Make More Marbles Podcast with guest Dan Kalis - The Importance of Internet MARKETING

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Hey, everybody. Welcome to the podcast. My name is Brad Hart. This is Make More Marbles, and I am joined today by Dan Callis. If you are watching live, hashtag live, you're watching replay. Hashtag replay. Let us know where you're coming in from in the comments. Thank you so much for being here, Dan. How you doing today?

I'm awesome. Happy Friday to you, sir.

Absolutely. So, Dan Kalis. I apologize. He just told me how to say his name, and I totally messed it up because I was so nervous to talk to y'.

All.

Dan Kaelis runs fully fundable. They do BOLT loans for the sba, and I have a few friends that do SBA loans. Some of them have done billions and billions. This is a relatively new type of program that gets entrepreneurs funding without any kind of income verification nonsense. Like, It's. It's like a 7A loan, but a lot easier. I just went through the process myself. We got approved for 150,000. Uh, it's tied to the prevailing current interest rate. Uh, so it's a little higher than it used to be. But, you know, it's not idle money. You know, it's not like Eidl, but it's definitely worth looking at if you're looking for funding. I have so many people reaching out to me for solutions of how to get money without taking on a bunch of credit card debt or some crap like that. I'm like, okay, great. Well, this is good. I went through it. Um, the SBA approved us. We got our loan, I think start to finish in two or three weeks. Right, Dan? Um, so I was like, yeah, let's do a quick interview. Let's solve this problem. Answer this question for people. Again, this is not financial advice. You know, debt's not right for everybody. Leverage isn't right for everybody. You do have to pay this money back over 10 years. It's not like free money. So there are caveats, including, you have to make a personal guarantee, UCC filing, all that stuff. But we'll dive into all the nitty gritty particulars. Just the standard disclaimer. This may not be right for you. Don't take this as a recommendation or endorsement of anything. Do your own due diligence and consult your own financial advisors for making a decision that's right for you. So, without further ado, Dan Kalis, tell us who you are, tell us how you got to where you are, and we'll start with that. Yeah.

And by the way, I don't know if you meant to do this, but it Was kind of interesting that you said, it's not an idle loan. I know you. You were phonetically saying eidl, but I. I thought you meant Eidl. And I was thinking that's also true. You wouldn't want an idle loan. That you're just. You get the money, you're sitting on it, not doing anything with it. So you're. Your amazing brain. The marbles were moving around in your head and they just came up with that double entendre. So good job. You, Brad.

Hey, you know, words are a thing I like.

Absolutely. And I love metaphors and analogies, and we'll probably get into some of that kind of stuff.

I do words good, Dan. Don't worry.

Me too. Yeah. All right, so I am. I am a grammar snob. So nothing is coming up in print here. So we can say whatever we want. Yeah, man. I mean, I ultimately become kind of a. I don't even necessarily like this term, but I guess it's apropos. Is a serial entrepreneur. Very digital marketing heavy. But I started off back in early 2000s in the mortgage business. So I was. I was in finance and. Which is ironic because I never really did great and I never did good in math in school. I got my college degree in high school and I just kind of was like an entrepreneur in the making. And once I started getting into the real world and realized, hey, there's all this stuff to learn and master that actually will make me money and help me have a good lifestyle, suddenly it became interesting to learn these kind of things in finance. And got my Series 7 and was going to be a stockbroker. I went through that whole thing.

What?

