Make More Marbles Podcast with Brad Hart Interview by Ray Brehm

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Welcome back to another amazing session. Ray Brim here. I'm with Brad Hart, who is the founder of Make More marbles. He's got 20 years as an entrepreneur and 16 years managing wealth under his belt. And he's committed to helping entrepreneurs and investors reach their full potential so they can focus on solving the grand challenges of our time. Obviously, his company is making more marbles, and we're going to get into some of the things that he teaches, his expertise, Masterminds, mindset. Mostly masterminds, I guess. But anyway, Brad, welcome aboard.

Hey, thanks so much for having me, Ray. I appreciate it. And thank you all you authors and prospective authors out there for listening. I hope you get a lot out of this conversation because as an author myself, I know how challenging it can be when you meet people who are like, I want to write a book or I wrote a book, and I'm, you know, I May, I sold 20 copies or 50 copies or 100 copies, and it's kind of a flop versus, you know, I know authors that make $100 million a year off their book. I've made $2 million off my book myself. You know, so it's like, I believe you have a really important story or vision inside you and you want to make a big impact. And I want to help you bring that to life and also monetize it so you can spread your mission far beyond your current reach.

Yeah. And I'm trying to think because I thought I saw a stat somewhere. I ordered your book the other day and it's on its way, but I was hoping to have a physical copy.

Oh, here we go.

Well, you've got one. So, yeah, of course, pop it up.

But never too far away.

Let's talk about that for a second. I mean, just, it's kind of my mantra. But. And most people, if you're watching this, you probably have heard it before, but you're not making the money from that book by having it on Amazon.

That's right. No. In fact, I discourage. I try to discourage people from buying on Amazon. They still do anyway, but I price it three and a half times higher on Amazon than I do when you buy it from us directly. And when you buy from us directly, it's a free plus shipping offer, meaning you pay $6 and I ship it to you. Anywhere in the world, I would do it for free, but I want people to actually read it. So I do offer it for a very low actual cost out of pocket. And that seems to work really well. Right. And there's different Ways to think about this. So, like Alex Hormozi, for example, you know, he just had a big launch where he put out his book and his course and all these things. He's just trying to get as many people to consume his content as possible so that he can help build trust with the entrepreneurial community and then filter up the people that he wants at the $3 million mark. And he wants to be able to take those businesses over or, you know, buy them or. Or help scale them or whatever. He's got a very different offer than I do, which is like, I'm helping people build mastermind groups. And why is that? Because they want to increase their income and impact in less time. They want to add $100,000 in profit to their business this year and do it in about five, ten hours a month. Right. So. So for me, the book is to qualify people that can do that. Books are just one way to do that. You could do it through books, podcasts, videos, etc. Get them excited, get them knowing, liking, and trusting me somewhat so that by the time they come and have a conversation with us, we are not just, you know, starting from scratch. And I've even noticed this. Like, I have super high qualified people who come to me through mastermind groups because I'm a part of a lot of them as well. For example, this guy Jay last week, group great guy P, you know, in c. CPG space, has done millions and millions of dollars worth of deals.

And he.

He's like kind of mastermind curious, but he's so far in the beginning that even he's really qualified. I had to like, kind of tell him a lot of stories and get him up to speed and who am I? What have I done and why am I an expert? Like, you have to kind of start checking all these boxes where your book can do a lot of the heavy lifting for you. So if somebody buys your book, actually consumes it, they're like, you know, 15 times more likely to buy from you again than somebody who maybe saw you one time or just kind of knows your name. You want them to get intimately connected with you and maybe resonate with some of your stories. And it helps also filter out people who would never be a good fit because it gives you a chance to show your who you are, warts and all, right, it's like, this is my story. This is how I grew up. This is where I am. And not beat them over the head with that kind of stuff, but tell it in a way that kind of gives them A sense of why you ended up here and what led to your success and failures, what you learned and give them value from that story. So I'm telling you this story in order to give you value, which is if you're going to write a book or you have written a book, two things that I think will be really valuable for you. It's never done. That's Thing one, I've rewritten this book four times now because I always learn more and I always want to streamline it and make it better. So if you bought it from me five years ago, it's going to be a different book than he bought it for me today. And you can check that book out@8minutemastermind.com so that's that. That's thing one. Thing two is if you don't have a backend offer, you're wasting your time with a book. You just are. Like, if you're in business to make money and help people and expand your reach and your vision, you could write a book and five or ten people read it and that's fine. Or you can get a publishing deal and you go to Barnes and Nobles. Any one of those books, some of them sold less than a thousand copies. I would say the vast majority have sold less than a thousand copies. Or you can build an engine that allows people to self select and filter down to the people who will actually pay you to work with them, which gives you Runway for all these other things you want to do. Make an impact, set a bigger vision. Whatever it is you want, financial freedom, you want, you know, to spend more time with your family, you just don't want to have a boss. Whatever it is, right. Whatever your goals are, a book can help you get there. But it's just part of a larger puzzle. And that's what I want to really come away with here.

Yeah, I mean, it's, it's.

Wow.

