Sales Hacks You Can Implement Today! - PODCAST with Brad Hart & Guest Kyle Rodgers

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To make more marbles. My name is Brad Hart, and today I have a very special guest, Mr. Kyle Rogers. I was just introduced to Kyle recently through some mutual friends, and I am grateful and excited to have him today because he's. He shares a lot of my values. You know, we've. We've known a lot of the same people. We've had a lot of the same experiences. And when you meet somebody who's like a fellow traveler in the world and shares what you care about, it's. It's really special. So, Kyle, welcome to the show. We're really excited to have you and tell us a little bit about yourself.

Oh, man. Thanks so much for having me here, Brad. I appreciate it. I'm super pumped to be here and give value. My main goal of being on here and talking to you on this interview is not just to give empty value or teasers. I'm going to give you guys something that you can implement and I'm a big fan of. Rather than taking notes, you take implementation steps, you take steps down, and you actually put them in your calendar while you're watching the interview so that you can make sure that you implement the things that you're learning about. So for those of you watching, I'm going to give you some stuff that you can actually take action on, and I'm pumped about it.

Love it. Love it. Okay, guys, get your notebooks out. Kyle's going to drop some bombs. Go for it, Kyle.

Yeah. So I've been in direct sales for over a decade now, and to start with, I was knocking on doors, you know, pounding the pavement. That's like the school of hard knocks when it comes to sales. You learn so much from being able to do that. You have to have thick skin. I've had guns pulled on me. I've had people open the door to where they're barely peeking out and they're looking at me as a threat. Especially in bigger cities, you know, people are very on edge and they have to be careful. So to be able to take somebody from that state and rapidly build a connection to where they're inviting you in, cooking you dinner and giving you $100 tip just for talking to them, that's a lot of skill. Building to be able to build relationships quick. I call them micro relationships. And I want to show you guys how to do that. Within messenger, walking down the street, being on at a networking event or a sales call, no matter where you're at, how can you rapidly build an emotional connection and be able to move people through your sales process and warm them up. And I'm also going to talk to you guys about how you can tap into networks and audiences, how you can leverage collaborations, interview swaps, and other people's audiences in order to explode your traffic. And also how to make it hands off by leveraging 100% commission based appointment setters.

All right, let's dive in. What do you got, Kyle?

All right, man. So the biggest thing is, let's start with Facebook. Let's start with Messenger. A lot of people, when they go into messenger and they try to network, let's say that they're part of a Facebook group and they're reaching out to people, trying to give value. That's kind of the ethos around that if you're going to network and messenger give value. So everybody's doing it. But now it's gotten to the point to where you're getting five or ten messages a day from individuals and they might all have a script or a PDF or some of them are trying to spam you. So you're getting all kinds of different people reaching out and you become numb to all of it. So even if you're giving value, these days, value is considered spam. So when you run into that in social media, which used to be a treasure trove of networking and clients, and now everybody looks at you as spam, and nobody has the time of day, what do you do? You become stuck or you figure out how to adapt. And the way that you adapt these days is to stop trying to do cold outreach and start doing warm outreach and hot outreach. And the way that you do that is building relationships. Brad knows something about relationships. So when you're tapping into audiences that have already been nurtured and there's already a reputation there, and you are being featured with the administrators of the groups, for example, or it's the podcast owner, or it's the person who runs the YouTube channel. If you're associated with the person that's built the relationships and have grown the audience and nurtured them over time, then you're borrowing that authority. It's like transferred authority. And you're able to tap into years of nurturing instantly. So you just have to build relationships with the people who facilitate these audiences and these networks. So the question is, how do you do that? How do you get these people completely open to promoting you? Some people, they're going to want to charge for it, they're going to want sponsorships. You got to be a part of their program or something. But you can get all, or you can get around all of that. If you lead with value, if you lead with giving first and you aren't expecting anything in return, you're just seeking to build goodwill, then you're going to have much better results. And if you're impact driven, people can sense that and they're going to be more willing to work with you and promote you. If you're coming from a place of giving and your heart is in the right place.