What? Shout out to finra boiler room. Yeah, exactly. But I started that, like right before 9, 11, 2001. It's actually my birthday coming up soon, so if anyone would like to send gifts, I will give you my Amazon wish list. No, but so, so mortgage business that lasted till 2008. I think most people will know why that is the. The death date on that. Because the economic collapse and recession, it was a really interesting learning experience pivoted into kind of business and commercial alternative business, commercial finance, because I wanted to get into real estate flipping, house flipping. So I was like, I'm going to sell this business credit stuff that I've been learning to flip flippers so I could be in the business and did that for a few years, made some good money, Never end up really flipping houses because I was making decent money on the finance side. Then I decided to learn digital Marketing, which a lot of us did when we were maybe in sales or whatever. And we wanted to be able to generate our own leads. Kind of like the Frank Kern story. He was out selling credit card machines in the hot Georgia sun in the summertime with his wool sport coat on. And so learned that and built a digital marketing lead gen email marketing type business, ran it for four years, kind of lived the four hour workweek lifestyle. So contrary to what Gary Vee tries to say, it is real, it is possible, you have to do it right, and some good things come to an end. So that got me into that space. We kind of dissolved that, but then had done a lot of business lending, marketing, consulting, growth consulting. And that kind of brings me up to today where I previously wasn't really interested in doing SBA loans because like a lot of entrepreneurs and probably a lot of people that are watching this, I had preconceived notions, I had some notions that were actually warranted that the SBA was a real royal pain in the. I don't know what I can say on this live stream, but we'll just say pain in the butt, because a lot more documentation takes forever, you know, But. But what I found was that there are lenders out there. It's like the. The SBA is basically an insurance company in the role of this type of loan. You're not borrowing directly from them as you would with the Eidl loans. That would be one exception. And so the experience that any business owner has with an SBA loan or SBA lender is the same as like saying, well, there's a million agencies that run Facebook advertising for clients. Facebook is the platform. They give you the opportunity. They're neutral in that sense. And so your experience with running Facebook ads could vary widely. You know, you could have a terrible agency or a really good one, expensive one, or cheap. Same thing with lenders. There's different things they can add to the mix. So I found a few lenders that were willing to work with me and my clients, and together we partnered on what. What can we make happen? So that's kind of how I came to this point. And this new program, Bolt, came up recently. We can get into that. But I love being in the business because it gives me the opportunity to really help fuel growth, help companies optimize cash flow, look for partnership opportunities, and just meet really great people that maybe they don't need a loan. And like, in your case, you wanted it because you're like, hey, let's get this extra 150k. And I have mad skills. So I'm going to see if I can multiply that into 300k or 600k and, and leverage OPM. So that's where we are today.

Yeah, I think that's really important to underline here is like more money plus a bad business model does not equal success. That actually is going to drive you into the ground faster.

Right.

If you have a rocket ship and you aim it at the stars and you put more fuel behind it, well, it's probably going to help. If you take that same rocket ship and point it at the ground, it's probably going to accelerate the demise of said rocket ship. So I think that's the most important financial principle is like if you have something that's working and you put a dollar in and more than a dollar comes out. Well, if you're a roas, if you will, or return on ad spend is high, or if your return on investment is high, your roi, whatever your return metric is, and you're putting more dollars through the system with diminishing returns and other forces being accounted for, you should do that right? When you find something that's working, double down, triple down, 10x down. Because that's your mandate at that point is to grow it as fast as you can. Otherwise that will eventually, like you talked about the four hour workweek, all of those things can exist in a little vacuum when there's inefficiencies in the market that you can address. But as soon as you tell 10 of your friends and they tell 10 of their friends and they tell 10 of their Friends, all of a sudden there's endless competition for that same thing. And your four hour work week becomes a 40 hour workweek. Because I've had both too. And I realized like, you know, five, seven years ago it was really easy to have a coaching consulting business where it's like, yeah, I'll just run ads and you know, I'll do some coaching consulting, I'll show up five hours a week, maybe I'll do some sales calls. But generally speaking, I could fill my roster. Now there's umpteen million wannabe coaches who are all willing to lie about their credentials. I'm not saying all of them, but a lot of them are willing to lie about their credentials, competing with you and making the marketplace more and more different. And then you have mega competitors like, you know, super big companies that do have legit props and credentials that are out competing as well. Now it's like a whole different ball game. So you have to really find and guard those little niches. Anyway, that's kind of a side thought. I really love what you're saying about, you know, finding ways to serve entrepreneurs that are non traditional. Right. Everybody thinks that the mortgage industry is crooked and the lending industry is this and that and the other thing. But when you get into the game of entrepreneurship, you realize like money is a thing that you need to make things happen. And the perfect situation to be in is, you know, I created a business and it sell funds. That's the perfect scenario. But most businesses aren't that. Most businesses will at some stage or another require capital. And the SBA is a great place to get that capital that's leveraged, that you don't have to really worry about too much getting a raw deal because it's backed by the full faith and credit of the government, which is kind of nice.