For the last five or six years, my mantra has been like, look, your book is not your breadwinner. And most people still are buying into and there's some guru selling it, this idea that it's passive income and financial freedom. It's like, no, that's just like you said, this piece of the puzzle. And I, man, I could have a conversation, three separate interviews about this. You know, one is about that and how your funnel is structured and so forth. Two would be about you. And I discuss this a few days ago about mindset and kind of needing some kind of free education mindset on the front end, that it's a good Thing what you just said, you're letting people know that you can help them and how you can help them. And if you don't, you're, you know, that's you're harming the people that you could help by not telling the world. And of course mainly we want to talk about. So but let's jump to masterminds because obviously that's a great backend offer and let's talk about that. What people can do to.

So Ray, I mean people listening. If you're already there and you're kind of on board with the idea of, okay, I get it that it's not just a book, I get that this is part of a larger thing. Well, now you kind of have a front end offer which is your book. And now you need to think about what your back end offer going to be. And there's only so many, right? I've done them all, so I can list them off for you, right? You could do coaching, right? One on one or you could do group coaching, you could do an event, right? Which one can lead into the other, right? These can all be stacked together somehow. I wouldn't recommend trying all of them at once. It's too many. Just pick one, right? You could do a membership, you could do a retreat, you could do any number of different things. And I think a course, right, that could be one mastermind kind of has some of the better elements of all those without all the brain damage of the other ones, just to be perfectly honest. Right. It's just a lower risk, higher return model when you factor all, everything in. And I can kind of give you the play by play and I have a whole slideshow about this, but I won't bore you with that now. I landed on masterminds and I keep doing masterminds because they're the highest leverage, highest income, lowest need for inventory and infrastructure, the least amount of people need to be involved and you can charge the most and make the most profit, right? Whether you do them in person, whether you do them virtual, whether you do them hybrid, whatever it is. A typical mastermind is at least in the business niche, which is like 80% of masterminds are going to be from 10 to 30, sometimes 50 or even 100,000 a year. And I'm part of all types of masterminds all the way from free and invite only up to $100,000 a year. And they're all different and they have different people in them. And when you start to look at the quality of the relationships and I've Been at this for, you know, 13 years since I started this particular business. I've been doing this, specifically masterminds, for the last five or six years, teaching this. The funny distinction is like, when you go to look at your relationships and the quality of those relationships, 90% of the people I'm meeting that are high quality, real go getters, investors, philanthropists, whatever big businesses are through masterminds. And the remaining 10% that I feel like I'm close to, that I feel like I could call up and have a real conversation with, have come through my list, which, you know, is not insignificant, the size of it, right? We're, we're reaching tens and tens of thousands of people with every email. We're. They're actually reading them. And our socials are in the five figures as well. We're not enormous, but we're, we're big enough where like, I can see the difference starkly of like where the quality comes from versus where the quantity comes from. And yeah, people do filter through that are awesome. That come through my book and come through our funnels and come through our YouTube channel, all that great stuff. But the probability, if I had to bet dollars to donuts of where they're going to come from is from masterminds, just because I've tried everything else and events would be the second to that. So I could tell a couple quick stories of people in my life who have had insane transformations as a result of masterminds that I wouldn't have met otherwise. So, for example, Chris, he was a cop in New Zealand. I met him at Tony Robbins. He burned out on the force after seven years, became a personal trainer, wasn't getting it done. The financial side decided, hey, I want to go and start a mastermind for cops. So like, okay, cool. I've never heard of a mastermind for cops, but let's test it out. Let's be scientific about it. Can we see if this works? And we brought him through a process and he got 15 clients out of the gate that year. He went on to get 100 clients. He had a month that year where he made more as a mastermind facilitator than he'd ever made as a cop or a personal trainer. He also learned Instagram ads. This is a guy who was a cop. He didn't know anything about business. We taught him Instagram ads. He's getting $9 for every dollar he's spending on Instagram ads. Which I don't know about you, Ray, but if I find a machine where a dollar goes in and $9 comes out. I'm going to be looking at my couch cushions for change. Like, I'm going to scale that as fast as I can. He now has been working at it for four or five years. He's had over 600 clients come through his mastermind, right? And that's all group. That's no, like individual hand holding one on one. That's, that's very consistent income for him. And it's, it's really changed the course of his destiny and future. And now we're even starting to look at real estate deals together and like, cool stuff like that. We go on motorcycle trips together. We, we've traveled New Zealand for 10 days. We just went on one for. His uncle is a famous actor who you would have heard of. And anyway, so, you know, that's one person that's in my life as a result of Masterminds. And teaching him this skill has impacted hundreds of other lives that I would have never met. Like, how many cops from New Zealand am I going to meet, right? And now there's hundreds that are better off because I, I helped him. Another great example, Jasmine, she came to me, she had two masterminds already. She was introduced to me through a mutual friend who was a client also through the Tony Robbins community. You know, I'm a part of a lot of these communities. Landmark and Tony Robbins, all these. And she like, hey, I got these two masterminds. I'm working a lot. You know, I'm doing these events. I'm a senior leader at Tony. I'm trying to just make it work. And I'm working 80 hours a week and I'm not making enough money. I'm like, okay, well, let's look at your process. Let's get you in the program. Let's help you out. Within 90 days, we got her down to 30 hours a week, so 63% less working hours. And we also tripled her revenue in the same time because we just tweaked the model, right? It wasn't that she wasn't an awesome rock star and an A player. She definitely was. But she was like, there's two ways to get to China. There's a rowboat and there's a private jet. Which would you prefer? Right? We just had to change the model. Because she was a level 8 or 10 entrepreneur and a level 2 or 3 opportunity, we had to shift some things. So even though she was doing a Mastermind, quote unquote, she wasn't really getting the benefit because she wasn't doing it the correct way. She wasn't using leverage. Possibly. And that story doesn't end there. She ended up buying all our other programs, becoming a top testimonial until I had to fire her hashtag integrity because now she's my fiance and we're getting married in March. So, you know, that's a person that wouldn't be in my life if I hadn't started a mastermind. So you creating this mastermind shaped on your values and putting out, you know, messaging into the world, including your book, helps attract people towards you that you wouldn't have met otherwise. And business partnerships have come out of this. I had a mastermind I did in China where on the back of that we built a business from 0 to 75k a month, recurring in six months on the, on the strength of that mastermind. Oh, by the way, I got paid to go there. I got paid to hang out, I got paid to meet people, I got paid to network. I learned a lot of cool shit and I got a million dollar business out of it. Pretty awesome, right? Then you know, there's, there's people that maybe they're a little further along in their journey. They've already graduated out of working day to day in their business. They're crushing it. On the financial side, I have a client named aj. AJ had five years in the bank. He was driving to Bentley. He lived in a 10 bedroom house. Money was not the issue. He felt bored, he felt disconnected and lonely. He's like, I've worked myself out of my business and I don't even know what I'm doing my life anymore. I'm like, great. He's like, I want to start a mastermind. Like, great, let me help you. He's like, I don't want to figure this out from scratch. Here's cut a check. The money's irrelevant. I'm like, okay, awesome. Within a month, we had his offer figured out. He made a pitch at his event and he sold 15 spots and made 150 grand or whatever it was. But the money was irrelevant. It was the impact. Now he brings those people to his house, his 10 bedroom house, fills it up with laughter and joy and fun and breakthroughs and all this cool stuff and does that four times a year. And that's his whole business. He still has the asset that he built, but now he has this impact and fulfillment vehicle as well. So that's why masterminds are important to me, right? That, that's really what I want to create for people. I want to give them A better model. So they're not a level 10 entrepreneur with a level 10 skill set and a level 2 opportunity that is not going to get them to China very fast. Right. Or wherever they're trying to go. They're going to be beating a lot of waves and battling and they could just get on the private jet with us.