100%. Yeah. And I've noticed in my career, especially like I spoke about this, we just did back to back interviews where Kyle interviewed me and you could check that one out in the show notes. But the goal of any relationship should be to expand, to expand capabilities, to expand what's possible, to expand opportunities, to expand, expands networks, whatever it is, right? And anytime you choose to stand in the way of that, you're going to constrict, right? It's like you're either going to expand or you're going to constrict. It's like a, a law of the universe. So if you want to expand what's possible for you, you know, you got to get over this notion of like, what's in it for me all the time. That's where people's heads are usually at. And that's the default in populations, right? It's like everybody's tuned into a radio station called wiifm, what's in it for me? And they need to be tuned into the rel. Into the radio station of what can I do for others? How can I give, how can I add value to the situation? And that. That takes practice, right? You don't just show up and say, how can I help? Because that's work on their part. You show up and you pay attention, you listen, you do your research, you, you focus and you pay attention to like, okay, what could I actually insert here that would actually be valuable? And then you, you run it by them and if they're into it, you do it. Right? So I think what Kyle is speaking here is really important. It's like, pay attention to the hubs, not the spokes. The hubs lead to the spokes. But if you're paying attention to what they care about and what they need and what value you can add, like it can be really valuable. So another book and resource I recommend all the time that people can get hip to this is called Free Work by Charlie Hone. That's H O e H N. And Charlie is really fascinating in the sense that he got to work With Ramit Sethi, Seth Godin, Tucker Max, Tim Ferriss, who's director of special projects. When I met him, he got into scribe early on and was, you know, one of the partners there, I believe, and worked for them for a while. And he's gotten onto stages and just really punches above his weight class when it comes to his level of like public facing clout, if you will, versus his ability to get in the right rooms and add value to the right people. He had an article that was like the top of Google for years about how to cure anxiety. He wrote another book called Play it Away. But I really love Charlie's book about free work because it explains the concepts really succinctly. And how do you get into the right networks with the right people? By adding value, specifically and generously with a, with a limitation. Certainly you don't want to be abused, right? We talked about the miser martyr spectrum. You want to keep that in mind. But Charlie was incredible at that and I think anybody can learn from that, especially if they're just starting out. You know, it's like, how do you build a skill that people need and then go use it to, to get in the right doors and then it becomes a network effect.

So good.

If you get into one door, you can get into more doors, right?

Yes, 100%. Now I am in networking groups and even facilitate some networking groups where it's all about collaboration and doing interview swaps and working together. And I see a lot of members make the same mistake to where they go on and they're like, hey, this is my program, here's my affiliate payouts, here's what I do. Does anybody want to, does anybody want to interview me? And that's where they leave it. And then they don't get any interviews out of that networking group. So it's all about, instead try to take this approach to where you're building relationships with each person, each member in that group. Care about them, get to know about them, lead with curiosity. Interesting people are interested. So if you want to be interesting, be interested, be interested in what they do, be interested in their product and what they teach and their philosophy and then say, you know what, I have some clients and I have an audience that would really resonate with that. They really love what you teach. I want to get you in front of them and do an interview swap or collaboration of some sort. Would you be open to me promoting you to my network and to my audience? And when you lead with that, when you lead with giving, then it's so much easier to have an ask at the end of it. If you interview them, then it's so much easier for them to agree to interview you and promote you in front of their audience. But you have to offer giving first.

Yeah, 100%. Kyle, so you mentioned on the interview we did, I didn't dig into this thread specifically, but was it Grant Allerson who enrolled you in a CROs mastermind?

Yeah, it was. He, he's good, man. He was, he was lethal as a high ticket closer.

Yeah. So he's amazing. So like I, I, I love you guys who, who do this for a living, like Eli Wild, Cole Gordon, yourself, Grant. Like some of the people I've run into over the years, the Myron golden, like, you know, just amazing, amazing salespeople. And I would put you in, in league with some of those guys. Right. It's like, you know, the door knocking thing is one of the hardest things anybody will ever do, you know, especially when your literal physical life is on the line. Like we think it's hard to dial and get on zoom. Like that's not even close. Right. You were actually like knocking on doors that, you know you might get shot. So what do you think stands apart to you when you meet somebody who's great at closing? From a mindset perspective, from a belief spec perspective, from a standards perspective, from a strategy perspective, like, what are the pieces that you feel like everybody should work on to increase their, their closing game or enroll?