Well, and I'm going to dive in a little bit of my own pov. My own point of view here. And this is, could vary but you know, I'm obviously not afraid of debt. I've been in the debt business in one way or shape or form, you know, for a while. But you know, like you said, if you can, if you have enough cash, I mean, let's face it, one of the number one reasons, if not the number one reason small businesses fail is they run out of working capital, they run out of cash. Cash. If you're going to use a metaphor of a body, of the anatomy of a human, the anatomy of a business is oxygen. If you don't have oxygen, that's all you think about is oxygen. You can't, you have no breathing room. And so same thing in business, the cash. And you build up a supply of it. It, the cash flow is kind of like the, like lifeblood. It's the blood flow that kind of goes. And then you do different things that are related to marketing and sales, which is like the heart to pump to create more of that. And my point of view is, and this might be controversial, you might agree with it, I don't know. But it's like, I think that if you have good things going in your business and you hit on that point, like again, don't put like there's emergencies and there's opportunities when it comes to bringing in capital, an emergency, you don't really get a distinguishable ROI on it. It's like the Gary Vee, what's the ROI of your mother? You can't really put a number on it. If you have to, you know, cover Payroll with a loan. Otherwise everybody's going to quit and you're going to be viewed as this, this a hole. Then there's a value to that. But assuming you have opportunities, I would say build as much cash as you can and only use cash for things that you can't leverage with debt. Right. And those would be things like this is gets into more operations, but it's like, you know, well, paying yourself. A lot of entrepreneurs grossly underpay themselves. Maybe it's on purpose for tax reasons, but it's like especially small business owners that are more local. I'm not talking about more entrepreneurial people like you and me, but like they're working their butts off 80 hours a week and they're either not paying themselves or they got like a little $30,000 salary. And it's like, man, why not be able to use the cash to pay yourself a six figure salary that you technically kind of deserve. And so, or putting towards investments or saving for an emergency or, or paying taxes, almost everything else. If it's going to be a growth initiative, marketing, sales, staffing, whatever, then it comes down to arbitrage. Right? That's a word that is like the big boy finance term in business. But I'm going to make an analogy because a lot of your folks that listen here, you're known as a very savvy marketing person. Digital marketing, direct response marketing. It's kind of my world too. If I was to say to you, Brad, arbitrarily, no context, what's a good cost per lead? What are you gonna say?

It depends, right? What do you, what, what, what, you know, what are we aiming at? If it's, you know, if it's accident attorneys, well, I could pay $500 for that lead and be really happy. Or if it's, you know, some ebook that, that I want to put out in the world, it's like a few.

Bucks, you know, there's no context. Right. If I just ask you that, if you were running an agency, go, what should I expect per lead? I don't know. I mean it could be $10,000 per lead. If you clo. If you close one out of four and that you make a million dollars, then you could do that.

That's a great deal.

Yeah. So it's arbitrary. It's, it's, it's arbitrage. Buy low, sell high. Low cost per lead, high lifetime value of a customer, even. Buy high, sell higher. I heard Robert Kiyosaki say that, well, interest rates, kind of the same thing. You can imagine. When I talk to people, one of the first questions they ask if they have never done a business loan or never raised private capital is what's the rate? But I don't fault them for saying that that's what you would expect to say. Sure. Okay, so the rate is in the case of SBA, 2 and 3/4% margin above prime rate, which is right now, I think five and a half. So single digit rates are unheard of like that. That's about as low as it's going to get. That's not what you would pay for a mortgage now, thank God. But. But even if you paid 15%, is that high? 30%. Merchant cash advances, really expensive loans that require very little documentation. High risk, last resort. For me, I do offer them, but it's the last resort. If you can multiply borrowed a dollar of borrowed capital. And I know this is what we talked about and this is what you're in the process of doing and you've already done this, but you can multiply a dollar to $3 in ROAS or any other way, or you hire somebody and you pay them 100 grand a year, you expect to get back what, 200,000 a year at least. So if you're getting back 300% and you're paying 30%, that's a 10x spread, a 10x leverage point between what you paid for the money that you didn't start with and what you're going to make back, like that's outstanding. There's a lot of room for error there. Now again, don't do it if you don't know that, if you don't have the skills to actually multiply money. But 30, it put 30% into perspective. I'm giving you an extreme example. The SBA loans are like 8, not, you know, 7, 8, 9, whatever case. That's like very low. So you got to think of it in terms of what can I really do with this? And I don't know if you want me to get into the granularity of the program itself or anything like that, but that's just kind of the mindset of like, what could I do with this money?