What's the. So if somebody's watching and they're kind of like, well, yeah, but am I qualified? You probably get slightly. Well, wait, I thought masterminds had to be, you know, whatever, some phantom number of years in the business and so forth. What do you tell people about that? And, and, and also, you know, obviously from the financial side and so forth. It makes sense. Do it sooner if you can. But what do you tell people they're like, well, I'm not sure I'm qualified to host a mastermind.

So what you're referring to is a. Is a thing called imposter syndrome. That means that we feel like we're not good enough to give advice or we're not good enough to help people or what do we know, or whatever that is. And that's a healthy thing. Like you, those feelings. Because that means that you're not a sociopath, full stop. Right? So first off, acknowledge yourself, pat yourself on the back. I'm not a sociopath. I actually want to help people. Great. Awesome. Now can you ask questions? Well, yeah, I mean, everybody can ask questions. Can you help people get clear on what's actually going on? Yeah, I would say that. Especially if you're in a room of people, can you get clear on what's actually going on? Can you facilitate that outcome? Not fixing it, not solving it, not having the perfect solution. Can you help them get clear on what's actually going on? Good job. That's more than half the battle. That's it. Most people who are struggling with something are just not clear on what's actually going on. Once they are clear, a lot of them solve it themselves. Fancy that, right? Once you just bring. Once you just ask enough questions to peel away all the crap around it and reveal the whole iceberg that's actually underneath. They're like, oh, I just need to do X, Y and Z. Okay, cool, right? That's most people. And then for the people that aren't one of two things gonna happen. Either the people in the room, including yourself, are gonna help them solve that challenge by connecting the resources and opportunities and people and systems and keeping them accountable. And maybe you make a bet with them or whatever it is you get the leverage that you need. Or you're not gonna know how to solve it, but you're gonna know what the hell it is. And now you can go to myself or somebody else who knows more or has more connections that can help you. But you're clear, that's the most important thing. So that's the first step. That's what a mastermind in its true essence, if you boil it down to the number one thing, it's clarity. But there's two other things. It's community and it's content, right? So as you grow it, as you build it, you start with the clarity, you build community and content. That gets it more valuable. The next thing is there's an Eisenhower matrix of results and relationships. And I borrowed this from a colleague of mine who wrote a really great book called oh, crap, what is it? It's actually on my shelf back here. I don't want to ruin the flow to go grab it. But it's results and relationships, and that's basically the Eisenhower metric. So if you're thinking about people in your mastermind, what do they want? They want to get results and they want to build relationships. And if they're getting results, but they're not getting relationships, it's like they're immersionary, right? They come in, they get what they need, they're out, right? If they're in there and they're getting relationships, but they're not getting results, well, now they're just paying you to hang out with their friends. That's not fun either. Obviously, if they get neither, what the hell are they doing there? But if they get both and they get both consistently and that's what you focus on, how can they get better results and how can they build better relationships? Now it's not about anything you have to do. It's about the feeling they get that they invested in something they want to continue to invest in. That's when you get clients for years, and that's when you build real, you know, great relationships that stand the test of time. I helped you get results. You got value and you made friends and you stayed a part of this family. And now the pain of going away from that is too great. They don't want to leave. They're getting awesome results and they have awesome relationships, and they keep showing up and they keep paying every year, year after year after year. But if you're missing one of those two, you're going to have a hard time. And that's where I see a lot of masterminds get wrong. They have these cobbled together frameworks and puzzles and all these bells and whistles and stuff. They saw because they joined a $20,000 mastermind, looked around, said, oh, I could do this and make half a million dollars too. And it's really not true. Like, there's an art to it and there's nuance to it, but there's also these simple, tiny little pieces that I can plug into your brain hole and be like, yo, try this instead of that and here's why. And then they go do it and they get a better result. Right? Some people just can't sell. They don't know how to sell because they don't look at A, they have a mindset issue or B, they have a skills issue. A is like, okay, I have a mindset around sales. I think sales is whatever. Right. Sales is X. Right. Whatever your belief is. I believe the sales and service and nothing happen until you sell. And nothing happens until somebody's enrolled. And nothing happens until they're invested. And the more they're invested, the more they have leverage on themselves to get the result. That's what I believe about sales. And therefore I do a lot of high ticket sales. I sell a lot of high ticket masterminds. It works for me, it works for my clients who believe those things. And then the technical pieces are, can you ask questions? I can teach you how to ask questions. You already know how to ask questions. I can teach you what questions to ask. It's not about having some crazy script. It's not about having some, you know, unbeatable sales process. 10 times X. Oh my God. Close, close, close. It's about, can you ask questions? Can you help people get clear? And if they're clear, generally speaking, they will do what the next step is, which is hopefully join your mastermind or not. And that's okay too, because integrity is saying, I'm helping you get clear so that you can take the next steps whether it's with me or not. Sometimes it's not the right fit.

