees for the first year. I had, you know, all these different things that I would have never guessed had I not been having conversations with people. I think Ryan Levesque is a great resource for this. He has this book called Ask, and that's really highly leveraged, you know, funnels and all that stuff. You don't need that. But the principle is ask people what they want and need and work towards, you know, a beta test solution that's kind of like, hey, 10 of us are going to figure this out as we go. It's this price. It's going to go up in the future. But right now you can work with me and we'll work this piece out and then we'll have a program which we could sell to more people later. And now you get a chance to work with me.

Yeah, but I would also say that from those conversations, because I get the whole thing and I've done it. I've done it plenty of times. But. And this is a nuanced thing. So, you know, this isn't going to be like a blanket statement. And you know me, Brad, I very rarely make blanket statements. I'm always like, but if this, then that kind of scenario. I do think that a lot of people lean on that whole beta test and let me discount my prices thing more so not out of, let me test this thing, make sure it works, but more so out of, I don't feel confident about myself. I don't feel confident about my services. I don't feel confident about whatever that is. And so then they deeply discount their stuff. And I'm like, if you had real conversations with people, then you would know what they're looking for. You would know how to deliver it. In fact, just today, give you a perfect example, had a sales call with somebody who I certainly do hope will be joining my mastermind group very soon. I don't like to jinx anything, so I'm just gonna leave it at that. And at the end of our conversation, after I quoted him the investment, he said, is there anything you could do about the price? And my response was, Nope, I feel 100% confident with the value I'm going to be bringing. I price my products and my projects at the rate that I think that is most appropriate. So it is what it is. And I wouldn't be able to do that unless I knew that I am delivering every single thing that I know people are needing. Because I've had all these amazing conversations with.

Absolutely. And you made, you, you made a fun distinction earlier. I just want to insert a corny joke right now. You're like, oh, I don't make blanket statements. Yes, you make what? Blanket statements on all my dreams and hopes and desires? No, I'm just kidding. And that's just my strategy. Right. That's just how I roll out masterminds. But I'm still charging people multiple thousands of dollars as opposed to tens of thousands. So they're still invested, they're still valued. Right. But they get to kind of get in on the ground floor when I haven't built anything yet. And that just serves me and my strengths. Right. But I'm not like, go in a room and build something kind of guy. I tried that. Didn't work for me. So there's multiple ways to approach this. But yeah, I agree with the sense of like, you know, owning your value, knowing exactly what it is because you've done the research, you've done the homework, and you really get it right.

And I think for individuals like you and I, who, I mean, we've been doing this for a number of years and we've, you know, we've been around the block, but I think for those people who are starting out, I mean, for anybody, quite frankly, to just simply do that, that check in of, am I doing this as a beta test or am I lowering this price for right reasons because of strategy and because of, you know, I honest, this truly is a prototype and I need to make it go through its run first. Okay, cool. Those are the right reasons. But just do that check to make sure you're not doing it for the wrong reasons. Of. I'm just scared. Then. Then you need to work on that scared part versus just lowering your prices because that's really not going to serve anybody. And you and I have had this conversation of the lower the prices go, then the less commitment the client has, which means the less results they get, which means the less happy you are, which means you feel a bit jaded because they didn't put in the work and you're putting in all this. It's just like, it's not a happy cycle to get into.

Yeah. Silly human stuff. We got to all work on this. But, you know, it works, right? Ultimately, like the, you know, I always tell the story of. Do you know Peter Scott pretty well? You ever met him? Yeah. So Peter is a fearless life coach. He's got a great business now, but when he first started out, when he transitioned from finance, we have a similar story. You know, he had this mentor slash friend named Shawn Stevenson. If nobody knows Sean, go check it out. He's one of the most prolific speakers, I think, in the world today. And I always tell people the story about how, you know, for two years, Peter's like, oh, I want to start a business. Sean's giving him all this great world class advice, and he makes $20,000 for a keynote. Like, he makes really good money or more. And, you know, Peter's just not following it. Not following, not following it. Not really getting any results because he wasn't committed. Then in two years, Peter's butts against the wall. He goes and hires this incredible coach for 20,000 bucks or whatever it was. Some. Some really, you know, significant amount of money, had to borrow. Some of it now is like, you know, completely invested and gets the same exact advice that Sean had been giving him all along. But now he actually follows it because he's committed. And that's just to serve the point of like, guys, when you invest in yourself, the life starts to line up to support you. Right. You have enough leverage on yourself not to fail. Well, you.