That's the question that really excites me. And I was actually having a discussion with one of my clients about this earlier because there's, there's certain things that people think about and they think, oh, this is so important. I have to have these things in order to, in order to make sales. So I asked him, okay, so instead of being overwhelmed by all of the ingredients that it takes to be great at sales and to have a high closing ratio, let's just focus on two of the most important. What do you think are two of the most important skills and elements when it comes to closing? And he said, well, one, trust, and then two is emotion. It's a pretty good answer. Trust and emotion. And I told him, I'm like, well, you know, you're right. You do have to have those things. But I would argue that there's two things that are even more important than those. Number one is attention. If you want to gain somebody's trust, first you must have their attention. You, if you want to get them to feel emotional about something, you must have their attention. Attention. Their attention is on your post, their attention is on your ad, their attention is on your messenger conversation. Their attention is on your zoom conversation. And they're listening and fully engaged and present in that communication. That is required before you can get them emotional or to get them to have trust. Next, let's dive into the aspect of closing Scarcity is above trust. Here's the thing, I can get somebody and all of you, everybody here has probably done it. You get somebody to buy that doesn't yet fully trust you. They're not fully warmed up or nurtured, but they buy anyways because of scarcity. Scarcity is more important than trust. I can have all the trust in the world. I can have somebody that is connected to me on a deep level, but never buy my thing because I did not use scarcity. Scarcity is more important than trust.

Yeah, I love that.

Yeah, Attention and scarcity. So if you guys start to use those and use outside sources if you don't want to be pushy, because I am not about the pushy sales at all. I'm about impact driven and really making a connection and the way that you can bring scarcity in without it coming from, you have it come from an outside source. Hey, you know, I've, I've got some clients that we, we've ran this fast action bonus on because the clients that we get the best results, they're the ones that take action and they implement right away. So because of that, the CEO is offering a fast action bonus. So if this is something you're able to do now, instead of four months, I'll be able to give you six months and we'll be able to, we'll be able to give you this, this and this as a bonus. But you got to act now. Is that something you're down for? Say, oh, well, you know, can you do it later? Because I really want to do it. So yeah, you know, I have to be in integrity because we have made this offer to others who did pull the trigger and it would be unfair to them if they got the deal and they had to pull the trigger. But you were able to do it a month down the road. You know, that wouldn't be very fair, would it? No, they say no. So that these are outside sources that your closers can use that make it to where they're not the one putting on the pressure. It's outside sources. But they're getting, they're rallying on their side to help make sure that they can get it.

Yeah, yeah, no, I love that. And what would you say to somebody who you know is in a, in a job like solar or they're knocking doors for alarm systems or whatever. Right, Garage doors. I don't know. They're doing something along those lines. They're just getting started. I don't know how many people actually listen to what I have to say or to our channel. But if you're out there like this is a hard thing, you know, what would you say to them to keep them going to get to that success where they want to go next?

Yeah. So the thing is, I remember when I was doing door to door and there was days where I would just feel down and in the dirt and there's times where I felt like I was working for free and I would get so frustrated. I'm like, I basically created my, myself a slave labor position here. I'm working for free all the time. So what I want to tell you guys is that doesn't go away. As a business owner, sometimes you make nothing, sometimes you lose massive amounts of money. So if you can condition yourself to not think of how much you make per hour now, it's going to serve you much better in the future because you're going to start making decisions that are part of the long game and not the short term strategy. Long game and higher leveraged actions is going to be able to get you past all of those times that you lost. Because the thing is, is that you might lose or I'm going to take that bet. You will 100% lose more often than you win. But when you win, you have to win big, win massively and you cannot get to those massive wins without those losses. So if you're in the grind and you're out there just hustling and putting in the work and you're wondering when you're going to see the return, the answer is keep going. Because you can't get to the yes until you get the nose out of the way.