What just to give. Is there a, a standard or a garden variety? You know, what, what would happen in a month? Like, so if, if somebody's like, well, okay, yeah, I'd like to do that, but what does it, what does that mean to me? Am I doing a two hour call every month? I'm creating, releasing content. What do people normally. Yeah, so the bin. What would be the expectation?

So much. The business model is, are my, am I getting results and am I getting relationships? And results can come in a variety of factors. Right? Just like there's a certain number of people that are going to buy a book and consume it, there's a vast number more that are going to consume videos and maybe take action based on videos or listen to podcasts or audiobooks based on that. I mean, reading a book is like, you got to sit down, you got to take a physical object, you got to put it in your brain hold, you got to think about it, you got to meander, you got to come back to it because you won't finish it in one sitting. That's a lot, right? There's a lot of ways to get people results, too. There's a lot of ways to put your name out there, and there's a lot of ways to get results. And you kind of have to customize that a little bit to your people. If your people are readers and they consider things deeply, well, then a book is a great thing. If your people are in your mastermind and they're like, give it to my team. I can't handle these details, then do that, right? If your people are, I need to do all this myself because that's where my budget is and that's what my skill set is, and that's where I'm at. Okay, great, right? They're probably not a great fit for a mastermind at that stage, but a lot of people joining a mastermind, they want to understand what's cutting edge, they want to understand what's working, right? And this is, again, 80% of masterminds are business, gross mastermind or something along those lines. What's working right now? What's the least brain damage, way for me to implement it and get leverage? And how fast can I do that without losing sight of what's important, right? Because really, business is a series of experiments. So you, as the facilitator, as the curator of this mastermind, you're bringing in the people who have the cutting edge thing that's working that you can share with them. That's part of your job. And remember, it doesn't come from you. It comes from. What do they need? Who has it? Part of it is individual help, right? It's like, let me help you get this person or connect to this person or find this person, or who do you need to hire or who do you need to go to next? Part of it is keeping them accountable. You know, what'd you say you were going to do? Did you actually do it? Why didn't you do it? What happens if you don't, right? Give them a consequence, Hate is a powerful motivating force. Use whatever you got to use. Get creative here. But understand human psychology is very simple. It's away from pain towards pleasure. Right? So what you give them is what they need. And how you structure it is how you structure it. I can give you example structures, a lot of those. But really, I want you to understand the, the nuance of why we're doing a structure. Like what is the promise, what is the process, what is the structure? And as a result of those three things, what is the pricing? And the pricing should be evaluated based on the value, not based on, you know, any random number. It's just like, what, what is this transformation worth to you? If you spent a year in this mastermind and got this result, or three months, or six months, or 12 years, whatever it is, and got this result, what would that be worth to you? I'm going to charge you at least 1/10 of that for sure, if not more.

So obviously the structure. Yeah, there's some, there's flexibility there. And it also depends. Let's just go back and kind of just touch on the reason you can get a mastermind up and running quickly. And it's the highest return compared to all the rest.