I think we've talked about the mindset, I think we've talked about the opportunities. I think want to just drill into the math here for a second. So like the cheapest money I've ever seen in America, you know, is zero percent. And that's usually with a, with a hook attached. It's like, hey, I'll give you a 0% credit card for X amount of months and then you gotta pay the interest. So they're trying to hook people in, get a bunch of debt and then. And they can't pay it off in time. And now they're paying 25% or some crazy thing, right? Some of my credit cards, like 22%, some of them are 13%. But that's generally like the range you're going to see on a credit card. So if you can manage that and leverage it and you can stay away from the meat grinder, that is compound debt versus compound interest growing. For you being on the other side of that, that's a good thing to do. When the SBA loans came out originally for ppp, well, that was all forgivable money. So like if you qualified for that and you didn't go get it, I mean that money in your hands I think is better than that money going towards the government and into wars and things you may not agree with.

Right?

So that was my kind of thought around that. I was like, yeah, they're going to give me PPP money and then forgive it. Like, why wouldn't I do that? And I could put that to work and give people jobs and help people. Okay, cool. And then it was like the Eidl loans. Eidl, right now you're talking money that's 30 year fixed at 3 and 3/4% where the inflation rate might be 8 or 9%. Right? Because it wasn't that. There was 2% inflation and then all of a sudden 9% inflation. It's been like 9 or 10% for years. They only just finally got around to saying that it was. And now the real inflation rate might be 10 or 15%. You know, you can always rely on the Fed and the government to slightly exaggerate their claims. So there's that, right? So I'm like, okay, well I'm going to take as much as that money as possible. I got into literal arguments with people like why would you take the money if you don't need it? It's like, I'll find a better way to put it to work.

Work.

Even if it's just going to masterminds and building relationships. I want to find a better way to put that to work. And by the time I pay it back, it's going to be worth half of what I paid for it. Let me say that again. If I borrow money at a fixed percentage rate of 3.75% a year and we're maybe at a 6 or 8% over the next 30 year, inflation rate. Well, that's essentially free money. I'm getting paid to take that money. And in 30 years, which is what happened in the last 30 years, the money's worth half of what it is now. Well, then I've paid that loan back and I've made a spread on that loan. And if I can make money on that money, not just have it, but make money on that money, I mean, that's an incredible opportunity. So I've essentially taken, let's say I took, I don't know, 400 and change in SBA loans. If I took that over how long it would take me to earn that money free and clear after taxes and accelerated it to today and put it to work now versus 10 years from now or whatever it ends up being, or six years from now. Well, where does that end up on the, on the frame? Right? It ends up being way in my favor to do that now. There is a certain break even point where you're like, all right, any loans above 12% or any loans above 10% or whatever the rate is, that's like, okay, that's not solid money anymore. And I don't feel good about getting that kind of return consistently. That's where you have to kind of look at it. But anytime you have an opportunity, like right now with tax liens, for example, well, we know there's mortgage moratoriums coming to an end. We know that there's a lot of people that aren't going to be able to stay in their houses. And if you don't have any moral compunction with foreclosing on somebody, somebody's house, now's a great time to get into tax liens because we're going to see all these foreclosures in the next six to 18 months that, you know, I mean, you either get paid 18% on your money, which you can borrow for a lot lower than that, or you get a house at, you know, $0.25 on the dollar that you can then flip or rent or whatever you do. So there's a lot of ways to think about this, but it's always a math equation. I always tell people, like, if you've got high interest debt, that's a guaranteed 100% likely return of whatever the interest rate is. So if you have a 22% interest credit card, that means you have 100% chance of earning 22% of your money just by paying it off. That's a good deal. Do that. Right. But if you're like borrowing at 3% and you have all these 12 and 15% opportunities in real estate that aren't a bad deal, that might be the way to go. Or even 8%, like you're making a spread on that money. So you just have to work the math for that situation. And you have to be. And then there's that emotional component, you have to be that person where it's like, can I handle being in debt at all? Some people can't do it. Some people need to have everything paid off to sleep at night. And I get that. So there's, there's different factors here, but you have to know yourself first and get the, like I said, the individual advice from your financial advisor of what's the way to go? And listen to a conservative person, listen to a more risk taking, aggressive, entrepreneurial person and find your balance.