You line up to support yourself. Finally. That's what it boils down to.

Absolutely.

To give up on yourself.

Yeah. But when you're committed to something and you're willing to burn the boats and run through brick walls and everything shifts and it doesn't come about knowledge. It's never about more knowledge paralysis. Analysis is a real thing. It's about getting started and learning as you go. And taking your lumps and not being afraid to take your lumps.

Oh, yeah. I mean, you know. Yeah. Entrepreneurship is crazy, bumpy, weird, jackety road. And it's a tough road, but it's the road I choose to be on. And if you choose to be on, just, you gotta be like you just said, gotta be willing to take your lumps, man. Gotta take some hit.

Yeah. And you talk about, I think we should transition. This is a great segue into tools, right? Everybody wants this new whiz bang tool or app or Facebook or this one or that one. Like, what's the right thing to do? And what do you think they should really master first?

Are you talking about principles? Is that the transition?

Yeah, I guess that. The principal transition. Like, I've heard you talk about this before, and you're really right. And until you get your message dialed in and you know, it works. Scale doesn't matter. It just doesn't.

Well, right. So the thing is, again, in this marketplace, it's super easy to see the new shiny, sexy tool of, oh, my gosh, if I just have this funnel building thing, I just had this webinar creating thing. If I just had this, you know, CRM or whatever it is, then all my problems are solved because all the marketing is telling me it's gonna solve all my problems. And you have to be very. You have to have that filter of, is this a tool or is this a solution? And oftentimes for people, depending on where they are in their entrepreneurial journey, it's a tool. And if you don't know how to properly use the tool, then the tool will not work because you don't know how to work it. And when it comes to marketing tools, it boils down to your message. If you don't have the right message, the tool will only be able to serve how good your message is. And so I've seen plenty of people buy great software, for example, like click funnels. I've had tons of people say, like, yeah, I got click funnels. And it had, it didn't do anything for me. Well, it's not clickfunnels fault, it's the message. It's because you spent money on the tool and you never invested in how do I develop the right message. And of course, in my world, that boils down to getting into the psychology of your prospects, all the persuasive techniques and strategies, and all the principles that teach you why certain techniques work. You can, you may be able to know a technique, but if you don't understand the principle, then you're probably using that technique in a very empty way because you don't know the right time to use it, or you don't know the right situation to use it. And that I learned from a former military intelligence officer who explained to me something super simple of like, so if you're learning martial arts, principle of trying to hurt somebody is that a wrist only bends this way. It hurts if you bend it that way. But you don't think of that unless you realize the principle of how the body is designed to work. And then your job is to push it in the opposite direction, which causes pain. Now that you understand the principle, let's talk about the techniques, this maneuver, that maneuver, and all that. So the exact same thing applies to our business when it comes to the message. The message. You have to learn all the principles around the message, or else no matter what technique you use later, it's not going to work.

And that's a really great analogy. Additionally, Eli added the one of the keto. Right when things are coming at you, you have the response ability, ability to respond in a way that creates space. And then you decide how to direct that energy. And you get really good at this over time. It's like that wax on, wax off, all of a sudden, hey, I just learned kung fu. That's rad. So where do you see all this going for you? Like, what are some of your ambitions? What are some of the projects that are really exciting for you right now? What's happening in sri's world?

Oh, man. Well, so we just wrapped up as, you know, persuasive profits, which is a course that I run one to two times a year. So if you're listening to this, it'll probably be coming back the second week of September, so sign up for the list to get notified of that. But at the moment, mostly excited about Influence HQ that I'm doing the reboot. Totally new structure of Influence hq. And it's my mastermind group that we are just. It's all about getting stuff done and supporting each other and of course, always backed up with persuasive awesomeness. So, yeah, I'm super excited about that. I've created a structure within it that I think is very unique and very much supports the entrepreneur in very cool ways. So, yeah, working on that.

I love it. And if people are just trying to get kind of a sense of what you can offer or what, like, what would be a first program to really jump into that you would recommend that you could jump into today?

So there is. Well, at the moment, when does this go up to your podcast?

It's literally live at this moment on Facebook. However, the podcast will be coming out around my birthday, which is in August. I'm just saving up episodes so we can launch all at once.