Yeah, great question. So how long does it take to write a book? Takes a long time. Publishing, revisions, edits, typecast, like design, all that stuff. Right. How long does it take to build a course? A pretty long time, especially a good course. And there's, there's a lot of competition nowadays for courses. So if you're gonna make something great, it's gotta be like, well thought out. Instructional design, you know, and, and graphic design. And, and you gotta film it and you gotta put it in a portal and you gotta deal with lms. You gotta get people there, you gotta learn how to sell it. And was it a webinar? Is it a sales page? What is it like? There's all these bits and bobs that go into that, right? All the team that takes to support a big launch. Do I need affiliates? Do I not? Right. It's like any business model. You see, you see the tip of the iceberg. You don't see the 50 people working behind the scenes to make it happen. And I've, I've run 30 person launches. It's, it's a lot of moving parts. Right. If you're going to start an event. I spent $120,000 on my last event before we even opened the doors. Not to mention all the teams of people that made it happen so that a hundred people could transform. Now, we. We did 600,000 top line on the back of it, which.

Hooray.

But, you know, like, it's a risk, right? It's a risk to do that. I can do a mastermind in two weeks. I can do it without a bunch of overhead. I can rent an Airbnb or do it virtually. I can do it without.

When you say do it like a launch. Launch one, you're saying, yeah, like, do.

A little beta just to test it out. Like, I'm not trying to do the scale before I do the nail. Right? I got to nail the thing before I scale the thing. So I'm going to test it out as an experiment. Like, what's the least amount of money and time I can spent to see if it even works or not? So really, it just comes down to conversations at that point. Can I talk to 20 people about this, and can I get five of them to say yes and give me money? And if that's the case, well, there might be a bigger market for this. So if I'm already serving somebody with my book, the natural extension of that is, you know, come with me to this place and we'll do this thing and we'll work on it for three or four days and. And see where we land. And then I would love for you to give me a testimonial or feedback or both. Right? And I'm charging you half of what I'm going to charge people in the future. I'm going to give you twice as much individual attention as people are getting in the future. And if you really don't love it, I'll give your money back. And if people aren't willing to buy those under the circ. Buy that under those circumstances for that experiment, then you probably need to change it and try again. But it didn't take you six months at 100 grand. It took you two weeks.

And you're saying like, hey, this is a pilot mastermind, or something like that, right? Exactly.

Larry, tell people where it's at. I'm thinking about doing this. I may never do this again. Would this be interesting to you? Would you want to have a conversation about it?

So hypothetically, it's like, okay, I've got two. I'm gonna send out some emails or however I communicate with. However where my audience is.

I mean, I would go with the highest vibration. The highest vibration communication. If you got their number, call them. If you don't, if you can't call them, you can't get on the phone, text them. You can't text them, email them. If you can't email them, whatever, right? If you could send a note to their house. Send a note to their house. I've gotten really cool, you know, kind of sexy mastermind invitations, you know, just apropos of nothing in like a video mail that showed up at my house or a FedEx or something that really stood out, like a nice metal name tag, you know, showed up to my house with a letter saying, hey, I'd really love you to be in my mastermind, so on and so forth, you know, and if you want to talk about it, let's, let's get on a call. Like you can do a lot to stand out. It doesn't take much. But you're not trying to market to everybody. You're trying to market to the 10 or 20 people that you do. If you just send an email, your list and say, oh, masterminds don't work well, what did I say earlier? 90% of my top level connections have come from other masterminds. 10% have come through my list. They are not engaged at the level that these other people are engaged with, but you probably have 20, 50, 100, 150, 200 people, whatever it is, however long you've been doing this, where it's like you know them, they know you, they will answer your phone calls, they will change their plans to do whatever you're up to. And if you don't have that level of influence yet, you have to consider how you're going to build it because that's probably a prerequisite. It's not, it's not going to kill you if you don't have it, but it's certainly going to make everything you do harder.

Let's just say those two weeks, I mean, it's what's the outline or product launch, formula launch, or you do a long workshop or you.

I'm not saying those aren't valuable for the second phase, right? Those are super valuable when you go to scale it. I just want to do the five step process, right? So the five step process for us is what's your vision? Let's dream up your vision. Let's make it compelling so you actually take action because none of the tips and tracks, tactics and strategies. You're never going to implement any of that shit if you're not compelled by the vision yourself. Fair. Right. You got to be emotionally bought in before you do anything. Just like you're emotionally bought in to grind it out and write a book. Just like you're emotionally Bought into. Listen to this interview right now. You had to be emotionally bought in or you wouldn't do it, right? So get yourself emotionally bought in first with the vision. That's how you do that. Vision gives. Jordan Peterson said this. I think it's great. Vision gives people hope and lowers their anxiety so that they can take action. That's it. That's all it has to do. Increase hope, lower anxiety, take action. Right? So get your vision to a point where you can do that. Cool. Now your vision's compelling enough, you're in motion. What's the next thing? Invite 20 people, 25 people, 30 people, 50 people to a market research call. Don't even make it a sales call. Just be like, hey, I have nothing to sell you. I'm thinking about doing a thing. I'd love to ask you some questions about it and see if it would be a good fit to do it. That's it.

How's that a group call? Or you're saying a.