Right.

Because there's different ways to think about this game, but the money's available. So that's what we're here to talk about.

Yeah, and that's the beauty of business ownership. You know, it's an active business. Obviously it's different than investing passively in real estate. If you're passive investing. Yeah. If you got a 10, 12, 15% return, that would be pretty outstanding. I mean, even hedge funds have a hard time getting to that level. And you can use leverage to get to that point. But where else could you go and say, I'm going to double my money, I'm going to double or triple. Like only business ownership offers that. But to your point, unless you know what you're going to do and you have the skills, you have the opportunities, you have the resources that you feel, I can take money and double it and I can preserve my own liquidity. Then again, yeah, whether it's 8% or 18%, it's all differential. And again, liquidity is very important. And it's like sitting on cash. Because it's true to a degree. They jokingly say, well, the banks only want to give you money when you don't need it, and when you really need it, you can't get it. So that's why emergencies do require a large, large amount of cash. Because if you have to wait to get approved for a loan to take care of it, it could be too late. So. And again. And back to your other point too, another way to phrase what you were saying was it's the time value of money. If you have the opportunity to basically get your hands on five years worth of whatever, three years, four years, five years worth of your profit at one time, then what you're Doing is you're collapsing time frames. You're like basically a time traveler in that sense, which is going to put a cool spin on it. But it's like you're able to access money way in advance for a very nominal price. And what you can do with that is, is up to you. So anyway, yeah, that's some really good framing on there. And yeah, like I said, if you want me get into little details of, of some of the different programs, I can do that.

It's not money you necessarily have to use. You can put it to work at your leisure. And having access to it now, like people ask me about HELOCs, that's the other thing they say, you know, like, okay, home equity line of credit, you don't have to use that money, just get approved for it. And if you get an opportunity later, you can use it. It's 100 bucks or 200 bucks a year to keep it open.

Access without obligation.

Access without obligation. So it's a little bit of a different structure. It's not what we're talking about today. But like there's ways to, that can be really valuable. Or you could take a loan against your portfolio, for example. Yeah, securities backed line of credit. So you could take out a HELOC and S block and then go and put a bunch of cash into a property and then serialize that investment three or four times. So like put the cash in, take the cash out. Put the cash in, take cash out. You don't need to necessarily qualify for traditional mortgage. In that case, you're putting a chunk of money in, say a million bucks and then you're taking out 800,000, putting in another property that's slightly cheaper and then another property is slightly cheaper. Then there's all the tax benefits of, you know, cost segregation studies, for example, can be used to, you know, double dip. Right? You get the tax savings, your active income, you get the investment, you get the cash flow from that property and all of a sudden you're leveraging four, five, six times in a row at the same chunk of cash that you didn't have access to before if you just wait to save it up. So there's all these opportunities that you can do if you really get savage about this. So again, we're kind of glossing over a very advanced strategy, but there's ways to use this that people kind of overlook.