Okay, cool. So at the moment there is the Building Personal Influence course, which is just a general overall view of how to build your own personal influence. It's not necessarily business leaning like some of my other programs, but we talk about, you know, body language, we talk about observing others, and influential techniques woven in there, of course. And by the time this officially goes up around August, I will have a. An E course, unnamed at the moment, but that's going to be like a weekly email series that teaches you something new each and every week. So my assistant and I are working on that as we speak.

I love it. I can't wait to check it out. And, you know, if, I guess, you know, the biggest question that people usually have when they listen to an expert like yourself is, you know, okay, show me that. Show me the pudding, right? What's the proof in the pudding? So can you maybe share one or two stories of your clients or people you've worked with where these types of principles, maybe the principle and the outcome that was really, you know, made the difference for them?

Okay, so one of my clients worked at a, quite literally a top secret job. I still don't know to this day exactly what they were doing or building. But he's an engineer of some sort and so connected to the military. And he worked at his job. I mean, he was at his job for well over 10 years and was wanting a promotion for the last five or so. But for whatever reason, he just kept getting overlooked. After he had taken one of my courses, we talked about how to. One of the main principles around influence is that you can say the same thing in many different ways. Your core message can be wrapped in a lot of different influential wrapping paper. So with him, we realized that anytime he presented a project, he was presenting the project purely from like a straightforward, here are the steps. And we discovered that his boss actually valued authority figures. And knowing that higher ups were interested or already signed off on or like, what the higher ups were saying, he was really about that authority. And so then in the next presentation, he woven a lot of that authority and a lot of statistics about other people who are using it and people who are getting a lot of credit for using this process. And what do you know? Next thing you know, he was the lead on that. The project got signed off, he was the lead, and within two months later, he got his promotion, something he had been striving for for five years. And we fixed it in one session and two months.

So I really like that. And another thing I geek out on is, like, when I see these examples, like, written into scripts of my favorite TV shows, like House of Cards, for example. Like, I see these little kind of persuasive little bits or Game of Thrones or whatever show you love to watch. And I'm like, oh, that's that thing they're doing. And I'm like, that's really cool because you're sometimes as an extrovert especially, and we're both kind of a similar extroverted profile. You know, you see things and you're like. Or people point things out that you do that you're kind of unconsciously competent about. And I know that's like the motherland where you want to get to, but for us, it's so hard to know because we're just kind of unconsciously competent, that when we're doing something on purpose versus when we're just doing something. So it's like this very inconsistent. Oh, that works. But we're not sure why. And that was the biggest thing for me, is like, I kind of know what works, but I don't know why it works or I don't have a principle or an understanding underneath it. And that's why I was so attracted to your course. It's like, oh, I want to understand the basics so that I have kind of a rubric or an index of like, oh, when I say that that's what I'm doing, or that's whatever. And again, I just want to preface this with all these are tools, right? You can use a tool to build a house. You could use a tool or hammer to build a house. You can use a hammer to hurt somebody. It's just really the wielder of the hammer. So, you know, these are just tools. Use them ethically, is all I would say. And, you know, what are. What are some of those things for you?