Or it could be a group call, but I would do one on one. Just because you want to really be able to customize and tailor the messaging for that particular person. And quiet people will get lost in the weeds, and you'll miss the individual responses, which are so golden at this point. Guys, you're starting something brand new. Stop trying to scale from zero to a million without, you know, making every one of those thousand dollars in between. It doesn't work. You can't go from zero to a million tomorrow with no work in between. I'm sorry. I hate to break it to you. So do the work. Talk to the individual people. Get the individual pieces. We have this whole training. We do exactly that. And my client Sonia went through this, and she's, you know, a corporate trainer, and she's really good at sales, and she came out of her business and. Or the work. The business. She was working in the uk Moved to Oman. She's like, I can't keep doing that job, so I want to build a mastermind. I said, great. And I'm good at sales, so I'm going to do it this way. I said, okay, great. What's your plan? She said, I'm gonna reach out to 25 of my warm prospects. I'm gonna invite all them to a sales call. I'll get five sales calls, and I'll get my first three clients. I said, why are you gonna burn all your leads, Sonia? She says, what? Like, what do you mean? I'm like, well, why don't you try it this way? So she Reached out and she asked everybody to market research call. She booked 20 market research calls. Eighteen of them transitioned to sales calls. Cause she stayed in integrity and did what we said, and 15 of them became clients. So she got 500% better results than she expected because we just added that extra little step. Right. And again, this is stuff that you don't have to learn because I've already figured it out. Right? So the market research formula really works. You could also do what's called a wcc, a Wine Conversations in cash. Like my mentor jay, he'll have 10 people over his house. They're very curated and very specific. And he will pitch the master wine for three hours and everybody gets dinner and it's really great. And then people buy and by the end of it, they're throwing him his credit card. Right? So that's his model, but he has the influence to get 10 people to change their plans and show up at his house at a specific time without too much hemming and hawing. Right? And that's $160,000 later. They did that mastermind for four years. It was awesome. That works for his personality type and where he's at in business. But there's different models and different strategies based on where you're at, right? Maybe you got to go more remedial. Maybe. Maybe you don't have 20 people you can reach out to. Maybe you got to start with, I'm going to create some content, I'm going to reach out to some people. I'm going to do some free masterminds. Just get confident. I'm going to offer some stuff just for free that I want to see if what my, my idea does gets people even show up. And if they show up, they're not going to pay, but they're going to either give me feedback or a testimonial or both. Right? Like wherever you're at or wherever you're comfortable, start. Right? That's the key. So maybe you could leapfrog to the next thing, right. If I start with my free mastermind, I get a little confidence, I get a little evidence, I get some testimonials. I'm cool, I'm feeling, feeling myself. Now do a beta for pay, right. And then parlay that into a ongoing mastermind, if that makes sense.

It's great stuff because like you said, I mean, you can, you could decide right now, okay, I'm going to do a mastermind and be. Get, you know, have taken calls in two weeks. If you do that.

Where.

If you decide right now, you're going to write a book and try to make money from it or of course try to make money. Forget that's not happening in two weeks.

Yeah.

And it's not at the same price point either.

Everything you build after that can now funnel into the mastermind. That becomes the road. All road leads to Rome. Right. All roads lead to Rome. That becomes the, the place everything ends up. Right. So if you write a book or build a course or do anything now you have your mastermind figured out and everything else you do is just generating leads for that.

Ultimately, I honestly think that's one of the biggest problems and I've had it in my past is like, well, I don't know what my main thing is. You know, you got the book out there and then you're kind of the doing this stuff. This, this solves a lot of.

A.

Lot of those questions for people, especially when you move right to the, you know, the high ticket. And by the way, if you do, even if you do, like, because I've done all these things in the past, one on one coaching or, or a done for you thing, you're, you're charging about the same amount of money as you would for a mastermind and you're on the hook and it's stressful where you're actually helping people get clarity like you're doing to our audience right now.

Here's the problem with those models. I love coaching. I've done it. I've had agencies. If you tell somebody I'm going to do it for you, you take a perfectly smart person, you handicap them, their IQ drops a hundred points and they expect you to hand it to them on a silver platter. Every agency owner alive will tell you they're hyped at the sales cycle. Then you get in the intake form, then you do the kickoff call and then they're dragging their feet and they lose momentum and it's just a nightmare running an agency because you, you handicap people. It doesn't happen in Mastermind because they're responsible for the results. Right.

And you're leaving them in a better position because they figured out how to do it.

That's it. And a lot of time it's not that you have to do it or do it with me, it's you need to find the right person in your organization that you can hire to get the result. That's what usually ends up happening. Right. You can only do so many things yourself in your business. Most people start a business, they don't realize they're gonna have Seven jobs to start, right. Until they get some other bodies.

In just doing a book, you're like, oh my God, I gotta, yeah, vet editors and I gotta find a cover and I gotta decide how to, you know, all that stuff.

So a lot of people go, a lot of people go the one on one coaching or consulting route, which is also great. And it's high ticket and it's awesome and you're selling and it's awesome. But here's the thing, you gotta market and sell the spots and then you gotta deliver. Right. Which is time consuming. You're only delivering to one person. You're not getting any leverage on delivery and you're repeating yourself and your stories and the breakthroughs and yada, yada, yada ad infinitum until your calendar's full. And then all of a sudden you turn around and all those people stop paying you and now you got to start over again. It's the income roller coaster.