You know, I was actually about to say very savage of you. So, yeah, I mean, and you know, and there are, you know, the SBA provides term loans and there's owner occupied commercial real estate, and I have access to business lines of credit as well. Sometimes we'll, we'll pair an SBA loan, either right before or right after with a line of credit that gives you that. So there's a breadth of different options. I mean, there's even things like if somebody comes in and they had a 401k or an IRA and they have a bunch of money in there and they want to either start a business or they want to fund an existing business. There's what's called self directed IRAs. I'm sure you know about this, but maybe not everybody does, where you take the money out of your Merrill lynch account that you can only invest in mutual funds or bonds or securities, and you basically roll it over and now you can invest in shares of your own company. So we have access to that type of service and, you know, all sorts of other things. You can build a cash reserve and a cash value life insurance policy and borrow against that infinite banking. So there's a number of different things, but I want to, yeah, we wanted to drill a little bit down in the, the, the SBA bolt loan because it is truly a unique thing. And believe me, because I've tried to go, I've called a lot of other SBA lenders recently to find, just to have my lender network more expanded. Just to give you a quick little example of something too, that might be of interest to some folks. I have a client that I'm trying to help out that sells CBD products. Now, CBD products are not, if they're hemp and they're less than 3% THC, they're not, they're federally legal. But. And per SBA guidelines, they're fine. They're not a restricted industry. But a lot of the banks and lenders, they don't understand the model. They're a little bit apprehensive. They won't touch it. Some will. So I'm looking, I'm trying to find a lender that will do that, and I think I did. So, so there's that. If anybody's interested in that, there's got to be some kind of things there. But they don't do the express loan like the one that you got, which is nobody is off. I can't find anybody. And first of all, you just start calling SBA lenders. It's actually hard to get a hold of somebody. It's still kind of one of these things.

They're very busy.

Whether they're really busy or they're so organized. It's like rule number one in business. Make it easy for your customers to buy from you. Right. Like, if nothing else, just make it easy.

Right.

So anyway, so with the SBA Bolt loan, it's up to 30% of top line revenue. So they do verify business revenue, but not personal income. So you're right about that. There's no personal tax returns like most SB loans have. They're not looking at a. Your commercial debt schedule, they're not looking at profits. Even if you, if, even if you reported like a loss in 21 or 20 in this case, because you need two years tax returns, not three. So it's way less documentation. Even if you reported a loss, doesn't matter. Up to 30% max, 150. So if you're doing 500k or more in top line revenue and 21, you can get the max. Otherwise it's whatever that number is. I think the minimum would be, minimum loan signs would be 50,000, so 150,000 in revenue. And the other documentation is just like no, no pnl, no balance sheet, you know, basic stuff, articles of incorporation, you know, stuff like that. Yeah, it was pretty smooth. I mean, you were very involved with that process and good. And it might even be faster because they've staffed up recently on this. But you know, the thing is, is even if you think that that's like a lot of paperwork to do or documentation, this is how I also frame this part of it. If your goal eventually is to sell your business to exit and sell, which, I mean, you're going to exit your business someday whether you do it on purpose, on your own terms or not. Right. So like everybody, it's like the death of your business is either going to coincide with your death or the death of your career or on purpose. So when that time happens, if you're selling to a very savvy acquirer, whether it's an individual or a private equity company, if they're very savvy, you better believe they're going to scrutinize your business even more than an SBA lender will. So if it's, if it's really difficult for an entrepreneur to get some basic docs over, then you do you have to question do you really have a viable business? Or it'll help reveal some holes. So to me it's kind of like it's a really good practice run as well to have your financials defensible, to have your, have everything organized. And then, you know, and again you went through kind of an abbreviated version, that was pretty smooth sailing. But it's like if you go through in the future the full one, there's more to it. So anyway, that's kind of how that works and it's pretty quick and you can use it for working capital and that sort of thing. So yeah, there's lots of different reasons people would use it two years in business and, and we have lots of other options as well. If somebody needs acquisition financing, I'm getting into doing a lot of that as well. You can go up to $5 million in SB loans at any given time. I don't know if you want to spend any time talking about some of the nuances of that, but suffice to say it's probably the only way to get debt based financing under $10 million with a 10% down payment. And there are some ways to even acquire businesses with 0% down payment if you're doing a roll up or an expansion of your loan of your own similar business, complimentary business. So there's some really neat nuances on that that you can do. And acquisition entrepreneurships become all the rage in the past year or two. It's like for good reason. So many small businesses are getting, you know, the owners are getting older, they're trying, they want to sell, they want to retire. 80% of small businesses are unsellable for many different reasons, which I'm sure you've talked about things like that probably before, just in the natural course of what you do. But the, the most, the biggest reason being it's too dependent on the owner. But those businesses are right for, for picking. So anybody who's an entrepreneur ought to consider doing that. I don't teach it, I don't train them, I provide the funding but, and some, and help with some due diligence. But that's a really great opportunity right now too. And we can do those as well. So. Yeah, I don't know what else you want to talk about, but yeah, so.