Oh, my goodness. Well, first of all, let me say that everybody is influential in some way or another. Everybody has a set of influential tools that they know how to use. The thing is, though, that they just might have two or three, and those two or three may not serve in every single scenario that they're going to face. So that's usually the trick, is building up, adding more tools to the toolbox. So you can just go through and raffle through and like, oh, this one's what I need. So nothing that I teach about influence is that you're not influential because everybody is in some capacity. It's just a matter of constantly improving. And that's the thing that I. One of the things that surprised me most from interviewing the CIA agents and the hostage negotiators and all those amazing people is they were students still. Even though, again, like you said, they quite literally saved lives based off of the words that they said in certain scenarios, they still were constantly learning. They all believe that they can continue to be better. And so that's a big red flag for me in customers or prospect of some sort who comes to me saying, like, oh, well, I already know a lot, and I. I mean, I'm pretty good at blah, blah, blah. And it's just like, oh, you don't. You don't have the right mindset for this. And so as long as people are like, oh, I can always be better, like even me, I'm teaching people, but I even know, like, I can still be better and I'm okay with that. In fact, it keeps it more fun and interesting. So in regards to the consciously or what is it Unconsciously competent, I had this happen the other day where I was. Somebody had actually was at the same event where Eli and I met. This other person was at our roundtable and he was just taking notes furiously and he loved it. And I was, I loved him. He was just like, so engaged. And so he and I got on a call later and we were just talking about ways to work with each other. And I said something and he was like, you just bucketed me. And I was like, I what you? And he's like, you just bucketed me. And he's like, the bucket technique. And I was like, oh, I guess I did. So he called out one of the techniques that he had learned from my speech, which. And also coined a new phrase which I never even thought of. You bucketed me. And so apparently I had used the bucket technique and I had no idea. It's just this is, this is how I have conversations with people. And that's the other thing is I often get asked like, well, what do you. How do you feel if you realize somebody's using techniques on you? Because they, that's what keeps most people away from using techniques is because they're afraid that other people will notice and then judge them. And there's so much of a mindset declutter that we have to do around influence. Which is why I use the phrase bringing the dark arts of influence into the light. Because again, there's nothing wrong with the techniques. It's just the bad people have had them for so freakin long. It's time for the good people to take up the mantle of influence and use it in a much more powerful and positive way. And so that fear of what do people notice? Means that you're afraid to acknowledge that you want something and that influences communication with a goal. And so you have to be comfortable with the fact that you want things from people. If you say that you don't, then you're just fooling yourself. And you're probably not going to make the marks that you want to make on this world because you cannot accomplish anything without rallying people in one form or another. So you have to get comfortable with the fact that you want things from people. You also have to get comfortable with the fact that in order to enhance your chances of accomplishing that, you're going to need some techniques and strategies nobody thinks about. Oh, if I say that I want to get fit, people are going to judge me. And if people find out that I'm working out and I'm actually lifting weights and I'm doing cardio, they're going to think I'm a bad person. Like, no, you're just going down the path that you have to go down to accomplish the goal that you have set out for yourself. It's the exact same thing. So in response to that question of, like, what do you think when you see somebody using techniques? It's basically, if I see them using it poorly, I just kind of laugh and I'm like, okay. Because usually the people using it poorly are just either clueless and because I'm an extrovert, I might help, or if I see them using it well, then I'm impressed.

Aha. A fisherman sees a fisherwoman from afar.

It's because it's like, okay, that's skill. That's art. You know? And it's like, somebody who is consciously communicating. God bless that person. Because way too many people are communicating on a very unconscious, autopilot level. And so people who choose their words well and in an aligned, authentic way do it all day long. I'm impressed. And I encourage it.

Yeah. And I think it goes to show, like, when I hear somebody using techniques on me that are blatant techniques and I know what they are and they're using them in a disingenuous way or to, you know, just not. To just. They're just not being authentic, and it just smells. It just, like, reeks. I get creeped out, and I, like, naturally push that person away because I'm just like, no, no, no, no. Just whatever you got to say, it totally undermines where if they just came to me like, hey, you know, I'm not trying to game you. I just, this is what I need. This is what I'm looking to accomplish. Like, I would actually prefer that maybe I'm different than most people, but I just love when people are authentic and they're just like, this is what I'm after and this is what I want, and there's no agenda. And, like, there's nothing. Like, there's no other shoe about to drop because there's nothing that I hate more than having my time wasted because people just aren't upfront with what they need and want and desire. And, like, I have no problem with that. But maybe you have a different perspective on that. Maybe I'm just impatient.

No, I'm just going to add a little nuance to that is because I think on the scale there's these scripts that people are given and yeah, that almost always falls flat. That's why in my courses and my coaching, I give people either models or guidelines or some sort of phrases. But always throughout the coaching, we figure out how would you say that? As long as you understand the principle of why this phrase is here and your, Your substitute phrase that just trips off the tongue easier for you, then use that. As long as it still supports the principle behind that phrase. So we have the scripted people and the templates that just completely fall flat. Then on the other side of the spectrum is the people who. And this is more of a crass way of saying, putting what you just said, but those people who just verbally vomit out what they want. And there's no. It's, it's rough, it's. It's jagged, it's clunky because they're just like saying, blah, blah, blah. Okay. I think that there's a sweet spot in between the two because the thing with the just saying things up front and, you know, I'm not saying all the time that that's wrong, but in circumstances, you still want to seduce the prospect. Right? To seduce the mark. So if you walk into a bar and just say to a girl, wow, you have a really great ass and man, you're pretty, I'd like to take you home today.