There's also positive peer pressure. Like, yeah, if it's one on one coaching, I can just do nothing and blame you. My coach didn't work, right?

That's right.

If I'm in a group and everybody else is succeeding, it's like, well, wait a second, it might be me. He's good at what he does.

You just hit it on the head. You just hit it on the head. And if somebody's going to hire me to coach them, I'm going to charge them a hundred thousand dollars and if they're not going to pay me a hundred thousand dollars, I'm not going to coach them. But if they join my Mastermind, they're going to pay significantly less and they're probably going to get more of what I have to offer. Because more of what I have to offer is not just me and what I can say to you, it's what I can connect you to. Resources, opportunities, people, systems. I can plug you in to what you need, not just tell you what to do.

All throughout this interview where you, you've also learned and met from with the people that are participating in the masterminds with you, somebody else's mastermind. That piece is invaluable too.

Yeah. Now you start joining masterminds, you start running masterminds, all of a sudden you want for nothing. I am two phone calls away, One phone call away from anything I could want in the world. Like you want to get me in front of Richard Branson. It's an email at this point. I've spent time with Richard Branson in a Mastermind setting. You want to get in front of Jeff Bezos. I've emailed him three times. He's responded twice. His saying is, you know, you'll either hear from me in ten minutes or never. And I found it to be true. I've emailed them three times. I've gotten a response twice in 10 minutes. And I've gotten one Ghost, right? And it's like the. We're living in the most hyper connected world that's ever been, right? And if we're not taking advantage of that and building relationships, what the hell are we doing? Because the business tactics will always change. Marketing will always change, books will change, videos will change, YouTube algorithm will change. What will not change. Human beings, relationships, communities and masterminds are kind of a hybrid of all of that, right? They're like curated business connections that build over time and continue to get stronger. I'm doing a deal right now where I'm going to come in as to help and consult and build a team of fundraisers for. I'll tell the whole story because I think it's valuable, right? So I took NLP master practice training. 200 hours of NLP and hypnotherapy years ago. I think it was maybe 2016, 2017. I show up the first day on my motorcycle and somebody with, you know, big old, you know, sleeve tattoos on a Harley shows up and parks their bike next to mine. I say, hey, bro, nice bike. And she pulls her helmet off and has long flowing hair and says, thanks, bro. And that was Jen. Jen was awesome. Jen and I became best friends during this event. And Jen had a corporate career, had worked for Target, had worked for Home Depot, and was just incredible, a player in the corporate space. She's a little bit older than me, so she had a whole career already building out warehouses and doing big commercial real estate deals and like, helping find out where Target and Home Depot should go next to to be in. In business, right? Like, same thing as Costco. Like, you just know when a neighborhood's about to blow up when they start showing up, right? So that's Jen. And then I met Stacy. Her wife Stacy had been teaching real estate, specifically multifamily virtual real estate, meaning they own multifamily properties that they never, ever see or go to. I was like, that's really brilliant. Will you come to my mastermind and speak up on that? So I had them both come to my mastermind and give their spiel and they're like, this is really cool. This is what you do. What is this? Like they didn't get it. They didn't understand it. I'm like, yeah, 25 people in the room. And, you know, they all learned about real estate and I got a really cool bit of value and it's like I found something unique I could bring to my master. And you will, too. And Jen and Stacy caught the bug and they're like, I'm going to start Mastermind. Like, great. So they did. So they started a little Facebook group and they started generating leads and talking and people realized like, oh, these people really know what they're doing. And they started their Mastermind, and I sent them $150,000 worth of referrals to get them kicked off. And some of my friends joined and they went on and did these huge multifamily deals, 100 plus, you know, 200 plus units, and learned ins and outs of that and kind of found their niches and all that. And now, many years on, this has been maybe, I think they were running four or five years now. Now they're not doing 150 grand a year. They're not doing 150 grand a month. They're doing like 5,600k a month. So 5,6 million a year, maybe 7 million a year on the Mastermind on the front end. And they've accumulated thousands of doors in that time of property, Right? So they're not only building a business, they're training people, they're impacting people, and they're building wealth. Now they have a problem. And since we're friends, we've been friends for six, seven years, they came to me as one of the people that helped solve this problem, and we got to talking. It's like, hey, what are you really good at? Well, it turns out before I did any of this stuff, I was in real estate in New York City, and I was a hedge fund manager for a while, and I raised money for multiple deals. And I've had some deals that went really well, and I had some deals that didn't go so well. But over the time of my career, I've raised millions of dollars for businesses and charities and funds. And I understand how investors think, and I've done that, right? I've gotten really good returns in the market. I've gotten people some real wins, and people look to me for guidance. When and crypto popped off, what do I do, Brad? And when, what do I do with my 401k? And what do I do with life insurance? And I've gone down all these rabbit holes and I can help a Lot of people. So, like, I understand how investors think and what they're concerned about. And I've talked to thousands of them over the years and they went to me and they're like, hey, how do we raise money for our, for our thing? We've got that piece. Like, we really know how to find deals, we're good at that. And we really know how to manage and improve properties and make more money for our people. But we're missing the fundraising side. We just don't know enough fundraisers. Who can you introduce us to? And I'm like, well, how can we solve this problem in a bigger way? Let's mastermind on it. So Jen and I got in a couple calls and now we're kind of working out the details, but essentially we're going to start what we're going to call the Spartan 300. And it's going to be 100 teams of three. And one person's going to be in charge of acquisitions, one person's in charge of fundraising, and one person's in charge of asset management. And we're just going to do a bunch of deals. And if they could do two to three multi family deals each times, 100 people, or 100 teams rather, we're talking 300 deals maybe a year. And it's not an insane number of people or we need to start a million person movement, but we can make hundreds of millions, if not billions of dollars. This can continue to evolve. And there's no cap because there's $10 trillion of equity just in single family homes in the United States. And I gotta imagine it's much bigger when you add in commercial and multifamily and it's just this unlimited cap. And everyone needs somewhere to live. And it's AI resistant. Nobody's gonna have, you know, not need a place to live in five or 10 years, even if AI takes over all the businesses. So it's like, you know, there's, there's things that create money and there's things that create wealth. And relationships are a keystone to wealth because I could go out and try to figure all the shit out that they figured out for 25 years, 50 years together. Or I can plug right in with my skill set and help them. I can bring all the people I've met over all these years, hundreds and hundreds of people that already do this. I've tapped into 1% of the potential of my network and it's like completely free sailing. And we, we've mapped it out. It's like, it's it's an inevitability. We'll have it done in three to five years. It's like, there it is. And that's from masterminding, not from anything else. Right. If I had to throw everything else out and start over again, I'd keep masterminds.