That's right. Yeah. And you're building a skill set. You know, like I tell people with masterminds especially, I'm teaching them like, you know, how to set a big vision and how to beat it up and how to form a hypothesis and test it out and do the research and get and parlay the research into sales conversations and enroll your first people and nail it and scale it and like all these things. I'm giving them all the steps, I'm giving them all the formulas and all that works. But more importantly, I'm teaching them how to fish Right. I'm teaching them how to sock the pond and teaching them how to fish. And they could do that. Whether it's masterminds or they're selling a coaching program or they're selling anything that's not tangible. Like any non tangible high ticket product that you have to create a vision and, and sell. It's a skill that allows you to create something out of nothing forever. And anytime I want to launch a new program, it's the exact variable that I use. My first program I ever launched cost me $41,000 in six months and I sold five and three refunded. And I never want anybody to go through that painful mistake again. That was back in 2011. So I've learned a lot since then, launching hundreds of these projects to the point where I've made millions of dollars doing it. It's like there's, there's a, there's a way to do it and there's a wrong way to do it. And getting to the right answer requires you to rule out all the wrong answers. Not giving into fear or ego or doubt or anything except for data. You got to create action to create data to make better decisions and iterate to success. Period. Full stop. End of story. The faster you can do that, the faster you'll be in the game. And when you learn that skill set to, to, to my and Kyle's point, you could do anything. You are effectively free. You have broken out of the matrix, you've taken the red pill and now you can go on to whatever you want. And having that door knocking background, as Kyle can attest, has probably made him fearless in other ways that, that other people just can't even touch. And giving him a launch, yeah, that's.

The thing, is it? To have that thick skin and that perseverance and to be able to push past the failures and push past the nose and push past the rejection and also understand how to close somebody, how to get somebody to say yes, these are all very important things. But what's more important than that, as a business owner, for my business owners and CEOs, listening is to get yourself out of the sales process. Stop trying to be the appointment setter, stop trying to be the high ticket closer. There's certain tasks that are too low leverage for you and you have to at some point be able to get yourself out of that process and trust somebody to take that process over for you. Lead getters, relationship builders that go out and build those relationships for you so that you can go out and do more important work. That's what I'm all about and that's what I help people do.

And you should be in that seat at some point in your business because if you're not, you're probably not going to have a business. Somebody's got to get the train moving. Right. You got to get it going, get a little momentum. But at the point where you got it nailed and you got the offer nailed and you got the sales process nailed, begin to delegate, get it off your plate so you can rise up and do something more effective. Right. So like I, I told the story of Chris on the other interview, who came into our program, had a lot of success. He wasn't a business guy who's a cop before this and now I'm grooming him to take over the business because ultimately I want to be high level, I want to be thinking about relationships. I want to be thinking about what are the different verticals we can enter aside from just masterminds to help other people, you know, and to build our own wealth and to meet all our outcomes. Really that's, that's the most important thing. Have the biggest impact and legacy we can. And I can't do that if I'm on sales calls all day. Simple as that.

Yep. So absolutely. And there's so many things that you can leverage. That is just free marketing out there that is so powerful. But it does cost something. Your marketing is either going to cost money or it's going to cost time. So if you are using organic, sure, you're not spending money, but you're spending massive amounts of time. Unless you learn how to spend and non renewable. Yeah. And then you learn how to spend somebody else's time though you have other people building those relationships for you organically on these platforms. So we have Facebook groups, we have messenger, we have Instagram, we have LinkedIn, we have X. We have all these different platforms that are perfect for building relationships to where you can leverage appointment setters to use their own social media accounts to go do that for you.

Yeah. And what I love about that, and this kind of harkens back to you got to give credit where credit is due. Like the goat. Alex Hermosi put out a great book where he talks about there's four ways to grow your business. Master these and then hire these four types of people or partner with these four types of people to just do more of that. Right. Get it off your plate. Right. So essentially he's talking about one to one warm. Right. One to many warm, which is like a social media Kind of in your network kind of person. And you have one to one cold, which is cold outreach. You have one to many cold, which is like ads, right? And then you hire agencies and affiliates and partners and employees to do more of that. But there's essentially only four ways to grow your business. And once you master those four ways, or even one or two, you can go real big, real fast. Right? But I think that the biggest takeaway from that book for me was just like, what are the ways in which we're not utilizing one of these four methods? Or what are the ways in which we could level up in one of these four methods to grow our business? So we have multiple stools. Like a stool with one leg falls over a stool with two legs falls over. A stool with three legs gets pretty stable. A stool with four legs is very stable. So it's like getting to a place where you have that stability and saleability for your business is the other thing is, like, cool. You know how to sell. You made some money, you're in a business, or maybe you're just in a job that you made for yourself, which there's nothing wrong with that. At least you have some freedom and you have some autonomy. But the reality is, if you can't ever sell that business, you can't ever walk away from that business. You can't ever package it up and give it to somebody else that is going to take it to the next level. You're stuck. Right? So now the next level becomes, how do I become an owner, not an operator, and eventually become, you know, create an asset that I can sell. So I have a great client that just joined our program. Her name's Jane. Shout out to her. She's, you know, a little more private, so I won't give her last name. She said five exits in the SaaS space as well as courses.