I think the main headline here is that the SBA has a lot of different programs. Uh, Dan has a lot of different programs outside the SBA that could get you capital if you need for specific reasons. Uh, this is not like, hey, we're gonna get you a bunch of credit cards and good luck. You know, that's cause that exists out there and that's usually what, when people are like, oh, we're gonna get you a bunch of lines of credit, that's what they really mean. So they're gonna get you a bunch of credit cards. And. And it's not always the best. Yeah, yeah. So, like, it's better to work with, you know, regulated government programs, and. And you'll probably avoid a lot of these areas, stuff like that. It doesn't mean you have to buy a property. It doesn't mean your asset, your. Your business has to own a lot of tangible assets. It doesn't mean that you have to, you know, put up a lot of, you know, a down payment, necessarily. There's so many different things to look at. If you're at the place where you want to grow your business and you have something that's working and you just want to put more fuel on the fire, then this is, I think, a conversation worth having. So I operated for many years under the assumption that my type of business would never be looked at twice by the sba. But guess what? Covid has changed all that. All these programs has changed all that. So now I think it's. It behooves any entrepreneur to understand what their options are, even if they don't pull the trigger, even if they just, you know, say, okay, now I understand it. Educate yourself on what tools are available, because you can guarantee your competitors are. And if you don't do it, then they'll probably do it, and that gives them an advantage. And all of a sudden, they're gaining market share faster as a result of collapsing time like we talked about. So if you want to reach out to Dan, I can make an introduction. Just reach out to me. I'm happy to do that. His company's called fully fundable and, you know, just full disclosure. Like, we have a business arrangement worked out where if you go through me, it's not going to cost you anymore, but you'll end up. I'll end up getting compensated for that. So I think I need to disclose that, and I think that's important just for full transparency. But I believe in this product. Right. Because I use it. So, you know, I actually. I talked to Dan early on about, oh, this is great. I think it'd be good for other people. And he's like, oh, yeah, let's do an interview. I'm like, cool, let's do it. After I'm completely finished, right? When I've gone through the entire cycle, when I understand it, when I can explain it and I feel comfortable with it, that feels good. Now, that doesn't mean that, like, I've paid off the loan and done all this stuff, like, I just literally got funded earlier this week. But I think it's just important in this world to, to maintain that transparency, that authenticity. So that's where we're at. I explained what it was in the beginning, but I'll explain it again. It's basically a. I think I'm at eight and a quarter or something like that. Wherever I got locked in, it does kind of fluctuate with the prime rate. So that could go down or it could go up. You can pay it off early, which is kind of cool. There's no prepayment penalty. And then you're. You're in for 10 years, right? So you can make monthly payments, the minimum, or you can do whatever you need to and hopefully make a huge amount of money with that money and pay it off sooner.

So just to do the quick math for everybody else too, is that at that 150,000 max on that particular loan, at around, around eight, eight and a quarter, whatever it is, it's about. It's about $1,800 a month payment. So just to give you some perspective, I think it's a pretty low amount to manage. And you can obviously use the loan proceeds to start making those payments so that you really don't go out of pocket and then, you know, like, so just multiply the capital. So, yeah, that's, that's a good plan. And I'd love to talk with any of anyone out there. And no obligation. It's just let's, let's geek out on like, what's possible, fuel and growth. And if, if anybody does a loan, then like we agreed, I. I give Brad a six pack of black V neck T shirts as compensation.

So I think you need a few yourself. Let's buy a lot of V neck T shirts. We'll never run out.

That'll be fun.

But yeah, again, guys, like, I want to bring you the best people I can find that help you with specific problems in your business. So Dan Kalis is one of those people, and I'm excited that, you know, he was able to help us out. And if he can help you out too, that's great. No pressure either way. But do reach out if that's of interest to you anyway, we can wrap it up here. Thank you everybody for your time. We kept it to a nice tight half hour and we'll go from here.

Thanks, Dan, Brad, thank you so much for having me. Looking forward to talking with everybody. Have a good weekend.

All right, take care now, everybody. Cheers.