Yeah, I don't know if that was what I was talking about, but I get what you mean.

For some people that it can easily be interpreted as, well, I'm just going to be authentic and honest to me and I'm going to be upfront and I'm just. I just, I'm very aware of how people can perceive things. And so I want to. That's why I'm very specific around those nuances, is because some person may say, yeah, I totally don't want to be inauthentic, so I'm going to be completely authentic and just not have to study and not have to learn and not use techniques because I want to be me. It's like, okay, but you have to be very aware of how that might not serve you. Because if you don't know the game of that influential seduction, if you don't know the game of how to be collaborative in the conversation, then you might miss out on a few things. And again, it's all A choice. It's just simply what's going to serve you best, right?

And I guess two examples might be really prescient here. So, like, I had somebody reach out to me, we'll call him Bobby. And Bobby was interested in like, because he likes what I put out there. And he's like, I want to help you book podcast guests and I'm going to book you these five podcast guests. And you know, I'm going through some stuff right now. I don't need it right now, but maybe sometime in the future we could hop on a call and just talk about what I'm going through, like from that place. And he's actually doing it. Like, he shows up and he actually keeps his word and he's on top of it and he's not creeping people out or making me look bad. Like, that's a totally, like, I'm totally fair with that. Like, you know, some people don't have money to pay me for my services. Maybe they're willing to figure something out and it's like an easy thing. And then I have another guy, let's call him, you know, Gregory. Gregory is like, there's just, I still don't know what this guy wants. Like, he's just always want to get on my calendar and he's like backdoor and on my. And I'm like, this is creep me out. He's in this like false scarcity. He's leaving his five minute voicemails on my phone. It's like, dude, like, I don't know what you're up to, but something's, it's, it's not resonating, it's not job, it's not working. And I just want to like, sit down and be like, all right, like, let's get clear on what it is that we're doing here. Because right now I'm just creeped out. Like, I don't know, you're just being weird. Whatever you're trying is not working, you know, and it's not authentic and there's just not, it's not lining up for me.

Well, and that may, that goes to another influential principle is maybe he doesn't even know what he wants. And so like I said, influences communication with a goal, any goal setting, course or article or whatever says you have to be specific, so you have to be. And I still, I keep continue to learn this. So I've been wanting to launch a number of different programs and stuff, and I've always had the idea. And I'm like, yeah, I'm gonna do that, but it's not until I'm specific about. This is the structure, this is the start date, this is the price point, this is who it serves. Without that clarity, I, one, I'm always, I always procrastinate and it never happens. Or two, when I talk about it, I'm all wishy washy and it never connects because I don't know what the goal is. And so maybe with him, he just, maybe he just doesn't have clarity around the goal either.

Yeah, and that's, that's totally valid. I just, I feel like there's like some angle or game that I'm just not aware of. So I'm just like, I'm just gonna leave alone. I have time for that, you know, Like, I just don't like my time wasted. I don't like coming down the road with people. It's like they need something. I want to be in generative relationships. And all that means to me is, you're okay, cherie, you're going to be fine. You're going to be successful whether or not we're in each other's lives. I'm going to be fine, successful whether or not we're in each other's lives. But when we come together, we can collaborate in a way that's better than the sum of our parts. We can add value to each other's lives in ways that make sense for both of us. That's a generative relationship. And I think all relationships that are strong with world class players, you know, need to have that element of like, you know, not taking or horse trading, but like, oh, you know, we're going to give to each other and therefore be better together.

Mm, yeah. Well, you just used two influential triggers.

Okay, let's talk about them. Because this is something I just, this is like my message and my ethos. So I want to understand what the real again, this is bringing the unconscious competence to the conscious.

Yeah. So I mean, there's an element of quid pro quo obviously in that discussion of like, we, we help each other out. And I mean, these aren't the phrases they use, but kind of like, you scratch my back, I scratch yours. You provide value, I provide value back. So that's just basic quid pro quo, which is great. I mean, society is built off of quid pro quo.

We need each other. Right. We need to cooperate as a society. Wouldn't work otherwise.