That's incredible. Yeah, five.

Yeah, more than five exits. And she's done, like, info product businesses and all this beautiful stuff. And it's like, you know, the average info product besides like, Andrew Cruzy and a few people who have figured it out. Sterling Griffin's another one that have actually been able to sell their expert business, you know, where they've. They've had an exit. And none of those exits are like, something that's gonna, you know, put you on the Forbes chart. I'm just saying, like, they have exited. Like, there's a whole industry of people who are building a business around themselves and their brand and their personal whatever that they can't walk away From. So unless you want to be in this industry forever, which is fine, you know, that's nothing wrong with that. But, like, you don't have an option. You got to start thinking and getting smart about how you're going to do that. So, like, there's. There's different levels, right? So there's the level of, like, I'm a nine to fiver, I got a job, or I'm a W2, or I'm a 1099, and I want to shift to having a side hustle. I want to do something on the side. And then you get your side hustle going, maybe you find a little bit of traction. Now maybe I want to be a business owner. Okay, great. That's another level of graduation. Now I got to learn how to sell. Now I got to learn how to market. Now I got to learn how to manage a team. You know, if you get that far. Okay, now I want to specialize, right? I want to do something very specific right now. I want to be an owner. How do I do that? I want to be an investor. How do I do that? Like, what got you here will not get you there. So many investors crash and burn because they were just entrepreneurs trying to invest. They don't have the mindset and skill set to be investors. So, like, just understand where you're at in the journey. Zoom out and understand that, hey, there's more to learn here. And it's what got you here will not get you there. But that's actually an opportunity. It's a cool thing to continue to learn and grow and change. And you can send the elevator back down. Once you have learned those things, you can share them with others, which is what Kyle came here to do. And that's why this is the Make More Marbles podcast. We're not like the Hungry Hungry hippos trying to grab for all the marbles. We want to help make more for everybody. And part of that is sharing and educating based on our experience. Again, this is not investment or financial advice, just entertaining and informative stories. What is possible when you dedicate your life to this? So, Kyle, I just want to say thank you from the bottom of my heart and on behalf of everybody in our community for being here and for being a part of this community and for sharing your wisdom with us. How can people learn more about you? What's your call to action, and how can they connect?

Yeah, so I told you guys I'd give you something to implement, and the thing that I'm going to give you has helped Several of my students be able to reach six figures within a month or two. Now, results aren't typical. Not everybody is going to get that result. But if I've helped several people reach six figures within a couple months of using this method, do you think you could get one high ticket sale? The answer is yes. I'm going to give you exactly what you need to know where to go to generate leads for free, using organic and using networking. And then I'm going to give you the exact script that you need to actually get into conversations and get people to talk to you. So instead of running into that brick wall that is messenger, that is Facebook messenger, Instagram messenger, LinkedIn messenger, let's demolish that brick wall to where you're having so many conversations that you have to get way more picky with who you're reaching out to. It's called the Zero Resistance messenger script. And that's what I have for you guys. My website is scale sales teams.com scale sales teams.com. and that's where you'll find that that script. Let us know that Brad sent you and we got something special for you.

Love it. Thank you, Kyle. So go to scalesalesteams.com, say that five times fast, and check out your free download with zero resistance scripts for selling on messenger or any other platform. Essentially the virtual equivalent of door knocking. This guy knows it, he loves it, he lives it, and he can help you to shorten your learning curve drastically. But I would just want to, you know, encourage everybody who's listening out there, take action, go out and learn this stuff. There's only one way to do it, and I think your life will get better as a result because you know, you may not always hit the target as you're doing it, but you'll always learn and you'll always grow as a result. And that is the biggest reward in life, in my opinion. Keep growing, keep contributing.

Yes, absolutely. All right, thanks so much, Brad. Thank you, guys.

Thank you, Kyle. Appreciate you, brother.