Yeah, it's super powerful stuff. And I just, you know, to reiterate just some of the things that I'm taking away, it's like the, hey, this, this can one is. It's not about you necessarily being the expert teacher. It's not teaching a course live. It's you asking the right questions, helping people get clarity. It's something you can start right away. You don't have to build it out, you know, other than, you know, maybe an outline of what they're going to get and so forth in the offer.

Which can continue to evolve and change and it will. You're never going to know what, what the. Like you said, it's going to be until they start.

Yeah, I've changed my book four times.

I've changed my program where I teach people how to build masterminds multiple times. I'm still adding to it. You know, we're in BAM 2.0 now. We're eventually going to have BAM 3.0. It's like everything is iterative, gang. And if it isn't, it means you're not growing.

Yeah, that's good. In fact, you don't want to. That's a whole nother topic. Some of these gurus that you know have a book from eight years ago and they're still just talking about the one book and it's like, this stuff's not the same as when you did it, where you're updating your book, you're updating your program and you, and you, you learn what you need to update by actually doing it.

Right? That's right.

By teaching people about masterminds, you're getting how to update your program. So if they want to start, let's just end with this. We're going to put the link below for your eight minute Mastermind. Get the, get the book. Invest the six bucks.

And by the way, if you don't love it, I'll give you your six.

Or three times that on Amazon.

Yeah, don't go to Amazon. It's a pain in the ass. Just come to me, I will look after you and, and we will give you your money back if you're not satisfied. That's not the issue. I want to find the right people, not just anybody. So Buy the book, read the book. If you love the book, great, let's build a relationship. If not, that's cool, like we're good. Trust me, it's not. Low ticket stuff is only meant to help people make a decision whether or not they're going to go deeper with you. It's not meant to decide. And free stuff for that matter too. But like the people who pay for something, anything are 15 times more likely to buy something else. So I prefer to have my stuff be affordable and reasonable and paid.

Interview. But about the, you know, not everybody's right and getting to the right people.

I've had hundreds of thousands of people come through my business to work with hundreds. It's like there's, there's, there's a lot of people going to look at your free stuff. Millions of people maybe will look at your free stuff. If you have a long and blessed career like I have, I'm so fortunate to have impacted and touched so many lives and have my name recognized and all this cool stuff and work with my heroes. None of that matters. Like at the end of the day, I look at who, who have I actually impacted at a deep level. I'm not looking to go wide, I'm looking to go deep. Right. I want people like Chris who have 600 clients that have been blessed because he was, he was my client. Right? That's who I want and that's my style and that's what I care about. So what's the compelling vision for you that's going to get you to go create your mastermind? Start there. Like you can do that right now for free. Just go and journal on it for 30 minutes and be like, what could I create? And don't, don't put any constraints on it. It's just your vision. Who cares? Like, you know, you don't have to share with anybody. Can you make it compelling enough for you to take some action at least to the next step? You don't need to see the whole 10,000 mile journey here. You just have to see the first step.

Trying to think, well, what would I do in month 10? It's like, hey, get the first six down or three down and you're. It's probably going to change anyway based on.

That's right. There's another great book called the the 12 week year. Like you can't plan a year. You got to plan like maybe a quarter at a time. And it's got to be like one or two things. What am I going to do this quarter? That's going to move the needle that if I just did those one or two things would make everything else irrelevant or easier. Okay, great questions.

Awesome. So, Brad, thanks very much. Everybody grab the book. I've done it. Links below this video 8minutemastermind.com you can click below and.

We will.

Brad, thanks again. Awesome stuff. Everybody start thinking about your mastermind and we will see you on the next session.

Thank you everybody. Thank you, Ray. Cheers.