100%. 100%. So then the other thing that you did was you called out towards a higher significance. So when you said of like, you know, you'll be fine, I'll be fine. But together we, you know, and all the. Just that whole beautiful speech that you just gave, it's calling to a higher self. And oftentimes this is what a lot of people miss in a lot of conversations is because they think that they're selling to the person that's in front of them. And what I constantly teach my clients is you're not selling to the person in front of you. You're selling to the person that they want to become, the business that they want to have. You're selling to the leader that they want to be. You're selling. It's always that higher self. And you get them to define what that is, and you, you hold them to that standard. And so. And in fact, it's one of the most influential triggers in the real, like, world of influence. Like the major leagues of field agents is off more often than not. So an agent one. So the best field agents are basically defined by how many assets they're able to gather. So how many people who are not working for, who are not spies, who are actually civilians or involved in either an ally or an enemy's activities, how many of those people can you get to give you information so that you know what's going on everywhere and you understand the nuances of a situation? So the people that you can turn to an asset, yeah, there are those people. You can just pay them money. You can just, you know, if you give us, you know, information on this, will give you 80 grand or whatever it is. But those are the least reliable ones because if North Korea comes in and wants to pay them 120k, well, guess what? That type of person is going to take that money as well. And then there's a whole bunch of issues with it. But the type of person that you can recruit to be an asset that is doing it for a higher purpose, for their family, for their community, for their principals, for the world that they want to see, even if it means putting themselves at risk. Those are the people who are there through the thick of it because they're calling to that higher self. They're calling to that level of significance instead of just the base level of money. And even though we're not playing in the majors of influence, thank God we're playing in the minors of just doing business transactions, we still can learn from that principle that if you just keep it on the surface level of time for money or this number of sessions for that, then you're not going to have very loyal people in your lives. But if you can raise it to the level of significance, then you've got a very strong relationship and a very long relationship.

Yeah. It's so funny you said that, because something just came up for me. I got a client testimonial. I'll say who it is. Andrew told me that you consistently see more in me than I see in myself. And when you hear something like that, you're like, that's why you do what you do. You know, it's because people come back and it's like, what you. You came into their life and just because you showed up and you're like, hey, I'm gonna give, give, give, give, give as much as I possibly can. Their lives have changed forever. And the domino ripple effects go on into eternity. It becomes a legacy. It's a beautiful thing. And I think everybody has that power. Everybody has that gift in some way.

Yeah, absolutely.

Tools can allow you to transmute that into whatever you want, whether it be, you know, speaking, authorship, sales, marketing, money, whatever it is. Right. This is just the playbook, if you will. So we want to give people some actionable value they can take away. Right now on this call, what would be like, one framework or one kind of, you know, three step? Or, like, we could talk about vibes. I really love vibes. I use it all the time. And I always give you credit because it's just amazing. What do you think is like a cool little nugget that people can start to use right now?

Let's talk about the vibes, man. I mean, it's. I feel like it's as close as we can get to skeleton key when it comes to influence. So the influential vibes, it's five different things that you can look for in your mark, and mark is just simply the shorthand way of saying the person you want to influence. And so the five influential drivers that you can use to then connect to your influential intention. So it starts off with V, which is the values. What is important to them? The values are our core operating system that tell us this is good, this is bad, this is right, this is wrong, this is what I should do. This is what I shouldn't do. So what is important to them? What do they value? Do they value family? Do they value freedom? Do they value wealth? Do they value vanity? And also, we have to be very aware that we should not judge what they value, because you cannot influence somebody that you're judging. So if somebody values vanity, and they are the person that you have to Influence, then you need to be able to hook your influence into that vanity without thinking like, ugh, such a surface level jerk. Like, it won't work. So be aware of what's important to them. And that's the values. The second is the identifiers. What are the labels that they put on themselves? And the easiest way to remember this is a well known Maya Angelou quote, which is when somebody tells you who they are, believe them. So when they say, I'm lazy or I'm a go getter, or I always do this or I never do that, what do they say about themselves and what labels do they put on themselves? Because if you can validate that and more often in early stage sales conversations, you want to validate identifiers. Only in coaching situations do I think that you might challenge an identifier. But in early stages, there's really very rarely a need for it. So how can you validate that identifier in your conversation? Next is going to be beliefs. So what are the stories that they say about their world? Beliefs are very closely connected to values. So for example, if somebody gets super upset, if somebody shows up late to a call, clearly there's something been triggered. Well, what is that? They could quite possibly. And if you just ask them, why does it upset you? They could say, well, it's just so disrespectful. Oh, so being late means disrespect. Which for some people it certainly doesn't. It just means I showed up late. There is no story to it. But for others, they have a story around it. So what is the story that they have around this conversation? Next is influential. I'm sorry, emotional triggers. So what puts them in a positive state, what puts them in a negative state? And in sales conversations, you can easily leverage both. You need to anchor in that negative feeling of when they experience that problem, that frustration, that issue. And then what is the trigger that makes them feel that? Is it when they get up in the morning and their knees are tight and stiff because they're out of shape? Okay, then you can. That's a trigger for that frustration, that shame, that whatever that is. And also obviously, the positive triggers, what puts them in a positive mood around what it is that you're wanting to influence them towards. And then the last one is the S, which is secret goals and desires. Now I say secret because it sounds sexier, but really could easily be stated goals or desires. And that's totally fine. Exactly. So again, that just goes to what you and I were just talking about. What is Their higher self, what are they aspiring to? Whether it's a specific goal of I'd love to take a beach vacation in Tahiti, or if it's I really want to be a better mom, just simply what is it that they want, that they see for themselves, whether it's external or internal. And then, of course, if your influential intention can easily connect to that, then you're really good to go. So those are the influential vibes.

I love it. So just to recap and thank you, Neelam. Thank you. Everybody's jumping in. Mike Daly, everybody, on the. On the live. Just to recap, we have values, identifiers, beliefs, emotional triggers and secret or stated goals and desires, and that's your influential vibes. And in order to influence somebody, you must know what already influences them, correct?

Yeah. And that goes to our simple three steps of influence is influence isn't jumping up to that third step. Influence is three steps, which is to first observe. And so you're observing all the vibes. And then connect. And connect is both connect with them, build that rapport, but also connect your observations to your influence, which is the third step to now present your most influential argument by connecting into all of those influential drivers from the vibes.

And that, my friends, is the keys to influence. It's the keys to the influence kingdom. And Sheree, I just want to say on behalf of the Make More Marvels community, we are so grateful for you taking your time today and sharing with us your light and your knowledge and your skill. It's taking you several, several years, maybe a decade or more to learn. And what I always do is I always spring this on people who come on the show is Make More Marvels. We talk about planting seeds, seeking every encounter to diagnose, create space for serve, support and solve, and then also crops, connect resources, opportunities, people and systems together in order to help you further your mission faster. So what is some way in which we can give back to you as a community, either individually or the people listening at home? What connection, what resource, what opportunity, what person, what system would help you get there next?

Oh, man. At the moment, first of all, thank you. That's very kind and generous of you and your community. Right now, I just would love for people to sign up for the email list because we've got so much fabulous content just ready to roll out and rock out. And I'm similar to you. I'm purely in a place of service. And so if they go to the website and there's a few different ways you can sign up, just Depending on what you know suits your fancy. But there's the mind reader blueprint, which is a simple series of questions and all the principles outlined in it of what I personally go through when I'm creating, copy or before a presentation or sales conversation. It's literally the mind reader blueprint, how to start reading the minds of people that you talk to. I love it. And so, yeah, just sign up for that. And then of course, if you get the emails and you like what you see, then just reply back and let me know like, hey, that was cool. And that that keeps me going, man. That just. That makes me happy to share the message of positive influence.

Yeah. There's two reasons I love Sheree. She loves what she does and it shows. And she's super responsive. So if you send her a note, you'll actually get one back and usually pretty quickly. So thank you, Cherie, for being on the show. So, cherie alexander.com or what's the.

Or even observe, Connect. Influence is usually easier for people to spell.

Go to observeconnectinfluence.com check out Sheree's work. It's changed my life and the way I approach business and it's helped me to help more people. So, you know, if that's the goal, then go out and do it for sure. Guys, thank you so much. Cherie, thank you so much for being on the show. Thank you for listening. And from everybody here at Make More Marbles, we are grateful. We'd love to have you back on sometime.

Thanks, Brad. Thanks, everybody.

Bye. Thanks so much for listening to the Make More Marbles podcast. For more tips, hacks and strategies to create an amazing, abundant life in your health, wealth and relationships, whatever that means to you, head on over to makemoremarbles.com check out our cool explainer video about what we're about and join our community of entrepreneurial game changers. We want to help you level up your life in every possible way. And don't forget to subscribe to us on itunes, Stitcher or Google Play wherever you're listening your podcast. And please do leave a review. Thank you so much and we'll see you on the next podcast.